Organic Fertilizers

[johnb51]

When does providing a counterpoint “hijacking”?  I see individuals who are passionate about their points of views.  Nothing wrong with that.

But why ad hominen attacks?  That's my question.  Absolutely defend your point of view, but why make the other guy a villain or your enemy?  Everybody who doesn't agree with you is out to destroy America, that's the way it seems nowadays.  Jihad means killing people--pretty inflammatory.

[NateTheGreat]

I thought Mark's tone was a bit dismissive, but that his input was very helpful. 90% of the opinions you read on this forum are pro-organic, permaculture is a magic solution that big ag is too dumb to see, etc. The truth must be more nuanced.

[bsbullie]

"Elitist"  "Jihadist"  Why has it become so hard to have a conversation with someone with another point of view and another set of beliefs, experiences, and practices?  it just seems to me a little humility and respect would go a long way.

I totally agree there are different ways to grow but for some reason I am told I am elitis jihadist because my own experience and knowledge when I share my planting methods that some say are impossible..  individuals with zero natural tropical growing experience telling me I cannot grow tropical fruit this way. WTF how in the hell do you discuss, if 1 side calls names  and tells you your system fake and can’t be done, all because of some far fetched bizarre agenda they think I have.  All without ever speaking with me.  America needs higher nutrition in the foods we are growing that s my agenda.

I will say this, you promote organic growing which is all well and good.  I have no issues and I do buy many organic products when available.

You also tell people their fix to their problems are that they are doing things inorganically and should change.  You say everything grows better and tastes better.  That, my fried, is a bunch of malarkey  (better known as BS).

A happy and safe Thanksgiving to all!

[Frog Valley Farm]

No news here

[Daintree]

Let's just agree that there are many paths to the fruit stand.

I really REALLY don't want fertilizer to be "one of those" topics.

My nerves are already jangled from trying to avoid making somebody angry by merely mentioing politics, religion, gun control, global warming, and whether zebras are black with white stripes or white with black stripes!

Peace, joy, love and blessed holidays of all sorts to everyone!!!!

Carolyn

[murahilin]

But why ad hominen attacks?  That's my question.  Absolutely defend your point of view, but why make the other guy a villain or your enemy?  Everybody who doesn't agree with you is out to destroy America, that's the way it seems nowadays.  Jihad means killing people--pretty inflammatory.

No, it does not.

[joe_OC]

"I believe this biological system is the only way to grow tropical fruit trees in Florida especially with all this rain, more rain more plant growth in a biological system.  Of all the states I’ve lived; Northern California, Southern California, Oregon, Louisiana, New York, Virginia, Ohio, Florida is by far the easiest place ever to grow plants organically.  Together we can put and keep the life in Florida.  This is mutualism, it is so easy here."

Making absolute statements like this opens the door for a strong response, and he got one.  There are NO absolutes when it comes to growing fruits.  There is MORE than one way to do it.  But when you state that it's the ONLY way...There is a difference between sharing what works for you and pontificating what others should do. 

[bsbullie]

"I believe this biological system is the only way to grow tropical fruit trees in Florida especially with all this rain, more rain more plant growth in a biological system.  Of all the states I’ve lived; Northern California, Southern California, Oregon, Louisiana, New York, Virginia, Ohio, Florida is by far the easiest place ever to grow plants organically.  Together we can put and keep the life in Florida.  This is mutualism, it is so easy here."

Making absolute statements like this opens the door for a strong response, and he got one.  There are NO absolutes when it comes to growing fruits.  There is MORE than one way to do it.  But when you state that it's the ONLY way...There is a difference between sharing what works for you and pontificating what others should do.

**the record crowd stands and gives a rousing ovation**

[Mark in Texas]

Making absolute statements like this opens the door for a strong response, and he got one.  There are NO absolutes when it comes to growing fruits.  There is MORE than one way to do it.  But when you state that it's the ONLY way...There is a difference between sharing what works for you and pontificating what others should do.

....and the reason why he earned the title of an organic jihadist. 

Hydroponics gardening, especially on the huge scale of what the Dutch are doing is another great approach. They are SUPER high tech with their massive clean and modern greenhouses and produce tons of goodies using nothing more than water, salts.....and lots of computers. 

[Mark in Texas]

I am organic grower, it’s what I know.

