Help needed to identify this Annona sp. Possibly Annona cacans

[Soren]

It would be most helpful to see the flower.  Antonio Morschbacker, contactable through the Rare Fruit Council, International, or through facebook, would be a good bet to help you identify this.  From this one picture it could be any one of several Annona or Rollinia species.

Har - I agree, this is not the best way of identifying an annona sp. as Helton Josué had limited "material" available for his identification - however, the additional information from Lorenzi's book on the vegetative propagation was identical to this annona, and something I have not seen for other species; though I am fairly sure it is not the only annona to exhibit this behavior, and therefore it can't be used as a conclusive evidence.
I did however not see the pronounced protuberances shown for Lorenzi's collection type, but I guess this could be a variation - will try and get a photo of the next flower to emerge. By the way, I do have the contacts of  Antonio Morschbacker.

[Guanabanus]

Anikulapo could well be right on his first guess, that the leaves and green fruit look like Rollinia rugulosa, a rare temperate zone fruit, that could well be of importance for breeding.  I believe those were what I saw, with very lumpy immature fruits, high in the sometimes snowy mountains of Rio Grande do Sul state in southern Brazil  (Parque do Caracol).  Those did have large, stiff, shiny leaves.

[Soren]

I don't have a key to the American annona (only the African), but if any one have it I will check for the characteristics against it (Oscar - does it also appear in Lorenzi's volumes?). Did find A. rugulosa in Anestors photo collection and he could very well have been the source; https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FzgFqg9SxIYLbs7aEzCC6g. From it, it appears several of the fruits lack the pronounced protuberances shown for Lorenzi's collection type. Could it be that vegetative propagation from the roots also appear for this species.?
Will try and get some photos over the weekend, including of the stem which also differs a lot from the other annona I have.

[Soren]

Some additional photos.



The characteristic bark of this annona (two stems in center).


Two flowers can be seen (though out of focus), it was not possible to get closeup of the flower structure with my smartphone camera.

[fruitlovers]

Those propeller shaped flowers are typical of Rollinia genus.

[Soren]

Those propeller shaped flowers are typical of Rollinia genus.

Indeed, and I am fairly sure you nailed it with Annona neosalicifolia or possibly salicifolia. You don't have a key for the latter species?

[fruitlovers]

I do. It's in Flora Neotropica vol. 57 on Rollinias. Only lists salicifolia. Will scan it tomorrow for you.

[fruitlovers]

Thanks for the information - would definitely need to get Lorenzi's books. By the way, I am the collector - got the seeds some years back from one of the Brazilian cultivators, but they were labeled Annona sp.

Looking up the name in http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php; I get both a A. salicifolia Ekman & R. E. Fr. and A. neosalicifolia H. Rainer· [Rainer, Heimo 1964-] which are not synonyms.
I am aware that Rollinia was merged with Annona, but have yet to update my species lists.

Rollinia salicifolia was renamed when Rollinia genus was dropped to Annona neosalicifolia. See
http://www.landesmuseum.at/pdf_frei_remote/ANNA_108B_0191-0205.pdf

[Soren]

Oscar, I read non in the below as not including A. salicifolia Ekman & R. E. Fr. in this quote from the article;

Annona neosalicifolia H. RAINE R, nom.n.
= Rollinia salici/olia SCHLTDL., Linnaea 9 (3): 317 (1834)
non: Annona salicifolia EKMAN &  R. E. F R ., Ark. Bot. 22B (2): 2, fig.  la - i (1929)

[fruitlovers]

Oscar, I read non in the below as not including A. salicifolia Ekman & R. E. Fr. in this quote from the article;

Annona neosalicifolia H. RAINE R, nom.n.
= Rollinia salici/olia SCHLTDL., Linnaea 9 (3): 317 (1834)
non: Annona salicifolia EKMAN &  R. E. F R ., Ark. Bot. 22B (2): 2, fig.  la - i (1929)

Hmmm, i read that as the name Annona salicifolia being dropped. If you look at the other new names on the list the same applies to every other name with neo as a new name prefix, the part after neo is dropped as a name.

