The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: johnb51 on April 10, 2020, 09:49:06 AM
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The legendary Har Mahdeem has tasted an awful lot of mangos in his life (and remained a wonderful, humble guy)! Always willing to offer you great advice when you meet him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGCCkUhM0I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGCCkUhM0I)
To recap, Fruit Punch, Jakarta, Kathy, Lemon Zest, M-4, Orange Essence, Pram Kai Meu, and Carrie.
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Har such a great person!
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Har such a great person!
Totally agree. And so knowledgeable.
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The legendary Har Mahdeem has tasted an awful lot of mangos in his life (and remained a wonderful, humble guy)! Always willing to offer you great advice when you meet him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGCCkUhM0I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGCCkUhM0I)
To recap, Fruit Punch, Jakarta, Kathy, Lemon Zest, M-4, Orange Essence, Pram Kai Meu, and Carrie.
Happy that I have 5 of the mangoes on the list. Fruit Punch, Kathy an Orange Essence are grafts on to other trees, but I have Carrie and Lemon Zest on the ground. A good size M-4 is next on my list.
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Brahm kai meu is originally from my province but i have never seen the mango....I have 2 of those tree's though and they are disease resistant it seems but they didn't bloom yet.
It is a green eating mango i heard, but is it really nice eaten green? As nice as mun kun si or keo savoei?
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Har should narrate audio books.
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With Lemon Zest having problems that have been discussed here..... I wonder what Har says to do to keep them healthy and producing. On his list I have Lemon Zest and Carrie. They have some huge mangoes hanging in this video.
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Har is a great resource. Lucky to have him on the forum.
Jakarta is a great mango, as well as the related bombay and sunrise (surprised Har did not recommend sunrise).
As for lemon zest, I've had good success with them. This year, all 3 are loaded and haven't spotted MBBS on them yet this year (except for a few when they were bb-sized, which eventually just dropped off). The key has been fortnightly fungicide spraying. However, those who live in less humid areas or with sufficient air flow may not have any issues -- it really seems to vary by location. My LZ have also been regular producers over the past 3 years or so.
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With Lemon Zest having problems that have been discussed here..... I wonder what Har says to do to keep them healthy and producing. On his list I have Lemon Zest and Carrie. They have some huge mangoes hanging in this video.
I think he does mention that Truly Tropical's coastal location is best for LZ. Also, he says the if he spots any MBBS on immature fruit, he immediately removes that fruit.
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I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
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So looking forward to the day i'm ready to head there & bring home a few of them trees! Still prepping.
I must've watched 10hrs of TT videos :)
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Har is a great resource. Lucky to have him on the forum.
Jakarta is a great mango, as well as the related bombay and sunrise (surprised Har did not recommend sunrise).
As for lemon zest, I've had good success with them. This year, all 3 are loaded and haven't spotted MBBS on them yet this year (except for a few when they were bb-sized, which eventually just dropped off). The key has been fortnightly fungicide spraying. However, those who live in less humid areas or with sufficient air flow may not have any issues -- it really seems to vary by location. My LZ have also been regular producers over the past 3 years or so.
I thought about Sunrise as well when I watched the video. My tree has a good crop this year. One of my favorites. My LZ is small, three years in the ground, but it has about 10 mangoes on it now.
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OS tends to be smaller, and differently shaped. In my yard, it tends to be less productive. Flavor is slightly different, closer to LM in my mind. (I like LZ best of the three.) OS also seems more susceptible to internal breakdown.
I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
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Fruit Punch (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Lemon Zest (YESSS - Har is the man!)
M-4 (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Orange Essence (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Carrie (You are dead to me.)
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:D It's all about eating it at just the right time. The carrie can either be smooth and ultra delicious or the taste and texture of vomit, depending on cultural conditions and stage of ripeness. There's not much of an in between.
Fruit Punch (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Lemon Zest (YESSS - Har is the man!)
M-4 (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Orange Essence (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Carrie (You are dead to me.)
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The main problem with Carrie is there is not much of an in between.
Underripe it has TOO much resin (and I like resinous mangoes).
Texture is a problem, it just turns to mush when overripe.
No real visual clues I can pick up and hard to tell just by firmness when it is perfect.
