Author Topic: mexican sunflower  (Read 3046 times)

spaugh

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mexican sunflower
« on: March 09, 2021, 10:46:30 PM »
have you guys tried running it through a chipper?  i like how it looks and grows and want to plant a lot for mulching fruit trees but not sure how to process it.  i dont want super coarse chop and drop really. 
Brad Spaugh

shaneatwell

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2021, 11:25:20 PM »
I’ve never chipped it but I grow it. Definitely easy green. Dead too I would think. Similar to Jerusalem artichoke or even fennel. 
Shane

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2021, 02:35:46 AM »
Shane i have a few bushes of the yellow flower type, it grows like a beast.  The stuff is growing well and green even during winter.  I'm just not sure the best way to use it.  I'll try chipping it soon.  It may be too fibrous to chip up well, we'll see.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 02:38:06 AM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

pineislander

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2021, 10:09:20 PM »
I call it Tithonia Diversifolia since the trades usually use the 'Mexican Sunflower" name for the annual Tithonia Rotundifolia. I have a 25 hp PTO driven chipper and found it to be generally too soft and moist to chip well in mine. It clogs up and doesn't pass through the discharge even clogging up. Moringa and Mombin plum branches are similar. The only success I had was cutting and letting it dry in hard sun a week or so.

One interesting thing which I found then was that when chipped, the soft inner pith detached from the outer bark part. The pith strongly resembled what are usedas "packing peanuts"! Someone talented enough could probably improve on the process and develop a salable fully biodegradable/natural replacement product.

A friend with a small electric homeowner chipper found they could be sent through one by one but his unit fed vertically and discharged downwards so clogging wasn't much of an issue but progress was slow yielding only bucketfuls instead of truckloads.

Myself and others are working on scaling up production of this for biomass accumulation and ground coverage between tree rows. Planting is easy and it grows very well the challenge is management. Ideally the best material to use is soft and green which wouldn't need any more effort to process, just chop and place in position, it decays easily. Cutting when soft is easy but the stalks quickly become hard and if left too long the bottom part develops adventitious roots which easily grow if they touch the ground before they have a chance to dessicate.

Some ways to prevent that:
 -to lay whole stalks carefully bundled so that the lower end with roots always ends up resting on the upper end which doesn't root so easily, works ok when in a row.
- cut the upper stalks on a plant, lay that down first, then cut the lower stalks and lay on top
- Design a mulch producing system that includes other species like banana or a grass and lay whole Tithonia on top of that.
I have done the first two many times but it takes more careful work. This summer I plan to set up the third system and test it out.

One last mangement element we have realized is that over time a fairly large stump develops with cut stalks sticking up that eventually rot away. Periodically, perhaps annually, it was found that the stump can be 'reset' by low chainsawing the upper mass so that it gets more flush to the ground. It quickly resprouts and harvest can begin afresh. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2tBmImEMXs&t
If anyone else has suggestions, ideas or experiences manageing this plant I'll love to hear them.

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2021, 11:13:20 PM »
Thanks for the great post and the video was awesome 👌

Thats a lot of tithonia you got there.  Are using a machete to chop it?
Brad Spaugh

pineislander

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2021, 08:46:39 AM »
Thanks for the great post and the video was awesome 👌

Thats a lot of tithonia you got there.  Are using a machete to chop it?
I have quite a bit of it but the video isn't mine it is from a friend and collaborator's place. I'm not sure what tool he has used. I usually use lopper or even pruning saw.
This year I'm planting about 500 more clumps so considering trying out the 10 inch long 145 degree power scythe attachment for weedeater to get a lower cut every time. This should do the work standing up.
https://www.stihl.com/STIHL-power-tools-A-great-range/KombiSystem-and-MultiSystem/KombiSystem/KombiTools/274704-1484/FH-KM-145.aspx

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2021, 10:11:28 AM »
i dont think that attachmwnt is going to have what it takes to cut the thicknstalks and stumps.  the native vegitation here is all scrub brush types stuff thats similar to tithonia in that it has to be cleared neer the ground.  I either use a chainsaw or a husqarvarna forest clearing weedeater with a circular blade on it like this one

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2021, 11:17:10 AM »
I call it Tithonia Diversifolia since the trades usually use the 'Mexican Sunflower" name for the annual Tithonia Rotundifolia. I have a 25 hp PTO driven chipper and found it to be generally too soft and moist to chip well in mine. It clogs up and doesn't pass through the discharge even clogging up. Moringa and Mombin plum branches are similar. The only success I had was cutting and letting it dry in hard sun a week or so.

