Author Topic: Pale Leaf Mystery  (Read 9379 times)

jcaldeira

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Pale Leaf Mystery
« on: February 16, 2014, 03:52:50 PM »
I need help diagnosing a problem I have with young fruit trees planted on one section of my farm.  On this area, maybe  40 meter square (1/2 acre), most of the trees have pale, yellow, leaves.  The same trees on other sections of the farm are fine.  Since it is not species-specific, my thinking is that the soil is either deficient in some nutrient, or has some toxin.

The soil is clay-loam, with a bedrock of old black volcanic lava underneath, maybe 1-2 meters below.  I can rule out salt, as my other trees near the sea are fine.  I've also fertilized same as my other trees:  Half-rotted manure top dressing and an NPK (13-13-21) sprinkled every few months.

I've sampled the soil in a few locations between the trees (so not tainted by fertilizer) and sent them to an Agriculture lab for testing.  It will take a few weeks to learn the results, but I doubt anyone in Fiji is capable of telling me which nutrient is the one causing the problem.

Here are some visuals.  I welcome your thoughts and speculation.  * Click to see full-screen images *

Overview of area:
   

Detail of Citrus, Abiu and Custard Apple (Sugar Apple in U.S. lingo):
   
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 04:16:29 PM by jcaldeira »
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FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 04:09:27 PM »
u can call me a conspiracy theorist, but it looks like a deficiency in Fe is conspiring to block the uptake of other nutrients to your trees.

try some chelated Kool-aid...or I mean Fe drenches...maybe that will help change your perspective.
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Luisport

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 04:10:55 PM »
My white sapote looks the same...  :(

Luisport

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 04:12:32 PM »
u can call me a conspiracy theorist, but it looks like a deficiency in Fe is conspiring to block the uptake of other nutrients to your trees.

try some chelated Kool-aid...or I mean Fe drenches...maybe that will help change your perspective.
I see... a iron piece in the grownd can help?

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 04:24:54 PM »
u can call me a conspiracy theorist, but it looks like a deficiency in Fe is conspiring to block the uptake of other nutrients to your trees.

try some chelated Kool-aid...or I mean Fe drenches...maybe that will help change your perspective.
I see... a iron piece in the grownd can help?

no it has to be chelated Fe.

just adding pieces of iron or raw Fe won't help.

also...the annona squamosa in the picture looks fine.
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Luisport

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 04:30:14 PM »
u can call me a conspiracy theorist, but it looks like a deficiency in Fe is conspiring to block the uptake of other nutrients to your trees.

try some chelated Kool-aid...or I mean Fe drenches...maybe that will help change your perspective.
I see... a iron piece in the grownd can help?

no it has to be chelated Fe.

just adding pieces of iron or raw Fe won't help.

also...the annona squamosa in the picture looks fine.
Ok, thank's! By the way it can be sprayed or it has to be granular?

FlyingFoxFruits

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 04:32:55 PM »
must drench the soil/roots...spraying won't really help!

the chelated Fe I've seen comes as powder or liquid, that you add to water, and drench plants with.

u can call me a conspiracy theorist, but it looks like a deficiency in Fe is conspiring to block the uptake of other nutrients to your trees.

try some chelated Kool-aid...or I mean Fe drenches...maybe that will help change your perspective.
I see... a iron piece in the grownd can help?

no it has to be chelated Fe.

just adding pieces of iron or raw Fe won't help.

also...the annona squamosa in the picture looks fine.
Ok, thank's! By the way it can be sprayed or it has to be granular?
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Luisport

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 04:34:34 PM »
Ok thank you so much! I learn a lot with you all!!!  :) :) :)

Mike T

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 04:56:07 PM »
Sure looks like Fe deficiency.Even chelated Fe should be added with other micros to avoid antagonisms.

