Questions on sugary sap producing palms. And attention to Philippine members.

[DurianLover]

Early apologizes to administrator if he thinks this is inappropriate, but the topic is about palms producing "liquid fruit" so to speak. Hope this topic stays.

Here is alleged list of all palms that can be used for tapping. http://www.cropsreview.com/list-of-palms.html
Two species aroused special interest. Caryota cumingii and Arenga tremula. Both native to Philippines.
We use Caryota urens, but one of the drawbacks is very long waiting period till first inflorescence. Caryota cumingii seems to be similar in appearance. I cannot find any information that this palm is actually used for sap production. If anyone knows something, would be nice to find out at what age first inflorescence appears and what is approximate production quantity per tree.

Arenga tremula is also on the list but again cannot find any information that it is actually used for tapping. I'm interested because it's dwarf, you don't need to claim for tapping. Anyone in Philippines knows anything about this species?

Final question to anyone. What are ingredients used in your country to prevent rapid sap fermentation? Placed in containers that is still hanging on the tree.  Some plants used I found are rather exotic, not readily available.

[barath]

Chilean Wine Palm comes to mind, though I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for.

[DurianLover]

Chilean Wine Palm comes to mind, though I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for.

This species seems to be strictly subtropical, so no go for me. I was interested for a moment because it produces miniature coconut like fruit, but than I read it is extremelly slow growing. Takes 20 years just to produce trunk, and 50 years to fruit. I think, I'll pass 

[DimplesLee]

I believe during the 80s Arenga, Areca, Caryota, Nypa, Phoenix, Borassus - have all been tested for tapping - for fermenting sap for toddy liquor to pure bottled pasteurised sap - there was a small market for "healthy palm juice" way back then, I can remember my grandmother buying bottles of the stuff from some obscure farmers market when I spent summers with her as a child.


Nowadays the Philippines prefers coconut - so coconut sugar and coconut "nectar" (pasteurised sap sold as bottled health drink). It's one of the reasons why old traditional tall coconut trees are gradually being replaced with dwarf coconuts - easier to tap and collect sap from height-wise, plus it only takes 3-4 years from the first inflorescence vs 8-10 years if you plant the tall coconut (traditional) cultivars.


Regarding fermentation - I was told farm workers collect the sap every 4-5 hours and the sap is filtered and boiled right after collection - no additional anti-fermentation additives used, organic sells better so everyone does the organic cocosugar processing route.


All of the palms listed in the table (in the link you provided) can actually be found in the Philippines - some are endemic, some introduced for ornamental purposes! Even the endemic C cumingii is commonly sold as a potted houseplant. A lot of commercial establishments have large potted fishtail palms - they look particularly nice in in giant white/black pots beside marble or granite clad building walls.

[DurianLover]

Thanks Dimples. Yeah, you can always go back to coconuts, no shortage of those . I just want to experiment a little bit with a other stuff, even if they will never be commercially viable.
While I'm huge fan of coconut nectar, Caryota urens goes slightly higher as its nectar feels slightly richer with stronger smoky and caramel undertones.  In Sri Lanka it is always preferred over coconut nectar.  Also Caryota and Arenga has higher output capacity over coconut.  I read somewhere dwarf coconuts produce twice less sap then tall varieties which kind of makes sense as more energy is stored in taller trunk.
Regarding fermentation, I would like to drink some as a drink, so preserving it to the max point is still a topic of interest for me. Well, basically I got a drill. Use any wood, bark, or leaves high in tannins.  Mangosteen rinds also do the trick.