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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 01:27:30 AM

Title: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 01:27:30 AM
Hello , finally I have some more $$$ and will be baying a greenhouse . I only have space for a smaller one like 4 on 3m , and 3m high. Now ,the decision on having one was way easier as we all know ,  compared to that which particular one  to buy 😅😅. There are different thicknesses of metal parts and policarbonate, most of the time the policarbonate sheets are with a thickness of 4 mm ,is that the best I can do ? .I am planning to make it heated in the future and in a perfect world would be happy to be able to grow my tropicals in there all year round. Should I search for a thicker polycarbonate ??
 Now I want  to make it as heat retentive as possible in the winter ,and was thinking if I dig a trench all around the perimeter of the greenhouse and use house isolating styrofoam sheets to manage to cut the coldness that passes thru the ground outside the greenhouse, into the ground inside ? Most of my plants will be potted ,I am not going to be planting them in the ground in the greenhouse,BUT am wondering if a can grow citrus ,feijoa, srawberry guava and such more cold hardy plants planted in the ground inside ?? There are so many variables ,my head will burst from so much posabilities 😅 . As for the heating in winter I am striving for the most cost effective way possible, but still dont want to find my plants frozen due to a burned out wood stove . Thanks for any recomendations and for any other tips for the mounting of the greenhouse, and any other tips are very welcomed. As for the temp I think in winter I dont need more then 15-20 c in the night for not so fragile tropicals ,and citrus I know will handle even subzero temps, correct  me if im wrong .
Thank u all once again ,and greetings from Bulgaria 😅🙋
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Jaboticaba45 on August 28, 2020, 08:22:07 AM
For smaller greenhouses I use plastic covering as it is cheaper. I also use small heater to keep the greenhouse above freezing. This was for a 6x6 ft greenhouse with subtropicals.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 28, 2020, 09:02:22 AM
Dynaglas palram.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
For smaller greenhouses I use plastic covering as it is cheaper. I also use small heater to keep the greenhouse above freezing. This was for a 6x6 ft greenhouse with subtropicals.
tanks, I already have one greenhouse with plastic covering ,but I have read that the nylon does not retain the warmth anywhere as good as policarbonate. Can you say more about your heating eguipment for winter. Also what are your lowest temps in winter, I see you are in zone 7b, Im also in zone 7. What subtropicals were you growing and what temp were you maintaining in the greenhouse, the lolest that did not couse problems ?? Tanks for any guidelines .




Dynaglas palram.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0)
thanks ,I did find the bulgarian name of the product, palram is the factory making it, but I cant find the product for sale .....
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 03:04:51 PM
Does anyone have experience with the 4mm thick ,policarbonate, with air between the layers ?
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 03:05:06 PM
Here's the thread from when I built my greenhouse:  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18512.75 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18512.75)

Insulating the foundation properly is a lot of work.  You not only need to dig a perimeter trench to put foam in, but you need something rigid to affix it to as the earth will move and break it apart.  If the foam boards are all cracked they won't provide much insulation.  If you *do* insulate the foundation and heat the greenhouse yeah you can plant tropicals right in the ground.  I did just that.

If don't feel it is necessary to plant in ground then you can save yourself a ton of time and expense by just using concrete footers to hold the frame and insulate the whole floor so it doesn't leak heat horribly.

Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
I've used 6mm and 8mm dual-wall polycarbonate for my greenhouses.  They are much better than single-pane anything, but they still don't insulate much compared to something opaque like foam board or fiberglass (which you can't use for a greenhouse, obviously).  Stopping air infiltration is much more important than the glazing material.  I chose polycarbonate because it looks nice and lasts long.  If I lived in a rural area I would probably do dual-wall inflated polyethylene and replace every couple years.

You will have to heat it, and your heating bills may be expensive unless you have a very cheap heat source.  I have natural gas which is dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Jaboticaba45 on August 28, 2020, 03:11:24 PM
I've used 6mm and 8mm dual-wall polycarbonate for my greenhouses.  They are much better than single-pane anything, but they still don't insulate much compared to something opaque like foam board or fiberglass (which you can't use for a greenhouse, obviously).  Stopping air infiltration is much more important than the glazing material.  I chose polycarbonate because it looks nice and lasts long.  If I lived in a rural area I would probably do dual-wall inflated polyethylene and replace every couple years.