One interesting thing which I found then was that when chipped, the soft inner pith detached from the outer bark part. The pith strongly resembled what are usedas "packing peanuts"! Someone talented enough could probably improve on the process and develop a salable fully biodegradable/natural replacement product.

A friend with a small electric homeowner chipper found they could be sent through one by one but his unit fed vertically and discharged downwards so clogging wasn't much of an issue but progress was slow yielding only bucketfuls instead of truckloads.

Myself and others are working on scaling up production of this for biomass accumulation and ground coverage between tree rows. Planting is easy and it grows very well the challenge is management. Ideally the best material to use is soft and green which wouldn't need any more effort to process, just chop and place in position, it decays easily. Cutting when soft is easy but the stalks quickly become hard and if left too long the bottom part develops adventitious roots which easily grow if they touch the ground before they have a chance to dessicate.

Some ways to prevent that:
 -to lay whole stalks carefully bundled so that the lower end with roots always ends up resting on the upper end which doesn't root so easily, works ok when in a row.
- cut the upper stalks on a plant, lay that down first, then cut the lower stalks and lay on top
- Design a mulch producing system that includes other species like banana or a grass and lay whole Tithonia on top of that.
I have done the first two many times but it takes more careful work. This summer I plan to set up the third system and test it out.

One last mangement element we have realized is that over time a fairly large stump develops with cut stalks sticking up that eventually rot away. Periodically, perhaps annually, it was found that the stump can be 'reset' by low chainsawing the upper mass so that it gets more flush to the ground. It quickly resprouts and harvest can begin afresh. Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2tBmImEMXs&t
If anyone else has suggestions, ideas or experiences manageing this plant I'll love to hear them.
Interesting video.
I just purchased a bunch of cuttings with the intent of growing them between my avocadoes to help shade them while theyre young pretty similar to the mangoes.
unfortunately they got lost during the texas storms and arrived 3 weeks later moldy and hard as a rock...
-Kris

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2021, 11:40:42 AM »
better to wait a couple months to get cuttings so you can direct plant when its warm and they will just grow.  the stuff is a giant weed.  i will send free cuttings. 
Brad Spaugh

shaneatwell

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2021, 12:15:50 PM »
i dont think that attachmwnt is going to have what it takes to cut the thicknstalks and stumps.  the native vegitation here is all scrub brush types stuff thats similar to tithonia in that it has to be cleared neer the ground.  I either use a chainsaw or a husqarvarna forest clearing weedeater with a circular blade on it like this one



My response was so feeble next to pineislander.

On your trimmer, I've found the adaptor (available at HD) with triangular blade is much better. The saw blade can lock on hidden fencing. The triangle never. Look for 3-tooth grass and weed blade. 
Shane

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2021, 12:30:37 PM »
the husqavarna came with a triangle blade but I've never used it.  For clearing big branches like sumac the saw blade works wonders.  On smaller stuff, the triangle probably works well, I just never tried it.  I either swap on the string attachment or go for the saw blade.  I'll try that triangle soon though, weeds are getting thick here with the rains. 
Brad Spaugh

Ulfr

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2021, 03:29:52 PM »
I don’t have Tithonia but I do have a lot of vetiver. I use a blade similar to Brad. I know Shane said he had a good experience, but I found the tri blade style to be very average and changed to the circular blade style with good results. Either will cut straight through fencing with a decent trimmer (ask me how I know, doh!). I imagine results would be similar for the Mexican sunflower.

