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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 07:30:57 PM

Title: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 07:30:57 PM
I get lots of questions regarding how best to plant a Mango tree here in SoCal so I decided to start this thread. I should first qualify, or disqualify, myself as I am a relatively new mango grower and my trees are not the largest nor healthiest. I'm a typical lazy backyard gardener, often putting my daughters before my plants so my trees rarely get fertilizer these days and it's probably been over a year since I adjusted the pH of the rootzone with phosphoric acid and Sulfur.

A serious gardener will send out soil samples for analysis and this thread is not for the serious mango grower. This thread will be very general without any advanced techniques or equipment. This is the "Keep It Simple Stupid" technique using easy to find rootstock and some experience I've gained from mentors like Leo Manuel, Jim Neitzel and many others.

I've been killing mango trees for years so listen to my advice with a grain of salt but I am quite knowledgeable about the science of growing mango trees. First of all, when someone tells you what or how to do something, there should be a reason why. If that person is not giving an explanation why they do it that way or has some proof that the technique works, you may want to look elsewhere for advice.

I'll have to continue this subject in short segments as my kids keep me extremely busy.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 08:08:00 PM
Edited to include link
Florida rootstock trees don’t perform well for most gardeners
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0)

So, why not just plant a mango tree that you buy from the local nursery like you would any other fruit tree? There are several reasons. Firstly, Mangos are marginal here in SoCal and although they can withstand the cold in some counties of Southern California, they cannot easily grow unprotected in many other counties of SoCal. Mango growth is heavily influenced by climate and wether new growth is vegetative(leaves and shoots) or floral is primarily dependent on temperature. This holds true for Mangos in SoCal but not necessarily in warmer climates where age of previous flushes can also be of major significance. Aside from age of flushes and temperature, nutrition can aid in flowering promoting bigger or more flowers and can even help inhibit fruit drop.

Please see this article for in depth information on Mango flowering:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 08:58:44 PM
The three major problems growing Mango trees here is the cold weather, diseases and high pH soils. For areas where Mango can grow unprotected outdoors, we have the issue of continual flowering caused by the cold weather. A new Mango grower is often attracted to the beautiful small potted mango trees in full bloom often holding some small fruit. What typically happens is the happy customer purchases this tree and tries to allow the small tree to mature the fruit. If the tree is large enough, the grower may actually be able to harvest a few fruit. The fruit quality is often mediocre at best and the tree becomes stunted from the efforts. The following year, the tree often grows very little and will often try to bloom again as cold weather approaches.

Because the tree was stressed holding fruit the first year, there is very little root and shoot growth the following year and the grower may actually experience what I like to call the "Magical Shrinking Tree" where instead of growing, the tree actually recedes with each passing year. In Warmer climates, a tree may simply veg out the following year in order to recover but in marginal climates, the cold weather is too strong a stimulus and the tree will flower again in the second, third, and following years. Flowering here in SoCal can take up to half a year or more.

Flowering can begin as early as October(sometimes earlier) and nightly low temperatures can still induce blooms as late as June and July as it did with some of my trees last year. I posted pictures somewhere but I forgot which thread. Foryounger trees, this often means we only get one long flowering cycle and only one vegetative flush, Ive experienced 0 growth flushes in a year for several trees, instead, it flowered again after a rest period.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on March 17, 2017, 10:18:50 PM
I am book marking this tread!
Thanks a lot Simon...and happy to see you active again in this forum!  ;D
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on March 17, 2017, 10:43:40 PM
This is a worthy thread for anyone to bookmark especially SoCal mango growers. Thank you for the thread Simon!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: rliou on March 18, 2017, 12:26:00 AM
Thanks simon for the great thread.  One thing to consider in southern california for mangos are rootstocks.  Some varieties grow ok on terpentine (VP, LZ and alphonso) but for other varieties it can yeild slow growth.  JF and simon have been experimenting with rootstocks.  We do notice that while on manilla the growth seems to be faster.  I am conducting an experiment on two julie trees.  One is on double rootstock (terpentine plus manilla) the other just turpentine.  I am puttingnthem at dame location next to each other to see if growth rate is indeed difference.  It is also conceivable that some of the faster growth could be related to actually having a tap root on manilla trees. Florida turpentine trees tend to not have tap roots
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 12:59:10 PM
Thanks guys, it's good to be back. I will talk about rootstocks briefly but because Lavern Manilla is widely available here and it has been successful for so many of us here, I will simply recommend this rootstock as the number one choice for growers here. Rootstocks will be mentioned as part of the discussions on Temperature, diseases and pH.

The rliou, the more people experimenting and documenting, the better. I have a lot of new insight that I'll share in this thread that will hopefully allow us to grow more and better quality mangos here in SoCal.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 01:51:08 PM
Because weather has such a big influence on the growth of Mango trees here, we need to stop our current practice of picking out that little mango tree in full bloom or holding small fruit. I highly recommend using Lavern Manilla seedlings available at most Home Depot's and other garden centers as the number one choice when it comes to rootstocks for growing mango in SoCal. If you're trying to save money or plan on doing a lot of your own grafting, you will need a lot more starting material and I recommend planting lots of polyembryonic and Monoembryonic seeds from store bought mangos that you eat.

With Manilla or random seedlings as rootstock, plant the seed or seedlings in its permanent location in the warmest area of your yard. It is a good idea to plant in native soil that is loosened to a depth of at least 12-18 inches if possible. Deeper is better to some extent but in many yards across California, you will hit an extremely hard layer of rocks and clay just several inches below the topsoil.

It is extremely important that you do not over amend the planting hole with too much organic material as this will decompose over time and your tree will sink. Even when planting in 100% native soil that is loosened, I recommend planting the tree above grade. Because the soil was loosened, it will compact and the tree will drop over the years. This issue can be exacerbated by over amending with organics. If you backfilled the hole with 30% organic matter, plan on the tree dropping 30% plus additional drop from loosening native soil.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 02:41:49 PM
The planting hole should be square and not round. Amendments can be added on top of the soil and I highly recommend mulching the rhizosphere or drip zone. Im not going into detail in regards to planting, fertilizing or mulching, each of these subjects can take up a whole thread and many of these have in fact been discussed in previous threads so if you're looking for more information, try the search function above. I will provide links to threads of great significance where needed and I will include links to scholarly articles and research where pertinent.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 19, 2017, 01:17:07 PM
When you plant your tree, it is very important to know the pH of your soil. You can send samples out for analysis but this may be too much trouble for the new mango grower. Instead, I recommend purchasing a simple pH test kit for soils or asking your local nursery if they can test or recommend a test kit to find out the pH of your soil. I've tested the pH of the soil and water at several locations all around San Diego and the majority of samples for soil and water were above 7.8.

Mangos grow well in the pH range of about 5.5-7.5. Outside of this range, it becomes difficult for the plant to uptake certain nutrients. Here in SoCal, we mostly have to worry about the pH of our soils being too high. Even if we brought down the pH of our soils with the use of Sulfur, Phosphoric acid/water drenches, the pH will generally drift back up and out of the acceptable range due in large part to a the buffering capacity of the soil itself and the pH raising affects of our local tapwater.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 20, 2017, 09:53:55 PM
Once you have your tree planted, keep it watered but don't over do it. When a tree is first planted, it will need more frequent watering as the roots have not established yet but keep in mind that Mangos are regarded as drought tolerant and when the rootzone is kept constantly moist, there is little physiological need for the plant to send its roots out farther in search of more resources. I would hazard to guess that more rookie Mango growers have killed their mango trees from over watering rather than under watering. Over watering can decrease oxygen levels, promoting anaerobic conditions which can lead to root rot.

I want to re emphasize here that you should be planting seedlings that are not grafted. This means that you will either need to learn to graft or know someone that can do the grafting for you. This may seem like a lot of trouble to go through but if you want a healthy, large and productive tree, I highly recommend this route if you are looking for something other than Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few other varieties that seem to perform ok on Florida/Turpentine rootstock.

If you do plant a pre grafted Florida/Turpentine rootstock tree, you will get annual blooms which will significantly slow down the overall growth of your tree. I also want to point out that not all Turpentine rootstock are bad performers here in SoCal. Leo Manuel has planted Turpentine seeds and used them with success.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 06, 2017, 12:30:14 PM
For those of us that have grafted seedling trees or have purchased pre grafted trees, I often get the question of when do I prune off the blooms or flowers? I used to recommend that you prune off the panicles when the flowers or fruit are pea to marble size but I was wrong. It gets a lot more technical and the flowering article I linked to at the top of this thread explains the science in detail. In simple terms, you should prune off the panicles when the (average)temperatures are above about 65-66F. At around 63F, you will get partial blooms and at 59F, you will get full blooms.

If you read the article however, you will find out that temperature is not the only factor. The age of the current flush and other factors such as drought stress influence the amount of florigenic hormones that may tip the balance towards flowering or a vegetative flush. Other information I have read indicates that increased nitrogen levels in the leaves may tilt the balance more towards a vegetative flush but highly unscientific experiments performed by me and several other SoCal mango growers indicate that cold temperatures is a much stronger promoter of flowering and increasing Nitrogen levels in the leaves by foliar feeding with multiple applications of high Nitrogen fertilizer in Winter and Spring has negligible affect on swinging the balance towards a vegetative flush.

I must admit that that our attempts at foliar feeding with Nitrogen on hardened growth in cool weather was more than likely a futile attempt but we were desperate. For those that aren't aware, foliar feeding is much more productive in active states of growth when new growth is in the expansion phase. Please see this thread for more info on foliar feeding. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=241.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=241.0)

For a visual of how temperature affects flowering, please see page 23 of 29 from this article.  http://download937.mediafire.com/9gfg1c9as1ig/6ikqa9b0uxoz4el/Breakoutyonemoto.pdf (http://download937.mediafire.com/9gfg1c9as1ig/6ikqa9b0uxoz4el/Breakoutyonemoto.pdf)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 06, 2017, 01:03:12 PM
that was my conclusion too Simon. I want to wait until we are at night temps over 65, by that time, blooms are over and fruitlets are formed. Safely remove pennicles then. Otherwise you risk 2nd bloom and even 3rd and kill the graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eirlis on April 06, 2017, 04:15:25 PM
Question - I have an in ground 3 year old LZ on turpentine rootstock that was damaged by my gardener's weed whacker and is now struggling. If I plant a manila seedling next to it and try an inarch graft, do you think it could recover? Or should I just start over entirely by grafting scions onto a LaVerne manila rootstock?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 06, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
I would suggest starting a new tree.  The Turpentine rootstock tree probably has mature brown wood that is more difficult to graft. Also, the Turpentine rootstock has so many issues that I prefer to start new and use the Turpentine tree for scions only.

When you plant the Manilla seedling, do not graft it. Let it mature until it is fully established and fruiting size before topworking it with the LZ.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 07, 2017, 06:08:01 PM
I recommend using LaVern Manilla seedlings as rootstocks because they are easily found and relatively uniform in regards to their performance around SoCal. We also have the option of using random seedlings as well and the benefit here is that you save a lot of money but you risk getting a sloweror faster growing tree compared to Lavern Manilla. The huge trees in Leo Manuels yard is proof that random seedlings do perform well here but some varieties may be more or less prone to diseases.

Here are some pictures of some seedlings that were direct seeded into the ground. Unfortunately, I was not even considering the ramifications of grafting such young seedlings with mature scionwood. This Venus grafted onto Kent seedling is in full bloom and is wasting its energy on this senseless flowering.

(https://s23.postimg.cc/j6ookil9z/IMG_1806.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/j6ookil9z/)
Here is a CAC/COC grafted onto another Kent seedling but this variety is currently not blooming even though it is only several inches away from the Venus and gets the same fertilizer, water and experiences the same weather. There are definitely scion/rootstock interactions at work here and probably the stage and maturity of the scion( before it was removed) has some influence on it vegging out.

(https://s28.postimg.cc/68vkn2h95/IMG_1805.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/68vkn2h95/)

For those planting random mango seeds into the ground, do not graft the tree with mature scions until it is fully established and at the size where it can actually bear fruit. These trees that I grafted too early will be stunted with annual blooms until it reaches the size that I should have grafted them at. I just want others to learn from my mistakes.

The blooms on my Venus have been on the tree for several months now, mango blooms on young trees take many months to form and removing them early will only trigger another bloom as I explained above. Even though the CAC/COC is not blooming now, it will very likely bloom this Winter and every year there after.

Because the bloom cycle takes so long, young seedlings will likely only get one or two growth flushes and because it expended much energy on blooms, the vegetative flushes will not be as strong.

A seedling that was not grafted will simply stall and swell buds in Winter and have a strong vegetative flush as soon as the weather warms. A seedling that was not grafted will likely have 2-3 vegetative flushes or more if fertilized properly.

With each set of new leaves a seedling veges out, it will increase the total surface area for photosynthesis. This extra amount of surface area for gathering energy needs to be multiplied by each day it receives sunlight and hopefully you can see that soon there will be a drastic difference in growth rate between the grafted and nongrafted seedling.

In essence, the grafted seedling will be growing at a linear rate where as the non grafted seedling should grow at more of a logorithmic rate.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ScottR on April 07, 2017, 10:55:06 PM
Wow, nice thread Simon,I haven't read all yet but what i have read is very useful information for Cal. growers ;) 8)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 09, 2017, 04:16:48 PM
Thanks Scott, hopefully it will help people grow healthier more productive trees here.

Now that the temperatures are warming up, our plants and soil microbes will start showing activity again and this is a good time to re acidity the soil if you haven't already done so. For long term lowering of the pay of your soil, I recommend elemental Sulfur but this has a very slow pH lowering effect. In the meantime, you can use Iron Sulphate which is faster acting or you can also drench with water that has been pHed to 6-6.5.

I don't recommend using Aluminum sulfate due to the accumulation of Aluminum to toxic levels.

You really do need a soil test to determine the actual pH of your soil before you try to acidify but yellowing leaves are a good indication that your pH is drifting up.

For an organic way of decreasing pH, I recommend using cottonseed meal as it is acidic and will also provide nutrients to your plants. If using cottonseed meal, I recommend gently working it into the top of your soil so that the cottonseed meal won't clump together and get moldy when it gets wet.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 18, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
For those Mango growers that don't want to plant seedling( not grafted with mature scions) trees and grow them to maturity before topworking, I have come up with a slightly less involved technique that has not been tested but should work in theory.

Again, to be safe, my number one recommendation is to plant Lavern Manilla Seedlings and plant them into the ground ungrafted. But, if you want to experiment or save a little money by planting random mango seeds, this technique may work and is much less labor intensive than top working a mature tree.

For this new technique that I recently came up with, you will need a seedling from a Polyembryonic variety that has a unique smell to the sap when you injure a leaf such as Lemon Zest or Sweet Tart. Plant your seedling into the ground or in a pot and take care of it like you normally would. You will need more than one sprout coming up from the seed and it's safer if you inspect the seed to make sure each seedling is coming up from a different segment of the seed. Because of this, it may be easier to sprout the seed in a clear plastic ziplock bag with a slightly moist paper towel to ensure you get at least two seedlings coming up from different segments of the seed.

You need at least two seedlings because there is a chance that one of the seedlings is zygotic. Grow up the seedlings until they are large enough to remove a scion or two. When the seedlings are large enough, break off a leaf and crush it in your hands. The sap from the clone should smell like the sap from the original actual parent Lemon Zest or Sweetheart, assuming you have these varieties and you know what the actual varieties sap smells like.

Once you find out which seedling is the clone, use its scion to graft onto your seedling or Lavern Manilla rootstock. By grafting seedling scions onto seedling rootstocks, the scion should not flower in its first winter but you will get the benefit of having a grafted tree with a named cultivar(sort of, because it's a clone seedling).

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 26, 2017, 12:11:32 PM
I'm just trying to compile all pertinent information into this thread and I'm lazy so I am copying a reply I posted on another thread. This reply has some info on why I feel Sweet Tart could potentially be a good rootstock for us to use in SoCal where I Strongly recommend planting seedlings that are not grafted and letting them reach fruiting size before allowing them to fruit or topworking them one they have established scaffold branches. Here's my previous reply:

Mono seeds will not grow true to seed whereas Polyembryonic seeds should have one zygotic seedling produced from selfing or from cross pollination and the rest of the seedlings should in theory be clones of the parent. This is basically the same as nucellar seedlings in Citrus.

Polyembryonic seedlings are especially important, in my personal opinion, because they are seedlings and lack the florigenic hormones that cause young, 1 foot grafted trees to flower in cold climates like mine.

Polyembryonic varieties are especially important to mango breeders as use for rootstocks because of their predictable behavior.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0)

Thanks to Bsbullie for mentioning it in another thread, I never considered using the smell of the sap of crushed leaves(Zills technique) to determine the potential quality of seedlings. I used this technique and hypothesized that one can combine this technique with what we know about polyembrony in order to use the sap smell as a built in genetic marker, similar to how a researcher would insert the green flourescent protein as a marker that is clearly visible and identifiable. In our case, we would use our sense of smell to detect the clone but this only works for polyembryonic varieties most notably from the newer Zill selections that have a strong unmistakable sap smell such as Sweet Tart and Lemon Zest among others.

I confuse myself sometimes so what I'm trying to say is that we are lucky to have these strong sap smelling polyembryonic mango varieties like Sweet Tart because they have a built in clone indicator, the smell of their sap.

This year, I have plans to plant out many Sweet Tart seeds to test it as an alternative rootstock to Lavern Manilla for those trying to grow mango in colder marginal climates such as in SoCal. The Lavern Manilla grows great here but the fruit is horrible and not everyone knows how to graft. Additionally, the Lavern Manilla rootstock IS Polyembryonic but there are no Phenotypic markers allowing the nursery worker or tree purchaser to know with confidence that the tree is actually a clone. Without knowing that you have a clone, the predictability about the growth and fruiting behavior of that tree goes out the window.

I like Lemon Zest more than Sweet Tart but LZ has horrible issues with Powdery Mildew on specific rootstocks. The information I've found for Sweet Tart so far have indicated that it could be an excellent rootstock for marginal climates because of the following:
1) Vigor- its large size and fast growth will enable it to establish and reach fruiting size faster. In my area, mangos seem to grow at about 1/2 to 1/4 the rate compared to South Florida.
2) Polyembryonic- it has a built in Phenotypic marker that allows us to select the clone with confidence. Once the growth and fruiting attributes have been observed and documented, we will have a reliable tree with excellent tasting fruits that grows and fruits with predictability. Observations need to be made on seedling Sweet Tart trees and not ones that are already grafted onto other various rootstocks.
3) Disease resistance- observations made from trees grafted onto Florida rootstock as well as various other rootstocks including Lavern Manilla indicate that this variety is quite Disease resistant. I have not observed any issues with it regarding Anthracnose nor Powdery Mildew.
4) Production- this variety is one of the most productive varieties I have seen. Even small trees will set fruit and try to hold them to maturity. This is actually an issue for people growing mango in colder climates where I am recommending that we grow our trees to maturity( fruiting size) before allowing it to flower and fruit but this is a moot point because I am recommending that we grow seedlings which are not grafted and will thus likely not fruit until it reaches physical maturity.
5) Taste- recent taste evaluations at local mango tastings has ranked this variety at or near the top of polls.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on May 26, 2017, 07:14:08 PM
Quick question- what do you recommend if we already planted the grafted mangoes from Florida (on turpentine) in the ground.  They were planted this season and last season in early spring.  Varieties are LZ, cotton candy, Phoenix, fruit punch, mallika, PPK, ice cream.  We definitely noticed the propensity of these plants to flower.  Most flowered vigorously.  Last year we made the mistake of cutting of the flowering stalks and they flowered again.  This year, we left them on and are painstakingly removing the pea sized fruit one by one. The plants seem to be putting on vegetative growth, albeit slowly.  Will this continue?  If we are are okay with slow growth, can we keep the trees as They are?  Or should we buy manilla rootstocks and graft them all to make sure that we don't lose the trees altogether?  Then, keep those for scions in pots and do what you recommend starting with planted manilla rootstocks?

Thanks in advance for your mango tree growing wisdom!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 26, 2017, 09:24:35 PM
If you already have the grafted trees, I would recommend treating them as you have been, taking care of them as best as you could. Some varieties do just fine on Florida rootstock and we don't know which of the new varieties does or doesn't do well on that rootstock yet. You may need to stake up the branches as they get droopy but you might as well work with what you have unless your goal is to grow large trees. I feel that if you are careful to monitor the pH of your soil and water, mulch your trees heavily and foliar with micronutrients, you can have Florida grafted trees growing well.

Fruit4me has many Florida grafted trees that are performing well although he is the only one I know of that has such a large collection of Florida grafted trees doing so well. His thick layer of mulch or his particular microclimate may have something to do with his success. Everyone else I contacted has trees in decline or their trees have already died. Some varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few others grows fairly well on Florida rootstock.

I would just recommend that you plant seeds/seedlings/Lavern Manilla seedlings/ and especially Sweet Tart seeds in close proximity to the Florida trees in case the trees die. If they do die, you will already have a backup seedling that is potentially ready for grafting.

Growing mangos and gardening in general should be thought of as a dynamic process that is constantly changing and evolving. The gardener should have an open mind so that you are able to adapt to changes you observe in your trees. By having backups, you can be ready to save any particular variety if you notice parts of your tree dieing back.

Simply buying Manilla rootstock and grafting them will cause them to flower within a year or two although this may be your best option if you have a variety in decline and have no other rootstocks available. It's better to plant Manilla or whatever other seedlings and not graft them until they reach fruiting size.

I keep saying fruiting size and not giving specific dimensions or heights because each grower will have a different idea of what that ideal fruiting size is for them. One person may want a smaller tree and allowing it to fruit at a smaller size will take away some of that vigor and help to keep the tree small. Others may want hundreds of fruit in which case they should allow the trees to grow out very large before top working the main scaffold branches.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on May 26, 2017, 10:01:33 PM
Very well said, Simon. I am letting my Manilla and Kent seedlings grow and develop in the ground and then I will graft top cultivars onto them. Our conditions here in So. Cal is quite different from Florida. Thanks for the advice and input from your learning experience as it is much appreciated.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CGameProgrammer on May 27, 2017, 01:46:08 AM
My (alleged) Lemon Zest from Florida, which I bought about six months ago and is in the ground, has already set a couple dozen fruit but it is also growing new leaves from the base of those panicles, so it's not doing what some others report where trees fruit themselves to death. So it seems like a great performer.

My Coconut Cream, purchased at the same time from the same place (Plant O' Gram), flowered but did not set fruit and I haven't yet noticed any new leaves either, although I last checked a week ago.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2017, 02:34:03 AM
My Florida grafted Lemon Zest is holding fruit and starting a new growth flush as well although I have to stake it up and it has major cracks in the trunk. Hopefully the fruit will be full sized instead of the nubbins I got last year. The panicles were heavily infected with Powdery Mildew and I plan on using baking soda to inhibit this fungus next year. Hopefully this works but I intend to re apply the baking soda mixture every once in a while, especially after a rain, in order to maintain a higher pH to make conditions hostile to sprouting spores.

I'm experiencing dieback on multiple branches on my LZ on Florida rootstock although one of my experimental Double Stone Grafted trees has died back even more severely and was on the brink of death before I sprayed it with Abound. It has since started bouncing back but I may pull it soon because my Sweet Tart on DSG is growing amazing without symptoms of Phomopsis. I'm starting to see why Mango breeders prefer Polyembryonic rootstock- because you can predict resistance, or lack there of, to diseases.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on June 07, 2017, 03:39:53 AM
For those of us that have grafted seedling trees or have purchased pre grafted trees, I often get the question of when do I prune off the blooms or flowers? I used to recommend that you prune off the panicles when the flowers or fruit are pea to marble size but I was wrong. It gets a lot more technical and the flowering article I linked to at the top of this thread explains the science in detail. In simple terms, you should prune off the panicles when the (average)temperatures are above about 65-66F. At around 63F, you will get partial blooms and at 59F, you will get full blooms.

Simon

Looking 10 days ahead according to Weather.com, my average daily temp has now reached at or above 66F; so, should I go ahead and cutoff this one pannicle holding 2 fruits that size? Its on Laverne's Manila, about 9 ft tall, first year bloom with 2 years Maha scion (thanks Warren).  The only other panicle on the tree has 1 fruit -same size- .
Thanks for your advice Simon!

Here's the photo as of June 2, 2017:
(http://i.imgur.com/KGVOdZCl.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on June 07, 2017, 04:45:09 AM
Why do you want to cut them off? according to what you stated, your tree seems to have decent size (9 ft), and the fruitlets are fairly big by now i think. you may want to post a picture of the whole tree and wait for more experienced members to give you their opinion
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 07, 2017, 08:32:39 AM
Sam, those are pretty good sized fruit already and based off your information, I would just let them grow and ripen. A 9 foot tree is considered pretty good sized and the Manilla rootstock should do well for you. It's still really cold where I'm at and my mangos are tiny, only about marble sized although I removed the initial fruit set a while back at the risk of re blooming. Most the trees where I removed the initial blooms have now re bloomed. I wanted to go against my own advice just to make sure.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on June 07, 2017, 01:08:07 PM
Ok, I'll let them grow and ripen; thanks for your advice and explanation Simon and Shinzo!
These will be my first own grown mangos for me, if they can hold till maturity, and if I can protect them from the squirrels...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 07, 2017, 07:28:09 PM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 07, 2017, 07:32:39 PM
Hana321,
How many years were your trees in the ground before they started producing (and you let the fruit mature)?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 07, 2017, 07:53:04 PM
Both of those trees productive in the second year after i planted them. The yield is different every year. Last year, the unknown had so much fruit on it, it bent the tree down. This year, the unknown only produced a very small batch of 6-8 mangoes. The Carrie traditionally has held a small number of fruit. The tree is a dwarf, and it has decided to take a horizontal growth habit, and It stands about 3 feet tall.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 07, 2017, 08:22:26 PM
i am from San Diego originally and am now in Florida in the Mango tree industry and this a 2 cents you may want to evaluate. Chris Rollins told me about issues with mulching in winter, you guys are really dry in summer and need mulch to keep in water but in winter mulched trees get more cold damage due to mulch insulating them from the heat escaping the ground at night and the ground warming during the day. In FL non mulched trees fair better on cold nights than mulched trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 08, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!

Simon

I found a list of cold hardy mangoes that are grown in Egypt. Most Egyptian mangoes are grown in Al Ismailia which has similar climate to Socal. Do you want me to translate that list to English ?.

Al Ismailia climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailia#Climate
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 11:21:33 AM
Yeah sure, that would be great but I'm not a big believer in cold Hardy mangos. The research I've done over the last several years has shown that cold tolerance was mostly a factor of the size of the tree with older, larger trees being more resistant to cold weather.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 11:30:21 AM
In regards to growing Mango and other tropical/subtropical fruit trees in SoCal, a member here pointed me towards a few articles that has great explanations on why the old way of planting our fruit trees was flawed.

These articles from Laguna Hills Nursery are excellent and have great explanations.
http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/SOIL-INFO.html (http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/SOIL-INFO.html)
http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/PLANT-INFO.html (http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/PLANT-INFO.html)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 08, 2017, 06:08:36 PM
Yeah sure, that would be great but I'm not a big believer in cold Hardy mangos. The research I've done over the last several years has shown that cold tolerance was mostly a factor of the size of the tree with older, larger trees being more resistant to cold weather.

Simon

According to the Egyptian lecture, cultivars with Long and thick leaves have a better chance to withstand cold weather than mangoes with small and thin leaves.

here is some of the cultivars that can handle cold (better than other cultivars that are grown in Egypt).

Zebda - timour - mahmoudi - bayeri - Ox heart - Cobbanih - Ewais - Mesk - Langra - Fajri kalan - Wahli Basha

Quote
تقسيم الأشجار من حيث درجة احتمالها للبرد :

     1- أشجار قوية الاحتمال :

     زبدة - تيمور - محمودى - بايرى - قلب الثور - كوبانية - عويس - مسك - لانجرابنارس - فجرى كلان - والى باشا .

more info here (use google translator)
http://www.vercon.sci.eg/indexUI/uploaded/Mangoproduction/mangoproduction.htm (http://www.vercon.sci.eg/indexUI/uploaded/Mangoproduction/mangoproduction.htm)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 06:32:22 PM
Thanks evilfruit!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 08, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!



Simon


You don't want to rake it back because it will only hold the heat in for the roots, you need it to release the heat so it will create a mico climate as the heat rises around the tree. Only keeping the roots warm will not help the main body of the plant when it is very cold.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
Won't raking the leaves back at dusk lock in the heat captured during the day and slowly release the heat as the temperature gets lower.

Someone on this forum posted how Citrus growers actually overhead water during freezing spells and this creates a protective layer of ice which prevents damage to the interior of the canopy.

In reality, I think most of us growing mango in marginal climates will use mulch and just leave it there at the risk of holding in the heat at night and blocking heat in the day. Sounds like it would be best practice to clear the mulch in Winter but that's also when I hibernate.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 09, 2017, 12:02:44 AM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on June 09, 2017, 08:17:14 AM
Hi everybody,

I've been reading you all for a few weeks now, and this is my first post in this forum. This topic is specially interesting for me -thank you Simon and rest of members sharing so useful info- since I live in southern Spain, in the coast of Mediterranean Sea and climatic and soil conditions are pretty similar to those of SoCa. In my particular case I do not have trouble with cold since absolute minims here almost never go below 4ºC (39ºF) but I do have the same problems as you with high pH and extremely dry summers. Here it stops raining in June and keeps like this at least until September, but lately I'm noticing that the dry season is getting longer, starting in May the last years.

Regarding rootstocks as you all probably know by other members from my country, the most popular here is Gomera 3, with a good resistance to limestone soils and cold temperatures, and very high resistance to Pseudomonas. Another one with even greater resistance to very high pHs is 13/1 from Israel, available here just in one place as far as I know. This one is a good choice when pH and space are a problem, because is little vigorous.

I found very interesting the advice to let the trees grow until they get the size enough to bear fruit. I gonna have the trouble described in this topic since my 3 mangos are all drafted in the traditional way. One of them, a Sensation, I'm thinking now of removing the scion and let the Gomera 3 of the rootstock grow free. The other two (a Keitt and a NDM 4) I'll probably let them be and see what happens. For the other varieties I wanted to plant (LZ, ST, CC, Maha, PPK) I'm thinking after reading this topic that the most practical way to go could be to look for seeds instead of scions. Seeds should resist better the shipping process and I just would have to select the clon seedling in order to graft it in a Gomera 3 or a 13-1.

Thanks everybody for sharing so useful info!

Jose
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 09, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
"Some varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few others grows fairly well on Florida rootstock. "

Add to Simon's list, I found Edward also is doing great with Florida rootstock in Socal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:02:36 PM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
No, my two trees that i have had here in The ground are about 5-6 years old now. The 3 foot tree is a natural dwarf, and it chosen a low growth habit. The other tree s much larger, about ten feet now. I have also seen other mango trees in the neighborhood. Some specimens quite large, and much more developed than my trees. I generally like to trust what i see, and can personally experience. I have had failures here with plants, but never with mangos.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:18:24 PM
We also have Keitt mango groves in Thermal. And it has been known to freeze in Thermal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 09, 2017, 07:44:09 PM
Can you give some details on your irrigation practices for your mangos, and also the irrigation practices of the commercial groves out by you if you know them?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:55:44 PM
I am not familiar with the irrigation practices of the commercial growers in Thermal. As for where i am at, we are a little warmer than Thermal, and it has never frosted here in the 8 years i have been in this location. It has gotten into the low 30's. I don't give the trees any special treatment to the trees. I do run sprinklers for about a minute at night before it gets cool at night, but the trees are not mulched or covered at all. I also have Plumeria trees in the same area as the mango trees and they are not given special protection either.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 10, 2017, 09:49:36 AM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
No, my two trees that i have had here in The ground are about 5-6 years old now. The 3 foot tree is a natural dwarf, and it chosen a low growth habit. The other tree s much larger, about ten feet now. I have also seen other mango trees in the neighborhood. Some specimens quite large, and much more developed than my trees. I generally like to trust what i see, and can personally experience. I have had failures here with plants, but never with mangos.

Have you meet Gary a senior member of his forum? He lives in Palm Springs  and his accounts are quite different than yours so all of us know that  growing mangos in SoCal as easy as you make it out be. He has survey his area for mango trees and has seen no more than a handful of mature seedling trees. Mango seedling seems to do well in SoCal grafted trees are another story they take a long time to get establish .... I trust senior members of this forum and their research.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
I do not know Gary. I will say that Palm Springs is a different beast entirely. They have horrific winds which are very damaging to trees. They make it very hard for trees to keep their flowers. All of trees are grafts. I dont have any seedlings. If i did live in Palm Springs, mangoes would be very difficult to grow im sure, but then again so would most everything else. My experience has been mangoes are very resilient to the heat, and they can take a dair amount of cold. I know what i know, no one has to believe me.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 10, 2017, 10:43:17 AM
I believe you ;)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 11:38:13 AM

(https://s9.postimg.cc/wg4xwzwij/1497108846424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wg4xwzwij/)
Mature mango trees in so cal.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/ozwgdxuh1/1497108956783.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ozwgdxuh1/)

(https://s3.postimg.cc/800xxyhpb/1497109025886.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/800xxyhpb/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 10, 2017, 01:04:30 PM
Those are very nice young trees but far From being mature
We appreciate your experience but growing and fruiting mangos in SoCal is doable but not easy like iin south Florida. Use the forum search you might learn something

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20139.msg248968#msg248968 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20139.msg248968#msg248968)

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ec41f3e9f458cb3da79449b77dc4cc4e&topic=2992. (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ec41f3e9f458cb3da79449b77dc4cc4e&topic=2992.)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.msg25169#msg25169 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.msg25169#msg25169)







Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 01:16:37 PM
My trees are young still. I have a neighbor that has a really mature tree heavily loaded. If i can get a pic. I will post it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 01:31:30 PM
I will check out the link
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 07:38:04 PM

(https://s10.postimg.cc/y66a8ap9x/1497137724374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y66a8ap9x/)
Neighbor's much older tree
(https://s10.postimg.cc/7bg6ktht1/1497137776023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7bg6ktht1/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 10, 2017, 09:30:05 PM
I put in 5 trees last fall.  They all made it through winter and are just now starting to flush.  But a few of them just keep blooming over and over.  One of them which was very small set about 30 fruits.  I plucked them all off.  But the trees keep blooming.  Anything I can do to make them do vegetative flushes?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 01:42:38 AM

(https://s10.postimg.cc/y66a8ap9x/1497137724374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y66a8ap9x/)
Neighbor's much older tree
(https://s10.postimg.cc/7bg6ktht1/1497137776023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7bg6ktht1/)
Hana, beautiful tree your neighbor has, it looks like a seedling tree which seems to grow much better than grafted trees.

Spaugh, there's not much we can do besides building a greenhouse or some other means of keeping them warm in order to inhibit flowering. There are probably hormones or chemicals that can swing the balance towards a vegetative flush but I can't recall any at the moment.

If you take care of your trees and let them establish a bit before fruiting, you can still have a productive tree although it may need staking and it may take a while for it to gain some real size.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 11, 2017, 02:11:24 AM
I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 08:30:19 AM
Sometimes you just get lucky. I recently removed some blooms from my trees and most my trees are re blooming. Wether or not they bloom again is based on a large part to the weather. If average temps are below about 60F, there is a strong chance the next push is floral. I removed many small mangos that were about marble sized and my tree is re blooming.

I linked an article on blooming in the first page of this thread.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 11, 2017, 09:51:30 AM
Simon, interesting, It seems that 3 centimeters is an appropriate size cutting off the mangoes to trick them. I used a ruler and measured them at 3 cm before cutting them. Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 11, 2017, 12:40:19 PM
here is my Edward, Edgar, Gary, Parson,Providence, Jegenghir and Duncan they are loaded with fruits inside outside the canopy the only problem is that they don't have enough room to spreed their wings.




(https://s1.postimg.cc/l5pfrohe3/IMG_8800.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l5pfrohe3/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/f27v7rr4b/IMG_8801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f27v7rr4b/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/46ghcf66j/IMG_8802.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/46ghcf66j/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/cpzva6eiz/IMG_8803.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cpzva6eiz/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/xvto4rpcb/IMG_8804.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xvto4rpcb/)

In front there is Calostro with ten grafts of his own.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/uz6n4hjij/IMG_8799.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uz6n4hjij/)


and Hayse on the east side
(https://s10.postimg.cc/42lgw351h/IMG_8805.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/42lgw351h/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 11, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
Beautiful trees jf
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 11, 2017, 02:10:29 PM
In florida if you give mangoes to much nitrogen they will often push leaves and not flower. You could try giving them higher nitrogen
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 03:26:13 PM
Me and a couple other members applied high Nitrogen fertilizers to the ground and via foliar and the mango trees still bloomed.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 04:21:19 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 11, 2017, 04:40:52 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 11, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?


Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.
The two grounded mango trees i have are in my lawn area, so they are irrigated year round by the sprinklers. I usually run the sprinklers 5-6 minutes 3x per day, 7 days a week during the hot time of the year. July and August temps are commonl in the one hundred teens. The smaller tree, my dwarf, is on a slight slope, so i typically take the hose out there, and give that tree a bit of extra water. Other than that, my trees are not given any special treatments. My trees typically explode in blooms starting in like February. Typically, the trees lose 95 percent of the flowers. I read somewhere that the mango tree will only keep what it can afford to grow. We also have some pretty good winds in the spring which typically kill off more of the flowers also. Mangoes love warm weather, so any place that does not get good warm summers, and mild winters will find mangoes challenging. Also, areas like Palm Springs where high winds are frequent may also find mangoes challenging. But in reality, i dont really believe that mango trees are as difficult as some tropical/subtropical plants.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 06:42:12 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.

My neighbor who is over on the north side of the hill here has 3 or 4 mature mango trees.  They gave us a mango pie several months ago.  They have quite an impressive fruit orchard over there.  So I know my trees should make it, just need to be patient like you said.  Good things come to those who wait.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 11, 2017, 06:54:50 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food.

The "P", middle one, is to high if you don't want blooms. Try something like 10-0-9 or anything high in "N" and low in "P"
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 07:08:24 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.

Many of the Grafted mango trees available are on a rootstock that does not perform very well here. Seedling mangos are relatively easy to grow, especially if they were directly planted into the ground. Because many new mango growers are unaware of Grafted named varieties, they plant seeds from fruit they ate. The seedlings grow well because they are not grafted and will not go through the rigors and energy drain of flowering at a young age. Instead, all the energy is utilized in spreading out its roots and shoots, enabling it to get established faster than a grafted tree.

This is why I am promoting the planting of seedlings, especially those from polyembryonic varieties because these polyembryonic seedlings should produce similar quality fruit if the clone is selected for per my instructions above utilizing the smell of the crushed leaves.

The Margot Mango I posted about is just one such example.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 07:43:53 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food.

The "P", middle one, is to high if you don't want blooms. Try something like 10-0-9 or anything high in "N" and low in "P"

Ok, I will hit it will some disolved 21-0-20 amonium sulfate + SUL PO MAG

The soil and water are alkaline and need some PH down anyway.  I wont get too carried away with fertilizers but surely they can use a small dose. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 15, 2017, 07:05:17 PM
Here is a picture of a mango tree (flowering) in Wakan Village in Oman. Wakan village is located  at about 2000m above the sea level near Jabel Al akdar (green mountain).

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-As5s9KJxMbA/WIzjjyNXpNI/AAAAAAAABzo/AZIRXYSmO0cuCJUaJQs8vd5I9QsL3eXPACLcB/s1600/IMG_2169.JPG)

Peach tree from the same place

(https://s3.postimg.cc/imzj912mn/IMG_20170127_090858.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/imzj912mn/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 16, 2017, 11:32:43 AM
Evilfruit, thanks for the picture of the Mango tree. Is that a seedling? It's even cooler because there's also peaches growing in the same area. I hope the fruit from that tree is tasty.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 16, 2017, 12:10:28 PM
Hey, I learned from the Laguna Hills Nursery Owner that he paints his mango trees like an avocado. Maybe the reason why turpentine rootstocked mangoes have extreme dieback is that as the leaves droop and die, it exposes the tree branches and bark to sun, cooking it alive. Starting to think mangoes are extremely like avocado trees
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 16, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Mango trees on Florida rootstocks do droop and expose some branches to the burning sun but the die back is caused by Phomopsis and other issues. Die back often occurs on branches that have no sun burn and a friend sent in sample from trees with die back and it came back as Phomopsis. Thanks again for the links to Laguna Hills Nursery Annonamangolord, much of the information they posted is spot on with the latest methods recommended for backyard horticulture.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 16, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
Good to know, thanks and no problem
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 17, 2017, 08:19:29 AM
Evilfruit, thanks for the picture of the Mango tree. Is that a seedling? It's even cooler because there's also peaches growing in the same area. I hope the fruit from that tree is tasty.

Simon

You are welcome.

No Idea about the fruit quality but, It could be a turpentine mango seedling because It is very popular in this part of the world.

By the way, We don't call it turpentine mango,  we call it Hambaa Omani (Hambaa = Mango).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 07, 2017, 08:54:38 PM
i planted two mangos in November. 1x winters and 1x kiett. after reading this post i'm thinking it might have been a mistake and waste of $$$.

the winters sent out one flower stock but no new leaves. existing leaves do not look that great and it does not look like it is growing.

the kiett keeps sending out flowers and i have started removing the fruit. it does have new growth on the main trunk, but it does not look very healthy and no new leaves on the main branches.

everything else in the yard (avocado, citrus, pineapple guava, plumeria, passion fruit, etc.) is doing great. Papaya in pots are also doing great.

i am coastal san diego county, so cold is not an issue. but high temps are mild and maybe not hot enough?
should i remove growth from the trunk on the kiett?
i am working on finding a soil test kit, lab, etc. maybe need to adjust ph and fertilize???
soil here is very sandy and seems to drain good, so i don't think that is an issue.

any input is appreciated.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 04:20:52 AM
i planted two mangos in November. 1x winters and 1x kiett. after reading this post i'm thinking it might have been a mistake and waste of $$$.

the winters sent out one flower stock but no new leaves. existing leaves do not look that great and it does not look like it is growing.

the kiett keeps sending out flowers and i have started removing the fruit. it does have new growth on the main trunk, but it does not look very healthy and no new leaves on the main branches.

everything else in the yard (avocado, citrus, pineapple guava, plumeria, passion fruit, etc.) is doing great. Papaya in pots are also doing great.

i am coastal san diego county, so cold is not an issue. but high temps are mild and maybe not hot enough?
should i remove growth from the trunk on the kiett?
i am working on finding a soil test kit, lab, etc. maybe need to adjust ph and fertilize???
soil here is very sandy and seems to drain good, so i don't think that is an issue.

any input is appreciated.

Lavern and a few other nurseries may be grafting trees on something other than Florida Turpentine so if you got lucky, you may have a rootstock that actually performs a bit better here. The problem is that Grafted trees want to constantly fruit here in our relatively cool weather.

We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer wether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 08, 2017, 10:09:58 AM
Surfcardiff, I am in a similar position.  Bought florida trees before being clued in by Simon.  Its a lot warmer here 16 miles inland and my trees are starting to flush so give yours a few weeks they will probably start doing it too.  Although I have 5 florida trees and some are flushing and at least one of them just keeps blooming.  So even the trees can't agree on what they want to do.  This is the 3rd time this tree has bloomed this year.  Simon, should I cut the blooms off?  The previous round of blooms, the tree set about 20 fruits and I picked them off and cut off the blooms. Haven't messed with these yet. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/35408162950_67e6aa39e9_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 08, 2017, 11:06:24 AM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon

Is it ok to feed with fertilizer containing phosphorous?  The best stuff I have is gro power avocado/citrus 8 6 8
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 12:59:44 PM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon

Is it ok to feed with fertilizer containing phosphorous?  The best stuff I have is gro power avocado/citrus 8 6 8

I have the same food and that is a great fertilizer. Young trees still need Phosphorus for growth even though we don't want them to flower at such a young age.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 08, 2017, 03:23:49 PM
We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer whether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon

Is it ok to just cut the blooms off now, or do I need to wait until fruit begins?

Here are a few pictures. The Winters looks dormant. Hope it does something soon  :)

The Keitt keeps blooming but no new vegetative growth??? Hopefully the heat kicks it into the growth gear.


(https://s13.postimg.cc/djklsruv7/MG_2575-2_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/djklsruv7/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/ucfv4xwxv/MG_2576_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ucfv4xwxv/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/8m717nsw3/MG_2577_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8m717nsw3/)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/dan12ui2r/MG_2578_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dan12ui2r/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/vc660nc3n/MG_2580.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vc660nc3n/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 04:22:48 PM
Your Winters is in pretty good shape, I would leave it alone and then stake up the branches as new growth begins to weigh down the branches.

Your Keitt has growth all over the trunk. It looks like it's on Florida Turpentine rootstock and the trunk may be stressed with gummosis, cracks or soft spots on the trunk. You may want to remove all growth below about 3 feet and then stake up the remaining branches. Your tree will be extremely droopy because if the growth habit of Keitt combined with the rootstock. Make sure you supply good micronutrients, especially Manganese.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 08, 2017, 04:45:34 PM
Your Winters is in pretty good shape, I would leave it alone and then stake up the branches as new growth begins to weigh down the branches.

Your Keitt has growth all over the trunk. It looks like it's on Florida Turpentine rootstock and the trunk may be stressed with gummosis, cracks or soft spots on the trunk. You may want to remove all growth below about 3 feet and then stake up the remaining branches. Your tree will be extremely droopy because if the growth habit of Keitt combined with the rootstock. Make sure you supply good micronutrients, especially Manganese.

Simon

I will remove the growth below about 3'.

I picked up a test kit from Armstrong in Encinitas. The ph appears to about neutral, ~7.0. So may need to lower? I will re-read beginning of post to look at options to do this. The kit info pack says 5.0-6.0 for mango. Does this seem correct?
Working on determining nutrient levels next.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 07:06:30 PM
7.0, isn't too bad but at 6.5, your tree should have no issues uptaking all the micronutrients. The cheap soil test kits are not very reliable and it depends on where you take the sample. For example, the top inch of soil may have a different pH than if you dig down a foot or two. You may want to take many samples from different areas of your yard. My soil has different pH values when I sample the front vs Back vs side yard. The areas where I have been amending the soil are slowly approaching 6.5 and I started with  about 8.2.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 09, 2017, 06:47:01 PM
7.0, isn't too bad but at 6.5, your tree should have no issues uptaking all the micronutrients. The cheap soil test kits are not very reliable and it depends on where you take the sample. For example, the top inch of soil may have a different pH than if you dig down a foot or two. You may want to take many samples from different areas of your yard. My soil has different pH values when I sample the front vs Back vs side yard. The areas where I have been amending the soil are slowly approaching 6.5 and I started with  about 8.2.

Simon

The kit does seem more sophisticated than others I have used, but don't know how repeatable and accurate results are. It is this one http://www.lusterleaf.com/nav/soil_test.html (http://www.lusterleaf.com/nav/soil_test.html)

I did measure at a few locations and all are about the same, 7.0 ph.

Can you recommend products to lower ph and also fertilizer.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 09, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
Granular soil sulfur is what I use. I also use cotton seed meal and pH down which you can order online. The pH down works immediately but gets washed away just as quickly. The soil sulfur acts more long term. The cotton seed meal has nutrients and will decrease soil pH slightly.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on July 10, 2017, 10:58:18 AM
The only local Nursery that has grafted mangos on Manilla root stock is Mimosa Nursery in LA. I am taking Simon's advice and planting my Kent and manilla seedling in the ground and letting them grow for several years prior to grafting. I have some mango trees on Turpentine root stock I purchased from Florida two years ago but they are in containers and are only used for creating scions for my mango seedling I planted in the ground. Based on my two years of experience doing this, the Florida mango's do appear to look droopy and in general do not grow as well relative to my non turpentine trees. I would avoid using Florida root stock in California.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on July 11, 2017, 12:59:51 AM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on July 11, 2017, 03:57:18 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).
Do you aplly coffee grounds when it is very hot during growing season also?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 11, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).

Opinions on this are all over the place.  It would be best to do an actual test of the PH of the grounds.  Using sulfer is a more surefire way to lower soil PH.  Or if you garden on a small scale, using RO water and PH adjusting the water with nutrients/buffers is best.

http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/ (http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/)

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on July 11, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).

Opinions on this are all over the place.  It would be best to do an actual test of the PH of the grounds.  Using sulfer is a more surefire way to lower soil PH.  Or if you garden on a small scale, using RO water and PH adjusting the water with nutrients/buffers is best.

http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/ (http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/)

I do use sulfur, sometimes.  But I prefer coffee grounds because: 1) it builds soil organic matter, 2) worms seem to love it, 3) it serves as a mild, relatively balanced fertilizer, 4) it gently adjusts pH, 5) it's widely available, and 6) most importantly, it seems to work really well to correct the problems associated with high pH soils for subtropicals around here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 12, 2017, 03:07:09 PM
We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer whether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon

Is it ok to just cut the blooms off now, or do I need to wait until fruit begins?



Here are a few pictures. The Winters looks dormant. Hope it does something soon  :)

The Keitt keeps blooming but no new vegetative growth??? Hopefully the heat kicks it into the growth gear.


(https://s13.postimg.cc/djklsruv7/MG_2575-2_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/djklsruv7/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/ucfv4xwxv/MG_2576_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ucfv4xwxv/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/8m717nsw3/MG_2577_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8m717nsw3/)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/dan12ui2r/MG_2578_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dan12ui2r/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/vc660nc3n/MG_2580.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vc660nc3n/)


The soil seems too dry at this time of year. If day time with above 80F, then water every other day about 2 gallons each tree, new shoots would come.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 12, 2017, 03:16:52 PM
Spaugh & Surcardiff,

My trees used to have the same look as yours until I changed the way I watered them. Dig a trench 12" around away from the trunk and water the trench and not near the trunk. This encourage root to grow outward instead of root bound and trees will be more healthier and grow faster.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 16, 2017, 07:47:45 PM
thanks for all the input.

the winter's is is starting vegetative growth, yeah!!!

i picked up some soil sulfur and Gro Power 8-6-8. How often do i reapply the soil sulfur?

i didn't do the trench, but a ring of 1/2-inch poly tube around the perimeter with adjustable drips. this way i can modify configuration as tree grows. i'm going to do this on all my citrus/avocado.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 17, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
few picts


(https://s22.postimg.cc/sd9ln6kct/MG_2588_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sd9ln6kct/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/woy7c6r9p/MG_2589_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/woy7c6r9p/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/3y1dm4lfx/MG_2590_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3y1dm4lfx/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 17, 2017, 01:04:26 PM
Is anyone in California using SOP (Sulfate of Potash/Potassium Sulfate) on their mangoes? I can't seem to find the 0-0-50 anywhere.

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 17, 2017, 01:20:46 PM
I believe Walter Anderson Nursery in Poway has that but call them to make sure. I wouldn't use that on young trees however because they need Nitrogen to grow. Nitrogen is also utilized by plants when flowering and fruiting but it is rarely mentioned.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 17, 2017, 01:32:09 PM
Thanks Simon! The trees have been in the ground two years now. I'm targeting to let them fruit next year. They are growing like crazy right now; new shoots coming out everywhere.  I'll probably give them one more application of Citrus and Avocado fertilizer, but around October I was thinking of giving them some SOP before they start to bloom in the Winter. Are they still too young for that?

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 17, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
I would personally not let a two year old tree fruit, even if it was planted as a 7 gallon but the decision is ultimately the growers choice because only you have an idea how you want your tree to grow and produce.

My best friend allows his young trees to fruit against my advice because he wants to purposefully stunt his trees as he does not want them to grow too large. Unfortunately, allowing young unestablished trees to fruit also weakens them and opens them up to disease.

I would much rather wait and have a large established tree producing lots of fruit year after year than allowing a young tree produce 1-5 ok fruit the second year and get stunted growth or possibly a weakened or dead tree in the following years.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on July 17, 2017, 04:41:38 PM
I would personally not let a two year old tree fruit, even if it was planted as a 7 gallon but the decision is ultimately the growers choice because only you have an idea how you want your tree to grow and produce.

My best friend allows his young trees to fruit against my advice because he wants to purposefully stunt his trees as he does not want them to grow too large. Unfortunately, allowing young unestablished trees to fruit also weakens them and opens them up to disease.

I would much rather wait and have a large established tree producing lots of fruit year after year than allowing a young tree produce 1-5 ok fruit the second year and get stunted growth or possibly a weakened or dead tree in the following years.

Simon
Dr. Campbell speaks about this point in the last video you shared in the other thread, he was talking about a fine line that separate dwarfing and stunting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 17, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
I believe Walter Anderson Nursery in Poway has that but call them to make sure. I wouldn't use that on young trees however because they need Nitrogen to grow. Nitrogen is also utilized by plants when flowering and fruiting but it is rarely mentioned.

Simon

Yes they do have it.  I use it on my hibiscus plants along with other more well balanced fertilizers.  I would probably try grow power flower and bloom 3-12-12 on the mango trees instead of hitting it with 0 0 50 if you are looking for less nitrogen and want to promote bloom/fruit. 

I use the grow power 8 6 8 on my fruit trees and use the flower bloom  3 12 12 on my flowering plants and vegetables/berries/watermelons. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 07, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
Using some fertilizer on the trees seems to have gotten them going.  Here are my florida trees.  They seem to be doing ok.  Slow growing but healthy.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4378/36289676691_d8121172a9_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4396/36426396555_e900a05e88_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4392/36289694731_276d217987_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on August 08, 2017, 12:16:28 PM
I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.


So maybe there's hope, yet!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on August 08, 2017, 12:37:53 PM
My mango seedling has these weird black spots on the sides of the leaves, and one of the leaves has an odd black dot that is spreading.. Is it anthracnose? Will it kill the young seedling?


Thanks, Matt
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 08, 2017, 05:01:50 PM
Nice updates Spaugh! Any pics of the seedlings we planted? Now is also a good time to give our trees micronutrients either through foliar feeding or through soil drenches. Iron is especially important but so is Magnesium and Manganese, especially here in SoCal.

Matt, I get spotting on many of my seedlings and they seem to grow through it. My seedlings are responding really well to the micronutrients.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 08, 2017, 08:26:37 PM
Will wait a week or 2 to photo the in ground seeds and transplants.  The transplanted ones are about to flush.  Seeds are still real tiny.  They may get cooked in the sun, not really sure yet.

I have another dozen seeds in pots that I may experiment with indoors under a 200W cree cob grow light.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on August 09, 2017, 01:38:10 AM
I believe I ordered my 0-0-50 from Southern Ag? I also ordered chelated iron and micros as well. Its nice when you can have things delivered. Chris
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on August 09, 2017, 05:41:28 AM
Nice updates Spaugh! Any pics of the seedlings we planted? Now is also a good time to give our trees micronutrients either through foliar feeding or through soil drenches. Iron is especially important but so is Magnesium and Manganese, especially here in SoCal.

Matt, I get spotting on many of my seedlings and they seem to grow through it. My seedlings are responding really well to the micronutrients.

Simon
Hi simon, are Iron, Magnesium and Manganese safe to drench during summer heat? I have no idea about this and my question may sound stupid, but i wanted to be sure before drenching my seedling with these nutrients.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 09, 2017, 08:28:03 AM
Yes, it's safe do drench with these in summer heat, at least where I live. For container plants, it's good to feed frequently but in diluted concentrations because frequent watering washes away much of the soils nutrients. Southern Ag Citrus nutritional spray is a great drench and foliar. You can also use a complete fertilizer with a good micro package.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on August 09, 2017, 11:27:47 AM
Hey simon, you said those black spots are normal, what are they?

Also, I would like to ask the forum when I should divide these mango seedlings? Thanks, Matt
(https://s1.postimg.cc/r2owmvmbf/IMG_1245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/r2owmvmbf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/ag7cdstdn/IMG_1246.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ag7cdstdn/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 09, 2017, 05:57:19 PM
Matt, I can't even see any black spots on the leaves. My eyes are not so good, can you take a zoomed in picture? You can separate seedlings once the current flush has fully hardened. Actually, wait a week or two after fully hardening just to be safe. Once you seperate them, you may want to give them some shade until they recuperate at which time you can slowly transition them back to full sun.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ikk on August 16, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
I am looking a purchasing a Mango Tree I did find the Manila at HomeDepot which I am considering buying although I am also looking at possibly a dwarf variety.  I know you can keep the mango trees trimmed and kept at a more desirable size like 8 to 10 feet high and wide.  My question is this.  I am working on redoing my yard this fall and would like to purchase the mango sooner rather than later.  Also the area where I plan to keep the tree is in an area I may not touch for a few years. I have a few questions I would like to have answered if possible.
Can I keep it in a pot.  I plan on make the pot myself out of wood if it needs to be large so size is not an issue.
If kept in pot what soil would be best to use? I do plan to use Mulch
It will be hooked up to drip irrigation so drying out should not be an issue.
I grow Bananas in my area without issue so I figure I should have the climate for a Mango
Thanks
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2017, 02:39:49 PM
Mango's grow much slower here in SoCal the un pruned Lavern Mnillas seem to slow down a lot when they get to about 15 feet tall and that's without pruning. It's best to plant into the ground immediately but in your situation where you may or may not work on that part of your yard, you may be better off finishing your yard before even purchasing the trees.

When I planted out my yard, I thought I was being smart by getting my trees into the ground immediately so that I can get fruit sooner but that turned out really bad because now there's weeds growing everywhere. I should have completed my land/hardscapping first taking into account sloping the soil away from the foundation and all the other little caveats that one should consider when landscaping.

It's ok to keep them in pots for a while but make sure you up pot when necessary. You don't want J root or your tree getting pot bound.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 03:08:45 PM
So let me ask a question. I know this May have been covered many times but I wanna make sure that I got it. Is it more advisable to plant a Manila seedling from LaVerne and allow it to branch out before top working which will result in greater success or can we just graft onto a new seedling from LaVerne And expect the same results. I guess my question is which one is more vigorous due to our weather constraints and the length of our seasons. Which one is stronger or is it equal since we are using manila rootstock  either way?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: fyliu on August 16, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
So here is the rough list of things that happen.

1. Get LaVerne seedling in pot
2. Plant it in the ground
3. Let it grow new roots
4. Let it grow new leaves
5. Top the trunk at some height: knee, waist, or chest.
6. Let it grow new branches
7. Graft onto the end of new branches

Zarafet, if I understand you correctly, you're asking about grafting it after step 1 versus grafting it in step 7.

I don't think it's a good idea to graft in the pot. The plant is not as strong as it would be in the ground.
The stronger the rootstock, the more vigorous the graft. I think doing it after step 5 is stronger than step 7 since the full strength of the tree is on one graft rather than divided among several branches. How do you know the tree is strong before it grows new branches is the problem with trying to do it earlier. It'll grow more roots the longer you wait.

If you get a tree now, there's not much time left to graft this year. So you need to decide to graft it in before October or next April-May.

Anyway, definitely put it in the ground first if that's the ultimate goal for it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
Thx, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
As fyliu mentioned, there are many factors at play and very early in this thread, around page 1, I mentioned that it's best to plant the Lavern Manilla or random seedling into the ground and just let it grow and establish.

I would not immediately graft because once the tree is grafted, it will likely flowering its first or second Winter which uses a lot of energy. It's better to just let the tree grow and establish its roots. It is ok to shape the tree if it does not have good branching but if it's a whip, just plant it and let it grow for about a year before you top it to create your branching.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
 That was my next question, I bought 2 just now,  thank you all for your experience and wisdom. I have a 3 year old in ground Keitt seedling and it's VERY dwarfed, I have 4 growth flushes at 1 foot,  I will let it do it's thing and once old enough to flower, I'll graft it to a seedling to see if it's a true dwarf or if it's responding to it's environment vs biology.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Seanny on August 17, 2017, 10:43:56 PM
Air pruning mango seedling

(https://s29.postimg.cc/kibsi8p2b/iphone_pix_051.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kibsi8p2b/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on August 18, 2017, 01:19:38 AM
Has anyone here bought any of La Verne's pre-grafted mangos and then grafted more varieties on those?  (Do they use their "Manila" trees as rootstock for their grafted ones?)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 18, 2017, 02:11:10 AM
No and yes.