At least from my Dad's tree it seems like the window of perfection for picking is only hours long, and I am usually disappointed when I eat one.
What cultural conditions are best to maximize chances of getting good ones?
It can be supremely delicious BUT I much prefer mango varieties that are consistently and predictably good.
My Dad is stubborn and won't let me topwork his Carrie tree. He does have an irrigation system and good topsoil, I wonder if that is affecting the way the fruit ripens. I don't give the tree any nitrogen.
One plus is that it often sets some fruit from early bloom , one year we were eating fruit April 20th and usually have some drops that are edible by early May. Sometimes it will hold a few fruit from later bloom until early August too, every year I check the whole tree in mid-late July to see if any are hiding.
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Yep, great resource and a humble man. After losing 2 of 3 large branches of Orange Sherbet attached at the same point on the trunk of a cocktail tree Har pointed out that it's too much weight bearing for such a single point. Alternate branching is the only way to go on mango.
To be honest I haven't really tasted a bad mango coming out of Florida whether I grew it or ordered a box from Alex year after year. I also LOVE Glenn which bought from PIN. I have a graft/branch of Fruit Punch on it.
I know these are Har's faves but there's lots good ones like Sweet Tart and Pineapple Pleasure too.
My first Glenn. The super sweet almost nauseating tropical aroma that comes from this fruit is unreal. Had to move it away from my computer it's so strong. Great texture and taste.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hQPNmKPw/Glenn-Fruit-July24.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQPNmKPw)
Mark
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The main problem with Carrie is there is not much of an in between.
Underripe it has TOO much resin (and I like resinous mangoes).
I think you would roll over if you saw me yesterday..... I was picking up the dropped green to yellowish (close to rotting) Carrie Mangos off the ground and eating them.... I enjoyed the resinous mixture under the hard green skin of these small dropped mangos... lol...It's one of my favorite early season drops to pick up and eat green (almost rotten greenish-yellow skin).... Yep, we all have different tastes.
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The main problem with Carrie is there is not much of an in between.
Underripe it has TOO much resin (and I like resinous mangoes).
I think you would roll over if you saw me yesterday..... I was picking up the dropped green to yellowish (close to rotting) Carrie Mangos off the ground and eating them.... I enjoyed the resinous mixture under the hard green skin of these small dropped mangos... lol...It's one of my favorite early season drops to pick up and eat green (almost rotten greenish-yellow skin).... Yep, we all have different tastes.
The best carambola are those that drop to the ground and late in the season. They have the most sweetness and the least astringency. Cut off the green edges that are the most astringent part of the fruit. Over-ripe is the best for this fruit. Though if juicing, pick it at firm.
Mango drops. If gotten too by a critter I will toss in the bushes. If I really want to eat it, is an above average mango, I subject it to high pressure out of the garden hose nozzle attachment. Focused on where the wound is. With Covid X here I often wash my hands via high pressure water out of the garden hose. Knocks all the baddies off. With a bit of liquid dish washing soap first rubbed around.
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I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
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I want to see a Har top 10 annona video next!
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I want to see a Har top 10 annona video next!
He posted it on these boards some time ago.
Interestingly, Pawpaw ranks above Cherimoya.
I have tasted a lot of annonas, including over 400 hybrids that I bred.
Which are the tastier ones? The order of mention could vary a lot, depending on the genetics and culture of the tree and on the genetics and culture of the taster.
"De gustibus non disputandum est!"
1) Some varieties of Northern-Pawpaw and some varieties of Cherimoya vie for Number One on my list. Other varieties of those same species I do not like at all!
2) Crassiflora
3) Cawesh
4) Amazon Custard Fruit / Biriba
5) Custard-Apple
6) Ilama
7) Guanabana
Sugar-Apples and Atemoyas and Muvulus are also good.
Interesting but problematic are Mountain-Soursops and Soncoyas and Cornifolia and many small-and-seedy Rollinia species.
Check to see if anyone is having success with fruiting Pawpaw (Asimina triloba) in your area [I don't know if it can take Santa Ana winds.]. That is the only Annonaceae family fruit which I like even better than cherimoya.