You will have to heat it, and your heating bills may be expensive unless you have a very cheap heat source.  I have natural gas which is dirt cheap.

To set natural gas up did you need a permit? Also does the gas company charge you money? Dont know if I should use propane or natural gas.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 03:12:33 PM
Can you say more about your heating eguipment for winter. Also what are your lowest temps in winter, I see you are in zone 7b, Im also in zone 7. What subtropicals were you growing and what temp were you maintaining in the greenhouse, the lolest that did not couse problems ??

If you heat to 55F (???C) you can grow anything.  If you heat to 35F (~2C?) you can grow almost anything.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Jaboticaba45 on August 28, 2020, 03:14:21 PM
For smaller greenhouses I use plastic covering as it is cheaper. I also use small heater to keep the greenhouse above freezing. This was for a 6x6 ft greenhouse with subtropicals.
tanks, I already have one greenhouse with plastic covering ,but I have read that the nylon does not retain the warmth anywhere as good as policarbonate. Can you say more about your heating eguipment for winter. Also what are your lowest temps in winter, I see you are in zone 7b, Im also in zone 7. What subtropicals were you growing and what temp were you maintaining in the greenhouse, the lolest that did not couse problems ?? Tanks for any guidelines .




Dynaglas palram.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.0)
thanks ,I did find the bulgarian name of the product, palram is the factory making it, but I cant find the product for sale .....
Platinyum, the subtropicals were citrus and guavas. The lowest temperature they went to was about 28 and were fine. I use a cheap electric heater from local store.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 03:15:32 PM

To set natural gas up did you need a permit? Also does the gas company charge you money? Dont know if I should use propane or natural gas.

Yeah I had to get a permit.  I didn't have to pay extra to the gas company, only call them and telling them I was adding demand (I guess so they can tell me if they can't supply enough)  Propane is far more expensive than piped natural gas.  Choose natgas if it is available.  If your fuel source is expensive you will gain more from better insulation.  At some point if fuel is expensive enough it probably makes more sense to build a highly-insulated non-glazed structure and use grow lights.  I had dreams of making an automatic removal insulation blanket that would be pulled over the greenhouse at night, but I realized it wasn't worth the effort for me because natural gas is so cheap. 
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Kevin Jones on August 28, 2020, 03:45:34 PM
Plastic house with small electric heater for me as well... has worked well for years!

Kevin jones

Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
Thanks for the replies guys !!

Brian , tomorrow I will take a look  at your tread for the greenhouse, lots of info there I,m sure ! Now as for the ground insolation ,I am planning to plant in the ground only relatively hardier plants, think citrus, which do not need very warm soil temps, was thinking just to make this insolation just to gain some more warmth so the ground does not freeze. I have some really thick styrofoam peaces ,like 25-30 cm thick which I,m thinking will do a good job , but since u say its not so easy to do, and just burying the styrofoam will not work ...do u think if I make a sand layer on both or only on one side of the buried thing , will help with the ground shifting and possibly that way it will have some give in the process of moving dirt. Seems like the ground insolation will be the heaviest rock from the batch 😀
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 28, 2020, 04:10:21 PM
Plastic house with small electric heater for me as well... has worked well for years!

Kevin jones
I will be baying a electric heater too, but imagine if the electrisity went out in those -17c nights which I have here almost every winter, that is my main concern. And will have to have a plan b ...which will be either a gas fuel heater or a wood stove or something. Maybe I can use charcoal since it burns very slowly and releases more heat, so I have heard and witnessed .
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 05:56:17 PM
Thanks for the replies guys !!