Has anyone here bought any of La Verne's pre-grafted mangos and then grafted more varieties on those?  (Do they use their "Manila" trees as rootstock for their grafted ones?)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on August 19, 2017, 09:46:50 AM
I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Heres the multigraft tree Simon, and my 20222 winters and sweet tart.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4439/35932686033_229d0d6afa_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4376/35932689743_b588939893_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4356/36742144775_271702cfa1_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.

I wish I could find some of those in San Diego County.  Would speed things up considerably if they were a decent shape and ready to graft onto.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 22, 2017, 10:26:53 PM
Thanks for the update Spaugh! Just for clarification, the experimental multiple rootstock tree is innarched but ungrafted(no mature scion wood grafted on). I neglected it by keeping it in the pot too long but it looks like it's really enjoying your fast draining soil. I'm eager to see how it will grow once the roots are fully established.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 10:46:16 PM
 :) the other seedling looks good too, it has a little flush started that is deep purple also.  The florida trees had more of a brown flush.  Ive got about 15 altfolo seeds started, a couple kents and keitts.  Going to setup a grow lamp in my garage (which stays a bit cooler than outside) this week and put half indoors and give them RO water and liquid fertilizer and see how they like that.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on September 01, 2017, 01:58:33 AM
Top 5 mangos in SoCal so far long way to go
St 5
Carrie4.90
coc 4.75
Fairchild 4.65
HK4.5
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on September 01, 2017, 02:29:42 AM
Thats funny. I gave a couple of 'Carries' to an Indian colleague and she hasn't stopped raving about them since last year. To each their own (I like them...Shh). Chris
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2017, 10:11:08 AM
Top 5 mangos in SoCal so far long way to go
St 5
Carrie4.90
coc 4.75
Fairchild 4.65
HK4.5

Frank, thanks for the report! I really like the top three you have listed so far. Too bad my Carrie on Turpentine rootstock died shortly after it fruited. I'm going to graft a few onto my seedling rootstocks.

For those growing mangos in SoCal, if you have young trees that are not of fruit bearing age, you can fertilize again right now to encourage an additional flush if your tree isn't already in an active state of growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on September 26, 2017, 11:08:46 AM

I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.

So maybe there's hope, yet!
And here is it:


(http://www.kan.org/pictures/KeittMango3.5Years.jpg)


I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.


This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on September 26, 2017, 11:40:36 AM
I have a question about growing mangoes in California. I am having my father in-law flying in from the Philippines to help me with the yard and tropical fruit trees while I am overseas. Can variety of mangoes like Valencia Pride stay the cold nights of Riverside uncovered? He possibly doesn't know what the hell he is doing over there. That's why I don't want to bother him over covering this tree, that tree. I just want him to do basis plant care only. Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on September 26, 2017, 12:17:32 PM
yes, I am in Corona and we every year hit 32, havent lost much, however occasionaly you will lose a limb on young trees. key is on frost nights (there are 1 or 3 per year) water heavy, water keeps the temps up.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on September 26, 2017, 12:29:18 PM
That's good to hear.  Thanks,  Behl!

yes, I am in Corona and we every year hit 32, havent lost much, however occasionaly you will lose a limb on young trees. key is on frost nights (there are 1 or 3 per year) water heavy, water keeps the temps up.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 26, 2017, 01:32:32 PM

I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.

So maybe there's hope, yet!
And here is it:


(http://www.kan.org/pictures/KeittMango3.5Years.jpg)


I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.


This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.

Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on September 27, 2017, 08:48:40 AM
I have used cloud cover (or wilt pruf) on 30 degree nights and have NEVER  lost a leaf or branch. It's not guaranteed as there are many factors like microclimate that play a role in protecting the tree. I also use it in the dead in summer on over 100 degree days to protect from sunburn and water loss due to the heat, on top of painting trunks and exposed branches with a 50/50 mixture of paint and water.



I have a question about growing mangoes in California. I am having my father in-law flying in from the Philippines to help me with the yard and tropical fruit trees while I am overseas. Can variety of mangoes like Valencia Pride stay the cold nights of Riverside uncovered? He possibly doesn't know what the hell he is doing over there. That's why I don't want to bother him over covering this tree, that tree. I just want him to do basis plant care only. Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jct on September 27, 2017, 01:47:40 PM
I wish I could find some of those in San Diego County.  Would speed things up considerably if they were a decent shape and ready to graft onto.
Not sure if you are looking for just the Manila Mango or ones with another variety grafted onto it, but I've seen a bunch of Manilas at Walter Anderson.  Some look better than others and they're a bit expensive, but I ended up taking the plunge on one.  Growth has been slow so far.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on September 27, 2017, 02:36:31 PM
I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.

This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
80s and 90s. Not terribly hot. And not terribly different from what happened last August. Maybe it just hit adolescence, finally.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on September 27, 2017, 03:24:37 PM
Hey guys, I'm having trouble deciding which sweet tart mango seedling came true, answer tree 1 or tee 2 depending on which is true, they both have a very pungent odor to their leaves
Tree 1
(https://s26.postimg.cc/3ntwwbl4l/IMG_0830.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3ntwwbl4l/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/pyhrwaiet/IMG_0991.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pyhrwaiet/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/5aej3t7sl/IMG_1091.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5aej3t7sl/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/5lvzgko8l/IMG_1537.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5lvzgko8l/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/razgy6fud/IMG_1538.jpg)
Tree 2


[url=https://postimg.cc/image/s2akmxbqt/](https://s26.postimg.cc/s2akmxbqt/IMG_0213.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/razgy6fud/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/6n5vgk0xh/IMG_0321.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6n5vgk0xh/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 28, 2017, 10:04:07 AM
Hey Annonamangolord, if you don't have a real Sweet Tart to compare the scent to, you can stop by my house to break a leaf off and compare to your seedlings. In these cases where you are not sure which one is the true clone, it's best to grow both seedlings together and wait for them to fruit and then ax the one that is not the clone, unless of course the non clone also has great fruit. I have several Sweet Tart seedlings and in my case, both seedlings arising from the seed are both clones.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 28, 2017, 11:23:11 AM
I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.

This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
80s and 90s. Not terribly hot. And not terribly different from what happened last August. Maybe it just hit adolescence, finally.

I looked at the weather for your town its 70s all week.  Its in the 90s here.  You got some beautiful mild weather there.  Maybe a bit overly mild for mangos.  They really like triple digit heat to make them grow.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 28, 2017, 01:59:17 PM
Looking at spaugh's pic in post #80: the tree was under stress and wanted to die. It said let me die once I bear some babies. The the photos it seems the environment is hot , strong sun, and low humidity during summer. Look at the lower part of the trunk: scorched bark.

Now look at pic in post #126 of the same garden -- the un-scorched trunk had some protection from the lower leaves.

In this environment, we can help the mangoes by protecting the exposed trunks (wrapping light color paper around, or allowing shootings remain around the lower trunks to provide shade).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 28, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
The tree from post 80 wasn't in the later post but I have some photos of it.  All of the trees were planted during the cold season and then pugged in spring of this year to a bare stem around 18" tall.  When it grew it started flowering because it is a florida grafted tree and the cold weather makes it bloom until summer.  Once the temps got up it did a few vegetative flushes.  This tree did more flowers over winter than my others.  Its the reason Simon says graft onto a mature tree.  Or they will end up like this one spending half the year flowering.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/35408162950_67e6aa39e9_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4396/36426396555_e900a05e88_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4379/37245354895_736eb84aea_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenbean88 on September 29, 2017, 07:02:33 PM
WOW this thread has been a wealth of knowledge to read through as a very new SoCal Mango guy. I currently have 4 mangos in the ground and room for about six more :) I want to take the time and transition everything to Manila root stock myself. My question is if I have several Manila root stock plants that I bought from Lowes should I plant these trees in there permanent locations right now or leave them in there pots and graft/plant them in spring?   

Also on a separate issue Toptropicals website is posting that they have Orange Sherbet grafted trees for sale is there any possibility that this could be legit?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on September 30, 2017, 02:21:04 PM
OS from top tropicals is not legit, you'll have better luck asking some local guys on the forum maybe next year, or if anyone in CA has a fruiting tree, ask them. The OS from top tropicals is a LZ. Os generally has flat leaves and a valencia orange smell to the leaves, and the new growth is somewhat transluscent
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 30, 2017, 04:31:19 PM
WOW this thread has been a wealth of knowledge to read through as a very new SoCal Mango guy. I currently have 4 mangos in the ground and room for about six more :) I want to take the time and transition everything to Manila root stock myself. My question is if I have several Manila root stock plants that I bought from Lowes should I plant these trees in there permanent locations right now or leave them in there pots and graft/plant them in spring?   

Also on a separate issue Toptropicals website is posting that they have Orange Sherbet grafted trees for sale is there any possibility that this could be legit?

For your Manilla Mango trees, it depends on your climate. Do you get frost? If you Mango trees can survive outdoors unprotected, I would immediately plant them now so they can establish a bit before Winter hits. If you do get frost, I would wait until after the last frost date to plant.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenbean88 on October 01, 2017, 10:45:39 PM
Thank you Annona and Simon for your responses. Simon I do not think that my area gets frost but that got me thinking what defines frost? Is it a temperature or actual frozen water that covers the ground/plants?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on October 02, 2017, 01:26:25 AM
Here is that picture of the 15gal La Verne Manila mango I found for sale.




I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/8zmphpyobf/IMG_2602.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8zmphpyobf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/5u77is5rez/IMG_2603.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5u77is5rez/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: arc310 on October 02, 2017, 01:35:16 AM
how far apart are you guys here in socal planting the mango trees from each other?  i read that our climate here does limit growth (so not like the huge mango trees i see in every yard in hawaii when i was there haha).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BestDay on October 02, 2017, 09:43:36 AM
Mine are planted seven to eight feet apart. After a year and a half in the ground it seems like reasonable spacing. Only time will tell though.

Bill
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 12:00:51 PM
I copy and pasted this from another thread because the discussion is useful here:
I have a bunch of random seedlings and it’s too early to say for sure but they all seem to grow as well as the Lavern Manilla Mango seedlings.

Simon

Interesting.  What do you think it is about the Turpentine seedlings they use in Florida that makes them particularly bad for California?  I ask because if so many different seedlings can work for us, but Turpentine doesn't, there must be something about it that makes it uniquely bad for us and good in Florida.

I’ve been contemplating this fact for about the last six years and can’t say for sure what it is but there are several possibilities that do pop up in my head.

One of the possibilities is the fact that the trees are initially grown and potted in Florida and we don’t know how long they’ve been in the pots. They can be in the pots for extended periods of time because they need to be shipped to California and once they reach their destination here, they still need to be displayed at the Nursery where they may sit for another several months up to several years before they are sold. Based on my own personal experience, trees that are immediately planted into the ground as soon as they are purchased establish faster and appear to be much healthier than a tree that is purchased and kept in a pot for an extended period of time before planting.

Having stated the above, I was delivered several trees which were smaller and very healthy when I received them and I immediately planted them into the ground and they still died. They were Tebow, Carrie, NDM #4 and Mallika.

Another possibility is that there are disease pressures here that are not prevalent in Florida. Some of the major issues we get here is Phomopsis, gummosis and droopy branches that seem to lignify at a small diameter and not expanding much, or at all, after the lignification. I can pretty easily look at a Mango trees trunk and branches and tell whether it’s a Florida tree or not.

We have noticed several details that should give us a clue as to why the Florida trees perform so poorly here. Several varieties such as Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart and a few others appear to grow very well here on Florida rootstock although they still get some dieback, gummosis and droopy branches. These varieties are all vigorous and seem to be able to outgrow whatever it is that’s inhibiting other varieties on Florida rootstock.

Another pattern that I have noticed over the years is that the Florida rootstock trees appear to grow much better in areas with more heat units. This should be obvious to most people but it can easily be overlooked when we are focused on a specific geographical location such as Florida Vs SoCal. In Palm Springs, Gary’s trees on Florida rootstock are growing very well and even his Lemon Zest on Florida Turpentine rootstock is growing excellent and producing lots of high quality fruit.

When we focus in specifically on SoCal, I have noticed a trend where all the microclimates with higher heat units such as La Habra, Anaheim Hills and other slightly warmer cities in SoCal have much better success with Florida trees than in cooler climates like mine.

I know we would like to keep it simple and find the one reason why the Florida rootstock trees perform so poorly here but nature is complex and dynamic and I believe the issue is a combination of all the factors I listed above.

If I were to make my best guess right now, I would say that the Florida trees perform poorly here because (1) of the long duration they are kept in their pots, both at the Nursery in Florida, the Nursery here in SoCal and also at the homeowners property before they are planted into the ground.
(2) there are disease pressures here, or acquired in Florida, that affect our trees much more severely because of reason (1) above and because our cooler climate does not enable our trees to outgrow the disease pressures as easily as if they were grown at a warmer climate with higher heat units such as that of Florida or warmer parts of SoCal.

A grower can better understand what I’m describing above if you track how many vegetative growth flushes we get here Vs what Floridians get. Some of my Florida rootstock trees such as Glenn, Edward, Spirit of 76 and Maha Chanok have been in the ground about 7 years now and on average, they only vegetatively flush twice a year.

This is partially due to the fact that they bloom and hold fruit for about 6+ months out of the year and we only get good vegetative flushes for the warmest 2-4 months depending on where you live.

In order to capitalize on this small window period of “Ideal” growing weather, the Mango grower must water and fertilize properly in order to take advantage of these conditions.

I will copy and paste this into my “Growing Mango trees in SoCal” thread as I am drifting off topic.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on October 14, 2017, 12:09:05 PM
Thanks Simon for the detailed answer.  That makes sense, and I'm happy with a complex answer rather than a simple one.

I wonder if a corollary is that we might want to find varieties (or related species) that are from higher elevations in the tropics and use those as rootstock here to improve year round growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 02:03:25 PM
That could work. Seedlings are highly variable however and Polyembryonic varieties would be the best choice for consistency. Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.

Here is a picture of a Kent, Keitt, Haden not sure which one, seedling that is approximately 3-4 months old. It is almost two feet tall and has a strong trunk for a seedling it’s size. It grew so fast because of the fertilizer and the timing of the growth. It went through it’s seedling growth period during Summer and was able to capitalize on all the heat.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/1phpv7rm4r/267_CB119-_DC2_C-4296-_B4_B7-6_DE954_DB33_E3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1phpv7rm4r/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/7b6oux29nv/9_E98_AC8_A-5_C77-4_BF4-_A2_D6-56_F338942206.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7b6oux29nv/)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 02:23:18 PM
Here are a few other random Mango seedlings I have planted in the yard.


(https://s1.postimg.cc/3lxus6chbf/095_AEC95-_EED8-454_B-9_A35-_BF26_C47_DF6_DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3lxus6chbf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/8tt5f66za3/2_B0_ED88_A-4511-4797-_AC13-_D34_B4_B336969.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8tt5f66za3/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/7206k9f9gr/E136495_E-_CDA6-465_C-8797-_E229758495_F3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7206k9f9gr/)
So preliminary results show that random seedlings grow as well as LaVern Manilla. Productivity, disease resistance and long term survivability are yet to be unseen however Leo Manuel has many huge Mango trees and the majority of them are top worked seedling trees.
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 12:58:39 PM
Here are pictures of my trees.  Some ordered from Florida, some purchased at Champa Nursery, some from Exotica.  All on Turpentine, I believe.

My Phoenix.  First year in the ground, planted in March.  Growing vigorously, no flowering this year.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/tognxp1t1/20171120_143859.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tognxp1t1/)

Ice Cream.  In ground 2 years.  Slow growing as expected.  Has flowered but also grows vegetatively.  Not my worst performer.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/cb6dj2r51/20171120_143912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cb6dj2r51/)

Lemon Meringue. My best sized tree.  2 yrs in the ground.  Only grows vegetatively, no flowering so far (which is good).

(https://s2.postimg.cc/lvq063tdh/20171120_144031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lvq063tdh/)

More coming....

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 01:18:35 PM
Sweet Tart.  First year in the ground. Has flowered and is growing more slowly than some others.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/yoe45oa0l/20171120_143924.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yoe45oa0l/)

Fruit Punch.  First year in the ground.  Growing vegetatively pretty well.  No flowering.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/rl68q977p/20171120_143929.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rl68q977p/)

Lemon Zest.  First year in the ground.  Growing nicely.  No flowering yet.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/711erxz85/20171120_143944.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/711erxz85/)

Cotton Candy Mango.  First year in the ground. Experienced transplant shock but recovered.  Growing but slowly. 

(https://s2.postimg.cc/v4s6gckat/20171120_144045.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/v4s6gckat/)

Carrie Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers a lot.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/bo7gth1xx/20171120_144023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bo7gth1xx/)

Malika Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly. One of the worst for this reason.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/6csk8xvcl/20171120_144059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6csk8xvcl/)

Cyndie


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 01:28:24 PM
Nam Doc Mai.   2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly.  Didn't expect this with NDM as I've seen mature NDM grown pretty close to me.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/6csk94atx/20171120_144115.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6csk94atx/)

Valencia Pride.  2 yrs in the ground. Thought I could get away with a small tree since it's known to be a vigorous grower.  Made the mistake on accident of letting this fruit in the first year (Didn't see the fruit until it was too late) and it has been stunted and has grown very slowly as a result.  I hope it will recover.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/fyqq349d1/20171120_144129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fyqq349d1/)

Well that's it besides a Manila which I am growing and will eventually top work.   I wanted to share so we can all learn from each other to see what Mangoes are growing well in San Diego. I am at 700 ft elevation, 9B. 

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on November 22, 2017, 03:09:14 PM
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!
(https://s33.postimg.cc/bk9g1av5n/20171119_221925.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bk9g1av5n/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 24, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
Cyndie,

Thanks for posting all the pictures! You have a great selection. I am eager to see how your trees perform since most of them are on Florida rootstocks. There were several members here from this forum that planted many Mango trees from Florida and when I messaged them to ask how their trees are doing, they told me that the majority of the trees have already died or are in decline with very slow growth.

Some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties seem to grow well and even thrive but my observations so far is that the trees would probably be even larger and more productive if it were on a different rootstock. If your soil has a good pH, good draining, mulched well and you get enough heat units, the Florida trees may perform well for you. We have one member here that has lots of Florida trees that seem to be thriving but he is one of only a handful of people having success with Florida rootstock trees so far.

Even when Florida trees grow well here, they tend to be droopy and need to be propped up and it can sometimes take several years before you see a decline in growth rate.

Most your trees look good so far so hopefully they will grow well for you. I recommend planting a few random seedlings next year from store bought fruit and see how their growth rate compares to the Florida rootstock trees. You may be shocked, maybe not?
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 24, 2017, 07:43:24 PM
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!
(https://s33.postimg.cc/bk9g1av5n/20171119_221925.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bk9g1av5n/)

Behl, that’s awesome, I have several ST and LZ seedlings growing. I came up with a technique to split polyembryonic Mango seedlings. Simply grow the seed in a pot and once the seedlings are several inches tall, dig them up and crack the seed along the ridge lines.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/psx36vexd/5_A62_B411-15_B2-4796-88_EE-_C66_E0_B4_ABC91.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/psx36vexd/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/6b2fqx2k1/A39_C2309-_B871-4_B76-96_F3-_BE831_C6_C7_CB9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6b2fqx2k1/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/69shy2t6p/CB37_E4_C1-848_D-4014-_BC70-7_B7_E731_A4226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/69shy2t6p/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/hnf18p3j5/D0_FBDF5_F-3_F4_F-43_D0-88_E3-6_C7_A8_B1399_D8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hnf18p3j5/)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 25, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
Simon,

Thanks, it should be interesting.  I am considering pulling out the varieties that flower constantly and keeping them in pots for scion wood and planting manila seedlings.  I might also try to plant the same variety on Manila already grafted to see if the rootstock makes a difference. I am determined to be successful growing Mangoes!!

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on November 25, 2017, 05:13:02 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 25, 2017, 10:32:31 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on November 25, 2017, 11:02:08 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon

Thanks!  I guess what I will try to do for now is graft low and then pot up the trees into 15 gallon pots and keep them in the greenhouse to try to keep them from flowering too much.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 03, 2018, 12:39:26 AM
Member GregA sent this photo and txt msg to me a few months ago.  Figured you guys would like it.

"Saw this mango at a car wash in Point Loma today. Bare dirt, trash, and asphalt for mulch"

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/793/39390977600_82eb46015e_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 03, 2018, 08:15:50 AM
Awesome, I bet it’s a seedling. I love seeing thriving Mango trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 03, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.
Simon

I agree but exceptions always remain. I had a Fruit Punch seedling into 3.5 yrs that grew may be 8 inches total. I also have its scion that I grafted 2.5 yrs ago that grew 3 inches. so this particular seed was a total failure. I am still going to wait to see what that graft does in next several years, LOL

My recommendation is whether you use mono or poly, pick the most aggressive growing seedling for graft and you wont go wrong. You can tell in 6 months if its aggressive or not. One of my kent seedlings grew almost 3/8" in dia and 12 inches tall in about 7 months.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on April 03, 2018, 12:27:59 PM
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and it’s shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. M‘Y dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 03, 2018, 06:07:14 PM
I actually get faster initial growth rates from Monoembryonic Mango seeds and I hypothesized that it was caused by the seedling having all the resources and food energy stored within the seed where as Polyembryonic Mangos have the seed energy dispersed between multiple seedlings.

The context in which I mentioned that Monoembryonic seedlings have too much genetic diversity is that Monoembryonic seedlings are different from clonal rootstocks. Some people new to growing fruit trees might think that all seedlings arising from a Kent Mango seed for example will grow and produce identical Fruit and trees but this is not the case. Two Kent Mango seedlings can have very different growth rates, shape and smell of leaves/sap/Fruit even though both seedlings are from Kent fruit.

The maternal parent is Kent but the pollinating parent could be anything and even if it was selfed, there is recombination of the genes which can affect the resultant seedlings disease resistance, growth rate and Fruit.

Mono embryonic seeds can make excellent rootstocks but you will get offtypes.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lionking on April 04, 2018, 12:46:44 AM
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and it’s shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. M‘Y dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K

Hey Ca Hockey,

Where about sis the car wash?  I live in Covina/San Dimas border.  My kids go to school in Glendora..
I’d like to see that tree and maybe taste one of the mangos when available
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: scottsurf on April 07, 2018, 01:00:25 AM
thanks for all the info
going to start with a couple manilla seelings
when do the retail nurseries usaully get la verne stock and best place to get them in the san diego bay area
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 07, 2018, 11:39:09 AM
You can get Lavern Manilla Mangos at Walter Anderson Nursery, Armstrong Nursery and Home Depot. Home Depot and Walter Anderson are probably cheapest at around $25-30 per tree. If you know someone with a nursery license, you can get trees for really cheap directly from Lavern Nursery.

I would also recommend planting a bunch of random seedlings in case one happens to adapt better to your particular growing conditions.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CGP3 on April 15, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
I picked up a glenn and Haden last week that came from la Verne. I’ll let you know how they turn out.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rob P on May 15, 2018, 09:17:56 AM
Just a thought about selecting mango varieties for So.cal. One way to make it easier for the average gardener that does not require grafting skills, would be to select vigorous polyembryonic  varieties that are suited to your soils. To this day over half of the Australian commercial production of mangoes is based on the polyembryonic variety "Kensington Pride" which are produced from seedling trees! . This variety has the drawback of being very vigorous and orchards in tropical Australia use mechanised pruners to keep them manageable, but this would not be an issue in your climate. In fact a variety with lots of vigor would would be perfect for your cooler climate.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BestDay on May 15, 2018, 10:16:09 AM
I have actually been giving this same idea a lot of thought recently. My mangoes have been in the ground for about two years. The varieties described as vigorous upright growers definately look better. They are less droopy and more filled in. My Edward and Ice Cream are flat out ugly. Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart look great.

Bill
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 15, 2018, 06:47:32 PM
Just a thought about selecting mango varieties for So.cal. One way to make it easier for the average gardener that does not require grafting skills, would be to select vigorous polyembryonic  varieties that are suited to your soils. To this day over half of the Australian commercial production of mangoes is based on the polyembryonic variety "Kensington Pride" which are produced from seedling trees! . This variety has the drawback of being very vigorous and orchards in tropical Australia use mechanised pruners to keep them manageable, but this would not be an issue in your climate. In fact a variety with lots of vigor would would be perfect for your cooler climate.

Yes I absolutely agree, planting seeds from polyembryonic varieties is the best way to get a big tree that is less droopy and less likely to flower in its first several years which gives it time to establish and send out roots and shoots.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Dylan SB on May 16, 2018, 02:28:46 AM
How long will it take for monembrianic mangoes to bloom in California from seed?  I have a seed that I planted that has somehow survived the last three winters.  It is maybe 3 feet tall at best.  I had previously gotten a Manilla tree to produce but had removed it after several years of not producing any fruit to what I now know as powdery mildew.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 16, 2018, 08:24:45 AM
Monoembryonic and polyembryonic Mango seedlings can start blooming at a very early age due to cold stimulus. I had a Kent seedling bloom at about three years old although I believe 4-6 years is more common. The size and health of the tree can also affect when it blooms. Trees that are stressed may bloom earlier.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Dylan SB on May 20, 2018, 09:23:37 PM
Simon_Grow,

Thanks for the information.  Here is my small tree that has survived the last three winters.  It gets some protection from the Avocado that I grew from seed behind it. 



(https://s31.postimg.cc/g0d14ehlz/Seedling_Mango.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/g0d14ehlz/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rob P on May 20, 2018, 11:41:58 PM
Kensington Pride is a vigorous polyembrionic variety that could be tried, is has a very nice distinctive flavor, it does have a small amount of fiber. This variety is used a lot in breeding here in Australia to incorporate some of its flavor to the progeny as it is so familiar to the locals. R2E2 is a very popular variety which is a cross of KP and Kent for memory, it is a very large fruit with little fiber. Being a cross of a monoembrionic and a polyembrionic parent about half of the fruit contain a polyembionic seed, so these seed, can also be tried. Banana-1 is another Australian polyembionic selection that could be tried as well as one called Strawberry, I am happy send seed of all these if required as long as you arrange your own import permits. There are two more polyembrionic varieties that could be tried that are available in the US, one is Nam Doc Mai and the other is Early Gold, this last one is said to have moderate/high anthracnose tolerance.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spoons on July 30, 2018, 01:58:17 PM
After reading most of the entire thread, I've come to the conclusion that growing mango cultivars/varieties in San Diego are best done by grafting to a mature tree or top working rather than grafting to a young seedling rootstock, which is what I was originally planning on doing.

At this point I have over 2 dozen Ataulfo/Manila seedlings in 1 gallon pots and they are sprouting and growing.  I was really hoping to purchase a bunch of scions to graft them onto these younger rootstocks but based on what i've read and the 2 grafted trees i've purchased a couple years ago, i'm going to have to agree.  Neither of the grafted trees I have can support itself without a stake or 3.

The one tree I have has about half a dozen mangos growing but the plant itself is only about 5' tall.

I may graft one or two but I think i'm going to invest in the long haul and focus on growing these seedlings hopefully in a vegetative state for the next few years.  Gonna be tough to invest the time in watering with no fruits in sight. :(

Thank you Simon for posting this very valuable information.  Saves the Socal gardener lots of wasted time, effort and money from doing it the wrong way.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 30, 2018, 03:06:16 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you don’t have to graft.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: philek9 on August 01, 2018, 01:52:16 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you don’t have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds? 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 03, 2018, 11:30:24 AM
You can post a want add on the buy/sell forum.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 07:33:48 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you don’t have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds?

First of all I want to say big thank you for starting this thread and all the posts and comments Simon, perhaps I should have looked hear before making my purchase, I have placed an order for two mango trees (from Florida) those should arrive in the coming days or weeks, and I was planning to keep them indoor until the winter season is over.

I too live in San Diego so you can imagine my excitement to see those articles and reasearch were written/done by someone local. I plan to read it all in full, but there are a lot of information to catch up with.  My goal is to graft back ups of those trees on two Lavern Manilla, so my question and apologies if it is already answered, where do you recommend I get two good sized root stocks locally?
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on December 10, 2018, 07:40:32 PM
Simon has posted that pretty much all over the place. You can sometimes pick up La Verne Manila at your local hardware megastore. They don't always have them, but they do re-stock often, so check in frequently, if they carry La Verne (check the tags) and don't have the Manila seedlings in stock, place an order with them.

Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you don’t have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds?

First of all I want to say big thank you for starting this thread and all the posts and comments Simon, perhaps I should have looked hear before making my purchase, I have placed an order for two mango trees (from Florida) those should arrive in the coming days or weeks, and I was planning to keep them indoor until the winter season is over.

I too live in San Diego so you can imagine my excitement to see those articles and reasearch were written/done by someone local. I plan to read it all in full, but there are a lot of information to catch up with.  My goal is to graft back ups of those trees on two Lavern Manilla, so my question and apologies if it is already answered, where do you recommend I get two good sized root stocks locally?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 07:46:46 PM
Thanks, I read as much as I can during my lunch hour and perhaps skimmed over this information. I will check with some of my local nurseries and post in the trade/sale thread as well, I would rather help a fellow member if there are any selling root stocks locally.

Thanks for taking time to reply.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on December 10, 2018, 10:00:04 PM
Thanks, I read as much as I can during my lunch hour and perhaps skimmed over this information. I will check with some of my local nurseries and post in the trade/sale thread as well, I would rather help a fellow member if there are any selling root stocks locally.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

I picked up 2 Manila seedlings for $35 each last time I was at Mimosa LA. They had quite a few in stock, seedlings were 4-5’ high.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 10:27:25 PM
Thanks for the update, that is a place I'd like to visit one day, sadly I am bout 2.5 to 3 hours drive south of that place, I will visit Exotica this weekend see what they have. :-)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 11, 2018, 11:36:16 PM
ManVFruit,

I’ve been recommending LaVern Manilla because it has been tried and tested over many years but recent plantings have revealed to me that most random seedlings(that are vigorous) will work as well and in many cases, even better than LaVern Manilla.

I recommend you plant seeds from both Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties. Plant both types around the areas where you want your tree to be and just let them grow and establish. Once they are established, you can top work them.

The younger they are when you top work them, the fewer number of grafts you have to perform because you can graft the main scaffold branches when they are young. The added benefit of grafting low is that you don’t need to give your tree as much attention because you won’t have to worry as much about the rootstock sending up shoots.

The downside to grafting young and low is that because you grafted with mature scions, your grafts will likely flower and fruit in its first or second winter. When flowering is initiated, the weight of the flower panicles will cause the branches to droop towards the ground.

The bending of the branches from a vertical position to a horizontal position further exacerbates the problem because branches that are bent horizontally triggers a hormonal chain reaction which further pushes the balance of the tree towards floral initiation and away from vegetative growth.

We do NOT want our young Mango trees to flower and fruit at a young age! This may sound counter intuitive but trust me on this. We want to delay flowering and fruit production as long as possible.

One technique that helps a bit is to stake up your tree branches as vertical as possible. This is the opposite of what our friends in Florida and other warmer regions want to do but you have to remember that we are growing in a marginal climate for Mangos.

Brad and I have a ton of experimental mango plants growing and we are working on a best practice in order to come up with a technique that will grow the strongest healthiest mango trees with the least amount of effort.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 13, 2018, 01:49:42 AM
Thank you for taking time to write a detailed yet short and easy to ready post, I will most defiantly use this advice in the future when I find a more permanent place (in ground) for them, for now I will just use the three manila seedlings I just got from walter anderson nursery in Poway, oh and they still have some going for $19.99 if anyone is interested. They are in small pots and will most likely try to do approach graft with them, and then gradually move them to bigger pots once I confirm they did take.

 What are your thoughts on Nam Doc Mai as variety? I have 3 seedlings I am growing from seed, is it a variety worth keeping in the hope one is true poly ? or even graft one onto one of my manilas?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on December 13, 2018, 01:58:29 AM
Thank you for contributing.

All your questions have been answered in detail. Please use the search function before asking.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 13, 2018, 02:11:15 AM
Thank you for contributing.

All your questions have been answered in detail. Please use the search function before asking.

Oolie, the above reply is for Simon, I did not use quote feature my apologies if that confused you. I need to learn to use it more often. No not all my questions are answered no, my first were perfectly addressed by Simon though.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 14, 2018, 09:02:02 PM
ManVFruit,

NDM is a great variety to grow from seed.

Brad and I have actually come up with a better way to grow out Polyembryonic seedlings compared to what I recommended about a year ago. Last year, I recommended that we plant Polyembryonic seeds and simply let all the seedlings grow but in our field plantings, we noticed that the seedlings started pushing each other aside, causing them to grow slanted to one side.

Brad came up with the idea to graft one of the seedlings onto another seedling so that we can have a single trunk with two seedling varieties coming out of it. In hindsight, this should have clearly been foreseeable but we have so many different projects we are working on that it’s hard to put too much thought into any one project.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on December 14, 2018, 09:32:16 PM
I split a few poly seedlings and planted in multiple holes also.  That is also possible and the plant will take that no problem if its just a few months old or less.  Just carefully seperate them.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 14, 2018, 09:36:24 PM
Here’s a brief summary of our new technique for growing Polyembryonic mango seedlings.

Plant a Polyembryonic mango seed. You will need at least two sprouts from the seed to almost guarantee you get a clone. Based on literature, there can be more than one zygotic seedling so I can’t say for sure you’ll get a clone.

If you get a lot of seedlings coming up from a seed, select the largest one to use as rootstock and select the next biggest one as a scion donor to graft onto the rootstock. Before you graft onto the rootstock, ensure you save at least one branch from the rootstock in case it is the clone. Because the scion donor is slightly less vigorous, it should be grafted up higher.

In a batch of seedlings coming up from one Polyembryonic mango seed, if there are multiple seedlings that look the same and have similar growth rates, there is a good chance that they are the clones. Remember that I have hypothesized that the Zygotic seedling arising from a Polyembryonic seed can have the potential to yield good tasting fruit. I believe this to be true because such a seedling will have at least 50% of its genes from the maternal parent and the other 50% of its genes will be from another variety or itself.

Even if the zygotic seedling is selfed( pollinated by its own pollen) there will be rearrangement of its genetic material and the resulting fruit can be very different from the parent fruit.

Since most of us are only growing top tier varieties, the paternal pollen(if not selfed) will likely come from another top tier variety.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 14, 2018, 10:39:53 PM
Here’s a brief summary of our new technique for growing Polyembryonic mango seedlings.

Plant a Polyembryonic mango seed. You will need at least two sprouts from the seed to almost guarantee you get a clone. Based on literature, there can be more than one zygotic seedling so I can’t say for sure you’ll get a clone.

If you get a lot of seedlings coming up from a seed, select the largest one to use as rootstock and select the next biggest one as a scion donor to graft onto the rootstock. Before you graft onto the rootstock, ensure you save at least one branch from the rootstock in case it is the clone. Because the scion donor is slightly less vigorous, it should be grafted up higher.

In a batch of seedlings coming up from one Polyembryonic mango seed, if there are multiple seedlings that look the same and have similar growth rates, there is a good chance that they are the clones. Remember that I have hypothesized that the Zygotic seedling arising from a Polyembryonic seed can have the potential to yield good tasting fruit. I believe this to be true because such a seedling will have at least 50% of its genes from the maternal parent and the other 50% of its genes will be from another variety or itself.

Even if the zygotic seedling is selfed( pollinated by its own pollen) there will be rearrangement of its genetic material and the resulting fruit can be very different from the parent fruit.

Since most of us are only growing top tier varieties, the paternal pollen(if not selfed) will likely come from another top tier variety.

Simon

Valuable work you guys are doing, thank you for taking time to share.

Only one of the three NDM seedlings had two seedlings growing, I cut the weaker and slower one of the two few months back, all three are single seedlings growing in individual pots now. I may in future want to use one as rootstock for another variety and keep the two to grow in the hope I get good NDM fruits from them one day .

In the event I wanted to participate in some of the experiments you guys are doing, what Polyembryonic seeds besides NDM would you recommend? NDM seeds are difficult to get locally.

Thanks

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 15, 2018, 06:26:08 PM
NDM seedlings grow vigorously. The PPK line( PPK, LZ, OS) also grows vigorously. I recommend getting your hands on as many of the better tasting varieties as you can get and growing them because what grows well in my yard may not necessarily grow well in your yard.

Besides the ones I recommended already, Sweet Tart, CAC, Coconut Cream, Pina Colada.

These are just based off of taste.

If you can find them, E4, M4, Buttercream

Piña Colada starts out slow, I’m waiting to see how it does after the seedling stage.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 16, 2018, 05:43:14 PM
A couple of weeks ago I had one of Behl’s sweet tart mangoes. Phenomenal! Not a single black spot on it (sorry Florida folks but every st I had from Florida had some large soft black spots in them), perfectly ripe, and a brix of >32 . It basically maxxed the meter. Now I’ve got 3 sweet tarts going in my yard, 2 from Brad and one I grafted from Behl. Sadly the seed from this amazing mango didn’t make it. When I cracked open the seed huskier just didn’t look right and never germinated.

If my mango trees can get through the winter then I think I’m looking at a good summer of growth next year. Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on December 16, 2018, 10:51:40 PM
A couple of weeks ago I had one of Behl’s sweet tart mangoes. Phenomenal! Not a single black spot on it (sorry Florida folks but every st I had from Florida had some large soft black spots in them), perfectly ripe, and a brix of >32 . It basically maxxed the meter. Now I’ve got 3 sweet tarts going in my yard, 2 from Brad and one I grafted from Behl. Sadly the seed from this amazing mango didn’t make it. When I cracked open the seed huskier just didn’t look right and never germinated.

If my mango trees can get through the winter then I think I’m looking at a good summer of growth next year. Fingers crossed.

Kahled
ST is definitely an amazing mango grown here in Socal but you should get your hands on some LZ. It has won 3 tastings in the last 4 years. it doesn't blow the lid of the meter like ST but it certainly holds its own (26-30 brix).   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 16, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
One day I’ll get to try it - maybe next year. I had great growth on my lz tree but had a large scaffold branch rip off in the winds. Luckily my trees are still growing! I didn’t prune the tree well last year so some of the scaffolding branches originate from one spot on the tree. I think In subsequent  years I will selectively prune some of these large branches off but in the meantime I will see how things shape up over winter 😀.

Unless that is a terrible idea...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 08, 2019, 05:03:14 PM
Here are pictures of my trees.  Some ordered from Florida, some purchased at Champa Nursery, some from Exotica.  All on Turpentine, I believe.

My Phoenix.  First year in the ground, planted in March.  Growing vigorously, no flowering this year.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/tognxp1t1/20171120_143859.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tognxp1t1/)

Ice Cream.  In ground 2 years.  Slow growing as expected.  Has flowered but also grows vegetatively.  Not my worst performer.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/cb6dj2r51/20171120_143912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cb6dj2r51/)

Lemon Meringue. My best sized tree.  2 yrs in the ground.  Only grows vegetatively, no flowering so far (which is good).

(https://s2.postimg.cc/lvq063tdh/20171120_144031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lvq063tdh/)

More coming....

Cyndie

Would u be kind enough to post update photos on ur mango trees? Thanks
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 12:13:47 AM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 09, 2019, 12:40:20 AM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.
your best rootstock is kent or manila, germinate seed and show into ground in Apr, graft it in Sep/Oct and keep it warm. put into ground following year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: arc310 on April 09, 2019, 12:52:36 PM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.

i have corriente, manila and turpentine all in the same area and planted around the same time. i won't have any concrete proof till years later haha. but i was told as you've read that manila is good here..but corriente is great too but more unknown and harder to find (ie manila available at the box stores).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 12:56:12 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 01:33:34 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 01:40:10 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 01:46:25 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 09, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Hi all

I bought a month glenn mango from Champa a month ago.  After bare rooting it and leave it in the shade for couple weeks, I'm planning to leave it in a 5 gallon container for a couple months.  How much and how often should I water it while it is still in the container? -James
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 02:26:28 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Jks3f41/Screenshot-20190408-223440-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8Jks3f41)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fVxLRfgz/Screenshot-20190408-223448-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVxLRfgz)
 :)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cdzxqg66/Screenshot-20190408-223758-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cdzxqg66)


It depends what kind of soil u use. This was my ST on pot for almost 2 years b4 i recently planted it in-ground.

I personally love to use dirt on pots. Because the lack of aeration on a heavy clay & prone to rootrot. I water this every 2 weeks. But if u use potting mix, most likely everyday is fine since it aerates well except u dnt have to water during the winter when soil is moist.

(I dont advise ppl to use dirt. What works for me may not work for u.  Because i did an experiment. Whenever i water this ST, i use compost tea & top dressing dried leaves and grass cuttings. Again dnt do this.)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 09, 2019, 02:29:57 PM
I used pumice, decomposed granite as a potting mix.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 02:32:28 PM
I used pumice, decomposed granite as a potting mix.

U shud be good to water it everyday since its getting warmer. But best if its in-ground. If rootstock is a turpentine high chances it will be grown droopy.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 02:42:49 PM
Nice ST Paul ! Sweet tart is one of those cultivars that work well w turpentine rootstock here in SoCal
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 02:57:23 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.

Lucky you didn’t try those criollo mangos. They taste like a combo of milk of magnesia and cod liver oil yuuke!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 03:35:03 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

Sorry, I mixed up corriente with criollo, unless they are the same. Atkins has mature corriente tree.
How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.

Lucky you didn’t try those criollo mangos. They taste like a combo of milk of magnesia and cod liver oil yuuke!

Sorry, I mixed up corriente with criollo, unless they are the same. Atkins has mature corriente tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. I’ve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. I’ve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.

SO corriente could mean it could be a manila, kent, ataulfo seedling with no particular variety?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 06:42:16 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. I’ve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.

SO corriente could mean it could be a manila, kent, ataulfo seedling with no particular variety?

That’s correct
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on April 09, 2019, 08:30:03 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 09:11:09 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

It’s behind the cashier’s hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 09, 2019, 09:19:37 PM
As long as the tree looks healthy and is growing vigorously, it should make good rootstock. Many random mango seeds have grown well for me.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 09:24:03 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

It’s behind the cashier’s hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)

Where did u get those long pots?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 09:27:30 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

It’s behind the cashier’s hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)

Where did u get those long pots?

I bought them in long pots from Maddock nursery for $28 each. Unfortunately they don’t sell the pots individually.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 09, 2019, 10:50:49 PM
Theses guys make and sell the tall pots
https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)



Those atkins rootstocks grow pretty good.  Healthy trees. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 10:56:02 PM
Theses guys make and sell the tall pots
https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)



Those atkins rootstocks grow pretty good.  Healthy trees.

These wud be good for starting seedlings to develop taproot... thanks brad.


The lz u were selling on a long pot was  cp612r? Ty in advance
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 09, 2019, 11:09:28 PM
I have some TP815Rs, its a good medium sized pot.  Its a good one to start mango and avocado seeds.  The roots fill in that size pretty quickly.  They are at the bottom of that page, scroll down.

If you just want a few pots they will sell singles.  You just email them and they will send you a bill to your email.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on April 11, 2019, 02:00:26 AM
It's a little ugly, but I've had good luck with stacking cardboard half gallon milk containers (cut the bottom off of one and stick it in the other).  You get a tall container that avocados do great in, and when you plant you don't have to disturb the roots at all -- just put the whole thing in the planting hole, cut the bottom, slide it out from underneath, fill around with soil, and then slip the whole double-height container off the top.

Edited to add: mango seeds sometimes do well in these, and sometimes not.  Really big seeds don't fit, but smaller ones do well.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on April 11, 2019, 02:07:43 AM
Even with the tall pot, I would pain the insides with MicroKote or something similar. Everything I've grown in MicroKoted pots has taken off like rocket ships. Zero root spin in these pots.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:13:18 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 11, 2019, 02:52:22 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 11, 2019, 03:20:31 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)

Let it fruit till its a size of a pea. Then u remove the pea-sized mango.


If u take out flower now. Chances are it will try to re-flower...

I know simon talked about this. Use the search button for a more descriptive post.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 11:26:39 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 11:28:10 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.

Thank you sir appreciate your help, I tried the search but it brought me to the last page of this post.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BonsaiBeast on April 11, 2019, 12:21:59 PM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.

Actually, you're going to want to search "troll" and "no life" for the answer to that question.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
lol How are your plants doing?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BonsaiBeast on April 11, 2019, 02:18:37 PM
lol How are your plants doing?

They're still small of course haha, so is the way of the Garcinia.

But I got a few of them in the ground. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:23:10 PM
Tell me about it, I have a new trick recommended by a friend, I don't want to hijack this thread so I will message you about it if you are interested. I am currently experimenting with it early days..
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 11, 2019, 02:29:27 PM
For the blooms, just leave them for now as gozp mentioned and you can remove them when they are pea to marble size. Alternatively, if your average nightly lows are 62F or above, you can remove the blooms/fruit regardless of the size of the fruit. When you remove the blooms/fruit, cut below where the panicle started and above a node facing the direction where you want a future branch to be.

If the flower panicles becomes too heavy and starts to cause the stem to droop, you can cut about half the panicle off to relieve some of the weight.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:51:34 PM
For the blooms, just leave them for now as gozp mentioned and you can remove them when they are pea to marble size. Alternatively, if your average nightly lows are 62F or above, you can remove the blooms/fruit regardless of the size of the fruit. When you remove the blooms/fruit, cut below where the panicle started and above a node facing the direction where you want a future branch to be.

If the flower panicles becomes too heavy and starts to cause the stem to droop, you can cut about half the panicle off to relieve some of the weight.

Simon

Thanks Simon, I think we live pretty close so far the nights are just below 60F, so I will wait a little longer in that case. I just did approach graft using manila rootstock that is the branch you see in the picture. I am trying to make a copy a of my Pina Colada and OS after reading about florida rootstocks in this post. I am hoping to visit brad in the coming months to pick up some more tips, I am new to mango ..
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 11, 2019, 08:05:42 PM
If anyone here has experience fruiting mangoes it is likely they have encountered internal breakdown issues, especially if applying nitrogen and potassium rich fertilizers. It is also likely that some experience salt burn issues in the summer time if you are growing in clay rich soil and irrigating with municipal Colorado River water.

Gypsum can help with both of these issues, and I have a source for free gypsum for pickup in the East County San Diego region.

If you are interested, send me a PM and I can give you the info, but the gypsum will only be available for the next few days, after that it will be gone.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Exoticfruits on April 13, 2019, 03:20:10 AM
Hello,

I just joined this site not too long ago and just wondering if you have a suggestion to cut off 1/2 of the 3 flower panicles or cut 1 or 2 panicles and just leave one? (pic enclosed)  This Cat Hoa Loc mango tree was planted a little over a year and is 5ft tall with skinny trunk. Last year I cut off the flowering at the top, hoping it will grow taller. But it didn't :( .
AVG temp in OC  is  57F  to 76F.
Thanks for your help.  Steven

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYm0PGmH/20190412-183339.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYm0PGmH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Rwh8RD/20190412-183432.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Rwh8RD)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 13, 2019, 11:55:20 AM
Those are big panicles and are weighing Dow the branches. You can remove 2/3 of each panicle. If you completely remove two panicles and leave one, the tree will likely re bloom beneath your cut.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Exoticfruits on April 13, 2019, 04:25:48 PM
Thank you Simon for your prompt reply.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on April 14, 2019, 12:43:04 PM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)

Let it fruit till its a size of a pea. Then u remove the pea-sized mango.


If u take out flower now. Chances are it will try to re-flower...

I know simon talked about this. Use the search button for a more descriptive post.


Usually removing the flowers this early would result in new flowers, but it's been so hit that my trees are mainly pushing out all leaves. It may be worth a shot if you are impatient

I personally would wait... but I have a large orchard to obsess over and can find lots of other plants to distract me.

If I had to stare at that set of flowers every day I probably would pinch some off and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 14, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Pinching flowers at this time will give you mix results. You’ll be lucky if you get 50/50 ( bloom new growth) even so the ratio of fruits setting is very low.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 17, 2019, 03:30:30 PM
Is this the right way to pinch off flower?  according to the video, he pinch off the entire panicle, 2 to 3 leaves below it. (skip to 2:40 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQ3GnBLjYw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQ3GnBLjYw)

-James
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:11:49 PM
I recently planted 16/1 mango in-ground recently.
As u can see i put 25 gal pot and torned the bottom pot to encourage roots not to go through the sideways (at least for the pot's coverage).

It would be interesting to see how it grows year by year.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjjJ13VG/20190421-095158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjjJ13VG)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:27:27 PM
Taralay on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/Vrmj28D6/20190421-095142.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vrmj28D6)

Guava on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3c7PF1y/20190421-171609.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3c7PF1y)

Os on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/kB4yn79R/20190421-171836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kB4yn79R)

Kathy on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/LqdkBfPj/20190421-171843.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqdkBfPj)

M4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/SnY7MVny/20190421-171848.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnY7MVny)

Pina colada on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/kD7cpxpc/20190421-171856.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kD7cpxpc)

Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBNkBbCh/20190421-171911.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBNkBbCh)


Phoenix on turp(pot)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bsB9r4NC/20190421-171941.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsB9r4NC)

Pina colada on turp (pot)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZDNWJ0v/20190421-172044.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZDNWJ0v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 21, 2019, 08:31:18 PM
Great job Paul. Perfect example of what cultivars work on turpentine. All of our guavas died in turpentine on on Manila type rootstock (carabao) it’s vigorous
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:35:05 PM
Coco cream seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz/20190421-171703.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz)


Honey kiss seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs/20190421-171707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs)

 2 e4 on left to mid, right pina colada seedlings

(https://i.postimg.cc/t771JJZb/20190421-171712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t771JJZb)

Orange sherbet turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD/20190421-172032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD)

E4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/9w4zng50/20190421-172037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9w4zng50)

Honey kiss turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw/20190421-172104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw)

Sweet tart turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54/20190421-172113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54)

Lemon zest on carabao

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXfM31dV/20190421-172124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXfM31dV)

Peach cobbler(formerly 2in1) on manila -2years old pineapple pleasure graft died

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb/20190421-172132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb)


Pugged lemon meringue on manila - did not like the way ppk was growing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt/20190421-172148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt)

Corriente with some grafts

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ/20190421-172159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:36:48 PM
Great job Paul. Perfect example of what cultivars work on turpentine. All of our guavas died in turpentine on on Manila type rootstock (carabao) it’s vigorous

I had 2 buttercream, 2 guavas from Lynn that died on me last uear on turpentines. So far so good. Some turpentines work here in my experience. However, manila or some specific seedlings work better than turps.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:42:46 PM
Its very tough to grow mangoes especially in my area. A few branches were infected with antrancnose.

My interventions was to cut/ remove the infected part. Scrub neem oil and turmeric powder. Then seal it with iv organics paint.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on April 21, 2019, 11:46:43 PM
Its very tough to grow mangoes especially in my area. A few branches were infected with antrancnose.

My interventions was to cut/ remove the infected part. Scrub neem oil and turmeric powder. Then seal it with iv organics paint.

Turmeric powder?  Interesting -- never heard of that being useful to deal with plant infections.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ATNNavy on April 29, 2019, 05:47:27 PM
Hello all,

New to the Forum. Here are a few late afternoon pictures. Tree was bought from TopTropical in Apr. 2017. Don't really know to much about specific growing techniques. Hope to learn from you everyone here. Thanks for your time. Be easy on the feedback and criticism on current pictures posted.

Respectfully,
Noriega

Coconut Cream on mangifera.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kk94Z8kX/IMG-5727.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Kk94Z8kX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/236V0hMC/IMG-5729.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/236V0hMC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8fjcsgM7/IMG-5730.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8fjcsgM7)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ATNNavy on May 06, 2019, 09:20:08 AM
I wanted to get some advice on pruning times and upkeep? I read most of thread up to current. Also, right now tree has white grubs. I'm thinking about putting "milky spore" but scared to commit. Don't really know side affects for allergy or will cause it to bring other pests? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on June 12, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
Coco cream seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz/20190421-171703.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz)


Honey kiss seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs/20190421-171707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs)

 2 e4 on left to mid, right pina colada seedlings

(https://i.postimg.cc/t771JJZb/20190421-171712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t771JJZb)

Orange sherbet turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD/20190421-172032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD)

E4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/9w4zng50/20190421-172037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9w4zng50)

Honey kiss turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw/20190421-172104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw)

Sweet tart turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54/20190421-172113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54)

Lemon zest on carabao

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXfM31dV/20190421-172124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXfM31dV)

Peach cobbler(formerly 2in1) on manila -2years old pineapple pleasure graft died

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb/20190421-172132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb)


Pugged lemon meringue on manila - did not like the way ppk was growing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt/20190421-172148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt)

Corriente with some grafts

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ/20190421-172159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ)

may I ask where dis you get the honey kiss from? been looking for a honey seedling. Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on June 21, 2019, 01:52:48 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 21, 2019, 01:59:31 PM
You can plant several close together and keep the winners.  Im doing some of that here.  Plant 2 or 3 trees in a hole and strongest survives etc.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on June 21, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
you would  plant multiple seeds to pick the strongest seedling but not because fear of failed graft.....once you pick the strong one and let it grow..... top work it and  multiple new branches should emerge graft a  couple and you should have a couple branches to spare.   I got lucky all 3 took but even if it didnt you see I had back up. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzvW18X/received-1903985876575567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzvW18X)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf/received-286408538672712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on June 21, 2019, 07:45:07 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay

You wouldnt have to start over as long as the rootstock is healthy.it would likely send out new branches somewhere below the failed graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 21, 2019, 09:27:00 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay

Hey Clay,

I plant lots of seedlings close together, about 1-2 feet apart and select the strongest ones to graft. Ive been doing some experimenting and it’s really best to plant the seedlings and let them grow for several years until they get a thick trunk with nice scaffold branches before topworking.

If scions are limited or you don’t want the troubles of topworking a tree or bark grafting, then you can graft the small saplings at about 1 month old or you can do epicotyl grafting which gives me near 100% success but your grafted  sapling will flower and slow down it’s growth rate significantly. It is much easier to do a single graft compared to the multiple grafts required for topworking a tree but the growth is significantly slower.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 22, 2019, 05:18:18 PM
Hi everyone,

I finally moved to Dana Point and I am looking for a mango that does well here in a container. It seems like Pickering might be the best bet? How would nam doc mai do? Or is there another variety you recommend?

I might be able to put it in the ground and espalier it against a brick wall. That would help keep it warmer by radiating heat off the wall, but that area only gets about 6 hours of direct soon a day. I was thinking if going a pomegranate there instead.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 22, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
pickering is a good choice if you want to keep it in a pot but mangos grow really slow here and I wouldn’t be too concerned about selecting a condo type mango. Even a vigorous grower like Sweet Tart will be kept in check if it’s in a pot. The yearly flowering/fruiting caused by our cold weather significantly slows down  the growth rate.

Nam Doc Mai is another good choice but again I would probably go with Sweet Tart just because it will establish faster and I much prefer the flavor of ST.

I recommend against planting Condo type Mangos in SoCal unless you really want a tiny tree that will hold very few fruit.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 22, 2019, 11:53:07 PM
Thank you Simon. Sweet tart looks really interesting. I do like mango with a little spiciness. Is there one like that you recommend?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 23, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
Have you tried any of the Indian Mango varieties like Kesar? Kesar has Indian resin spice and sets fruit for me even though I have lots of fungus in my yard.

There are other varieties with spice like Carrie that also sets fruit well in SoCal, not sure about your exact location though.

I would not recommend Ice Cream because it grows too slowly and gets very chlorotic when it’s cool.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 23, 2019, 04:47:06 PM
I just moved to Dana point up on the hill about a mile from the ocean. I have not tried any mangoes yet since I came from Seattle. I have room (not really hah) for one tree. Trying to find the right one.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on June 23, 2019, 06:10:42 PM
I just moved to Dana point up on the hill about a mile from the ocean. I have not tried any mangoes yet since I came from Seattle. I have room (not really hah) for one tree. Trying to find the right one.

That's going to be a tough location -- it's really cold for mangos in Dana Point both in the winter (deep, cold water offshore so lower lows than surrounding areas) and summer (marine layer, coastal breeze).  Not that the trees won't grow, but it might be tough to get fruit to set and ripen.  Still worth a shot, but maybe you want a cultivar that has small fruits and is known for setting in colder areas.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 23, 2019, 06:59:37 PM
Or maybe a greenhouse could also help. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 26, 2019, 12:54:43 AM
Or maybe a greenhouse could also help.

Any suggestions? And greenhouse isn't an option unfortunately. No room :(
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 26, 2019, 01:40:53 AM
If you are not dead set on a mango, cherimoya should do well there.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 26, 2019, 12:39:35 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on June 27, 2019, 02:30:23 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 28, 2019, 12:18:14 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 11:12:05 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.

I got a lot of stuff in my backyard. First year here so things are relatively young, although I spent more money to buy older trees and vines in some cases. I have: 4 different types of passion fruit (red rover, frederick, banana, and purple possum), 2 low chill cherries (mini royal and royal lee),  strawberry tree (Muntingia calabura), blue java banana, mulberry, hardy kiwi, white nectarine, nectaplum, aprium, 200+ strawberries, Australian finger lime, mandarins, 20+ varieties of figs, 4 types of pomegranates, raspberry, blackberry, logan berry, blueberries, 3 types of ground cherries, 2 types of giant gooseberries, and various veggies.

For some reason, I am really fixated on growing a mango. I love a good mango. It might be my favorite fruit. But store bought ones are just so meh.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 11:14:37 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
Villaseñor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 29, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
Just buy a manila seedling tree (not grafted) and let it grow for many years.  Once it reaches a mature size then graft it with top tier varieties.  Don't bother planting grafted trees IMO theres not enough heat units in your area and you will be wasting years on all the flowers it will produce before its ready to hold fruit.  That close to the ocean and you will probably only get foliar flushes on a grafted tree for a few months a year.  Planting a seedling tree will completely avoid having your tree waste energy on flowering before it its ready to carry fruit.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 29, 2019, 12:24:32 PM
I agree with Brad, we’ve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom it’s first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you don’t want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 29, 2019, 01:52:35 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
Villaseñor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?
I would ask him about his opinion on growing a mango in prime real estate for a cherimoya.

The La Verne 'Manila' trees are seedlings of manila, and therefore unreliable sources of genetics, they don't necessarily come true to seed, so there may be variance.

For any guarantees of a variety you should graft a tree, but as suggested, some polyembryonic varieties come true(ish) to seed.

You can use the Gary Zill method of crushing the leaves of a juvenile mango seedling to smell the sap and compare it to the dominant aroma of the parent mango, and then eliminate the rest of the sprouts. This method is currently being used to help select true to type seedlings from polyembryonic varieties.

I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 03:12:03 PM
I agree with Brad, we’ve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom it’s first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you don’t want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon

I'm game to try grafting. I'm growing some brown turkey fig rootstock to graft various col de dame varieties on.

Where do you recommend to buy the sweet tart and Manila seedling?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
Quote
I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.

I have never tried a cherimoya before. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 29, 2019, 04:16:07 PM
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, I’ll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 30, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, I’ll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon

Would it be advisable to buy a 3 gallon sweet tart from top tropicals?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 30, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Atropicalfruitforum.com+%22top+tropicals%22

There's been some good reviews, but also some terrible ones.
Something about rampant mislabeling of trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 30, 2019, 05:24:26 PM
I’ve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

It’s better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 01, 2019, 12:12:55 PM
I’ve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

It’s better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon

I have very little room for a planted tree. Maybe 1 or 2 spots if I remove other bushes. I was going to attempt these in containers. I was thinking to plant the LaVern Manilla in ground as my rootstock and getting the Sweet tart for a container. I have extra space that is concrete where I have a lot of my potted figs.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 02, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
Simon, what would be a lazy routine to fertilize seedlings please, I read an article about half a cup of ammonium sulfate every month, would you do that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 02, 2019, 10:58:34 PM
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 03, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon

Thank you Simon. I got a Sweet Tart and will wait for the LeVerne mangoes to come to Home Depot to experiment with grafting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TBedeezy on July 10, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
Spent the last few hours reading up on this thread and feel a lot more comfortable with my plan of planting seeds and letting them develop. So much helpful information as our climate is a bit unique for mango trees. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 10, 2019, 06:17:32 PM
Hi Simon,
I’ve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on July 10, 2019, 08:50:22 PM
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 17, 2019, 07:15:56 PM
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.

I have a couple Alphonso seedlings and I was wondering if it's worth letting grow without grafting to see if I could get a decent close variety, I bet it's common in India, do you know how close to an Alphonso the seedling will be? :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 19, 2019, 03:45:52 PM
Hi Simon,
I’ve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.

