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Topics - Till

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Ichang Papada Kaviar
« on: November 10, 2023, 03:31:33 AM »
Here are pictures of a fruit of my Ichang Papeda. I apologize that the fotos is not as sharp as I wished. But you see that the structure of the juice sacs is exactly like that of the Fingerlime (C. australasiaca). It consists of small round perls. Interesting, isn't it? Is that normal for Ichang Papeda? I wonder why I did not realize it last year when I had my first fruits of the plant.






I am quite sure that I have pure C. ichangensis and not a hybrid. Leaves are typical, single flowers, not smelling, rich in nectar, seeds big, round and monoembryonic, sticky substance in the fruit, peel a bit bitter but otherwise mild, easy to peel, pulp juicy, sour and bitter.
Flowers were always cross pollinated with other citrus species. That's probably the reason why seed content of fruits was always small,a few with Rubino pollen, a few with frozen Morton pollen (the fruit in picture), but much more seeds with Chandler pollen. Still even when Chandler pollen was used there was some space left in the fruits for pulp.

My tree is a seedling tree from a hobby nursery.

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Citrus General Discussion / nature of sticky substances?
« on: March 25, 2023, 03:39:53 PM »
I would like to know more about the chemical nature of sticky substances like poncirin etc. Perhaps here is somebody who has scientific background (genetics, chemistry, or just read something) that can help me to get a bit deaper understanding.

I got the question because of some observations:

--> Poncirus contains a sticky substance called poncirin. It is often described as bitter and certainly as disgusting. Yet not all types of poncirus get bitter fruits (bitter in the narrow sence of the word: bitter like vermouth) while all - so far as I know - contain a sticky substance.

--> Some poncirus hybrids that I have tasted (Morton, Swingle 5 Star, African Shadock x Poncirus, a certain Citrumelo probably Sacaton) contain flavour components associated with the sticky substance of poncirus, some however very deluded (Morton). Yet pure poncirus juice often looses its disgusting flavour when it is allowed to stand one night in an open glas so that the sticky substance sinks to the ground. Even the odour of the juice is then pretty good. The same is true for Morton juice which hardly contains any sticky substance. If even the odor of the juice becomes good is then the bad taste perhaps something more volatile than the sticky something?

--> A fruit of Dunstan citrumelo that I could taste definitely contained a sticky substance but I found its taste not disguisting at all. The fruits were a bit sticky but tasted very good. So is the sticky substance really the reason for the bad poncirus taste or is the bad taste something independant of the sticky something? Does the sticky substance only accumulate the bad taste that would be there even if there was not resin in the fruits? Or is the sticky substance in Dunstan Citrumelo something chemically different from that in poncirus fruits?

--> C. ichangensis also contains a sticky substance around its seeds. But it tastes different from that in poncirus and is, at least to my taste, much more tolerable than that of poncirus. Is it chemically different?

--> C. australasiaca has some "glue" around its seeds not much but something. It tastes, however, ok.

--> The peel of pumelos (C. maxima) has a taste remiscent of poncirus fruits. Is it the same substance as in poncirus fruits?


To sume up my questions:
--> How many different sticky substances exist in citrus (including poncirus and eremocitrus)?
--> To what degree shall we distinguish between the sticky substance and disgusting taste?

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Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Wanted: Rusk Citrange
« on: January 06, 2023, 04:08:08 PM »
Hello, can somebody give me budwood or cuttings of Rusk citrange? I live in Germany / Europe. So it will legally only be possible from Europe, Great Britain, Skandinavia, perhaps East Europe.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Tetraploid Citranges
« on: December 29, 2022, 02:48:02 PM »
Hello,

I was wondering what happens when you double the chromosome number of a citrange. Will it be more tasty or more hardy? Has anybody an idea or even practical experience? I am a bit inspired by kumins seedlings but do not no if the tetraploid state of one of his hybrids matters.


I have by the way drunken my first pot of Morton Lemonade. Outstandingly good! Very tasty! The trick was to let the juice stand open for one night so that the (weak) Poncirus off-flavours faded away. (That also works well with pure poncirus juice if you don't use the bottom fraktion of the juice with the poncirin.)

I am curious now what will happen if I make for example the Morton citrange tetraploid. Will it be even better or more hardy?

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Hello together,

my Citrus ichangensis is going to bloom this coming spring. I would like to pollinate it with Kaffir Lime, Limequat, and Buddhas Hand. Has somebody viable pollen for me? The pollen should be dry. That is all.
I can give you money or something in exchange. Just ask me. I would also send budwood of the future seedlings if you have the patience to wait two years.

I live in Germany.

Regards,Till

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Hello,

I had to prune my Changsha Citrandarin - tragically enough. There was critical bark die back due to a wound infected by mould during our wet winter. So I had to cut off one of its two biggest branches, about 80 cm long and very well branched. Now I have this otherwise very strong branch and can send it whole or in parts to those who would like to have budwood or cuttings.