Brian , tomorrow I will take a look  at your tread for the greenhouse, lots of info there I,m sure ! Now as for the ground insolation ,I am planning to plant in the ground only relatively hardier plants, think citrus, which do not need very warm soil temps, was thinking just to make this insolation just to gain some more warmth so the ground does not freeze. I have some really thick styrofoam peaces ,like 25-30 cm thick which I,m thinking will do a good job , but since u say its not so easy to do, and just burying the styrofoam will not work ...do u think if I make a sand layer on both or only on one side of the buried thing , will help with the ground shifting and possibly that way it will have some give in the process of moving dirt. Seems like the ground insolation will be the heaviest rock from the batch 😀

The reading I have done on insulation says that relatively small gaps in insulation have major effects on its effectiveness.  I am doubtful that you will be able to maintain a continuous insulation envelope using panels end-to-end as you describe.  Water should fill the gaps between the sand and freeze, so I don't think it will prevent heaving.  If you can find some way to firmly attach the seams of the foam panels it might work... look into "H-channels", so they could warp somewhat without breaking free at the seams.

Also, on sunny days even in the middle of winter a greenhouse will become very warm, however the soil might take time to warm up if the previous night was cold.  This imbalance could cause major issues as plant roots would become inactive and unable to feed the leaf activity. 

I am only speculating.  If you want to try you could put your insulation in, leave the greenhouse floor as dirt, and when winter comes use a meat thermometer to test the soil temperature.  If it keeps warm enough try planting into it.  If it is too cold, give up on in-ground planting and instead insulate the floor and use containers.

Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 05:59:19 PM
I will be baying a electric heater too, but imagine if the electrisity went out in those -17c nights which I have here almost every winter, that is my main concern. And will have to have a plan b ...which will be either a gas fuel heater or a wood stove or something. Maybe I can use charcoal since it burns very slowly and releases more heat, so I have heard and witnessed .

When I was using electric heaters in my old much smaller greenhouse it was very expensive.  Also, in the US you can only run a single heater per circuit so I had to run a second circuit.  In your country you may be able to pull more heat from a single electrical run, but I bet it will still be expensive.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 28, 2020, 08:10:12 PM
My small 6 X 8' greenhouse. It has two windows on the top. Total cost $425 including lumber.

(https://i.postimg.cc/yWwTp2JM/8-U1-A7387-Completed-Greenhouse-with-all-Polycarbonate-Panels-Installed-12-14-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yWwTp2JM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MvVmCtVv/8-U1-A7394-Completed-Greenhouse-with-all-Panels-Installed-Front-View-12-14-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MvVmCtVv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qtbssFVZ/8-U1-A7397-Greenhouse-with-Polycarbonate-Panels-Installed-Side-View-12-14-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qtbssFVZ)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 08:47:54 PM
In zone 10b, what are you keeping in the greenhouse?
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Epicatt2 on August 28, 2020, 09:55:59 PM
Plantinium,

I'd suggest that you might want to consider getting yourself a Mr. Heater.  It runs on lp-gas and a 20# tank will run it continuously on the medium setting for around 38 to 40 hours.  If you watch for them on sale you can pick one up for about twenty bucks.

It's a radiant heater and has near-complete combustion of the lp-gas and no open flame.  I used one for years in my orchid greenhouse and the orchids and tropicals in it never reacted badly to any combustion product. 

One year here (FLA) we had 17º–18ºF. overnight for two nights running which happened during an entire week during which the daytime temperature never went over 50ºF(!) and by setting two Mr. Heaters on MED they kept my 14x20-ft greenhouse at a minimum of 55ºF. overnight for the entire coldest two nights of the duration.

BTW, I always kept one full 20# tank of lp-gas as a back-up.