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 05:01:52 PM »
for those who're trying to grow Hancornia speciosa from brazil...this might be of interest...it has some figures with images of different nutrient deficiencies.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-29452012000400033&script=sci_arttext

http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/rbf/v34n4/a33fig01.jpg
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jcaldeira

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 05:06:13 PM »
no it has to be chelated Fe.

just adding pieces of iron or raw Fe won't help.

also...the annona squamosa in the picture looks fine.
Thanks, ASaffron and Mike T, for your thoughts. I can buy Iron Chelate here in Fiji, a 25 kg bag is around $165 USD.   

However, most of the internet photos of iron deficiency show green leaf ribs and yellow between, whereas mine have more yellow on the ribs.

The Annona squamosa in the original post is has a lot more yellow in the leaves than those grown on other areas of my farm.  Hard to tell sometimes in photos, but here's a sick one and a healthy one side by side, both taken this morning and not color-altered:

 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 05:11:04 PM by jcaldeira »
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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 05:08:10 PM »
My immediate  thought was iron deficiency. But I was also wondering if it has something to do being planted almost right on the beach. Looked up publication on iron deficiency and it says there: "High soil salt levels adversely affect uptake of water and nutrients, including iron" 
Here is cheap solution. 1 lb should last for years. Ships worldwide. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-LB-Chelated-Iron-for-Use-as-Foliar-Spray-Aquaponics-Hydroponics-Gardening-/331129966709?pt=Fertilizer_Soil_Amendments&hash=item4d18e25075

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2014, 05:15:32 PM »
John,

yes I can see now, your sugar apple is not just shedding leaves...it looks affected by the deficiency.

I would definitely give them a chelated Fe drench, and a micro-nutritional spray (with all of the minors)...it might be some other element that's missing, or locked up.

if that doesn't help, I don't know what else to try.

good luck.
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jcaldeira

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2014, 05:16:48 PM »
My immediate  thought was iron deficiency. But I was also wondering if it has something to do being planted almost right on the beach. Looked up publication on iron deficiency and it says there: "High soil salt levels adversely affect uptake of water and nutrients, including iron" 
Here is cheap solution. 1 lb should last for years. Ships worldwide. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-LB-Chelated-Iron-for-Use-as-Foliar-Spray-Aquaponics-Hydroponics-Gardening-/331129966709?pt=Fertilizer_Soil_Amendments&hash=item4d18e25075
The seaside trees in other areas of the farm are fine, so I doubt it is a salt problem.  Also, the prevailing winds arrive over land except in tropical depressions, when we typically have a lot of rain.
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Mike T

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 05:23:00 PM »
John just google a citrus leaf chart of nutrient deficiencies and toxicities from excesses and match yours.Then go to the nutrient wheel with antogonisms to make sure you haven't oversupplied something already creating the deficiencies and also apply the companion nutrients.Easier still as Saff says apply a multi.

Felipe

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2014, 06:12:44 PM »
I also think there is lack of Fe, maybe also micronutrients. Very important: Check the ph! Maybe there are high levels of lime in this part of your orchad.

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2014, 07:54:33 PM »
Looks to me like a nitrogen deficiency. But could be nitrogen+iron+ other micronutrients being deficienct. It's not always just one nutrient missing that is the culprit. What was planted previously on that land? Are there any large trees close by adjoining? The reason i ask that is because i have an area of land that has similar symptoms. The cause is a row of hau (sea hibiscus) close by with long extensive roots that rob all the nutrients from planted trees, no matter how many nutrients i poor in. Other trees with extensive root systems: albizia, and eucalyptus, for example can cause similar effects.
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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2014, 08:02:12 PM »
Allelopathic neighbors can cause many problems as they act to 'do away' with the competition.