I have heard very good things about Annona vepretorum, from southern Brazil, which might do well in your area. Southern Brazil also has several very tasty, but very seedy, Rollinia species, which also might do well in your area.
Annona crassiflora, from the dryish central Brazilian plateau, is also amazingly delicious, and possibly tough enough for southern California. It has a serious lack of adaptability to soils outside of its native area--- may need extreme acidity? Mycorrhizae?
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:D It's all about eating it at just the right time. The carrie can either be smooth and ultra delicious or the taste and texture of vomit, depending on cultural conditions and stage of ripeness. There's not much of an in between.
Fruit Punch (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Lemon Zest (YESSS - Har is the man!)
M-4 (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Orange Essence (YESSS - Har is the man!)
Carrie (You are dead to me.)
So what you're saying is that if there were an in between it would taste like delicious vomit? :P
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I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
I have both. They are very vigorous. I've hit them with a PGR which helps shorten internodes.
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Mark what is PGR?
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y? Because the branches have more of a tendency to droop when they get long?
I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
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y? Because the branches have more of a tendency to droop when they get long?
I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
Orange Sherbet trees tend to be more compact and less vigorous than LZ in my experience, produce more consistently and the fruit is much more resistant to MBBS.
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Mark what is PGR?
Mark knows all the fancy chords. This one seems to have started with marijuana growers.
PGR must be this:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=PGR+fertilizer&go=Search&qs=ds&form=QBRE (https://www.bing.com/search?q=PGR+fertilizer&go=Search&qs=ds&form=QBRE)
Are Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs) Safe? | Planet Natural
https://www.planetnatural.com/plant-growth-regulators (https://www.planetnatural.com/plant-growth-regulators)
Note: In the last couple years, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has decided that naturally derived liquid kelp and seaweed products must be registered as plant growth regulators (PGR). The designation seems odd to us. After all, we’ve been using kelp fertilizers on …
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Mark what is PGR?
Mark knows all the fancy chords. This one seems to have started with marijuana growers.
PGR must be this:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=PGR+fertilizer&go=Search&qs=ds&form=QBRE (https://www.bing.com/search?q=PGR+fertilizer&go=Search&qs=ds&form=QBRE)
I think he used paclobutrazol like many many mangofarmers do. But you should use it after the mangotree has given fruit.
Are Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs) Safe? | Planet Natural
https://www.planetnatural.com/plant-growth-regulators (https://www.planetnatural.com/plant-growth-regulators)
Note: In the last couple years, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has decided that naturally derived liquid kelp and seaweed products must be registered as plant growth regulators (PGR). The designation seems odd to us. After all, we’ve been using kelp fertilizers on …
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Interesting. Both of mine (grafted to a old glenn) grow with incredible vigor. I remember Walter's tree being huge as well. Wonder if there is some rootstock influence there.
y? Because the branches have more of a tendency to droop when they get long?
I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
Orange Sherbet trees tend to be more compact and less vigorous than LZ in my experience, produce more consistently and the fruit is much more resistant to MBBS.
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Interesting. Both of mine (grafted to a old glenn) grow with incredible vigor. I remember Walter's tree being huge as well. Wonder if there is some rootstock influence there.
y? Because the branches have more of a tendency to droop when they get long?
I wonder what the main differences are between LZ and Orange Sherbet. I remember Har tasting it and liking it last summer.
On their best days , LZ is sweeter. But I like orange sherbet as a tree much better.
Orange Sherbet trees tend to be more compact and less vigorous than LZ in my experience, produce more consistently and the fruit is much more resistant to MBBS.
Probably because they were topworks, although we do have two top-worked Orange Sherbets that haven’t been too bad for their rate of growth.
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Yep, great resource and a humble man. After losing 2 of 3 large branches of Orange Sherbet attached at the same point on the trunk of a cocktail tree Har pointed out that it's too much weight bearing for such a single point. Alternate branching is the only way to go on mango.
To be honest I haven't really tasted a bad mango coming out of Florida whether I grew it or ordered a box from Alex year after year. I also LOVE Glenn which bought from PIN. I have a graft/branch of Fruit Punch on it.
I know these are Har's faves but there's lots good ones like Sweet Tart and Pineapple Pleasure too.