Vid here if you are interested - https://youtu.be/So113KLVInk

Sorry Brad I don’t have any chipper advice. I would have assumed it would be fine with a decent chipper but don’t know the plant.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 04:26:05 PM by Ulfr »

Ulfr

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2021, 03:42:25 PM »
Double post.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 03:44:18 PM by Ulfr »

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2021, 04:29:52 PM »
I don’t have Tithonia but I do have a lot of vetiver. I use a blade similar to Brad. I know Shane said he had a good experience, but I found the tri blade style to be very average and changed to the circular blade style with good results. Either will cut straight through fencing with a decent trimmer (ask me how I know, doh!). I imagine results would be similar for the Mexican sunflower.

Vid here if you are interested - https://youtu.be/So113KLVInk

Sorry Brad I don’t have any chipper advice. I would have assumed it would be fine with a decent chipper but don’t know the plant.

What do you do with it after you chop it down?  Just throw it in place or you break it down a bit more or?

My intended use is to chip it and throw it under avocado trees for mulch. 

I'm just not sure yet if I want to put hundreds of them in or just keep begging tree trimmers for mulch and lug that around. One of the huge drawbacks here is this stuff requires irrigation during summer which costs money and taxes the groundwater.  Not ideal, but maybe worthwhile.  I will have to experiment with how little it can be watered.  And also maybe chop it down going into the dry summer season to minimize irrigation requirement.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 04:32:47 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

canito 17

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2021, 04:36:10 PM »
Hi Spaugh.
I sent you an Email. You get it?


spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2021, 04:59:45 PM »
Hi Spaugh.
I sent you an Email. You get it?


Hello, I just read my mail.  If you are Michael I got your message and good to hear all is well.  Nice avocados you got there.  If you are not Mike W, then no I don't see a mail.
Brad Spaugh

Ulfr

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2021, 05:03:40 PM »
My main hedge (60m ish) is just uphill of a tree row (between two rows) so usually let it just fall on the row. On the uphill side I usually clump it up and put it under the trees. Makes a nice, airy mulch.

I don’t mind the look of it as mulch but chip does look nicer. It mostly breaks down here before the next trim but that might not happen there.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 05:11:41 PM by Ulfr »

canito 17

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 05:52:45 PM »
Hi
I will send a pm

Galatians522

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2021, 10:02:22 PM »
Spaugh,

I did not realize that you were that dry there. They grow all over the place here (even in some very sandy spots) with no irrigation. I am thinking you would have a high mortality rate if you pruned heavily just before or durring the dry season. We killed some viburnm plants that way once.

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2021, 11:29:30 PM »
Yes its dry here.  It usually doesn't rain from April to December here.  My rain total is 9in per year average I think.  All during the cold season when plants are dormant.  The weather is not that great here in that regard.   I have sprinklers if needed, it just costs money to irrigate.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2021, 09:12:55 AM »
I don’t have Tithonia but I do have a lot of vetiver. I use a blade similar to Brad. I know Shane said he had a good experience, but I found the tri blade style to be very average and changed to the circular blade style with good results. Either will cut straight through fencing with a decent trimmer (ask me how I know, doh!). I imagine results would be similar for the Mexican sunflower.

Vid here if you are interested - https://youtu.be/So113KLVInk

Sorry Brad I don’t have any chipper advice. I would have assumed it would be fine with a decent chipper but don’t know the plant.

What you using the vetiver for? Thinking about get some for chop and drop action. Also I have a pond that collapsed last flood season so I wanna make sure I dont lose more land into the pond.

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2021, 06:45:15 PM »
I finally got around to trying some of this through the chipper.  It works awesome, its like its made for a chipper, long skinny sticks that flow right through without any clogging.  Chips beautifully.  Ill be planting a lot of these throughout the orchard to chip and mulch in place.  No more moving tree trimmers mulch around.  My son took a video of it.

https://youtu.be/rbR9Ad4lNcs
Brad Spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2021, 08:11:50 PM »
spaugh, I think your son has a promising career as a sportscaster!!

simon_grow

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2021, 12:18:29 PM »
Dude, Adam had such a good time! I agree he would make an excellent sportscaster or a news anchor.

Simon

spaugh

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Re: mexican sunflower
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2021, 12:38:18 PM »
haha, Im working on having him really express himself.  sometimes we just go outside and yell for fun.  just let it all out, it feels really good I like to do it to.  we pump each other up like football players.
Brad Spaugh