Thanks everyone,

I’m glad members are trying out some of these techniques I mention in this thread.

FV Fruit Freak,

When I plant my mango seeds, I keep them in full sun so that the soil heats up faster which makes them sprout faster. Also, by planting them in full sun, you won’t have to acclimate them to full sun.

If your seedlings are currently in the shade, you will have to gradually acclimate them to full sun by putting them in part sun and then gradually giving them more and more full sun. Cloudy days are great for acclimating seedlings. Protect them from the sun especially between 11 am and 2pm when the sun is directly overhead.

Alphonso is Monoembryonic and and I have no idea how it was selected. The more rounds of selection a variety has gone through, the more set the traits are. With re arrangement of the chromosomes from sexual reproduction, there is a good chance of getting something completely different tasting than compared to the Aphonso.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 20, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mango_Seed on July 20, 2019, 09:12:00 PM
Why are turpentine mangos used in Florida for rootstock to begin with? I don't know, maybe because it hot outside working in the grove & you drink the juice out of 30 of them everyday? With all those seeds left over you might as well plant them.

I did however find this study on rootstocks from down under that might be of interest to you:

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/43/6/article-p1720.xml

I saw a post about turpentine not having a big tap root & and a video about air layering not being popular in Florida because you need a tap root with all the hurricanes. Not sure what to make of that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 21, 2019, 12:23:44 AM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

A picture will help to diagnose the problem. Did you damage the roots at all? If it’s getting wrinkly because of lack of water, it can spring back pretty quickly.

If your seedlings are getting a dark lesion close to the soil surface at the interface of the sprout and the roots, you may be using too rich a potting soil. Try something that has more inorganic matter like sand or pumice. You can also look for a good fast draining soil mix or cactus mix if you tend to overwater.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 21, 2019, 12:31:29 AM
Why are turpentine mangos used in Florida for rootstock to begin with? I don't know, maybe because it hot outside working in the grove & you drink the juice out of 30 of them everyday? With all those seeds left over you might as well plant them.

I did however find this study on rootstocks from down under that might be of interest to you:

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/43/6/article-p1720.xml

I saw a post about turpentine not having a big tap root & and a video about air layering not being popular in Florida because you need a tap root with all the hurricanes. Not sure what to make of that?

Turpentine rootstock works excellent for Florida. It is adaptable to high salinity, some standing water and high fruit production. It just doesn’t perform as well in SoCal.

I have a couple threads discussing Mango rootstocks and there are rootstock selection that are productive as small, medium and large canopy size trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 21, 2019, 07:13:12 PM
Hi Simon,
I’ve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.

Thanks everyone,

I’m glad members are trying out some of these techniques I mention in this thread.

FV Fruit Freak,

When I plant my mango seeds, I keep them in full sun so that the soil heats up faster which makes them sprout faster. Also, by planting them in full sun, you won’t have to acclimate them to full sun.

If your seedlings are currently in the shade, you will have to gradually acclimate them to full sun by putting them in part sun and then gradually giving them more and more full sun. Cloudy days are great for acclimating seedlings. Protect them from the sun especially between 11 am and 2pm when the sun is directly overhead.

Alphonso is Monoembryonic and and I have no idea how it was selected. The more rounds of selection a variety has gone through, the more set the traits are. With re arrangement of the chromosomes from sexual reproduction, there is a good chance of getting something completely different tasting than compared to the Aphonso.

Simon

You da man, THANKS Simon!!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 22, 2019, 08:40:27 AM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

A picture will help to diagnose the problem. Did you damage the roots at all? If it’s getting wrinkly because of lack of water, it can spring back pretty quickly.

If your seedlings are getting a dark lesion close to the soil surface at the interface of the sprout and the roots, you may be using too rich a potting soil. Try something that has more inorganic matter like sand or pumice. You can also look for a good fast draining soil mix or cactus mix if you tend to overwater.

Simon

Please note the darkening at the base, and the rotting of the embryo. It's Turpentine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59CZd8gq/IMG-1190.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ricshaw on July 22, 2019, 10:18:34 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?

YouTube
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 22, 2019, 10:58:02 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?

Im currently starting a batch of ataulfo and kent seeds. Ive never had the success (as of now I have root growth from 100% of the seeds in about 7 days) with other methods. Using the plastic wrap is more useful because the inorganic material wont mold. Ive done the moist paper towel and it works but ive had lots of trouble with mold.  I got the idea from
https://youtu.be/Rwfn5BmaLdw . If you are doing 1 or 2 seeds you might want to follow his method completely but if you are going a lot of seeds and space is an issue the method im using might be better.


Materials
Mango with viable seed (has not been cold treated or sterilized) my seeds were hot water treated from mexico
Hydrogen Peroxide
Water
Spray bottle
Bowl
Ziploc sandwich bag
Box

Procedure:
1) remove mango seed from husk
2) combine 1:1 ratio of hydrogen peroxide (3% solution) with water in a bowl
3) add mango seed allow 24hrs
4) rinse mango seed in water
5) take plastic wrap and create a ring. Fit ring over the mango seed.
6) take plastic wrap and a 1. 5” diameter length that covers the bottom of the sandwich bag
7) lay length of plastic wrap at the bottom of sandwich bag
8 ) lay mango seed with plastic ring on the plastic wrap taking care to orient the seed correctly
9) spray with water a couple times.
10) seal bag and put in box
11) close box to keep out of sunlight
12) keep in a warm place with no sunlight/light
13) check them after 3 days to check for rot and any initial root development the bags should not show condensation

You should have root growth by 10 days.



Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 22, 2019, 11:02:25 AM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 11:40:29 AM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)

Do you take them out of their husks?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 22, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)
Going by the pic he does.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)

Do you take them out of their husks?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 22, 2019, 12:40:19 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 12:43:42 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 22, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.

Almost all my Kent seeds from Costco that have been planted over the last month or so have sprouted, FYI.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 22, 2019, 02:27:48 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.

I got the Kent mangos at Costco and have sprouted four of them in the last couple of weeks. It takes about 7 - 10 days for the shoots to emerge. I did wrap them in wet paper towels and let them sit in a ZipLoc bag on the kitchen counter for several days first, until I saw the little root tail starting to form. Then I planted them and the sprouts came up a few days later. The first to sprout are nearly a foot tall now. I plan to use them to practice learning to graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 22, 2019, 02:48:02 PM
I'm game to try grafting. I'm growing some brown turkey fig rootstock to graft various col de dame varieties on.

Where do you recommend to buy the sweet tart and Manila seedling?

mango and fig are total difference challenge to grow in your area. Listen to us when we say don't waste your time growing grafted mango from 3 ft pots; been there done that. Buy seedling or grow from seeds such as Kent fruits sold in July, August. Kent seedling will grow fast and vigorous, and perfect for grafting when 8 - 10 ft tall in 4 years.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 07:14:25 PM
I found a Manila mango Tuesday at Home Depot and will grow out some Kent seeds as well.

(https://i.postimg.cc/KR7DLB0n/20190722-152725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KR7DLB0n)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2nFyGHL/20190722-152732.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2nFyGHL)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 23, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I used to de-husk the seeds , placed in bag, 85F oven and all of that, then started the germinated seedlings in pots. Now I just do this directly on ground where I want a mango tree permanently planted: In 80 to 90F summer plant a geranium for protection from strong sun, then place a seed or 2 (not de-husked) on the ground (not in or under) shaded by the geranium (the roly poly bugs or others will eat the de-husked tender seed), then cover the seed with stuffs from compost bin, leaves,  or fresh kitchen trash, 3 or 4" high pile.  Keep the pile moisted. In couple weeks a strong vigorous mango seedling, and in a few years if the fruits are not worth to keep  then I graft.

Seedling directly on soil grows faster than in pot.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 23, 2019, 10:47:22 PM
I damaged 2 of the 3 seeds trying to get them out. I assume these are too damaged to germinate?


(https://i.postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5/20190723-185532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH/20190723-185534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw/20190723-185548.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW/20190723-185551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs/20190723-185558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 23, 2019, 11:23:57 PM
I’ve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. I’d just plant them and see what happens.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 24, 2019, 12:33:19 AM
I’ve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. I’d just plant them and see what happens.

Simon

Thanks Simon. Already planted 😄
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 24, 2019, 08:05:25 AM
I’ve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. I’d just plant them and see what happens.

Simon

I concur, especially when the dents are not on the side where the root and seedling would emerge.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: V on July 27, 2019, 01:58:31 PM
This is a great thread, very informative!

A couple of weeks ago I got two La Verne Manila seedling trees.
The potting soil La Verne uses for mango trees is very bad. My two trees had pure wood shavings in the bottom 80% of the pot. The pots were topped with wood chips and some traces of sand.
There were very little roots in the wood shavings and they were all black, probably rotting due to the lack of oxygen.
I discarded all of the potting soil and planted one of the trees in the ground and re-potted another one with a good potting mix.

Yesterday, I also planted two de-husked Kent mango seeds in pots.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 05:00:53 AM
Honey kiss on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/PNzvPHjH/20190729-205358.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNzvPHjH)

Pina colada on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH/20190729-223134.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6W9Y7cg/20190729-223459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6W9Y7cg)




Stakes werent needed before it fruited. Now that theres more weight, stakes are needed.


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 05:08:04 AM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 30, 2019, 09:38:01 AM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Do you think this person watered too often or not enough?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 30, 2019, 10:51:55 AM
I damaged 2 of the 3 seeds trying to get them out. I assume these are too damaged to germinate?


(https://i.postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5/20190723-185532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH/20190723-185534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw/20190723-185548.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW/20190723-185551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs/20190723-185558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs)

You don’t need to damage the husks by using a knife to pry them open. Just find the “fibery” part that runs  along the length of the husk, is you use your fingernails (or butter knife) and scrape along that fiber, you can usually find a small opening in the husk. Once I find that small opening/hole, I can usually jut pull the husk apart and open with my fingers without ever having to insert a knife into the husk.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on July 30, 2019, 11:10:16 AM
anything you can do if scion doesn't push?  I grafted it almost 3 months now.  It's nice and green still but seems like it's just chilling. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 30, 2019, 12:46:10 PM

You don’t need to damage the husks by using a knife to pry them open. Just find the “fibery” part that runs  along the length of the husk, is you use your fingernails (or butter knife) and scrape along that fiber, you can usually find a small opening in the husk. Once I find that small opening/hole, I can usually jut pull the husk apart and open with my fingers without ever having to insert a knife into the husk.

I use a butter knife to scrap all the pulp off and try to pry it open. I guess I will have to look more closely for an opening. Can't seem to find one. I have been using a new method of taking some vice grips on the edges to squeeze and create an opening along the edge then using the butter knife to split open.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 30, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Hey, you knew what I was going to say before I said it! At least you know what you’re getting yourself into.

Mangos naturally drop a lot of fruit and under watering could actually concentrate the flavors so maybe what your friend did, or didn’t do, was a blessing in disguise.

Nice selection of trees. Please keep us updated on how they taste!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sammmy on July 30, 2019, 05:12:39 PM
Those trees look like they are ready for phomopsis.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 06:46:37 PM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Hey, you knew what I was going to say before I said it! At least you know what you’re getting yourself into.

Mangos naturally drop a lot of fruit and under watering could actually concentrate the flavors so maybe what your friend did, or didn’t do, was a blessing in disguise.

Nice selection of trees. Please keep us updated on how they taste!

Simon

I wish they watered every darn day. LOL. We were hitting constant 100+ when I was out of the country.

I will be bring all varieties at Franks next mango tasting.


Here is a photo that i Uploaded last april of my pina colada


(https://i.postimg.cc/V0dN3d1M/Screenshot-20190730-154058-Chrome.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0dN3d1M)


Leaves as of now are lushier green than it was last Aprils thats with holding fruits.




(https://i.postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH/20190729-223134.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 01, 2019, 01:27:17 AM
Kathy holding 3 fruits before i left it had 13 holding.


(https://i.postimg.cc/R3G8vd1t/20190731-222417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3G8vd1t)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 12:10:55 AM
I got this beautiful Pickering on Friday. What tips can anyone give me on container mangoes in SoCal? I was going to put it in a 10 gallon fabric pot and use BX Promix (https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-bx-mycorrhizae/ (https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-bx-mycorrhizae/)) with osmocote. Will that work well for a mango?

(https://i.postimg.cc/yD4F6qwb/pickering.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD4F6qwb)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 12:47:17 AM
You’ve got the right idea. Give it a fast draining soil mix with slow release fertilizer. Potted Mangos will perform much better if given occasional applications of minors and trace, especially Iron, Zinc, Magnesium and Manganese.

Don’t over pot it, put it in a container that is slightly larger than its root mass. Once it fills in that pot with roots, up pot again with a slightly larger pot again.

In SoCal, mangos do most their growing in the the heat of the summer so you need to maximize growth between June-September by ensuring they are properly fertilized.

Right now is prime vegetative growing season for Mangos but since you just received your tree, you have to be very careful with over fertilizing. If you don’t disturb the roots much, you can use a mild fertilizer but if the plant was rootbound and you have to trim the roots, don’t fertilize it until it settles in.

This time of year, Mangos are very resilient with very little signs of diseases because the heat pushes growth and the growth out competes the fungal diseases and die back.

Now is also a great time to graft.

Unlike growing Mangos in Florida and other prime mango growing areas, you want your branches as vertical as possible.

One of the big mistakes SoCal mango growers do is to bend their branches horizontally. Horizontal growth will tend to flower and we don’t want that for young non established trees. Vertical growth has a slight less tendency to flower but only slightly. Everything you can do to tilt the growth towards vegetative growth instead of blooms will be that much better for your tree.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 01:01:17 AM
You’ve got the right idea. Give it a fast draining soil mix with slow release fertilizer. Potted Mangos will perform much better if given occasional applications of minors and trace, especially Iron, Zinc, Magnesium and Manganese.

Don’t over pot it, put it in a container that is slightly larger than its root mass. Once it fills in that pot with roots, up pot again with a slightly larger pot again.

In SoCal, mangos do most their growing in the the heat of the summer so you need to maximize growth between June-September by ensuring they are properly fertilized.

Right now is prime vegetative growing season for Mangos but since you just received your tree, you have to be very careful with over fertilizing. If you don’t disturb the roots much, you can use a mild fertilizer but if the plant was rootbound and you have to trim the roots, don’t fertilize it until it settles in.

This time of year, Mangos are very resilient with very little signs of diseases because the heat pushes growth and the growth out competes the fungal diseases and die back.

Now is also a great time to graft.

Unlike growing Mangos in Florida and other prime mango growing areas, you want your branches as vertical as possible.

One of the big mistakes SoCal mango growers do is to bend their branches horizontally. Horizontal growth will tend to flower and we don’t want that for young non established trees. Vertical growth has a slight less tendency to flower but only slightly. Everything you can do to tilt the growth towards vegetative growth instead of blooms will be that much better for your tree.

Simon

I have 5 gallon containers I can use now. It would be *maybe* twice the size of the rootball. I also have some Dyna Gro I have been using on other plants: https://dyna-gro.com/product/liquid-grow/ I could use that now as well. And some worm tea as well.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 01:23:13 AM
The 5 gallon should be perfect. You might have to re pot in a month or two but it will grow better than growing directly in a giant pot. The worm casting tea will be great. Wait until you see the roots before using the Dyna Gro.

You can pot your tree and if the roots are fine and you don’t see any wilting about a week or two after potting, it should be safe to use fertilizer. If your tree is showing any signs of wilting, do not fertilize.

Since you just received your tree, you should gradually acclimate it to full sun.


Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 02:01:27 AM
The 5 gallon should be perfect. You might have to re pot in a month or two but it will grow better than growing directly in a giant pot. The worm casting tea will be great. Wait until you see the roots before using the Dyna Gro.

You can pot your tree and if the roots are fine and you don’t see any wilting about a week or two after potting, it should be safe to use fertilizer. If your tree is showing any signs of wilting, do not fertilize.

Since you just received your tree, you should gradually acclimate it to full sun.


Simon

Thank you for the feedback. I will up-pot tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rnguyen on August 04, 2019, 10:02:55 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt/7-CA7-A2-FD-2417-43-F7-9-DD1-7988-D12870-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt)

Should I be thinning down the number of fruit?  I have about 25 mangoes.  The tree is about 6 feet with most of the fruit on the maha chanok graft.  The other is Carrie.  I recently grafted honey kiss on one branch, if you’re wondering where all the vegetation went.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on August 04, 2019, 01:40:46 PM
With all the energy being pushed into the new scion, there's not going to be much left for the fruit. Or if the fruit is taking all the energy, then there won't be much left for the scion.

Look at it this way, the leaves that were removed are your energy source, and the fruit is the scions are energy users. I would remove all the fruit, because without sufficient vegetation to produce sugars, the fruit will not be all that impressive anyway.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 11:37:20 PM
Ideally, thinning should occur when the fruit are much smaller, like marble to thumb size.  Some of your fruit look like they are more than half grown in which case you should keep the larger fruit and remove the runts.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: alangr088 on August 05, 2019, 01:30:45 AM
I had this scenario you are going thru RNGuyen. I was waiting for late July to remove all the fruit from my Manila seedling. I removed all the fruit (to get vegetative growth) and a grafting I did in April of PPK just came to life which I thought was dead. Pretty crazy how it lasted such a long time without any activity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz/AA910235-63-CA-4652-A254-22-E6965769-D9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangomanic12 on August 05, 2019, 11:25:11 AM
Rick i would listen to Oolie, remove all the fruit. If you want any vegetative growth next year....i would.
I think your tree is too small to hold all that fruit. I'm interested to see a pic of that tree next year at this time. If it grows great for you, if it doesn't lesson learned.
Let the tree fill out more before you let it hold fruit.


Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 05, 2019, 01:49:05 PM
Potted up my Pickering today:


(https://i.postimg.cc/dhddJypK/mango.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhddJypK)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 05, 2019, 06:26:35 PM
The Pickering looks really nice. I forgot to mention that if you’re using new potting soil that already has added nutrients/fertilizer, there is no need to fertilize, usually for 1-2 months depending on how much you water.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RodneyS on August 05, 2019, 07:31:22 PM
I had this scenario you are going thru RNGuyen. I was waiting for late July to remove all the fruit from my Manila seedling. I removed all the fruit (to get vegetative growth) and a grafting I did in April of PPK just came to life which I thought was dead. Pretty crazy how it lasted such a long time without any activity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz/AA910235-63-CA-4652-A254-22-E6965769-D9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz)

How much of a brown color did you see in the scion?  I have a peach cobbler that's turning brown.  Gives me hope and may delay me from grafting anew underneath the older graft
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 05, 2019, 09:49:34 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt/7-CA7-A2-FD-2417-43-F7-9-DD1-7988-D12870-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt)

Should I be thinning down the number of fruit?  I have about 25 mangoes.  The tree is about 6 feet with most of the fruit on the maha chanok graft.  The other is Carrie.  I recently grafted honey kiss on one branch, if you’re wondering where all the vegetation went.

Thanks.

Isn't Maha fruits starting all green and they turned to red/purple about a month before riping? I would pick off the smaller and deformed fruits. What rootstock you have here?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rnguyen on August 10, 2019, 03:28:23 PM
Thanks Simon, Sapote, Oolie, alangr088, mangomanic12 for your advice.  I went ahead and took off all fruit.  The new graft is pushing well and I'm getting vegetative growth on the existing grafts.  I'm looking forward to next year.

Sapote - it's a laverne tree so probably manilla.



Rick i would listen to Oolie, remove all the fruit. If you want any vegetative growth next year....i would.
I think your tree is too small to hold all that fruit. I'm interested to see a pic of that tree next year at this time. If it grows great for you, if it doesn't lesson learned.
Let the tree fill out more before you let it hold fruit.


Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 03:40:39 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: alangr088 on August 10, 2019, 08:47:25 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)

Aside from these trees being too young to hold fruit and the growth getting stunted...is there any other negatives? Can the tree possibly just die due to exhaustion or anything like that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 10:22:41 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)

Aside from these trees being too young to hold fruit and the growth getting stunted...is there any other negatives? Can the tree possibly just die due to exhaustion or anything like that?

There is a high possibliity it could get stunted or for worst die.

However, i have been feeding my trees with heavy organic materials to lessen its chance to get stunted or even die.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 10:24:44 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/1Vt0nLqC/20190810-191506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1Vt0nLqC)


I have about 15 sweet tarts on a turpentine roootstock  & i dont like the way its growing. After i harvest my sweet tarts, i will be pugging my treee for a better symmetrical growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 10, 2019, 10:43:45 PM
I’ve seen multiple examples of people letting their trees hold too much fruit when young and many of the trees have died. If you fertilize properly and don’t overwater in Winter, the tree can easily survive.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 11:07:26 PM
I’ve seen multiple examples of people letting their trees hold too much fruit when young and many of the trees have died. If you fertilize properly and don’t overwater in Winter, the tree can easily survive.

Simon


I concur 100%.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 10, 2019, 11:31:30 PM
Don't Let young mango trees hold fruit. Most people want immediate gratification but success is for those that are tolerant and willing to wait.

In California, we have slow and poor growth as it is why give the young tree early stress of production? 

Be Patient. So many impatient growers.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 11, 2019, 01:07:46 AM
Don't Let young mango trees hold fruit. Most people want immediate gratification but success is for those that are tolerant and willing to wait.

In California, we have slow and poor growth as it is why give the young tree early stress of production? 

Be Patient. So many impatient growers.

Johnny

I like to keep my trees small by letting them fruit and high possibility of them gettng stunted.

We shall see, im conducting an experiment on nutrients based on plant needs.

I'll post photos when i harvest all my fruits & on late fall.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 12, 2019, 09:52:04 PM
No caption needed. 😂

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2DkfmkK/Screenshot-20190812-185044-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2DkfmkK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKSBss6S/20190812-184653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKSBss6S)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on August 13, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
IMO mangoes do exceptionally well during summer in Southern California whether in pots or in ground regardless of rootstock. It is the week long low 30s that get them. Here are my M4 in ground and buttercream in pot  exploding  :) They were originally in 3 gallon planted early June.

(https://i.postimg.cc/N93GQ0MP/C127-C2-C4-423-D-451-E-B4-E6-837079-AB7-CD2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N93GQ0MP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMm25y6v/E44-C83-E5-B4-BC-439-C-B15-D-AE0-DCF07-F22-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMm25y6v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 15, 2019, 01:52:11 PM
Yes, all Mangos should be exploding with growth at this time of year regardless of rootstock. If you haven’t fertilized much yet, now is a good time to fertilize and push growth. No need to worry about excess Nitrogen inhibiting flower initiation in Winter. Now is a great time for minors and trace minerals as well, if it’s not already in your fertilizer.


If your tree is holding fruit, don’t give too much fertilizer at once, especially on hot days because your fruit can crack.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 16, 2019, 07:32:42 AM
My Sweet Tart mango tree is finally flushing now. Last year in 2018 it only had one growth flush. Hopefully this year I will get two from this tree. Time will tell.

(https://i.postimg.cc/68C6xv01/Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Flush-8-13-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68C6xv01)
Sweet Tart Mango Tree (8-13-2019)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2019, 11:48:17 AM
Excellent looking Sweet Tart tree! I love how bushy it is on top. Sweet Tart even performs great on Florida rootstock. You should be getting fruit on it soon. Please keep us updated on the progress of your beautiful tree.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 16, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
My sweet tart on who knows what rootstock from brokaw looked good for a few years but looks terrible after this winter.  The 2 year old ST seedling looks better. 

Manilla seedlng
(https://i.postimg.cc/PLrmtSJ1/20190811-100207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLrmtSJ1)

Sweet tart seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX0LWkDS/20190811-100218.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX0LWkDS)

Taralay from florida.  This tree has been through a few winters and still looks erect and healthy.  It may be a good one for so cal.
(https://i.postimg.cc/n9Q4yMz5/20190811-100331.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9Q4yMz5)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on August 16, 2019, 04:18:34 PM
While checking out the new growth on my Choc Anon tree from Florida (presumably grafted on Turpentine rootsock), I noticed the branches are drooping over instead of standing erect.  Is this the infamous drooping phenomenon that we observe with some mango varietals on turpentine in SoCA?  Or is there something else of which I should be concerned?  This is the third growth flush from this mango in ground, but the first that I have observed this behavior.  Unlike the other ~20 in-ground mangos, it looks like I am getting some flower panicles shooting on a couple branches as well.  Choc Anon doing its thing?


(https://i.postimg.cc/0Kd0mGK3/IMG-2621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Kd0mGK3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jnrhL32P/IMG-2622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnrhL32P)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangomanic12 on August 16, 2019, 05:23:31 PM
SHV ,looks like typical droopy growth. Stop wasting time buying Florida rootstock trees especially if you are going to plant in-ground. My bet is that plant will just about stay that height in 2 years or wither away and die.....just being real with you!!!
Grow rootstock from a good mango seed or purchase a manila mango and graft onto it later.
Do your research on these boards you will find that not many people have success with Turpentine rootstock from FL.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2019, 05:47:41 PM
Yup, that’s the typical droopy growth. You can stake up all the branches but you’ll need a lot of stakes.

Like Mangomaniac12 suggested, it’s best to plant some seedlings and top work them once they get large.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on August 17, 2019, 12:02:20 AM
Thanks guys. Unfortunately, I discovered this forum a bit late in the game, after several Florida trees were already purchased, struggled with, killed a couple, then searched online for guidance.   After spending more hours than I care to admit reading old threads, discovering how easy it was to graft, I planted several Home Depot specials (Manila) as well as other seedlings of various mango varieties acquired from Exotica last year. The seedlings were fairly priced and have grown gangbusters  since planted. The difference in growth compared to Florida grafts is shocking. I’m letting them establish strong root systems this year, then plan to graft next year.  I have already grafted some older seedlings that have traveled with me from a previous residence.  My FL grafts that appear to be fairly robust are Peach Cobbler, Pineapple pleasure, cotton Candy and Sweet Tart. I lost a Madam Francis, Lancetilla, and Fruit Punch.
My newest mango playground project includes 20 Ataulfo seedlings (planted today) and another 10 Kent seedlings (tomorrow) planted on my unused backhill. Hopefully they survive the gophers, rabbits, deer, winter chill, and every other obstacle we face in SD county backcountry.

(https://i.postimg.cc/V5RmWk4s/F6821034-FE03-4042-A9-D1-F95-FDC3-ADC33.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5RmWk4s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MotherofDragons on September 18, 2019, 09:44:27 AM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didn’t see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? I’m not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 04:14:33 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didn’t see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? I’m not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I don't believe there are any out of state growers of new Zill varieties that ship fruit to our state. It's too late for seed, as the season for any but the ultra-late is over (Keitt,Neelam).

Our season begins about now until February or so. I don't believe any in state growers are selling their fruit though. You may get lucky on seed.

There are many here living in similar areas to you specifically who have had excellent results with the turpentine rootstock on the varieties you are specifically interested in. I wouldn't be discouraged, you can always in-arch later.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MotherofDragons on September 18, 2019, 04:24:33 PM
Thank you. From my understanding shipping fruit into CA is a no-no. I strictly would only be looking for seed. I imagine due to the popularity of this thread and others (like the scion threads in BST)that we have at least a handful of CA growers who grow the Zill varieties. I was hoping one of them might have some seed for sale. I will just get some store bought ones for now and try my luck with those. I will also make a note on my calendar for next year; thanks for clueing me in on the mango season timing!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
No worries, gotta start somewhere, and from what I've read, the sooner you get seed in the ground the better.

It's actually legal to ship fruit into California, as long as it has been treated for fruit fly larvae. Which really isn't economical for most growers.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 08:07:15 PM
Thank you. From my understanding shipping fruit into CA is a no-no. I strictly would only be looking for seed. I imagine due to the popularity of this thread and others (like the scion threads in BST)that we have at least a handful of CA growers who grow the Zill varieties. I was hoping one of them might have some seed for sale. I will just get some store bought ones for now and try my luck with those. I will also make a note on my calendar for next year; thanks for clueing me in on the mango season timing!

Looks like you may still be in luck, as there is a Zill variety that fruits in September (in SFL).

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/zill-m-4 (https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/zill-m-4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 18, 2019, 09:16:51 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didn’t see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? I’m not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I actually don’t recommend LZ right now because it can have severe production and fungal issues. Also, I noticed that Kent, Haden and Tommy Atkins seems to perform better as a rootstock compared to Kent but that’s just at my location. As long as it’s growing well, it should make a good rootstock.

Florida Mangos May not be available but it’s worth a shot posting on the buy/sell forum for seeds. I believe the Florida season is pretty much over however.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 18, 2019, 09:27:33 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didn’t see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? I’m not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I don't believe there are any out of state growers of new Zill varieties that ship fruit to our state. It's too late for seed, as the season for any but the ultra-late is over (Keitt,Neelam).

Our season begins about now until February or so. I don't believe any in state growers are selling their fruit though. You may get lucky on seed.

There are many here who have had excellent results with the turpentine rootstock. I wouldn't be discouraged, you can always in-arch later.

Actually, there aren’t a lot of people that have had excellent results with (Florida) Turpentine rootstock trees. The people that have good results with them are generally more skilled and live in areas with more heat.

I have a thread or two on this forum and I have done some detective work and tracked down many of the people that claimed to have success with Florida Turpentine rootstock trees and after about two to three years, many of the trees were dead. I interviewed approximately 30 members, many of which had 10+ Florida Turpentine rootstock trees and was absolutely shocked at the death rate.

Yes, some vigorous varieties like VP, Sweet Tart, LZ will grow fine, even excellent on Florida Turpentine rootstock but try to grow a less vigorous variety or one that isn’t so disease resistant and you will find that they don’t grow well here.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 09:57:38 PM
True enough, my statement did not include appropriate hedging.

Most people live closer to the coast than MoD.

But MoD lives in the Inland Empire where it is very hot and dry, and the varieties she specifically mentioned are in the group which have shown to do well on Turpentine.

My advice in that post should be viewed as specific to the reader quoted, and I will edit it to clarify.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on October 31, 2019, 07:23:44 AM
Simon,

This is a great thread and I've learned a lot about the mango tree I just purchased.  I do have a question about flowering and temperature in young trees.  If flowering is preventing vegetative growth and flowering continues until the temperature reaches a certain minimum temperature, has anyone tried using an external heat source, like incandescent Christmas tree lights, at least during the weeks or months before the average night time lows approach the temperature that suppresses flowering? Might that inhibit re-flowering and allow the young trees to put out more flushes? 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 31, 2019, 03:12:05 PM
To grow rootstock in SoCal I just use Kent bought from stores during summer. After eating the fruit (be careful don't bite off the young protruding root that may be out of the seed) I clean flesh off the seed a bit just so not many rolly polly bugs attracted to and might chew off the new growths. I placed the seed with husk (I used to remove the husk but now I prefer to keep the husk which protect the seed and keeps it moist) untouched  directly on top of the soil where I want a mango tree, and cover the seed 1 to 2" with kitchen green trash to keep it moist and protected from strong sun. Keep the pile moist and soon a very healthy big leaves seedling sent out. With seedling trunk still green it loves water daily. But once the seedling is 24" tall and the trunk with thicker brown bark, be careful not to water the soil wet all the time because the constant wet soil will have fungus attack the brown trunk and kill the handsome young tree. It happened to me a few times and I learned from that.

Don't even think about grafting until the seedling carries fruits, then I just perform the modified Walter Zill Inlay graft (coffin in grave) on the 1" or bigger branches, then I can have fruits next year on a one year old graft. From seed to graft fruit took about 3 to 4 years but this is the best way to have a strong well developed tree for more fruits in the future.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 31, 2019, 03:41:45 PM
Hey Sandiegojane,

Welcome to the forum! I have never tried external heat sources for outdoor Mangos but I was able to inhibit flowering and promote a vegetative flush in winter with grafted trees moved into my garage and supplemented with bottom heat via large seedling heat mats and artificial lighting.

In this thread, I have previously mentioned that planting seeds from Polyembryonic varieties like Sweet Tart, may be a good way of growing mango trees in marginal climate areas. By growing seedlings which lack the mature, florigenic hormones, the tree will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering.

Early flowering causes droopiness in the branches due to the weight of the flower panicles and droopiness of branches exposes the branches to the sun which can lead to sunburn.

The issue with planting seedlings from Polyembryonic varieties is that you won’t know for sure wether you are planting the clone or the zygotic seedling. Not all seeds from Polyembryonic Mangos will give you multiple seedlings and sometimes you will get multiple sprouts from the same segment of a seed.

In order to get a better chance at selecting a clone, you will want to ensure you get at least two sprouts from different segments of the seed making sure each seedling has its own individual root system. If you plant out both the seedlings, there is a better chance of getting a clone.

This year, I am doing a little experiment where I grafted a mango tree with multiple “true Sweet Tart” scions along with scions from Sweet Tart seedlings. I expect the branches grafted with true Sweet Tart scions to flower this year or next but I’m hoping the seedling scions will be delayed in their flowering.

If there is any noticeable difference in the time it takes for first blooms to appear between the mature scions vs the seedling scions, I may be able to graft up trees that will grow slightly better due to delayed flowering/increased vegetative growth.

The rootstock tree has flowered before so I consider it mature rootstock even though the rootstock tree was only about 2-3 feet tall when I topworked it.

This rootstock tree is the same tree as my Double Stone Graft Lemon Zest but one rootstock died so it is a single rootstock tree now. I topworked 15 branches with mostly true Sweet Tart scions but I also added Peach Cobbler, Cotton Candy, PPK, Orange Sherbet Seedling #1, Sweet Tart Seedling #1 and Sweet Tart Seedling #2. This tree was originally Lemon Zest so there are a couple true Lemon Zest branches on this tree and all the grafts are grafted onto Lemon Zest as an interstock between the rootstock and Scions.

This tree was grafted on 9/19/19 and 14 of the 15 grafts have pushed and the last graft is still green but we are about to hit our cold weather so it’s not looking good for it. I reached a low of 44F early this morning.



(https://i.postimg.cc/67j7f4Yk/16400-E71-8-AB8-42-A3-AA75-3442-DB7-AEB16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67j7f4Yk)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on November 06, 2019, 01:24:57 PM
Thank you so much for your reply!  I'm afraid I'm not adventurous enough to try grafting.  Christmas tree lights I think could do, but not too much more. LOL!  I bought this tree (Fruit Punch) at the recent CRFG plant sale.  It is grafted, but I don't even know what rootstock it is on (the guy in that section was too busy and my daughter was getting impatient).  My hope is just to keep it alive and growing long enough to get some fruit.  I have one other Mango (Mallika) that I bought from Pine Island Nursery years ago, which is pretty small. I had 4 fruit this year, which were good (by my standards at least) but it isn't getting enough sun where it is located and I plan to move it. The fruit were on the side that's growing into the light (which side is doing well), but the other, shaded side is not happy.  I've been starting to root prune it and will relocate it in the spring. If if survives, I'll be happy. I give it about a 50% chance in my hands.  I wish I had more space and time to devote to gardening (sigh). Everything has to withstand periods of intense attention interspersed with periods of relative neglect.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on November 13, 2019, 09:05:32 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on November 13, 2019, 09:58:11 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)

I have one of those too and it flowered all summer and has tons of fruit set on it now.  The tree is not even big enough to be fruiting.  Seems like not a good type to bother growing here. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on November 14, 2019, 02:01:27 AM
Thank you so much for your reply!  I'm afraid I'm not adventurous enough to try grafting.  Christmas tree lights I think could do, but not too much more. LOL!  I bought this tree (Fruit Punch) at the recent CRFG plant sale.  It is grafted, but I don't even know what rootstock it is on (the guy in that section was too busy and my daughter was getting impatient).  My hope is just to keep it alive and growing long enough to get some fruit.  I have one other Mango (Mallika) that I bought from Pine Island Nursery years ago, which is pretty small. I had 4 fruit this year, which were good (by my standards at least) but it isn't getting enough sun where it is located and I plan to move it. The fruit were on the side that's growing into the light (which side is doing well), but the other, shaded side is not happy.  I've been starting to root prune it and will relocate it in the spring. If if survives, I'll be happy. I give it about a 50% chance in my hands.  I wish I had more space and time to devote to gardening (sigh). Everything has to withstand periods of intense attention interspersed with periods of relative neglect.   

There was a bit of a rush of people, so I do apologize for not answering all the questions.

The trees are grafted on Turpentine rootstock.

I think the trees will do well for you, I have found mangoes to be particularly tolerant of neglect.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: DSotM on November 14, 2019, 08:18:05 AM
Lots of activity in Fresno. Manillas and Valencia pride are flushing. Keitt have been stuck with beginning leaf flush for over a month now - seems to grow poor here. Ice cream and ndm are flowering
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 14, 2019, 05:34:49 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)

Mahas early flowers will usually set fruit so you can leave them on if your tree is large enough to hold fruit. Maha is pretty reliable here in SoCal.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on November 15, 2019, 05:11:16 PM
Thanks again for the replies guys, I decided to cut off half of the panicles, leaving the other half alone; let see what's going to happen with them this coming Spring...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on November 24, 2019, 12:54:25 PM
Gary mango best late mango so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HWXts7K/1-C71-BFF5-83-BE-4-C46-B8-E1-F18-BB84-C4380.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HWXts7K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wt57RDnq/50-FA0-B68-B5-E1-4-A6-A-BAC6-F0-E7716-F6-B2-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wt57RDnq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MMFxnTZZ/A59-B89-B8-FED1-4256-9034-22-EE4-EE6692-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMFxnTZZ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on December 04, 2019, 05:49:24 PM
Can anyone identify the mango in the photo below? It is from a grafted tree growing in San Diego, but the owner doesn't recall which variety he planted. The photo was taken yesterday, December 3.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v/IMG-20191203-154107098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on December 08, 2019, 05:22:54 PM
Can anyone identify the mango in the photo below? It is from a grafted tree growing in San Diego, but the owner doesn't recall which variety he planted. The photo was taken yesterday, December 3.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v/IMG-20191203-154107098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v)

It reminds me of Palmer but most likely it isn't.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on December 11, 2019, 10:11:48 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/WtmR3Hgg/DDF3-D85-A-3-B9-A-4-B07-BE15-B760973-B2032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WtmR3Hgg)

Getting great growth out of this double rootstock Kent. (Indoors under lights as a winter test)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on December 13, 2019, 11:24:38 AM
Gary mango still producing sweet fruits in December. Have a few left that will carry into 2020.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jt9ShkKH/667-CB5-C8-699-A-4-C33-8705-B94-A4-F1-A4474.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jt9ShkKH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YhYZLCyn/A1-C78-B87-4-E3-E-4866-A2-F6-0-D6-B707673-C6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhYZLCyn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bj3yTfrq/DEB9-CC70-2-BCD-4-DE1-930-F-0-A49-D552-E646.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bj3yTfrq)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on February 19, 2020, 03:08:24 PM
Getting a nice flush from this grafted diamond. Will there be any SoCal mango scions available any time soon?

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBQ6hT5z/88-BE9059-C322-492-F-803-B-DC9-B5-A651909.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBQ6hT5z)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaneatwell on February 20, 2020, 04:40:22 PM
For those of you in the San Diego area, i happened across what might be one of the oldest mango trees down here. Its in Escondido. About 20' tall by 30' wide and a trunk that looks to be ~18" wide. I'll add some pics later. PM me if you want the street address to have a look.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaneatwell on February 20, 2020, 08:39:46 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/QHLVtHNv/44-C57406-8-A63-45-F9-9130-39-F8-EA3953-F1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHLVtHNv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xNmC5S5s/BEBD5-E3-E-4-A83-4-A54-A3-D8-94-CA4-F8-B890-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNmC5S5s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: quemacoco on March 27, 2020, 05:13:41 PM
Can anyone tell me where to get a Sweet Tart Mango tree?  I am in Santa Ana and have been looking all over for several months with no luck.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 27, 2020, 11:55:38 PM
You can probably get one from Plantogram.com but it will likely be on Florida Turpentine rootstock. Sweet Tart is on of the varieties that does ok on Florida rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on March 28, 2020, 02:46:11 AM
Delete
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on March 28, 2020, 02:47:25 AM
Plantogram will have grafted sweet tart around July, but they said it will go fast. If you want it, call plantogram and put your name and number, so you will get it first when they have it. Another alternative is, buy any mango tree from home depot and graft the sweet tart scion on it. Usually people will start selling mango scions at the end of August through September.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on April 14, 2020, 07:01:07 AM
Oolie, Thanks for letting me know - invaluable information.  I was really hot at the CFRF plant sale, so it's mostly my fault - I just wanted to get back in my air conditioned car.  :)

Simon,  I just saw this video from Chris at Truly Tropical:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd_5JDBWYck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd_5JDBWYck)
She suggests cutting of most but not all of the individual panicles of mango flowers on young trees (in pots) to keep them from flowering again, allowing the plant to put more energy into vegetative growth.  If you remove just 90% or so, she says it is less likely to send out another panicle, but removing the whole thing triggers bloom.  She also has some tips on pruning to stimulate vegetative growth.  I know she's in Florida, so the temperature effect will be different, but might be worth a try. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 14, 2020, 09:18:03 PM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

I’ve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 14, 2020, 11:09:34 PM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

I’ve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon

Excellent article.

As it is, my trees have already begun the F/V Tr transition, so I have begun to remove flowers and fruit. Hopefully the rain in the forecast doesn't cause infection of the fresh wounds. I also remove some new growth from Lemon Zest. I've mentioned it previously, but for some reason the newer growth of this variety had cracks all over. Some black infection had begun on those cracks, and was beginning to spread, luckily I caught it when I did, as it was small and isolated, I've seen this type of infection work its way back to the trunk before.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on April 15, 2020, 08:06:40 AM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

I’ve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon

Thanks, Simon! 

I remember reading that article. Thanks for posting it!  I inadvertently confirmed the temperature effect.  When we had Santa Ana winds a couple months ago, I brought the small 5 gal mango I have and a few other plants in containers into my kitchen (around 70 degrees F and greater than the 10% RH outside) to protect them. The mango started blooming. I cut the flowers off and kept it inside for a few weeks.  It hasn't rebloomed yet, but hasn't pushed any new leaves either.  It's been outside for a couple months now.  I can just barely see some new green buds forming, but can't tell if they are flowers or leaves yet.  Guess I'll just bring it back inside if they turn out to be flowers. :)  May work for awhile, but was hoping there was an easier solution for larger pots or in-ground trees.  Oh well... 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 15, 2020, 02:08:41 PM
Hi there:

I have read through this thread multiple times to allow the terminology to sink in, and am asking someone to kindly confirm or correct my understanding:  to help achieve best success with growing a mango long term here in So Cal, you either buy a tree that's an ungrafted seedling such as a laverne manilla and graft your desired type to it, or, grow your own seedling, which can serve either to fruit or a graft target.  Growing your own seedling will be true to type if you get multiple growths from one seed.  Yes?  There are exceptions to this, of course, I'm just trying to understand the general strategy.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 15, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Hi there:

I have read through this thread multiple times to allow the terminology to sink in, and am asking someone to kindly confirm or correct my understanding:  to help achieve best success with growing a mango long term here in So Cal, you either buy a tree that's an ungrafted seedling such as a laverne manilla and graft your desired type to it, or, grow your own seedling, which can serve either to fruit or a graft target.  Growing your own seedling will be true to type if you get multiple growths from one seed.  Yes?  There are exceptions to this, of course, I'm just trying to understand the general strategy.

Thank you!

Most of what you've stated is accurate according to multiple observers. The part about multiple growths is actually related to Polyembryonism in mangoes, where one of the seedlings is often a clone of the parent. It's not always a clone, you don't always get multiple trees to sprout from seeds of polyembryonic varieties, and even if you do, there's no guarantee that one of them will be a clone of the parent. Though there are experimental techniques being employed to separate the clones from the new offspring.

In Gary Zill's case, he crushes the leaves of the different seedlings and selects for ones with different sap aromas to the parent mango, in the case of those trying to germinate clones from seedlings, they select for aromas similar to the sap aroma of the parent. In any case there are no guarantees, but it is possible to get polyploid clones as well. Polyploid clones will be dwarf versions of the parent.

It's somewhat complicated, but in practice, many will succeed at getting clones to grow from seed. In my opinion, the rigorous selection put forth by Gary Zill brought forth many superior genes, and the potential to get even better results is quite high if someone were to continue with his technique, specifically improving on his work.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on April 20, 2020, 09:55:28 PM
Wow, I just read this whole thread, and I can't even begin to comment.  So much useful stuff!  Thanks everyone -- I hope to be able to contribute to it myself, soon enough!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 09:16:13 AM
Hello, another newbie question: how old should mango from seed be if chosen as a root graft here in so cal?

I sprouted a large, green/red costco mango last August, had a single sprout only, put into a a 3" pot in October, pinched the top in December, and put it into a 7 gallon pot mid March - before actually knowing you are supposed to slowly up-pot fruit trees, oops.  It had a very small root system.  Sadly, I didn't note the type of mango.  I'm not sure if I should practice grafting to it, or, grow it a few years and see if it'll fruit.

This thread was a lot of fun to read a few times through, inspiring :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 01:18:01 PM
You can graft as a sapling but I highly recommend allowing the tree to get large before top working. If you Graft a small tree with mature scions, it will flower within the next year. I’ve grafted hundreds of mango saplings using epicotyl grafts and I’ve also grafted many year old saplings and they will flower within a year unless you bring them in during cold weather or if you Graft with seedling scions.

When these young trees flower, it significantly slows down the rate of growth because energy is put into flowering and not into vegetative growth. The leaves are the trees solar panels and if the tree didn’t waste it’s energy on flowering, it would have approximately twice as many leaves. There is then the additive effect that each additional leaf it would have had, could capture that much more sun energy.

This process then repeats every winter and the tree that was grafted when small will again bloom and the seedling that was not grafted will again grow vegetatively once the weather is sufficiently warm enough for growth.

Here are a couple seedlings that were grafted as a young sapling:
CAC graft on White Pirie seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/sBkCmK7d/7323-B518-35-EB-4027-872-C-06-FABD0-A2364.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBkCmK7d)
Sweet Tart graft on Kent seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/Zvx5dX95/C5-CEA5-D4-E6-BF-4-F21-9928-0-D590-AB9-D165.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zvx5dX95)

Same grafted sweet Tart on Kent rootstock vs Kent Seedling that was not grafted. The trees are the same age but look at the difference in height. Don’t count height of the flower stock on the grafted tree because it will be removed anyways. The ungrafted tree is twice the height of the grafted tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wqpf4dxz/930-DD624-E03-B-4-F7-C-B6-B2-DC6-CBA5868-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wqpf4dxz)

In case anyone is wondering, yes, these roughly 12 inch tall trees grafted with mature scions will attempt to hold fruit to maturity but the fruit will be tiny, may not fully ripen and will severely stunt your tree. Here is another Sweet Tart grafted onto Fruit Cocktail seedling holding several tiny fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3y2VR5fy/ECCBA72-C-418-B-4304-B9-F1-EF5-A55-AD0-D2-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3y2VR5fy)

It is best to graft trees when they have reached a mature fruiting size, ideally about 4+ feet tall with several well developed scaffold branches.

The issue with this technique is that you will have to know how to top work a mature tree and you will need to perform multiple grafts and will require multiple scions.

When grafting saplings, you only need a single scion and if you perform epicotyl grafts, you can get near 100% takes.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
If you are new to grafting, it is ok to graft you g saplings but the growth will be slower. You will also have to remove about half to 3/4 of the bloom panicle each year in order to minimize drooping.

Wether you have a grafted or ungrafted mango tree, you should stake up any drooping branches so that the scaffold branches are shaped in the way you prefer. For me, the more vertical the branches the better because the more vertical the branches are, the less likely they are to flower but this effect is minimal compared to cold stimulus in floral induction.

If your tree is already sturdy and vertical, there is no need to stake it up. The action of the wind blowing a tree causing it to sway in the breeze will actually stiffen up the tree and make the trunk and branches stronger.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 07:30:40 PM
Cool, thanks.  Sounds like the best option is to give it another ~3 years. 

I have read about the issues associated with blooming too early grafting mature scion and cold weather, but presenting it again as you have made it a lot more clear, thank you for that :)  The tip was nipped because I didn't know any better, thought they were like avocados.  The plant has been relatively dormant, is now about 8" tall or so, and finally beginning to show growth at the top.  Brown leaf tips are likely from the poor soil choice in the 3" pot.  Someone posted an interesting video today about pruning mangos, it was quite informative!

I have no grafting experience.  The local costco had some oxnard grown ataulfos I'll maybe try sprouting them and learn how to graft.  Will need to research :)

Because there's very little space to work with, I am trying to do as much reading and theorizing before making decisions.  It's a little overwhelming reviewing about the dozens of types available, how does one new to this go about tasting the different types?  Or, just get something and go?

Thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/KK7v6Lv3/mango-top.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KK7v6Lv3)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 08:53:14 PM
You can read through the old threads like this one here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437)
There wasn’t a lot of info last years but the years prior to 2019 has lots of good info regarding members favorite varieties for each given year.

This thread is a bit more relevant with a bit of info regarding the best tasting and reliable Mangos for SoCal.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770)

Some of the best tasting varieties like Lemon Zest, hardly produce here( without spraying) because of disease issues.

Sweet Tart,Venus, CAC, Edward, Peach Cobbler, NDM, Gary, Carrie and several other varieties have proven to be productive over several years of observations and at various locations around SoCal. Other varieties that are promising but lacking data are Cotton Candy, E4, Juicy Peach.

Leo Manuel also has multiple good to excellent tasting varieties that are productive in areas with high fungal disease pressures.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Yup, thanks, I have read both those threads at least three times through each, and I plan to stay away from Lemon Zest (which you wouldn't know since I'm new here and didn't volunteer the info, so I do appreciate you confirming! :)).  Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining, just trying to figure out how to get through all the info.  For example, put yourself in the shoes of someone new, and look at this thread on compact mangoes (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0).. there are 35 varieties listed right up front.  Reading what others write will get you only so far.  I really want to try a sweet tart, but, it's not on the compact list, so I probably won't get one.

I suppose after the stay-home orders are released, I'll just start browsing stores and paying attention to the fruit before purchasing, I think I saw fruits for sale occasionally through the buy/sell here as well, then cross reference anything I eat/find with the two threads (California and Compact).  Is that how it's usually done?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 10:42:37 PM
Ah, sorry to double post, I just compared both the california producers list and the compact list, and narrowed it down to 10 types.  Now it's a lot easier to handle.  Of course, the list could be incomplete, and there are probably exceptions, but I have something to work with now :)  10 much easier that 35 in one and 32 in the other! ;D
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 25, 2020, 07:50:33 PM
Strom, I wouldn’t worry about getting a compact Mango unless you are severely restricted in regards to space, for example, if you’re living in an apartment/condo or if you have to keep it in a pot.

Mangos grow much better in warmer areas and mango trees often get fungal afflictions in our cold wet winters. The dwarf or condo type mangos grow very slowly in our climate and I would recommend planting a vigorous variety instead. You may need to trim the plant more frequently but you’ll likely get more fruit because the vigorous varieties will reach fruiting size more rapidly.

My friends Pickering and Cogshall was over 12 years old and was just a tiny Bush. The Cogshall eventually died and the Pickering eventually faded away as well.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 25, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
Strom, I wouldn’t worry about getting a compact Mango unless you are severely restricted in regards to space, for example, if you’re living in an apartment/condo or if you have to keep it in a pot.
((snip))
My friends Pickering and Cogshall was over 12 years old and was just a tiny Bush. The Cogshall eventually died and the Pickering eventually faded away as well.

Thanks.  Yeah, I have specific situation which prevents me from anything large, which is further complicated through minimal full-sun yard space.  Cogshall and Pickering are not in the "grows well in CA" thread, so, I already ruled those out. 

It's very possible that mangos won't be suited to my environment, but, I don't want to fill up this thread with my quandary.  I'm going to keep researching all the fruits, and probably post a separate topic later for advice after I've narrowed things down.  I'm rather new to gardening overall, so am taking it slow :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 22, 2020, 02:51:10 PM
Here are some updates to some seedling mangos that Brad and I planted at the orchard. We initially planted a bunch of Florida trees because they were already purchased before Brad and I partnered up but most eventually died and the few remaining trees are either stunted or so droopy and diseased that were probably going to just pull them all out if Brad hasn’t already done so.

These are some seedling trees, some from Polyembryonic seeds, some from Monoembryonic seeds. The seedling trees tend to have a nice, upright structure that is not droopy. Most these trees are only a year or two old, I think the biggest one is 2-3 years old.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39/2-D1985-BD-B3-D6-4213-A381-EEFCF468-FF01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ/7-B51-FD11-98-A3-4268-A937-519-CC373-C7-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwfq89x/E05-A080-C-7-DAF-47-A1-8838-E7-B31-D2022-EB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwfq89x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKFystKs/F4-CEC5-CA-1096-4-D5-E-B215-6400183137-CF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKFystKs)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on May 22, 2020, 04:15:27 PM
Those are damn big for only 2-3 years old!  How long were they in a pot before planted in the ground?  Did they spend their first couple winters in a greenhouse?  Those are some beautiful seedlings. And one already has flowers!  Nice work guys. I would love to replicate that early growth with some of my seedlings.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on May 22, 2020, 04:36:58 PM
The seeds go for around a year in a pot then in the ground.  Greenhouse or simons yard for the first winter.     

The seedling trees definitely do better with the first 3 years of no flowering compared to a pre grafted tree.  The flowering is so strong here it just stunts small trees.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: beicadad on May 22, 2020, 05:22:18 PM
Very nice growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 22, 2020, 05:42:58 PM
We like to vet the seedlings through one winter whenever possible. Some seedlings are just inherently weaker or more prone to disease and by grafting seedlings that have gone through a SoCal Winter, we are able to weed out the weaker stock.

I’ve also had great luck with direct seeding mango seeds into the ground. These are usually very vigorous because there is not transplant shock. I sometimes go against my own advice and graft them when they are too small because i have scions available and don’t want to toss the scions.

The good thing about starting them in pots is that you can move them into your garage or greenhouse in Winter and you can also root prune your trees to create a more dense root system.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on May 25, 2020, 08:37:30 AM
We like to vet the seedlings through one winter whenever possible. Some seedlings are just inherently weaker or more prone to disease and by grafting seedlings that have gone through a SoCal Winter, we are able to weed out the weaker stock.

I’ve also had great luck with direct seeding mango seeds into the ground. These are usually very vigorous because there is not transplant shock. I sometimes go against my own advice and graft them when they are too small because i have scions available and don’t want to toss the scions.

The good thing about starting them in pots is that you can move them into your garage or greenhouse in Winter and you can also root prune your trees to create a more dense root system.

Simon

Interesting thread and detailed explanations, even though i am in a different country, but a mediterranean one (Tunisia) so i guess the climate is similar to yours.
When you seed directly in the ground, do you protect / shade the young seedling during the first week when it emerges in order to prevent hot sun damage on the young leaves?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:12:11 AM
No, I let the seedlings grow directly in full sun. I don’t baby the seedling but I will protect new grafts from temps above about 85F. For grafts, the first two weeks are critical so I protect them if its hot. For seedlings, I don’t give them any protection.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:32:55 PM
Here’s a quick update on my Sweet Tart seedlings. I planted one seed about 3-4 years ago and got two sprouts from different segments of the seed, each with their own root system. I just let them be. Their trunks are right next to each other and these seedlings are shaded most of the day with a large Pomegranate tree to one side and a medium sized Lemon Zest mango tree on the other side.

These seedlings are stunted due to being shaded out but one of the seedlings flowered last year and both seedlings flowered and set some small fruit this year. I will remove the fruit because the trees are still too small. Brad and I have been experimenting a lot with seedling trees and we have found it best to maximize their growth during the first critical 3 years before they start to bloom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2y6BBxc/5203-AC41-6685-4-DE4-99-E9-B3-BC0188-F627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2y6BBxc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfT7RCvN/679-CDCA2-6-ACE-4897-A377-6-C35-F9-D08195.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfT7RCvN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vD645PrD/75-EFCD1-C-5-D09-41-CF-B0-FB-064-C0-C1766-A8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vD645PrD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsRXGgS9/76-B9-EBEE-E268-4283-B5-B0-80-A480-D67166.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsRXGgS9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5HNHvbgM/8-C3730-E5-058-D-4-AC2-B473-77-D2-CB8-CB23-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HNHvbgM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rzvtb6VS/9-C6-E0011-EC7-A-4-E36-942-F-3-D8-E8-A43-ED08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzvtb6VS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8ty0dTj/A957-EF85-05-CF-420-A-B000-2-DFC4-D6-AB7-DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8ty0dTj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R62qjfBM/C4-D79-CFB-8930-45-E6-BFF4-512-F706-B543-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R62qjfBM)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
I didn’t take a zoomed out picture because all you’ll see is the Pomegranate branches covering the canopy.

Here is an Orange Sherbet seedling that is about 2 years old but in full sun except for some shading from the fence in the early morning and late evening.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQM4Ypmy/5-F18-C968-8-C5-E-435-B-862-C-0-C9-E733175-CC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQM4Ypmy)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on May 27, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
Simon, I really appreciate you sharing the progress of your seedling trees.  Without examples to compare against, it is difficult to gauge if my seedlings are progressing as expected for our climate.  Its also reassuring to see various seedlings performing well in the first 3-5 years of growth with potential as rootstock.  In addition to gophers, my current challenges include aphids attacking the new leaf growth, wind destroying new leaf growth, and birds landing on new growth destroying the tender leaves with their little bird claws.  Here are some of my various 4-5 year old seedlings:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FY7s04nM/Paheri.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY7s04nM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsmFw1xT/Carrie.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsmFw1xT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gn0YPpdx/Ott.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn0YPpdx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjx0nGP5/Red-Saigon.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sjx0nGP5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QV421TGM/Manilla.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QV421TGM)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on June 05, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
I want to thank everyone, especially Simon, for creating and contributing to this thread.  I wish I would have seen this thread a few years ago before purchasing and planting my mango trees.  I have learned quite a bit on my own and from this thread.  I have a few questions regarding grafting mango scions that have not been discussed in detail or I may have missed.  I understand that the warmer growing season is the best time to select and graft mango scions.
1)  When is the best time of day (morning, noon, evening) for picking/cutting the mango scions, or does it matter?
2)  When is the best time of day (morning, noon, evening) for grafting the scion onto the host, or does it matter?
3)  Are there any issues grafting onto suckers from the root-stock - Manila root-stock (I don't believe there is but just want to confirm)?  I grafted onto a sucker last year and it is doing well.  I was surprised it didn't flower during the winter or early spring...just put out some wonderful growth.  My other grafts from last year put out blooms in winter and early spring.


Thank-you in advance for any helpful responses,
Tony


(https://i.postimg.cc/bdKkT36h/IMG-7063.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdKkT36h)
Grafted Sucker
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 06, 2020, 01:08:16 PM
Hey Tony,

This is just my personal preference but here’s what I do and why:

1)I usually don’t even think about the time of day I harvest my scions. I try to always prep my scions by removing the leaves about 1-2 weeks before I harvest them. Now that you have me thinking  about it, the late evening is probably the best time of day to harvest the scions. Thinking back to my botany classes, the plants convert sunlight into carbohydrates/starches in the daytime and at night, they send more of that energy back down into the roots than in the daytime. By harvesting around sunset, there is probably the most stored energy in the scions, please correct me if I’m wrong.

2) I always graft in the evening because I don’t want the strong sunlight to hit the scion and graft union. When the sunlight hits the scions, it often causes condensation build up under the Buddytape/parafilm. The first two weeks after grafting are critical but the first 1-3 days are super super intensive care unit critical. The union is forming at this point and you want to give the scion and rootstock the best chances of a successful union.

I do this by grafting in the evening in order to give it the maximum number of hours before the sun hits it again and I also cover my scions and entire graft union with whatever I have lying around. I often use white paper bags with holes bunched in it or white paper or leaves taped together. Just about anything that will give it some shade.

3) if you graft onto a vigorous sucker, the shade from the main tree may shade the grafted sucker so you may not get the most vigorous growth. The shape of the tree may also not be ideal because the trees are so close. I have many Polyembryonic seedlings that I just left in place so the trunks are almost touching it’s neighbor and the trees will grow away from each other. The tree will look like it’s leaning away from the neighbor but it’s no big deal for me.

Before I wrap my scions, I clean them with a copper soap and allow them to air dry before wrapping. I have a lot of fungal diseases in my area and I would occasionally get fungus on my wrapper scions before I started this practice.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on June 07, 2020, 09:12:32 PM
Are there any issues I should think about before grafting onto a waist-high seedling in a 5-gallon pot?