My first Glenn. The super sweet almost nauseating tropical aroma that comes from this fruit is unreal. Had to move it away from my computer it's so strong. Great texture and taste.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hQPNmKPw/Glenn-Fruit-July24.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQPNmKPw)
Mark
Where do you get mangoes from? Who is this Alex guy lol
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Mark what is PGR?
Plant growth regulator. I use paclobutrazol. Just ran out of Bonzi, bought another brand. http://www.clo2india.net.in/paclobutrazol-for-vegetables-fruits-1816648.html (http://www.clo2india.net.in/paclobutrazol-for-vegetables-fruits-1816648.html)
It has been and is currently applied to veggies and fruits in other countries to increase yields or quality and induce tree compaction. Only approved for use on ornementals in the U.S., which is pretty stupid. Aussies always apply paclo to their avocado orchards, Indians to their mango orchards, etc.
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX5QBxRg/Paclo-Pro.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX5QBxRg)
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Where do you get mangoes from? Who is this Alex guy lol
You are kidding? https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/shop (https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/shop)
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Where do you get mangoes from? Who is this Alex guy lol
You are kidding? https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/shop (https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/shop)
100% serious
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I want to see a Har top 10 annona video next!
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
I agree with HAR love Carries but is any Mango tougher to pick correctly?
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I want to see a Har top 10 annona video next!
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
I agree with HAR love Carries but is any Mango tougher to pick correctly?
For me, Mallika is the hardest to pick.
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Have you tried picking Mallika when the color STARTS to break towards yellow? If I pick when the shoulder has some yellow and give them a week to 10 days they are great. If they are more than 25% yellow when picked they can sometimes have some carrot overtones. One year I picked some later that were over 75% yellow. After a couple days on table they actually tasted like orange creamsicles. Only in that one instance have I ever tasted citrus/vanilla flavor from that variety.
If you pick them near fully colored they are 50-50 might taste fine or may have the mango death funky flavor.
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I want to see a Har top 10 annona video next!
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
I agree with HAR love Carries but is any Mango tougher to pick correctly?
For my Carrie tree once I see they grow good width at the shoulders along the stem, they are good to go. Also, if you are able to reach and bend the mango up 90 degrees they should fall off when ready. Which is not the case with others like peach cobbler which was nearly impossible for me to figure out how to pick last year.
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For me, Mallika is the hardest to pick.
Taste like a carrot to me. It now hosts Zill varieties.
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I did mean to include Pineapple Pleasure on this list. Forgot--- probably because I have tasted it only two or three times--- it usually doesn't fruit well.
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I did mean to include Pineapple Pleasure on this list. Forgot--- probably because I have tasted it only two or three times--- it usually doesn't fruit well.
But is that it, Har? Only nine varieties?
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For me, Mallika is the hardest to pick.
Taste like a carrot to me. It now hosts Zill varieties.
I have had a few like that. But if properly picked, I think it is as good as any of the new Zill varieties.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Whoa! Really, Alex?
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Got a source for some of dat good ol camel dung? ;D I thought PIN was kidding including it in their description.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Got a source for some of dat good ol camel dung? ;D I thought PIN was kidding including it in their description.
Zoo Miami. Maybe Palm Beach Zoo as well.
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I did mean to include Pineapple Pleasure on this list. Forgot--- probably because I have tasted it only two or three times--- it usually doesn't fruit well.
Har, it would be great to see a video of supremely delicious Mangos that are also productive and disease resistant.
Simon
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I did mean to include Pineapple Pleasure on this list. Forgot--- probably because I have tasted it only two or three times--- it usually doesn't fruit well.
Har, it would be great to see a video of supremely delicious Mangos that are also productive and disease resistant.
Simon
Ha! Maybe no such thing. On the list I see only 2 that might qualify. PKM and OE? We might have to settle for "Almost Supremely Delicious, but Productive and Disease Resistant!" And for Californians it might be a different group altogether.
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I did mean to include Pineapple Pleasure on this list. Forgot--- probably because I have tasted it only two or three times--- it usually doesn't fruit well.
Har, it would be great to see a video of supremely delicious Mangos that are also productive and disease resistant.