OK — HTH

Paul M.
==
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 28, 2020, 09:57:03 PM
I keep by Start Mangos and Avocado trees for winter. I had my mango trees flushing in January-February earlier in the year. I can more than double the growth rate of my subtropicals with a greenhouse.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 28, 2020, 09:58:32 PM
I used those Mr Heaters in my greenhouse the first winter before I got piped heat into my greenhouse.  They work very well, though it was annoying to have to constantly light them every night and turn off every morning.  And yes, I was running them unvented with no issues.  My carbon monoxide alarm never went off.  I still keep them as a backup in case I lose power/gas.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 29, 2020, 12:39:01 AM
BRIAN , I think I might fix the styrofoam peaces together with window mounting foam, the thing is very  sticky and expands when applied , do you think it will work that way ?? Also our winters in the past few ears seem to be more on the warmer side, last winter the ground did not froze, we had some very cold nights ,but still only on some places in my yard like raised beds the soil froze like 5 cm deep, for a short period of time . Now I know that this does not mean it will be always like that ....

JOHNNY EAT FRUIT , for me a greenhouse is needed mosly in spring and autumn when the temps are lower. In mid summer here we are HOT , so basically its not much needed . Till now, and for sure also this winter I will have my tropicals in the house next to windows cuz there,s no way I will finish the greenhouse fast enough before the frosts. Btw ,your greenhouse rocks !! Is it with polycarbonate or with glass, thought your in zone 10b ,so may not be a good comparison as to my case .


EPICATT2, I found them on amazon, they are expensive, but I,m sure I WIll find the thing way cheaper on other sites, like u suggested . Thought I will not be needing a heater this winter ,cuz my priority is first to build the greenhouse and maybe monitor the temps the first winter to see, what is the amplitude without warming it . Just wanted to hear what u all use as to heating..

Once again thanks for the great  conversation that is happening !!☺
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 29, 2020, 08:42:11 AM
Does anyone have experience with the 4mm thick ,policarbonate, with air between the layers ?

In research yes.  You'll get good insulation value with sharply reduced light transmission.

Nothing's easy.  :D
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 29, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
Does anyone have experience with the 4mm thick ,policarbonate, with air between the layers ?

In research yes.  You'll get good insulation value with sharply reduced light transmission.

Nothing's easy.  :D

hahah was hoping that thing with the light, that I also heard was not true ... yet again people succeed growing plants in such environment so ....guess should be fine ? 😀
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 29, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?  I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 29, 2020, 03:35:40 PM
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?  I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine
thanks ,if you dont mind me asking ,why did you changed the 8mm with 6 mm poly ??
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 29, 2020, 07:26:15 PM
My new greenhouse has bends on the sides, and 8mm doesn't bend much so they allow only 6mm which flexes more.  My old greenhouse had a single flat face for which 8mm was fine.  I would choose 8mm again if I could, it seems to be the best mix of cost, light transmission, and insulation value for our zone
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 29, 2020, 11:30:03 PM
My new greenhouse has bends on the sides, and 8mm doesn't bend much so they allow only 6mm which flexes more.  My old greenhouse had a single flat face for which 8mm was fine.  I would choose 8mm again if I could, it seems to be the best mix of cost, light transmission, and insulation value for our zone
many tanks !!☺
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 30, 2020, 08:39:20 AM
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?

Not even close.  You won't even get that kind of LT with clear corrugated greenhouse grade. More like 88-90% with high grade clear.  Google is your friend.

If memory serves me correct when I was shopping coverings 4 mm double panel LT was like 60%.  Add as little as 5 years of age and dirt and fungi buildup (which is real and a PITA to clean) and your tropical faves which are home to full tropical sun will suffer.

Quote
I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine

No way Brian.  Please show me some bonafide lab stats on that.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 30, 2020, 10:57:33 AM
I found this chart ,take a look..... now I am not saying it's 100% true , but seems reasonable . By your saying if 4 mm does let only 60 % light ,then 10 mm or up should  not let any, yet still they use them for growing plants. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/yg80dTCx/unnamed.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg80dTCx)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Longranger on August 30, 2020, 12:49:42 PM
Expensive stuff but I am considering Solawrap for my greenhouse covering. Price aside it offers advantages over polycarbonate. Flexibility, similar or better durability, R value, light transmission and warranty. Also lighter in weight and does not have open spaces for mold and algae to accumulate. Also ideal for roll up sides if that is a summer consideration in your area.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 30, 2020, 03:54:24 PM
Expensive stuff but I am considering Solawrap for my greenhouse covering. Price aside it offers advantages over polycarbonate. Flexibility, similar or better durability, R value, light transmission and warranty. Also lighter in weight and does not have open spaces for mold and algae to accumulate. Also ideal for roll up sides if that is a summer consideration in your area.
I was actually considering of wrapping the greenhouse with this bubble wrap material in winter, to gain more heat in, but I am thinking and thats not from any experience ,that this I not a very sturdy material on its own .
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 30, 2020, 05:52:13 PM
I found this chart ,take a look..... now I am not saying it's 100% true , but seems reasonable . By your saying if 4 mm does let only 60 % light ,then 10 mm or up should  not let any, yet still they use them for growing plants. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/yg80dTCx/unnamed.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg80dTCx)

