Lujan Jaboticaba - 7b in Ground Test

[Sir Graftalot]

So I have this Plinia oblongata - Lujan Jaboticaba seedling (2-gallon size) that I'm thinking of planting in the ground in zone 7b based on cold tolerance noted by Trade Winds Fruit. Am I making a foolish gamble? GreenDreams is selling this plant for $95 hate to see it freeze to death when winter comes.

https://www.tradewindsfruit.com/plinia-oblongata-lujan-jaboticaba-seeds

https://www.greendreamsfl.com/online-store/Jaboticaba-Tree-Lujan-Plinia-sp-2G-p579803755

[K-Rimes]

Folks in 8a/8b lose almost all the growth from the season off of their Campo Ramons. I know of one in Seattle and one outside on Vancouver Island. Waiting for Spring updates from them.

I don't see the point for 7a / 7b outdoors with no protection. Maybe 50% of the years they'd survive, but that one brutal frost and they're donezo.

[Sir Graftalot]

Folks in 8a/8b lose almost all the growth from the season off of their Campo Ramons. I know of one in Seattle and one outside on Vancouver Island. Waiting for Spring updates from them.

I don't see the point for 7a / 7b outdoors with no protection. Maybe 50% of the years they'd survive, but that one brutal frost and they're donezo.

Of course I'll be giving it some sort of protection. As for method, maybe someone here can offer suggestions. I purchased this one with the intention of having a jabo in ground, in my zone (bragging rights and all that jazz). I really want to make it work. If it can survive 15F, per Trade Winds, it should be able to make it.

[K-Rimes]

I really don't believe the 15f. You will be losing some inches annually, and if it only grows a few inches each year, it'll slowly die back.

It seems you're committed to the cause, so just go for it and update us.

[Sir Graftalot]

I really don't believe the 15f. You will be losing some inches annually, and if it only grows a few inches each year, it'll slowly die back.

It seems you're committed to the cause, so just go for it and update us.

Will do on that. Planning on putting it in the ground early to give it time to get established before the onslaught of our winter.

[K-Rimes]

I have heard anecdotal success of plinia surviving sub freezing temps, even as low as 17f, but it was not for a very prolonged period (snap frost) and the trees were already large and mature.

My recommendation is they won't have the mass to survive a frost like yours till they're a solid 1" trunk or more.

Anyways, do update us.

[Jaboticaba45]

While some plinias can take a hard frost,
I wouldn't try it in 7b.
No way I could do that here.
You would have to protect it...
The problem is that trees can take those low temps once or twice and be fine with some damage, but the problem is prolonged cold temps.
Just further stresses the tree and doesn't work.
That's why I can't grow coconuts in my greenhouse.
But doesn't hurt to give a try.

[Sir Graftalot]

I can't find the video, but Virginia Fruit Grower did a video where he mentioned he had a pot of jabo seedlings out in his backyard survived temps in the teens for days. I believe he said he was away on vacation and neglected to shelter them but they made it through.

[Midwestfruitjungle]

I remember that video lol. You won’t find out if you don’t try! I wonder if you can artificially select for cold hardy seeds that survive the cold temps and maybe find a cold hardy mutant…

[Sir Graftalot]

Ah, found the video. Not exactly as I remembered it, but very impressive nonetheless.

https://youtu.be/9294175NrM4?feature=shared

[Sir Graftalot]

I remember that video lol. You won’t find out if you don’t try! I wonder if you can artificially select for cold hardy seeds that survive the cold temps and maybe find a cold hardy mutant…

Well, I'm not totally leaving things to chance. They say Lujan is one of the hardier varieties. I wish I have a hundred seeds to do an artificial selection, but I don't want to risk any more trees from my small collection. You know what? When the earth's magnetic field flips and the poles flop...you'll have nuts like me to thank for toughening the species. lol

[NissanVersa]

 Im in zone 8b/9a and I lost a 12 year old Sabara in 17f freeze. 6 inch diameter trunk, 9ft tall.  It was big and protected. Had some more frost hardy jabos I was able to protect better and move the pots but they also were bitten a bit.  Folks are right, one hard snap at these lows and jabos are donezo.

[Sir Graftalot]

Im in zone 8b/9a and I lost a 12 year old Sabara in 17f freeze. 6 inch diameter trunk, 9ft tall.  It was big and protected. Had some more frost hardy jabos I was able to protect better and move the pots but they also were bitten a bit.  Folks are right, one hard snap at these lows and jabos are donezo.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Would it be possible if I dig it up at the first sign of trouble?

[K-Rimes]

Im in zone 8b/9a and I lost a 12 year old Sabara in 17f freeze. 6 inch diameter trunk, 9ft tall.  It was big and protected. Had some more frost hardy jabos I was able to protect better and move the pots but they also were bitten a bit.  Folks are right, one hard snap at these lows and jabos are donezo.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Would it be possible if I dig it up at the first sign of trouble?

I don't get this. Just leave it in a pot and bring it in.

[Sir Graftalot]

Im in zone 8b/9a and I lost a 12 year old Sabara in 17f freeze. 6 inch diameter trunk, 9ft tall.  It was big and protected. Had some more frost hardy jabos I was able to protect better and move the pots but they also were bitten a bit.  Folks are right, one hard snap at these lows and jabos are donezo.

Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Would it be possible if I dig it up at the first sign of trouble?

I don't get this. Just leave it in a pot and bring it in.

Then it will be no different from my other plants. I'm trying to get this supposedly hardier variety to the next level of being in the ground.

[K-Rimes]

I will say that my Campo Ramon is ever so slightly hardier than my Sabara, but it is not revolutionary by any means. It still gets beat down in the winter. I consider it a zone push to have jabos outdoor all year in 9b. 8b and 8a, ok, you're really on the edge there but I salute you, 7b on the other hand is a death sentence. It may not be year 1, maybe not year 2, but eventually, it'll get got.

I've killed so many trees being optimistic and thinking I could beat the odds, but it was wasteful both financially and in killing a living thing. I think back to those days sadly, and how foolish I was.

As others point out, 1 visit to 17f for a few hours is one thing, but days on end, it'll die. Not to mention, a few warm weeks teasing some new growth out then a cold snap, that really does it to them.

[Sir Graftalot]

I will say that my Campo Ramon is ever so slightly hardier than my Sabara, but it is not revolutionary by any means. It still gets beat down in the winter. I consider it a zone push to have jabos outdoor all year in 9b. 8b and 8a, ok, you're really on the edge there but I salute you, 7b on the other hand is a death sentence. It may not be year 1, maybe not year 2, but eventually, it'll get got.

I've killed so many trees being optimistic and thinking I could beat the odds, but it was wasteful both financially and in killing a living thing. I think back to those days sadly, and how foolish I was.

As others point out, 1 visit to 17f for a few hours is one thing, but days on end, it'll die. Not to mention, a few warm weeks teasing some new growth out then a cold snap, that really does it to them.

Darn, I purchased this one based on the description that it could handle frost. Thanks for bringing some sanity to the discussion, K-Rimes.

Sorry to change the subject, anyone knows if it's possible to have Yangmei (Myrica rubra) in the ground at 7b? I hear it's quite hardy.

[Jaboticaba45]

For yangmei...
Now, not all can make it in 7b. I have selected a variety that does well with no leaf or branch dieback.
Other varieties will do branch dieback or even die.
They can take cold temps like i mentioned, but long periods of cold are not fun.
Will be a while before I can propagate it. And I'm sure there's other ones that will do just as good.
Just I don't know which ones.
I've only tried the common ones.


Jabowise, the nearest jabo to me that's in ground with no protection is around a 7 hour drive south.  :'(
Unless you count my big sabara in ground in the greenhouse

For the yangmei, it was exactly what you are trying to do in this situation. I didn't want to put them in my greenhouse so I trialed them outside.
Although yangmei has more cold tolerance with them getting snow sometimes.

[K-Rimes]

Yangmei seedlings, with trunks only a few millimetres wide, don't even blink in 27-30f here, even being 100% under snow. I would suggest that they'll be winners out there.

[shmojojojo]

Lujan might be my hardiest jabo. I have a couple 4yrs in 3 gallons that actually thrive outside during the
winter. Along with my Oberas, they are the earliest to put on new growth in mid to late winter, followed
by Sabara in late winter. Grimals, reds and phitranthas struggle through the cold and are just now budding.
I should note my winter lows are mostly in the low 40's with a couple upper 30 nights, so no freeze but still
promising results in the cold

[SDPirate]

Lujan and Campo Ramon looked the best out of my Plinias during winter.  Barely even dropped a couple leaves at most.

[Sir Graftalot]

Lujan and Campo Ramon looked the best out of my Plinias during winter.  Barely even dropped a couple leaves at most.

See! That's what I have read about the Lujan. I was hoping I could put it in the ground with some protection.

Thank you all for your insights on this topic. @Jaboticaba45, I have a DongKui Yangmei, do you suppose this one could make it out there?

[Jaboticaba45]

Lujan and Campo Ramon looked the best out of my Plinias during winter.  Barely even dropped a couple leaves at most.

See! That's what I have read about the Lujan. I was hoping I could put it in the ground with some protection.

Thank you all for your insights on this topic. @Jaboticaba45, I have a DongKui Yangmei, do you suppose this one could make it out there?

Mine died when it went below 15f.
Well it didn't die right away as I was saying, but that started its decline.
If you can keep temps above 20, you should be chilling!

[Sir Graftalot]

Lujan and Campo Ramon looked the best out of my Plinias during winter.  Barely even dropped a couple leaves at most.

See! That's what I have read about the Lujan. I was hoping I could put it in the ground with some protection.

Thank you all for your insights on this topic. @Jaboticaba45, I have a DongKui Yangmei, do you suppose this one could make it out there?

Mine died when it went below 15f.
Well it didn't die right away as I was saying, but that started its decline.
If you can keep temps above 20, you should be chilling!

Thanks for the info, Jaboticaba45. We have gone subzero many times before, just not in the past year or two. Not sure if the couple of sticks in ground with frost cloth and Christmas lights trick will be enough to raise temps above 20 during those hard freezes, but I'll look into it before risking my only Yangmei.

Most that mentioned how their jobos got fried were sabaras. I'm curious about the Lujan specifically. This one according to huertasurbanas fruits in temperate climate:

https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=51725.0