I have the plant from www.pflanzen-des-Suedens.de (Mr. Meeder, Germany). It is still listed there (https://www.pflanzen-des-suedens.de/Citruspflanzen/In-Vorbereitung/; No. 9). I have not yet gotten fruits. So all that I can say is that it is a strong plant on Poncirus rootstock that has thick thorny twigs and thick evergreen leaves.

In case that more than one person is interested I would divide the branch. I live in Germany. So I can ship to countries in the EU, probably to Brittany, Switzerland and all countries that have no importation bann for Citrus plants.

Yours,Till

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Kucle x Poncirus
« on: December 09, 2019, 02:14:07 PM »
Last but not least, my Kucle x Poncirus hybrids... Kucle is a cross between a Kumquat and a Clementine, so via Clementine also a cross with willow leaf mandarine.



All, except the plant below, are Poncirus hybrids.

Now look the plant in the middle of the next picture:



It has some trifoliate leaves - difficult to see on the photo, though. But nearly all leaves are monofoliate and quite narrow.

Here are some purely monofoliate seedlings from the same plant and year:



You see in the middle another plant with narrow leaves much like willow leaf mandarine. It seems to me that the feature of narrow leaves is (latently) present in Kucle and that it has the power to suppress trifoliate leaves. See also my post about Yuzu x Poncirus.

The growth rate of my Kucle hybrids is different. But many grow just as good as other Citrus seedlings. Some may be vigorious. It is difficult to say for sure when they are still so small.

About my pollination technics: Quite simple: I never castrated the flowers. I just took care that I pollinated before the bees were flying, i. e. early in the morning and several times a day as new flowers opened. Kucle usually has no pollen. It has only rarely got some flowers with pollen. So self pollination is not totally excluded but very unlikely. I had in the year of the cross some Citrus plants flowering in the same glashouse at the some time. But I had no Poncirus hybrids flowering.
I made the mistake that I placed my Kucle at a place much too hot. So growth was minimal that year and all fruits were only as big as small Kumquats (not even a third of the normal Kucle size). Yet all seeds were very well developed and germinated readily. Kucle is strictly monoembryonic and zygotic.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Calamondin x Poncirus
« on: December 09, 2019, 01:44:58 PM »
Hello,

I just want to share with you a picture of a Calamondin X Poncirus hybrid that I created. It is slow growing but look healthy. This plant, and a very tiny sibling, were the only seedlings of that year that grew under hot summer conditions in full sun and in mostly moist loamy soil. Root development was good. No signs of root rot at all. They did not grow well in half shadow and under cool conditions. Yet, they had no root problems under these conditions, either. The last growth, as you see, was not finished before winter. That is the reason for the yellow leaves.
Here the picture of the bigger seedling:


I had a few more Calamondin x Poncirus hybrids. But not all survived. Some germinated readily but grew only to the point when all nutritients from the seed were consumed. No obvious root problems. But finally they died. I suppose a genetic reason.
I am though very encouraged to try this type of cross again. Although Calamondin is highly polyembryonic I received some monoembryonic seeds and hybrid embryos from polyembryonic seeds. My pollination technics was quite superficial. I did not castrate the flowers. I did not even care that the flowers were newly opend and fresh. Bees were present all the time. But still I got a handfull hybrids from perhaps 30 fruits.

I also tried to pollinate Limquat with Poncirus. That also worked well. I had about three hybrids. But they died. The roots were too sensitive. But under different conditions I might have saved them.

Why did a do these crosses? Well, my idea was to produce something like a Citrangequat with higher Poncirus influence. I want to see to what degree Kumquat genes can suppress the bad taste of Poncirus. And I hope that my hybrids inherit from both Poncirus and Kumquat the feature that they bloom before shooting. If they do that would mean one more month for the fruits to ripe, that is one more month for fruit development before winter comes. I read it is hardly possible to cross Kumquat with Poncirus directly. So I tried Kumquat hybrids.



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Cold Hardy Citrus / Yuzu x Poncirus
« on: December 09, 2019, 11:10:52 AM »
Hello!

two years ago a was active on Citrus Growers Forum. Now I am back! Great that most people from the old forum are also active here! I had not much news to post inbetween. That was the reason I hersitated to register here. But now I can present a little seedling of cross I made. Yuzu x Poncirus:


A pitty that most seeds were rotten. Only three of them germinated, one was this hybrid. (I have to improve my seed care!)
It is interesting to me that the seedling is mostly monofoliate. But it is definitely a cross of Yuzu with pure Poncirus. There seems to be a rule that the smaller the leaves of the citrus parent the fewer trifoliate leaves you will find. I have also a cross of Kucle (= Kumquat x Clementine) x Poncirus that has narrow mostly monofoliate leaves. This seems to be the genetic influence of the willow leaf parent in Kucle. One purely monofoliate seeling of Kucle has leaves like the willow leaf mandarine. (To remember: Clementine is believed to be a cross with willow leaf mandarine).

I hope my Yuzu x Poncirus cross is somehow tasty and pretty hardy. We will see some day...




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