World's Best - Thai Dwarf "are they the same"

[sc4001992]

Ok, I think I made my conclusion on this subject. I grafted both the Thai Dwarf and World's Best on my large Shangri La tree to do this comparison test.

Thai Dwarf has been grafted on 4/20/20
World's Best has been grafted on 8/16/20

The Results are:
- Leaves, growth pattern very similar
- Fruit size and taste, pretty much identical, can't tell the difference
- Only small difference I noticed is that the World's Best doesn't seem to have as many fruits (both gets lots) per branch as the Thai Dwarf. Could be due to 4 months difference in grafting date and also started with smaller scions of World's Best.
- Both fruits hang on the tree for a longer time than the Black Pakistan, White Pakistan, Shangri La

- My taste test results below shows what I feel are best tasting (1- best) to average: [everyone has their own preference of course]
  1) Black Pakistan
  2) White Pakistan
  3) Shangri La
  4) Thai Dwarf/ World's Best

Since I can't eat this much Thai Dwarf mulberry fruits, I have been giving them away to neighbors who have never eaten them and they all say its good. To me its just an average tasting fruit. It might be good for making jams or pies.

- When I have ripe fruits of the Tice, Red Himalayan, Silk Hope, Sangue Latte, Illinois Everbearing, I can add the rest of these to the list above.

I will post some photos I took later to show that these two are pretty much the same variety.
If I had to choose which one to grow, I would take the Thai Dwarf since it has so much more fruits than any mulberry I grow. Kids would love to pick these fruits, the branches grow long and when the fruits ripen, the branches will start to bend down so you can reach the fruits without getting on a ladder. I pick my fruits every day since it started to ripen. It looks like I will have fruits every day for 2 weeks. Picked fruits for 5 days now and still have hundreds of fruits on the branches.

If you only have space to grow one mulberry then I recommend the Thai Dwarf/World's Best. You will have lots of fruits to pick.

If you want to purchase Thai Dwarf plants -> Kevin Jones
If you want to purchase Thai Dwarf cuttings -> Ertdude
After the fruits are done, I can also provide cuttings as well since my tree branches will need to be cut back significantly.

[Fygee]

A friend of mine has a three year old World's Best and it has so many berries that it could feed a city. Got to check it out last week.

The taste, however, is lacking unfortunately. Once ripe, they were fairly bland. A little underripe, not bad though mostly tart without enough sweet.

I have one myself that is a fairly new rooted cutting. Next year, I'm going to supplement it with Foxfarm's Bembe to see if that helps give it better flavor.

Black Pakistan is still king of flavor and fruit size. If anyone can figure out how to have one with WB's productivity and compact growth with fruit as good as BP, then they're going to be a mulberry messiah.

[K-Rimes]

A friend of mine has a three year old World's Best and it has so many berries that it could feed a city. Got to check it out last week.

The taste, however, is lacking unfortunately. Once ripe, they were fairly bland. A little underripe, not bad though mostly tart without enough sweet.

I have one myself that is a fairly new rooted cutting. Next year, I'm going to supplement it with Foxfarm's Bembe to see if that helps give it better flavor.

Black Pakistan is still king of flavor and fruit size. If anyone can figure out how to have one with WB's productivity and compact growth with fruit as good as BP, then they're going to be a mulberry messiah.

My pakistani and king white (shatoot) produce prolifically. I can't ask for more.

I am always Mr. Negativity concerning everbearing. The fruit quality is honestly poor. I had hoped World's Best would be better, but it sounds like they're the same thing. Now, as a rootstock? Everbearing is top tier. Super easy to root, compatible with everything, and nice it doesn't get ridiculously big.

[sc4001992]

Fygee, yes they give tons of fruits to feed the entire neighborhood. Wait until you see my daily harvest and photos of my branches.

Kevin, I agree on the everbearing mulberry that I have. It grows well, branches stay skinny, and they make great rootstock for other varieties. Don't care much for the small fruits.

My Black Pakistan and White Pakistan have lots of fruits (not as much as Thai Dwarf) but the tree gets large fast so its hard to pick the fruits standing on the ground, I usually need to use a ladder for the ones above 6 ft. I'm still on crutches so its a pain to get up there and pick em.

[K-Rimes]

Fygee, yes they give tons of fruits to feed the entire neighborhood. Wait until you see my daily harvest and photos of my branches.