[Soren]

Rainers article for the Natural History Museum Vienna is from May 2007 and if you check the two individual species in the database of the University of Vienna (http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/listTax.php), they don't appear as synonyms (only that Rollinia salicifolia· Schltdl. is a syn. of Annona neosalicifolia· H. Rainer). And if you look at Annona neosalicifolia, the taxon ID has a reference to the year 2007, so the information should be updated based on Rainers findings - see http://herbarium.botanik.univie.ac.at/annonaceae/editSpecies.php?sel=%3C66747%3E&nr=1

[Soren]

Oscar, I found this in Rainers article;

Annona neoulei H. RAINE R, nom.n.
= Rollinia ulei DIELS in PILGER, Verh. Bot. Vereins Prov. Brandenburg 47: 136 (1905)
Type: E. Ule 6425 [holotype: B!; isotypes: F (fragm.), G, L!, MG, S (fragm.)!]
non: Annona ulei  R . E . F R ., Acta Horti Berg. 10 (2): 243, tab. 15 (1931), (= Annona
jahnii SA FF.)
= Annona microcarpa Ruiz & PAV. ex G.DON, Gen. hist. 1: 90 (1831)
= Rollinia microcarpa (Ruiz & PAV. ex G.DON)  R . E . F R ., Acta Horti Berg. 12 (1):
187- 188, tab. 20(1934)
Type: H. Ruiz s.n., s.d. [lectotype (selected by MAAS 1992: 153): B! (photo K!); isotypes: G, MA!]
non: Annona microcarpa JACQ., Fragm. bot. 6: 40, tab. 44: fig. 7 (1809), (= Diospyros
cargillia F. MUE L L .)

I read this as Annona microcarpa JACQ. is not a recognized name, but an old synonym for Diospyros cargillia / Diospyros australis, and therefore non should be understood as 'not including' this Diospyros species in the new name Annona neoulei. Similar for Annona ulei (also noted with non), while Annona microcarpa Ruiz & PAV. ex G.DON,  Rollinia microcarpa (Ruiz & PAV. ex G.DON) and Rollinia ulei DIELS in PILGER all three are now synonyms of Annona neoulei H. RAINER

[Guanabanus]

Two species in the same genus may not have the same species name, but two species in different genera may have the same species name, which then presents a problem when those two genera get lumped together.  So the genus genus name that gets dropped has lower priority than the genus name that gets retained, so the species name conflict has to be resolved by changing the lower-priority species name--- adding "neo" in front is the easy solution, and to be safe, it is pointed out that this species name has nothing to do with the higher-priority species name that is retained unchanged, therefore the "non" entry.

[Soren]

Har - thanks for clearing it up.!

Oscar - I see from the page you scanned from Lorenzi's Brazilian Trees Vol. 3, that A. neosalicifolia shares some characteristics with A. rugulosa and A. emarginata; does Lorenzi's book mention anything about these two species' ability to produce root suckers?

[Guanabanus]

I have grown Rollinia emarginata;  it definitely produces root suckers.  This is a probably an adaptation that has promoted survival through extreme cold events in the temperate zone.

[fruitlovers]

Here's a scan for Soren of Flora Neotropica monograh with some info on Rollinia salicifolia

[Soren]

Thanks Oscar, let me try and key it accordingly.

[AlexRF]

Sorry, but it's exactly not  Annona neosalicifolia (Rollinia salicifolia). I received from Helton seeds of this type, their size is 3 times more. According to http://www.bananasraras.org/frutasrarasingles/annona8.htm the diameter of the fruit approximately in 2 times more. The trunk and branches is more powerful. If the flowers are not red, then it is certainly not Emarginata. It's very similar to Annona dolabripetala (ex Rollinia longifolia, Rollinia dolabripetala):
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/plantguides/view.asp?chkbox=18597
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/plantguides/view.asp?chkbox=18595
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/plantguides/view.asp?chkbox=16513

[Guanabanus]

Thank you, AlexRF.  Very interesting.

[AlexRF]

Dear Har,
Where I can read the text of your lecture for Broward BFVC, as well as other your materials related to Annonaceae (any data, files, links)?
Sincerely,
Alex

[Guanabanus]

There is no text for my slide-show lectures, other than the summaries provided later (sometimes) in club newsletters, by the editors or some other person who took notes.  Often these representations vary from the actual content which I presented.

If you can locate back issues of Tropical Fruit News and Tropical Fruit World and Broward Rare Fruit and Vegetable Council Newsletters, from the late 1980's thru the 1990's, you will find most of my articles in those.  Another article a few years ago appeared in the Pawpaw Patch.

A chapter I wrote appeared in Marginalized Crops: 1492 from another perspective, Food and Agriculture Organization, United Nations, 1992.  You can read this for free on Purdue University's New Crops website.

Also two papers in the Proceedings of the Florida State Horticultural Society, where the first author listed was Gary Zill.

[AlexRF]

Many thanks for the information, I will look for it...