Would it be better/worse to keep it under grow lights in my garage for the first week or two after grafting?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on June 07, 2020, 09:45:20 PM
Hi Simon,

Thank-you.  I tend to agree about harvesting scions in mid to late afternoon.  My neighbor and a florist recommends picking roses in the mid/late afternoon as the bloom will last longer due to the flower having the most energy/nutrients at this time - similar analogy to the scions have the most energy at this time.

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on June 10, 2020, 07:34:25 PM
Does anyone want to share their fertilizer schedule?  I've never been consistent, and I want to start.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Are there any issues I should think about before grafting onto a waist-high seedling in a 5-gallon pot?

Would it be better/worse to keep it under grow lights in my garage for the first week or two after grafting?

If you want faster growth, it’s best to plant the tree and not graft it until it is much larger and the scaffold branches have formed. If you graft with mature scions, it will flower in Winter and continue flowering for about 5-6 months every year thereafter.

If you must graft now because you want a lower graft or you don’t want to have to go through the troubles of top working multiple scaffold branches, your suggestion of moving the potted tree into the garage for a couple weeks while the union heals is a good idea.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
Hey Jake,

Everyone would ideally come up with a customized fertilizer routine that suits their specific trees and soil conditions.

Everyone’s yards are different and one of the most important factors to consider is the pH of your soil. If your pH is off, your plants will not be able to uptake the nutrients you give it. For the more advanced gardeners, they will also consider the CEC/AEC by sending out soil samples for analysis. I just want to put out this disclaimer first.

I know some readers are probably thinking that this is overthinking the situation but the more you know about the science behind fertilizing, the better you will be able to troubleshoot if you have issues.

Ok, here is the simplified answer. In San Diego, our soil pH is generally high unless your soil has been conditioned over many years.

In general, I first adjust the pH of my soil with granular soil sulfur which will slowly decrease the pH of your soil. I add sulfur every year around Spring when the weather starts warming up.  A general purpose citrus fertilizer works fine for Mangos. Something you can find at Home Depot like Vigoro 6-4-6 is fine for Mangos.

I usually use 1/4 the recommended dose on the instructions but I fertilize 4x as frequently. I back off on fertilizer around late Summer/early Fall because you don’t want vegetative growth going into cold weather as the soft growth can be an entry point for diseases. You have to be especially careful with smart/slow release fertilizer because it can release nutrients well after the application date.

The slow/smart release fertilizers are great for potted plants.

Once the trees are mature, I usually feed with with 0-10-10 or 3-12-12 plus minors and trace. I use this for most my fruiting trees.

In addition to these fertilizers, I add kelp emulsion around pre bloom to fruit set. Fish emulsion is also great for growth.

There are plenty of good organic fertilizers and they are slower acting and release their nutrients as the microbial life breaks them down. Cottonseed meal is a great acidifying fertilizer. I usually us a combination of organic and chemical fertilizers along with foliar feedings.

Because of the fungal issues we get in Winter, I like to add Silica to my fertilizer regimen. I use Potassium Silicate as a drench and a foliar to harden up the leaves and branches.

Around late Summer/early Fall, I apply some Southern Ag Citrus nutritional spray to give it some micronutrients and trace nutrients that Dr Crane recommended. I believe it was Manganese and something else I can’t recall at the moment but I do remember that the Citrus Nutritional spray had both nutrients. It is supposed to help prevent Phomopsis.

Foliar feeding is great because you bypass the root system so soil pH does not affect the uptake of nutrients supplied via foliar feeding. A fogging system is recommended for foliar feeding if you have many trees. A spreader/sticker is also very important.

Much of the ground applied fertilizers are washed away and wasted. Slow/smart release fertilizers are more efficient but it is difficult to know how much remaining fertilizer is in the soil.

For potted plants, you can take an EC or PPM 500/700 reading from the runoff to know how much fertilizer is left in the soil.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenmango on June 26, 2020, 08:41:38 PM
I'm new to mango growing. Thank you for this post. I learned a lot after reading the info. on this forum.

I would like to buy the following mango varieties as a fruit or seed. Please let me know how I can obtain them. I would pay for the fruits or seeds and your time to find them for me. I live in SF Bay Area in CA (zone 10a) so shipping may be an issue. If you know a source for these mangoes or seeds please help.

Cac, Xoài  Cat Hoa Loc , Nam Doc Mai, Nam Doc Mai #4, Honey Kiss, Maha Chanok, Butter cream,  SugarLoaf (E-4), Florigon , PPK, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, Coconut cream, M4, Pina Colada, Cotton Candy, Pim Seng Mun, Pram Kai Meu.

I have a manilla queen in the ground and it is doing well. I don't know how old it is as the owner didn't know. Bought it from Vista and it was about 4 ft w/ a big trunk.  I have longan, cherimoya, and atemoya and they are doing excellent in the ground. I also bought 6 manilla mango trees from LaVerne Nursery 3gal and waiting for them to establish roots before putting them in the ground. In March I got two and in late May I transplant 1 in a pot and one in the ground and both have not had any new leaves. The leaves seem to be burned bc of salt water or sock? When I took the tree out of the pot the root ball was not attached to any soil, thus my new manilla I just got yesterday (4 of them) will stay in their 3 gal pot until next spring.
I don't know how to graft and I already made a novice mistake of buying a few trees from FL with turpentine rootstocks.
The plan is my gardener knows how to graft so he's going to help me.  I recently took out many trees to make room for the mangoes.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Nga
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 28, 2020, 03:38:13 PM
Hey Nga,

I would recommend posting your seed want list in the buy/sell forum. Now is a great time to start learning how to raft from your gardener. I would not recommend Lemon Zest as a rootstock in SoCal. LZ seedlings grow fine at first but like an actual grafted LZ, the foliage and branches often get fungal issues and dieback.
I’ve planted out many LZ seedlings and some do fine in certain locations but others have had serious fungal issues.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenmango on June 30, 2020, 12:40:41 PM
Thank you Simon. I found a seller and ordered some seeds (30 seeds of 10 varieties). 
Does CAC  or Cat Hoa Loc do well in CA? I will have them in pots at first from seeds and was thinking of getting a grafted CAC tree to give it a head start.

I grow blueberries for the last 10 yrs and have bountiful harvest so I know how to work with soil ph for mangoes.  I also have cherimoya and atemoya and longan that seems to do well so far. In the coming years I should know more if any of these are  good for our climate. I also bought sapodilla, soursop, June plum, and sugar apples, Pickering, and Nam doc mai tree in pots, ordered from FL.

Cheers,

Nga
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on June 30, 2020, 06:38:38 PM
Thank you Simon. I found a seller and ordered some seeds (30 seeds of 10 varieties). 
Does CAC  or Cat Hoa Loc do well in CA? I will have them in pots at first from seeds and was thinking of getting a grafted CAC tree to give it a head start.

I grow blueberries for the last 10 yrs and have bountiful harvest so I know how to work with soil ph for mangoes.  I also have cherimoya and atemoya and longan that seems to do well so far. In the coming years I should know more if any of these are  good for our climate. I also bought sapodilla, soursop, June plum, and sugar apples, Pickering, and Nam doc mai tree in pots, ordered from FL.

Cheers,

Nga

I have a CAC seedling that is doing excellent, it keeps branching without tip pruning. I like its growth habit too.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 30, 2020, 10:17:16 PM
I agree with Behl, CAC is a good grower. CAC is one of those varieties that may need slightly more maturity or cold stimulus to bloom which is a good thing. My grafted CAC is currently holding a few fruit even with the worst Powdery Mildew I have seen in years. I sampled one CAC fruit that was absolutely incredible this year. It was super sweet with perfect acid balance and the texture and overall eating quality was top notch.  I highly recommend this variety for mango growers in SoCal.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: yimnvs on August 19, 2020, 11:32:39 PM
Hi, I am from Norcal San Leandro zone 10a and I got a Mallika mango I bought from Florida on Turpentine rootstock. I planted it in the ground in January so it is about 8 months now. It is doing well. It flowered and had leaf growth in spring and when I cut the flowers off after it's done blooming, new flowers grew. It now has a bunch of fruitlets and new leaf growth is forming. I am hoping to be the first one in my area to have a mango. lol
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXZxvMx5/IMG-20200819-194437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXZxvMx5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JyyXkJ54/IMG-20200819-193210.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyyXkJ54)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Q91W63z2/IMG-20200819-193147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q91W63z2)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on August 25, 2020, 03:12:13 PM
Simon, during the early years of a mango seedling in the ground, how many set of leaves should I expect per season please? My seedlings have been kinda slow so I was wondering if it's normal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on September 06, 2020, 04:55:17 PM
Hello Everyone,

This current heatwave is baking/frying some of my new growth flushes on my mango trees and avocado tree.  I watered deeply two days (Thursday) before this current heatwave hit.  Saturday's 116 temperature did a number to the mango and avocado trees (only the new growth - the rest of the old growth appears to be doing fine).  Today's current temperature of 115 is not helping.   I'm hoping that I do not lose any of my new grafts to this heat wave.  Any advice on how to help the trees recover (especially the new grafts)?


Mango grafts - not looking good in the the heat (2 days over 114 Deg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWQghKt3/IMG-7620.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWQghKt3)

New growth - baked in the heat
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKFVV2VB/IMG-7621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKFVV2VB)

New growth
(https://i.postimg.cc/MvdNdm99/IMG-7622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvdNdm99)


Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 06, 2020, 05:02:22 PM
Tony, I water everyday when its this hot.  Its cooking out here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on September 06, 2020, 07:13:28 PM
Hi Brad,

Thanks for the reply.  The soil is very damp,  I have a 2 inch layer of mulch.  My Rapidtest digital moisture meter is indicating a high moisture level 7.1-9.4  from a scale of 0-10.  I don't want to create a soggy soil environment for the roots.  I'm lightly spraying the leaves once the sun sets.  Today should be the last of the 110+ daytime temperatures. 

Most of my trees don't have  issues until the temperatures start going above 110.  Should I wait to trim the fried leaves and branches? I'm hoping that I don't see too many dried up blackened branches in the coming days. 

This reminds me of the last heat wave 3-4 years ago where the temps rapidly shot up above 110.  I had to do a lot of heavy pruning to clear out the fried branches from the avocado and mango trees.

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on September 06, 2020, 09:21:26 PM
I agree with Behl, CAC is a good grower. CAC is one of those varieties that may need slightly more maturity or cold stimulus to bloom which is a good thing. My grafted CAC is currently holding a few fruit even with the worst Powdery Mildew I have seen in years. I sampled one CAC fruit that was absolutely incredible this year. It was super sweet with perfect acid balance and the texture and overall eating quality was top notch.  I highly recommend this variety for mango growers in SoCal.

Simon

Hey Simon whats the average size of a cac mango?   

On another note someone said that low vigor mangos don't do well in California.   My Brother's Maha Chanok  is doing great! We did follow Simon's advice on Manila root stock and letting the stock grow first.  The scion was from Frank.  I was lucky enough to taste the fruit from the tree it came from and its still my favorite next to sweet tart.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 06, 2020, 09:26:38 PM
oh man, the preview for the thread said Growing....and then i saw BoxTurtle...but it was a username associated with the thread, and not part of the title, and i had  this vision of box turtles in pens underneath trees, and people were growing boxturtles, by keeping them fed on fruits and bugs that ate the rotting fruits......

but now i see this isn't what's going on here....

sorry, off topic rant....

bye now.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 06, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
Hi Brad,

Thanks for the reply.  The soil is very damp,  I have a 2 inch layer of mulch.  My Rapidtest digital moisture meter is indicating a high moisture level 7.1-9.4  from a scale of 0-10.  I don't want to create a soggy soil environment for the roots.  I'm lightly spraying the leaves once the sun sets.  Today should be the last of the 110+ daytime temperatures. 

Most of my trees don't have  issues until the temperatures start going above 110.  Should I wait to trim the fried leaves and branches? I'm hoping that I don't see too many dried up blackened branches in the coming days. 

This reminds me of the last heat wave 3-4 years ago where the temps rapidly shot up above 110.  I had to do a lot of heavy pruning to clear out the fried branches from the avocado and mango trees.

Tony

You can hose your plants down mid day.  This idea that watering plants down in the sun will burn them is a myth. 

If your soil holds a lot of water then theres no point in over watering.  Ours dries out quickly and even with heavy watering some of my trees had burnt new flush like yours.  It happens.  Not a big deal.  The leaves will dry up and turn brown pretty quickly then you can cut them back to a good spot where the new buds will come out spaced out from one another.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:09:38 AM
I agree with Behl, CAC is a good grower. CAC is one of those varieties that may need slightly more maturity or cold stimulus to bloom which is a good thing. My grafted CAC is currently holding a few fruit even with the worst Powdery Mildew I have seen in years. I sampled one CAC fruit that was absolutely incredible this year. It was super sweet with perfect acid balance and the texture and overall eating quality was top notch.  I highly recommend this variety for mango growers in SoCal.

Simon

Hey Simon whats the average size of a cac mango?   

On another note someone said that low vigor mangos don't do well in California.   My Brother's Maha Chanok  is doing great! We did follow Simon's advice on Manila root stock and letting the stock grow first.  The scion was from Frank.  I was lucky enough to taste the fruit from the tree it came from and its still my favorite next to sweet tart.

I can take a picture of my CAC fruit tomorrow. It’s about a pound or a bit over.

Slow growers by definition don’t grow as fast as more vigorous varieties so if your looking to get a larger more productive tree, I would recommend more vigorous varieties like Sweet Tart.

Maha is one of those varieties that does ok because of its disease resistance. It will produce reliably even in high bioburden locations like mine. My tree did ok but I much prefer the newer Zill varieties so I removed my tree. Some people really like this variety and more power to them.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:15:18 AM
Hi, I am from Norcal San Leandro zone 10a and I got a Mallika mango I bought from Florida on Turpentine rootstock. I planted it in the ground in January so it is about 8 months now. It is doing well. It flowered and had leaf growth in spring and when I cut the flowers off after it's done blooming, new flowers grew. It now has a bunch of fruitlets and new leaf growth is forming. I am hoping to be the first one in my area to have a mango. lol
(https://i.postimg.cc/hXZxvMx5/IMG-20200819-194437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXZxvMx5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JyyXkJ54/IMG-20200819-193210.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyyXkJ54)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Q91W63z2/IMG-20200819-193147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q91W63z2)

Nice looking tree but I highly recommend removing fruit from such small trees unless the fruit is already close to ripening. The tree is still full of vigor now but if you let it hold fruit, it will have less stored energy for winter.

You did well white washing the branches! That is extremely important to prevent sunburn.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:23:21 AM
Simon, during the early years of a mango seedling in the ground, how many set of leaves should I expect per season please? My seedlings have been kinda slow so I was wondering if it's normal.

It is extremely variable depending on when the seed is planted, the type of seed and how much you are pushing it. I had one Sweet Tart seedling that grew to about 5 feet tall in under a year but I gave it special fertilizers that I’ve been experimenting with. I’ll try to take a picture tomorrow if I remember.

If you plant late in the season and plant in a small pot with poor soil, your seedling may only have a few leaves in its first year.

If your seedling is growing slow, make sure you are fertilizing it appropriately but before you fertilize, make sure the pH of your soil is appropriate. Foliar feeding is a great way to boost plant growth without the troubles of nutrient lock which you can get if you inappropriately apply ground applications of fertilizer.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:35:19 AM
Hello Everyone,

This current heatwave is baking/frying some of my new growth flushes on my mango trees and avocado tree.  I watered deeply two days (Thursday) before this current heatwave hit.  Saturday's 116 temperature did a number to the mango and avocado trees (only the new growth - the rest of the old growth appears to be doing fine).  Today's current temperature of 115 is not helping.   I'm hoping that I do not lose any of my new grafts to this heat wave.  Any advice on how to help the trees recover (especially the new grafts)?


Mango grafts - not looking good in the the heat (2 days over 114 Deg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWQghKt3/IMG-7620.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWQghKt3)

New growth - baked in the heat
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKFVV2VB/IMG-7621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKFVV2VB)

New growth
(https://i.postimg.cc/MvdNdm99/IMG-7622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvdNdm99)


Tony

Hey Tony,

Brad has much more experience protecting trees from heat than I do. I only get to about 100-104F max in the last 10 years or so at my place and Brads place gets to a toasty 117!

The best protection is to have a healthy tree with upright branches that are not droopy. If you have droopy branches, white wash them to protect the branches from sunburn.

In Spring when weather warms up and you begin to see new vegetative growth on your mango trees, you can apply a foliar fertilizer with potassium silicate. This can help a bit but you have do do this well in advance of a heatwave, like many months in advance.

For last minute protection, you can white wash exposed branches or spray Surround Kaolin clay like Brad recommended somewhere.

Also, make sure your tree is well hydrated.

I recently placed new grafts on one of my trees and my buds are just pushing on the two week old grafts and they are doing ok in the 100F heatwave.

My new grafts that were put on last week are wrapped in white paper towels to prevent sun from directly hitting them. I’ll take pictures tomorrow if I remember.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:39:51 AM
oh man, the preview for the thread said Growing....and then i saw BoxTurtle...but it was a username associated with the thread, and not part of the title, and i had  this vision of box turtles in pens underneath trees, and people were growing boxturtles, by keeping them fed on fruits and bugs that ate the rotting fruits......

but now i see this isn't what's going on here....

sorry, off topic rant....

bye now.

Haha, Adam, you crack me up! BTW, the Jaboticabas I got from you almost ten years ago are rocking. I neglected them for years and finally started treating them good a few years ago and they’re growing like gangbusters now. I owe you my friend!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:28:14 PM
Here’s an average sized CAC mango, approximately one pound

(https://i.postimg.cc/tsyx3zhY/48168-E15-12-DB-4486-A2-D5-FBC9-F85-E9858.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tsyx3zhY)

To protect from sunburn, I apply a silica product via foliar feeding when the leaves are young and expanding. I’ve used Dyna Gro Pro-Tekt and other silica products. I also white wash my exposed mango branches to prevent sunburn. My young grafts that are pushing new growth were recently exposed to 100-104F temperatures and didn’t burn.

My new grafts, grafted 1 week ago are protected with white paper towels. There are probably better alternatives but I use what’s readily available. I’ve even used large leaves taped together and it works fine. I find that the first two weeks after grafting are critical and keeping direct sun off the graft union reduces condensation build up under the wrap and also prevents overheating of the scion.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0bKTYY8R/375284-FA-E8-CF-4213-AC8-D-821-BB04-ED495.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bKTYY8R)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mnyg4zM9/7800-F015-926-B-4-DC4-8-C32-30-A04-EAED970.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mnyg4zM9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WFbRgx4X/9397015-F-2275-4-E3-F-86-D3-126-B7-D4-C5355.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFbRgx4X)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ts0L2sT1/DE733-BBC-EFE2-4-F24-8203-929-C8-ACBCCC2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts0L2sT1)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:51:05 PM
For those of you that have been to my yard, that white washed mango tree is my(was my) large Lemon Zest on Florida Turpentine rootstock. I was able to get it to grow good by acidifying the soil to bring the pH down below 8. It’s currently around pH 6.5 using the Bluelab soil pH meter. This tree grew well but has issues with fruit set and has horrible issues with Powdery Mildew. These issues are related to the Lemon Zest variety but for some reason, my LZ on Lavern Manilla is able to set fruit but this tree on Florida Turpentine rootstock rarely sets fruit.

I decided a few months ago to completely top work this tree with Sweet Tart, Venus, Pineapple Pleasure, coconut Cream, Edward, Ice Cream, E4, M4, E4 seedling, Pina Colada seedling and probably a few I forgot. The slower growing varieties were grafted on just to test them out, they will likely get shaded out but I wanted to see what would happen if I grafted a super slow grower(Ice Cream) onto the most dominant apical branch available.

Here are a few pictures of Lemon Zest fruit from my LZ grafted onto Lavern Manilla. This tree is squished in between several other trees and right up against a fence so it does not get a lot of sunlight. I only have two panicles of fruit left hanging and strangely enough, one panicle is full of full sized fruit and the other panicle is full of nubbins which are rounder, have more prominent lenticils and typically have aborted seeds.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPCNyDzg/1-E765231-4-DD5-4694-AD06-FF272-D9-DFF09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPCNyDzg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/w18DMpf8/AE6-C1-E43-21-D6-4-A7-D-88-CE-5-A64-C44-E93-EC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w18DMpf8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QBS7fWXh/B403-F21-E-F81-D-4-BDB-BF9-E-21-C3379-BB06-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBS7fWXh)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 07, 2020, 01:56:55 PM
Simon, during the early years of a mango seedling in the ground, how many set of leaves should I expect per season please? My seedlings have been kinda slow so I was wondering if it's normal.

I just counted how many leaves are on my E4 seedling that was planted this year and it has 58 matured leaves and 15 new leaves forming at the tip. I included the tiny leaves at the bottom in the leaf count. It’s about 2.5-3 feet tall right now. Here’s a picture
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyhCKHGq/17701-E1-E-2-A22-4-D73-A19-E-F2-B4459-A8727.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyhCKHGq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zVJrrbN9/526-D0-FE5-9409-4850-8-EDB-4-ACBB25-B85-E0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVJrrbN9)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on September 07, 2020, 11:36:39 PM
Thanks simon!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: seanb on September 09, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Hey guys,

Anyone have any tips for a mango that slightly tipped over? I have a seedling that is growing rapidly that I desperately need to stake but Im worried about hurting the roots. It is in the ground if that matters and is about 3ft tall with about a 1/2" thick trunk.

Thanks so much!

Sean
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 09, 2020, 01:32:24 PM
Put multiple stakes in the ground (3 is a good number), spaced away from the trunk and use green tree tape to straighten it up.  You shouldn't really be staking up trees with the stake sitting on the tree.  That makes the tree weak a d dependent on the stakes.  You want to stake it and use tree tape down as low as possible just to straighten it up and let the rest of the tree lignify


Hey guys,

Anyone have any tips for a mango that slightly tipped over? I have a seedling that is growing rapidly that I desperately need to stake but Im worried about hurting the roots. It is in the ground if that matters and is about 3ft tall with about a 1/2" thick trunk.

Thanks so much!

Sean
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on September 09, 2020, 02:58:47 PM
Simon, during the early years of a mango seedling in the ground, how many set of leaves should I expect per season please? My seedlings have been kinda slow so I was wondering if it's normal.

I just counted how many leaves are on my E4 seedling that was planted this year and it has 58 matured leaves and 15 new leaves forming at the tip. I included the tiny leaves at the bottom in the leaf count. It’s about 2.5-3 feet tall right now. Here’s a picture
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyhCKHGq/17701-E1-E-2-A22-4-D73-A19-E-F2-B4459-A8727.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyhCKHGq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zVJrrbN9/526-D0-FE5-9409-4850-8-EDB-4-ACBB25-B85-E0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVJrrbN9)
Simon


WOW!!! I'm super intrigued! 58 + 15. Tell me more about this one please. Is E4 poly? Did you shade it at some point? Did this one ever take a break throughout the year? When exactly was this planted? The trunk at the base is like almost fully lignified! That looks like a beast. Very good job.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 10, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
I forget exactly when I planted The seed but probably around June or July. E4 is sometimes produces poly embryonic seedlings and sometimes mono. I have been giving my trees supplemental Silica supplements in order to stiffen up the branches and thicken up the leaves.

E4 has a coconut tastes that is most noticeable when allowed to fully ripen. The seedlings appear to be decent growers. I also recently grafted actual( non seedling) E4 scions onto my, used to be, Lemon Zest tree.

You can increase lignification by allowing the wind to blow the seedling around and by fertilizing appropriately.

In order to maximize growth of mango trees in SoCal, it is very important to fertilize our trees during the heat of the Summer months. If you use organic fertilizers, you want to give your fertilizer well in advance of the expected growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on September 20, 2020, 07:50:21 PM
Simon

Thanks for keeping this thread and project going.  I’m curious about your efforts on growing direct from seed.   What’s the oldest seedling you have?  Anything that’s flowered yet? 

Looking at your opening post on this thread, it seems you have all the making of an expert - willingness to make more mistakes than anyone else in a narrow field.  I’m talking to a friend, we are bouncing around ideas on the fastest way to get a seedling to fruit.  These include girdling, tipping, grafting a seedling onto a seedling (sounds odd but there is some evidence...), potassium, horizontal branch bending...

Keen to hear more about the Cali experiences
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BoBiscuit on September 20, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
For me the hardest part of getting seedlings started was choking down the storebought mangos we have available here. There was one Tommy Crapkins that was so bad I couldn't finish it. It tasted like a hairy scotch brite pad dipped in turpentine and vomit. I cut the seed out and threw the rest of the fruit (which cost like 3 bucks or something!!) into the compost.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on September 21, 2020, 08:03:17 AM
Simon

Thanks for keeping this thread and project going.  I’m curious about your efforts on growing direct from seed.   What’s the oldest seedling you have?  Anything that’s flowered yet? 

Looking at your opening post on this thread, it seems you have all the making of an expert - willingness to make more mistakes than anyone else in a narrow field.  I’m talking to a friend, we are bouncing around ideas on the fastest way to get a seedling to fruit.  These include girdling, tipping, grafting a seedling onto a seedling (sounds odd but there is some evidence...), potassium, horizontal branch bending...

Keen to hear more about the Cali experiences

Did you probably mean grafting a seedling scion to an established tree?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 21, 2020, 02:32:45 PM
Hey Future,

Here’s a synopsis. My yard is very small so I plant most my mango trees at my friends and relatives houses. I’ve planted so many seedlings that I’ve lost track of many of them. Some have died and some are huge now. Many years ago, I planted out a bunch of Lemon Zest seedlings. Ever since I found out there are so many disease issues with this variety, I have replaced many of them with Sweet Tart and various other seedlings so I had to start over again.

Brads( Spaugh’s) orchard is where I planted a majority of the seedlings and many of them are starting to really take off. We have seedlings of most the newer Zill varieties including both monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties planted out. Ill have to stop by the orchard and take some pictures. Our biggest seedling is probably a Sweet Tart seedling that is nice and bushy with strong upright branching. We have E4, Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, butter Cream, M4, Pina Colada, Fruit Punch, Coconut Cream, Fruit Cocktail, Honey KISS, NDM and many other seedlings planted out.

In my yard, I have a Sweet Tart Seedling that is 4 years old. It was squished in between two large trees and is shaded much of the day but it flowered in 3 years from planting the seed and it flowered again this year( 4 years from seed). This year, I thought I removed all the blooms but one hid under some leaves and I’m allowing it to grow since it was palm size when I discovered it. I’ll take a picture later.

I also have a NDM seedling that flowered in its third or fourth year from planting the seed and it held small fruits which aborted. I grafted over most the branches but I still have one branch from the original seedling.

The Double Stone graft experiments gave me fruiting trees that were too precocious. 12 inch tall trees were blooming and holding fruit which is a very bad thing because it delayed vegetative growth and there was extremely high mortality rate of about 80-90% after 5 years or so.

From the DSG experiments, I used that info and started my California Super mango rootstock experiments. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0)

This CSMR technique gave me the most incredible growth I have seen. Because this technique does Not involve grafting with mature scions, the resulting multiple rootstock tree exploded with growth. Some mistakes that I made are that I kept the seedling trees in much too small of a pot and did not up pot them appropriately.

My CSMR tree was planted at an orchard where It grew like crazy but unfortunately, the gophers and or rabbits had a strong liking to the multiple rootstock trees. Perhaps the multiple rootstock trees have more sap flow/moisture and are preferred over single rootstock trees.

I grew the seedlings in a special root pruning pot which is a critical part of the experiments.

You can use fabric pots or any of the newer root pruning pots or paints. As soon as the pot is filled with roots, it should be up potted to the next larger size of root pruning pot until the plant and/or root mass is large enough for field planting.

This technique gave me the largest rootstock in the shortest amount of time. Getting the largest rootstock is one of the most important factors for maximizing fruit production when growing mango trees in SoCal but this may not be an issue with growing mangos at your location.

Multiple rootstock trees are likely cost and time/labor prohibitive on a commercial scale.

Here in California, we start getting fruit production within a year or two of grafting mature scions.

I still have lots of experiments going and some that ended early because other trusted members of this forum already has proof of concept.

For Example, if you just want to test out seedling varieties for quality of fruit, the fastest way to achieve this is to graft seedling scions onto mature rootstocks.  Cookie Monster grew a bunch of Orange Sherbet seedlings and grafted the seedling scions onto his mature trees. This enabled him to Fruit his seedling trees in the shortest amount of time possible and he was able to prove that his seedling OS trees did produce fruit identical to the true OS and some people that have tasted his fruit say his fruit is perhaps even better than the original OS but his excellent tasting fruit may also be attributable to his great gardening skills and his knowledge of fertilization.

The above was already discussed in literature and Cookie Monster proved it in his climate so that’s good enough for me. I’m still trying to answer questions that are counter to what most the mango growers are looking for.

In my climate, we have no issues with flowering and fruit production(except for specific varieties like LZ) so I’m trying to find a technique that grows the largest tree possible in the shortest amount of time.

I’m still gathering data on what happens if you graft seedling scions onto mature fruiting rootstocks in cold climates and so far, it looks like the grafted scions are able to delay flowering for 1-2 years which is extremely beneficial for growers in colder climates like California.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 21, 2020, 02:58:46 PM
Haha, thanks, I see the resemblance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/56D9HfZz/78952-A10-D6-EE-4418-9-A49-61779-BC486-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56D9HfZz)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 21, 2020, 03:09:53 PM
Here’s a shot of my 4 year old Sweet Tart seedling. The Polyembryonic seed was planted directly into the ground. I now separate my Polyembryonic seedlings so that the trunks don’t push away from each other like it happened here. One of my uglier seedlings. I recently trimmed back the neighboring Pomegranate and huge Lemon Zest tree. I posted more pictures of this tree when it was younger, maybe on this thread but I’m too lazy to look.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKSkM45f/563-DE2-C6-6-A1-B-4-C80-BBB2-086-AD02-CA345.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKSkM45f)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jwYZCnh1/5-AFD0-A34-72-AF-454-D-A8-E1-7-EC8-A26-AD781.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwYZCnh1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FkQgsthX/B3-F9-DD86-D9-F8-454-D-AADB-F1-D1985-ABCF6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FkQgsthX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/H8pz9GR4/D7-DDC9-B8-85-D1-43-D6-B015-8-CC3-A1-FABFE3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8pz9GR4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jCKMbN2w/DE9544-E5-DB87-4-CB9-BA03-2-AA3723-BA475.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCKMbN2w)

I’m surprised it held a fruit considering how small the tree is and the heavy shade it was in before I trimmed back the neighboring trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 21, 2020, 04:01:51 PM
Here’s an Orange Sherbet seedling. I’ll have to look through my posts to see how old it is but I’m guessing it’s around 4 years old from planting the seed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZvLhRStG/DDA3-C27-E-27-EC-47-A1-BCFD-08-C4-F74-B3894.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZvLhRStG)

Here’s the E4 seedling, please ignore all the weeds in my yard. I’ve been volunteering a lot thus year so I’ve been neglecting my own yard.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rKvvksrD/EA77-F9-BA-0-D1-B-4886-8724-C53-DE2-FC375-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKvvksrD)

When I sprouted this E4 seed, two sprouts came up, this one which was growing straight and another that was twisted and scraggly. I separated them early and grafted a scion of the scraggly one onto my multi graft tree. I’m curious to which is the clone and I’m also eager to see how the fruit of the zygotic seedling is considering one of them is zygotic. Here’s the scion after one push.
(https://i.postimg.cc/06d37qyZ/A61-DB5-B9-2-E9-C-4005-A71-D-797-A5-D22-F059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06d37qyZ)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 21, 2020, 04:14:56 PM
Pina Colada is an absolute flavor bomb and is on my top ten list but it does not grow well here according to some interviews with growers around SoCal. I grew out about 30-40 seedlings and selected about 5 seedlings that grew with more vigor and were more disease resistant. Several of these trees are planted at Brads orchard and I grafted a branch onto my multigraft tree. This variety is growing significantly faster when grafted onto mature rootstocks. I recently grafted this scion and hopefully will get fruit from it in the coming years. I’m hoping that it won’t flower this Winter.


(https://i.postimg.cc/4nqgfs7h/9-ADBAB9-B-1711-4990-BD71-1-CA67-F634-A2-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nqgfs7h)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on September 21, 2020, 04:18:03 PM
Simon

Thanks for keeping this thread and project going.  I’m curious about your efforts on growing direct from seed.   What’s the oldest seedling you have?  Anything that’s flowered yet? 

Looking at your opening post on this thread, it seems you have all the making of an expert - willingness to make more mistakes than anyone else in a narrow field.  I’m talking to a friend, we are bouncing around ideas on the fastest way to get a seedling to fruit.  These include girdling, tipping, grafting a seedling onto a seedling (sounds odd but there is some evidence...), potassium, horizontal branch bending...

Keen to hear more about the Cali experiences

Did you probably mean grafting a seedling scion to an established tree?

Good catch. I actually meant to include both onto a mature tree (a proven approach) and seedling on rootstock (early evidence shows some promise) but it’s not yet firm.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on September 21, 2020, 10:00:29 PM
Hey Future,

Here’s a synopsis. My yard is very small so I plant most my mango trees at my friends and relatives houses. I’ve planted so many seedlings that I’ve lost track of many of them. Some have died and some are huge now. Many years ago, I planted out a bunch of Lemon Zest seedlings. Ever since I found out there are so many disease issues with this variety, I have replaced many of them with Sweet Tart and various other seedlings so I had to start over again.

Brads( Spaugh’s) orchard is where I planted a majority of the seedlings and many of them are starting to really take off. We have seedlings of most the newer Zill varieties including both monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties planted out. Ill have to stop by the orchard and take some pictures. Our biggest seedling is probably a Sweet Tart seedling that is nice and bushy with strong upright branching. We have E4, Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, butter Cream, M4, Pina Colada, Fruit Punch, Coconut Cream, Fruit Cocktail, Honey KISS, NDM and many other seedlings planted out.

In my yard, I have a Sweet Tart Seedling that is 4 years old. It was squished in between two large trees and is shaded much of the day but it flowered in 3 years from planting the seed and it flowered again this year( 4 years from seed). This year, I thought I removed all the blooms but one hid under some leaves and I’m allowing it to grow since it was palm size when I discovered it. I’ll take a picture later.

I also have a NDM seedling that flowered in its third or fourth year from planting the seed and it held small fruits which aborted. I grafted over most the branches but I still have one branch from the original seedling.

The Double Stone graft experiments gave me fruiting trees that were too precocious. 12 inch tall trees were blooming and holding fruit which is a very bad thing because it delayed vegetative growth and there was extremely high mortality rate of about 80-90% after 5 years or so.

From the DSG experiments, I used that info and started my California Super mango rootstock experiments. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20852.0)

This CSMR technique gave me the most incredible growth I have seen. Because this technique does Not involve grafting with mature scions, the resulting multiple rootstock tree exploded with growth. Some mistakes that I made are that I kept the seedling trees in much too small of a pot and did not up pot them appropriately.

My CSMR tree was planted at an orchard where It grew like crazy but unfortunately, the gophers and or rabbits had a strong liking to the multiple rootstock trees. Perhaps the multiple rootstock trees have more sap flow/moisture and are preferred over single rootstock trees.

I grew the seedlings in a special root pruning pot which is a critical part of the experiments.

You can use fabric pots or any of the newer root pruning pots or paints. As soon as the pot is filled with roots, it should be up potted to the next larger size of root pruning pot until the plant and/or root mass is large enough for field planting.

This technique gave me the largest rootstock in the shortest amount of time. Getting the largest rootstock is one of the most important factors for maximizing fruit production when growing mango trees in SoCal but this may not be an issue with growing mangos at your location.

Multiple rootstock trees are likely cost and time/labor prohibitive on a commercial scale.

Here in California, we start getting fruit production within a year or two of grafting mature scions.

I still have lots of experiments going and some that ended early because other trusted members of this forum already has proof of concept.

For Example, if you just want to test out seedling varieties for quality of fruit, the fastest way to achieve this is to graft seedling scions onto mature rootstocks.  Cookie Monster grew a bunch of Orange Sherbet seedlings and grafted the seedling scions onto his mature trees. This enabled him to Fruit his seedling trees in the shortest amount of time possible and he was able to prove that his seedling OS trees did produce fruit identical to the true OS and some people that have tasted his fruit say his fruit is perhaps even better than the original OS but his excellent tasting fruit may also be attributable to his great gardening skills and his knowledge of fertilization.

The above was already discussed in literature and Cookie Monster proved it in his climate so that’s good enough for me. I’m still trying to answer questions that are counter to what most the mango growers are looking for.

In my climate, we have no issues with flowering and fruit production(except for specific varieties like LZ) so I’m trying to find a technique that grows the largest tree possible in the shortest amount of time.

I’m still gathering data on what happens if you graft seedling scions onto mature fruiting rootstocks in cold climates and so far, it looks like the grafted scions are able to delay flowering for 1-2 years which is extremely beneficial for growers in colder climates like California.

Simon

What’s up Simon. Excellent summary.  Thanks for CSMR reminder. I read it with interest. You are 4 years into CSMR now.  What would you say has been the most successful aspect, lessons learned?

Btw I’ve met up with Cookie Monster several times and his yard defines incredible.  His OS growth rate is unreal. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Itay Gazit on September 22, 2020, 07:32:42 PM
Hi Simon, Brad,

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Couple of years back I got bunch of different seeds. After the seeds sprouted I did overwater them and most of them died except one seedling which was probably Jacartia. Do you have experience with Jacartia seedling? Maybe it's less sensetive to root rot.

Except SweetTart which of the seedlings did good? I noticed CC has a tap root.

Thank you
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2020, 01:07:11 PM
Hey Abayomi,

The take away is that Grafting the seedlings together increases growth and just one or two additional rootstocks is enough. Don’t graft mature scions onto the multiple rootstock trees until they reach fruiting size. Root pruning pots and paints are definitely beneficial for increasing root mass, especially the finer feeder roots. Up potting at the appropriate time is critical to keep the plant in a constant growth phase.

Alternatively, you can graft seedling scions onto mature trees to induce precocity.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2020, 01:10:10 PM
Hi Simon, Brad,

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Couple of years back I got bunch of different seeds. After the seeds sprouted I did overwater them and most of them died except one seedling which was probably Jacartia. Do you have experience with Jacartia seedling? Maybe it's less sensetive to root rot.

Except SweetTart which of the seedlings did good? I noticed CC has a tap root.

Thank you

I don’t think we have seen any patterns with a specific variety of seedling that has better or worse resistance to root rot but the literature I posted somewhere showed that there were I believe 2 rootstocks from non Indica species of Mangifera with increased tolerance to set soils.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
nice to see your trees

I have a lot more trees in the backyard but my backyard is so over run with weeds that it’s difficult to see my trees. In my front yard, at least you can make out the shape of the trees!

Here’s a double rootstock Sweet Tart. I do not recommend this technique of Double Stone Grafting for California because it increases precocity too much. The tree stays short and bushy if it survives.
(https://i.postimg.cc/14PhT4mr/01519059-8-F8-E-4346-91-C1-D7-E0938-AD96-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14PhT4mr)

Here is my original DSGed tree. One of the rootstocks died back and left me with a lot of lower scaffold branches. I grafted all the branches, around 15-20 grafts. Most are Real Sweet Tart but there’s also Sweet Tart Seedling #1, ST seedling #2, Orange Sherbet Seedling #1, OS seedling #2, Cotton Candy, PPK, Lemon Zest, Peach Cobbler and a few others

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2bsHqRY/FBA3-FCD9-633-D-495-A-A937-B157-DC6485-BC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2bsHqRY)

And here is what I’ve been suggesting to everyone growing Mangos in California. Grow a seedling or purchase a Lavern Manilla mango rootstock and top work it when it gets to the appropriate size. This is a Po Pyu Kalay on Lavern Manilla rootstock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cd3gNJZd/C136-A618-0-A33-4383-BC78-C92-DBF6-E89-AB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cd3gNJZd)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on September 23, 2020, 06:29:32 PM
Incredible work Simon.  Variations from location to location make for such interesting approaches. I’m largely restricted to growing from seed keen to I’m keen to incorporate double rootstocks and CSMR into our regime.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on September 23, 2020, 08:00:06 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/XGbKyYyV/735-C9-D79-6600-40-D8-A5-B1-12900-DF2721-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGbKyYyV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBx8Pzr6/9-E5-D4-F7-C-2033-41-F8-8-A50-E03-AB7-BB355-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBx8Pzr6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sGfpwHcq/C37-E6817-50-AE-4-CAF-AF7-B-8-E9943-ACF6-B7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sGfpwHcq)

I’ve been having fun this year with mangoes and getting much better results. My diamond grafted turpentine exploded vegetatively and took a nice wide shape. Planted out a ton of Florida seedlings and they were all rootbound in their 1 gallons - now in 5s. I too worked the diamond and will add another 4 peach cobbler scions on in the next week.

Also you can see the base of my future hoop house which seems will be very needed for winter cold. The snow on the mango last year was cute and all, but too stressful.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on September 23, 2020, 11:31:46 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/XGbKyYyV/735-C9-D79-6600-40-D8-A5-B1-12900-DF2721-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGbKyYyV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBx8Pzr6/9-E5-D4-F7-C-2033-41-F8-8-A50-E03-AB7-BB355-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBx8Pzr6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sGfpwHcq/C37-E6817-50-AE-4-CAF-AF7-B-8-E9943-ACF6-B7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sGfpwHcq)

I’ve been having fun this year with mangoes and getting much better results. My diamond grafted turpentine exploded vegetatively and took a nice wide shape. Planted out a ton of Florida seedlings and they were all rootbound in their 1 gallons - now in 5s. I too worked the diamond and will add another 4 peach cobbler scions on in the next week.

Also you can see the base of my future hoop house which seems will be very needed for winter cold. The snow on the mango last year was cute and all, but too stressful.

is that buddy tape you are using? if so, the wrap is not correct and not stretched correctly for maximum benefits of sealing moisture.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on September 24, 2020, 01:08:16 PM
I am not sure if it's buddy tape. These were prepared by JF. The one I took a photo of appears to be pushing already... I will wrap them all tighter, I see some desiccation on some others.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 24, 2020, 02:40:26 PM
Heres some pics of Simons mango block that we planted at my house.  Theres around 50 mango trees on 15'x15' spacing. About 40 are various seedlings ungrafted.  A few florida grafted trees are doing well, the seedling trees grow faster though.  Ive done very little for these trees, they are on a sprinkler timer and get fertilized avocado fertilizer 3 times each hot season.  And trim them back to ~16" shoots and tipping below the tightly spaces top nodes.  Then thin back the new shoots to 3 new branches per cut.  This keeps them perky so they dont get top heavy and droopy.  If theres any weak trees or infected trees, they get yanked and replaced.  Ive probably yanked 20% of the trees and replanted.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7/20200924-111949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L/20200924-111923.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L)

Orange sherbet seedling 2016 or 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc/20200924-111442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc)

Sweet tart seedling 2016 sprout.  This one made a couple flower panicles in winter 2019/20
(https://i.postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5/20200924-111217.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5)

Taralay on turpintine from FL.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XGD04RD7/20200924-111140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGD04RD7)

Taralay and sweet tart half and half grafted tree on manilla rootstock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TypzQ73z/20200924-111036.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TypzQ73z)

COC seed 2018 sprouted
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG/20200924-110952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG)

J12 seed 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn/J12-summer-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: seanb on September 24, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
This is the best damn thread on.the.internet. KEEP IT UP EVERYONE!!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on September 24, 2020, 03:35:19 PM
Wow Brad those put on a ton of veg since I saw them last! Great work.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 24, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
Thanks, maybe we will even get a couple fruit next year.  Im thinking after year 7 or 8 they should start to make a real crop.  Mangos in CA require a ton of patience.  And also willingness to trash a plant and start over if necessary.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on September 24, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Great job Brad, seedlings are looking fantastic !
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on September 24, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
you would  plant multiple seeds to pick the strongest seedling but not because fear of failed graft.....once you pick the strong one and let it grow..... top work it and  multiple new branches should emerge graft a  couple and you should have a couple branches to spare.   I got lucky all 3 took but even if it didnt you see I had back up. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzvW18X/received-1903985876575567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzvW18X)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf/received-286408538672712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf)

Your rootstock looks big and the trunk is quite thick.  How old you let it grow before you start grafting new scions onto it?  Thanks
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on September 24, 2020, 07:03:54 PM
Heres some pics of Simons mango block that we planted at my house.  Theres around 50 mango trees on 15'x15' spacing. About 40 are various seedlings ungrafted.  A few florida grafted trees are doing well, the seedling trees grow faster though.  Ive done very little for these trees, they are on a sprinkler timer and get fertilized avocado fertilizer 3 times each hot season.  And trim them back to ~16" shoots and tipping below the tightly spaces top nodes.  Then thin back the new shoots to 3 new branches per cut.  This keeps them perky so they dont get top heavy and droopy.  If theres any weak trees or infected trees, they get yanked and replaced.  Ive probably yanked 20% of the trees and replanted.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7/20200924-111949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L/20200924-111923.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L)

Orange sherbet seedling 2016 or 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc/20200924-111442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc)

Sweet tart seedling 2016 sprout.  This one made a couple flower panicles in winter 2019/20
(https://i.postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5/20200924-111217.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5)

Taralay on turpintine from FL.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XGD04RD7/20200924-111140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGD04RD7)

Taralay and sweet tart half and half grafted tree on manilla rootstock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TypzQ73z/20200924-111036.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TypzQ73z)

COC seed 2018 sprouted
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG/20200924-110952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG)

J12 seed 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn/J12-summer-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn)

Absolutely incredible.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on September 24, 2020, 11:08:27 PM
Brad, you may have answered this before but do you provide any cold protection for your seedlings during the winter?  I live in a similar climate to you and have planted out a large number of mango seedlings in ground.   Lost a few to the chill last year, but they were mostly the weaklings.  Trying to determine if there is anything else I can do this winter in case of a rare cold front so that I can protect my 1-2 year old seedling plants.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 24, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
No, it doesnt get cold enough to kill them here.  The long cold season makes them get a little beat up but not enough to die unless they get an infection. 

I dont use any protection or sprays or anything, just let the weak ones die and keep the strong ones.  Nursing along weak trees in a marginal climate won't really get better with age.

The thing here is the hill is so high all the cold air drains down, theres solid frost 500ft away at the neighbors house at the bottom of the hill.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2020, 11:59:21 PM
Thanks for posting the pictures Brad! Sometimes you will get some seedlings or grafted trees that just won’t grow and it’s just not worth the time when it’s so easy to just plant another tree there that will hopefully grow better. The soil on Brads property is incredible with excellent drainage and he gets significantly more heat units than I get at my house.

Now that some of these trees have established their root systems, they should just take off. I can’t wait for some of these to start producing!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FruitFool on September 25, 2020, 11:03:24 AM
Your trees are looking great, Brad!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on September 25, 2020, 01:00:47 PM
Thanks for the response guys.  Makes sense not to waste time on the weak sprouts.  This is turning out to be a long growing season.  The upcoming heat wave should push another round of growth for the trees.  Water will be key with expected winds and low humidity!  Several of my trees have some crispy leaves after the last heat wave that pushed temps above 110 in my area.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on September 25, 2020, 01:52:02 PM
Heres some pics of Simons mango block that we planted at my house.  Theres around 50 mango trees on 15'x15' spacing. About 40 are various seedlings ungrafted.  A few florida grafted trees are doing well, the seedling trees grow faster though.  Ive done very little for these trees, they are on a sprinkler timer and get fertilized avocado fertilizer 3 times each hot season.  And trim them back to ~16" shoots and tipping below the tightly spaces top nodes.  Then thin back the new shoots to 3 new branches per cut.  This keeps them perky so they dont get top heavy and droopy.  If theres any weak trees or infected trees, they get yanked and replaced.  Ive probably yanked 20% of the trees and replanted.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7/20200924-111949.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXMSTNZ7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L/20200924-111923.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp1XN31L)

Orange sherbet seedling 2016 or 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc/20200924-111442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2xZQjwc)

Sweet tart seedling 2016 sprout.  This one made a couple flower panicles in winter 2019/20
(https://i.postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5/20200924-111217.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnhMKLN5)

Taralay on turpintine from FL.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XGD04RD7/20200924-111140.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGD04RD7)

Taralay and sweet tart half and half grafted tree on manilla rootstock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TypzQ73z/20200924-111036.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TypzQ73z)

COC seed 2018 sprouted
(https://i.postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG/20200924-110952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFSfv0zG)

J12 seed 2017 sprout
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn/J12-summer-18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkWnXvNn)

Brad,
Thank-you for sharing.  "Pictures are worth a thousand words"  The Turpentine rootstock is doing quite well.  I imagine that you may have some "critter issues" (rabbits, gophers, squirrels, chipmunks, rats).  Do you do anything to control them?

Tony   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 25, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Theres a deer fence around the orchard that keeps rabbit and deer out. 

For gophers, I trap them whenever I see a mound and have them under control.  Theres 0 in the orchard at the moment.  Same for squirrels, leave a trap out and put some fruit in it and they get trapped and shot. 

Rats and mice are abundant but they don't do too much damage.  They too can be trapped with snap traps but they just keep coming.  Everything is being kept under control with minimal efforts.  Theres a healthy ecosystem with many species of snakes, coyotes, and birds of prey here also.  And we free range chickens and ducks that eat bugs.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: joe_OC on September 25, 2020, 05:25:50 PM
Getting intrigued with mangos for Southern California.  Here is a video of mango trees in Phoenix, AZ for insperation.  Some are 40 ft tall/25 years old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57YGE1oMbg&ab_channel=ShamusO%27Leary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57YGE1oMbg&ab_channel=ShamusO%27Leary)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 26, 2020, 03:15:53 AM
Getting intrigued with mangos for Southern California.  Here is a video of mango trees in Phoenix, AZ for insperation.  Some are 40 ft tall/25 years old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57YGE1oMbg&ab_channel=ShamusO%27Leary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57YGE1oMbg&ab_channel=ShamusO%27Leary)

I saw that video a while back and those huge mango trees are amazing. We have a bunch of huge trees like that in SoCal also and I’ve posted the pictures of Leos huge seedling trees that have been top worked.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 26, 2020, 09:55:38 PM
Really cool Simon. Good to see photos of your seedling mango trees planted more inland with more heat hours. You and I are more in the coastal zone so our growth will be somewhat less overall. I have many of the same varieties you plant but I grafted mine to Ataulfo or Mexican manila seedling. So far they are doing well with excellent 2020 growth so far. Will post some photos of my trees in October after they finish their current growth flushes.

Enclosed are some photos for a mango seedling tree in Alhambra (just south of Pasadena) that is quite large. It is the largest seedling tree I have seen hear in California but I don't know what type it is.

Thanks for your input and advice over the years. It got me started in mango grafting and propagation in 2016.

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/gnLQ2czg/8-U1-A3287-Large-Mango-Tree-in-Corner-Lot-in-Summer-8-22-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnLQ2czg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ts0fZ07p/8-U1-A3290-Large-Mango-Tree-in-Corner-Lot-in-Summer-8-22-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts0fZ07p)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LJzWjyZf/8-U1-A3298-Large-Mango-Tree-in-Corner-Lot-in-Summer-8-22-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJzWjyZf)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on September 27, 2020, 05:26:05 PM
You can read through the old threads like this one here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437)
There wasn’t a lot of info last years but the years prior to 2019 has lots of good info regarding members favorite varieties for each given year.

This thread is a bit more relevant with a bit of info regarding the best tasting and reliable Mangos for SoCal.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?
topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770)

Some of the best tasting varieties like Lemon Zest, hardly produce here( without spraying) because of disease issues.

Sweet Tart,Venus, CAC, Edward, Peach Cobbler, NDM, Gary, Carrie and several other varieties have proven to be productive over several years of observations and at various locations around SoCal. Other varieties that are promising but lacking data are Cotton Candy, E4, Juicy Peach.

Leo Manuel also has multiple good to excellent tasting varieties that are productive in areas with high fungal disease pressures.

Simon
Any particular mango varieties growing well in Oxnard, Ventura county area?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on September 27, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Here are some updates to some seedling mangos that Brad and I planted at the orchard. We initially planted a bunch of Florida trees because they were already purchased before Brad and I partnered up but most eventually died and the few remaining trees are either stunted or so droopy and diseased that were probably going to just pull them all out if Brad hasn’t already done so.

These are some seedling trees, some from Polyembryonic seeds, some from Monoembryonic seeds. The seedling trees tend to have a nice, upright structure that is not droopy. Most these trees are only a year or two old, I think the biggest one is 2-3 years old.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39/2-D1985-BD-B3-D6-4213-A381-EEFCF468-FF01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ/7-B51-FD11-98-A3-4268-A937-519-CC373-C7-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwfq89x/E05-A080-C-7-DAF-47-A1-8838-E7-B31-D2022-EB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwfq89x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKFystKs/F4-CEC5-CA-1096-4-D5-E-B215-6400183137-CF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKFystKs)
Simon

Simon, any of mango in the  photos has multiple rootstocks?   Also what variety of the mango growing from seed in the first photo?  It has very pretty nice foliage without any signs of fungal disease or anthranose.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 27, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
All of the varieties I listed should produce in Ventura as long as you’re not in a cold or wet pocket. I don’t recall what that first seedling is.

We planted a nice California Super Mango Rootstock tree with about five rootstocks on it and it grew like crazy but unfortunately the gophers had a liking to it. That was a few years ago and the gophers are gone now but so is the super rootstock. I believe we still have one or two double rootstock tree that was not grafted with mature scions.

In California, innarching two seedlings together is fine as long as you don’t graft mature scions onto it.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on September 27, 2020, 07:13:26 PM
Has anyone ever experiment trying to rid all matured leaves from the first year growth of the seedlings in order to promote a faster growth rate?  I suspect that if all matured leaves are all gone, the roots will send all of the nutrients/energy to purge on the new growth. 
  Cham
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 27, 2020, 07:23:20 PM
Hey Cham, I have not tried that but it would be interesting to see what happens. I would guess that without leaves, there would be little stored energy for much root or shoot growth after one push of leaves. It may also leave the tree in a weakened state. If you try it, please post your results. Did you read this on a research article?

You can also get taller plants by light deprivation but the growth will be lanky and weak. It’s called etoliation.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on September 27, 2020, 08:01:22 PM
No.  The first set of matured leaves on one of my seedlings had some damages.  So I cut all but left 2 heathy leaves on it.  A few days later, new shoot started to emerge and hardened.  It seems to grow faster than the others seedlings.

Growing mango is new to me, but I will get this trial going and report the result.

Cham
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: kicksavedave on October 09, 2020, 11:33:15 PM
Brad, you may have answered this before but do you provide any cold protection for your seedlings during the winter?  I live in a similar climate to you and have planted out a large number of mango seedlings in ground.   Lost a few to the chill last year, but they were mostly the weaklings.  Trying to determine if there is anything else I can do this winter in case of a rare cold front so that I can protect my 1-2 year old seedling plants.

OK I'm not Brad, but I have solved this problem after a bad frost a couple years back damaged some of my young avocado trees. When I was traveling for work, I returned home to find major frost damage on the young avocados so I set out to find a solution which would work even if I am not home.

I already had a personal weather station (PWS) which gave me the temperature right in my grove, literally in the middle of the avocado section.  I bought an outdoor  "smart outlet", and set up an IFTTT account - IFTTT is a website (If This Then That) that lets users easily create an "applet" that automates one action based on one other input.  In my case I set up an applet that turns on the smart outlet when the PWS temp drops below 35F.   I connected the smart outlet to a string of old incandescent christmas lights and wrapped them around the young avocados.   The strings are 175 watts each, but you can daisy chain them of course to get more heat.   So now in my grove, when the temp in the avocado section drops below 35, the lights come on and produce heat for the young trees.   IFTTT turns them off when the temp rises above 35 again.     IFTTT is free for simple users like this and only a few $ per month for very complex users, creating this one applet would be free.

A PWS is about $175-200.  A smart outlet is $20-30 on Amazon.  Lights and extension cords are maybe $50-100 depending on what you have lying around.  A PWS is not actually required but without your own you are depending on a weather station nearby which may be unreliable or may not match your micro climate in your yard.  You can use Weather underground's closest station to trigger IFTTT but I wanted control so I use my own PWS. 

I use the PWS and IFTTT to also automate my sprinkler timer (Rachio) so that if the temp rises above 105, the Avocado's get an extra watering session.  Kept them all cool and happy through the multiple 115+ degree days we had in Sept.

Hope this helps anyone who is looking for a solution to keep Mango's thriving when it gets cold out.  If you have questions feel free to ping me and I will help you out, this sort of automation is super easy but its also my day job, so if you have questions, just ask.   I've read this whole thread and I really appreciate the info here... I'll be doing a little more research then stopping by again for some feedback/questions.   Til then, happy growing.

/Dave
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: slopat on October 10, 2020, 01:28:54 PM
Home automation and using web services is awesome.

The HC11,8031/51, rs422 linking systems (remote telemetry) are ancient compared to Pi and wifi, plus internet! Python rocks over basic and C :)

But for cheapskates like me. There are other available plug and play solutions.

Inkbird ITC-308 Digital Temperature Controller 2-Stage Outlet Thermostat Heating and Cooling Mode (https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Max-1200W-Temperature-Controller-Greenhouse/dp/B01HXM5UAC/ref=asc_df_B01HXM5UAC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198101685250&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13467990751077281745&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014232&hvtargid=pla-318107594620&psc=1)

Or even cheaper. (Amazon or HomeDepot)
120 VAC/15A Thermo Cube Thermostatically Controlled Double Outlet (https://www.homedepot.com/p/120-VAC-15A-Thermo-Cube-Thermostatically-Controlled-Double-Outlet-TC3/100210525)

I think someone here or another forum have posted about them before. The big risks besides no power is no internet/web services. With this WFH, its been a super pain when offline be it MS auth breaking last week, webex overloads, or backhoes digging up fiber.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 10, 2020, 06:19:30 PM
Great post Dave and nice setup. I hadn’t considered setting up a personal weather station...until now. I’m the kind of data nerd that would get a kick out of microclimate weather data on my farm. Not sure I’m willing go as far as automating a climate control system to the data, even if we are only talking about X-mas lights, as my mango seedlings are too numerous and planting area too extensive. I am in the process of automating some water stations. This sounds ideal for tracking heat waves with responsive irrigation.  I like it!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: bizarrogir on October 30, 2020, 03:05:29 PM
I would like try growing a mango tree in Long Beach, and after reading through this thread it looks like mango seedlings are the best way to go. Is there somewhere I can go around Los Angeles/OC to buy different varieties of the fruits (for seeds) or do I need to order seeds online? I know there are tons of mango varieties available at stands in Florida, but I've never seen any varieties other than Alfonso or the regular Mexican mangoes here. Is it easier to just plant a manila and then learn how to graft?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RodneyS on October 30, 2020, 03:17:01 PM
I would like try growing a mango tree in Long Beach, and after reading through this thread it looks like mango seedlings are the best way to go. Is there somewhere I can go around Los Angeles/OC to buy different varieties of the fruits (for seeds) or do I need to order seeds online? I know there are tons of mango varieties available at stands in Florida, but I've never seen any varieties other than Alfonso or the regular Mexican mangoes here. Is it easier to just plant a manila and then learn how to graft?

Buy Ataulfo/Manila, Kent & Keitt mangoes from the supermarket, then plant the seeds.  Watch videos on cleft grafting, and buy grafting tape ( Parafilm, Buddy tape) and a grafting knife or a razor blade.  Source mango scionwood from other members.  You can also purchase scion at tropicalacresfarms.com (http://tropicalacresfarms.com) in the summer.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on October 30, 2020, 07:22:21 PM
I would like try growing a mango tree in Long Beach, and after reading through this thread it looks like mango seedlings are the best way to go. Is there somewhere I can go around Los Angeles/OC to buy different varieties of the fruits (for seeds) or do I need to order seeds online? I know there are tons of mango varieties available at stands in Florida, but I've never seen any varieties other than Alfonso or the regular Mexican mangoes here. Is it easier to just plant a manila and then learn how to graft?