Kevin, I agree on the everbearing mulberry that I have. It grows well, branches stay skinny, and they make great rootstock for other varieties. Don't care much for the small fruits.

My Black Pakistan and White Pakistan have lots of fruits (not as much as Thai Dwarf) but the tree gets large fast so its hard to pick the fruits standing on the ground, I usually need to use a ladder for the ones above 6 ft. I'm still on crutches so its a pain to get up there and pick em.

I recommend getting a clean white bedsheet and putting it under the tree, then just grab the trunk or branches and shake it. Only the most ripe ones will fall. It works great for me and is super lazy. I do the same thing when trees are defoliating, just shake them hard and get it over with.

[fruitnut1944]

The world's best tasting mulberry is clearly a Morus nigra. Unfortunately those can't be grown in hot humid climates like Florida. They are also tender to winter cold. So they can only be grown in areas like CA. It's a wonderful plant in my greenhouse. Slow growing and moderately productive of very sweet/tart berries. Biggest downside, messy to pick and eat.

World's Best mulberry is a way different plant: massively vigorous and leafing out 6 weeks earlier than Morus nigra. In an area with spring freeze issues like here WBM will be toast outside. It is very productive of good sized but bland fruit.

[Galatians522]

I recommend getting a clean white bedsheet and putting it under the tree, then just grab the trunk or branches and shake it. Only the most ripe ones will fall. It works great for me and is super lazy. I do the same thing when trees are defoliating, just shake them hard and get it over with.

That is how my grandmother told me that they picked wild mulberries back around the great depression. I guess there was one year that they caned them for the winter because the crops had been poor and they thought they might starve. I would try to give them to her when I was a kid and she wouldn't eat them--too many bad memories I guess.

[spaugh]

Kaz, I got a everbearing and the fruit are so tiny, what should I graft onto it?  I like the small size tree for where its planted. 

Recently added Oscar, Larry's white, and persian trees here also. 

[sc4001992]

Brad, good question. I have not tasted the Oscar (I read its not that great), Larry's White and Persian mulberry. But I may need to graft the Persian mulberry since I keep hearing it is very good from some members in SD.

If you like the small size tree, graft my White Pakistan mulberry, the leaves are smaller than Australian Green or Shahtoot white local. I now have all three white mulberry types and I can confirm what I said here. The fruits of all of these white mulberry are about the same size and they taste very sweet, with some grass/melon flavor. The most vigorous grower of these is the Australian Green, it grows just like the Shangri La.

I hear that the Silk Hope is suppose to be very good tasting. But if you want a compact tree which fruits a lot, graft this Thai Dwarf, you can keep cutting the branches back to keep it small and it will have lots and lots of fruits. It is not that sweet, more like average taste but others have said it taste good. After my Thai Dwarf is finished with this crop of fruits, I can give you some cuttings to graft. I will be posting the photos tonight of this grafted tree. I picked 3 lbs of fruits yesterday from the tree.

[beicadad]

Kaz, thanks for sharing the info! I have an unknown white and an Australian green. I just can't tell them apart. Leave shape and fruit size, color, taste are all the same to me. I grafted a Pakistan white and time will tell if they are different. Chances are they all taste the same.

My multi-grafted tree in a 23" pot dropped most of its fruit though. very frustrating and don't know why?

How many crops do you get each year? the unknown white gives me multiple crops if I trim it after fruiting. Not sure it's true for other varieties.

[sc4001992]

For the Black pakistan mulberry, I seem to get two crops without trimming it back. One earlier, and another few months later. The later crops seems to be much more sweeter. If I trim the branches back it will get another crop before October.

For the White Pakistan, I only get one main crop which is starting to all fruit now and should be ripe in another month or two. Shangri La has ripe fruits from April - May. If I cut it back it will get one more crop.

[Kevin Jones]

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kaz,
I grafted your White Pakistan onto several Thai Dwarfs ... with almost every scion taking.

Kevin

[sc4001992]

Kevin, that's very good news. If you got the White pakistan from me then you got my smaller leaf (kinda dwarf/slow grower) which still gets fruits on all leaf nodes. My White Pakistan that I grafted on my adult Black Pakistan grew only 3-4 ft in one year, on that same tree I grafted the Australian Green to compare growth and it grew over 10 ft and the branch is 3x as thick with large leaf (similar shape). Fruits on the Australian green is just a little fatter but not as fat as the Black Pakistan fruits, fruit length ranges from 3-4 inches on the Australian.