Like I said it's about memory when doing research 9 years ago.  I use a 10K footcandle meter and even with new clear Lexan brand corrugated clear I got about 6,000 f.c. noon, summer installed.  Ad bullshit is 90%.   Keep in mind these folks are out to make sales.  You also have to take into account structural members.

Palram SolarSoft 80 was not the 80% LT they claimed to be so I filed a warranty claim about 2 years into the installation.  They fought me tooth and nail. Had to clip a sample and send it to them for their "official" tests which I as a Joe Blow could not verify.  After a year of threats they actually gave in and replaced the entire roof, this time with my requested SolarSoft 90 which allows much more LT.

Buyer beware
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 30, 2020, 05:55:06 PM
Expensive stuff but I am considering Solawrap for my greenhouse covering. Price aside it offers advantages over polycarbonate. Flexibility, similar or better durability, R value, light transmission and warranty. Also lighter in weight and does not have open spaces for mold and algae to accumulate. Also ideal for roll up sides if that is a summer consideration in your area.

So they claim.  Let me know how things are going 5 years in.  I'm on my 8 year with this stuff and experience rules.

Mold and algae will grow inside and  out.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Longranger on August 30, 2020, 07:09:58 PM
Due diligence is far from complete. Will want to speak directly with several owners who have had this stuff in service 5 plus years.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on August 30, 2020, 08:22:22 PM
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?

Not even close.  You won't even get that kind of LT with clear corrugated greenhouse grade. More like 88-90% with high grade clear.  Google is your friend.

If memory serves me correct when I was shopping coverings 4 mm double panel LT was like 60%.  Add as little as 5 years of age and dirt and fungi buildup (which is real and a PITA to clean) and your tropical faves which are home to full tropical sun will suffer.

Quote
I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine

No way Brian.  Please show me some bonafide lab stats on that.

You very well might be right on the percentages.  I can say though that both 8mm and 6mm twinwall have worked great for me for years. 
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 30, 2020, 11:30:51 PM
Expensive stuff but I am considering Solawrap for my greenhouse covering. Price aside it offers advantages over polycarbonate. Flexibility, similar or better durability, R value, light transmission and warranty. Also lighter in weight and does not have open spaces for mold and algae to accumulate. Also ideal for roll up sides if that is a summer consideration in your area.
I was actually considering of wrapping the greenhouse with this bubble wrap material in winter, to gain more heat in, but I am thinking and thats not from any experience ,that this I not a very sturdy material on its own .

I'm going to line the sides with insultaion foil to reflect light and heat. I'm just an amateur so don't reccomend you mimick my ideas

(https://i.postimg.cc/KK5Phz3F/propigation-diagram.png) (https://postimg.cc/KK5Phz3F)

haha, I might do your idea the next winter, cuz I havent build it yet  😀 till then I am waiting on reviews from you considering your idea . I
I found this chart ,take a look..... now I am not saying it's 100% true , but seems reasonable . By your saying if 4 mm does let only 60 % light ,then 10 mm or up should  not let any, yet still they use them for growing plants. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/yg80dTCx/unnamed.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yg80dTCx)


Like I said it's about memory when doing research 9 years ago.  I use a 10K footcandle meter and even with new clear Lexan brand corrugated clear I got about 6,000 f.c. noon, summer installed.  Ad bullshit is 90%.   Keep in mind these folks are out to make sales.  You also have to take into account structural members.