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2014, 08:06:38 PM »
Problem seems to be on old leaves.  Old leaf symptoms are caused by deficency in nitrogen, phosphorus, magnesium, and potasium.  Annona squamosa looks like magnesium because of yellowing of edges.  Citrus looks like nitrogen because of yellowing of the veins. Abiu looks like a combination of things, maybe magnesium and potasium from the browning, necrotic spots.
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jcaldeira

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 10:46:26 PM »
Looks to me like a nitrogen deficiency. But could be nitrogen+iron+ other micronutrients being deficienct. It's not always just one nutrient missing that is the culprit. What was planted previously on that land? Are there any large trees close by adjoining? The reason i ask that is because i have an area of land that has similar symptoms. The cause is a row of hau (sea hibiscus) close by with long extensive roots that rob all the nutrients from planted trees, no matter how many nutrients i poor in. Other trees with extensive root systems: albizia, and eucalyptus, for example can cause similar effects.
The land had tall grasses on it for approximately 7 years before I planted trees. Also a few small wild trees I cut out.  Before that, it had sugar cane (no idea how it did in that location).  The grass in the area looks normal.  There are no large trees in that area, and the closest ones are the same species as other places on the farm.

I've been using half-rotted cow manure to help improve it, thinking the manure probably contains a lot of micronutrients as well as nitrogen.  The grass has greened up from the manure, but I haven't yet noticed any improvement in the fruit trees.  I don't have access to any micronutrient cocktail fertilizers but I can probably get something specifically targeting the problem if it can be diagnosed.  My one neighbor never had this problem and had no idea what might be causing it.

My soil sample results will probably come back to me in a few weeks and I will share that here.  When I had my overall farm tested two years ago, the report came back with deficiencies as follows:
Phosphorus - low (1/5th recommended level)
Potassium - low (2/3rd recommended level)
Sodium - Low (1/4 recommended level)
Copper -low (1/2 recommended level)
Zinc - low (2/3 recommended level)
All else relatively normal.  pH 6.5, Elect. conduct. low, carbon, nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, manganese and iron were in the recommended range.  But, again, that the overall farm that is showing no signs of this problem.    Maybe is the phosphorus and/or potassium as cbss_daviefl suggests. This area may just be more extreme.  The other possibility is that the bedrock is somehow poisoning the soil in that area.
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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2014, 11:48:19 PM »
From your previous test i would focus on adding phosphorous as that is what is showing as severely deficient at 1/5 recommended level. But did you do soil tests of problem areas? You could also try giving the yellowed plants a good foliar feed as that usually gives faster and cheaper results.
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jcaldeira

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2014, 11:57:01 PM »
From your previous test i would focus on adding phosphorous as that is what is showing as severely deficient at 1/5 recommended level. But did you do soil tests of problem areas? You could also try giving the yellowed plants a good foliar feed as that usually gives faster and cheaper results.

The soil test from the problem area is in the lab now.  I expect results in a few weeks.  I'm sure it will show some deficiencies, but probably not specifically identify the one causing the pale leaf problem.

No foliar feed or pre-mixed micronutrient cocktails are available here.  I really need to do the diagnosis and treat accordingly, as my 'shotgun' approach with manure and NPK don't seem to be helping much.
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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2014, 12:01:55 AM »
From your previous test i would focus on adding phosphorous as that is what is showing as severely deficient at 1/5 recommended level. But did you do soil tests of problem areas? You could also try giving the yellowed plants a good foliar feed as that usually gives faster and cheaper results.

The soil test from the problem area is in the lab now.  I expect results in a few weeks.  I'm sure it will show some deficiencies, but probably not specifically identify the one causing the pale leaf problem.

No foliar feed or pre-mixed micronutrient cocktails are available here.  I really need to do the diagnosis and treat accordingly, as my 'shotgun' approach with manure and NPK don't seem to be helping much.

Suggest making manure tea. Just let some soak in water for a couple of days, strain, and spray directly on foliage.
Oscar

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 12:09:58 AM »
There are different kinds of chelated iron, the one you need depends of the ph of the soil. You can order it from internet if you really want to have it

EDTA: can be used untill ph 6
DTPA:can be used untill ph 7

EDDHA: can be used untill ph 10 

EDDHSA:can be used untill ph 10

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Re: Pale Leaf Mystery
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 04:52:35 AM »
I also think there is lack of Fe, maybe also micronutrients. Very important: Check the ph! Maybe there are high levels of lime in this part of your orchad.
Hello Felipe! How can i correct ph in a lime region? Thank's! :)