[Kevin Jones]

Kaz... I guess I need to try your Australian Green next... if you have some available...watch for a PM.

Kevin

[sc4001992]

Kevin, right now it has fruits so I will need to wait until they are all done. I already tasted a few ripe fruits and they taste the same as the Shahtoot (local), White Pakistan, with long fruits. It will be another month before they are done.

[Kevin Jones]

Right-to!
Thanks.

Kevin

[K-Rimes]

Brad, good question. I have not tasted the Oscar (I read its not that great), Larry's White and Persian mulberry. But I may need to graft the Persian mulberry since I keep hearing it is very good from some members in SD.

If you like the small size tree, graft my White Pakistan mulberry, the leaves are smaller than Australian Green or Shahtoot white local. I now have all three white mulberry types and I can confirm what I said here. The fruits of all of these white mulberry are about the same size and they taste very sweet, with some grass/melon flavor. The most vigorous grower of these is the Australian Green, it grows just like the Shangri La.

I hear that the Silk Hope is suppose to be very good tasting. But if you want a compact tree which fruits a lot, graft this Thai Dwarf, you can keep cutting the branches back to keep it small and it will have lots and lots of fruits. It is not that sweet, more like average taste but others have said it taste good. After my Thai Dwarf is finished with this crop of fruits, I can give you some cuttings to graft. I will be posting the photos tonight of this grafted tree. I picked 3 lbs of fruits yesterday from the tree.

Persian is very, very good in my opinion. It is much later compared to my pakistani or white and so it extends the season really nicely. It is blue raspberry sour and very sweet / complex when ripe. I really like them. I still haven't figured out if persian is compatible with pakistani or thai everbearing. It is quite different in growth, bark texture, etc. I grafted some onto my boss's Pakistani earlier this year and they're still green so maybe they will take. I also grafted Cooke's Persian onto my Dave Wilson Persian. I won't know for a few more weeks cause my persian is just waking up from dormancy now and the scions I tacked on are on the same schedule I guess even though I grafted them into a much warmer climate than mine.

Brad, I think Himalayan, Persian, Pakistani, and Shatoot are all winners. The rest of the Florida ones I've been trying, tice, everbearing, black beauty and so on have pretty small fruit sets and I can see they will not be exemplary. I'm all about the long bois at this juncture (or fat boys if Persian).

[beicadad]

I grafted several Persian black in end of Jan and the graft union has started to heal but none pushed! The scions are still green but no sign of pushing... I can't figure it out. The other varieties that I grafted later all have pushed, even the Persians that I put in a cup have some roots now.

Very strange.

[sc4001992]

K-Rimes, if your Persian tastes that good, I may need to get a few cuttings from you. Do you have a large tree so you can take a few cuttings ?

[beicadad]

What do you guys think of Tice? It's got many hypes but to me it's a bit bland. I like Pakistan and Australian green better.

[sc4001992]

Ken, I grafted some Tice on my trees and have some green fruits now so I hope to taste them in a few weeks.

Have you tasted the Persian mulberry, I hear its also good ?

[nullzero]

The Persian mulberry is super vigorous. If you have limited room, suggest grafting it onto a more dwarfing mulberry.

[sc4001992]

nullzero, where are you located (10a) ?
I'm in SoCal and all my mulberry trees grow like crazy except for the White Pakistan and the Illinois Dwarf, everbearing dwarf plants. I take a chain saw to my Black Pakistan & Shangri La every year to keep it under 10 ft. I don't know if you saw the Thai Dwarf grafts on my Shangri La tree which is only 1 year old grafts, boy did this one grow crazy (over 10 ft branches).

I do have some taller (older) everbearing dwarf trees so I could graft some Persian on that tree. I usually like to first let my new grafts grow big and fast to get it to fruit, then I will move it onto the final tree location after evaluating the taste of the fruit. If it tastes bad, then it only gets a small spot (few branches) on my trees.

Ken, I did see a ripe Tice fruit today (rest are still green) and it does taste better than the Thai Dwarf. Not sure yet if it will be better tasting than the Shangri La, should know in a few weeks when I can compare the two.

[nullzero]

I grew it in Mission Viejo. I grew weeping mulberry and shangri la as well. The other mulberry tree not even close to grow rate. Persian mulberry was easily the most vigorous fruit tree I ever grew.