Palram SolarSoft 80 was not the 80% LT they claimed to be so I filed a warranty claim about 2 years into the installation.  They fought me tooth and nail. Had to clip a sample and send it to them for their "official" tests which I as a Joe Blow could not verify.  After a year of threats they actually gave in and replaced the entire roof, this time with my requested SolarSoft 90 which allows much more LT.

Buyer beware
lolll everyone seems to be wanting to take the green stuff, the qualities of the product that they will sell you does not matter .
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?

Not even close.  You won't even get that kind of LT with clear corrugated greenhouse grade. More like 88-90% with high grade clear.  Google is your friend.

If memory serves me correct when I was shopping coverings 4 mm double panel LT was like 60%.  Add as little as 5 years of age and dirt and fungi buildup (which is real and a PITA to clean) and your tropical faves which are home to full tropical sun will suffer.

Quote
I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine

No way Brian.  Please show me some bonafide lab stats on that.

You very well might be right on the percentages.  I can say though that both 8mm and 6mm twinwall have worked great for me for years. 
I dont have any experience with policarbonate, yesterday I was in one of the two ( of which i'm aware ) botanical gardens in Sofia , they are using polucarbotnate for theyr greenhouses. Dont know what the thickness was thought, looked to me like 6 or 8 mm. It is guite old ,was dirty and no more transparent ,yet the plants looked fine and did not look like they were starving for light. Its obvious thought that it stops light.
 
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on August 30, 2020, 11:48:47 PM
This week I will be baying the greenhouse, I am still comparing the ones that I found for sale . Will post what I have choosed and ,def will be making updates of the building process.
I will be putting it on my tomato bed, which will no longer be such. Desided on the size of it to be 4m length , 3m wide and 3 m high. I only have to wait my tomatoes to all ripen ,so I can start doing  the ground insolation and build the frame for the gh. Mr
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 01, 2020, 05:44:57 PM
I thought 4mm light transmission was very high, like 95%?  I am using 6mm which is less, and previously used 8mm which is like 80-85% with good results.  I think you'll be fine

Get a footcandle meter that registers to 10K f.c.   You'll be lucky to read 65% or 6,500 f.c., summer day, high noon, clear skies

 If I remember I'll take some readings and post some pix indoors and out when conditions are good.   

Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 02, 2020, 06:00:32 AM
I ordered the greenhouse yesterday ,they will deliver it around middle of september, I will start the work around beginning of october when I pull the tomatoes from the place. It will be with a high of 2  meters since the particular producer said  they dont make them 3m high. I will be making a concrete and brick base, with which I will lift the greenhouse ,so it has more high to it . I will stop with the posting for now and will be back when the work begins !
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 14, 2020, 02:45:26 PM
Hello ,once again 🙋🙋😀 the greenhouse is here, still waiting on the tomatoes thought... I made a quick sketch of the base for the greenhouse / how I will be making it. Please take a look and tell me, is it okay that way. Anything I can add or discard ??
Note: right side is in, left -out.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FfVVGXZf/IMG-20200914-214257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfVVGXZf)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 16, 2020, 05:25:40 PM
......,yet the plants looked fine and did not look like they were starving for light. Its obvious thought that it stops light.

And these fine looking plants were producing large crops of fruit?   ::)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 16, 2020, 05:33:54 PM
Hello ,once again 🙋🙋😀 the greenhouse is here, still waiting on the tomatoes thought... I made a quick sketch of the base for the greenhouse / how I will be making it. Please take a look and tell me, is it okay that way. Anything I can add or discard ??
Note: right side is in, left -out.

(https://i.postimg.cc/FfVVGXZf/IMG-20200914-214257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfVVGXZf)

I'm not sure what your goal is on the insulated footings.  Also suggests you may be over thinking this.  Flowering and fruiting trees/plants require high light for good production. Provide that and protection down to 1.6C and you'll be fine.