Simon
Brahm kai meu is very disease resistant i can tell...i grow these tree's and they look like coming out of a japanese factory, everything is perfect on them. I have grown loads of other varieties as well and they always had many issues and never had perfect leaves like BKM.
But i still have to eat this mango, when i pruned this tree it smelled really good, strong complicated mango smell so i have high hopes for it. If only it would fruit more easy.
Lately i have many small bee's on the new flushes of my keo sawoei mango, the bee's must really like them for some reason. The BKM tree's is next to it and flushing but the bee's won't go to that one...both are good green mango varieties so i wonder what the bee's can smell.
Ha! Maybe no such thing. On the list I see only 2 that might qualify. PKM and OE? We might have to settle for "Almost Supremely Delicious, but Productive and Disease Resistant!" And for Californians it might be a different group altogether.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Agreed, although I find it even more comparable to Orange Sherbet, in fact almost identical
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Agree. However, they tend to be very finicky, and flavor can be all over the map.
A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Agreed, although I find it even more comparable to Orange Sherbet, in fact almost identical
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Whoa! Really, Alex?
Mallika is a hybrid between Neelam and Dasheri, but it really doesn’t taste like Neelam at all. It inherited its flavor from the Dasheri which is known for having that citrus component.
Dasheri is originally from northern India in the area of Lucknow. A theory that Ive mentioned here before and I think may hold merit is that the citrus-flavored Burmese/Lemon Meringue mangos And the Dasheri May share a common ancestor. Not only is their flavor similar, but they have similar shape, color, and another interesting trait: you may have noticed before that Lemon Meringue And Lemon Zest Can get these green splotches in their pigmentation when they ripen. One of the mangos that also gets that same green splotch pigmentation? Mallika.
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That's supremely interesting about Mallika. I grew it for the first time in Coconut Creek in 1998. And then again in about 2015 in Deerfield Beach. The flavor was different in the two locations.
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Lemon Zest flushed early this year, and all the new vegetation looks pretty sad in the cold, wet weather. Mallika did not flush, but its hardened-off growth looks excellent despite the cold, wet weather.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Whoa! Really, Alex?
Mallika is a hybrid between Neelam and Dasheri, but it really doesn’t taste like Neelam at all. It inherited its flavor from the Dasheri which is known for having that citrus component.
Dasheri is originally from northern India in the area of Lucknow. A theory that Ive mentioned here before and I think may hold merit is that the citrus-flavored Burmese/Lemon Meringue mangos And the Dasheri May share a common ancestor. Not only is their flavor similar, but they have similar shape, color, and another interesting trait: you may have noticed before that Lemon Meringue And Lemon Zest Can get these green splotches in their pigmentation when they ripen. One of the mangos that also gets that same green splotch pigmentation? Mallika.
Since PPK lacks the green spotting, and the LZ has a flavor more similar to Mallika, doesn't that imply that Mallika may be the pollen parent of LZ?
Time for some mango daytime TV.
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I’ve tried mallika before, it’s an excellent mango. It was so good I have a tree. There are people that seem to hate it but that’s true of all things. I’ve picked it when tree ripened and stored it to ripen and both turned out good mangos.
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A properly ripened Mallika is very similar in flavor to Lemon Zest.
Whoa! Really, Alex?
Mallika is a hybrid between Neelam and Dasheri, but it really doesn’t taste like Neelam at all. It inherited its flavor from the Dasheri which is known for having that citrus component.
Dasheri is originally from northern India in the area of Lucknow. A theory that Ive mentioned here before and I think may hold merit is that the citrus-flavored Burmese/Lemon Meringue mangos And the Dasheri May share a common ancestor. Not only is their flavor similar, but they have similar shape, color, and another interesting trait: you may have noticed before that Lemon Meringue And Lemon Zest Can get these green splotches in their pigmentation when they ripen. One of the mangos that also gets that same green splotch pigmentation? Mallika.
Since PPK lacks the green spotting, and the LZ has a flavor more similar to Mallika, doesn't that imply that Mallika may be the pollen parent of LZ?
Time for some mango daytime TV.
PPK does get the green spotting actually, although LZ seems to get it more.
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Who needs to worry about coronavirus when you can eat some fruit, that recently received a 12 or 24 hour REI pesticide spray.
