Zone pushing

[vstolbi]

I am in zone 7b (borderline zone /8). Last winter and this, I left some citruses (Navel orange, lemon, and mandarin) potted outside near the AC unit. From what I understand, the trees are rated zone 9. Surprisingly, not only did they survive but I also got really good fruit for the first time from those trees. This got me thinking - Could I grow things like mangos and citruses in ground in my climate with some zone pushing techniques? Does anyone know if the combination of the following would be successful to push an entire zone: non-led christmas lights, soil heating wiring, and wind sheltering by planting close to buildings

[Galatians522]

Eventually there comes a point of limited returns or the need for a greenhouse. In my opinion, pushing the limit a full zone is what most people are capeable of. Pushing two zones requires more than just a micro climate; it requires some luck as well. I'm in the middle of 9b, so for me to zone push mango (a zone 10 fruit) is doable. When we tried soursop (a zone 11 fruit) we only got results durring warm years (which is where the luck comes in). That being said, some plants do lend themselves more to zone pushing. A dwarf citrus that can be covered will be much more likely to work than a large tree that has its flowers on the branch tips (mango). Satsuma by the way is a zone 8 fruit.

[Plantinyum]

I am zone 7 , I build a greenhouse which right now is unheated and the minimal temp I had in there for now is -7C , which is around zone 9 . I am going to place another policarbonate layer on it with which I think in warmer years I can reach zone ten minimal temps without heating...It will be heated however from next winter on ....

[swincher]

I am in zone 7b (borderline zone /8). Last winter and this, I left some citruses (Navel orange, lemon, and mandarin) potted outside near the AC unit. From what I understand, the trees are rated zone 9. Surprisingly, not only did they survive but I also got really good fruit for the first time from those trees. This got me thinking - Could I grow things like mangos and citruses in ground in my climate with some zone pushing techniques? Does anyone know if the combination of the following would be successful to push an entire zone: non-led christmas lights, soil heating wiring, and wind sheltering by planting close to buildings

Without a greenhouse, mangos will be impossible to keep alive there, but you could probably manage things like dwarf citrus, satsuma (especially owari), maybe even the hardiest avocados (Del Rio, Lila, Fantastic, etc). But just be ready for the possibility of a really bad winter killing them. Such is the life of the zone pusher.

[jimmy_va]

Agreed with everyone above. I am in zone 7a and for over 10 years, I have a list of the possible trees to try planting here and mango was not even on that list. I have killed many, many trees along the way. Some even made it 4- 5 years but it only took that one bad winter and you 'll have to start all over again,I even had 12 foot trees died after 4-5 years of planting.  so my list got smaller and smaller each year. I ended up building frames over my subtropical trees including mango and cover them from December to April every year. I remove the cover from April to December.I planted a maha chinok, a glenn and a coconut cream mango tree 5 years ago and I do get fruits every year after two years of planting, just not a lot of fruits. Maybe the trees are still not mature enough.Please loot at the link and also see my other videos as well.
Thank you.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccrgOPkE9MA

[brian]

Build a greenhouse

I have a heated greenhouse and so far can successfully grow anything I've tried.  I have tomato plants that are years old.  My mango is flowering heavily right now.  I got so much citrus fruit this winter I had to give most of it away I couldn't eat it all.

[Tropical Bay Area]

Build a greenhouse

I have a heated greenhouse and so far can successfully grow anything I've tried.  I have tomato plants that are years old.  My mango is flowering heavily right now.  I got so much citrus fruit this winter I had to give most of it away I couldn't eat it all.

Damn, I wonder how long tomatoes live

[Galatians522]

Build a greenhouse

I have a heated greenhouse and so far can successfully grow anything I've tried.  I have tomato plants that are years old.  My mango is flowering heavily right now.  I got so much citrus fruit this winter I had to give most of it away I couldn't eat it all.

Damn, I wonder how long tomatoes live

It depends. Determinate tomatoes are short lived but indeterminate tomatoes can be fairly long lived. I would assume that an indeterminate tomato could live and produce as long as the conditions are favorable (temperature and disease pressure being the main factors that I am aware of).

