Author Topic: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree  (Read 7854 times)

Mr. Clean

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Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« on: May 17, 2017, 12:08:16 AM »
Valencia Pride ... the new condo mango...   ;)


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bsbullie

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 12:14:12 AM »
Bookmark this and lets see it in 5 years...  lol
- Rob

AlwaysHotinFL

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 06:37:25 AM »
Haha, supervigorous.

I wonder, if you forced it to grow in a large pot instead of in ground, would becoming root bound keep it small?

Or just lead to disease and failure
-Casey

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 05:48:45 PM »
Haha, supervigorous.

I wonder, if you forced it to grow in a large pot instead of in ground, would becoming root bound keep it small?

Or just lead to disease and failure

Planted it four years ago as a 3 gal.  Root bound trees decline over time, things like dropping all of the fruit they set, etc.
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SWRancher

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 07:21:46 PM »
I have two healthy mature Valencia Pride trees planted in my yard. One of the VP trees grows much slower and lower then the other more vigorous one does.  Oddly when one tree has a great fruiting year the other tree seems to fruit lightly. I'm guessing the size and growth difference is mainly based upon different rootstocks, the soil and location where each tree is planted. Cant explain why my VP trees alternate their heavy fruit years but it is convenient.       

Guanabanus

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 09:17:57 PM »
Interesting:  I have been telling people that VP is unlikely to fruit when you try to keep it small.
Har

TonyinCC

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 11:37:05 PM »
Pruning a naturally vigorous tree to an open center like that helps keep it much smaller and stimulates fruiting. I have also heard it described as pruning to a basket shape or vase. Trees like mangos and peaches can be kept much shorter with several competing leaders, it minimizes apical dominance. The Japanese have been masters of the art of pruning for centuries, if they can bonsai a redwood, I am reasonably sure that I can keep a VP productive between 15-20 feet indefinitely.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apical_dominance

 My Dad's Valencia pride was out of control only a few years after planting, it was over 20 feet and growing fast. I topped the central leader(tallest main stem) and any other side branches at 10 feet in mid October 2015. All pruning cuts were made above outward or downward facing buds when possible.  It only produced about 30 or so mangos before pruning. In 2016,The year after I topped it, it produced more than double the previous crop. It regrew to about 15 feet by the end of Summer 2016. Vigor was visibly reduced the first year after pruning.
  After it cropped last year, I took out the central leader completely at its base, so the lower side branches are the new leaders. It is important to keep the new leaders competing so one doesn't regain apical dominance. It was at about 12 feet after pruning. This year it has set from 3 different blooms. The tree now puts more energy into fruiting. I have not pruned since after the crop was done last year and it has only gotten about 3 feet taller. That shows that vigor has been further reduced by removing the central leader.(the apex of the tree)  The basic idea when making pruning cuts is to make cuts above a bud that is facing in the direction you want the new branch to grow.(usually not vertically unless you need to replace part of the inner canopy.) This makes the tree spread out rather than up. Every year the inner canopy branches will need to be topped and rotationally replaced every few years, but I bet I will be able to keep my Dad's tree indefinitely at a height such that all fruit are harvestable with a picking pole.... The tallest branches in late Summer might eventually reach 17-20 feet in a few more years, but the fruit should hang no higher than 15 feet. After the crop is done this year, I will prune it to about 12 feet. It looks like the vigor is reduced to the point where I will just need to do maintenance pruning back to about 12-15 or so feet yearly to keep its yearly maximum height in the high teens. I feel keeping a very vigorous tree semi-dwarfed is a reasonable compromise.  If I had not pruned my Dad's tree I am sure it would be well over 30 feet by now. Pic is tree in 2016 before I took out the main central leader.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 06:21:45 AM by TonyinCC »

Guanabanus

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 08:43:00 AM »
The top central bud of each upward-pointing branch, especially if it is in good sunlight, expresses its own apical dominance over buds below it on the same branch.

Tipping these after harvest controls size.   'Valencia Pride' is capable of having MANY massive, dominant leaders.
Har

puglvr1

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 11:37:28 AM »

2 great looking Valencia pride trees, nice size too  8)

AlwaysHotinFL

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 12:47:40 PM »
Great info about keeping the VP tree manageable.

Obviously Valencia pride is a very vigorous grower, but that got me thinking is there a Tallest mango variety? I'd love to see some pics (as I have before in the forum) of some massive trees.

Follow up question: maybe a Tallest and very productive?
-Casey

zands

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 01:15:31 PM »
Yes,  great and valuable info and some pruning schemes to try out on VP and other mango trees known as "vigorous upright growers".   ||||   Thanks TonyinCC and Guanabanus

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 09:52:53 PM »
Great info about keeping the VP tree manageable.

Obviously Valencia pride is a very vigorous grower, but that got me thinking is there a Tallest mango variety? I'd love to see some pics (as I have before in the forum) of some massive trees.

Follow up question: maybe a Tallest and very productive?

Anything over 30 feet becomes squirrel food. The modern trend is dwarf trees.

This mango tree is supposed to cover a football field:
https://youtu.be/7sSUPAZ_bCE
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AlwaysHotinFL

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2017, 07:00:37 AM »
Great info about keeping the VP tree manageable.

Obviously Valencia pride is a very vigorous grower, but that got me thinking is there a Tallest mango variety? I'd love to see some pics (as I have before in the forum) of some massive trees.