That makes two of us, beginning with 15 acres of green manure crops witness the field of elbon rye which was cut at 6' after it seeded.



Then there was the 2 legumes (hairy vetch and sweet clover) which reseed and for 15 years pops up out of nowhere including in my greenhouse pots.



For shits and grins I've played with a boat load of bottled non-conventional additives and supplements and found 99% of them are snake oil.  That includes Medina products which  our local organic growers fall for.  Ironically they contain chlorides of Zn, Mg and other salts of trace elements and urea.    It's all snake oil.

  I know nutrients change the flavor of food crops.  If you couldn’t change flavor with management then most of your high end wine grape growers wouldn’t bother growing Biodynamically.

"High end"?  They are doing it for their "religious" beliefs and most fail either from a dead crop or financial ruin because it's not practical financially.  I should know, I live in the heart of the Texas wine country rated top 10 in the world by Wine Spectator, second only to Napa in wine tourism.  Some (i.e. Bending Branch, Comfort TX) have tried to grow grapes purely organically, bio, and given up with a field of dead vines thanks to such pests as Pierce's Disease.  Like aquaculture it's not practical.  Seen a local large op of that fail too.

There are 13 essential elements required for food production, has nothing to do with flavor.   That's a feeling not a fact and proven in the video I linked you too if you bothered to watch it - a blind taste comparison between organically grown apples, etc. and conventional.  The tasters always chose the conventionally grown fruit saying it tasted better "this must be the organic one."  The vendors have done a good job brainwashing some of us. 

It has been shown plants that cycle nutrients naturally have higher nutrient content.

Studies please.

....then there are elements considered "beneficial" like silicon.  Played with that one too, Dyna-Gro brand.

[flauro01]

Texas dude and others, you have made it very clear that you have a personal vendetta against Frog.  The name calling, time and effort you put into picking at every little word to twist and bend it into something it was never meant be is impressive.  You really showed him, congrats.  How dare he try to share his personal experiences here in an attempt to help others.  So what if he said it in a way you did not like.  Ask for clarification.  Why attack first without understanding true meaning and intent.  I suppose it is all in how you interpret the word.  I read this statement:  "I believe this biological system is the only way to grow tropical fruit trees in Florida especially with all this rain, more rain more plant growth in a biological system."  to mean "Only way to grow for him personally", saying nothing about how others should grow.   Much seems to be lost in other's translations.  Real experience should never trump something you read in a publication or book.  Bullying people with good intention is a sign of personal imbalance.  It is easy to bark loud in this arena because there is no real person to stand up for themselves.  Sadly, I see that no one else here intends to say anything contrary about it so I will.  I am nobody here and know very few.  But these type of personal attacks end up censoring real world experience that should be valued over a lot of misleading written disinformation out there.  This type of behavior should not be tolerated or applauded here or anywhere.  Shame on you all!

[bsbullie]

Texas dude and others, you have made it very clear that you have a personal vendetta against Frog.  The name calling, time and effort you put into picking at every little word to twist and bend it into something it was never meant be is impressive.  You really showed him, congrats.  How dare he try to share his personal experiences here in an attempt to help others.  So what if he said it in a way you did not like.  Ask for clarification.  Why attack first without understanding true meaning and intent.  I suppose it is all in how you interpret the word.  I read this statement:  "I believe this biological system is the only way to grow tropical fruit trees in Florida especially with all this rain, more rain more plant growth in a biological system."  to mean "Only way to grow for him personally", saying nothing about how others should grow.   Much seems to be lost in other's translations.  Real experience should never trump something you read in a publication or book.  Bullying people with good intention is a sign of personal imbalance.  It is easy to bark loud in this arena because there is no real person to stand up for themselves.  Sadly, I see that no one else here intends to say anything contrary about it so I will.  I am nobody here and know very few.  But these type of personal attacks end up censoring real world experience that should be valued over a lot of misleading written disinformation out there.  This type of behavior should not be tolerated or applauded here or anywhere.  Shame on you all!

Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to the forum.  Now, I will have to say its not the best way to make an entrance here...

Before YOU make any future attacks, you should know what you are talking about before posting (its obvious you dont).