Join the Mango Growers of America and California Mango Growers community in facebook. Many members are kind enough to give away seeds for free or just a little shipping fee.
Some mango varieties grow well in California on turpentine rootstock. I have a Sweet Tart on turpentine that grows like weed. My friend grows healthy Malika and Glenn on turpentine for 15 years.
If you can graft is a great benefit, I failed so many times that I wasted a lot of money. Finally I decided to just buy varieties of grafted trees on turpentine that grows well here from Florida.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 30, 2020, 10:24:54 PM
Yes, I agree with RodneyS.

Right now is not the best time to start seeds unless you have a greenhouse or some other means of keeping the soil temperature warm but if you are able to germinate some seeds and keep the alive through Winter, they will have a nice head tart for next year.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on November 01, 2020, 07:18:56 PM
Hello everyone,
I have a question,  I have several recent mango grafts that are now starting to push panicles.  Should I trim them before they start to flower?  I didn't expect to see panicles this early (or late in the season).  The two varieties pushing panicles are Maha and NDM.  I don't expect these panicles to successfully produce fruit...especially just before winter.
Cheers,
Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: bizarrogir on November 01, 2020, 09:45:59 PM
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on November 16, 2020, 05:35:38 PM
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/23S2CHDH/8-U1-A5367-Coconut-Cream-Mango-Tree-in-Mid-Fall-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23S2CHDH)
Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0/8-U1-A5413-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mallika-Mango-Tree-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0)
Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC/8-U1-A5431-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mango-Tree-with-Excellent-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC)
Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhH25f2x/8-U1-A5444-Lemon-Zest-Mango-Tree-after-Fall-Flush-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhH25f2x)
Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv/8-U1-A5454-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-with-Lush-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv)
Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT/8-U1-A5401-Brewster-Lychee-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT)
Brewster Lychee Tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM/8-U1-A5440-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM)
Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RodneyS on November 16, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?

For the Ataulfo, if you're using them for rootstock, then it doesn't matter.  Grow as many seedlings as you plan to graft, either in the near or distant future.  Youtube "mango cleft grafting".  If the graft fails, the scionwood will rot, but the rootstock will still be alive, so can be used to graft, again.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RollingInTheWeeds on November 16, 2020, 09:38:13 PM
Johnny Eat Fruit, thanks a lot for sharing your photos and experience.  You're making some of us awful damn jealous, but it's probably a good jealousy.  If we're able to grow mangoes, you've shown that we can add mango trees without abandoning every shred of aesthetics we have.  Your yard looks great!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 16, 2020, 11:48:45 PM
Hello everyone,
I have a question,  I have several recent mango grafts that are now starting to push panicles.  Should I trim them before they start to flower?  I didn't expect to see panicles this early (or late in the season).  The two varieties pushing panicles are Maha and NDM.  I don't expect these panicles to successfully produce fruit...especially just before winter.
Cheers,
Tony

Hey Tony,

Since your grafts are recent, I would recommend not letting them hold fruit for at least one year. Do not remove the blooms as soon as they appear. If you remove the blooms now, it will re-bloom. It’s best to let the bloom panicles form to full size or close to full size and then remove about 50-80% of the panicles to take off some of the weight.

The remaining 20-50% of the panicles will probably set some fruit. Allow the fruit to continue forming until they reach about the size of your thumb. Once they get this size, clip off the entire panicle. They really start pulling a lot of energy from the tree as the fruit begins to size up after this. Hopefully by this time, the weather is warm enough that once you prune off these fruit, the next flush will be vegetative.

For early varieties, there is a good chance that even after you remove the thumb sized fruit, the weather will still be too cold and your tree will bloom again. If this happens, repeat the procedure again except this time, you will remove the blooms/fruit when average nightly lows are above about 62F. Instead of tracking temps, you can also observe when your other mango trees begin to grow vegetatively. When you see your mango trees, or a neighbors mango tree growing vegetatively, it’s probably safe to remove the fruit/bloom panicles.

Tony, if your rootstock is large, your tree may produce fruit from this bloom but there is a possibility that your graft will die back the following year. The larger and healthier your tree, the less likely it will die back. I recommend that SoCal mango growers not allow their grafts to fruit for one or two years.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on November 16, 2020, 11:49:44 PM
 Havested my first ever mango this week.  The tree was planted 3 years ago and has gotten quite large.  Its a "winters" mango. Nice size, its almost 1.5 pounds.  Hopefully its soft for the fruit party. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/jqP0gsnD/20201111-135528.jpg)


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 17, 2020, 12:01:19 AM
RodneyS, palingkecil, simon_grow, thank you for the advice. It looks like Ataulfo is polyembyronic. When I grow the seedlings do I need to figure out which one is the clone or does it not matter if I'm planning to graft on top? Also, how many seedlings do I need to grow? Is grafting difficult? If I fail will the whole thing die or will I be able to try again on the same root?

Hello Bizzarogir,

If you plant an Ataulfo and plan to topwork it, you don’t need to select the clone. I would separate any seedlings that are easy to separate, just to give them more room to grow. If you can’t separate them, just plant them and allow them to grow until you can obviously see which seedlings are the strongest and most vigorous growing.

You may want to keep your strongest two or three seedlings in case any of your grafts fail. Grafting is relatively easy, especially if you’re detail oriented. It’s easy to watch a few YouTube videos and practice on any branches you have in your yard.

For any given seedling, you can graft onto it multiple times if you plan ahead. For example, if you have a typical 3-4 feet tall Lavern Manilla mango from Home Depot, you can cleft graft the top and put on additional bud or veneer grafts lower down the tree.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 17, 2020, 12:08:16 AM
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/23S2CHDH/8-U1-A5367-Coconut-Cream-Mango-Tree-in-Mid-Fall-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23S2CHDH)
Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0/8-U1-A5413-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mallika-Mango-Tree-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0)
Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC/8-U1-A5431-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mango-Tree-with-Excellent-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC)
Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhH25f2x/8-U1-A5444-Lemon-Zest-Mango-Tree-after-Fall-Flush-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhH25f2x)
Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv/8-U1-A5454-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-with-Lush-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv)
Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT/8-U1-A5401-Brewster-Lychee-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT)
Brewster Lychee Tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM/8-U1-A5440-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM)
Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Johnny, your trees are looking amazing! The trunks and branches of your tree look really strong and the shape looks perfect. Hopefully you will be rewarded with lots of top quality fruit soon. Please keep us updated on the progress of your trees!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on November 17, 2020, 11:11:32 AM
My trees have grown pretty well the past 2 years, although I haven't been on top of pruning. Seedlings definitely grow best, but some varieties like lemon zest and orange essence and Ambrosia have grown very well for me. My best fruit this year has been pina colada (brix 27-30, ripe in November) and cac (brix 26, ripe in October). Coconut cream had brix 16 but still carried its flavor well. Taralay alwa had been brix about 15, good texture and flavor just OK. Ambrosia I believe is not true Ambrosia, got it from plantogram. M4 has put out lots of fruit which I harvested early last week prior to ripening... I picked early because I figured our Temps were dropping and they wouldn't get any better, will report later. Overall, I was disappointed until tasting the Pina colada and cac. There's hope for next year. For comparison, I had picked 1 Pina colada 1 month ago, brix about 16 and not anything special. 1 month later - fantastic taste. Orange sherbet put out several mangos but the ones I've tried so far haven't been anything special either. I chalk it up to young trees. I'm planning on changing my fertilization and watering practices next spring and expecting better quality fruit next year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 17, 2020, 10:08:26 PM
Havested my first ever mango this week.  The tree was planted 3 years ago and has gotten quite large.  Its a "winters" mango. Nice size, its almost 1.5 pounds.  Hopefully its soft for the fruit party. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/jqP0gsnD/20201111-135528.jpg)

Hopefully it will ripen properly for the tasting! I remember that tree was growing really well. If the fruit quality isn’t up to par, I can top work it to a newer Zill variety.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 18, 2020, 12:28:51 PM
My trees have grown pretty well the past 2 years, although I haven't been on top of pruning. Seedlings definitely grow best, but some varieties like lemon zest and orange essence and Ambrosia have grown very well for me. My best fruit this year has been pina colada (brix 27-30, ripe in November) and cac (brix 26, ripe in October). Coconut cream had brix 16 but still carried its flavor well. Taralay alwa had been brix about 15, good texture and flavor just OK. Ambrosia I believe is not true Ambrosia, got it from plantogram. M4 has put out lots of fruit which I harvested early last week prior to ripening... I picked early because I figured our Temps were dropping and they wouldn't get any better, will report later. Overall, I was disappointed until tasting the Pina colada and cac. There's hope for next year. For comparison, I had picked 1 Pina colada 1 month ago, brix about 16 and not anything special. 1 month later - fantastic taste. Orange sherbet put out several mangos but the ones I've tried so far haven't been anything special either. I chalk it up to young trees. I'm planning on changing my fertilization and watering practices next spring and expecting better quality fruit next year.

CA Hockey,

Sounds like you had a decent harvest this year. I had several Ambrosia this year and they were ok but not impressive.

Seedling trees are by far the most vigorous growers for us here in SoCal because of the lack of florigenic hormones due to the juvenility of the trees. Seedling trees will not bloom for at least several years which allows them to grow vegetatively and 100% of the energy gets put to extending its root system and canopy.

I cannot convey enough how much energy is wasted by our grafted mango trees in an attempt to flower and fruit. A young grafted mango tree that is 3 feet tall with fewer than 50 leaves in many instances will flower about 3 times in its first winter. All that wasted energy spent on a fruitless effort is then deducted from the trees resources and the young tree will now only be able to push a small vegetative growth if at all.

Pina Colada is an awesome mango, I just wish it was a larger fruit with a smaller seed. I’ve had some Pineapple Pleasure mangos that tasted like a giant Pina Colada except it lacked any coconut and was a bit less sweet although it was still very sweet. Pineapple Pleasure is an excellent mango.

The Po Pyu Kalay, Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet lineage seems to produce very watered down and mild tasting fruit the first year or two and then the fruit starts improving significantly from my experience. I haven’t fruited any Orange sherbet yet but I’ve tasted several from my friends tree over the years.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on November 18, 2020, 01:27:10 PM
Hi Simon, should we let our seedlings fruit before grafting onto them? Thx
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 18, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Hey Nate,

I’m the adventurous type so my personal opinion is that if you spent the time to grow out a seedling, you might as well let it fruit to see what you have. Who knows, you may chance upon a new flavor profile or just get super lucky with an amazing tasting fruit.

It is highly unlikely that you will get a super amazing fruit but there is a good possibility that you get a decent tasting fruit. My friend Margot grew out a tree from seed about 20-25 years ago and here tree is very productive with good tasting fruit. It’s not top tier but it’s a good fruit in the same league as Kent, Glenn, Vp etc...

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001)

Leo Manuel also planted out many seedlings and he has made a number of selections from them. Not all the seedlings were keepers but the ones he kept are quite good and very disease resistant.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0)

Nate, not all seedlings are the same. With Polyembryonic mangos, there is a significantly higher chance of good quality fruit from the seedling because there is a high probability of getting a clone. With Polyembryonic mango seedlings, there is also the probability of getting the zygotic seedling but the zygotic seedling may be selfed, meaning it was pollinated by itself.

This selfed seedling is Not a clone even though all of its genetic material came from itself. The zygotic seedling is the result of sexual reproduction so there were rearrangements of its genetic material. This is a possible explanation for how Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet were selected from Po Pyu Kalay seedlings.

I highly recommend that us SoCal mango growers grow out Polyembryonic seeds from varieties like Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, COC and NDM as their number one choice for rootstocks. I recommend these even over Lavern Manilla.

Monoembryonic seedlings are also excellent as rootstocks but you are much less likely to get excellent fruit from them. Monoembryonic seedlings are highly variable from the research I have done. Monoembryonic seedlings usually start out as bigger plants as soon as they sprout because they get the energy fro the whole seed unlike Polyembryonic seedlings.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on November 19, 2020, 03:30:03 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/21mZKJ9b/0430-E773-0331-4-D98-BBC9-7-A5707-D19-FE6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21mZKJ9b)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DJWJGK0D/B3-A26-B67-6135-43-D9-9-D1-F-A9597-C066-EB7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJWJGK0D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/06scZcDc/EF9-BAE02-921-D-444-D-A0-D1-0-F5-B697-D90-FF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06scZcDc)

The greenhouse has proven very helpful for mangoes in my 9b location. Most of my grafts this year worked and the trees are all pushing nicely considering the temps.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on November 19, 2020, 03:50:37 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/21mZKJ9b/0430-E773-0331-4-D98-BBC9-7-A5707-D19-FE6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21mZKJ9b)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DJWJGK0D/B3-A26-B67-6135-43-D9-9-D1-F-A9597-C066-EB7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJWJGK0D)

(https://i.postimg.cc/06scZcDc/EF9-BAE02-921-D-444-D-A0-D1-0-F5-B697-D90-FF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06scZcDc)

The greenhouse has proven very helpful for mangoes in my 9b location. Most of my grafts this year worked and the trees are all pushing nicely considering the temps.

Are all grafted mangoes from this year seedlings?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on November 19, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on November 19, 2020, 08:01:21 PM
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?

I notice some stringlights inside the greenhouse.  Do they really keep it warm?  I used to have 1500w heater turned on at night for mine but the power bill gotten too expensive
How is your power bill with lights on?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on November 20, 2020, 12:38:36 AM
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/23S2CHDH/8-U1-A5367-Coconut-Cream-Mango-Tree-in-Mid-Fall-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23S2CHDH)
Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0/8-U1-A5413-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mallika-Mango-Tree-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0)
Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC/8-U1-A5431-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mango-Tree-with-Excellent-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC)
Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhH25f2x/8-U1-A5444-Lemon-Zest-Mango-Tree-after-Fall-Flush-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhH25f2x)
Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv/8-U1-A5454-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-with-Lush-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv)
Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT/8-U1-A5401-Brewster-Lychee-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT)
Brewster Lychee Tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM/8-U1-A5440-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM)
Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Beautiful trees. What are you currently fertilizing them with? My Alano sapodilla was about a 1.5' grafted tree when I bought it two years ago. It's grown about 6" in that time.  ;D

I've grown fond of it even though I realize it will just be an ornamental shrub and I will need to buy another larger tree to start with.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on November 20, 2020, 09:46:08 AM
I apply Down to Earth fruit tree organic fertilizer in the spring and throughout the summer. I also apply azomite twice a year to all of my fruit trees to supply all the necessary trace elements.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on November 20, 2020, 07:55:09 PM
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?


I fertilize my trees that are in the greenhouse even now. I do keep GH temp above 60F with a 1500 watt heater. It’s a 6’x6’ palram hybrid with BioGreen heater. Here are some of my seedlings and grafted trees. Seedling is a Harvest Moon, planted on 5/23/20 and behind that is a grafted Ok Rung on Manila seedling, grafted on 4/13/20.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cvJJhd82/95690-C0-D-BEC4-4-E52-AB95-E4539-A54-F93-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvJJhd82)



(https://i.postimg.cc/WDBbsrfc/981858-FB-9219-48-DF-8-C35-6-E3312-CBE4-F4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDBbsrfc)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on November 20, 2020, 09:44:32 PM
I apply Down to Earth fruit tree organic fertilizer in the spring and throughout the summer. I also apply azomite twice a year to all of my fruit trees to supply all the necessary trace elements.

Johnny

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on November 21, 2020, 02:06:37 AM
The really large one is a diamond grafted onto probably turpentine. I top worked it with some peach cobbler which all seem to have taken, NDM with no luck, and maybe 50% with Sweet Tart. To be seen.

I have about 20 seedlings from this year from FL mangoes, lots of types, no grafts yet - they're not shown. The large grafted plant in the photos is 1 year old VP seedling with guava (which is pushing strong), and Peach Cobbler that is still really nice and green and fat but hasn't pushed yet. I think they need more fertilizer but I'm hesitant with winter and all. Maybe another greenhouse owner can chime in if feeding is ok?




I fertilize my trees that are in the greenhouse even now. I do keep GH temp above 60F with a 1500 watt heater. It’s a 6’x6’ palram hybrid with BioGreen heater. Here are some of my seedlings and grafted trees. Seedling is a Harvest Moon, planted on 5/23/20 and behind that is a grafted Ok Rung on Manila seedling, grafted on 4/13/20.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cvJJhd82/95690-C0-D-BEC4-4-E52-AB95-E4539-A54-F93-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvJJhd82)



(https://i.postimg.cc/WDBbsrfc/981858-FB-9219-48-DF-8-C35-6-E3312-CBE4-F4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WDBbsrfc)

You don't need to put any shade cloth over the top of your greenhouse?  Won't it get very hot during summer?  I have 80% shade cloth on the top and it reaches 100+ Inside during summer.  My greenhouse size is 20'x10'   Do you have your heater on all night or put it on timer?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on November 21, 2020, 10:36:24 AM

You don't need to put any shade cloth over the top of your greenhouse?  Won't it get very hot during summer?  I have 80% shade cloth on the top and it reaches 100+ Inside during summer.  My greenhouse size is 20'x10'   Do you have your heater on all night or put it on timer?

I take out one side panel from both sides end of June to maintain GH temp. I also installed an automatic vent opener and couple of downspray  sprinkler heads to maintain high humidity. Heater is on a thermostat, I set it to turn on when temp drops below 61F and turn off at 62F. I keep an eye on the temp and humidity with a weather station sensor. Everything is pretty much automated and requires minimal attention.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 21, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/23S2CHDH/8-U1-A5367-Coconut-Cream-Mango-Tree-in-Mid-Fall-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23S2CHDH)
Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0/8-U1-A5413-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mallika-Mango-Tree-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0)
Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

(https://i.postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC/8-U1-A5431-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mango-Tree-with-Excellent-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/q6rrC9xC)
Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhH25f2x/8-U1-A5444-Lemon-Zest-Mango-Tree-after-Fall-Flush-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhH25f2x)
Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv/8-U1-A5454-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-with-Lush-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXQK6bvv)
Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016

(https://i.postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT/8-U1-A5401-Brewster-Lychee-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nX4PXCwT)
Brewster Lychee Tree

(https://i.postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM/8-U1-A5440-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Beautiful-Growth-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPLnJ7wM)
Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Beautiful trees. What are you currently fertilizing them with? My Alano sapodilla was about a 1.5' grafted tree when I bought it two years ago. It's grown about 6" in that time.  ;D

I've grown fond of it even though I realize it will just be an ornamental shrub and I will need to buy another larger tree to start with.

John B, if your Alano Sapodilla only grew several inches in two years, you’re probably not fertilizing or watering it enough. I got an Alano About 1.5 years ago and it was just a whip about two feet tall with side branches just starting to grow. It has consistently put on growth and although it is not a vigorous grower, it has gotten significantly larger. It’s probably around 4 feet tall and 4 feet wide now. It started out about two feet tall and maybe 6 inches wide with the new side branches when I got it.

Mass wise, it’s probably 10-15 times larger than when I got it. Although Sapodillas are drought tolerant once established, they like water for growth assuming you have decent draining soil.

I believe my tree grew decently because I fertilized heavily. Sapodillas are pretty salt tolerant.



If you fertilize mangos in a greenhouse, be sure you don’t get too much salt buildup in the bottom of the pot or else you can get nutrient lock.

If you grow organically, beware of fungus gnats when using organic fertilizers.

If you have a small greenhouse or tent, beware that too much fertilizer can push your tree to get too tall and it may hit the roof  before the weather gets warm enough to transition to the outside.

Simon

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on November 21, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
I believe Simon is correct about Sapdodilla trees. I have included (4) photos for comparison. I purchased a number of Sapodilla Trees in 2017 including an Alano and Molix. You can see for yourself the difference in growth between June of 2017 and Nov of 2019 in my Alano. I have since sold my Alano since I successfully grafted three scions from this tree onto my Tikal sapodilla which was already in the ground.

My Molix sapodilla tree has grown quite well in the three years I have had it. You can see the photo from 2017 and another one was just taken recently.

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/PNVCW41S/Alano-Sapodilla-Root-Ball-Tree-6-3-2017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNVCW41S)
Alano Sapodilla 6-3-2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/zV93MGtW/Alano-Sapodilla-Tree-11-15-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV93MGtW)
Alano Sapodilla Tree 11-15-2019

(https://i.postimg.cc/pp9pqFZR/Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-Just-Purchased-6-3-2017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp9pqFZR)
Molix Sapodilla Tree 6-3-2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/tYzmvsCv/8-U1-A5542-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Green-Growth-11-18-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYzmvsCv)
Molix Sapodilla Tree11-18-2020
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on November 21, 2020, 11:45:16 PM
Thank you Simon and Johnny. I certainly have neglected my plants the last couple of years! I've under ferted all of my plants as I do not have them on a schedule any more. That is now changing with the kids getting a bit older. But, I think that the main issue is my placement of the little tree.

I bought it as a recent graft from Ongs in April 2019. I did not think about sun orientation when I planted it. Even though we have a south facing house, there is significant shading from October to February at this specific area of my yard which I think is limiting growth. I will likely keep it as a decorative tree and take grafts later (thanks for the idea Johnny). You can see from the pictures the minimal growth. It still looks healthy and is consistently watered.

Also, I did amend about the top 12" of the soil with compost and pumice when I was installing my succulents, so drainage is not an issue.


Picture when I first bought it (sorry only picture I had):
(https://i.postimg.cc/75Fp9nty/IMG-20200515-180041027-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75Fp9nty)

Today Nov. 2020
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZhxRG0B/IMG-20201121-131906565.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZhxRG0B)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tp9wZpMS/IMG-20201121-131854357.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp9wZpMS)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on November 29, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
Hey Nate,

I’m the adventurous type so my personal opinion is that if you spent the time to grow out a seedling, you might as well let it fruit to see what you have. Who knows, you may chance upon a new flavor profile or just get super lucky with an amazing tasting fruit.

It is highly unlikely that you will get a super amazing fruit but there is a good possibility that you get a decent tasting fruit. My friend Margot grew out a tree from seed about 20-25 years ago and here tree is very productive with good tasting fruit. It’s not top tier but it’s a good fruit in the same league as Kent, Glenn, Vp etc...

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001)

Leo Manuel also planted out many seedlings and he has made a number of selections from them. Not all the seedlings were keepers but the ones he kept are quite good and very disease resistant.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0)

Nate, not all seedlings are the same. With Polyembryonic mangos, there is a significantly higher chance of good quality fruit from the seedling because there is a high probability of getting a clone. With Polyembryonic mango seedlings, there is also the probability of getting the zygotic seedling but the zygotic seedling may be selfed, meaning it was pollinated by itself.

This selfed seedling is Not a clone even though all of its genetic material came from itself. The zygotic seedling is the result of sexual reproduction so there were rearrangements of its genetic material. This is a possible explanation for how Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet were selected from Po Pyu Kalay seedlings.

I highly recommend that us SoCal mango growers grow out Polyembryonic seeds from varieties like Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, COC and NDM as their number one choice for rootstocks. I recommend these even over Lavern Manilla.

Monoembryonic seedlings are also excellent as rootstocks but you are much less likely to get excellent fruit from them. Monoembryonic seedlings are highly variable from the research I have done. Monoembryonic seedlings usually start out as bigger plants as soon as they sprout because they get the energy fro the whole seed unlike Polyembryonic seedlings.

Simon

THANK YOU for the awesome, informative reply Simon! Here’s a pic of one of my seedlings (Kent) it’s got 3 branches scaffolding out.

If I graft onto just one branch I wonder if it will slow the growth of the rest of the tree down? I do plan on growing out the other branches to see if I hit the lotto and wind up with a good tasting seedling fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7bn9Rbcm/1432-CD21-FFC1-4016-8626-7-F73283-E4-BAE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bn9Rbcm)
(ps if anyone knows how to rotate pictures please send me pm, thx)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 29, 2020, 11:48:22 PM
Hey Nate, if you graft one of the branches with mature scion, it will significantly slow down the growth of your plant. This is because, generally speaking, the scion is what determines the maturity of the grafted branch. The branch that is grafted with mature scion will flower once nightly average lows are below about 61-62F. The non grafted branches will likely Not flower however the grafted branch will so it will be pulling energy from the trees resources.

The energy spent on flowering, which in SoCal can last upwards of 6 months, is taken away from the vegetative growth. This not only affects your plant for the first year or two but it will affect you rootstock variety until it naturally reaches sexual maturity.

I would advise that you don’t graft your tree until it is approaching the final size you would like to keep your tree.
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on November 30, 2020, 10:54:15 PM
With our ongoing warm weather and non-existent rainfall, are you folks watering your mango trees right now? I get worried about over or under watering my more tropical trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on November 30, 2020, 10:58:10 PM
Yes you need to water still its been super low humidity.  Dont let the soil ever completely dry out.  My timer is going once a week and if its crazy dry and windy, water more.  Like in the coming days its going to get bad again and will need another shot of water. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on December 02, 2020, 02:10:49 PM
Is it a good time to plant a mango tree right now? I usually wait until spring but im wondering if getting it in ground earlier will allow for the roots to develop before the first growth spurt in spring.

Also what is the lower limit of temp that a newly planted mango tree withstand?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on December 02, 2020, 08:55:21 PM
Same question with Goyo here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 02, 2020, 10:10:16 PM
No, keep overwinter in pot with minimal watering, protect from wind, and plant in March or April. Die back from freeze and fungus typically shows in March first.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on December 03, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
You can plant young mango trees now in December with no problem but there will be no growth since night temperatures are in the 40's and daylight hours are short. As long as we do not get any freezing temperatures young mango trees will be ok, but they may not look great.

If you plant outside Feb-March is a good time as the trees start to wake up a bit.

I keep all of my young mango trees in a greenhouse as I can keep the temperature up and get growth flushes even in mid-winter.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 03, 2020, 09:25:36 AM
Let me clarify - yes you can plant now but I don't recommend it. The plant won't grow (much... Some of my in ground are still flushing or started to flower) but the disease pressures are high and it's much easier for me to control in pots than in ground hooked up to irrigation. A few years ago I lost 1/3 of my mangos before spring started. For me it's just easier to keep protected and on the dry side (don't overwater).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on December 03, 2020, 09:31:05 AM
Thanks for the responses hockey and johnny. I was hoping that early planting would allow for root development, which would allow the tree to flush out immediately. But it seems the wiser move is to keep it in its pot waiting for warmer weather.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on December 05, 2020, 12:12:09 PM
Hey Nate, if you graft one of the branches with mature scion, it will significantly slow down the growth of your plant. This is because, generally speaking, the scion is what determines the maturity of the grafted branch. The branch that is grafted with mature scion will flower once nightly average lows are below about 61-62F. The non grafted branches will likely Not flower however the grafted branch will so it will be pulling energy from the trees resources.

The energy spent on flowering, which in SoCal can last upwards of 6 months, is taken away from the vegetative growth. This not only affects your plant for the first year or two but it will affect you rootstock variety until it naturally reaches sexual maturity.

I would advise that you don’t graft your tree until it is approaching the final size you would like to keep your tree.
Simon

Thanks a lot Simon! I’ll let patience be my virtue and wait for the seedlings to get bigger and then, watch out sweet tart and lemon zest scions...I’m coming for you! Happy gardening Simon! Cheers
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MarinaGasolina on December 17, 2020, 02:10:47 PM
This is such a helpful thread! I just bought a manila mango tree 5 gal and I'm concerned that my yard will be too dry for it. My yard is a south facing clay slope in Los Angeles, so I have good drainage and nearly constant sunlight year round, lowest temps are around 40 degrees. I'm attracted to fruit trees because they don't require supplemental water after a certain point. I read in this thread that mangoes are considered drought tolerant, but the tag on the tree says to maintain moderately moist soil. So my question is, at what point (if any) can I taper off watering the tree?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 19, 2020, 06:12:03 PM
You can taper off watering once your tree is fully established. When you first plant your tree, it’s best to keep it well hydrated as it adapts to the new soil. In Southern California where we don’t get much rain, you will likely need to irrigate consistently while the tree is holding/maturing fruit.

In SoCal, I’ve seen 10x more people killing their mango trees by overwatering than by under watering.

In the Winter, which is our rainy season in SoCal, I rarely water my in ground mango trees unless we go without rain for 2-3 weeks.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MarinaGasolina on December 19, 2020, 08:10:31 PM
Good to know, appreciate the response. Looks like this winter is gonna be pretty dry.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: HDuong on December 21, 2020, 11:43:31 AM
can someone help me to buy scions of "cat hoa loc"?, please?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 22, 2020, 08:40:55 PM
Right now is not a good time to graft mango trees. In the Spring or Summer, check with tropical acres nursery.

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/ (https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on December 22, 2020, 09:36:34 PM
You can graft now only if you have a heated greenhouse otherwise forget it, baby. It's a waste of time and money. The temperature is too cold. 

The best time to graft outdoors is in July-August in California.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on December 23, 2020, 03:34:37 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0/8-U1-A5413-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mallika-Mango-Tree-SV-11-1-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZfTyy0)
Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

Hi Johnny,

This grafted tree is interesting that it seems to have only one main trunk graft, not multiple branches grafts as I have for my trees. Did you use clef for the main trunk, or veneer graft as in Walter Zill video? It seems almost impossible to do a clef graft on the big trunk, and so did you graft on a young tree or on an mature already fruited tree?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on April 01, 2021, 10:59:03 PM
Hello Everyone,
I was doing some spring cleaning around the yard today and was pleasantly surprised to see that my NDM seeds I planted last October sprouted and survived the winter.  The seeds were planted in 3 gallon planters and placed underneath a lemon tree against the house.  They were kind of hidden and covered with leaves.  There are multiple seedlings in each pot.  Should I keep the strongest seedling or try to separate and save them all?  I noticed that there were a few other seedlings that didn't make it.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Tony

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgmK177N/NDM-Seedlings.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgmK177N)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 03, 2021, 02:40:03 AM
I would separate the seedlings and plant the strongest and the second strongest seedling. I don’t know which is the clone but at least you’ll have the two strongest plants out of that seed and one of the seedlings is very likely to be the clone.

I believe one member mentioned that for NDM, it’s not the strongest seedling that’s the clone. I believe that member was from Thailand but I don’t know how many seedlings he grew out.

If you have the room, plant all the seedlings and you’ll have back ups to practice grafting on. Maybe top work one to Sweet Tart, Cotton Candy, CAC, Orange Sherbet or if you want more compact, Pina Colada.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on April 06, 2021, 12:51:27 AM
Hello Simon,

Thank-you for the information.  The NDM seedlings are all pushing new growth.  My NDM tree appears to be a dwarf/semi-dwarf tree - almost as wide as tall (10ft.)  It's been in the ground for 6 years and has produced well.  Just to confirm, anything grafted to a dwarf/semi-dwarf rootstock will be a slow grower or small tree (under 12 feet).  Does Pina Colada do well in So. Cal?  I was looking to graft the Pina Colada onto the NDM tree this year.

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on April 07, 2021, 12:07:16 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/3ygZP46J/4-EEE62-FD-242-B-40-C5-8-D43-BCF49830-F722.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3ygZP46J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4HnVNm8c/B195-ADA9-0-AD1-48-EE-98-B1-68-E6287-DE270.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HnVNm8c)

It would appear this Valencia pride seedling is flowering. It is 2 years old.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on April 07, 2021, 07:45:24 PM

It would appear this Valencia pride seedling is flowering. It is 2 years old.

You're correct. Usually my seedlings flower at 3 years old. Yours looks skinny; Why not plant it on ground?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on April 07, 2021, 07:48:14 PM
can someone help me to buy scions of "cat hoa loc"?, please?

A member here name Squam (Alex) has many different scions to choose. But we don't know it's true Cat Hoa Loc or not. I wish someone visits VN and gets some true scions back.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on April 07, 2021, 09:58:08 PM

It would appear this Valencia pride seedling is flowering. It is 2 years old.

You're correct. Usually my seedlings flower at 3 years old. Yours looks skinny; Why not plant it on ground?

I'm in 9b and it's pretty cold up here. I don't have any soil to put it that stands out as a microclimate. I am tempted to risk it but... It's so near and dear, babying it along as I have. Hit 24f last year and 26f this year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on April 07, 2021, 10:02:39 PM

It would appear this Valencia pride seedling is flowering. It is 2 years old.

You're correct. Usually my seedlings flower at 3 years old. Yours looks skinny; Why not plant it on ground?

I'm in 9b and it's pretty cold up here. I don't have any soil to put it that stands out as a microclimate. I am tempted to risk it but... It's so near and dear, babying it along as I have. Hit 24f last year and 26f this year.

24 or 26F is deadly. If you really want to eat fruits, I think you should have it in very big container -- deep is more important than diameter I think. I know once my seedlings are in ground and they grew much faster after 2 or 3 yrs.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lovetoplant on April 08, 2021, 03:02:45 PM
I believe Simon is correct about Sapdodilla trees. I have included (4) photos for comparison. I purchased a number of Sapodilla Trees in 2017 including an Alano and Molix. You can see for yourself the difference in growth between June of 2017 and Nov of 2019 in my Alano. I have since sold my Alano since I successfully grafted three scions from this tree onto my Tikal sapodilla which was already in the ground.

My Molix sapodilla tree has grown quite well in the three years I have had it. You can see the photo from 2017 and another one was just taken recently.

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/PNVCW41S/Alano-Sapodilla-Root-Ball-Tree-6-3-2017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNVCW41S)
Alano Sapodilla 6-3-2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/zV93MGtW/Alano-Sapodilla-Tree-11-15-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zV93MGtW)
Alano Sapodilla Tree 11-15-2019

(https://i.postimg.cc/pp9pqFZR/Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-Just-Purchased-6-3-2017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp9pqFZR)
Molix Sapodilla Tree 6-3-2017

(https://i.postimg.cc/tYzmvsCv/8-U1-A5542-Molix-Sapodilla-Tree-with-Green-Growth-11-18-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYzmvsCv)
Molix Sapodilla Tree11-18-2020

Johny, where did you buy Sapodillas from?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: LuvFig on April 09, 2021, 04:34:32 PM
Greetings!

I am new to this forum.  Great info!  Has anyone grown Philippines Carabao mango in SoSCal or in Los Angeles?  How does it compare to Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart and Nam Doc Mai? 

It seems Ong Nursery in San Diego may have it but they don't opened until the weekend.  Trying to find out if this Carabao from Ong's is the same that is grown on the island of Guimaras that are supposedly very sweet.  Is it grafted or on its rootstock, and does it grow well in SoCal with clay soil etc.

Thanks in advance!
Grace
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on May 02, 2021, 09:55:18 PM
Does bagging mangos in a paper bag help the fruit develop quicker?

(https://i.postimg.cc/yDVF3tzq/A4-AF513-D-A6-F0-4-A82-84-FF-6-F779-B9-F4-D7-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yDVF3tzq)

Pictured here is a honeykiss panicle i bagged and the mangos on it are significantly bigger than unbagged panicles that are from the same tree and variety and within  inches of each other.

The bagged panicles also have larger mangos on a parson graft on the same tree. The unbagged panicles have smaller mangoes.

Is this an established phenomenon?

Also on parson the panicles are really short compared to the other varieties is this normal? Note that it seems to want to hold alot of fruit.

(https://i.postimg.cc/phTv92s9/2-A37-AD10-8765-498-B-ABBE-9142-F114-FFBC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phTv92s9)

Final question does anyone know of parson is mono or poly?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on May 03, 2021, 02:42:44 AM
I would thin that one out, otherwise the fruit will cluster like peaches, and there will be issues where the edges touch.

I've theorized that the best way to accelerate fruit development on mango would be to use paper/ waxpaper bags to encapsulate the fruit. Thank you for the data point.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on May 03, 2021, 07:46:51 AM
I would thin that one out, otherwise the fruit will cluster like peaches, and there will be issues where the edges touch.

I've theorized that the best way to accelerate fruit development on mango would be to use paper/ waxpaper bags to encapsulate the fruit. Thank you for the data point.

Thanks for the reply.

I periodically open the bags and see if any are still dropping. I eventually want to end up with one fruit on each parson panicle but i am unsure that if i thin the one which the tree was going to hold im going to lose all of the fruit.

Anyone know if parson panicles are usually this short and if parson is mono or poly?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 03, 2021, 09:21:59 AM
Hello Simon,

Thank-you for the information.  The NDM seedlings are all pushing new growth.  My NDM tree appears to be a dwarf/semi-dwarf tree - almost as wide as tall (10ft.)  It's been in the ground for 6 years and has produced well.  Just to confirm, anything grafted to a dwarf/semi-dwarf rootstock will be a slow grower or small tree (under 12 feet).  Does Pina Colada do well in So. Cal?  I was looking to graft the Pina Colada onto the NDM tree this year.

Tony

Hey Tony, I don’t have enough data on Pina Colada yet but it tastes absolutely amazing! It is a slow grower so I wouldn’t recommend it on Florida rootstock and I also wouldn’t recommend grafting it onto a slow growing tree.

I have a seedling selection of Pina Colada that I grafted onto my big(relatively) Florida rootstock and this works for me because the rootstock is well established and I’m grafting seedling scions so the grafted branch  should grow vegetatively for at least a year or two before flowering.

Some others in California have reported poor growth and disease/production issues with this variety but I was so impressed with the flavor that I planted out about 50 seeds/seedlings and I’m hoping I get lucky with a more vigorous, disease resistant and productive seedling selection.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 03, 2021, 09:29:49 AM
Greetings!

I am new to this forum.  Great info!  Has anyone grown Philippines Carabao mango in SoSCal or in Los Angeles?  How does it compare to Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart and Nam Doc Mai? 

It seems Ong Nursery in San Diego may have it but they don't opened until the weekend.  Trying to find out if this Carabao from Ong's is the same that is grown on the island of Guimaras that are supposedly very sweet.  Is it grafted or on its rootstock, and does it grow well in SoCal with clay soil etc.

Thanks in advance!
Grace

Hello Grace,

Someone grew Carabao, I don’t know if it’s the Sweet Elena that was reported to be the sweetest mango in the world but the newer Zill varieties tasted significantly better and sweeter than the Carabao we sampled at our mango tasting. Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet and the non Zill Po Pyu Kalay that Maurice Kong introduced were orders of magnitude better.

The Manilla/Carabao trees at Ongs nursery made good rootstocks from what people have been reporting to me but I don’t have any in my yard.

If you have disease issues or if you don’t know if you have disease issues, Sweet Tart is one of the sweetest and best tasting mangos.

Simon

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on May 08, 2021, 02:53:09 AM
This mango tree decided its time to set way too many fruit.  Its annoying because I had to spend a lot of time thinning it out.  Last year it did it a little and the fruit that weren't thinned stuck on the tree and were tiny.  They don't self thin like a an avocado.  Its like a peach that Ollie mentioned. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/7CjHGvzD/20210507-102051.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CjHGvzD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5HgrT8xr/20210507-101917.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HgrT8xr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5jYPqhFT/20210507-101845.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5jYPqhFT)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 08, 2021, 03:09:52 AM
Damn, they’re looking great now. I’m surprised that tree isn’t self thinning in stages. Is that the SweetTart seedling? My SweetTart seedling sets tons of fruit as well but it eventually self thins and drops most the mangos except 1-3 per panicle, usually just one.

I need to stop over again and check out the trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on May 10, 2021, 03:43:51 PM
These pics were taken yesterday.

Honeykiss not bagged
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4xL2JQ9/30-B912-CD-6761-4265-9727-F5-A7-D0-A15912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4xL2JQ9)
Honeykiss bagged
(https://i.postimg.cc/v1y6sQgk/3543-BB8-F-F860-4-F73-884-E-AC876-D341-D6-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1y6sQgk)

Parson bagged
(https://i.postimg.cc/HVQYCbwW/261284-D8-BD70-44-E1-AEEA-D0-E63-D0-E1-E33.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVQYCbwW)
Parson unbagged
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZpzYdgx/FA7-C5-A28-3014-416-D-BEC1-9482-EB4-A7-A63.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZpzYdgx)


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 10, 2021, 04:36:23 PM
Nice Goya626,

Honey kiss is a very productive variety in SoCal but it can be so productive that it doesn’t grow much if you let it hold too much fruit. Please keep us updated!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on May 10, 2021, 07:46:34 PM
Nice Goya626,

Honey kiss is a very productive variety in SoCal but it can be so productive that it doesn’t grow much if you let it hold too much fruit. Please keep us updated!

Simon

The honeykiss graft is on a potted tree, i dont expect it to grow much. Im hoping it keeps fruit so i can start seeds since according to my research honeykiss is polyembryonic.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on May 10, 2021, 11:56:20 PM
It was time to start cutting back this triple trunk Atulfo tree. I let it fruit 3 fruit last year. One was actually good but long term, it was not the end result.

It was a bit over 9 ft tall but fruit were weighing most branches down. Started to develop PM but I didn't care to spray. Got sweet tart and peach cobbler Scions from TAF. Those Scions were bulging! They were shipped last Monday but today was first day I could spend time grafting. They've been chilling in the fridge.

Cleft, veneer, and that "coffin" graft were attempted. I'll see what the end result is and then decide how to shape depending on if anything takes.


(https://i.postimg.cc/JsFkvTYn/PXL-20210507-195501807.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsFkvTYn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wyp7YnX6/PXL-20210510-163154863.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyp7YnX6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v1Rm5CSW/PXL-20210510-171451059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1Rm5CSW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tnDjn6QZ/PXL-20210510-193348503.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnDjn6QZ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 11, 2021, 11:52:08 AM
Nice John,

Peach Cobbler is a great variety. I would also recommend Sweet Tart. Did you try separating the three seedlings when they were smaller? Good luck with the grafts!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on May 11, 2021, 01:25:54 PM
Nice John,

Peach Cobbler is a great variety. I would also recommend Sweet Tart. Did you try separating the three seedlings when they were smaller? Good luck with the grafts!

Simon

Simon, darn autocorrect! I updated the post to say sweet tart. I have 7 sweet tart grafts and 3 peach cobbler on it. Hoping at least one of each make it!

I bought this from Clausen nursery a couple years ago when they had them in stock. They were grown from seed and the polyembryonic seeds were never separated. I didn't know about mangos back then (still learning, too) and per their recommendation I kept the three going. After learning more, it appeared I should have cut it down to one but never did. I believe you recommended I do that as well.

Well, they started growing like a weed on this hill, so I figured I'd let nature take it's course and decide what to do once I can get successful grafts onto it. Time will tell. The bottoms do appear to be fusing together, which I don't know if it would ever become a single trunk.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: dyb5150 on May 18, 2021, 12:23:30 AM
This thread is great. Need some help with my young mangoes. Recently purchased the following from FL on turpentine repotted in gritty mix 1.5 months ago (in the pic from leftish to right):

Maha Chanok (26”)
Lemon Zest (24”)
Sweet Tart (18”)
Coconut Cream (19”)

All but ST seem to be flowering at the top of the main stem. Before the flowering, my plan was to let these grow to 2-3’ then cut the trunk just below the ring to encourage 3-4 scaffolds nicely spaced. But, now i’m not sure what to do with the panicle. Night time temps are 50-55* and rising. Do i go ahead and let them flower and remove pea sized fruitlets...then cut panicle? Or, cut all or a portion of the panicles now? When i do, cut it at the panicle base but above the ring of green leaves? Will the trunk continue to grow straight up from the cut? I have lots of fruit trees but these are my first mangoes and would like to take the best approach for health of the plant.

Second matter, i understand the turpentine rootstock issue. I’m in zone 10b/21...very sandy, rocky soil that i amend lightly. 10+ hours of daily summer sun with reflective heat from the ground. Hoping conditions are such that these thrive...even on the turpentine. I understand the ST and LZ are vigorous...what about MC and CC?

Lastly, my plan was to leave in the pots until perhaps next Spring...then move to the ground. My biggest fear are the Santa Ana winds (50-60mph at my location). Is that a decent strategy or would you get them in the ground sooner (ie this growing season and stake the hell outta them)?

I’ve read the entire thread and searched around and i couldn’t find the same issues. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Bonus topic - i have makok and alano sapodillas...trying to find a silas woods...what are my best bets here in SoCal?

Sincerest thanks!

db

(https://i.postimg.cc/N91FdLvt/E945-ACF7-817-B-4-F65-9-C61-81-D284-BD93-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N91FdLvt)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 18, 2021, 07:58:59 AM
Hey dB,

Your conditions seem really good for growing Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. They seem to like areas with more heat units and they also prefer good draining soils. Another bonus is that your trees are younger and less likely to be root bound.

You can remove half the bloom panicle now just to relief some of the weight. This will help prevent bending of the branches which can expose the bark to sunburn. Leave the remaining panicle until average low temps are around 62F which is probably in about another 2-4 weeks at my location but depends on your specific micro climate. Remember that it’s not the lowest temperatures at night that you are looking for but approximate average low temps.

If other mango trees in your area are pushing vegetative growth, that is a good time to remove all of the blooms or small fruit.

When you do make your cut, cut below the dense ring or leaves. You want to have 3-4 evenly spaced leaves or petiole scars below your cut.

With your conditions you described, your Florida trees should thrive. Maha may not grow as fast as the others and Coconut Cream will probably be very droopy but they should be fine if you prune off the droopy branches.

If I were you, I would plant the trees into the ground now. We are about to hit the mango vegetative growing season and the roots will be able to grow a lot if you get them into the ground now. Dig a square hole and backfill with native soil. Most people make the mistake of over amending their backfill hole with too much organic matter and that’s just one of the reasons the trees do poorly. Your native soil is your best bet.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: dyb5150 on May 18, 2021, 06:13:50 PM
Hey Simon, appreciate your helpful suggestions. I do want to clarify just to make sure I understand where to make the cut when ready. Apologies if this is too basic...but I've edited my photo. I understand (or it seems to me) the whole growth above the highest ring of green leaves are the "bloom panicles." Not sure if this is entirely correct...as they are a bit different on the Maha (furthest in the pic) and LZ (second furthest)...than the Coconut Cream (nearest). On the CC, seems everything above the ring of green leaves is the bloom panicle and stem is red/burgundy...so, I supposed I would cut at the red oval. But, what about the Maha and LZ...is everything above the highest ring of green leaves the "bloom panicle?" I see shoots (circled in light blue) that perhaps may be trunk or scaffold branches developing...they have both small green leaves growing...as well as little flower clusters developing. Just want to make sure if I should cut at the red ovals approximately...or if that would actually be heading the trunk and a mistake?

Lastly, if everything above the ring of green leaves are the bloom panicles...and I'll eventually be making the heading cut just below the highest ring of green leaves (ie just below the panicles)...then there will only be approximately 10" of main trunk above the grafts. So, seems the scaffold branches will be extremely close to the grafts...unless the trunk continues to develop between the graft and the first scaffold branch. I just don't understand how the trees that developed flowers at the top of the main trunk...thus eliminating any possibility for them to grow their main trunk taller.

Again, apologies if this is too basic...just trying to understand and get a picture in my mind as to how the trees are going to respond once I make the cuts.

Thanks again,

db
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nks8gB6/Young-Mangoes.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nks8gB6)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 19, 2021, 11:32:10 AM
Hello db,

For the tree that is the closest, your CC, you would cut below the red circle. There are still bloom spikes below your red circle. Immediately below your bloom panicles is a dense whorl of leaves that is tightly spaced together. Beneath this dense clusters of leaves is usually several more distantly spaced leaves.

In your case it looks like you have another dense cluster of leaves beneath your upper most leaf whorl or intercalation. Maybe it’s just the picture but I can’t tell you where to cut unless you space out the trees and take a closer up picture so that I can see the leaf spacing.

You can pm me and we can do FaceTime and that might be easier but I won’t have time till tomorrow. I have a big project at work today.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mango Stein on May 19, 2021, 12:14:06 PM
I have a Coconut Cream SEEDLING tree planted in-ground in climate akin to Socal. Just wondering to what size I can maintain an adult tree and whether this is done with a cincturing tool.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 19, 2021, 02:28:52 PM
Seedling trees can get huge in warmer climates but I have no idea about your soil make up, pH, drainage and soil nutrients. Also, seedling trees may be Zygotic so may grow different than a clone. Sorry I can’t be of more help.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: janetlee on May 19, 2021, 04:55:35 PM
Ok 1. I'm new to this forum I will try not to annoy.
I recently moved to the San Fernando valley and on a trip to a nursury they convinced to buy a Keit Mango claiming  they are doing well in Coachella. Knowing that the desert gets hot and cold I thought I'd give it a try. I'm hoping I didnt get snookered. She is about 4-5 feet tall, still in the nursery bucket. This winter it got into the high 30s here. Do I have any chance of keeping her alive? Any suggestions or recommendations welcome! I'm excited to learn
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 19, 2021, 05:06:26 PM
If your tree is weak, 30F could kill it. Are you sure your specific microclimate isn’t a bit warmer? Sometimes a weather station will give the approximate low temps in an area your specific yard may be significantly warmer due to heat released by your house, a wall, large rocks, etc..

Did your trees leaves drop off at 30F? If not, you already have your tree so you might as well plant it into the ground. They do grow Keitts commercially in the Coachella valley and they taste excellent. The larger your tree is, the better off it will be at withstanding the cold. Good luck with your tree!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mango Stein on May 19, 2021, 06:17:37 PM
Good info Simon.

And how far away do people normally keep their mango trees away from a vegetable garden? Because on Wikipedia I read that mangoes have "profuse, wide-spreading feeder roots and anchor roots penetrating deeply into the soil."
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: janetlee on May 19, 2021, 06:24:34 PM
I only just purchased the tree, so it didn't "experience" winter here yet. I don't have a thermometer up yet, but my cell phone said 36 (that was the lowest I recall).
 :-[
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 19, 2021, 07:06:34 PM
If your lowest temps are above 32F, you should be good. You can get frost above 32F if you take into consideration the wind chill factor but I get frost about every other year at my location and only the non hardened growth freezes off.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: dyb5150 on May 21, 2021, 12:12:56 AM
Thanks Simon...here are individual pics of the trees...three of them have tags...and the one without the tag is the Maha. Keep in mind these are pretty small at this point (heights noted in above post)...hoping to get them to 2-3' before making the heading cut. Appreciate your help. I know I'll learn from this exchange...hopefully someone else will too.

Best,

db
(https://i.postimg.cc/B8V24sGL/001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8V24sGL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FktckZzh/002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FktckZzh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Cnj8Gqnk/003.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cnj8Gqnk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/w3JD8S4M/004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3JD8S4M)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: tkondal on May 21, 2021, 08:27:21 PM
I'm looking to grow the Amrapali variety here in Southern California. Does anyone have recommendations for good nurseries for mango varieties near Los Angeles/Orange County/Riverside/San Diego  areas?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 22, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Thanks Simon...here are individual pics of the trees...three of them have tags...and the one without the tag is the Maha. Keep in mind these are pretty small at this point (heights noted in above post)...hoping to get them to 2-3' before making the heading cut. Appreciate your help. I know I'll learn from this exchange...hopefully someone else will too.

Best,

db
(https://i.postimg.cc/B8V24sGL/001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8V24sGL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FktckZzh/002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FktckZzh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Cnj8Gqnk/003.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cnj8Gqnk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/w3JD8S4M/004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3JD8S4M)

Hello db,

In your first picture, directly beneath your bloom panicle is a leaf whorl. Directly beneath that is a single leaf petiole scar. You want to cut beneath the the whorl and above the petiole scar.

Normally there are spaced out leaves or petiole scars beneath the uppermost leaf whorl but I don’t see that in the case of your first tree. Beneath your leaf whorl is that single petiole scar followed by another leaf whorl below that.

Cut at the red arrow in hopes that a single branch will form to become your central leader.

Alternatively, you can cut off all the blooms and leave the uppermost leaf whorl intact. It will then form multiple branches which you will have to thin down to 3 evenly spaced branches which will then be your future scaffold branches.

It depends on your vision of the tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/56J8rWV8/6011-DA68-4-F91-4-B45-B19-B-1-B3979-EF92-FA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56J8rWV8)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: dyb5150 on May 24, 2021, 06:04:40 PM
Hey Simon, I understand...thank you for your patience and detailed suggestion.

Best,

db
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on May 28, 2021, 08:59:59 AM
Update on the bagging of the mangos. Unfortunately most of them have dropped both the bagged and un bagged. Also my sweet tart is now trying to bud out from the main trunk below the graft. Not sure what that is about.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wtZ0Qv8N/26-ECCC16-3000-492-F-A31-D-80-DE4-C41-D438.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtZ0Qv8N)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on June 10, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
Well, grafting is successful this far. Only have two failures (both peach cobbler). Waiting and hoping at least one Peach Cobbler will push. Hopefully all 6 that have pushed keep growing. Sweet tart was a success on one of the crappy Laverne manilla rootstock. We'll see how it does once it goes in the ground.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JytP39SM/PXL-20210610-163034755.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JytP39SM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRccqFPc/PXL-20210610-163056685.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRccqFPc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ykzpqp3y/PXL-20210610-185945763-MP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykzpqp3y)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 10, 2021, 11:50:46 PM
This thread is great. Need some help with my young mangoes. Recently purchased the following from FL on turpentine repotted in gritty mix 1.5 months ago (in the pic from leftish to right):

Maha Chanok (26”)
Lemon Zest (24”)
Sweet Tart (18”)
Coconut Cream (19”)

Second matter, i understand the turpentine rootstock issue. I’m in zone 10b/21...very sandy, rocky soil that i amend lightly. 10+ hours of daily summer sun with reflective heat from the ground. Hoping conditions are such that these thrive...even on the turpentine. I understand the ST and LZ are vigorous...what about MC and CC?

Good luck to you on growing mangoes. Good heat in summer will never change the fact that we have cold and longer winter cold nights compared to FL.

I have Maha in ground with pavers surround so plenty of heat, but it is drooping so bad most of the fruits are laying on the pavers, and the graft tree was bought from FL about 6 or 7 years ago.

I have been growing mangos for more than 10 years with plenty of failure and success, and my advice is don't buy grafted mangoes on turpentine rootstock. It is faster to have 7 feet fruit tree by growing seedlings and then graft them after they have fruits in about 3 years.

I had pulled out drooping trees I bought from FL, after having them in ground more than 5 years, and replaced them with my own seedlings. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2021, 12:38:38 PM
For those hard core mango lovers, don’t let a few failures deter you from trying to grow mangos. It’s a numbers game and you have to plant out a lot of seedlings to find a few that grow vigorously for you at your location.

Just a reminder that you should grow out a lot of different varieties of mango seeds, both Polyembryonic and Monoembryonic. Although one type of seedling may grow more vigorously for you at first, certain diseases may affect the mono or poly embryonic seedlings more.

Also, I’ve noticed that many people are attempting to graft onto the Lavern Manilla mango seedlings but I recommend against grafting them until the trees are large and fully established with good scaffold branches.

I also want to remind everyone that if you have good soil, meaning that the pH is in the proper range and you have good drainage, you can plant the Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. I only recommend planting the more vigorous varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride or Lemon Zest for example. However, only plant Lemon Zest if you have good air flow or have low disease pressures.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 13, 2021, 03:58:54 PM
Here is my FL rootstock Maha in ground more than 6 years. I already planted a seedling next to it and will graft with Maha and then dig up the mother tree and trash it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hffhPQPq/MAHA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hffhPQPq)

And here is the HD La Verne seeding with graft after it had fruits:


(https://i.postimg.cc/Zv9ZZ3P7/IMG-2184.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zv9ZZ3P7)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 13, 2021, 04:05:03 PM
Peach Cobbler seedings grow very well in my climate, and have fruits in 3 years. If fruits are not any special I will top and graft something on them.
Kent seedlings are more problematic -- disease and very slow at the first few years.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 13, 2021, 05:45:33 PM
I have a couple stand out trees here.  Winters 20222 mango, grafted taralay, and J12 seedling.  These ones are growing really well.  Sweet tart also does well but then gets droopy when it flowers.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on June 13, 2021, 10:33:07 PM
Peach Cobbler seedings grow very well in my climate, and have fruits in 3 years. If fruits are not any special I will top and graft something on them.
Kent seedlings are more problematic -- disease and very slow at the first few years.

Have you found Peach Cobbler to be the best growing / most vigorous varieties from seed?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 14, 2021, 01:31:06 AM
Peach Cobbler seedings grow very well in my climate, and have fruits in 3 years. If fruits are not any special I will top and graft something on them.
Kent seedlings are more problematic -- disease and very slow at the first few years.

Have you found Peach Cobbler to be the best growing / most vigorous varieties from seed?

Yes, tallest and biggest of all seedlings, in SoCal. I have one facing west and one facing east, and they both are doing very well and fruited in 3 years. Even holding fruits the very first flowering year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on June 14, 2021, 02:27:38 PM

Also, I’ve noticed that many people are attempting to graft onto the Lavern Manilla mango seedlings but I recommend against grafting them until the trees are large and fully established with good scaffold branches.

I also want to remind everyone that if you have good soil, meaning that the pH is in the proper range and you have good drainage, you can plant the Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. I only recommend planting the more vigorous varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride or Lemon Zest for example. However, only plant Lemon Zest if you have good air flow or have low disease pressures.

Simon

Good point, Simon. I had extra Scions from the ST and Peach Cobbler after grafting onto my mature Atulfo tree. Not having experience with mango grafting, I wanted to make sure I grafted onto everything. Unfortunately, the peach cobbler graft on the little manilla didn't make it. If I get more scions, I'll be sure to graft as soon as I get them, rather than waiting a week.

I'll see if the little ST can survive the flushes during its first winter. I don't mind a stunted tree as I'm limited on space.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on June 14, 2021, 02:29:01 PM
Peach Cobbler seedings grow very well in my climate, and have fruits in 3 years. If fruits are not any special I will top and graft something on them.
Kent seedlings are more problematic -- disease and very slow at the first few years.

Sapote, are any of those trees roots messing with your pavers?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BobHawks on June 14, 2021, 02:40:17 PM
janetlee
if you are in the valley there is a great nursery in granada hills.
he will tell you what will or won't grow in our area
papayatreenursery.com
alex
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 16, 2021, 06:43:53 PM
Sapote, are any of those trees roots messing with your pavers?

My biggest tree is around 3 to 4" trunk near ground, so it is still not old, but not a sight of big surface root. The big main root is going down, not sideway as Sapote, orange or avocado. I don't think we need to worry about mango messing pavers.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 16, 2021, 06:53:53 PM
Here is my FL rootstock Maha in ground more than 6 years. I already planted a seedling next to it and will graft with Maha and then dig up the mother tree and trash it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hffhPQPq/MAHA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hffhPQPq)

and here is my favorite taste Imam-Pasand (Indian) mango graft from FL. This is the worst case and it looks more like tomato vine than a proud mango king of fruits, in ground for 7 year if you can believe it. Of course I had planted a seedling next to the drooping King to take over in a few years. So don't make the same mistake.

(https://i.postimg.cc/dZ2WHRsv/Iman-Pasand-Mango.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZ2WHRsv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on June 17, 2021, 08:12:51 PM
Holy cow, what a shame 7 years and this is what you have with your mango tree. In Burbank, you have much more heat than I in Huntington Beach but my oldest mango Trees (5years) have a much stronger and robust lower rootstock with relatively healthy growth (at least by California standards).  Here are the four golden rules I came up with over time if you want to have success in SoCal growing mango trees.

1.  Grow in sandy soil. Mango trees do poorly long-term in heavier clay-type soils. The smaller feeder roots need to spread out laterally and this is more challenging in heavier soils found in many parts of SoCal.

2.  Do not use Florida Turpentine rootstock in California if possible. Mango seedling trees work best (for later grafting) but not all seedling trees are vigorous growers. Out of 10 seedlings trees, 3-4 will be excellent for rootstock. I use Ataulfo Seeds from Mexican yellow mangos I buy at the store. Germinate 10 seeds and after 1-2 years plant the top 3-4 growers. You can also get Poly seeds from Florida and do the same thing as both methods should work well.

3.  When Grafting scions to the mango lower rootstock select faster and more vigorous varieties that do best in our marginal climate. Cac, Seacrest, Peach Cobbler, Lemon Zest, Guava, 0-15, and Buttercream are some examples of fast growers at my location. Sweet Tart, Val-Carrie, Mallika, Nam Doc Mai, and Angie are examples of moderately vigorous varieties that seem to do well at my location but they grow slower than the first group in general.

4.  Plant your mango trees South facing with full sun and no blockage from other trees or man-made obstacles. Maximum heat and Sun are some of the keys to long-term success.  Roots need space and oxygen for healthy growth. Avoid planting mango trees near cement or bricks that block nutrient intake from above.

