Author Topic: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods  (Read 4188 times)

Saltcayman

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Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« on: December 14, 2016, 11:14:28 AM »
http://permacultureindia.org/permaculture-farms/

If all of us put up windbreaks, then we could grow our crops with a lot less water. The boundary plantings include food for humans, food for birds, leaf litter, wood and much more.   Birds then come and fertilize our plants. This year in this area is a bad year for mangoes.  There were rains at two major times that damaged the crops.  Our mango crop was not damaged, we do not know why, except that they are probably hardier than the commercial orchards.
And another thing- we know that plants grown by feeding of the soil taste a lot better than chemically farmed orchard fair.  Partly this is because we have selected cultivars (varieties) that have taste rather than shipping ability.  We believe there is a correlation between nutrition and taste.  We believe our method of feeding the soil means there is more nutritional value in the plants.    This is how they have evolved to receive their nutrition and given these optimal conditions they will produce optimal nutrition.    The one indicator we have found for this is the brix refractometer reading. Carrots grown with chemicals or even organic nutrients to feed the plant rate a 5 on the brix scale and plants where the soil is fed rate as high as 30.  One day science might choose to look at all this and tell us what is really happening.  Living organisms are very complicated.  Meanwhile we experience in ourselves how much more filling and nutritious this kind of food is.

fyliu

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 12:34:42 PM »
Glad that he's done well with this method. Good that he acknowledges he's not being scientific when he said the method is better than chemically grown. The most obvious problem is he changed many variables at the same time. Like getting better tasting cultivars for his crops, which is already set up with an advantage over the commercial crops

I think the main thing he's doing is helping with the ongoing scarcity of water in that region. Replentish the ground water. I can't decide if the wells are replentished naturally after the rain or if his digging around helped it along more than it naturally does. It sounded like it helped.

Seems it's better than California if he can hit water with a 9ft(meter?) well. But it's probably more remote and modern conveniences are not so readily available like 100 ft well drilling and solar pumps. So it's a very good thing he's doing over there. And if I were in his shoes, I would say my fruits are better too, otherwise, why bother.

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 12:55:18 PM »
🗯
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 09:34:46 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 01:40:18 PM »

I think the main thing he's doing is helping with the ongoing scarcity of water in that region. Replentish the ground water. I can't decide if the wells are replentished naturally after the rain or if his digging around helped it along more than it naturally does. It sounded like it helped.


I think he collects rainwater at the surface in a holding swale or pond and lets that rainwater slowly percolate into the water table , which then replenishes his well

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 01:47:08 PM »
Thanks for the link.  It's sad most people cannot understand this method or refuse to try.  I have over 1000 trees with 45 different species of tropical/subtropical fruit trees.  My trees have been in the ground here in Florida for about one year.  I have never watered any of them ever not one drop.  You do have to pay attention to the land and plant accordingly.  All My trees are healthy and thriving,  I did lose probably less then 50 grafted trees total but I think this was mainly do to the fact they were chemically dependent from the grower.  Mostly from one grower who I will not mention, nor buy from again.

Yeah, I am on rainwater collection and a cistern so water is scare.   Mulching really helps.  I have tried a couple of swales to trap rainwater which has worked well.  No fertilizer here.  Just add mulch, sulfur and humates for the most part... 

roblack

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 03:29:51 PM »
I really like the idea of growing different plants together. It just makes a lot of sense. Pests love it when their preferred food source predominates an area. With more diverse gardens and farms, who knows what benefits could be achieved. Also, underneath trees is such a great place to grow low light edibles, plants that help the soil, and that deter pests.

Tropheus76

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 08:46:43 AM »
Thats a really neat article. Ill have to print it and put it with my dust covered SHTF books along with my other gardening/tree books. We experience a similar low rain phenomenon where I live currently in eastern Central Florida. No really, we get very little rain due to some kind of weird bubble. Even the recent hurricane maybe dropped half an inch if that. We literally watched the bands separate evenly before hitting my neighborhood on the live radar. Someone on our FB page took a radar screenshot that had all of Orlando and Cocoa covered in heavy rains, we were the only clear area on the map. We joke someone in our neighborhood(its a 24 square mile neighborhood) has one of those weather controlling machines of conspiracy legend. So this is useful information for us in case something happens and we cant use electricity for wells and the canals dry up.

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 09:56:50 AM »
Glad you enjoyed it. The cool thing about his methods is that once the planting a, mulch and earthworks are in place, their function is passive. One could go away on vacation and not worry about everything dying if someone forgets to water.  These methods are also low cost and make the best use of untreated rainwater which is free.  All it takes is some knowledge, observation of your landscape, and hard work😅 

LivingParadise

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2016, 10:16:55 AM »
Great post! It's taking a lot of trial and error over here to see what does well - often, it turns out to be the total opposite of what the literature on a particular species would suggest! This may be because individual plants may be stronger and more resistant to drought and other problems than the average, and maybe others just happened to be weaker than their average - I don't know for sure yet. I agree that plants that have not been babied with chemicals and supplemented water tend to do better with little care, if they survive past the seedling stage. Like a child, too much oversight and micromanagement makes them totally dependent and unable to survive on their own. When they have to work for their survival from an early age, it's not such a shock to the system to have stressors come along.