Also, I did footings for the columns and regret it.  It's much better to put down concrete footings and form up a beam, an outside bottom plate resting on them and then build your walls up on that perimeter plate.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on September 16, 2020, 07:36:21 PM
I don't believe that picture is showing a typical post footing, but rather the cross-section of a full perimeter wall.  The goal would be to insulate the dirt inside the greenhouse so it doesn't conduct heat out and to keep the soil warm enough allow in-ground planting.   If it were just a post/sonotube type footing then yeah it would be pointless to insulate it.

My suggested changes (pretty minor)
(https://i.imgur.com/w4AemTG.png)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 17, 2020, 12:51:52 AM
I don't believe that picture is showing a typical post footing, but rather the cross-section of a full perimeter wall.  The goal would be to insulate the dirt inside the greenhouse so it doesn't conduct heat out and to keep the soil warm enough allow in-ground planting.   If it were just a post/sonotube type footing then yeah it would be pointless to insulate it.

My suggested changes (pretty minor)
(https://i.imgur.com/w4AemTG.png)
yeah its a cross section ,that just shows the idea better. Thanks for the details about the coating material and the sloping on the top, will def take them into account.
 I was wondering if the bricks are any good if they are under the ground level in the moisture. I mean I will cover them with a sand and cement solution and then will have the sturofoam on the outher side which will have also be covered with a net and teracol.
My direct guestion is ,is is good that way in a sence to not let moisture to the bricks ,which will degrade fast in a such environment ,or should I make a concreete base right up to the soil level and then work from there with the bricks ?? Thanks to anyone and have a nice day !🙋
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 17, 2020, 12:54:47 AM
By the way, the work has started !!☺
(https://i.postimg.cc/nM027f6c/IMG-20200917-075238.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nM027f6c)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on September 17, 2020, 03:37:23 PM
Looks nice!

Assume that anything below ground level will become completely saturated with water, there's really no avoiding it.  I would think bricks would be fine, but I never thought about it. 
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 18, 2020, 12:56:06 AM
Yesterday I made half of the formwork and today will be putting the cement in . I made it to fix the level which had a light slope, and to make a more wide step on which to put the bricks later.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xkH8zYkc/IMG-20200918-075205.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkH8zYkc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FYw1z1HM/IMG-20200918-075212.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYw1z1HM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/688yBCtV/IMG-20200918-075221.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/688yBCtV)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on September 18, 2020, 03:18:03 PM
looks great, nice work!
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 19, 2020, 11:19:05 AM
Nice job!
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 20, 2020, 06:33:30 AM
Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate !!🙋🙋 . At this point it does not look like much, but those are the important first steps which take more time .....here are some pics with accompanied with some explenations .

This is the base of the south and west sides, will have a thinner cement wall which top will be leveled with the other two sides which are ready for bricks .
(https://i.postimg.cc/3kMnTWpY/IMG-20200920-073642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3kMnTWpY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xXKgTYyH/IMG-20200920-073648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXKgTYyH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBpQVCQ7/IMG-20200920-073659.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBpQVCQ7)

Here are some views of the north and east sides ,with brick put up just for the purpose of getting the idea .
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvXNZWBT/IMG-20200920-073525.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvXNZWBT)



(https://i.postimg.cc/G8rpwP3G/IMG-20200920-073513.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8rpwP3G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ftKRw3kF/IMG-20200920-073542.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ftKRw3kF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3ksR95PL/IMG-20200920-073551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3ksR95PL)


I will have insolating sheets on both sides of the walls , like shown in those pics .
(https://i.postimg.cc/PLS7TTTy/IMG-20200920-073627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLS7TTTy)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kD6H30ZN/IMG-20200920-073622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kD6H30ZN)


Thanks to anyone whose following my work and making suggestions for the happenings 😜😜🙌😀
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on September 20, 2020, 11:00:10 AM
This is going to look awesome.  I love how you have it integrated into your patio
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 20, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
Again, well executed to the most important part of this build - the foundation.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 20, 2020, 03:49:30 PM
Thanks ,new update coming in a few days !!
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 24, 2020, 01:52:45 PM
Hi all , heres an update on the work in progress, today I casted the concrete base on the south and west sides . If its enough hardened ,tomorrow I will open the frame and will post pics of what happened . Tomorrow I'm starting to put the bricks on the  other two sides and will post pics soon. ☺☺ here are te pics .