Good Luck

Johnny

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 29, 2021, 12:56:48 PM
Here is my 7 years old Maha graft with turpentine rootstock from FL -- the tree got to 4 feet then drooped down and finally it acts like a tomato vine clawing on the ground some good looking fruits. I am waiting for the planted seedling to be tall enough to graft and pull the turpentine rootstock out:

(https://i.postimg.cc/8JDr10CH/IMG-2223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JDr10CH)

Here is the HD La Vern rootstock with LZ and Okrung Tong grafts on it at about same age:


(https://i.postimg.cc/YLL7Tpwy/IMG-2224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLL7Tpwy)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 29, 2021, 04:36:42 PM
here my winters 20222 tree that made its first crop this year.  this is the variety that a lot of CA nurseries are popogating because it grows well here.  The mangos turn purple when ripe and look really nice.  I havent tried it yet but its supposed to be decent. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/56qwYzMV/38545.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56qwYzMV)

This one is a super julie seedling from 2018, it hasnt fruited yet and grows really fast and upright.  I started more of these seeds this year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWkm757s/20210729-134042.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWkm757s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangoba on July 29, 2021, 04:57:11 PM
They look amazing! Brad, do you give them any special treatment as far as fertilizers?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 29, 2021, 05:42:29 PM
not really, mangos dont like a lot of fertilizer.  maybe thry need more potassium once they start producing but I have been using avocado fertilizer on the winters and hot chicken poop on the super julie, just small amounts a couple times a year.  and tree trimmer mulch. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on July 29, 2021, 08:37:31 PM
Wow, those look great!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on July 31, 2021, 02:04:53 AM
here my winters 20222 tree that made its first crop this year.  this is the variety that a lot of CA nurseries are popogating because it grows well here.  The mangos turn purple when ripe and look really nice.  I havent tried it yet but its supposed to be decent. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/56qwYzMV/38545.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/56qwYzMV)

This one is a super julie seedling from 2018, it hasnt fruited yet and grows really fast and upright.  I started more of these seeds this year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWkm757s/20210729-134042.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWkm757s)

Great looking trees, Brad. Is the winters variety a seedling or was it grafted? I really like the growth of that tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 31, 2021, 12:54:20 PM
Yeah the winters tree is grafted.  They sell it as "20222" oe "winters" some places.  Bonita creek has it and he just says its purple mango or something.  Exotica had them in the past, thats where i got mine around 5 years ago. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on August 04, 2021, 03:26:31 AM
Yeah the winters tree is grafted.  They sell it as "20222" oe "winters" some places.  Bonita creek has it and he just says its purple mango or something.  Exotica had them in the past, thats where i got mine around 5 years ago.

Thanks, Brad. Haven't been to Bonita Creek in some time. Please update us on a taste test even they are ripe.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangoba on August 19, 2021, 08:29:58 AM
When would you stop giving a young mango seedling nitrogen containing fertilizer? How cold does it have to get? Sandy soil very leaching here so I guess I can go as late as possible.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on August 20, 2021, 08:48:13 AM
I had a sweet tart mango that was accidentally picked at a non optimal time. I tried to ripen it. The mango started wrinkling so i decided to cut it open and try it. It was very tart with a sour belt candy quality. I thought the sugar level would be low possibly under 10 brix. To my surprise the sugar level was 25 brix. My guess is the fruit was just so start that it masked the sweetness. I wanted to plant the seed, however, there was no seed inside the husk.

Has anyone experienced a husk with no seed inside?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 20, 2021, 12:06:01 PM
Yes, many of my mangos have no seed. I usually call these nubbins. Nubbins are usually smaller than normal, can have a more rounded shape and most have a significantly higher number of lenticils. The nubbins are also usually much higher in Brix. My Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart nubbins are usually above 32% Brix.


I am guessing that the nubbins are caused by cold weather during pollination which may cause incomplete pollination. The pollination is enough to set the fruit but not enough to create the embryo. Fungus may also be a factor.

In many cases, the nubbins or the fruit without a seed are more likely to crack while sizing up.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 20, 2021, 12:19:22 PM
This year, my sweet-tart Mango Tree had over (40) fruit on the tree but one by one they cracked open on the tree with no seed. Looks like a total loss this year on my Sweet Tart.  Most of the fruit started to split heavily at about eight ounces in weight. Interestingly my Nam Doc Mai tree located nine feet away had no such issues. As Simon said likely a pollination issue or perhaps the tree is still too immature at this stage.

Enclosed are a few photos to illustrate.

Johnny

 
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY/8-U1-A3003-Sweet-Tart-Split-Mango-on-Tree-8-14-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY)
Sweet Tart Split 8-14-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkQ8wkVD/8-U1-A3004-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Split-Fruit-Cut-Open-No-Seed-8-14-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkQ8wkVD)
Sweet Tart With No Seed 8-14-2021
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on August 20, 2021, 02:59:59 PM
Thanks for the replies. Hopefully the one still on the tree gets to size up without cracking
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangoba on August 20, 2021, 03:33:03 PM
Yes, many of my mangos have no seed. I usually call these nubbins. Nubbins are usually smaller than normal, can have a more rounded shape and most have a significantly higher number of lenticils. The nubbins are also usually much higher in Brix. My Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart nubbins are usually above 32% Brix.


I am guessing that the nubbins are caused by cold weather during pollination which may cause incomplete pollination. The pollination is enough to set the fruit but not enough to create the embryo. Fungus may also be a factor.

In many cases, the nubbins or the fruit without a seed are more likely to crack while sizing up.

Simon

In Egypt those sell for twice the price as consumers enjoy their sweetness.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 20, 2021, 05:25:13 PM
This year, my sweet-tart Mango Tree had over (40) fruit on the tree but one by one they cracked open on the tree with no seed. Looks like a total loss this year on my Sweet Tart.  Most of the fruit started to split heavily at about eight ounces in weight. Interestingly my Nam Doc Mai tree located nine feet away had no such issues. As Simon said likely a pollination issue or perhaps the tree is still too immature at this stage.

Enclosed are a few photos to illustrate.

Johnny

 
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY/8-U1-A3003-Sweet-Tart-Split-Mango-on-Tree-8-14-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY)
Sweet Tart Split 8-14-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkQ8wkVD/8-U1-A3004-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Split-Fruit-Cut-Open-No-Seed-8-14-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkQ8wkVD)
Sweet Tart With No Seed 8-14-2021

One thing members can experiment with is to remove the early blooms or the early fruit set. You just have to ensure there is enough time and cold weather so that there will be a second or third bloom. You can tell ahead of time if the fruit are nubbins or not because of the more rounded shape and increased lenticils.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 20, 2021, 06:14:15 PM
Thanks for the info, Simon. I will try to remove some from the first bloom set and see what the results are compared to the later blooms witch will certainly come with our relatively cold winter/spring.

I will also likely apply Phyton 35 (Copper Sulfate) to most of my mango trees during early and mid-bloom with two applications spaced three weeks apart to hopefully prevent Powdery Mildew (PM). I noticed my Sweet Tart tree had some mildew on the early growth and I suspect it likely had it during flowering as well. I had fruit split on this tree last year as well but there were only a few mangos that had formed in 2020. Just trying to theorize and come up with some potential solutions. Just another obstacle in growing mango trees in SoCal. Looks like I am going to lose 100% of my sweet-tart crop this year at my coastal location. In 2022 I am going to let all of my older more established mango trees fruit to capacity for the first time. I feel the mango trees I planted in the Ground in 2016/2017 are large enough to hold a decent crop. I am optimistic about Val-Carrie as It had a very heavy fruit set this year but I removed the small pea size fruit to focus on vegetative tree growth, I will not do that in 2022.   

As an Interesting side the 2019 Sweet Tart graft I did to a Manila Mango tree in the ground, in Alhambra at my Brother in Laws house, is holding half a dozen fruit when I was over there in late July. I did not see any fruit split issues on that tree. This location is much further inland with considerably more heat and thus far it appears to have performed better. I will be going over there in September to get the fruit. At least I will have some sweet-tart to eat.

Johnny 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 20, 2021, 09:49:23 PM
Sweet tart seems to get droopy here, Im not happy with the way it grows.  I've got a tree thats grafted and also a sweet tart seedling that both get droopy.   The seedling tree made some fruit this year.

This is the sweettart seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJp2cvLb/20210820-182151.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJp2cvLb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N2T89jHn/20210820-182230.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2T89jHn)

This one was labeled peach cobler, I think maybe its one you grafted Simon but not sure where this tree came from.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gwQ6VPmb/20210820-181815.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwQ6VPmb)

This one is cotton candy, I got this tree from plantogram, it made 1 fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKV14Xkn/20210820-182306.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKV14Xkn)

This one is a taralay also from florida, its growing nicely, this tree grows nice and strong and erect
(https://i.postimg.cc/6TY4cR9h/20210820-182341.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TY4cR9h)

This ones the winters tree, the fruit look like they sre getting close.
(https://i.postimg.cc/H8xxRZp9/20210820-181435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8xxRZp9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rwX9qz0/20210820-181354.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rwX9qz0)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 21, 2021, 12:34:10 AM
This year, my sweet-tart Mango Tree had over (40) fruit on the tree but one by one they cracked open on the tree with no seed. Looks like a total loss this year on my Sweet Tart.   
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY/8-U1-A3003-Sweet-Tart-Split-Mango-on-Tree-8-14-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnJKnWhY)
Sweet Tart With No Seed 8-14-2021

These fruits were not mature and so I guess the flowers were bloomed in April or later and the weather should be not too cold. Do you have record of when did the flowers bloom? I have a 2 years old graft (on mature rootstock) and this year it hold about 4 ST fruits and all of them are big the size of the Kent in store -- not a single cracked.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 21, 2021, 12:42:46 AM
Sweet tart seems to get droopy here, Im not happy with the way it grows.  I've got a tree thats grafted and also a sweet tart seedling that both get droopy.   The seedling tree made some fruit this year.

(https://i.postimg.cc/N2T89jHn/20210820-182230.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2T89jHn)


Isn't ST fruit should start have red tint color at this development stage?

The other fruit does look like a Peach Cobbler.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 21, 2021, 01:43:57 AM
The fruit isn't ready yet, probably another month or 2.  That tree is a sweet tart seedling, its not grafted.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 21, 2021, 03:06:25 AM
Sapote,

I keep a photo record of all the fruit trees. Looks like I hit peak bloom in mid to late March 2021 at my location with this grafted Sweet-Tart. Below are a few photos from early, mid, and late March. At my other more inland location I am not getting fruit crack so I believe the cooler temps and earlier blooming at my location has something to do with the fruit splits with no seed.

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/Tybft7bX/8-U1-A7386-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-in-Bloom-3-30-PM-3-3-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tybft7bX)
Sweet Tart Early Bloom (3-3-2021)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gxCPLVTt/8-U1-A7721-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Blooming-Side-View-at-11-30-AM-3-13-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxCPLVTt)
Sweet Tart March Bloom (3-13-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/PL1nWLGX/8-U1-A7724-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Top-Half-with-Blooms-3-13-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PL1nWLGX)
Sweet Tart Bloom Close up 3-13-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/rRsrR2dk/8-U1-A8212-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Top-Half-Blooming-3-25-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRsrR2dk)
Sweet Tart Bloom 3-25-2021
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 21, 2021, 01:56:34 PM
Sapote,

I keep a photo record of all the fruit trees. Looks like I hit peak bloom in mid to late March 2021 at my location with this grafted Sweet-Tart. Below are a few photos from early, mid, and late March. At my other more inland location I am not getting fruit crack so I believe the cooler temps and earlier blooming at my location has something to do with the fruit splits with no seed.

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/Tybft7bX/8-U1-A7386-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-in-Bloom-3-30-PM-3-3-2020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tybft7bX)
Sweet Tart Early Bloom (3-3-2021)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gxCPLVTt/8-U1-A7721-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Blooming-Side-View-at-11-30-AM-3-13-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gxCPLVTt)
Sweet Tart March Bloom (3-13-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/PL1nWLGX/8-U1-A7724-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Top-Half-with-Blooms-3-13-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PL1nWLGX)
Sweet Tart Bloom Close up 3-13-2021

(https://i.postimg.cc/rRsrR2dk/8-U1-A8212-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Top-Half-Blooming-3-25-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rRsrR2dk)
Sweet Tart Bloom 3-25-2021

Johnny, your trees are looking fantastic! The structure on them is ideal and they should hold more and more fruit with each passing year. They have a great foundation for prolonged health and production. Keep up the great growing!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 22, 2021, 02:31:08 AM
Sapote,

I keep a photo record of all the fruit trees. Looks like I hit peak bloom in mid to late March 2021 at my location with this grafted Sweet-Tart.

This explains the crack. I have similar problem this year, and next year I will cut off all fruits before mid April. My big LZ holds about 7 big fruits now and these are from late flowers -- could be late April or even May. All of the early fruits from March or early April flowers were cracked and fell off.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 22, 2021, 05:11:28 PM
Isn't ST fruit should start have red tint color at this development stage?

My bad, I was mixed up ST and ST Maui, and the latter do have the red tint but I don't know about sweet tart.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on August 23, 2021, 02:20:39 PM


 

One thing members can experiment with is to remove the early blooms or the early fruit set. You just have to ensure there is enough time and cold weather so that there will be a second or third bloom. You can tell ahead of time if the fruit are nubbins or not because of the more rounded shape and increased lenticils.

Simon
[/quote]

Where do you make the cuts for rebloom? Take off most of the panicle? Below the panicle but above the terminal bud (from where the panicle blooms? Or below the terminal bud?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 23, 2021, 11:30:04 PM
I just remove all of the stalks or fruits + stems.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 24, 2021, 12:21:40 PM
I usually remove the entire old panicles and there is usually an intercalation there where there are multiple buds. I just cut right below the old bloom spikes, often cutting some buds, but it’s perfectly fine.

Sometimes my second blooms open in the rains or the weather is still very cold and I sometimes remove the second blooms early on to induce a later third bloom.

For Lemon Zest which is highly susceptible to Powdery Mildew, the first blooms are definitely no good for me at my location so I always remove them. The second blooms will sometimes set fruit but the third blooms set the most full sized fruit.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 24, 2021, 12:28:04 PM
I don’t want to over complicate things but I do want to mention that sometimes letting nature take its course will work out. For LZ, if you let the first blooms naturally dry up and fall off, it takes longer for the second bloom to initiate so the time frame for these naturally occurring second blooms without gardener intervention will closely match the timeline of the third blooms if the gardener clipped the first and second blooms.

You just have to look at the weather forecast, the health of your tree and keeps close eye on rains, cold weather and the fungal pressures around the time BEFORE the blooms open.

If you’re using any fungicide, you should treat the trees and neighboring trees prior to the blooms opening.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 24, 2021, 02:47:50 PM
In addition to what Simon said, one can pick the timing based on other more reliable varieties, such as Peach Cobbler and Lancetilla. These trees tend to have late flowering, in April or so, but LZ flower too early. So next year, I will wait until PC and Lancetilla have flowers then let LZ holding its own flowers.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 14, 2021, 07:13:50 PM
Just a quick update on my Sweet Tart Mango Tree. Only (3) fruit made it without major cracking issues in 2021. I picked one fruit three days ago and let it ripened off the tree. Just ate it today. Fantastic tasting mango even if it was slightly on the overripe side. Deep orange color with a rich and complex taste, juicy. I did not detect any tartness likely due to the overripeness but never the less it was a great tasting mango. I could eat these all day. This and the Indian Grown Alphonso tie as the best tasting mangos I have had. Now I can see why this cultivar is hyped and mine was not even likely at peak flavor. A great mango indeed. I hope for a better crop in 2022. I applied some calcium to the root system of my tree and hopefully, this will help next year.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 14, 2021, 09:10:56 PM
Awesome to hear Johnny! You propogsting those seeds or could you send them my way? Haha
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 15, 2021, 10:58:31 AM
Hey Victoria,

Unfortunately, the Sweet Tart seeds are not viable. Underdeveloped embryo. Actually, I was lucky to get any fruit this year considering the poor pollination in early spring. Changing my micronutrient application for all of my mango trees and as previously mentioned pulling early flowers off my ST next year. If I can ever get this tree to consistently produce this tree would be worth its weight in gold for me.

If I was growing from seed good candidates are Cac, Seacrest, and Guava. All three grow fast at my coastal location and would even do better in your area. I would contact some of our Florida mango munching friends in June-July next year to see if you can get some seeds. I would get at least 6-8 of each and select the best one or two for planting in the ground.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 15, 2021, 01:35:27 PM
Thanks for the in depth reply, I will give it a go next year and hope your new scheduling makes a better crop!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Madridje on September 15, 2021, 02:53:10 PM
When would planting in the ground be best for seedling grown mangoes?

Would you prep the soil with anything or just go ahead an plant?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 15, 2021, 06:01:58 PM
If i manage to get a seed from the few mangoes that produced this year, should i plant it in ground right away, even though winter is just around the corner?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on September 15, 2021, 07:02:35 PM
👍 I am curious too. I just planted some sweet tart seeds in the ground and they are starting to sprout now. I am planning to cover them in the winter. Thanks.

If i manage to get a seed from the few mangoes that produced this year, should i plant it in ground right away, even though winter is just around the corner?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 15, 2021, 09:01:20 PM
The best time to start growing Mango Seedlings is April-June in SoCal based on my experience. I usually start them in 5-gallon pots. Move them up to seven-gallon containers a year later. Never tried to start mango seeds this late in the season. We are heading into the cool months soon and growth will stop by late November. Not sure how they will work for you. Pots are easier as you can move the small plants inside if necessary to keep them warm during the coldest periods. Greenhouses are better yet. Let us know how they work out. Hopefully, you will have some survivors. 

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 16, 2021, 03:43:17 PM
When would planting in the ground be best for seedling grown mangoes?

Would you prep the soil with anything or just go ahead an plant?

My favorite time is June to mid September when night temp is 60F and above.  Favorite location for SoCal: Eastern side of the structure that will provide shade in the hot afternoon.
I planted the seeds directly on ground without even bending my back: place the seed (not de-hushed) on top of soil, cover it with 3" layer of leaves to keep the seed from drying out and the sun (in nature the falling seeds grow in the bush or thick much of leaves). Water the pile every day until 4" shoot appeared, then cut down to once per week. This direct in ground way save me from dealing with transplanting the long tap root seedlings, and I'm lazy.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 16, 2021, 04:27:14 PM
When would planting in the ground be best for seedling grown mangoes?

Would you prep the soil with anything or just go ahead an plant?

My favorite time is June to mid September when night temp is 60F and above.  Favorite location for SoCal: Eastern side of the structure that will provide shade in the hot afternoon.
I planted the seeds directly on ground without even bending my back: place the seed (not de-hushed) on top of soil, cover it with 3" layer of leaves to keep the seed from drying out and the sun (in nature the falling seeds grow in the bush or thick much of leaves). Water the pile every day until 4" shoot appeared, then cut down to once per week. This direct in ground way save me from dealing with transplanting the long tap root seedlings, and I'm lazy.
The best time to start growing Mango Seedlings is April-June in SoCal based on my experience. I usually start them in 5-gallon pots. Move them up to seven-gallon containers a year later. Never tried to start mango seeds this late in the season. We are heading into the cool months soon and growth will stop by late November. Not sure how they will work for you. Pots are easier as you can move the small plants inside if necessary to keep them warm during the coldest periods. Greenhouses are better yet. Let us know how they work out. Hopefully, you will have some survivors. 

Johnny

Would a seed taken from a ripe fruit at the end of september be viable until june or should i just risk planting it as soon as possible and baby it through winter?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Madridje on September 16, 2021, 05:28:39 PM
All the one's I have are in 1 gallon right now. I have only one in a 5 gallon.

How sensitive are mangoes when it comes to transplanting them from container to soil?

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on September 17, 2021, 09:25:33 PM
All the one's I have are in 1 gallon right now. I have only one in a 5 gallon.

How sensitive are mangoes when it comes to transplanting them from container to soil?

Madridje
In my opinion, mangos are easily transferred from containers to ground.   If you read thru this thread, you'll read up on some of the common issues with growing mangos in Southern California.  Simon has posted some instructions for planting mango trees.  The common issue is that some grafted trees (this will depend on the variety) from Florida don't do as well in California.  The growth will be extremely slow for the first couple of years (maybe a foot of growth) or unsatisfactory growth (such as droopy growth).  I have replaced three such trees after harvesting the scions (those were expensive scions!).   

I'm planting mango seeds and going the seedling route.  The seedlings have vigorous roots, don't forget to upsize the containers after a month (especially the 1 gallon pots).  You don't want the roots to be circling the bottom of the pots.

Cheers,
Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 18, 2021, 08:07:59 PM
Hey guys, I'm curious if Valencia Pride is usually this late in the season for SoCal. My tree didn't set fruit the first two flowerings this year due to what seems like bad water management on my part. A little cold snap later in the season cause a little bit of flowering and it hung on to one fruit with my revised watering schedule.

But this fruit is on the tree and no hint of yellow to it this far. I'm not complaining just wondering if it is typical.


(https://i.postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP/20210918-165722.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 19, 2021, 03:36:00 PM
Hey guys, I'm curious if Valencia Pride is usually this late in the season for SoCal. My tree didn't set fruit the first two flowerings this year due to what seems like bad water management on my part. A little cold snap later in the season cause a little bit of flowering and it hung on to one fruit with my revised watering schedule.

But this fruit is on the tree and no hint of yellow to it this far. I'm not complaining just wondering if it is typical.


(https://i.postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP/20210918-165722.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP)
I think I start seeing them in markets around now, but those are the ones grown in coachella valley.

It would be a little later riverside, and a bit later still more coastal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on September 20, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Hey guys, I'm curious if Valencia Pride is usually this late in the season for SoCal. My tree didn't set fruit the first two flowerings this year due to what seems like bad water management on my part. A little cold snap later in the season cause a little bit of flowering and it hung on to one fruit with my revised watering schedule.

But this fruit is on the tree and no hint of yellow to it this far. I'm not complaining just wondering if it is typical.


(https://i.postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP/20210918-165722.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn9HwfvP)

Hi Victoria Ave,
Can you elaborate a little bit on the bad water management that led the tree not setting fruit and the revised watering schedule that resolved the problem? Thanks
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 21, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
Finally got to try a sweet tart mango. It met all the expectations. I only got 2 sweet tarts this year so hoping for at least 2x next year.

Here are some pics and review.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBZmBM82/6-CFE82-B8-E4-CD-454-A-A99-D-A31-EC8169012.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBZmBM82)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMksyXvV/D1-DF2257-89-E9-4-D8-F-942-C-38054-CF744-ED.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMksyXvV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sQcrp4KX/D77-D7-C6-D-9-BCD-4505-B632-C8-A7-CBA1-B8-DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQcrp4KX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tn4HDnmz/42598-C2-A-71-DD-4142-AC10-D2-A3-DE697-DEE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tn4HDnmz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3w90BHw/83763-AF1-9-A81-4-CD0-ABCD-A4064-A10-F1-AE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3w90BHw)

Picked: 09/16/2021

Consumed: 9/21/21

Sweet Tart Nubbin (West Covina)

Weight: when picked 285grams. 262 grams when eaten (dont know if fruit loses weight as it ripens or if it is a scale issue

Exterior color: mostly yellow with green

Interior color : Deep orange almost apricot like color

Brix: 29 near seed. 31 near skin

Aroma: Complex smells sweet and piney.

Texture: the outside of the fruit was semi firm, not mushy nor wrinkly gave slightly to pressure. The inside very soft but not mushy or overly delicate. You could take a bite and it would hold its shape. But there is no need to chew. You can press the flesh with your tongue to the roof of your mouth and extract the syrup, then swallow the flesh.  The flesh was slippery with syrup. when cut the syrup gushed out of the mango slowly and clung to the knife. It was not watery like when cutting open a watermelon. It was similar ripe peaches only more viscous. The flesh was virtually fiberless.

Flavor: Sweet with some tartness on the back end. complex mango flavor. Flavor close to the skin more piney, resiney with cola syrup taste. Various different flavors are perceived with each bite. Goes from syrup sweet mango to pops of vegetal pineyness to tart overtones in a matter of seconds. Very hard to describe as you are thinking of one flavor another one barges in taking away your focus on the previous flavor. Makes it hard to put your finger on exactly what flavors are present. Fruit did not feel overly sweet given its very high brix. The tartness likely balanced the high sugar. Tartness was not overly strong, however, since the brix was at least 29 the fact that it was perceivable points to a strong tart flavor if brix had been lower. The tartness itself is not a citrus tartness but more of a sour candy (like the tart of sour belts). Outstanding overall fruit.

Negatives: the fruit was a nubbin and the husk had no seed.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 21, 2021, 03:12:43 PM
An excellent report on your Sweet Tart. Eating mine was an awesome experience too. I have another one ripening now on the counter and will be picking up (2) more at my Brother-in-laws house next week.

If I can solve the pollination issue in 2022 and should have over 40+ fruits on my tree next year.

Good Luck with your tree.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 21, 2021, 05:46:55 PM
If I can solve the pollination issue in 2022 and should have over 40+ fruits on my tree next year.

I doubt the tree is large enough to hold 40+ fruits.

My 3 years old grafted scion holds 2 fruits for the first time. Not ripe yet. Burbank is hotter than Huntington Beach and so I'm surprised that your is ripening.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Madridje on September 21, 2021, 05:49:02 PM
@Goyo626 & Johnny Eat Fruit:

Are your ST mango trees seedling grown or grafted?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 21, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
@Goyo626 & Johnny Eat Fruit:

Are your ST mango trees seedling grown or grafted?
grafted with manila rootstock. If i could start over i would try and get a sweet tart seed.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Madridje on September 21, 2021, 07:57:17 PM
Why is that? Is it due to the rate at which its growing?

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 21, 2021, 08:39:44 PM
Why is that? Is it due to the rate at which its growing?

My grafted sweet tart gets droopy mid to late winter. Im hoping as the tree matures it grows out of the problem. A seedling is more likely to be more vigorous and have a tap root. Also a seedling wont flower for the first couple of years allowing for more growth flushes per year. I have had a couple of grafted trees that have flowered in their second year in ground which has slowed its growth. If i had to start over i would find members that are willing to sell polyembryonic seeds of top varieties and grow trees from seeds.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: johnb51 on September 21, 2021, 11:30:04 PM
If i had to start over i would find members that are willing to sell polyembryonic seeds of top varieties and grow trees from seeds.
Makes sense, especially for SoCal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Seanny on September 22, 2021, 01:42:29 AM
Some mango trees get droopy from over watering.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 22, 2021, 08:43:32 AM
Some mango trees get droopy from over watering.

I dont think my sweet tart is droopy due to overwatering. I dont water during winter and i dont get much rain i think we got less that 15” of rain all last year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: johnb51 on September 22, 2021, 09:41:11 AM
 8) Which ones are the polyembryonic varieties?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on September 22, 2021, 10:14:36 AM
8) Which ones are the polyembryonic varieties?

Ive done some research on the matter both from the tropical acres website and old threads on this forum. Sweet tart, m-4, buttercream, honeykiss, and  ppk are all poly.

Following thread might be helpful to find more poly seeds.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12030.msg392320#msg392320
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Madridje on September 22, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 22, 2021, 12:30:38 PM
Its ok to grow mono seeds as well
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: johnb51 on September 22, 2021, 12:59:06 PM
Its ok to grow mono seeds as well
Do you plant them in the ground, and then graft on top?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 23, 2021, 12:41:01 AM
Mangos both Polyembryonic and Monoembryonic can get droopy. Most of the time, it is caused by grafting mature scions to non established trees. The mature scions, if grafted in warm weather will grow vegetatively but the scions are often apical tops and the scions sometimes branch out too many shoots. If excessive shoots are left on the branches, or if you tip a mango tree in California too much, the excessive vegetative growths will weigh down the branches and cause drooping. The initial flush of vegetative shoots usually isn’t enough weight to cause drooping but secondary or tertiary vegetative flushes, especially if not thinned will cause drooping. This issue can be exacerbated by over fertilizing and over watering combined with improper training of the trees scaffold branches.

One way around this is to prep the scions by cutting off the apical tip and leaving only 3-5 evenly spaced leaf petioles or petiole scars. This will create fewer branches but you should still thin the branches to 2-3 branches. For vigorous varieties that tend to send out long branches, don’t let secondary branches grow in controlled because the internodes will be spaced very far apart and the branches will grow very long.

They should be pruned back leaving only 3-5 petioles or you can remove the apical tip after a specific length like 12-18 inches for example.


The second cause of droopy trees and the more common cause of drooping trees is grafting with mature scions that begins to bloom in its first Winter after grafting. The blooms are very heavy and need to be thinned by cutting off 1/2 to 2/3 of the entire bloom panicle after it is mostly formed. Removal of the entire bloom panicle will often result in another new bloom cycle.

In Winter when mangos begin to bloom, you have to keep a careful eye on the structure of your tree and especially focus on the shape of your branches. If a branch starts drooping from the weight of the flowers, trim off some of the blooms and if it still wants to droop, stake up the branch.

In California, mango trees begin lignification prior to blooming and continue through winter and early spring. If your tree gets droopy branches during blooming and the shape is not immediately fixed, the branch will lignify into its permanent shape and it will be nearly impossible to correct the shape.

It’s no big deal if you get droopy branches however as long as you white wash exposed horizontally oriented wood that will be exposed to full sun in Summer. Droopy branches can also be trimmed off.

Sorry that was kinda long winded, I haven’t been on the forums much lately because I’m doing a lot of experimenting with Yangmei and have very little free time.

Anyways, if you have the space, even just a small space, you should definitely be growing Mangos in SoCal!

You just can beat harvesting a fully formed Sweet Tart, E4, Coconut Cream or any number of awesome tasting mango from your own tree. A few days ago, harvested this Coconut Cream
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cnb8WBNG/0622919-D-18-D5-4685-968-A-0-C5274713-DBC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cnb8WBNG)
And this E4
(https://i.postimg.cc/jDMf0rzF/F6741-BA4-0-B25-44-C1-BF62-53-B8-D630-AD3-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jDMf0rzF)
And had a Coconut flavored mango taste off with my daughters and we all agreed the E4 had more Coconut flavor and the Coconut Cream had more tropical mango flavor with a hint of coconut. We all preferred the E4 but the Coconut Cream was incredible as well.

Today, I cut open this Sweet Tart with absolutely no embryo. I call it a nubbin because it is smaller, rounder, has very prominent lenticils and usually has an aborted seed. These nubbins can get decent sized and are usually super sweet. This mango was awesome with perfect acidity and also extremely sweet, probably too sweet for some people. It definitely lives up to its name!

(https://i.postimg.cc/BLmQY2RL/161-BDA11-DA46-45-F1-A579-9444-E9-CADA83.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLmQY2RL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/y3W6wkzf/393-EABE4-93-D2-4411-B8-E3-B31917-D2671-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/y3W6wkzf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JychXfqQ/94-C15713-85-F2-4-E38-8-FD0-C03-A7-C6036-B5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JychXfqQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2Sxfg1b/F6306052-39-FB-4607-BA73-69-C729792-D16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2Sxfg1b)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 23, 2021, 08:57:28 PM
Thanks for four detailed explanations of droopyness on mango trees, Simon.

If my Coconut Cream mango tree produces next year I would be excited to taste this variety. In 2021 it bloomed heavily but no fruit. Five-year-old tree.  Enclosed are a few photos of my Coconut Cream mano Tree with a few Seacrest Grafts which are growing more vertically.

My E-4 grafts failed this year to my older and more established mango seedling trees. Likely due to a lack of heat and a very cool and mild summer at my location.

I guess Seedless mango fruit is becoming more common here in SoCal. My Sweet Tart fruit was that way but still excellent tasting. The hype is justified on that variety. Until you tasted a Sweet Tart you have yet to experience a truly top-tier indo Chinese mango. 

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/phbL9hLh/8-U1-A4370-Coconut-Cream-Seacrest-Mango-Tree-Side-View-9-19-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phbL9hLh)
Coconut Cream Mango Tree on Manila Root-stock

(https://i.postimg.cc/PvrJhC4g/8-U1-A4367-Coconut-Cream-Seacrest-Mango-Tree-with-New-Growth-9-19-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvrJhC4g)
Coconut Cream & Seacrest
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2021, 12:05:08 AM
Great looking trees Johnny!

I’ve had pretty bad luck fruiting Coconut Cream. I believe this graft is about 5 years old as well and it’s the first CC fruit I harvested from it. It may be one of those varieties that just like to settle down really well before holding fruit.

My CC is grown on Florida Rootstock with Lemon Zest as an inter stock and it still drooped to the ground.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 24, 2021, 01:07:41 PM
Hey Simon,

My Coconut Cream has to fruit over the next year or two. I do have patience but I don't want to wait 8-10 years after grafting to get a few mangos. Not worth it to me when other varieties are much more productive at an earlier age. I have already top worked 1/3 of the CC tree to Seacrest and Guava Mango. The manila root-stock appears vigorous so what I graft to this tree should do well. Will keep you posted on what happens in 2022 and 2023 regarding fruit formation on this tree.

One good thing about CC is that from June to October the tree is always flushing somewhere. Always getting new growth and branch formation. I wish all my mango trees grew this well. This year I have been trimming downward and side growing branches forcing new vertical growth on my coconut cream. Hopefully fruiting soon.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 24, 2021, 08:55:16 PM
Johnny, if CC doesn’t fruit for you in the next couple years, top work it with E4 and you won’t regret it. I grafted E4 last year and even with my high fungal disease pressures, I still got fruit within the first year. I don’t encourage members to let their new grafts hold fruit but I really needed to find out if it was disease resistant in my area and also if the fruit quality was good when grown in SoCal. The answer is YES to both.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on September 24, 2021, 10:11:16 PM
Thanks, Simon. I know E-4 is a great mango. Will try to graft again next year. Luckily I still have many top-tier mangos growing on my property. Glad you were able to get fruit and give us your opinion on the E-4 fruit grown in SoCal.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 02, 2021, 03:14:58 PM
Heres what the sweet tart seedling looks like Simon I picked it today so maybe on Thursday it will be ready if you want to try it.


(https://i.postimg.cc/4mb7zzW0/20211002-120928.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mb7zzW0)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 02, 2021, 10:00:31 PM
Hey Brad, sounds good, I’ll stop by when it’s ripe. I should have something ripening as well.

This year, my Sweet Tart mangos produced more nubbins than full sized fruit but the nubbins are fairly large, no seed or very small seed, super Super super sweet and excellent tart balance. They may be too chalky for some people but everyone I shared it with was blown away.

The average Brix on these Sweet Tart nubbins are 35% Brix, usually between 32-38%. This year, many of my nubbins are sweating sap beads from almost all the lenticils. Sweet Tart has been extremely excellent this year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VJt22N8v/136656-CB-1938-4-EB5-A14-F-3262-CD229-EC5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJt22N8v)

(https://i.postimg.cc/94js2jmp/2770-D182-AC27-445-C-BFC6-E828-E88-E4204.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94js2jmp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtcZTb3d/AD58-AF3-E-257-D-4-D0-D-8465-C24-E168364-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtcZTb3d)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 02, 2021, 10:05:46 PM
Here’s a picture of the sap beads
(https://i.postimg.cc/2VZHSXXX/5-EC23-CBE-969-F-47-AA-8012-BFD516-E750-B9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VZHSXXX)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 03, 2021, 01:15:02 PM
this J12 seedling is looking really good.  it will probably flower for the first time this winter.  this tree has been such a good grower, I got a few more J12 seeds and planted them just this weekend. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/N5bTnP5T/20211002-093024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5bTnP5T)

Heres a pic of the new trees, I got these seeds a couple months ago and sprouted them and have now started planting them in ground.  The roots were already filling the pots.  The key is to get them in early enough they can get a little growth on before winter hits.  So they will hopefully do a small flush by new years and then harden off and be ok for their first winter.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ykFB6wFg/20211002-121546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ykFB6wFg)

heres a coc seedling next to the j12 seedling.  the coc plant is a year or 2 younger. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBRp482n/20211002-093115.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBRp482n)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 03, 2021, 01:32:11 PM
Awesome looking canopies!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Monty on October 03, 2021, 02:49:11 PM
I sprouted a few too many Kent and Ataulfo seeds. Does anbody want them? I cant throw them out. Also I bought a Manilla mango tree from Home Depot  few months ago and changed my mind about planting it after reeding more of this mango thread. Would anyone pay me $15 for it? It's about 3 feet tall. I live in Lakeside.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jDJ0ZNBT/20211003-103119.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jDJ0ZNBT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6yqN4F0y/20211003-103139.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yqN4F0y)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RollingInTheWeeds on October 03, 2021, 06:15:09 PM
this J12 seedling is looking really good.  it will probably flower for the first time this winter.  this tree has been such a good grower, I got a few more J12 seeds and planted them just this weekend. 

@spaugh I've never even heard of J12.  Where do you get these things?  Having fruit shipped from Florida or something?
And are you planning on top grafting, or is the seedling fruit itself good?

@Monty -- Man, I sure wish we lived closer to one another.  I have some Kent seedlings, but I want to graft Atualfo to them to make some of Simon's "super rootstock".  Unfortunately the seeds I planted from my honey mangos this year all rotted.  I hope you find a taker.  It's a shame when we can't get the "I have too many" folks together with the "I'm looking for" people.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 05, 2021, 02:45:44 PM
Also I bought a Manilla mango tree from Home Depot  few months ago and changed my mind about planting it after reeding more of this mango thread.

Why you don't like to plant the HD tree? It is a seedling sold by La Verne I believe. Many people plated it for rootstock, include me, and it is a fine rootstock for grafting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Monty on October 05, 2021, 09:35:29 PM
I want to plant Sweet Tart seeds so I won't have to graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 09, 2021, 06:22:59 PM
The sweet tart seedling fruit tasted awesome here.  Also taralay is really a nice mango.  Im pretty stoked to get some home grown mangos this year.  I assume the sweet tart mango is a clone but I dont know for sure.  Tastes awesome either way and never had to mess with grafting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 09, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
Awesome Brad! So far the Sweet Tart seedlings all taste like the real Sweet Tart. I love the fact that we don’t have to graft.

One variety that we may want to graft is O-15. I’ve heard some reports that this variety is pretty awesome!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 10, 2021, 01:19:13 AM
this J12 seedling is looking really good.  it will probably flower for the first time this winter.  this tree has been such a good grower, I got a few more J12 seeds and planted them just this weekend. 

@spaugh I've never even heard of J12.  Where do you get these things?  Having fruit shipped from Florida or something?
And are you planning on top grafting, or is the seedling fruit itself good?

@Monty -- Man, I sure wish we lived closer to one another.  I have some Kent seedlings, but I want to graft Atualfo to them to make some of Simon's "super rootstock".  Unfortunately the seeds I planted from my honey mangos this year all rotted.  I hope you find a taker.  It's a shame when we can't get the "I have too many" folks together with the "I'm looking for" people.

The J12 is a zills mango someone sent Simon seeds years ago and we grew it here.  Its been named super julie I think. 

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 11, 2021, 11:48:08 AM
Hey Simon,

I will let you know in the future regarding the 0-15 mango. In 2020 I grafted it onto two mango seedling trees, one inland in Alhambra and another to my manila seedling rootstock at my HB location. I just planted my 0-15 in the ground this summer and it completed its first growth flush and is doing well. Planted it to the West of my Coconut Cream mango tree. (See 1st photo)

My Orange Sherbet mango tree on altaulfo, in 15 gallon, is just now finishing a fall flush. I Will likely have to move this to a 30" tree box since I am now out of room at my location for planting in the ground.

Johnny

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/p2FYYpM/8-U1-A5151-0-15-Mango-Tree-after-Growth-Flush-10-4-2021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2FYYpM)<br />
0-15 Mango Tree (10-4-2021)

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/stfgLNW/8-U1-A5229-Orange-Sherbet-Mango-Tree-with-New-Growth-10-7-2021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/stfgLNW)<br />
Orange Sherbet Mango Tree on Ataulfo (10-7-2021)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 11, 2021, 06:11:47 PM
Awesome Johnny,

My friend is growing O-15 and a couple of us are probably going to do a mini mango tasting at Leo Manuel’s house pretty soon. He received his booster shot and I haven’t visited him in some time because of COVID but it’s about time to reconnect with friends in a safe and responsible manner.

On a side note, I’ve noticed that my J12 fruit are significantly larger than Julie fruit I’ve had in the past. I added new drippers to my mango trees and they all probably got too much water so I’m hoping the flavor isn’t watered down too much. I’ve noticed in the past that when I over water, I get large fruit at the expensive of fruit quality(lower Brix and less concentrated flavor).

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 11, 2021, 07:55:35 PM
I finally got to eat a few winters mangos.  The tree made a good sized crop this year.  Unfortunately the flavor isnt that great and the fruit have some other issues.  They are taking a really long time to get ripe on the tree and the skin is thick.  The inside of the fruit is nice and low fiber and it is sweet but theres no acid.  It tastes like a very plain mango flavor like kent or something.  I actually like the store kents better.  It does grow well and set fruit though.  But I think this tree will need to be top worked.  I dont even know how to top work a mango tree this size. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 11, 2021, 10:33:25 PM
That’s a bummer regarding the Winters mango. I remember several years back, I tried to get ahold of a Winters (20222) tree because the mangos had a really nice blush hanging from the tree. Great production makes it more appealing, but unspectacular flavor is a big turnoff.
I have a vigorous Manila seedling (Home Depot special) that I decided to topwork entirely over the next couple seasons. I could have lived with a vigorous mango tree that produced fruit similar to Ataulfo mango, but it delivers the most fiber filled mangos I’ve ever eaten. This tree got the Devito genes of the Manila mango clone apparently.  On the other hand, I have a Paheri, Sensation, and Okrung seedling trees that produced for the first time this year, all solid mangos that are a testament to their parentage. Maybe I will post details in the mango seedling thread.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 11, 2021, 10:48:17 PM
Was jogging in downtown San Diego east village over the weekend and spotted this 20+ foot beast doing its thing. Largest I have seen in the downtown area. Sorry for the crappy pict.
<br />(https://i.ibb.co/rbrH7PV/667492-AA-6237-457-D-8181-B12-FDEAE7830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rbrH7PV)<br />
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 12, 2021, 01:51:02 PM
I finally got to eat a few winters mangos.  The tree made a good sized crop this year.  Unfortunately the flavor isnt that great and the fruit have some other issues.  They are taking a really long time to get ripe on the tree and the skin is thick.  The inside of the fruit is nice and low fiber and it is sweet but theres no acid.  It tastes like a very plain mango flavor like kent or something.  I actually like the store kents better.  It does grow well and set fruit though.  But I think this tree will need to be top worked.  I dont even know how to top work a mango tree this size.

Let me know when you’re ready and I can top work it with one of the better varieties like E4 next year. I just need to find a source for E4 scions come next year. I have two small branches of E4 that were grafted last year but they didn’t grow much because I let them hold fruit. E4 is an amazing variety and early signs are that it is disease resistant and productive.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 12, 2021, 02:21:56 PM
We have an E4 seedling tree that looks really good here.  I dont know if E4 is poly or not but we could use the immature E4 seedling scionwood for top working maybe.  Im going to chop the winters tree down in May and then we can graft the new shoots in July with something better. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 13, 2021, 12:55:41 AM
E4 is Polyembryonic but it can often have just a single sprout. I have an E4 seedling which came from a seed that only had one sprout and it’s growing like a champ. It is very vertical and split into 3-4 main branches at around 5 feet tall.

I also have two other E4 seedlings that I grafted onto other trees and they are also growing very well. Hopefully these seedlings will produce good fruit!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sc4001992 on October 13, 2021, 07:21:58 AM
Brad, I bought some Kent mangos from the store and they looked good but were bad. Most of them (bought case of 5 each) were already starting to go bad inside even though the outside looked really nice and ripe. I got 2 boxes and there were none that I could eat that tasted good, seemed to have a lot of fiber as well. Now I bought some Keitt from the same asian market and they were large ( 2 lbs each) and they were excellent tasting to me. No fibers, super sweet, I don't remember eating any that are better. I'm planning to grow out the 10 seeds of the Keitt with excellent taste.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sbtropic on October 13, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
How vigorous are Keitt seedlings? How long would it take them to fruit? I have a grafted Keitt that produces like a champ up here in Santa Barbara. My tree produces delicious large fruit. It is the only Mango tree that I have that does not require spraying for PM. PM is a big problem here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 13, 2021, 12:13:49 PM
Brad, I bought some Kent mangos from the store and they looked good but were bad. Most of them (bought case of 5 each) were already starting to go bad inside even though the outside looked really nice and ripe. I got 2 boxes and there were none that I could eat that tasted good, seemed to have a lot of fiber as well. Now I bought some Keitt from the same asian market and they were large ( 2 lbs each) and they were excellent tasting to me. No fibers, super sweet, I don't remember eating any that are better. I'm planning to grow out the 10 seeds of the Keitt with excellent taste.

I havent tried any store mangos this year but in years past Simon was buying cases of kents that had a super high brix and were very enjoyable.  Its hit and miss.  Keitts are good but the seeds dont seem to grow well.  I think you are better off growing zills seeds. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sbtropic on October 13, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Brad, what is the best way to purchase some of Zills seeds or seedlings? Which ones are the fastest to grow and  or produce fruit?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 13, 2021, 03:44:45 PM
After numerous grafting failures this year from Florida purchased scions I finally broke down and bought a Sugarloaf (E-4) mango tree (See 1st photo) which will go into my greenhouse and provide many fresh scions for 2022 grafting. I Will graft E-4 to my Coconut cream and other mango seedling trees already in the ground. Being able to prepare and graft fresh scions from your own tree has given me a much higher success rate for grafting. I am really looking forward to trying this fruit in a few years.

Also just purchased two Pina Colada Mango Seedling plants that germinated earlier this summer from a seller on Ebay (See 2nd & 3rd photo). They are sold out now but as soon as I saw the new ad I jumped on it. These should also grow well in my greenhouse and the seeds are Poly. The original cost for the small seedlings was $25 each including shipping to California.

Johnny

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/kB47zc0/8-U1-A5274-Sugerloaf-E-4-Mango-Tree-Planted-in-5-Gal-Container-10-8-2021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kB47zc0)<br />
Sugarloaf (E-4) Mango Tree

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/yYg2c6q/8-U1-A5332-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-2-in-Container-10-11-2021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYg2c6q)<br />
Pina Colada Mango Seedling

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/41X4jBj/8-U1-A5328-Pina-Colada-Mango-Seedling-Tree-1-in-Container-10-11-2021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41X4jBj)<br />
2nd Pina Colada Seedling
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 18, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Was jogging in downtown San Diego east village over the weekend and spotted this 20+ foot beast doing its thing. Largest I have seen in the downtown area. Sorry for the crappy pict.
<br />(https://i.ibb.co/rbrH7PV/667492-AA-6237-457-D-8181-B12-FDEAE7830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rbrH7PV)<br />

See the 2 small yellow fruits; probably a HD La Verne variety. Needs top off and graft with bests of the bests.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 18, 2021, 09:13:07 PM
After numerous grafting failures this year from Florida purchased scions ...

Which graft method you try? Cleft is good for pencil size branch and it's should be a very reliable method.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 18, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
I bought some Kent mangos from the store and they looked good but were bad. Most of them (bought case of 5 each) were already starting to go bad inside even though the outside looked really nice and ripe.

From Mexico or farther away? Black color inside? Far away counties use different treatment and cause black inside.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on October 20, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Sprouts Farmers Market has been selling Keitt Mangos (mostly green with little color) the last few weeks.  The label says USA, - are these the Coachella Valley grown?  Has anyone tried them?  They looked too green for me so I passed on them.  I always pass when I see Tommys from somewhere in So. America.  Store bought Tommys are why some of my friends dislike mangos.

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RollingInTheWeeds on October 20, 2021, 05:23:51 PM
I'm never eating a Tommy Atkins again.  You might as well buy a chunk of pine resin.  I found one Keitt at the grocery store recently.  It had pretty good color and ripened up ok , but they had probably just been put on the shelf.  Most were green as could be.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: LuvFig on October 20, 2021, 08:02:42 PM
Sprouts Farmers Market has been selling Keitt Mangos (mostly green with little color) the last few weeks.  The label says USA, - are these the Coachella Valley grown?  Has anyone tried them?  They looked too green for me so I passed on them.  I always pass when I see Tommys from somewhere in So. America.  Store bought Tommys are why some of my friends dislike mangos.

Tony

Hi Tony,

I bought some Keitt mangoes (both regular and the organic) from Sprouts 3x in the last few weeks.  Some had a slight yellow color and some were very green at the time of purchase.  It took a long time for them to turn color and soft to touch. The first batch I had to throw away because they were spoiled even they turn yellow.  I tasted the second batch  just 3 days ago, and they were ok, and already too ripe despite the green color;  the end toward the stem were sweeter than the other end and starting to spoil.  Definitely not as good as in August's.  I would not buy them again this late in future.  The third batch is still sitting on the counter and is soft enough to eat.  If you really really want to taste fresh mango badly, then go ahead but don't expect the quality like the prime season ones.

All the Best,
Grace
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sbtropic on October 20, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
<br />(https://i.ibb.co/jDh8XLD/Keitt-Mango.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jDh8XLD)<br />

Some workers bumped my Keitt Mango tree today while we were trapping for gophers and this is what came off. I usually pick these a month or two from now. We will have to see how it turns out.

Try the Indian and Asian markets in LA. The quality can be much better. Every once in a while you find a store owner that loves a good mango and they order the best. The large traditional American supermarkets often don't know what a good mango is.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on October 21, 2021, 08:04:35 PM
@Grace (Luvfig), thanks for the information on the Keitt mangos at Sprouts.  Glad I passed on the Keitts.   
@sbtropic, if the Keitts at Sprouts looked like the one on your photo - I would have given them a try (most were a solid green and hard)

My mango trees have been supplying me with a decent amount of mangos (Mahachanok, NDM, and Valencia Pride).  The Valencia Pride have been the biggest surprise for me this year. Three of the nine that I harvested had a strong coconut flavor.   I still remember the first coconut tasting VP.  I was sharing it with my neighbors and my first bite into it was, oh no, it has an off-flavor - a few seconds later, the coconut flavor came thru, followed by the sweet classic mango flavor mixed with the coconut flavor - very enjoyable.  My neighbors said it was much better than last years fruit.  From what I can tell, the early fruit on the lower branches had the coconut flavor and the fruit on the higher branches were the normal tasting VP.  Has anyone had Valencia Pride mango with the coconut flavor?

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 22, 2021, 12:43:49 AM
Hey Tony,

Reading through previous posts researching Valencia prides I have several times encountered people mentioning a coconut flavor to them. My fruit is still hanging on the tree and ripening here in Riverside (just starting to get red blush but no yellow yet) and ai am very excited to taste what I hope is a proper Valencia Pride and not the more stunted fruit I harvested in prior years.

As an aside, if you have any spare NDM or Maha seeds I'd love to take them off your hands!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on October 22, 2021, 12:38:54 PM
Hey Tony,

Reading through previous posts researching Valencia prides I have several times encountered people mentioning a coconut flavor to them. My fruit is still hanging on the tree and ripening here in Riverside (just starting to get red blush but no yellow yet) and ai am very excited to taste what I hope is a proper Valencia Pride and not the more stunted fruit I harvested in prior years.

As an aside, if you have any spare NDM or Maha seeds I'd love to take them off your hands!

Hello Victoria Ave,

Here is what a perfectly ripen Valencia Pride should look like (this is a medium size one) :

<br />(https://i.ibb.co/BgCJswV/VP.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BgCJswV)<br />

(IMHO, i think that the Valencia Pride and Mahas are some of most visually appealing mangos)

Re: Maha seeds, I harvested the last fruit a week ago - all gone.  I have some late season NDM that will be ready in late November (I will save the seeds for you).  I may have some extra seedlings of Ataulfo, Kent, Gary, Honeykiss and Ceci Love available next spring.  They are growing in 5 gallon pots at the moment. 

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Much appreciated Tony! I would be interested in seeds and seedlings!

Interesting that your Maha was done before others. I was under the impression Maha was a very late season tree.

My Valencia looks like it has a at least a couple more weeks on the tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 22, 2021, 03:25:50 PM
My fruit is still hanging on the tree and ripening here in Riverside (just starting to get red blush but no yellow yet) and ai am very excited to taste what I hope is a proper Valencia Pride and not the more stunted fruit I harvested in prior years.

When to pick: when the green skin starts turning to yellow, cut the stem off with about 1/2" attached on the fruit to prevent the valuable oil bleeding out. Keep in room temperature until most of the green turned to yellow then eating time. Don't delay or inside becomes jelly seed.

If you like Valencia, then plant the giant version: Lancetilla taste and look the same but over 2 pounds huge fruit.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on October 23, 2021, 01:32:30 PM
I'm in a zone 10 in SoCal with fortunately very mild winters.  I would like to try to fill out my mango season to have either ripe fruits or green mature fruits all year long.  For now I have a gap from Nov to Jan. Does anyone know of varieties that will still carry mature greenish or ripe fruits from November to January in our area?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 23, 2021, 02:17:12 PM
For now I have a gap from Nov to Jan.
how do you manage to have fruits from Feb to June?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on October 23, 2021, 05:56:18 PM
Sorry Max I think I should rephrase what I mean by having fruits. I enjoy most of my mangos while green even if it's sweet or sour.  I will occassionally eat them ripe in a bountiful year. I grow mainly 3 varieties.  Nam Doc Mai#4 and Laverne Manila fills my months from Feb through Jun. But again very mild weather here.  NDM#4 blooms 3 sometimes 4 times a year for me but very prone to powdery mildew and fruit split for me.  Currently I have hundreds of fruitlets about 1 to 2 inch in size, they will be ready to eat green and sour around Feb.  And if left to mature, it will probably ripen in May and June.  But I start to pick them as some of our spring rains will lead to fruit splitting.  Around May and and June, the Laverne Manila produces edible green immature sour fruits that are edible even around the size of apricots. They lack a strong resin and are edible even small.  Some mangos are not edible as a green sour mango at that small size.  Those manila I dont think are any good when they develop a husky seed and ripe fruits are very aromatic but small and fibrous.  My months where I'm completely out of edible mango is Nov through Jan, ahah.  Hoping to find some local sources of other varieties, my luck with graftong shipped scions from Florida hasn't been too good.  I definitely would like to share/swap various fruits/scions.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on October 25, 2021, 01:06:52 PM
Interesting that your Maha was done before others. I was under the impression Maha was a very late season tree.

My Valencia looks like it has a at least a couple more weeks on the tree.

My Maha and NDM are early bloomers (late January and February).  They are on a multi-grafted Manila root stock.  My stand-alone NDM tree has consistently bloomed multiple times each year.  It's most likely the location (NE area of the house next to a block wall).  It's October 23 and 1/4 of the tree is blooming again.  It's all about the micro-climates.
<br />(https://i.ibb.co/kgKJvbR/NDM.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kgKJvbR)<br /><br />image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)<br />
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Groovyfruit on November 03, 2021, 01:33:41 AM
Hi All,
    You all have some very nice SoCal Mango trees around.  For those on this thread, I'm interested in learning more about the soil you use for your In Ground Mango trees.  In particular, I was considering the best way to plant Mango trees into the typical sandy clay that characterizes some Inland Empire or Orange County areas.   Assuming that drainage isn't too big a problem do you tend to plant in (1) straight native sandy clay,  (2) supplement with some percentage of sand / gypsum / pumice, or (3) alter the planting hole some other way?  Also, does the rootstock or variety matter in the decision of your soil choices?

Thanks Ahead.
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on November 03, 2021, 01:01:24 PM
I think most people will add a bit of organic matter and mix it with native soil to amend it. But not too much as you want the roots to not linger only where you added soil but to begin to spread out.  It's probably more important to add a layer of mulch regularly.
More importantly in California it would be the mango rootstock.  There's some good info on this in the earlier messages on this thread.  I have a 15 year old turpentine rootstock tree that is barely cracking 6 ft tall growing in clay soil and a family member of mine has one that is probably 12 years old barely 4 1/2 feet tall growing in very sandy fast draining soil.  Some have mention that the cultivar grafted on these turpentine matters and some varieties do way better.  I don't know what's in the soil/water there in Florida that makes turpentine thrive in Florida and not in California hahah.  I would recommend getting a Laverne Manila they grow very vigorously.  They are easily available at Home Depot and then graft varieties you want onto them. Sometimes Armestrong would carry a Keitt grafted onto a Manila from Laverne also.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on November 03, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
Sorry Max I think I should rephrase what I mean by having fruits. I enjoy most of my mangos while green even if it's sweet or sour.  I will occassionally eat them ripe in a bountiful year. I grow mainly 3 varieties.  Nam Doc Mai#4 and Laverne Manila fills my months from Feb through Jun. But again very mild weather here.  NDM#4 blooms 3 sometimes 4 times a year for me but very prone to powdery mildew and fruit split for me.  Currently I have hundreds of fruitlets about 1 to 2 inch in size, they will be ready to eat green and sour around Feb.  And if left to mature, it will probably ripen in May and June.  But I start to pick them as some of our spring rains will lead to fruit splitting.  Around May and and June, the Laverne Manila produces edible green immature sour fruits that are edible even around the size of apricots. They lack a strong resin and are edible even small.  Some mangos are not edible as a green sour mango at that small size.  Those manila I dont think are any good when they develop a husky seed and ripe fruits are very aromatic but small and fibrous.  My months where I'm completely out of edible mango is Nov through Jan, ahah.  Hoping to find some local sources of other varieties, my luck with graftong shipped scions from Florida hasn't been too good.  I definitely would like to share/swap various fruits/scions.

Your fruit cycle is completely different from the norm as you pick the fruits much early and the trees provided multiple crops per year, so it will be tough for us to guess what varieties can fill your need in Nov to Jan.  I didn't know that La Verne Manila fruits have any value but I'm glad you had found the way to enjoy them. In my yard, the latest mango in the season is Lancetilla.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 03, 2021, 10:07:49 PM
Hi All,
    You all have some very nice SoCal Mango trees around.  For those on this thread, I'm interested in learning more about the soil you use for your In Ground Mango trees.  In particular, I was considering the best way to plant Mango trees into the typical sandy clay that characterizes some Inland Empire or Orange County areas.   Assuming that drainage isn't too big a problem do you tend to plant in (1) straight native sandy clay,  (2) supplement with some percentage of sand / gypsum / pumice, or (3) alter the planting hole some other way?  Also, does the rootstock or variety matter in the decision of your soil choices?

Thanks Ahead.

Sand and clay soil is very different but if you have good drainage, I’m assuming you have sandy soil.

It’s probably best to plant directly into your native soil wether it’s sandy or clay. Dig a square hole with sharp corners so the roots don’t circle. You can add about 25-50% or more of a good quality top soil but make sure it’s just top soil and not mulch or compost. Top soil will generally add a bit of organic matter and may help sandy soil retain moisture.

Plant selection is critical and I highly recommend planting many seedlings from mono and Polyembryonic seeds/fruit. Also plant a couple Home Depot Manilla mangos and plant them directly into the soil and don’t graft any of your seedlings until they have developed their scaffold branches.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on November 21, 2021, 01:41:07 PM
Unfortunately I came home today to find my Valencia Pride which was just starting to turn yellow the other day when I left had split on the tree. Luckily it seems to be close to ripe so I covered the split with a bandaid and put it in a paper bag with bananas hopefully I'm a few days it will have a little give and I can enjoy my first properly grown mango!

Reason for the split? I'm guessing it may well be the hot and dry Santa Ana winds we've been having. At the end of summer I switched my irrigation timer from every 4 days to every 7 going off on Sunday. I imagine the hot dry winds this week changed the ETO drastically I should have irrigated a little sooner. But if anyone has any other theories let me know
(https://i.postimg.cc/wytvzj8L/20211121-092604.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wytvzj8L)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KRhzXb93/20211121-093132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRhzXb93)

(https://i.postimg.cc/z3gBPvk1/20211121-093641.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3gBPvk1)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on November 21, 2021, 02:56:30 PM
Two more of my top tier California seedling first Parson a seedling of Juliette
2nd SA06 a seedling of ppk
Both of these have hit 30 brix with excellent coconuty and citrus flavor

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mfy0H61Q/044-C1-E63-F8-E8-40-E2-B578-72-AC4-C86-F4-DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mfy0H61Q)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QV5J0bvd/81226-F4-D-9358-422-F-ADE7-5-AD4-EE9522-C1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QV5J0bvd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dLjmK0sM/88957-B76-24-A3-4033-B585-D9793-BFAB45-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dLjmK0sM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tZnN0tTD/9-CAA6537-31-FC-41-E0-867-A-DAF28-AE1-BA6-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZnN0tTD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/87kdkVc7/A061940-B-503-A-42-A8-81-A0-619-B33-ECF158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87kdkVc7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CzgHt8VH/F64-F559-D-E6-F7-4365-8-F20-7-CFF7406-C71-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzgHt8VH)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 21, 2021, 08:41:37 PM
Looking delicious JF, our mutual friend agreed that Parson was very good. Hopefully we can sample all these fruit at a future mango tasting. Lots of great seedling selections out there!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on November 22, 2021, 08:27:27 PM
Reason for the split?