[vstolbi]

Build a greenhouse

Thanks everyone as well as for the tip on not zone pushing more than one zone. I am planning on a greenhouse too but given that greenhouse space will be limited in it, I was really hoping to figure out a way to grow as many of the trees outdoors as possible. I had read about a study that found that some C-9 lights create up to a 19 degree difference and about the option of using soil warming cables as well... which had given me hope...

[JF]

Zone pushing in 6-7-8 zones is a fantasy unless you have a heated GH. Look what happen in Houston TX authorities found ppl frozen in their beds under cover in their recliners inside their homes and that’s a subtropical climate. In Brownsville same latitude as Miami FL freezes and snow. In Tampico MXbelow Cancer latitude 22 same as Havana Cuba 37F.

[vstolbi]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

[brian]

I haven't tried any outdoor zone pushing, butI would be concerned that a very cold night with wind could blow away any bubble of warm air generated by lights, etc. and leave your plants freezing.  Also, harsh winter storms are exactly when you're most likely to lose power.  I have multiple levels of battery-powered alarms and backup propane canisters so I could heat my greenhouse for a few days even with no power.   This kind of thing isn't really feasible outdoors.  You might be able to get by with christmas lights (and propane heaters for a power loss),  if you can throw up a makeshift tent on the worst cold windy days to keep some heat in, if you keep the trees a reasonable size. 

[brian]

Also, check out what poncirusguy did on the Citrus section (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=42469.0)

Basically, plant a sensitive tree right next to your house and build a makeshift greenhouse for it in the winter, remove during warmer months. 

[bsbullie]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

[bovine421]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

You seem to have great faith in C9 Christmas lights I am skeptical of even a 4° benefit and that would be iffy without a frost blanket. Hypothetically if you could barely keep a tree alive you still have the issue of the bloom which is much more fragile. I learned a new term this week it's called Bloom toast I'm sure it's not as appetizing as a mango. I would suggest ppp peaches Persimmons and pecans

[bovine421]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

[bsbullie]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

Trees get bigger as they get older.  C9 lights would become useless on a larger tree.  Plus, I am sure eventually the incandescent bulbs will become obsolete and do the LED versions give off any heat?   They also do not heat the ground and are not used for months on end, daily use.

Zone pushing is one thing, but growing mangoes outdoors/inground in zone 7 is just plain silly.

[bovine421]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

You seem to have great faith in C9 Christmas lights I am skeptical of even a 4° benefit and that would be iffy without a frost blanket. Hypothetically if you could barely keep a tree alive you still have the issue of the bloom which is much more fragile. I learned a new term this week it's called Bloom toast I'm sure it's not as appetizing as a mango. I would suggest ppp peaches Persimmons and pecans

Yeah I don't even think the folks up in Gainesville would entertain that idea. No matter how much beer they drink

[bsbullie]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

You seem to have great faith in C9 Christmas lights I am skeptical of even a 4° benefit and that would be iffy without a frost blanket. Hypothetically if you could barely keep a tree alive you still have the issue of the bloom which is much more fragile. I learned a new term this week it's called Bloom toast I'm sure it's not as appetizing as a mango. I would suggest ppp peaches Persimmons and pecans

Yeah I don't even think the folks up in Gainesville would entertain that idea. No matter how much beer they drink

Hey, I lived in Gainesville for 9 years.  Its not just about the beer...

[bovine421]

Ok. But what about heating measures such as heating cables for soil used on soil and tree and Christmas lights?

Are you looking to just try and keep a tree alive, which I am not sure thats truly possible,  or have the tree produce fruit?  If you are trying to keep a mango tree outside and produce,  give it up. Focus on what will work in your area.  If you have a true permanent heated greenhouse,  maybe but it will still be a challenge.

You seem to have great faith in C9 Christmas lights I am skeptical of even a 4° benefit and that would be iffy without a frost blanket. Hypothetically if you could barely keep a tree alive you still have the issue of the bloom which is much more fragile. I learned a new term this week it's called Bloom toast I'm sure it's not as appetizing as a mango. I would suggest ppp peaches Persimmons and pecans

Yeah I don't even think the folks up in Gainesville would entertain that idea. No matter how much beer they drink

Hey, I lived in Gainesville for 9 years.  Its not just about the beer...

Did you ever once contemplate growing a mango tree outside in Gainesville?
I think in that other university over in the Panhandle they would probably spell it manho  or mankno tee.