Follow up question: maybe a Tallest and very productive?

Anything over 30 feet becomes squirrel food. The modern trend is dwarf trees.

This mango tree is supposed to cover a football field:
https://youtu.be/7sSUPAZ_bCE

That thing has crazy sprawl! Amazing. Must have trained it not to have a central leader  ;D
-Casey

Mark in Texas

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 08:42:39 AM »
Pruning a naturally vigorous tree to an open center like that helps keep it much smaller and stimulates fruiting. I have also heard it described as pruning to a basket shape or vase. Trees like mangos and peaches can be kept much shorter with several competing leaders, it minimizes apical dominance.

One of my 9 year old peach trees trained with 4-5 main scaffold branches 18-24" above ground and parallel to it, open center, 25' across.  If i had to do it all over again I'd train into a single plane like a piece of paper rather than an open wide vase.

As an aside, this is what happens when you have a warm winter and the tree comes up hundreds of hours short on chill hrs.  It's April in this photo and still dormant.  There will be no fruit on this tree this year.




I consider myself a master when it comes to understanding and tricking a tree's apical dominance thingie but sometimes mother nature doesn't want to cooperate.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 08:46:14 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 08:44:00 AM »
Valencia Pride ... the new condo mango...   ;)



Beautiful tree!

Mr. Clean

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 10:50:35 AM »
Pruning a naturally vigorous tree to an open center like that helps keep it much smaller and stimulates fruiting. I have also heard it described as pruning to a basket shape or vase. Trees like mangos and peaches can be kept much shorter with several competing leaders, it minimizes apical dominance.

One of my 9 year old peach trees trained with 4-5 main scaffold branches 18-24" above ground and parallel to it, open center, 25' across.  If i had to do it all over again I'd train into a single plane like a piece of paper rather than an open wide vase.

As an aside, this is what happens when you have a warm winter and the tree comes up hundreds of hours short on chill hrs.  It's April in this photo and still dormant.  There will be no fruit on this tree this year.




I consider myself a master when it comes to understanding and tricking a tree's apical dominance thingie but sometimes mother nature doesn't want to cooperate.

My sympathies on not enough for peaches.  I would think you could begin to prune major limbs to make the flat "piece of paper" structure over several years; it would make harvesting fruit easier.
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TheFlyingFarmer

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2020, 07:25:47 AM »
Valencia Pride ... the new condo mango...   ;)



sorry for the necro-bump, any update OP?

i have some rootstock that im purposefully leaving in a small root-pruning container to see if i can graft a VP onto it. just a little experiment on my free time, im fully expecting it to fail, but hopeful that by some snowballs chance in hell, itll work.  either way ill proceed with my experiment once the rootstock is the correct thickness. ill be starting a thread in the next few months to document it in case anyone wants some entertainment or is as crazy as me and wants to try it for themselves.

TonyinCC

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2020, 08:08:18 AM »
My Dad's tree is only at about 20 feet in height despite not being pruned the past 2 years, the tree really calmed down after the initial two years of pruning it back
 heavily. The trunk and main branches have gotten much thicker and the tree has widened but still pick-able height with a pole. I think this year I need to get out there with a chainsaw and ladder and take about 5-6 feet off of it. Will update with before and after this year's pruning with pics once I have a few free hours to get out there and work on the tree. If I had not done my initial heavy pruning and reshaping I am sure the tree would be nearing 40 feet by now.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 08:10:19 AM by TonyinCC »

TheFlyingFarmer

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2020, 09:07:59 AM »
what was the fruit yield this year?

Guanabanus

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2020, 10:19:00 AM »
There is a dwarfed 'Valencia Pride' at Truly Tropical, apparently entirely due to a chance root-stock.  The tree looks similar to the original post in this thread.
Har

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2020, 11:03:27 PM »

This mango tree is supposed to cover a football field:
https://youtu.be/7sSUPAZ_bCE

I heard it only gets that big on a full moon then retracts to normal size

TonyinCC

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2020, 10:10:33 AM »
My Dad's tree 5 years after initial pruning. Pic taken September 2020 before this year's pruning.


TonyinCC

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2020, 10:12:55 AM »
My Dad's tree after 2020 pruning done yesterday. Notice the tree is much wider than its height. The tallest branches left are on the outer canopy and will be bent downwards with next year's fruit. This should further limit upward growth. Eventually the tree might be 50 feet wide and 20 feet high if not hurricane pruned. A tree like that could shade a wide area and all fruit will still be pick-able with a pole.



« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 10:23:52 AM by TonyinCC »

Brev Grower

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2020, 01:35:16 PM »
I think that any typically vigorous mango can be dwarfed by an off-type rootstock. I have an Edward (maybe 7 years in ground) that is no taller than 7 feet and gives about 10-12 mangoes each year. Nice little dwarf, except the space was for a big tree...

Oolie

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Re: Valencia Pride - Dwarf Tree
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2020, 06:45:48 PM »
My Dad's tree after 2020 pruning done yesterday. Notice the tree is much wider than its height. The tallest branches left are on the outer canopy and will be bent downwards with next year's fruit. This should further limit upward growth. Eventually the tree might be 50 feet wide and 20 feet high if not hurricane pruned. A tree like that could shade a wide area and all fruit will still be pick-able with a pole.




Excellent suggestions. I may do the same with my white sapote, but I'm going to put 'Chestnut' on top since it grows more droopy than a Holiday avocado.

 

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