I think the cold temp at night. Never seen a band aid used on injured mango before. It's kind of late for VP fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Gulfgardener on December 14, 2021, 11:43:32 AM
I spent the night reading this thread lol. The info here really is invaluable not only to CA but I think to growers in cooler climates in general. I'm on the FL panhandle waiting to build a greenhouse. I have 5 mangos in pots and I've noticed the slow growth due to flowering/short growing season.  I've also noticed my Indian mangos Kesar and Malika haven't grown in the low droopy way my Sugarloaf, Pickering and Carrie have. Have you noticed this with Indian types? This is only the second winter with them so it could be nothing. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on January 19, 2022, 08:41:48 AM
Is now the time to cut off first bloom?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on January 19, 2022, 05:36:48 PM
Unfortunately I came home today to find my Valencia Pride which was just starting to turn yellow the other day when I left had split on the tree. Luckily it seems to be close to ripe so I covered the split with a bandaid and put it in a paper bag with bananas hopefully I'm a few days it will have a little give and I can enjoy my first properly grown mango!

Reason for the split? I'm guessing it may well be the hot and dry Santa Ana winds we've been having. At the end of summer I switched my irrigation timer from every 4 days to every 7 going off on Sunday. I imagine the hot dry winds this week changed the ETO drastically I should have irrigated a little sooner. But if anyone has any other theories let me know
(https://i.postimg.cc/wytvzj8L/20211121-092604.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wytvzj8L)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KRhzXb93/20211121-093132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRhzXb93)

(https://i.postimg.cc/z3gBPvk1/20211121-093641.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3gBPvk1)

Sorry for the late reply but VP is prone to splitting. Especially if soil moisture or atmospheric humidity has large swings.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on January 19, 2022, 05:46:16 PM
Is now the time to cut off first bloom?

Allow the blooms to fully form and then cut off 1/2 to 2/3 of each panicle. If your tree is young or has weak branches, you can trim the blooms earlier in order to avoid the weight of the blooms to cause the branches to droop. This type of bloom trimming is only for young or non established trees that you don’t want to fruit.

When young mango trees in colder climates blooms, the weight of the panicles causes the branches to droop to a horizontal position which exposes the cambium to the sun which in turn can lead to sunburn. If your branches are already hardened in a horizontal position, you can paint the exposed surfaces with a 50:50 mixture of white paint and water. You’ll have to look up what type of paint as I can’t remember.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on January 19, 2022, 08:13:05 PM
Is now the time to cut off first bloom?

Allow the blooms to fully form and then cut off 1/2 to 2/3 of each panicle. If your tree is young or has weak branches, you can trim the blooms earlier in order to avoid the weight of the blooms to cause the branches to droop. This type of bloom trimming is only for young or non established trees that you don’t want to fruit.

When young mango trees in colder climates blooms, the weight of the panicles causes the branches to droop to a horizontal position which exposes the cambium to the sun which in turn can lead to sunburn. If your branches are already hardened in a horizontal position, you can paint the exposed surfaces with a 50:50 mixture of white paint and water. You’ll have to look up what type of paint as I can’t remember.

Simon

Thanks for the response. I was thinking about getting a second bloom. I read it earlier in a thread that cutting off first bloom at the right time would cause a second bloom to occur. And second bloom is less prone to powdery mildew. Just curious as to when is the right time to do it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on January 19, 2022, 09:38:45 PM
It really depends on the weather patterns and it’s the average low temps that determine if a push is vegetative, blooms or partial blooms. If you remove the blooms too early, like now, you may need a third bloom to avoid the fungal issues.

I would let your blooms develop almost completely and then thin out half the volume of the blooms and then let any fruit set. Around Early March, if you have no or poor fruit set, remove all the blooms in hopes of a secondary bloom.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on January 19, 2022, 09:46:28 PM
Thanks ill give it a shot for at least some of the trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on April 15, 2022, 05:27:49 PM
Hey all, had some time this morning to take care of my trees so thought I’d post an update on my yard


(https://i.postimg.cc/PvpqPCkX/1538-D4-D4-BE56-48-D6-8023-D4192-D34-EDD5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvpqPCkX)

California native plants as ground cover between my mangos on the shady side of the house. Now that days are longer these trees are getting about 4-5 hours of direct sun on the NE corner of my house and liking it.

 
(https://i.postimg.cc/V5gyCfN1/198217-B5-3132-4550-8-FB8-676-CDAFE38-C3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5gyCfN1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jCt02wtZ/66-F8-B7-E5-85-E9-4-E68-AB9-A-B6-B8-E5118-C60.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCt02wtZ)

Manga espada seedling. This seems quite vigorous, was multi branched when I got it and at each terminal node is consistently puts out about 5 to seven shoots which I have been nipping back to 3. No cold damage at all and started flushing before any of my other trees. Put out a few small blooms but nothing took. May graft a limb or two as there seems plenty to spare. Would like to try the fruit off of this and grow for rootstock.



(https://i.postimg.cc/JtYLF7Cx/6-BEA2810-09-B3-4491-97-B5-82-CD7006-C305.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtYLF7Cx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JGgRsrT0/CE5-CB3-EF-A342-417-E-89-F7-BF0-E2314936-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGgRsrT0)

Mallika flowering like crazy. This one took the most cold damage out of my trees. Had three nights of around 32° F weather and I covered and put Christmas lights on after I noticed all the leaf tips on the plant crisped up. Has flowered early and strongly, lots of female flowers. As tempted as I am to let fruit form I’m going to snip all off once night weather gets warmer. Thinking about snipping the central leader off and going with and open vase shape from the three scaffold branches, but it seems a waste of all that growth. Thoughts?



(https://i.postimg.cc/qgJKLwpn/039-E374-C-D1-A9-4-EC8-861-F-A9-E8-DF440-C97.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgJKLwpn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZpBfHvR/B078-B550-F805-482-B-BEA4-CF07-BF9-E655-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZpBfHvR)

Valencia pride bark graft is growing strongly on my chopped root stock. Graft was my first graft attempt and 1 out of three scions took. The light green leaves are fresh growth from this scion. I have three good scaffold branches that have developed for me to try grafting onto again when June rolls around. I already have a list of varieties I want to graft. And it greatly out numbers my trees to graft on to. I think I will limit this trees to three varieties max.

 

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZC3yYMcG/D542-DADD-7199-4-E14-8-AA8-EB8-BCF5-A7-CA0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZC3yYMcG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7fvfRNkm/EABD5-CAC-E490-4-FDA-B816-C18-A475-D746-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fvfRNkm)

My scraggly looking 7’ tall Valencia pride. Last year was first year it started growing vegetive growth well with about three flushes. Some areas gaining about a foot or more. It held one fruit to maturity, but I believe that was my fault for not irrigating enough during fruit set as it held a fruit from a late cold snap after I set up automatic irrigation and got regular on it. Tree has flowered well and lots of little fruitlets, but the ratio of female flowers is no where near as high as on My Mallika. Last week it reached day time temps of 100° F. This whole week night temps have been down into the 40°s maybe I’ll get another bloom set.

On the flowers shown am I seeing powdery mildew? I didn’t want to jump the gun and start spraying like crazy so the past couple mornings I have hosed the tree down well and today I snipped all the flowers like this off (just portions not the whole panicle).

Was thinking about grafting a couple branches that don’t hold fruit this year (really hoping for a good fruit set!) with Val-Carrie as this sounds. Like it would be a fun combo. Hoping my seedling grafted with VP will grow much more vigorously than this tree which has maintained the same size since I bought it from a nursery straight from Florida.


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 16, 2022, 11:44:39 AM
Victoria Ave, great updates on your trees. Your trees are looking happy and healthy. If any of your branches start getting droopy from the weight of the blooms, you can remove about half the bloom panicle to relief the weight. Just don’t remove the entire bloom until it gets much warmer- average nightly lows above 62F.

I’m glad you are also planting some seedlings. Plant as many different varieties of seedlings as you can. The greater the genetic diversity, the better your odds of finding a rootstock that thrives in your specific soil and microclimate.

I highly, highly recommend this technique to everyone attempting to grow mango in SoCal. You will be shocked at the growth rate of some seedling trees but the secret sauce is to get a hold of as many different varieties of seeds as you can, both Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic. I’ve found that seedlings from my mango fruit and fruit given to me by friends to just take off like a rocket.

Generally you have about 3-4 years of vegetative growth before your seedling tree will bloom and if you can maximize growth by fertilizing during the hottest months of those 3 years, you should be able to form a great foundation of scaffold branches to graft onto in the future.

You may be interested in varieties like Sweet Tart, Ceci love, Peach Cobbler, Pineapple Pleasure, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, Kathy, Venus, E4, M4 and O-15.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on April 17, 2022, 10:36:02 AM
Based on observations at my location, the 0-15 Mango appears to be a good grower. I am optimistic about this tree as I just planted it in the ground in 2021 and it grew well in our cooler summer that year. The 0-15 was grafted onto a manila seedling and as you can see from the photo is doing well.

As Simon has mentioned there is great variation in the growth and vigor of various mango seedlings. Some are excellent and grow robustly while others are weak and lack vigor. Having a strong mango rootstock is key for long-term success.

Also regarding Lemon Zest in SoCal here are some observations about growth. I have two grafted LZ mango trees, one at my coastal location and another in inland Alhambra just south of Pasadena. Both trees were grafted onto Ataulfo rootstock and both are good rootstock. I have noticed better and faster growth at the Alhambra location which is 15-20 degrees warmer in the summer. The Lemon Zest appears to thrive more with increased inland heat. 

Johnny

 
(https://i.postimg.cc/n9tpB9ns/8-U1-A9025-0-15-Mango-Tree-with-Blooms-4-4-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9tpB9ns)
Young 0-15 Mango Tree (4-4-2022)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on April 17, 2022, 01:57:22 PM
Hey all, had some time this morning to take care of my trees so thought I’d post an update on my yard
My advice: don't graft on any seedlings until they are over 8 ft with trunk bigger than 2.5". Graft too early will stop growing and end up with droopy trees regardless seedling variety. The graft will spend most energy in making flowers and fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 18, 2022, 02:17:05 PM
Hey all, had some time this morning to take care of my trees so thought I’d post an update on my yard
My advice: don't graft on any seedlings until they are over 8 ft with trunk bigger than 2.5". Graft too early will stop growing and end up with droopy trees regardless seedling variety. The graft will spend most energy in making flowers and fruits.

I second sapote, scions grafted to small 2-3 year old seedlings will droop no matter what seedling variety is used. People posting pic of seedlings with 2.5" trunk are at least 8 years old or older here in SoCal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on April 18, 2022, 09:49:45 PM
Thanks for all the input.

I was hoping to go to Florida this mango season to try more mangoes as my exposure has been super market mangos, and what I’ve had in Malaysia. And I was going to stuff my bags with fruit to try growing from seed, but unfortunately the timing doesn’t work out well for me. I’m hoping to get to try some more, and not just have to wait for my varieties to fruit! My Valencia pride last year was the best mango I’ve had, but I’m sure I’m bias.

All of my non fruiting trees I fertilized over the weekend with the oscomote 6 month slow release fertilizer, so should be good for this growing season. My big tree I’ve just been fertilizing with fish and kelp emulsion every two weeks, with a 0-0-7 kelp extract mixed in. Trying to keep nitrogen on the lower side and focus on fruits.

I guess I will hold back on grafting my other seedlings, but my seedling I grafted the Valencia pride to was 9 feet tall and had a trunk of two inches when I chopped and grafted. Am I good to graft the scaffold branches that have popped out? Or should I let those grow taller then graft them? I’m just eager to get great fruits!

I hope to get some good fruits, seeds, and seedlings however I can. Grow some in the ground and get some in pots going. I don’t know if my home will be my forever home so I would like a head start on if I move or acquire another property
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 18, 2022, 11:36:18 PM
You may be able to obtain some seeds by posting on the buy/sell forum. I’m sure there will be members that would sell you some seeds or even gift you some seeds.

For me, the height of the tree isn’t the determining factor for when to top work a tree because some trees grow tall and lanky.  A two inch diameter tree is fine for grafting but nine feet would be too tall for my personal liking.

I try to create trees with 3-4 scaffold branches at around 3-4 feet and then I top work each one of the scaffold branches. Once you top work your tree, you should allow it to have at least 2 growth flushes before allowing it to hold fruit so that it doesn’t get stunted or die back on you. This is only relevant in colder climates.

If you plan on moving soon, it’s a good idea to have some seedlings in pots but don’t allow the seedlings to get potbound.

Simon

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on April 19, 2022, 12:04:45 AM
Thanks Simon!

I hope to be able to participate in a socal mango tasting eventually and bring a crop! Appreciate the input from all, I have read a lot of your posts from over the years and appreciate all the knowledge you’ve brought and facilitated to the scene
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 20, 2022, 12:14:11 AM
No problem!

I just also want to mention that it’s very difficult to predict what Mother Nature will do.

When I say “ I try to create trees with 3-4 scaffold branches at 3-4 feet”, that is my goal but in reality, trees don’t always grow the way we want them to. I realize that I’ve been talking about how ideal trees should look but I’ve failed to explain that these trees are more the exception than the norm.

Things don’t always go as planned and sometimes you just have to work with what you have. Most of what I have learned is from making mistakes, lots and lots of mistakes.

Yes, it’s good to do as much research as possible before you do something in order to avoid making unnecessary mistakes but don’t be afraid to make mistakes, especially on trees. I learn so much more from my mistakes because I get first hand experience of what Not to do and it’s outcome.

I have many mango trees where I grafted them too small (young) and I discovered that’s not a good thing because in our cold climate, the tiny trees try to bloom and hold fruit which ultimately stunts them. I’ve also grafted to small branches on big trees only to discover that the surrounding canopy shaded out my grafts and ultimately killed it. Through this, I learned the importance of maintenance pruning list grafting and also to consider apical dominance and site selection prior to grafting.

All this just to say go for it, kill a tree or fifty and learn from your mistakes. Measure twice, cut once is a great saying but to never have cut at all is a shame.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mbmango on May 20, 2022, 03:06:14 AM
A Gary seedling, sowed last July: (https://i.postimg.cc/8JFJRzk2/IMG-3550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JFJRzk2)
I've only tried maybe 200 or so seedlings over the years, and the oldest survivors I have, in-ground, started flowering at around 5 years old at the earliest.  Just a curiosity, as it's among dozens of others next to the house.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MasonG31 on June 02, 2022, 01:17:25 PM
A Gary seedling, sowed last July: (https://i.postimg.cc/8JFJRzk2/IMG-3550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JFJRzk2)
I've only tried maybe 200 or so seedlings over the years, and the oldest survivors I have, in-ground, started flowering at around 5 years old at the earliest.  Just a curiosity, as it's among dozens of others next to the house.

I planted a Gary seed last year as well.  To my surprise, it's polyembryonic! There are at least four shoots growing out.  Unfortunately it's a slow grower, but I'm excited because Gary was a standout mango for me last year.  To me, it had more coconut flavor than Coconut Cream and M4.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mbmango on June 03, 2022, 02:13:22 AM
Interesting about the flavor.  Seemed like creamy citrus to me, but I would totally appreciate coconut.  I wish I would have been able to sample CC and M4.  The most coconut I tasted was in some Pickerings, and maybe a few Pina Coladas (but those were more pina than otherwise).

For Gary, I tried 4 seeds, but only 1 sprouted 3. I split them just after sprouting to avoid having to untangle more roots later.  The runtiest didn't survive the winter, but #2 is hanging on, although very sluggish.

 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on June 03, 2022, 07:37:03 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtB5pzxw/2944-E8-AE-8-F13-4-FC2-99-F8-0538-C64-CCCB5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtB5pzxw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7pnMrNQ/645-F470-B-D3-E8-4-F7-A-985-C-05-D6-E78690-BE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7pnMrNQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qg8FGcFq/E1868-E6-B-8817-44-E6-864-A-1-D0-D45-C0-A1-BF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qg8FGcFq)

Crazy performance from this neglected potted mango my gf family has. Barely watered, never fertilized. Unknown Home Depot with no graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on June 24, 2022, 11:58:59 PM
Anyone else get late blooms in the last week? I thought my sweet tart was going to start flushing vegetatively but they decided to bloom again. My atulfo, manila, and other recently grafted sweet tart are all growing without more blooms.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on June 25, 2022, 10:22:45 AM
My NDM #4 bloomed again within the last week. It was already loaded with fruitlets of various sizes but decided those were not plenty enough, no complains though  :D
Cotton candy and Carrie are blooming now while holding ftuitlets but not as much as the NDM.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on June 25, 2022, 11:04:56 AM
My Valencia pride sent out a bloom two weeks ago, but I think this last bit of hot weather has finally switched over to veg mode I believe. It seems the fruit holds better on the tree when it blooms in warmer weather, this cluster is the largest I’ve ever had mangoes develop in cluster like this. Hoping more than one of them hang in there.


(https://i.postimg.cc/PpKjTw38/F208374-B-73-F6-4-DEA-92-A6-EBE5-C4-F9-DAFD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpKjTw38)


I am continually amazed by the vigor of this espada seedling. It constantly sends out 6-7 new shoots at node sites. So before it’s next flush I cut all the tips below the nodes to get better structure. It worked beautifully, but in addition to pushing every bud beneath the cut it is also pushing multiple buds from the nodes below. Guess I’m just going to let it do it thing


(https://i.postimg.cc/64NvJFPQ/433-E4-F5-D-A46-F-42-B6-8239-18-F04-FE72-A00.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/64NvJFPQ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on June 25, 2022, 01:56:36 PM
My Nam Doc Mai #4 was also blooming again recently so I did some trimming to remove the blooms as there is already fruit on the tree (See 1st photo)

I do wish all of my mango trees produced as much fruit as my apple trees. I would be loaded every year. (See 2nd photo)

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8MqGkJC/8-U1-A0986-Nam-Doc-Mai-Mango-Tree-after-Trimming-at-1-PM-6-22-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8MqGkJC)
Nam Doc Mai Mango Tree (6-22-2022)


(https://i.postimg.cc/fVvsxpSh/8-U1-A1001-Fuji-Apple-Tree-with-New-Growth-Lots-of-Fruit-AP-6-22-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVvsxpSh)
Apple Tree loaded (6-22-22)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on June 25, 2022, 02:04:50 PM
I hope to have a mango tree half as productive as my nectarine tree some day haha
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on June 25, 2022, 05:45:01 PM
That's some good growth, guys! NDM is one of the ones I'm considering to graft on the atulfo. Seems to do well here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 25, 2022, 09:20:04 PM
Try planting NDM seedlings. I planted a few NDM seedlings and they grew vigorously for me. Since NDM is Polyembryonic, you may get lucky and not have to graft it. You also gave the added benefit that since it’s a seedling, it will grow vegetatively for several years before it blooms.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on June 26, 2022, 12:50:46 AM
Well what started out looking like it will be a great year turn out bad.  Lost most of my fruits to what I think may be a powdery mildew symptom when it effects fruits.  Anthracnose symptoms seems to look different.  I could tell there was trouble when it gets to the size of an apricot. Skin gets rough and develop what seems to be microfractures.  Fruit stays stunted. There's no seed embryo and the seed husk premature hardens off.  I had this 2 years in a row after 3 years of great production.  What do you guys think? Seen anything like this before.  Below is a fruit not effected accompanied with one's that are, same variety.  It seems to effect some varieties slightly different. NDM#4 seems to have a lil bit of the rough skin but fruits split open in half, no seed embryo. Laverne Manila seems less effected but the fruits effected stays stunted and develop a premature hard seedhusk early, no seed embryo.  I will have to try Sapote's method next year of just trimming off all the early blooms and wait for the 2nd flush. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZ0R7rXs/Screenshot-20220625-213115-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZ0R7rXs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4KJ1sGZw/Screenshot-20220625-213043-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KJ1sGZw)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on August 02, 2022, 07:26:35 PM
Hello Eggo,

Well what started out looking like it will be a great year turn out bad.  I understand that sentiment.  I had very similar issues with my NDM and Maha with the early fruit.  I will be lucky if this years harvest is 1/2 the size of last years mango crop.  No Orange Sherbet, Lemon Zest, or Sweet Tart this year - the few I had all dropped by end of May. On the positive side, the trees have had two very good growth flushes (with signs of a third starting).  I'm focusing on vegetive growth now.

Just out of curiosity, how are the other Southern California mango growers doing?  How does this year's potential mango harvest look compared to last years: the same, smaller, larger?

Cheers,

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 02, 2022, 10:02:37 PM
I have some fruit in 2022 but not a lot. Sweet Tart, Cac, Nam Doc Mai, Guava, and Angie.

Many of my mango trees I trimmed to remove the lower branches and force vegetative growth upwards. I would have had more fruit on my trees but I removed some fruit earlier to refocus on growth especially on, mango trees younger than six years old.

I have come to the conclusion that most mango trees will not start to reach maximum production and high-quality fruit until reaching 8-10 years of age in SoCal. Many new mango growers in California think in a few years they can have good fruit and a productive tree. While this may be possible in Southern Florida with Sub-Tropical conditions in Socal we have much longer winters in a mild Mediterranean climate. Even inland with hot summers the long winter and cool spring temperatures tend to slow growth tremendously and extend flowering relative to Florida.

Growing mango Trees is a long and difficult process and most people are too impatient to wait for the long-term rewards. You can always force a young mango tree to produce fruit after a few years but the real rewards come years later. Just a reality check for our SoCal mango growers.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 12, 2022, 11:01:32 PM
Just returned from a 2 week vacation and was really pleased with my trees, considering the neglect in nearly the hottest part of the year.

My Valencia Pride holds 4 mangos this year, up from one last year.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SYx8PPS5/236-C92-FA-C432-42-FB-A452-6-FC0-DDCD123-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYx8PPS5)

Last year the tree had a sprout from low. Usually I always removed these but I let two develop. These have grown more vigorously than the rest of the tree and provided bud wood which took readily (above the graft). I then realized that they are growing below this wound on the trunk which was caused by leaving tangle foot on too long one year and it really messed up the bark.

So now I’m letting some scaffold branches from below the wound grow and hopefully balance out the tree.


(https://i.postimg.cc/FfPhZC61/3060481-F-A990-4-DFF-B410-976-C1-F899-B6-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfPhZC61)


(https://i.postimg.cc/7GdwvGwk/BD442-F60-C532-4-A88-868-B-80-F55-FF90-E95.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7GdwvGwk)

My cocktail tree is kicking ass. On July 1st I grafted onto 5 scaffold branches which grew from when I chopped it last year, and 4 out of 5 grafts are going strong and 1 remains to see if it takes. So now the tree has sweet tart, Carrie, and Valencia Pride. If the last graft takes then it will add Edward.



(https://i.postimg.cc/2qN0tCPK/62719-C0-C-A166-4-F45-A786-DFFD9-A5-A489-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2qN0tCPK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rdGfXvTF/F1-C64-F5-D-1541-4962-A908-4-A86012-EFA74.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdGfXvTF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtqXQYVR/FCA9-E839-C44-B-4125-96-BE-6503584-D93-D1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtqXQYVR)

A orange sherbet seedling got absolutely roasted by the sun, I’m hoping it bounces back but I broke my ankle so the trees are kind of to the wolves now.


(https://i.postimg.cc/MXn11hLM/17561476-B9-CC-493-C-A30-F-77-FC3-D6-E2-EA3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXn11hLM)

The CAC seedling on the other side of the planter (where totally covered by the shade cloth when the late afternoon sun) is doing much better and recovering from shipping damage.

I have seedlings I ordered from tropical acres, after recovering from shipping and aggressive repotting (they were pretty root bound) all but the orange sherbet are growing well in either the ground or 3 gallon fabric pots. It’s pretty cool watching the different seedling grow differently. Honey kiss node spacing is so much more compact than any mango tree I’ve seen.

I ordered a box of madam Francis mangos earlier this year (paying way too much) and have 5 good seedlings coming along, which is nice because I really liked some of the ones I had, big flavor, not terrible fiber. It’s a messy delicious fruit. They are growing and I’m excited to see how they grow out
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: fruitnut1944 on August 13, 2022, 12:18:08 PM
Victoria Ave: I like your report. That's helpful to this novice mango grower. And I hope your ankle is better soon..!!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mysteryknight on August 13, 2022, 12:33:47 PM
I was fortunate enough to get a big load of mango seeds from a friend in FL. Here is a surprise varigated Mallika seedling! Anyone else ever get varigated seedlings?
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C/PXL-20220805-025905285.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 13, 2022, 12:57:52 PM
That is pretty cool! Interested to see if that variegation sticks. I’d be careful with putting it into full sun as it will be more prone to sun damage, and as a fruiting tree it may not get enough energy to perform well, as the areas without chlorophyll do not perform photosynthesis. That said it would make a lovely house plant, and if you ever want to sell it to me as such I’d be interested in adding it to my collection haha!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mysteryknight on August 13, 2022, 09:29:43 PM
It is currently thriving in full sun so we shall see🌞
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Fygee on August 15, 2022, 05:39:14 PM
Upping the difficulty here. Vegas desert.

Unlike avocados, mangoes have been proven to be able to fruit here. It's just really, really rare because barely anyone knows how to grow them in soil, humidity, and weather like ours. High pH, clay soil with rocks and awful drainage. Super hard water. Hot as hell in the summer more often than not. Temps get perilously close to, or occasionally a little under freezing. Every 7 or 8 years we'll get just enough snow to make life miserable for plants.

I have some polyembryonic seeds I started of Lemon Zest, Lemon Meringue, and Coco Cream and my experiment is to grow the cloned shoots without grafting so they have a better chance at being vigorous and more tolerant of our conditions.

Two questions:

When digging the hole, should I mostly stick to native soil? And if so, should I amend it with some organic matter at all, or other things like sand/sulfur? Or just leave it as is and top dress with sulfur and iron sulfate?

My understanding is that even if mangoes hate our dirt, digging a hole and putting good stuff it likes in there will just cause the roots to gird around where that good soil is, and also very negatively affect drainage.

Also, any good sources for manila seeds in case I want to use that as a rootstock later on?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on August 16, 2022, 12:51:03 PM
Upping the difficulty here. Vegas desert.

Unlike avocados, mangoes have been proven to be able to fruit here. It's just really, really rare because barely anyone knows how to grow them in soil, humidity, and weather like ours. High pH, clay soil with rocks and awful drainage. Super hard water. Hot as hell in the summer more often than not. Temps get perilously close to, or occasionally a little under freezing. Every 7 or 8 years we'll get just enough snow to make life miserable for plants.

I have some polyembryonic seeds I started of Lemon Zest, Lemon Meringue, and Coco Cream and my experiment is to grow the cloned shoots without grafting so they have a better chance at being vigorous and more tolerant of our conditions.

Two questions:

When digging the hole, should I mostly stick to native soil? And if so, should I amend it with some organic matter at all, or other things like sand/sulfur? Or just leave it as is and top dress with sulfur and iron sulfate?

My understanding is that even if mangoes hate our dirt, digging a hole and putting good stuff it likes in there will just cause the roots to gird around where that good soil is, and also very negatively affect drainage.

Also, any good sources for manila seeds in case I want to use that as a rootstock later on?

I am not an expert at all, just want to share my own experience.
Native soil is way to go, but if you have clay muddy soil, I will use cactus/palm soil mix to fill up the hole. Mixing the native soil with sand could work, but my trees seem happier with cactus/palm soil mix from home depot. I usually do some prep first. Dig the hole about a week in prior and make sure to loosen up some soil around it so the hole has a good drainage. I've killed some mangoes because the clay soil around the hole was too dense.
Make sure that when you put the mango tree, it is higher than the ground level around it. Some varieties cannot stand wet feet at all. My Son Pari and Dwarf Hawaiian died just after one full day of rain in the winter.
You are smart by starting from seeds. Even Manila rootstocks cannot beat seed growing mango trees in my yard.
My yard received about 12 hours of direct sun in summer, and very dry heat with occassional Santa Ana wind.
I have about 8 mango seedlings from different varieties, and it all grow well. My Coconut Cream on Manila is actually struggling a little.
Some varieties are just a strong grower no matter what rootstock they are on. These are very strong grower on turpentine rootstock in my yard (i don't do much care on my trees):
- Orange Sherbet --> it grew 4 ft in height and 5 ft in width in 2 short years. Very drought tolerant.
- CAC ---> it only grow 2 ft in height but about 6-7 ft width in 2 years from a little stick in 3 gallon pot.
- Super Alphonso --> I just bought the grafted tree about 3 months ago, and it was only 2 ft without any branch. Now it is about 5 ft with 8 branches, I never even tip off the top.
- PPK --> this tree just want to grow and make new branches, it does not even bother to flower. Same, grew about 3 ft height and width in 2 years.
 Varieties that didn't survive in my yard on turpentine rootstocks (they all died in winter after rainy days):
- Venus
- Peach Cobbler
- Son Pari
- Dwarf Hawaiian
- Little Gem
- Triple Sec
 Just a little to add, Manila grown from seeds are also very variable. Some of my Manila rootstocks are strong, some are just weak.
I hope I can help just a litle bit. There are many very experienced mango growers here, and I learn from them.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sc4001992 on August 16, 2022, 08:28:03 PM
I have some additional comments on the seedling from named varieties. I purchased 5 seedling plants that were already growing in 5 gallon pots (maybe 1-2 yrs old) and here's what I noticed:
1. Manila - skinniest plants of all three types that were on sale.
2. Kent - very good rootstock, about 1/2" diameter main trunk.
3. Atkin- best, most vigorous growth, about 1/2"-3/4" diameter main trunk.

I used these plants for grafting some good scionwood varieties.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Future on August 17, 2022, 03:11:39 PM
I was fortunate enough to get a big load of mango seeds from a friend in FL. Here is a surprise varigated Mallika seedling! Anyone else ever get varigated seedlings?
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C/PXL-20220805-025905285.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C)

I lost a piña colada variegation.  Talking to Alex he says variegated seedlings tend to be runts.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 19, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
I was fortunate enough to get a big load of mango seeds from a friend in FL. Here is a surprise varigated Mallika seedling! Anyone else ever get varigated seedlings?
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C/PXL-20220805-025905285.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyZb2w2C)

That is awesome, I would grow it out a bit and then graft it onto a stronger rootstock if you have one. Please keep us updated on this unicorn!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on August 26, 2022, 07:07:31 PM
I’ve planted out several hundred mango seeds over the years. Had a few variegated seedlings pop up but they always grow out of the variegation or die. Here is a recent one. You can see the sun burns right through variegation part on the leaves even under partial shade. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/LhTGvnqx/DEDD0108-DD0-B-4263-898-F-D06-FBD276-F65.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhTGvnqx)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mysteryknight on August 29, 2022, 09:06:16 PM

I have mine planted in the ground now in half shade. I have only noticed a little leaf burn, but that happened after I fertilized with fish emulsion. We shall see. This seedling sends up deep purple initial shoots which I understand to bestow a protective effect on the new growth. Please send more pictures of your variegated seedlings!   
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nZ4Z3j3/PXL-20220830-005745578-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nZ4Z3j3)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: chemist323 on August 30, 2022, 07:41:48 PM
Hi Simon and others, new to the forum but have stalked the forums a bit.

I'm thinking of buying a couple of established Corriente trees from a nursery, both in 30g wooden boxes. 
These trees are big, probably 12-15' tall with branches that I would graft to.
I have been grafting on 5g manila rootstock but looking ahead with drought to consider, wondering if buying a  larger tree and grafting several varieties to them maybe a better option. 
Concern that I have is that these trees are rooted into the ground, not sure if they would die once removed from their spot given that mango roots can be more delicate.  they look healthy otherwise. 
What are your thoughts?


(https://i.postimg.cc/cvGmyVth/5-E5-D42-C3-F115-46-F5-9-AB1-B9-BA8337-FCD1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvGmyVth)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VSDBtvGZ/8-CA75-C9-A-5019-4-DCE-8361-C0-F1632-EE86-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSDBtvGZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yKFWmBD/A9-F9-BC53-986-D-47-FC-828-B-2-B692-AE18208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yKFWmBD)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 30, 2022, 08:19:52 PM
your concern about the drought is an excellent argument in favor of growing from seedling in the ground. Trees grown from small size directly into the ground will develop a more complex and resilient root system than anything which is transplanted at size. I know how impatient we can be, and I've dropped some decent money on big trees for more immediate success, but it really seems seedlings are the way to go
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 30, 2022, 10:37:09 PM
Sounds like good advice to me.

I would spend more time reading, studying mango growth in SoCal, and doing homework rather than opening the wallet (the easiest thing to do).

You can't buy your way to long-term success.  Seedlings are an excellent way to start. Most newbie mango growers mean well but don't understand the difficulties in growing trees in this marginal climate.

Johnny

 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: chemist323 on August 30, 2022, 11:22:49 PM
I understand what you’re saying.  I’m not necessarily new to growing and have learned over the last couple of years from the mangos I’ve lost.  This year, I lost 2 trees on Turp coming out of winter from dieback despite using well draining soil.  I have 2 in ground 5g Manila seedlings that I’ve grafted with Sweet tart, peach cobbler, lemon Zest.  I have about 7 others that I’ve grafted on manila and corriente.  However, it doesn’t seem feasible to plant all those seedlings particularly with water restrictions (plus I have about 25+ other trees in my yard yikes).  That’s where my question arises from.  Appreciate your comments. Just curious if anyone has been able to start and  consolidate with  larger trees.   I’ve seen similar comments on avocado groups recommending smaller trees versus larger trees with concern for rootbound trees. 
[/pre]
Sounds like good advice to me.

I would spend more time reading, studying mango growth in SoCal, and doing homework rather than opening the wallet (the easiest thing to do).

You can't buy your way to long-term success.  Seedlings are an excellent way to start. Most newbie mango growers mean well but don't understand the difficulties in growing trees in this marginal climate.

Johnny

 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 31, 2022, 01:00:03 AM
Well I was doing some work in the yard getting ready for this heat wave so I can share. I dug up a 10’ tall mango seedling from a friend that was moving a house and transplanted it. I dug up a root ball not even the size of a 15 gallon and transplanted it from pure sand to my pure clay yard. I was worried it wasn’t going to take but it lived through the winter. I did this in October, an ideal time to do this. I wouldn’t transplant anything right now.

That next summer I cut the plant all the way back to 3 feet tall and tried some bark grafts one took. This summer I grafted onto the new shoots and 4 took. It has a long way to go before becoming a successful fruiting tree, but it’s starting well and the tree was free. I don’t think I would try it on a $200-$300 dollar tree though


(https://i.postimg.cc/PN1NVYcW/E16-DFD4-F-7054-4-E63-AC77-91771-FB5-EA3-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PN1NVYcW)

I’ve had that tree and seedlings under a pop up greenhouse through the winter and then I never took the fabric off through the summer. It seems the heat doesn’t bother the mango trees too much as long as the light is getting diffused, it has been getting over 100° regularly in there, but with it supposed to hit 111° here on Sunday I’m not wanting to risk it. So greenhouse fabric off and shade cloth up.

When we hit 116° A couple years back and I didn’t have shade cloth over my Valencia Pride it get absolutely roasted.

Speaking of which looks like my VP fruit are coming along well. Looking like late September I should be ready to harvest



(https://i.postimg.cc/MnJ2G3m4/65-F3-C13-C-0-BFF-4-AC1-A4-CD-A7-B9-A055-B3-B8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnJ2G3m4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: chemist323 on August 31, 2022, 02:00:43 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience.  I definitely wouldn’t do anything now given the heat.  Maybe closer to fall as you stated.  I’d probably leave it alone at that point and try grafting next summer.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on August 31, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
I remember the heatwave. I watered mango trees heavily throughout the heat wave and got extra growth flushes for it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on August 31, 2022, 02:24:00 PM
Yeah I’m anticipating giving an extra irrigation run and my trees with a bit of shade pushing their current flushes!

My mango trees are the only thing that gets me happy with the heat
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 02, 2022, 12:46:33 AM
Chemist323, you could purchase the large Corriente tree and multigraft it as a space saver but as soon as you graft it, it will bloom in its first Winter. It will then try to hold fruit which will stunt it’s vegetative growth unless you remove the fruit once the weather is warmer. If you remove the fruit and give it some fertilizer to push vegetative growth in the heat of summer, the grafted branches should grow enough to allow it to hold fruit in a year or two.

I’m assuming you would be planting this tree into the ground? The fruit from my in ground trees have always tasted better than potted plants and in ground trees tend to have less splitting of the fruit. Fruit from potted mango trees can taste very watered down if not given frequent diluted feedings of fertilizer.

I would plant a bunch of random mango seedlings into the ground and let them grow for a year or two to find a vigorous seedling. Mango seedlings don’t require a lot of water and the effort to find a vigorous seedling could save you years in getting a good size fruiting tree.

If you can find some Polyembryonic seeds for varieties like Sweet Tart or E4, you may not even need to graft them if you’re lucky enough to find a clone. Then, all you would need to do is to juice the tree with good fertilizer in order to maximize its growth in the small window period of about 3-4 years or so before it reaches sexual maturity and blooms.

You could then top work several branches from this tree and have a multigrafted tree to save space at which time, you could get rid of your back-up seedlings, if you haven’t grown too attached to them at this point. Having a bunch of seedlings also allow you to practice grafting.

I’ve grown very fond of bud grafting mango trees and have found that they grow vigorously and require significantly less scion material.

Simon

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: chemist323 on September 02, 2022, 06:34:46 PM
Hi Simon, thanks for the reply.

I probably wouldn't graft until later in the summer next year after expected blooms for the scions.  I may experiment with a few earlier but you're right, the scion may try to bloom and i'd remove the fruit to prevent death of scion.  I have been giving them liquid fish fert now to help with vegetative push now so i'd prob continue that next year as well.

The corriente will definitely be placed in ground.  I'll also plant a few manila seedlings, i have a 15g that is ready to go in.  I grew out seeds of LZ, cotton candy, sweet tart, orange sherbet, and a few others.  They are currently in 1g containers, some more vigorous than others.

I haven't tried bud grafting, still trying to perfect/feel comfortable with cleft grafts.  Currently i have about 7 grafted trees on 5g manila that i grafted: maha, coco cream, sunrise, p-22, glenn, and a couple of others.   Maybe i'll try bud grafting one of these days.   

Have you had experience placing a big tree like this in ground? any tips?


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 02, 2022, 09:10:56 PM
Removing circling roots is a must.

If you know or suspect you have gophers, then caging is highly recommended.

I use 0.5" hardware cloth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 02, 2022, 10:52:07 PM
I haven’t purchased nor planted any of the box trees of that size but I have planted some 25-30 gallon trees for friends. I agree with Oolie and if you have gophers, definitely cage it and remove circling roots.

Also, when the tree is removed from the nursery, take note of how much roots were damaged or cut. If a large portion of feeder roots was cut or damaged, you may need to trim your canopy a bit to balance water intake with evaporation.

Grafting next Summer sounds like a good plan. Let the tree get established first and graft next year when you see active growth. Grafting onto vigorous rootstocks will significantly increase your odds of success.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 11, 2022, 06:11:16 PM
So the SoCal heatwave out here kept temps above 100 for two whole weeks. I gave one extra run of irrigation during that time and then I’ve been catching my greywater in a bucket and giving extra water. Now with the warm humid rain I am getting some nice flushes. The heat and sun also made my oldest Valencia Pride mangos on the tree develop some great colors.

I don’t want these to split on the tree, but I want them to be their best. I have been told to pick them once their shoulders fill out and then ripen off tree. I want to make sure I am interpreting that correctly, in the shown photo there is a distinct angle on the top mango. I am interpreting letting the shoulder fill out by that area swelling and rounding out so it is a smooth full curve instead of a flat angle.

Is this the correct way?


(https://i.postimg.cc/bZ0ckGFr/DF531-AA3-D79-A-4586-A5-FE-406-D1-C50-FA96.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZ0ckGFr)

Anybody harvesting already?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 12, 2022, 01:11:28 AM
If you harvested those fruit now, they would probably ripen up but they may not be at their sweetest. Their shoulders appear medium full and the nose has widened up but you can let it hang longer to increase the Brix. Most of California got some rains lately and that can dilute down the sugars. You can try decreasing your watering in hopes of concentrating the flavor and Brix.

In SoCal, gently lifting the fruit in your palm is a great way to test for peak ripeness. If it’s ripe, the fruit will fall off the stem once palmed. This is because palming the fruit causes a slight bend at the stem end and if the sap is drying up, the lack of turgor pressure allows the fruit to fall off the stem more readily.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 12, 2022, 10:02:52 AM
Perfect! Thank you
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 12, 2022, 07:55:33 PM
1. Concern that I have is that these trees are rooted into the ground, not sure if they would die once removed from their spot given that mango roots can be more delicate.  they look healthy otherwise.
What are your thoughts?

2. I have 2 in ground 5g Manila seedlings that I’ve grafted with Sweet tart, peach cobbler, lemon Zest.
1. Yes, the tap root is out of the wooden box and deep in the ground, and so moving the box will damage the tap root, major impact to the tree growing -- slow down significantly --  even if it survives.
2. It seems you grafted on the seedlings that are not big enough, and this will slow them down. I would wait until the seedling has 3 or 4" trunk 10' or higher, then do the grafting.

With a full grown seedling with deep tap root, you can graft many as you want. My 10' seedlings on the east side of the house are doing so well in the heat and I only water once per week or two weeks -- they must have very deep root as I never seen them wilt but sending many new leaves.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 12, 2022, 07:59:41 PM
I dug up a 10’ tall mango seedling from a friend that was moving a house and transplanted it. I dug up a root ball not even the size of a 15 gallon and transplanted it from pure sand to my pure clay yard.
Did it have a deep tap root and did you get all the tap root or broke it? For me it's impossible to get the full tap root out -- just too deep.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 12, 2022, 08:14:16 PM
Speaking of which looks like my VP fruit are coming along well. Looking like late September I should be ready to harvest
From the pic, my guess is this tree was bought grafted in the pot? A California seedling grafted should look stronger and fuller with more branches  than this.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 12, 2022, 08:33:34 PM
Speaking of which looks like my VP fruit are coming along well. Looking like late September I should be ready to harvest
This is a year for vegetative growth. My big 5" trunk PC has only ONE fruit -- not much flowers to begin with. Another big tree with cocktail graft has zero fruit that last years gave many wonderful fruits: ST Maui, Sweet tart, Okrungtong, Edward (I since topped it off and grafted Iman Passand but not took), Mahachanok; the biggest tree (HD rootstock) with LZ and Okrungtong only has 2 LZ and zero Okrung fruits. I thought this year I will have load of LZ, but all the green fruits splited with no seed. The 2 remained fruits are from late blooming in June I believe. Other trees near the house are doing better: some Alphonso the first time, and Maha as every year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on September 12, 2022, 09:09:54 PM
Speaking of which looks like my VP fruit are coming along well. Looking like late September I should be ready to harvest
This is a year for vegetative growth. My big 5" trunk PC has only ONE fruit -- not much flowers to begin with. Another big tree with cocktail graft has zero fruit that last years gave many wonderful fruits: ST Maui, Sweet tart, Okrungtong, Edward (I since topped it off and grafted Iman Passand but not took), Mahachanok; the biggest tree (HD rootstock) with LZ and Okrungtong only has 2 LZ and zero Okrung fruits. I thought this year I will have load of LZ, but all the green fruits splited with no seed. The 2 remained fruits are from late blooming in June I believe. Other trees near the house are doing better: some Alphonso the first time, and Maha as every year.
Sorry for the interuption, is ST Maui considered productive and disease free for you? I am debating to get a ST Maui or another Sugarloaf. Sugarloaf does really well in my yard and it is productive too. I remember you live in Burbank, not too far from my place.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 12, 2022, 09:16:33 PM
When I dig up the large seedling I did not get the taproot and in fact only dug a pretty small rootball. It does not seem to have slowed the tree down any as it may be my most vigorous tree.

And yes my Valencia pride was a 25 gallon tree I bought from Florida before I knew any better and it had a few rough years. It has been starting to bounce back these past few years, but will never become the large tree I hoped it would
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on September 13, 2022, 07:11:30 PM

So the SoCal heatwave out here kept temps above 100 for two whole weeks. I gave one extra run of irrigation during that time and then I’ve been catching my greywater in a bucket and giving extra water. Now with the warm humid rain I am getting some nice flushes. The heat and sun also made my oldest Valencia Pride mangos on the tree develop some great colors.

I don’t want these to split on the tree, but I want them to be their best. I have been told to pick them once their shoulders fill out and then ripen off tree. I want to make sure I am interpreting that correctly, in the shown photo there is a distinct angle on the top mango. I am interpreting letting the shoulder fill out by that area swelling and rounding out so it is a smooth full curve instead of a flat angle.

Is this the correct way?


(https://i.postimg.cc/bZ0ckGFr/DF531-AA3-D79-A-4586-A5-FE-406-D1-C50-FA96.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZ0ckGFr)

Anybody harvesting already?

Hey Victoria Ave,
I've been harvesting the last two weeks: NDM and Valencia pride from this weekend.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Lq48jYVt/Mangos.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lq48jYVt)


Waiting for Sweet Tart

(https://i.postimg.cc/XXB7K09z/Sweet-Tart.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XXB7K09z)


and my first Seacrest / Triple Sec

(https://i.postimg.cc/RWgB5Pct/Seacrest-Triple-Sec.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWgB5Pct)

For me, this years harvest is much smaller than last year.  My Maha crop is skimpy this year - maybe 4 nice size fruit.  Hoping that the opossums and fox squirrels stay away from the remaining mangos.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on September 16, 2022, 07:03:01 PM
Sorry to hear about the skimpy crop, but hopefully those trees put on some good growth to get ready for the next year!

Woke up this morning to find my only colorful VP on the ground. I thought this was coming because I could feel the nose getting soft (probably should have picked it before it fell) it has real firm flesh it the nose is quite soft. It was a trip to feel as the skin changed color it also got so smooth! The smell from the outside is incredible and I think I will eat it tonight. The others on the tree are bigger than this, still green and rough skinned so I think just a random early ripening one


(https://i.postimg.cc/757sBfJs/B242-CEF3-01-B7-4-B71-8-B2-B-AD5-F047-F7-FF8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/757sBfJs)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on September 30, 2022, 03:56:03 AM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 01, 2022, 12:47:13 PM
Took home this big Keitt mango at Seafood City Irvine last night.
The box's label shows this comes from Sinaloa, Mexico. So, they got hot water
treatment or where they "radiated"?
Hope the seeds are still viable, that I will have 4 seedlings coming...
Just an fyi.



(https://i.postimg.cc/DS4FNzDW/909-B5-E18-3437-4967-93-E1-66733-B9171-AF-1-201-a.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DS4FNzDW)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on October 01, 2022, 07:00:48 PM
Neither, Sinaloa is free of Med Fruit fly I believe it's granted a special exception to the treatment rules.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 02, 2022, 01:29:33 AM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Bought Keitt Mango and when I opened  husk already seed was sprouting, looks like there are 2 shoots… So, is this polyembryonic cross pollination? any advise? is this be useful to grow? may be just for fun?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0/Mango-Keitt.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 02, 2022, 01:36:25 AM
Neither, Sinaloa is free of Med Fruit fly I believe it's granted a special exception to the treatment rules.

Good to know that Oolie, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on October 02, 2022, 09:41:02 PM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Bought Keitt Mango and when I opened  husk already seed was sprouting, looks like there are 2 shoots… So, is this polyembryonic cross pollination? any advise? is this be useful to grow? may be just for fun?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0/Mango-Keitt.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0)
Though the parent of Keitt is Poly, Keitt is mono.
They are two sprouts from the same embryo.

Many newer selections are seedlings of Keitt, including M4 which receives high praise. If it turns out to be a dud, you can always graft it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 02, 2022, 10:34:40 PM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Bought Keitt Mango and when I opened  husk already seed was sprouting, looks like there are 2 shoots… So, is this polyembryonic cross pollination? any advise? is this be useful to grow? may be just for fun?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0/Mango-Keitt.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0)
Though the parent of Keitt is Poly, Keitt is mono.
They are two sprouts from the same embryo.

Many newer selections are seedlings of Keitt, including M4 which receives high praise. If it turns out to be a dud, you can always graft it.

really appreciate your advice! will post more pics. really Excited   8) :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Amy K on October 03, 2022, 01:58:51 PM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Bought Keitt Mango and when I opened  husk already seed was sprouting, looks like there are 2 shoots… So, is this polyembryonic cross pollination? any advise? is this be useful to grow? may be just for fun?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0/Mango-Keitt.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0)
Keitt mango i ate had already germinated inside the pod similar to this too. I planted it right the way and forgot to take picture. The flesh was so good too. Sweet, juicy, with little coconut taste toward the skin. It was delicious 🤤
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 04, 2022, 04:17:14 PM
I went to look at the mango trees that Simon and I planted the last few years.  They are starting to grow well now.  Ive been busy with other things and have not done anything for them for over 2 years now.  Just automatic sprinklers.  I did cut the panicles off most of them this winter to let them grow more before fruiting but missed a few. 


(https://i.postimg.cc/v47hhrnL/20221004-124123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v47hhrnL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/V557wbym/20221004-124128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V557wbym)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VJXGTyxt/20221004-124223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJXGTyxt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJ2t6YVD/20221004-124457.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ2t6YVD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcvB5Tyq/20221004-124616.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcvB5Tyq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkbPbrd4/20221004-124837.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkbPbrd4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wR34b1zx/20221004-124922.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wR34b1zx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHyK5S3G/20221004-125518.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHyK5S3G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj25WSJs/20221004-125645.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj25WSJs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3kPhjHgD/20221004-125720.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kPhjHgD)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 04, 2022, 08:36:56 PM
Looking great! What size were they when they went in?

Just gotta give mine more time!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MasonG31 on October 04, 2022, 09:46:39 PM
I went to look at the mango trees that Simon and I planted the last few years.  They are starting to grow well now.  Ive been busy with other things and have not done anything for them for over 2 years now.  Just automatic sprinklers.  I did cut the panicles off most of them this winter to let them grow more before fruiting but missed a few. 


(https://i.postimg.cc/v47hhrnL/20221004-124123.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v47hhrnL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/V557wbym/20221004-124128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V557wbym)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VJXGTyxt/20221004-124223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJXGTyxt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJ2t6YVD/20221004-124457.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJ2t6YVD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcvB5Tyq/20221004-124616.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcvB5Tyq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkbPbrd4/20221004-124837.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkbPbrd4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wR34b1zx/20221004-124922.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wR34b1zx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHyK5S3G/20221004-125518.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHyK5S3G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj25WSJs/20221004-125645.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj25WSJs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3kPhjHgD/20221004-125720.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kPhjHgD)


Beautiful fruit. Congrats.  Are they seedling trees?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 04, 2022, 10:06:30 PM
Hello Mason yes seeds that Simon sourced over the course of several years.  They are not all planted at the same time.  I think we planted seedlings in 2018-2021.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 04, 2022, 10:23:20 PM
It’s good to see those beautiful/healthy mango trees and fruits that were
grown here in SoCal, give me some hope to expect better result to just a few of mine.
Thanks for sharing those photos, Brad!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 05, 2022, 02:14:15 AM
Hi all,
I am new to growing tropical trees... Trying to setup and grow 2 or 3 dwarf Mango varieties. Any good place to buy around SoCal? also looking for suggestions on  Carrie, Mallika and Keitt? (early, mid and late season)  Tasted Keitt and Mallika and liked it.
Any thoughts on Dwarf Hawaiian, Nam Doc Mai and Angie?
Thanks for the Help
Bought Keitt Mango and when I opened  husk already seed was sprouting, looks like there are 2 shoots… So, is this polyembryonic cross pollination? any advise? is this be useful to grow? may be just for fun?

(https://i.postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0/Mango-Keitt.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KkhbHHc0)
Though the parent of Keitt is Poly, Keitt is mono.
They are two sprouts from the same embryo.

Many newer selections are seedlings of Keitt, including M4 which receives high praise. If it turns out to be a dud, you can always graft it.

really appreciate your advice! will post more pics. really Excited   8) :)
Interesting to know M4, a polyembryonic from Keitt. Is that true Poly can bear fruits earlier than mono? If so how early?
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MasonG31 on October 06, 2022, 06:28:48 PM
Hello Mason yes seeds that Simon sourced over the course of several years.  They are not all planted at the same time.  I think we planted seedlings in 2018-2021.

Awesome. Please let us know how the fruit taste.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 07, 2022, 02:47:02 PM
Nice looking grove Brad.  They look like they are just about the right size to start holding a lot of fruit if you let them.  Next year could be a bumper crop.

Just curious, do you have problems with algae build up in your sun exposed PVC lines?  It's a real issue for me with well water, resulting in clogged drip heads.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on October 07, 2022, 03:04:30 PM
Dang Brad those really took off since I last saw them. Congratulations on the success and looking forward to a review soon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 07, 2022, 03:27:24 PM
Hey Jason, you should not have algae unless the water is sitting there all the time.  In the case of a sprinkler that goes on and off once or twice a week, it should dry between uses.  It sounds like your auto valves are leaking slowly and always have a drip at the sprinkler heads maybe? 

I don't ever see algae but I do get clogged emitters all the time.  It's an ongoing battle.  What happens on mine is the end emitters or whichever ones are at the lowest point in that stretch of line are the ones that drain out and have residual water sitting there longer than the others and then they get dirt and hard water deposit calcium buildup and clog. 

I had an epiphany recently how to fix the problem but it's too late to implement since my system is already installed and trees laid out.  The way to fix the problem is have the main feed line going from high point down the hill.  And have the smaller side lines come off not horizontal but going slightly uphill away from the main feed line.  Then put a vacuum break or a electric valve at the bottom of the main feed line.  Then when the cycle is over all the side feeder lines drain back towards the main feeder and go downhill and out the bottom of the big pipe at the bottom of the hill.  All the water and crud get dumped each run.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on October 07, 2022, 03:48:36 PM
Jason, After rereading your question about algae, I see you are asking about inside the PVC not on the emitters.  I have not really had that problem.  Your line really should not have water sitting in it unless there's a U shape spot somewhere that can't drain out.  Even then Im surprised sunlight is really penetrating schedule 40 pvc.  Most of the water should come out of the emitters when the cycle ends.  I have ditched most of the pvc side feeders and gone with half inch poly and only have pvc main feed lines now that go straight downhill. 

There's still some small pvc side feeders in the pics but they are not in use anymore. 

I ditched them just to make it easier to stick stakes in and use different tips on black poly.  Wasn't because of algae. 

Again though, the solution is to get a good drain out of the system each cycle so water and dirt and calcium are not sitting there growing algae or making stalagmites.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 08, 2022, 12:33:24 PM
My mango trees are about 13 years old growing in a cool coastal climate.  Summer highs are usually in the 70’s with just a few weeks in the 80’s and warmest days typically in the fall.

Glenn on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/8fM4yyv6/A44-E0-D9-C-7411-4244-9588-EB08-F47-CAA05.png) (https://postimg.cc/8fM4yyv6)

Nam Doc Mai on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/64JLGdP5/CA8-A1142-DE91-4-D33-B411-BF764-F2-C3991.png) (https://postimg.cc/64JLGdP5)

Fruit Punch year and half old graft

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tybc27kH/7944-F29-A-32-D8-4-AC4-8477-B1-E4339-DFED9.png) (https://postimg.cc/Tybc27kH)

Lemon zest grafted year and a half ago, I don’t remember it blooming

(https://i.postimg.cc/v176Sp2M/DD30-E60-A-7412-4086-8208-D22-DD061-F575.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v176Sp2M)

I grafted Sweet Tart as well and that didn’t bloom this year either.

Janet
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: John B on October 09, 2022, 12:45:20 AM
My mango trees are about 13 years old growing in a cool coastal climate.

Really nice, Janet. Any better growers for the coastal side? Going to set my friend up with a seedling and a 15 gallon tree. Not sure which variety I'll graft onto the larger tree. I have most of those varieties as seedlings, along with a few others. Sweet tart had a great second bloom this year but I only let a few fruit hang this year because I had braches break from the weight (lesson learned).

(https://i.postimg.cc/crPNXsHf/PXL-20221004-165555401-PORTRAIT.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crPNXsHf)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 09, 2022, 10:35:22 AM
Hi John,

I don't have the experience with all the different varieties to make a good recommendation.  I didn't even know about all the new Zill mangoes until a couple years ago when I saw a Jace Mace and Shaymus video talking about them.  I found this forum when I was trying to find more information.

I selected Glenn and Nam Doc Mai originally from the information on the Pine Island Nursery website.  Because of my cool climate, I chose Glenn because they stated it was the best early season and Nam Doc Mai because it could be eaten at the green stage. 

I find it interesting that the experience of most in SoCal has been negative with Florida grafted trees and that the most recommended is Manilla for rootstock.  When I first planted my trees, I also planted several Champagne and Keitt seeds because those fruits were available locally.  The Champagne/ Ataulfo seedlings are not vigorous at all for me, maybe they need more heat.  I have one Keitt seedling that is about 13 years old but it is still pretty small and gets powdery mildew consistently despite being in a sunnier location.  I'm guessing Keitt needs more heat as well since they're growing it commercially in the desert.  I've grafted it so we'll see how it does.

My home garden soil is alkaline, heavy clay.  I have some thoughts about why my Florida trees have done okay for me, but maybe that's too much to get into now.

Janet
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on October 09, 2022, 12:43:42 PM
Is that down in Laguna, Janet? I have read your posts and seems the Fallbrook is a more recent planting?

My GF's parents bought some Home Depot manila and "standard" mangoes which are both blasting off really close to the coast. I wish they'd planted them in ground but are prolifically producing for being in pots right now.

I would guess it's not just the climate, but also your soil that's slowing them down.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 09, 2022, 01:12:34 PM
K-Rimes

Yes, my heavy clay, alkaline soil, in a cool and humid microclimate is the issue and challenging to grow mangoes.  The pictures from above post are of my trees in Laguna Beach on Florida rootstock. 

Most seedlings have probably done poorly because they were planted directly in the ground and got root rot during their first cold, wet winter in the ground.  I’m sure they would do better planted in pots then planted after they have established some more roots and soil is warmer.

My plantings in Fallbrook are only a year and half old.  So much easier to grow in well draining granite soil in full sun with warm summer days.  Way faster growth rate compared to my home garden.

In the above post, I wanted to share that it is possible to grow in more challenging conditions, just takes more time, persistence, and different strategy.

Janet
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 09, 2022, 01:38:05 PM
My experience with mango seeds, some take off and some just never grow with vigor. I give them a year or two to demonstrate any potential, then cull the low vigor seedlings.
I’m curious about your hypothesis why Florida rootstock trees perform alright in coastal conditions.  I, too, have seen this with three different trees planted in two coastal locations. I always attributed it to the heavy sandy soil and warmer winter conditions.  The coastal trees aren’t nearly as precocious as the inland planted Florida rootstock trees. I think the cool inland night temperatures during winter and early spring stress the trees out to the point they won’t stop flowering throughout the growing season.  Once the trees and root system get to a solid size,  they are less affected by this issue. At least that seems to be my observational hypothesis. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on October 09, 2022, 02:01:05 PM
Brad- thanks for info regarding the drip lines.  I definitely have water remaining in the lines after a run cycle.  I will need to rethink how I setup my system. Right now, all my small seedlings are fed by flag drip emitters directly punched into .5” tubing all spread out over my backhill.  I wanted a cheap temporary solution before investing in real irrigation, in case the seedling experiment turned out to be a bust.  If the seedlings survive a couple more winters, I will need a new system to feed sufficient water to over 200 trees with spray emitters.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 09, 2022, 07:54:36 PM
Hi SHV, I’m not just hypothesizing that a mango on turpentine rootstock from Florida can grow okay on the coast.  I currently am growing mango trees 2 blocks from the ocean in Laguna Beach as shown by the pics in my above post.  They are pictures of my fruiting trees planted over 13 years ago. ;D ;D

No doubt they will grow better in warmer climates with better soil.  My trees in Fallbrook are growing way faster with a lot less effort, but I love my mango trees at home and am glad to have them. I think they are beautiful. ;D

Also, to be clear, I agree the best way to grow mango trees in California is to plant seeds and graft when seedlings are mature or allow seedlings to fruit to see what you get.  That is what I’m doing in Fallbrook. 