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Who needs to worry about coronavirus when you can eat some fruit, that recently received a 12 or 24 hour REI pesticide spray.
??
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Even the OMRI listed pesticides have a 12+ hour REI. Good old copper oxide (Nordox 75 for example) has a reentry interval of 12 hours. We use copper as cookware, jewelry, plumbing, etc, so it seems a bit overboard to have a 12 hour REI for copper oxide. However, I think the EPA is a bit over conservative with regards to pesticides.
Who needs to worry about coronavirus when you can eat some fruit, that recently received a 12 or 24 hour REI pesticide spray.
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We are a country of fearful neurotics and hypochondriacs. Here's a quote from a SoCal avocado growing group I belong to:
"I've heard a few people mention white washing the bark of your tree and I don't understand why one would need to paint a tree with a chemical based paint? I want all the trees in my yard to be 100% organic. so tell me what white washing is and why it's important? Is it important? I live in Claremont California."
My response:
$%*(@#@$$, so you've run a lab analysis on such painted tissue and found levels of "chemicals" exceed EPA standards, what exactly are those chemicals? 95% of the organic/natural movement is a joke based on fear and ignorance. Having said that I have been pushing a spray of kaolin clay wettable powder not because I'm a fearful neurotic but because it's cheap and a helluva lot easier to mix and apply. https://www.groworganic.com/products/surround-25-lb... (https://www.groworganic.com/products/surround-25-lb...)
Don't know if Captan would help but it has no REI interval posted on our Aggie vineyard pesticide list.
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Har's List of Essential Oddities. (I really like Dot and would like to try Coconut Cream and Ice Cream.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G-fvKm5BUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G-fvKm5BUk)
I'm bumping this up so y'all can see the new video.
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Har's latest.
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:D Yah, it's gotten overboard. What I find humorous is that Bruce Ames (previous chair of biochem at Berkeley) proved that organic produce is higher in carcinogens than conventional back in the 80's.
Life is full of pendulum swings. In the 40's, 50's and 60's the general public was enamored with lab created foods, pesticides, etc, the mindset being that technology could improve on nature. All sorts of nutty pesticides were used back then, with reckless abandon. (My step-father grew up on a farm during this time period and ended up coming down with cancer in his 60's.)
Then, in the 60's and 70's a small group of folks began pushing against the pesticides of the day (eg, Silent Spring), and in the 80's the organic movement started to rise. Then, somewhere in the 2000's I guess, organic went mainstream and really took root in the millenial generation, who I think viewed it as some sort of counter-cultural ideal.
The EPA has come a long way since the 1960s, and modern pesticides (as well as worker protocols) render their use quite safe. But, the pendulum has swung very hard to the opposite extreme, where the mainstream mindset is that anything produced in a lab is harmful (and contrariwise anything originating in nature is good / beneficial).
The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle of two extremes. However, it's human nature to polarize on extremes.
We are a country of fearful neurotics and hypochondriacs. Here's a quote from a SoCal avocado growing group I belong to:
"I've heard a few people mention white washing the bark of your tree and I don't understand why one would need to paint a tree with a chemical based paint? I want all the trees in my yard to be 100% organic. so tell me what white washing is and why it's important? Is it important? I live in Claremont California."
My response:
$%*(@#@$$, so you've run a lab analysis on such painted tissue and found levels of "chemicals" exceed EPA standards, what exactly are those chemicals? 95% of the organic/natural movement is a joke based on fear and ignorance. Having said that I have been pushing a spray of kaolin clay wettable powder not because I'm a fearful neurotic but because it's cheap and a helluva lot easier to mix and apply. https://www.groworganic.com/products/surround-25-lb... (https://www.groworganic.com/products/surround-25-lb...)
Don't know if Captan would help but it has no REI interval posted on our Aggie vineyard pesticide list.
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I'd say anything that conserves soil and soil health, forests, aquifers, and ocean health is good even though it's not a perfect world. I hope you guys, Jeff and Mark, don't consider that a radical idea. (Or call me a freakin' radical, whatever.) Hey, how about Har's List of Essential Oddities?
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I think we're in agreement there. But, latex paint on an avocado tree certainly isn't mutually exclusive with those goals :-).