[Finca La Isla]

Mark does come off as being angry I think.  I don’t doubt his level of knowledge but why is he even posting on this thread that is so anathema to his reality.  Why is he so obsessed with proving himself.
I’m an organic grower.  My farm is commercial and successful.  It provides me with a living as well as the families of my workers.  To me, his approach is highly critical of our endeavor.  To what end?
Peter

[bsbullie]

Mark does come off as being angry I think.  I don’t doubt his level of knowledge but why is he even posting on this thread that is so anathema to his reality.  Why is he so obsessed with proving himself.
I’m an organic grower.  My farm is commercial and successful.  It provides me with a living as well as the families of my workers.  To me, his approach is highly critical of our endeavor.  To what end?
Peter

Peter, I have respect for you and what you post is extremely informative.   One major difference is that you respond and provide information and recommendations all the while not criticizing those who dont grow organic, feel you must grow organic to be successful and/or problem free, or feel that quality fruit cant be grown without following the most extreme of organic practices.

[roblack]

I have a lot of respect for many of the posters here on this forum and within this thread.

Rob and Froggie are 2 of my favs.

You both make this forum way better.

I'm glad there are different opinions, and that those with success share their ideas.

And yes, there are many ways to grow plants and fruits.

Debate away, but don't get mad and leave. We need you both.

[Finca La Isla]

👌

[Cookie Monster]

y so serious??

Mark? That's just texan humor not coming across as well as it should given the medium.

No need for growing practices to become the basis for moral judgment. Conventional, organic, biodynamic, or a mix of all -- it's all good. Just use some common sense and be sure to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Don't forget the Dunning-Kruger effect. The more you actually know, the less you think you know and vice versa.

[Mark in Texas]

Oh the drama! 

Grow hard,
Mark

[Mark in Texas]

Mark does come off as being angry I think.

Of course, because.....  V

I’m an organic grower

 

I take a practical, middle of the road approach when it comes to using organics while supplementing that approach with conventional methods, chemicals, pest control, tools, etc. which has led to feeding the masses in an effective way according to science, not some cult. 

Again, hydroponics is more exact, controlled, than any of this organic stuff but you don't find water culture growers trying to force  "their way" down any one's throat.......screaming "hurray for me, I'm the truth and the light!"   

[Mark in Texas]

y so serious??

Mark? That's just texan humor not coming across as well as it should given the medium.

Once there was a beautiful woman who loved to work in her organic vegetable garden, but no matter what she did, she couldn't get her organic tomatoes to ripen.

Admiring her neighbor's garden, which had beautiful bright red organic tomatoes, she went one day and inquired of him his secret.

"It's really quite simple," the old man explained. "Twice each day, in the morning and in the evening, I expose myself in front of the tomatoes and they turn red with embarrassment."

Desperate for the perfect organic garden, she tried his advice and proceeded to expose herself to her plants twice daily. Two weeks passed and her neighbor stopped by to check her progress.

"So," he asked, "any luck with your tomatoes?"

"No," she replied excitedly... "but you should see the size of my cucumbers!"
 
  Have a nice day.

[roblack]

Thanks for that Mark!

Going to talk to wife about this.

[Mike T]

I enjoy MiT's posts and humour and I owe him broad leaf papaya seeds.

[bsbullie]

I enjoy MiT's posts and humour and I owe him broad leaf papaya seeds.

Organically grown?  Hahahahahahaha

[JoeP450]

I’m definitely interested to see any studies or published data on biodynamically grown fruit and the nutrient differences, I just like to read and I appreciate data/facts. I think it’s totally possible though as for example waygu beef or accorn fed pigs you get a completely different product based on the way the animal was reared and it’s diet. We also know this from the documentary “supersize me” what we are fed has real effects on our health. Please share if anyone has any studies ect?


-joe

[Finca La Isla]

So, this thread is titled 'organic fertilizers'.  A discussion was begun addressing this subject.  It’s something that interests me.  If there is a thread that doesn’t interest me or advocated something I don’t agree with I don’t participate.
But, I feel, Mark, for some reason needed to interject with a fusillade of contrary points that included personal insults and notions of 'thought police'.
Is this Texas humor? As some have suggested.
It’s intimidating if you have to deal with this sort of thing on a forum that I have really enjoyed and have tried to set a positive example on.  Makes me feel like taking a break from the fruit forum.
Saludos
Peter