However, I am also growing trees on Florida rootstock because I want the genetics now and don’t want to wait three years to acquire them.  I’m planting them in my best spots to give them the chance to grow into healthy trees.  If they don’t make it, by then I’ll have backups. 

It’s funny to me that if I had not read all the threads about how bad turpentine rootstock was for California, I wouldn’t have any doubts that they would grow well for me in Fallbrook since I was able to grow them in challenging conditions at home.

I appreciate all the experience and advice Simon and other members in California have shared about growing mangoes.  I’m following their advice and have planted over a hundred seeds.

Janet

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 09, 2022, 09:08:46 PM
Hi Janet,

Good to hear you're having success with your mango trees close to the coast. I am a few more miles inland but we have common challenges in growing mango trees in a marginal climate in SoCal.

Can you please post some wide-angle photos of your 13-year-old mango trees on Turpentine and give a description of the height and width of the trees?

Growth in 2022 was good for me as we had some good summer heat. 2021 was poor as temperatures were cool and below normal. 

Enclosed are a few photos of two of my young trees. My oldest one is Sweet Tart which I grafted in 2016 and is six years of age.

Sweet Tart Produced Poorly this year and LZ had no fruit but good growth. Hoping for production on my LZ from 2023-2026.

The mangos that produced well this year for me were Angie and Guava, Both were delicious but different in the flavor profile. 

Much Thanks and good luck

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/PNhxDHbX/8-U1-A5068-Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-after-Summer-Growth-at-3-30-PM-10-6-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNhxDHbX)
Sweet Tart mango Tree (10-6-2022)




(https://i.postimg.cc/bGkyGVsS/8-U1-A5075-Lemon-Zest-Mango-Tree-after-Summer-Growth-at-3-30-PM-10-6-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGkyGVsS)
Lemon Zest Mango Tree (10-6-22)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 10, 2022, 01:36:27 PM
I wanted to show one other multi-grafted mango tree in my backyard. This is a manila seedling tree I planted in the ground in 2018. I waited two years and in 2020 I started grafting onto it. The tree is now about 10' tall and 6' wide with a good branching structure. I am excited about the rapid growth and fruit production of the Guava Mango I grafted in July 2020.

The first photo shows the "V" Guava cleft graft I did two years ago. That particular limb on the tree is now the strongest on the tree with a 1.5" diameter in just two years at a cooler coastal location. The canopy from this graft now almost takes up to 50% of the mango tree.

The 2nd photo shows more of a wide-angle view of the branching of this young tree. You can also see the blue tape on the R/H side from the Fruit Punch Graft I did this summer.

The 3rd photo shows the Guava Canopy on this tree. It only produced a few fruits but they were excellent and were fully mature by late September.

The 4th photo shows the front of the tree. You can See the Angie graft on the lower right. I also did this graft in 2020 and this year it produced (4) fruit all of which were excellent in the Indian flavor profile. On the far upper left, you can see Raw Honey that I grafted in 2021. This Limb is growing well and I am looking forward to trying the fruit.

The two Cotton Candy grafts I did this year failed so I will try again next year. The fruit Punch graft is growing strong on this tree.

Overall I am satisfied with this multi-grafted mango tree and expect production to pick up as it matures. Currently, I am growing about 25 different varieties of mango at my location and the only way I can try them all is to do multi-grafting on my in-ground trees. With more time I should be able to ascertain the consistency of production and fruit quality but thus far am happy with both Guava and Angie.

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJz4jhqd/8-U1-A5137-Guava-2020-Graft-to-Manila-Seedling-1-Close-Up-10-10-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJz4jhqd)
Guava 2020 Graft to Manila Rootstock

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBCPNnFy/8-U1-A5140-Multi-Grafted-Mango-Tree-1-Lower-Rootstock-10-10-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBCPNnFy)
Multi-Grafted Mango Tree Branching Structure


(https://i.postimg.cc/5XTn0h4B/8-U1-A5141-Guava-Mango-canopy-on-Manila-Seedling-1-10-10-22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XTn0h4B)
Guava Canopy on Manila Rootstock (10-10-2022)


(https://i.postimg.cc/rdqzSmwM/8-U1-A5151-Multi-Grafted-Mango-Tree-1-in-Raised-Bed-10-10-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdqzSmwM)
Multi Grafted Mango Tree Head Shot
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 10, 2022, 03:05:56 PM
Hi Johnny, you’re mango trees look beautiful and look like actual trees compared to my bush like growth.  So exciting that you are trialing so many varieties and they are growing so well for you!  I wish i would have known about some of the experiences of other growers earlier, but just discovered the forum last year.

I can’t get a good wide angle shot of my tree because it’s planted in the corner of my yard surrounded by fejoia, mandarin, pomegranate, and dragonfruit. 

My tree wasn’t staked after the initial planting so it drooped down to the ground and has three smaller trunks.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nMKbJ8z5/5-B23-C0-AA-3-B8-A-47-BB-AB4-D-67-A5-F24-BBABC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMKbJ8z5)

Here’s a pic showing its bush like growth.  Tree is about 7-8 feet tall and 8-9 feet wide.  The size and growth habit is actually perfect for me.  I can easily reach all the branches and leaves to prune and foliar feed.  I wouldn’t be complaining though if it was a vigorous large tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsKgtBVm/22-E5-CD28-808-F-4-F5-B-934-D-FB7-D963-A2249.png) (https://postimg.cc/nsKgtBVm)
Janet
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 10, 2022, 03:58:06 PM
Hey Janet,

The fruit in the bottom photo looks delicious. About the only thing I have left is a few Nam Doc Mai's. Actually, I am in the process of top working my NDM as I find the quit quality mediocre and the tree is constantly flowering most of the year.

Another variety that looks hopeful from a production standpoint is Val-Carrie. My three-year-old Val-Carrie graft produced over 10 fruits this year unfortunately I had to remove them in early summer to force my branching to go more vertical. Some branches were angled down and I try to avoid this with young trees during the first 3-5 years after planting in the ground. This tree has responded well to the tipping I did earlier. (See attached Photo)

This summer I also Successfully grafted Orange Sherbet and Buttercream and the grafts are growing very well. It's hard to see in the photo as the new grafts are towards the back of the tree.

Take Care

Johnny

(https://i.postimg.cc/7bgZMZ95/8-U1-A4945-Val-Carrie-Mallika-in-Raised-Bed-at-10-30-AM-10-6-2022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bgZMZ95)
Val-Carrie/Mallika Multi Grafted Mango Tree (10-6-2022)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 10, 2022, 03:58:19 PM

Overall I am satisfied with this multi-grafted mango tree and expect production to pick up as it matures. Currently, I am growing about 25 different varieties of mango at my location and the only way I can try them all is to do multi-grafting on my in-ground trees.
Johnny

Nice going Johnny!  Love seeing your pretty and healthy multi grafted tree! Yes, it’s  city dwellers problem with limited yard space.   ;)

I am planning to do a top work on one of my tree, it’s manila root stock tree; It’s got multiple varieties on it, but I am not please with them, baring one (Sweet Tart). I understand that the best time to do this on mango is around June-October in SoCal? Which grafting method would you guys/gals recommend, grafting on the water shoots or bark grafting method is better?
I supposed if I elect to do water shoots grafting, I better cut the tree about knee high or so now…no? Someone would like to give some opinion please? Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 10, 2022, 05:55:45 PM
Johnny,

Good the hear about the promise of Val-Carrie. I have a cocktail tree with Valencia pride, Carrie and sweet tart. Was thinking about putting Val-Carrie on because it would be fun to have a side by side comparison of the parents and their offspring.

I am surprised by how vigorous the Carrie scion is growing. It was dominating the tree (was grafted this year and over taking grafts from last year) so I bent the branch down for a few weeks using string and an anchor. It has now opened up the center and brought everything a bit more level canopy. Excited to see how these cocktail trees perform!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JCorte on October 10, 2022, 06:49:22 PM
Johnny, your trees look so healthy!  I think it's great that members are having success and grafting all these varieties.  In a few years, I look forward to hosting some tasting events.

Janet
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 14, 2022, 10:13:34 PM
After reading lots of information and suggestions, it looks like SoCal weather may not treat Florida Grafted mangos gently (already bought Mallika Keitt from FL)… So, thinking about getting few Manila or Kent seedlings to Graft NDM, Keitt and Mallika or others. All Sr. members Can any you please suggest which one to Graft on to what root stock. Or just to go with all “Manila” root stock?
Also, where to get Scions with good flavor and taste  NDM, Keitt and Mallika? (or other choices like Carrie, Pickering …) I am rally open for all suggestions.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 15, 2022, 09:55:32 PM
I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing I have discovered is you have greater success grafting onto a strong thick vigorous branch vs weak lower limbs on an existing mango rootstock or seedling tree.

For example, you have a mango tree in the ground. It has (4-5) branches two of those branches are thick and growing upright. One of the branches is medium size and 1-2 branches are smaller in diameter and are weaker in general and usually lower on the tree. Experience has taught me to remove (Cut off) the lower or weaker branches. More of the energy of the tree is directed on the stronger main branches. Graft on to new sprouts from those stronger branches only.

In the past when I grafted new mango scions onto weaker growth the growth was slower relatively to the rest of the tree. I concluded that most of the energy of the root system was being diverted to the stronger (thicker) mango branches. When I started to specifically graft to the stronger branches I noticed more vigorous growth like the guava graft I did in July 2020 onto a thick branch of the manila seedling tree.

Conclusion:  Remove weak grown (especially on younger mango trees) and focus the energy of the tree on 2-3 of the strongest branches. Just my experience for long term success and strong branching.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 15, 2022, 11:47:17 PM
I forgot to mention this in my last post but one thing I have discovered is you have greater success grafting onto a strong thick vigorous branch vs weak lower limbs on an existing mango rootstock or seedling tree.

Conclusion:  Remove weak grown (especially on younger mango trees) and focus the energy of the tree on 2-3 of the strongest branches. Just my experience for long term success and strong branching.

Johnny
Johnny,

I agree, I also notice that whenever I grafted some scions (not necessarily mango) on a weak/small branch on a mature tree, it develops slow or very slow, many eventually died years later. I will keep this in mind on my future grafts work.
I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your valuable experience!

In the mean time, I went ahead and cut my main thick trunk manila down to about 15”, I read that it’s easier to graft on new green  shoots than to do bark grafting on mango. (On the other hand, on stone fruit trees, I had 6 out of 6 successes  bark grafting them). 
So, I am looking forward to do some multi grafting on the new shoots, this coming Summer I hope…
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on October 16, 2022, 10:41:42 PM
Hey Sam.

In general, if I am going to wack a mango tree and start from scratch I will give the mango tree a buzz cut at 48".  The following year new shoots will come up and I would choose the strongest 3-4 shoots and graft on the desired varieties. If the grafts take I would remove all of the other shoots and let the energy of the tree direct growth toward the new grafts. 

Choose your scions carefully prior to grafting. Place your slower-growing varieties such as Angie, buttercream, Mallika, and Ice cream exct on the southern end of the tree as these are moderate-growing trees and smaller in size. Place the more aggressive growing varieties (larger in size) such as Seacrest, 0-15, Guava, Cac, Valencia Pride, and Lemon Zest exct toward the rear on the north end of the tree.  You don't want the fast-growing varieties to block and slower mango scions grafted previously. Remember the slower-growing mango varieties face the sun on the south side of the tree and the fast-growing mango selections grow on the North Side farthest away from the sun.

Good Luck.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on October 17, 2022, 09:54:20 AM
Good advice Johnny, thanks again!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 21, 2022, 03:25:48 PM
Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS/2614-A4-B9-21-D2-4221-9-CB9-220954-B0-E11-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0/7-A9-A6-FA8-154-A-44-FD-8-B32-9-C320657-B257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s/D890-DF3-D-CB63-4055-8-D54-70-FD4-D764397.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on October 21, 2022, 05:26:06 PM
Keitt is prostrate, falling over consistently, VP is more vigorous and upright, much more well adapted to SoCal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 21, 2022, 10:11:54 PM
Keitt is prostrate, falling over consistently, VP is more vigorous and upright, much more well adapted to SoCal.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on October 22, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS/2614-A4-B9-21-D2-4221-9-CB9-220954-B0-E11-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0/7-A9-A6-FA8-154-A-44-FD-8-B32-9-C320657-B257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s/D890-DF3-D-CB63-4055-8-D54-70-FD4-D764397.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s)

It looks like keiiit leaves I’ve seen, and my Valencia pride occasionally has leaves varying in shape and form.

I would assume it is what it was labeled as until it fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 22, 2022, 02:56:22 PM
Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS/2614-A4-B9-21-D2-4221-9-CB9-220954-B0-E11-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQQRHXwS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0/7-A9-A6-FA8-154-A-44-FD-8-B32-9-C320657-B257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cK5ScYM0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s/D890-DF3-D-CB63-4055-8-D54-70-FD4-D764397.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZvWFx5s)
Thanks for the good News!  :)

It looks like keiiit leaves I’ve seen, and my Valencia pride occasionally has leaves varying in shape and form.

I would assume it is what it was labeled as until it fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 22, 2022, 05:44:53 PM
Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…
Why do you want to plant small grafted tree? As mentioned many time in this thread, the best way in SoCal is to plant a seedling and then graft on it when it is 10ft or larger.

Sorry couldn't help on the Q as I would pull out both Keitt and Valencia -- there are many better varieties to have.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 22, 2022, 11:18:12 PM
Can anyone identify this mango tree a keitt or Valencia pride?
Got this from Emily nursery, listed as keitt but looks like Valencia pride to me…
Why do you want to plant small grafted tree? As mentioned many time in this thread, the best way in SoCal is to plant a seedling and then graft on it when it is 10ft or larger.

Sorry couldn't help on the Q as I would pull out both Keitt and Valencia -- there are many better varieties to have.
Agreed! Bought this before knowing about these excelled suggestions from several knowledgeable patrons…
Anyway, planning to grow this tree in containers until it develops 2+ inch trunk (now It’s around 3ft height) Also, planning to move indoors during our cold nights and long rainy (rarely happening anymore) days in SoCal . Hopefully in 2 years, plant in-ground. Looking for suggestions to grow in containers…
Also, planning to start Sweet Tart seedlings (and  may be Valencia Grafting on Kent)

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on October 24, 2022, 11:22:20 PM
looking for suggestions from experts , having an Ataulfo tree (4+ yr old 7+ ft tall) in a 30 Gal. container… Will this work to do topwork with 2 different variety? Never did anything like that... on the other side don’t want to kill the tree either...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on October 31, 2022, 12:24:38 AM
It is OK to buy grafted trees. Yes the seedlings can grow faster but not always. My grafted lemon zest and grafted orange sherbet trees are beasts. Yes some seedlings (mainly monoembryonic seedlings) are as large but not nearly as branched and certainly have not yet brought the same type of joy as the grafted trees.

My strategy has been to plant seeds next to and surrounding the grafted trees. Originally I was going to inarch graft everything but I got lazy. Some grafted trees as mentioned have done very well. Others (juicy Peach) have been laggards. Orange essence, coconut cream, M4, and Phoenix grow very well too.

Pina colada seems to be slow regardless. However mine was already 3 years old from Florida when I bought it. It's about 5 ft tall but maybe 6 feet wide at this point with so much dense branching that it really looks like 2 or 3 dwarf trees. i would caution everyone to acknowledge that there are multiple paths to success. Yes seedlings are tried and true but you can still have success with turpentine (seems to be delayed in socal-I think more due to leggy growth exposing branches to sunburn, rot of these branches during winter, and subsequent decline).

I'm in orange in a valley between 2 hills and get about 400-500 chill hours per year and still get great growth on the mangos.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on November 01, 2022, 06:56:01 PM
Learning about soil types in SoCal.  Lots of information under " Map Unit Composition" know your area soil Clay, Sand, Ph....
Hope this helps. :)
https://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/gmap/
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on November 01, 2022, 07:33:30 PM
I purchased my house over 30 years ago and knew from day one my native soil was heavy adobe clay. I feel anybody with average intelligence can determine the soil type fairly quickly by digging a hole.

The question is what are you going to do about it? Subtropical fruit trees prefer sandy-loam soil to maximize root growth in SoCal. Most newbie growers do nothing to amend their soil when planting a new tree if it is heavy or clay. If you are lucky and have good soil and good drainage consider yourself ahead of the game in growing sub-tropicals. All you need to do is plant and water. Downey, Pico Rivera, and Alhambra are all examples of areas with great natural soil.

Mango trees are difficult to grow as it is but when you add clay soil to the equation the task just became more challenging.

In my case, I remove one cubic yard of clay soil when planting each tree and replace it with purchased sandy-loam soil. Hole preparation is key if you have heavy soil. At the minimum amend the clay soil with 30% pumice to provide better drainage and root growth when planting a new tree if the native soil does not have good drainage. Most are not willing to do this as human nature dictates growing trees with the least amount of effort. Little effort equates to little results. 

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on November 01, 2022, 08:26:21 PM
Some areas in Southern California in particular will have layers of different sediment types throughout a yard. That said many housing developments are on backfill which could be sourced from a construction project miles away with completely different substrate. That said, I agree to an extent regarding sandy loams, as you get good drainage and excellent root development, but there are significant downsides to consider.
Gophers stay active in tunneling in silty or sandy loam soils long into the summer, with no apparent signs of activity above ground. In areas where clay composes higher percentages of the soil, the soil sets up much harder, also causing the stated issues regarding root penetration.
Additionally, the shallow clay soils particularly on very steep sloped hills can retain significant moisture throughout extended drought conditions. These benefits should not be overlooked, in addition, heavier soils allow nutrients to be retained, where looser soils often allow nutrients to be leached.

Becoming familiar with your particular growing environment should be considered as it will guide your decisions when setting up a grove.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on November 17, 2022, 04:54:14 PM
Hi all,
I have spots on my keitt tree after this rain 🌧️ what’s this…any suggestions?

(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9Z7CVBt/F0456412-DEE4-4181-9-B6-F-2-A98951-E964-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9Z7CVBt)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on November 20, 2022, 06:26:10 PM
Hi all,
I have spots on my keitt tree after this rain 🌧️ what’s this…any suggestions?

Help please did neem oil spray but not helping much....  Any other "orgonic" suggestions ? can sulfur powder / spray help?   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on November 20, 2022, 06:29:52 PM
Hello, how about just leave it alone and let it grow?  Your plants dont always have to look pristine.  Getting a little cold damage this time of year is not a big deal.  It will grow again in 6 months from now. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenerpasteur on December 14, 2022, 09:57:42 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/sQ7qj4D2/20221211-134507.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQ7qj4D2)
I have 3 medium to large size mango. This one is in a greenhouse that's recently multi-grafted: Maha Channok, Brahm Kai Meu, Lemon Zest, Pim Saen Mun.

It's doing really well in a greenhouse. Flushing again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2VQWQb3B/20221031-182154.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VQWQb3B)
This one is in 45 gallon I rescued it recently. It will be a Pickering.


(https://i.postimg.cc/4nTVmQxT/20221117-085958.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4nTVmQxT)


(https://i.postimg.cc/3dFBKbX6/20220909-093251.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dFBKbX6)
Last one is Maha Channok, Keo Savoy, Cat Hoa Loc, Pickering, Sweet Tart.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Barbarian on February 28, 2023, 02:02:54 AM
 So, long before I found this forum I planted a couple grafted mango trees. As many of you have experienced, they’re spending more time flowering than growing, and it’s terribly slow going. What’s done is done, and I’m going to keep them for now. But my nephew just expressed an interest in growing something from seed, so it seems to me we might as well try sprouting some mangoes.

I’m not too heavily invested in this: I don’t really have room for more trees (I’ll keep these in pots for a long while and maybe swap them out for my existing trees if they’re a roaring success), and I’d rather my nephew get to grow a seed from a fruit that he personally ate, so I’ll be doing this with whatever mystery variety Vons is currently stocking.

My question is what do you guys do to sprout mango seeds? The process seems to vary a lot depending on what website I’m looking at. Sorry if that’s been covered here, I checked the first ten pages and didn’t see anything.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on February 28, 2023, 09:38:22 AM
I sprout seeds by removing the husk around the embryo. I then soak a couple paper towels and wring out most the water, leaving the towel just slightly moist. I wrap the embryo in the slightly moist paper towel and put it in two plastic zip lock bags and place on top of something warm. The embryo will generally sprout roots/shoots within 2 weeks depending on how warm it is.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on February 28, 2023, 03:11:38 PM
Has anyone else had issues with seeds molding? Been cleaning the seeds thoroughly and the media to sprout in and that has helped but still getting some black mold on the seeds. I’m germinating a bunch of NDM seeds right now and it’s looking pretty good a few weeks in but I have a few getting significantly moldy.

I hadn’t opened up my greenhouse and checked for over a week. I did before storms last week and saw my big beauty cocktail tree got roasted. Temps inside were getting into the 90s and I hadn’t been running irrigation because all the rain and I’m guessing soil had dried out because it was protected. Irrigated and I’m really hoping she bounces back


(https://i.postimg.cc/9zVWsnCT/13-AF53-C0-3-FD6-40-A8-924-E-CB385-E258-F86.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9zVWsnCT)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on February 28, 2023, 06:50:47 PM
Seed molding happens a lot when germinating, the weak seeds particularly succumb, as well as those irradiated and refrigerated.
That tree looks pretty crispy, but if you do a bark scrape test, you may be pleasantly surprised. Damage up top usually weakens a mango tree, but damage to the roots usually kills them ded.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on March 01, 2023, 10:53:30 AM
Yeah the rootstock is fine and it looks like the scions that got grafted are still good, just might have to push new growth below
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on March 01, 2023, 01:09:23 PM
Hi all,
I am thinking about adding "Kesar mango" (along with Alphonso and Keitt ) can you please provide your experience? Is it a good productive for our SoCal conditions
thank you All :)

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on March 01, 2023, 01:17:52 PM
As those are all monoembryonic types, I would plant a rootstock now and graft it with one of those types after it's three years old.

My Alphonse flowered way too much, and eventually died back to the ground (planted as a number 7 on Turpentine), Keitt is nearly the same, after repeated years of extreme flowering it is nearly back to a stump (planted as a number 15 on Manila).

I haven't planted Kesar yet, but I suspect it will flower similarly, so a rootstock must be fairly well established to continue growing through the 3-4 flowerings a tree will produce each year in socal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on March 02, 2023, 01:42:06 AM
Had some observations on Moringa tree at my place and Brea… the tree grows much faster and healthier just little interior. May be because of the longer warmer/Hot weather. weatherspark.com provides the difference in conditions more on the visual side.
I think, it’s the reason for moringa doing so good just little inland. Maybe it could be true for Mangos too as they love much Warm/Hot conditions.

(https://i.postimg.cc/kD4gdPG0/W.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kD4gdPG0)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on March 02, 2023, 02:32:41 AM
Temps inside were getting into the 90s
Seed mold: someone suggested to soak the seeds in diluted bleach solution first.
Socal has been so cold, so how did you get 90 in the green house? With heater?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on March 02, 2023, 02:41:12 AM
As those are all monoembryonic types, I would plant a rootstock now and graft it with one of those types after it's three years old.

Does it care matching rootstock and scions with mono or poly?

I grafted Kesar and Alphonso on my unknow fruited rootstock; I have been eat Kesar the last few year, and Alphonso last year first time.They both have wonderful aroma but alphonso taste stronger sweeter. I like both. No Keitt for me -- too watery and nothing special. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on March 02, 2023, 02:55:19 AM
As those are all monoembryonic types, I would plant a rootstock now and graft it with one of those types after it's three years old.

Does it care matching rootstock and scions with mono or poly?

I grafted Kesar and Alphonso on my unknow fruited rootstock; I have been eat Kesar the last few year, and Alphonso last year first time.They both have wonderful aroma but alphonso taste stronger sweeter. I like both. No Keitt for me -- too watery and nothing special.
Thanks! how old was your root stock at the time of Grafting?  have a Kent seedling around 1 year, thinking to graft after 2 or 3 yr.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on March 02, 2023, 12:43:55 PM
Temps inside were getting into the 90s
Seed mold: someone suggested to soak the seeds in diluted bleach solution first.
Socal has been so cold, so how did you get 90 in the green house? With heater?

The day I discovered the damage it was 62° out but was 86° in the sealed up greenhouse. The day before it had reached 68° so I assumed it went over 90°. The grafted tree got burnt, and one 3’ sweet tart seedling, and when I lifted that pot it was dry dry. I assume it was that heat and sun intensity and not cold because uncovered mango trees around my yard are not showing the same damage. Luckily the big grafted mango tree is somewhat shading the other mango and avocado seedlings and they didn’t seem affected. Though still thirsty
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on March 02, 2023, 12:48:15 PM
If there was ever any question that we are growing mangos at the edge of the desired zone, this winter has been a cold reminder.  It’s been a long time since the forecast has been so consistently cold with rain, hail, and snow at low elevation.  Last night was mother nature’s climax with the lowest temp my property has recorded in 3 years (31F). Only the strongest will survive this winter. Wishing all you zone pushers the best over the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on March 02, 2023, 06:03:36 PM
As those are all monoembryonic types, I would plant a rootstock now and graft it with one of those types after it's three years old.

Does it care matching rootstock and scions with mono or poly?

I grafted Kesar and Alphonso on my unknow fruited rootstock; I have been eat Kesar the last few year, and Alphonso last year first time.They both have wonderful aroma but alphonso taste stronger sweeter. I like both. No Keitt for me -- too watery and nothing special.

What matters is the desired varieties to plant are all mono types, and therefore must be grafted to get a true-to-type plant.

You haven't had a Keitt picked at maturity, or a late season Keitt. It's a good one if the correct crop is picked correctly.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on March 02, 2023, 06:21:36 PM
If there was ever any question that we are growing mangos at the edge of the desired zone, this winter has been a cold reminder.  It’s been a long time since the forecast has been so consistently cold with rain, hail, and snow at low elevation.  Last night was mother nature’s climax with the lowest temp my property has recorded in 3 years (31F). Only the strongest will survive this winter. Wishing all you zone pushers the best over the coming weeks.

34 here just for comparison.  I dont think theres much damage done.  The worst should be past and spring should be incoming now. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on March 02, 2023, 06:31:05 PM
We had some brutal weather here in SB with it hitting 31f at 8pm at my house (2200'), and staying that way all the way till 8am. I will be going around to friend's yards and seeing how their mangoes faired over the next few weeks.

As for mine, all the seedlings I had died. The two I have at work in town look battered, but not dead. They'll come back.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: chemist323 on March 07, 2023, 04:45:38 PM
Update:
I posted in August 2022 about buying large Corriente trees for grafting in the future. I bought 2 trees and planted them at the end of October, since winters have been mild, short, and dry the last couple of years.  Well, weather was definitely a little different this year. I planted them at least 4inches above grade, added gypsum to hole, and made sure to loosen up roots prior to planting.   They are doing really well despite all the water and cold temps (zone 10b) with surprisingly no damage to leaves at all. They are now flowering and hoping to graft to them in summer time. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/75yG6cqk/6-AAF56-CA-43-B6-427-D-8-C4-D-3452-C50-B1-A7-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/75yG6cqk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kBSR793s/BA674-B14-F696-4830-8456-13-BFEF685-CE9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBSR793s)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xrw5kWsq/CD5-C7-A9-F-7-D91-4-D35-8727-95279-C87-D4-D0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xrw5kWsq)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on March 27, 2023, 09:28:09 PM
  They are doing really well despite all the water and cold temps (zone 10b) with surprisingly no damage to leaves at all. They are now flowering and hoping to graft to them in summer time. 

Direct hot sun in summer can be very bad for the young trees, so be warned. Protect the bark.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on May 07, 2023, 02:55:49 PM

I’ve grown very fond of bud grafting mango trees and have found that they grow vigorously and require significantly less scion material.

Simon

Hi Simon, this thread keeps providing super useful info not just for you guys living in SoCal but for anyone living in Mediterranean-type climates. Almost everything you comment on here is applicable to my area. I was wondering what particular type of bud grafting are you using and if there are any particulars (season, temps, rootstock characteristics...) worth keeping in mind. I often use chip and inverted T on citrus, Prunus and figs but on mango I have only used once, I did a couple of bud grafting (chip) years ago from a Maha scion and one took and healed particularly well (is an inground tree now). I never tried again but I'd like to give it a try this season since I plan to graft some material particularly hard to get here.

Jose
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on May 10, 2023, 08:40:11 PM
Planning moving to Inland empire in the next year or so. May be Near one of the places (Chino hills, Chino, corona or Riverside). How challenging to grow tropical trees in IE? Mostly like to grow Mango and Avocados... Can topical trees mange winter there? Any specific varieties do better then others? Appreciate your suggestions. 
Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on May 11, 2023, 02:21:54 AM
Hey Mike, I live in downtown Riverside. Despite my experiences there are tons of avocado trees here, and I could take you on a tour of mature mango trees.

That said, many of those avocados are grafted and all of the mangos are seedlings. Your best bet is going to be an ungrafted seedling mango. My espada, lemon meringue, Corriente, and Manila seedlings are pushing out plenty of new growth right now while my grafts are struggling with the first of what is usually three blooms before we get hot enough to start growing.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on May 12, 2023, 02:16:09 AM
Hey Mike, I live in downtown Riverside. Despite my experiences there are tons of avocado trees here, and I could take you on a tour of mature mango trees.

That said, many of those avocados are grafted and all of the mangos are seedlings. Your best bet is going to be an ungrafted seedling mango. My espada, lemon meringue, Corriente, and Manila seedlings are pushing out plenty of new growth right now while my grafts are struggling with the first of what is usually three blooms before we get hot enough to start growing.
Thank you for your valuable response! Looking to grow Hass, Reed,Gwen, Sharwil and pinkerton. Also, having Alphonso Mango, and it did not bloom at all... but pushing out new growth.  other keitt bloomed lot and just starting to push new growth...  Trying to get seedling of ST and (Lemon meringue or Lemon Zest) or other poly seedlings like Honey Kiss....
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on May 14, 2023, 12:36:22 PM
Here are some of the mango trees from my friend's house. He has over 40 varieties grafted on turpentine and planted in the ground from 15 to 45 plus gallon. He lives about a mile down the hill from my place. He's very successful with growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock in California. Growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock can be done in southern California. Unlike him, I don't have the patience and can only grow seedlings. I also a bunch of them on my plot. We live in the Redlands area. Enjoy.


(https://i.postimg.cc/PPL4X2k0/1-ED1-A902-D15-A-452-B-AD40-1-AE811-CA7-D91remote6d6c2f44967044ab531232c1e62c8fd571c5f774-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPL4X2k0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/p9PzFBgW/2-C7-EE5-D9-7-F7-D-406-A-AFB8-264397-B85384remote0b46da73074b1112b112bc10fab50847e573b4df-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9PzFBgW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NLn6zmrD/7974-CBEA-BE70-42-A9-A9-DC-19-B4-E1-E716-F7remote18cfb9c2c088d6b51f5d12275c97da8918a5513f-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NLn6zmrD)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on May 14, 2023, 12:38:21 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rjM0f3V/8-A6-DEB08-BF9-B-44-D6-8059-6-B160-F54-CBCCremote8dc02a946e1ae6bc1c1c1444716fcdfc04d6eb47-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rjM0f3V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KRrYMyFT/9699-F23-B-97-EB-40-C4-82-D3-17681-F0581-D2remotea9573e0139a734f37f75ffbe4834d08b7a65be2b-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRrYMyFT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pppxpprf/C09-EA93-F-ABEB-438-C-BC72-364-A45-FC80-DEremote6e4484febeefaf53ccd75b710ac0f30b5d0ac2d4-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pppxpprf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LgSp9nJb/CB906-DDE-7496-454-A-93-C5-8-DB0-EEC76-E58remote9ebd3b7d723c6d3c12551a362870c11538c27b8f-1-original.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgSp9nJb)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on May 15, 2023, 12:21:09 PM
Here are some of the mango trees from my friend's house. He has over 40 varieties grafted on turpentine and planted in the ground from 15 to 45 plus gallon. He lives about a mile down the hill from my place. He's very successful with growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock in California. Growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock can be done in southern California. Unlike him, I don't have the patience and can only grow seedlings. I also a bunch of them on my plot. We live in the Redlands area. Enjoy.

Awesome!!!  :) Yes! I think, inland is better for Mango trees than costal areas. As costal areas will not pickup hot weather until July. Whereas inland picks up hot by mid-April.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on May 15, 2023, 01:08:10 PM
Man I feel better about my 7’ tall ugly Valencia pride on turpentine after seeing that. It’s a shame how stunted grafted trees get with the constant flower cycle. I got the Valencia pride hoping for the vigorous 20’ monsters I read about on the internet before I knew any better haha
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on May 16, 2023, 11:50:02 AM
Definitely thanks to Simon and everyone that started this thread and kept it going.  This is one tree of 5 of my top working project on some of my mature mango trees. The rootstalk is ataulfo. The tree is maybe 20 years old. This tree so far has over a dozen grafted varieties, all new from last year.  I also have several smaller trees.  At the moment I have over 50 varieties altogether. I intend to hopefully and luckily try to add new varieties every year. It is difficult as locally there is not much source of scions available like in Florida. I get an almost perfect take on local source than ship ones and they could get expensive with all the grafted failures. I initially never started out with this intention. Ate mangos all my life. Always preferred them green. I had different southeast asian ones. I liked the ripe ones but never really wow by any like say an cherimoya, atemoya, lychee, mangosteen. That was not until about 2 years ago when I was gifted my first zill mango,  Peach Cobbler, wow. Now a few years later I find my myself collecting mangos ahaha.


(https://i.postimg.cc/vgVZ2nd7/Screenshot-20230516-083308-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgVZ2nd7)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on May 17, 2023, 12:01:00 PM
Love to see it!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 17, 2023, 08:50:06 PM

I’ve grown very fond of bud grafting mango trees and have found that they grow vigorously and require significantly less scion material.

Simon

Hi Simon, this thread keeps providing super useful info not just for you guys living in SoCal but for anyone living in Mediterranean-type climates. Almost everything you comment on here is applicable to my area. I was wondering what particular type of bud grafting are you using and if there are any particulars (season, temps, rootstock characteristics...) worth keeping in mind. I often use chip and inverted T on citrus, Prunus and figs but on mango I have only used once, I did a couple of bud grafting (chip) years ago from a Maha scion and one took and healed particularly well (is an inground tree now). I never tried again but I'd like to give it a try this season since I plan to graft some material particularly hard to get here.

Jose

Hey Jose, I use chip budding for my Mangos. This video is for figs but it the same technique I use for bud grafting my mango trees. It’s best to perform this type of graft during your active growing season when temperatures are above the threshold for flowering. For Southern California, this would be around June through August. If you graft too late, the bud can push blooms and it can take longer for the graft to take so your percentage of successful grafts will be lower.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on May 17, 2023, 09:28:54 PM
Here are some of the mango trees from my friend's house. He has over 40 varieties grafted on turpentine and planted in the ground from 15 to 45 plus gallon. He lives about a mile down the hill from my place. He's very successful with growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock in California. Growing mangoes on turpentine rootstock can be done in southern California. Unlike him, I don't have the patience and can only grow seedlings. I also a bunch of them on my plot. We live in the Redlands area. Enjoy.


I'm sorry but he made the mistake of growing turpentine grafted trees. All of them have skinny trunk and lanky. Other socal root stock would have thick trunk and a full body. I made the same mistake before, and now all my trees are HD rootstock or from other seedlings.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 17, 2023, 11:39:01 PM
Planning moving to Inland empire in the next year or so. May be Near one of the places (Chino hills, Chino, corona or Riverside). How challenging to grow tropical trees in IE? Mostly like to grow Mango and Avocados... Can topical trees mange winter there? Any specific varieties do better then others? Appreciate your suggestions. 
Thanks,
Mike

Mike, it depends on your specific climate/microclimate. If you have neighbors with Mangos or Avocados, that would be a great sign that it’s possible. Larger trees may withstand cold better than smaller trees. You could also try growing out some seedlings for rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on May 18, 2023, 12:55:09 AM

Mike, it depends on your specific climate/microclimate. If you have neighbors with Mangos or Avocados, that would be a great sign that it’s possible. Larger trees may withstand cold better than smaller trees. You could also try growing out some seedlings for rootstocks.

Simon

Thanks Simon,
Yes! having a kent and alphonso rootstock planning to add HD manila too.  growing in 15 Gal. Container.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on May 18, 2023, 07:49:54 AM

I’ve grown very fond of bud grafting mango trees and have found that they grow vigorously and require significantly less scion material.

Simon

Hi Simon, this thread keeps providing super useful info not just for you guys living in SoCal but for anyone living in Mediterranean-type climates. Almost everything you comment on here is applicable to my area. I was wondering what particular type of bud grafting are you using and if there are any particulars (season, temps, rootstock characteristics...) worth keeping in mind. I often use chip and inverted T on citrus, Prunus and figs but on mango I have only used once, I did a couple of bud grafting (chip) years ago from a Maha scion and one took and healed particularly well (is an inground tree now). I never tried again but I'd like to give it a try this season since I plan to graft some material particularly hard to get here.

Jose

Hey Jose, I use chip budding for my Mangos. This video is for figs but it the same technique I use for bud grafting my mango trees.
Simon

Thanks for the info! I know chip budding for figs but maybe some people would benefit from watching the video, I think you forgot to put the link  :D. I'll definitely give it a try with mangos this summer, whenever it starts (still 3 weeks ahead with fresh temps  ::)).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 20, 2023, 02:16:46 PM
Thanks for the heads up about the link! Here it is below

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvz_7xcWQ3Y&pp=ygUQQ2hpcCBidWRkaW5nIGZpZw%3D%3D

I also wanted to mention that JSacadura has excellent, excellent videos about grafting so I highly recommend watching and subscribing to his channel.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 20, 2023, 02:31:03 PM
I haven’t been grafting as much mangos lately but here’s a few bud grafts I did late last year around September-October which I don’t recommend because it is too late in the season. Some of the buds didn’t push till last month and some pushed blooms immediately. Stick to the May-August grafting for best success in SoCal as this is our primary vegetative growing season.

This thread is getting very long so I want to reiterate how important it is for us to fertilize and push growth during our short vegetative season here in SoCal.

Also, one of the main issues with grafted trees is that the flowering caused by the grafting of mature scions is what causes the major issues such as droopiness which leads to horizontal exposure of cambium to full sunlight which causes sunburns which leads to wounds which can get infected. The grafting of mature scions also significantly slows growth because up to 8 months out of the year will be spent flowering and holding fruit.

This is why I recommend planting seedlings where you will typically get 3 years of vegetative growth before flowering and if you multiple rootstock a seedling and grow a single trunk tree without grafting it with mature scions, you can get a large rootstock tree with great scaffold branches in several years.

Alternatively, you can spend about $1000+ on a large potted mango tree which you can plant into the ground.


(https://i.postimg.cc/CdK95qXp/IMG-0563.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdK95qXp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4m7MbTX8/IMG-0564.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4m7MbTX8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/18Dj2cnw/IMG-0565.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18Dj2cnw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LqRbpYL7/IMG-0567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqRbpYL7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ty9HYdcP/IMG-0568.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ty9HYdcP)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on May 20, 2023, 04:05:10 PM
Nice looking grafts! Another advantage of this technique is that it heals really well, to the point that is not easy to distinguish the grafting union after a short period of time. I don't know how is the rate of takes in comparison with cleft and veneer grafts in mangoes though. In figs is pretty good but it depends mainly on two things in my experience: the cv (some seem faster to push than others, and not always it seems related to the vigor of the cv) and most importantly, the vigor of the branch where we place the chip(s). On suckers and dominant branches, the percentage of the quick growth of the chips is always higher than in secondary/weaker branches (and the % of takes as well). This is for figs, as I said, but probably the same goes for mangoes.

The videos of Jaime are a must for people that are starting to graft, really good stuff.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Tropic5oh on May 21, 2023, 04:58:56 AM
Thanks for the heads up about the link! Here it is below

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fvz_7xcWQ3Y&pp=ygUQQ2hpcCBidWRkaW5nIGZpZw%3D%3D

I also wanted to mention that JSacadura has excellent, excellent videos about grafting so I highly recommend watching and subscribing to his channel.

Simon

Wow, great video!! This gave me some ideas to spice up a large brown Turkey Fig in the yard!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 21, 2023, 03:08:41 PM
My percentages for bud grafts are about the same as for cleft, veneer and other types of grafts. In this case, I did about 8-10 grafts and they all took.

Only this one graft pushed in Winter when it was hailing and it died back but the bud graft is still green so it could push again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWFsD9Qn/IMG-0566.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWFsD9Qn)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on May 21, 2023, 07:25:48 PM
My percentages for bud grafts are about the same as for cleft, veneer and other types of grafts. In this case, I did about 8-10 grafts and they all took.

Only this one graft pushed in Winter when it was hailing and it died back but the bud graft is still green so it could push again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWFsD9Qn/IMG-0566.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWFsD9Qn)

Simon

Well, those are relevant data, the same percentage as for cleft grafts is an argument clearly in favor of the bud graft when we don't have much budwood. In addition, chip graft allows us to place two chips on the same branch, doubling the chances of success in a particular spot, without damaging the rootstock (another plus). I don't recommend more than 2 per branch though, and one might be enough once you control this technique (which is easy), especially if the branch receiving the chips is dominant/vigorous. Another thing to take into consideration is that chips, whenever possible, should be on the upper side of the branch, so the weight of the new cv as it grows doesn't pull down from the union (it can break as the tree starts to produce). Definitely encouraging data. Thanks, Simon.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Victoria Ave on May 22, 2023, 12:26:01 PM
Thanks for that link and info Simon. Just bud grafted some fuerte avocado I found in Bakersfield onto a seedling I have. It looks good and I love how clean the graft is. Excited to try it on my mangos! I have a PPK seedling that is growing really strong. I will try bud grafting that onto my mature rootstock tree and maybe get a few years of solid vegetative growth then some fruit
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on May 23, 2023, 01:15:15 AM
I learned that bud graft or veneer graft is not a good choice for some varieties, which grow faster when cleft graft was used.

 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 23, 2023, 02:55:14 PM
Hey Sapote, do you have any pictures or data? I’m just curious. My Bud grafts have grown really well and I don’t see why bud grafts would grow slower for certain varieties. Are you sure it’s not because the bud grafts you did had a poor graft union? What type of bud graft did you use?

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 05, 2023, 01:19:33 AM
can haden mango be a good root stock for SoCal? like to topwork after 5 years or so... I think it's a vigorous growing tree, but not sure in Socal. :-\
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 05, 2023, 10:24:58 PM
I used Haden as rootstock and it grew fine for me but every location can give different results because your microclimate and soil can be different. Haden, Tommy Atkins, and especially Kent did well for me as rootstocks. I would recommend planting as many different types of mango seeds as you can get your hand on and you’ll eventually find one that grows vigorously for you.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 07, 2023, 02:12:29 AM
I used Haden as rootstock and it grew fine for me but every location can give different results because your microclimate and soil can be different. Haden, Tommy Atkins, and especially Kent did well for me as rootstocks. I would recommend planting as many different types of mango seeds as you can get your hand on and you’ll eventually find one that grows vigorously for you.

Simon
Thank you Simon,
Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 08, 2023, 03:56:14 AM
Picked up Alphonso mango shipped from India from Indian store. Beautiful colored mangoes Excellent tasting may be little fibers.
Thinking about growing them. Anyone like to grow? it won’t be an Alphonso, just  to try and may be to top work later.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mh38b5Nn/IMG-5158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mh38b5Nn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rDH9nXMD/IMG-5159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rDH9nXMD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJr92LHD/IMG-5160.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJr92LHD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqS438tZ/IMG-5161.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqS438tZ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 10, 2023, 12:41:36 PM
If you mean the seeds, I don't think they will grow.

I've grown the tree and it's a vigorous mess.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Malhar on June 10, 2023, 12:56:21 PM
Picked up Alphonso mango shipped from India from Indian store. Beautiful colored mangoes Excellent tasting may be little fibers.
Thinking about growing them. Anyone like to grow? it won’t be an Alphonso, just  to try and may be to top work later.

Usually these mangoes are irradiated and seeds don't sprout!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 10, 2023, 03:42:46 PM
I agree with Oolie, it can grow vigorously but in my yard, it was very prone to fungal diseases like Powdery Mildew. It would set heavy blooms but only produce a few fruit. Some years, I got nothing. You will need good air circulation or a good spray regiment if you want to grow Alphonso. You may want to consider Angie, Carrie, ValCarrie although these have a different flavor profile. Kesar performs better than Alphonso when I was growing them.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 11, 2023, 12:44:08 PM
If you mean the seeds, I don't think they will grow.

I've grown the tree and it's a vigorous mess.
Yes! Trying to grow the seeds. It just generated root, let’s see  :-\
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 18, 2023, 03:51:42 PM
Can hot water treated mango seeds of Kent /haden /manila from Mexico grow?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 18, 2023, 08:16:13 PM
Can hot water treated mango seeds of Kent /haden /manila from Mexico grow?

Yes, but you can also find non hot water treated from Mexico, and they grow well too.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on June 25, 2023, 01:39:30 AM
Yes, but you can also find non hot water treated from Mexico, and they grow well too.
Where can you find it? All stores around OC area have only Hot Water Treated Kents.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 25, 2023, 12:38:10 PM
In the past Sinaloa was granted an exemption due to being free of the fruit fly.

You'd have to check around and look at the boxes.

Looks like it's not all of Sinaloa, just Los Mochis which experiences a later season than the rest of the region.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on July 16, 2023, 11:17:32 PM
can anyone suggest good fertilizer for mango trees?
all have diffent NPK ratio and sulfur.  For example Arizona's Best citrus have 12% sulfur and others have 1-3% most of socal soil ph is 7+ and  fertilizer with sulfer good? or adding separately is good?
Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Elijah on July 17, 2023, 12:16:10 PM
Can hot water treated mango seeds of Kent /haden /manila from Mexico grow?

I bought Ataulfo and no name (red and green color), usual store mangoes ( is it Haden?) from a Mexican store and both of them sprouted. I put them into pots and an Ataulfo is putting out leaves.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on July 17, 2023, 04:02:38 PM
can anyone suggest good fertilizer for mango trees?
all have diffent NPK ratio and sulfur.  For example Arizona's Best citrus have 12% sulfur and others have 1-3% most of socal soil ph is 7+ and  fertilizer with sulfer good? or adding separately is good?
Thanks,
Mike

The best answer is it depends. If you have heavier soil you will need to add less N and K, and if you have lighter soil you will need to add more. Lighter in the sense that it drains more easily/ holds moisture less.

Being that the trees are being grown in an arid clime, and likely on municipal water sources, the pH is going to climb at some point, and the easiest way to address this is with sulfur. In this case elemental sulfur is the usual choice, as when water is added it begins to dissolve and convert into the highly acidic sulfuric acid, which helps to lower the pH of the water and help balance the pH of the soil. The ultimate goal is to keep the soil pH below the high 8s in order to keep the micronutrients soluble and ready for roots to absorb. If the pH climbs, you will see interveinal cholorosis, which is a common condition, and somewhat detrimental for mangoes. The issue with mangoes in dryer areas like the west is that they produce very few vegetal flushes per year, and those leaves last for up to three years, so having poorly formed leaves which will never improve over time is a huge detriment. If you want pictures, check the mango diseases thread, there's usually a few pics within a page or two.

You will find N and K to be the Macronutrients required to sustain the trees, and Ca will be necessary once fruiting begins, but you may start adding it early, the solubility is poor, so it sticks around. The best form is gypsum, which is readily available, and has a balanced pH which will not worsen the condition of the soil (for micronutrient uptake).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on July 17, 2023, 10:31:33 PM
Can hot water treated mango seeds of Kent /haden /manila from Mexico grow?

I bought Ataulfo and no name (red and green color), usual store mangoes ( is it Haden?) from a Mexican store and both of them sprouted. I put them into pots and an Ataulfo is putting out leaves.
got 3 Kent plants from hot water treated. Not all sprouted. May be I will try to grow few Ataulfo/Manila. Also heard Tommy grows well in SoCal. Trying to grow may be 10 total.

(https://i.postimg.cc/4Yy7Y2B4/IMG-5252.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Yy7Y2B4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on July 17, 2023, 10:33:06 PM
can anyone suggest good fertilizer for mango trees?
all have diffent NPK ratio and sulfur.  For example Arizona's Best citrus have 12% sulfur and others have 1-3% most of socal soil ph is 7+ and  fertilizer with sulfer good? or adding separately is good?
Thanks,
Mike

The best answer is it depends. If you have heavier soil you will need to add less N and K, and if you have lighter soil you will need to add more. Lighter in the sense that it drains more easily/ holds moisture less.

Being that the trees are being grown in an arid clime, and likely on municipal water sources, the pH is going to climb at some point, and the easiest way to address this is with sulfur. In this case elemental sulfur is the usual choice, as when water is added it begins to dissolve and convert into the highly acidic sulfuric acid, which helps to lower the pH of the water and help balance the pH of the soil. The ultimate goal is to keep the soil pH below the high 8s in order to keep the micronutrients soluble and ready for roots to absorb. If the pH climbs, you will see interveinal cholorosis, which is a common condition, and somewhat detrimental for mangoes. The issue with mangoes in dryer areas like the west is that they produce very few vegetal flushes per year, and those leaves last for up to three years, so having poorly formed leaves which will never improve over time is a huge detriment. If you want pictures, check the mango diseases thread, there's usually a few pics within a page or two.

You will find N and K to be the Macronutrients required to sustain the trees, and Ca will be necessary once fruiting begins, but you may start adding it early, the solubility is poor, so it sticks around. The best form is gypsum, which is readily available, and has a balanced pH which will not worsen the condition of the soil (for micronutrient uptake).

Thank you 🙏🏻 for your reply and suggestions
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on August 03, 2023, 05:31:14 PM
Disinfecting mango seeds...
Quiet recently when trying to sprout Mango seeds, Stuck with mold/fungus issues, it spreads from one seed to others… For vegetable seeds, normally used Hydrogen peroxide to soak for about 15 min, will it help Mango too? I was told Bleach can help. (like 2% bleach)  Did anyone used bleach? Any other better process?
Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on August 03, 2023, 06:55:52 PM
Disinfecting mango seeds...
Quiet recently when trying to sprout Mango seeds, Stuck with mold/fungus issues, it spreads from one seed to others… For vegetable seeds, normally used Hydrogen peroxide to soak for about 15 min, will it help Mango too? I was told Bleach can help.  Did anyone used bleach? Any other better process?
Mike

I've never had that issue. I use a steak knife on the fuzzy side of the seed pod, saw till I get a good size crack, use my thumbnails to open, rinse the seed off and put it sideways in soil - I don't think I've ever failed to germinate a mango using this method.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: love_Tropic on August 03, 2023, 11:37:03 PM
Disinfecting mango seeds...
Quiet recently when trying to sprout Mango seeds, Stuck with mold/fungus issues, it spreads from one seed to others… For vegetable seeds, normally used Hydrogen peroxide to soak for about 15 min, will it help Mango too? I was told Bleach can help.  Did anyone used bleach? Any other better process?
Mike

I've never had that issue. I use a steak knife on the fuzzy side of the seed pod, saw till I get a good size crack, use my thumbnails to open, rinse the seed off and put it sideways in soil - I don't think I've ever failed to germinate a mango using this method.
for me too it worked with all "hot water treated mango" from mexico, unfortunately the LZ from FL had mold and it spread to other seeds...  :'( :'( :'(  may be I handled the seeds without sanitizing my hand during wetting paper towel...  :-\
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CapnKirk on September 23, 2023, 09:40:33 PM
I live in Thousand Oaks, California. By keeping my Kent mango seedling warm during winters by keeping it overnight in the garage, later a plastic bag with 100W incandescent bulb, & even later a large wooden structure with plastic sides & winter warming power source. I started the seed in a cup of water when my son was born 36 years ago, and now the tree is 25 feet tall or so and growing out of the top & sides of its 2-story wooden structure. I had also placed plastic bottles full of water to keep the soil warm around the tree. The base diameter is around 18 inches now, and we do get nice fruit from it. I stopped having to keep it warm during winters around 5 years ago. Photo is looking up through roof at growing mango, plus mangos on a branch of the tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/pyRWstKd/Mangos-On-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyRWstKd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V/Mango-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangoba on September 26, 2023, 08:44:09 PM
I live in Thousand Oaks, California. By keeping my Kent mango seedling warm during winters by keeping it overnight in the garage, later a plastic bag with 100W incandescent bulb, & even later a large wooden structure with plastic sides & winter warming power source. I started the seed in a cup of water when my son was born 36 years ago, and now the tree is 25 feet tall or so and growing out of the top & sides of its 2-story wooden structure. I had also placed plastic bottles full of water to keep the soil warm around the tree. The base diameter is around 18 inches now, and we do get nice fruit from it. I stopped having to keep it warm during winters around 5 years ago. Photo is looking up through roof at growing mango, plus mangos on a branch of the tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/pyRWstKd/Mangos-On-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyRWstKd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V/Mango-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V)

Wonderful, how does it taste?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ryanscion on October 17, 2023, 02:17:43 PM
My Coconut Cream mango is very close to being ready maybe I will pick within the next week.I let this tree hold fruit back in 2021 and it was delicious. I gave it a rest year in 2022 to allow for more vegetative growth and resumed fruiting this year.

I look for the following characteristics to let me know it’s ready: brown stem, lenticels dark and visible, smooth skin, color change from green to yellow, and presence of sugar beads.


(https://i.postimg.cc/XBB3pvfb/IMG-8668.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBB3pvfb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CzDS0zMC/IMG-8671.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzDS0zMC)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Pouteria_fan on October 19, 2023, 12:55:07 AM
If anyone wants cheap, cheap, cheap mango trees in the Inland Empire of SoCal....

Check out the going out of business sale at the Santa Ana Nursery in Bloomington, CA.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/santa-ana-nursery-bloomington

Call them ahead of time to check.

It's a small mom and pop style operation, and had 30+ mango trees in 5 gallon and 15 gallon containers when I went last week.
The deal is in the price -- the 5 gallons were $15; and the 15 gallons were only $45!!!

They told me they had criollo, corriente, kent...not entirely sure on the accuracy of the varieties but was stoked to find so many, for so cheap.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Alippincott on October 19, 2023, 10:46:23 AM
I live in Thousand Oaks, California. By keeping my Kent mango seedling warm during winters by keeping it overnight in the garage, later a plastic bag with 100W incandescent bulb, & even later a large wooden structure with plastic sides & winter warming power source. I started the seed in a cup of water when my son was born 36 years ago, and now the tree is 25 feet tall or so and growing out of the top & sides of its 2-story wooden structure. I had also placed plastic bottles full of water to keep the soil warm around the tree. The base diameter is around 18 inches now, and we do get nice fruit from it. I stopped having to keep it warm during winters around 5 years ago. Photo is looking up through roof at growing mango, plus mangos on a branch of the tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/pyRWstKd/Mangos-On-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyRWstKd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V/Mango-Branch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhtFJ49V)

Wow I love your mango tree house. I live in Moorpark and planted a bunch of seeds. The weather records show it hardly gets below 40 here. I hope they live as long as yours! I don't know if I will be as dedicated during the winters.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on January 31, 2024, 01:25:40 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/zykCf7JB/Screen-Shot-2024-01-31-at-10-16-55-AM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zykCf7JB)


Somehow my boss neglected to mention to me he has a killer mango tree here in Goleta. What a beast! He just dropped off a mango with me today. He said he never waters it and doesn't spray.

Here's the fruit:

(https://i.postimg.cc/VSnd6L9F/Screen-Shot-2024-01-31-at-10-25-07-AM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSnd6L9F)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on January 31, 2024, 10:44:33 PM
Super late season fruit and no red blush. I'm interested if it's any good.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on February 01, 2024, 10:05:11 AM
Does any other variety get that late in SoCal? Impressive  :o
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on February 01, 2024, 03:02:24 PM
Super late season fruit and no red blush. I'm interested if it's any good.

I'll report back! Apparently fibrous. He says I can take scion whenever.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Ivy on March 12, 2024, 01:51:58 AM

I am new to growing mango .  I am in zone 10a. I have a 7 year old Keitt not sure  on what root stock. Got it in HD. The tree has small fruits. I mean small no more than a plum size for the last 3-4 years and they would split.   I would thin the fruit leaving 15 or so hoping they will grow to a normal size but they did not. The tree is about 9 feet .  I have just noticed black spots on panicles and a few on leaves.  Is it anthracnose? I have never sprayed it for fungal problems. Is that the reason for small fruit size?  Should I spray it ? Any other suggestions to get some fruit form this tree would be appreciated.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NyWf6bWK/IMG-1761.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyWf6bWK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R6KCXKBX/IMG-1762.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6KCXKBX)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 12, 2024, 09:23:38 AM
The fruit cracking can be caused by multiple reasons. In California, we often get cold weather which can lead to incomplete pollination. The resulting nubbin fruit often don’t have a fully formed seed and these thin seeded fruit crack at a significantly higher rate than fully pollinated fruit. You want pollination to occur during warmer weather. Often times, our trees will bloom multiple times throughout the year and at least one of the pollination events will occur during periods of warm weather.

The fruit cracking can also be caused by over watering and fertilizing at the wrong time of year. Try not to excessively water while your tree is holding fruit and avoid over fertilizing during heat waves. Fertilizers are pulled into the plant and changes the osmolarity of the fruit. If the osmolarity of the fruit becomes high due to fertilization and then the gardener waters heavily because of hot weather, the water will then be pulled into the fruit very quickly, causing the fruit to crack.

You can also try giving your tree some calcium in the form of gypsum. Frequent diluted feedings with kelp emulsion which contains auxins and cytokines can also increase Brix, fruit retention and size of your fruit. Yeast extract combined with kelp is also very good for mangos.

I’m not sure what the dark spots on your blooms are, I don’t like to give IDs without taxonomic identification using DNA but it doesn’t look bad. If you have fungal problems, it’s best to spray with Sulfur pre bloom and then again right before the blooms open. It’s also best to alternate what you spray. You can use an organic bio fungicide and then switch to organic copper and then back to Sulfur but your blooms don’t look like they need all that attention.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eggo on March 12, 2024, 10:34:15 AM
I would like to add that I think the California nubbins may also be caused by powdery mildew or/and other fungal pressures on the blooms.  This is due to my observation of NDM#4 which blooms for me 2-3 times at different seasons. My area has very high fungal pressures which I did not realize until I started adding more and more varieties.. NDM#4 will produce mostly nubbins for me even on summer or fall blooms if I don't spray during warm weather. Even leaves are highly powdery mildew prone almost year round if I do not spray.

Here's my channel if anyone is interesting in following my mango experiments in California.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxf2uM0NoUuW1ULUKU7yDaBX_0Eji96Ja&si=qVNIEMbfv8QCZ2h1

I am fairly new to most mango varieties as most varieties I have only been growing since 2022. However, i have grown a handful of varieties for over a couple of decades one which s NDM#4.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Elijah on March 18, 2024, 02:05:07 PM
Edited to include link
Florida rootstock trees don’t perform well for most gardeners
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0)

So, why not just plant a mango tree that you buy from the local nursery like you would any other fruit tree? There are several reasons. Firstly, Mangos are marginal here in SoCal and although they can withstand the cold in some counties of Southern California, they cannot easily grow unprotected in many other counties of SoCal. Mango growth is heavily influenced by climate and wether new growth is vegetative(leaves and shoots) or floral is primarily dependent on temperature. This holds true for Mangos in SoCal but not necessarily in warmer climates where age of previous flushes can also be of major significance. Aside from age of flushes and temperature, nutrition can aid in flowering promoting bigger or more flowers and can even help inhibit fruit drop.

Please see this article for in depth information on Mango flowering:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon

I have to chime in with your opinion that Florida rootstock tree may not do great in California. I learned this after killing all avocado trees from Florida and Puerto Rico.
I think because of the difference in humidity rather than temperature. If I have to buy any fruit tree from Florida I will buy it in the Winter so the tree will have a time to adjust (acclimate) to So. Cal humidity and temperature.