Using debris from one plant for another works very well - like banana leaves and old coconut water and coconut husks and palm fronds are great for composting and also for mulching to keep in moisture for better drought resistance. Rain catchment is also a great way to spread out water in the lean times - which is ideal for here, because we will get dumped on for half the year and extreme drought for the other half. That of course is not the same as teaching plants to manage without supplemental water, but it can help to diversify the types of plants able to be grown, where some require high or consistent  watering, especially say at points of fruiting or whatever. Then at least it's totally sustainable, and if you set it up on a drip all you need to do is turn a spigot handle once a week or so, which is not very high maintenance.

I'm still experimenting with inter-planting for pest resistance, like with Neem, etc., and for soil enhancement like with ice cream bean and others. So far so good, though.

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2016, 04:38:35 PM »
Very cool approach in the Florida keys.  Grimal took a similar approach in his grove down there
http://growinghopeinitiative.org/history-2/

Tropheus76

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 07:55:31 AM »
Interesting LP, as many as I burn every year from the stupid palmetto I have all over the place in my yard, it never crossed my mind to use them for compost. I might have to look into a shredder for that purpose if I can find a small cheap one.

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2016, 08:47:17 AM »
I bought a small McKissick chipper 12P  http://www.mackissic.com/Hammermill%20Shredder-Chippers.html   I shred the thorny acacia trees in the neighborhood:) 

LivingParadise

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2016, 03:13:37 PM »
People handle landscaping in a hugely inefficient and expensive way with a lot of waste in Florida, and I don't know why. They hire people to trim and haul away all the good organic matter in their yards. Then they hire more people to spray poison all over where they live. Then they hire more people to haul in better soil or more plants when the old ones do poorly. Then they hire more people to water, and pay for a lot of excess water even in times of consumption restrictions and drought. Then they pay more people to bring in store-bought mulch.

But it's completely free to use all the various palm fronds, leaves, limbs, and other refuse right on the soil underneath the plants as they fall. When you do so, the plants get far more nutrition and are happy, and in many cases they get back the same nutrients they need, like for instance banana peels under a banana plant help with potassium. This means they don't need pesticides, nor fertilizers. Plus, they are always mulched so they need a lot less water, and don't need weed killer. And, there is no need to pay anyone to do it. I often just weave the fronds under the plant without bothering to chip, since they break down rather quickly here, when the plants have grown big enough to cover it so it doesn't look messy. When the plants are still small and the ground underneath is very visible, I have a fairly cheap chipper/shredder I bought off Amazon for those spots.

It's an easily self-sustaining method, is far better for the health of one's family and community, costs far less, and takes far less time than the way most of my neighbors handle their yards. It's like our culture has lost all contact with common sense. I don't know who first tricked Floridians into the idea that you need a landscaper and a ton of poison and extensive watering and fake mulch to have a nice yard, and then you need to go out and pay outrageous prices for crummy old produce at a grocery store that was shipped from 4,000 miles away, and then go to a doctor and pay outrageous prices for chemicals that were designed to do exactly the same thing as a plant originally could do for your health... but it amazes me that in a region that grows so many plants so easily - many of which are both edible and medicinal - almost all of this space is completely wasted, tons of money is thrown out the window, people actually aren't all that healthy, and the land and water is full of poison. None of it makes any sense to me.

We live in a natural paradise that has been completely ruined by human ego and ignorance. Plus then everybody complains they don't have enough money, when a huge chunk of their income goes to the grocery bill and landscapers and doctors to fix the cancer and autoimmune reactions we get from the poisons we put in our own homes.

I feel a bit like Grimal myself (although I am in the Upper Keys), because the person who owned my house before me was a perfect example of all that waste - growing a bunch of plants that were not native to here and had no edible or medicinal purpose whatsoever, and trimming and poisoning them within an inch of their lives. 3 years of daily work on this yard all by myself to completely overhaul everything in it including the soil, and I still have a long way to go. But I hope that I will leave something much nicer behind than what I inherited when I first arrived here. Granted a massive hurricane could come and wipe it all into the ocean, lol, but fingers crossed that won't happen! :)  I have some 300 species/varieties of plants here now, all packed into a single yard, and quite a few are finally beginning to take hold in the soil and do something.

My goal is to be almost completely self-sustaining someday. Right now, the yard accounts for about 30% of my groceries, and 20% of my medication (which is saying a lot, because I am fighting a life-threatening illness and that is very expensive). Each year I plan to increase those numbers. I'm growing multiple plants that have complete proteins, as well as root vegetables/carbs, vegetables, tons of fruits, and a large variety of seasonings. The vast majority of the plants have a dual medicinal purpose, and a few are rare strictly medicinal plants with powerful properties that make up for the fact that you can't eat them. So at some point, aside from buying a few items like rice, I really would want for very little.

It's been a huge amount of work, but so great to finally see this year some little bit of fruit and other foods growing in every month of the year. Right now they're just very small amounts because the plants are young, but each year there should be better yield. Plus, many of the plants are already making new plants, which can help supplement my income a little bit as I sell off some of these rare fruiting plants to other locals. But I am not quite at that point, the yard needs to be more established first.

The yard also helps to make friends, as people are very curious about various unusual plants I have here, or are grateful to share in a harvest of something they've never tried.

I truly can't imagine why everyone doesn't do this! :)  It's difficult work, and sometimes plants die and that's devastating, but it's fulfilling on nearly every level.

Saltcayman

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Re: Wonderful "off grid" dry tropical fruit farm story and methods
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 05:00:13 PM »
Love it!! Becoming partly self sustainable is my goal as well👍🏼 Sounds like you are doing all the right things. And agreed, it always amazes me when folks throw out perfectly good mulch and then go to the store to buy some...  Lol.

 

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