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJQHd94m/IMG-20200924-185745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJQHd94m)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBgMv4jD/IMG-20200924-185801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBgMv4jD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rDPBshTc/IMG-20200924-185808.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rDPBshTc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/c67GhMRM/IMG-20200924-185819.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c67GhMRM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1fJhhmY8/IMG-20200924-185849.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fJhhmY8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HrnGTqfB/IMG-20200924-185905.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrnGTqfB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyZv7tNQ/IMG-20200924-185914.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyZv7tNQ)
 And here is one huge unknown fig ,just for fun !!😀😀

(https://i.postimg.cc/F1Hwb5Km/IMG-20200921-141303.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1Hwb5Km)

(https://i.postimg.cc/VrDpy4D3/IMG-20200921-141309.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrDpy4D3)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 28, 2020, 02:04:07 AM
Here is the ready thing , now I will put a cement/sand layer on the brick part to fill the holes , put the insolation first on the parts that will be buried in soil so I can spread out the huge mountain of soil thats in the center of the thing . After that I will put the metal frame of the greenhouse, then put the remaining insolation so I can fit it around the metal parts .
(https://i.postimg.cc/ft9JD8z2/IMG-20200928-075945.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ft9JD8z2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BPft62tq/IMG-20200928-075959.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BPft62tq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJ5kMMH3/IMG-20200928-080010.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJ5kMMH3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t1rhYvH9/IMG-20200928-080027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1rhYvH9)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 28, 2020, 08:01:27 AM
Very nice beds.   RootBuilder lets you do the same thing regarding starting them in good soil and they work great for my permanent installation of trees.  Being bottomless the trees eventually root into native soil.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: brian on September 28, 2020, 11:06:40 AM
Nice brickwork. That is something I have always been terrible at.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on September 28, 2020, 02:20:26 PM
Very nice beds.   RootBuilder lets you do the same thing regarding starting them in good soil and they work great for my permanent installation of trees.  Being bottomless the trees eventually root into native soil.
thanks ,the soil will not be higher than it is now, thats the main soil level, path and so on, yet I may make two narrow beds raised beds ,but thats a theme for another tread I suppose ☺


Nice brickwork. That is something I have always been terrible at.
much thanks , loll there are only tree rolls of bricks, if they were to be more i'm sure it would not look so well performed.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on October 06, 2020, 03:27:01 AM
Trowing an update ,starting to look like something  ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/zb3BPs3v/IMG-20201004-192211.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zb3BPs3v)
Sorry for the darkish pic, and thanks to anyone who is following my building project ☺
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on October 28, 2020, 11:59:50 AM
Here's an hot, out of the oven update for yall 😀😀☺ haha, i'm so happy that its almost finished . What do u all think 😀😀I feel like this is the most significant thing I have done in my life so far.....by the way nevermind the non existent stairs at the entrance, still working on that part ...
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKcnpXn8/IMG-20201028-163356.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKcnpXn8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3mtpjNB/IMG-20201028-163410.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3mtpjNB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBKd4p8s/IMG-20201028-163425.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBKd4p8s)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JD6Bn0Kr/IMG-20201028-163437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JD6Bn0Kr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XpTddZWX/IMG-20201028-163453.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpTddZWX)
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Seanny on October 28, 2020, 12:34:13 PM
Looks great.
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Mark in Texas on October 31, 2020, 09:45:06 AM
I'd be very proud of that.  Congrats!
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: ScottR on October 31, 2020, 11:58:29 AM
Beautiful G.H.you did a great job like the raised brick walls best of luck growing!
Title: Re: Policarbonate greenhouse recomendations
Post by: Plantinyum on November 01, 2020, 04:23:36 AM
Thanks everyone, the discussion that happened in this tread really helped me out on what to do !!☺☺