I'd say anything that conserves soil and soil health, forests, aquifers, and ocean health is good even though it's not a perfect world. I hope you guys, Jeff and Mark, don't consider that a radical idea. (Or call me a freakin' radical, whatever.) Hey, how about Har's List of Essential Oddities?
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I'd say anything that conserves soil and soil health, forests, aquifers, and ocean health is good even though it's not a perfect world. I hope you guys, Jeff and Mark, don't consider that a radical idea. (Or call me a freakin' radical, whatever.) Hey, how about Har's List of Essential Oddities?
It’s good to have our own beliefs but the end goals should be the health of the people and the planet we live on. Sadly, it never is. Now about the carrie mango, so much conflicting information, half seems to like it and half don’t.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G-fvKm5BUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G-fvKm5BUk)
Did you miss this, Tommy? THE ESSENTIAL ODDITIES.
Jeff, I'm okay with latex paint on avocado tree trunks. (Try to keep it off the leaves!)
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:D Yah, it's gotten overboard. What I find humorous is that Bruce Ames (previous chair of biochem at Berkeley) proved that organic produce is higher in carcinogens than conventional back in the 80's.
That is funny! ;D
Excellent, solid points you made.
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I'd say anything that conserves soil and soil health, forests, aquifers, and ocean health is good ....
Of course. It's the extreme wackos and their lawyering whores I have a problem with.
This membership is in the 1,000's and I bet there is not one person who has spent the money and time it takes putting in cover crops and legumes 2 years in a row. I have, on 14 acres. FWIW my aquifer's output is plentiful and my #1 pump/well is shallow set at 120'. The well is capable of producing a whopping 150 gals/hr. if need be.
Elbon rye, cut it at 6' tall.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NLGz0ZFr/Rye-House.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NLGz0ZFr)
Hairy vetch is flowering now. That legume and the sweet clover I planted have been reseeding since 2004.
(https://i.postimg.cc/phrcsngJ/Hairy-Vetch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phrcsngJ)
Grafted last year if all goes well will be eating Glenn, Orange Sherbet, Fruit Punch and Pineapple Pleasure in a few months. My mangos are about golf size now We recently had a low of 46F which has induced my Pinkerton avocado tree to bloom the second time this year.
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That all sounds fantastic, Mark. And I respect you greatly for being a good steward of your land.
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That all sounds fantastic, Mark. And I respect you greatly for being a good steward of your land.
Thank you. Didn't come cheap either. I hired a farmer to disc, sow, and then drag the tilled soil to cover the seed. You can't get a farmer to unload a large tractor off the trailer for less than $500.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvHFYMtQ/Legumes.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvHFYMtQ)
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That all sounds fantastic, Mark. And I respect you greatly for being a good steward of your land.
Thank you. Didn't come cheap either. I hired a farmer to disc, sow, and then drag the tilled soil to cover the seed. You can't get a farmer to unload a large tractor off the trailer for less than $500.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvHFYMtQ/Legumes.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvHFYMtQ)
From what I can see in this photo, your soil looks very fertile. Is the feral pig problem in Texas as bad as I've read?
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I have to say, I like Har's Oddities list more than the Supremely Delicious list. Granted, I haven't tried all on both lists, but Pim Seng Mun and Coconut Cream are two of my top five (I've yet to try a great example of M-4, which could knock Coconut Cream off my list if it lives up to the hype). Has anyone ventured a "romantic" name for M-4? I also really like Madame Francis and Ice Cream and Baptiste.
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I have to say, I like Har's Oddities list more than the Supremely Delicious list. Granted, I haven't tried all on both lists, but Pim Seng Mun and Coconut Cream are two of my top five (I've yet to try a great example of M-4, which could knock Coconut Cream off my list if it lives up to the hype). Has anyone ventured a "romantic" name for M-4? I also really like Madame Francis and Ice Cream and Baptiste.
Yay, finally someone commenting on the Oddities! Thank you, flip.
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Has anyone ventured a "romantic" name for M-4?
Coconut + Cantaloupe = Cocoloupe Pie
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Ha!
Maybe "Coco Loops"?
Or how about "Har" or "Mahdeem"? He should have a mango named after him 😃
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I had nothing to do with the development of any of the Zill varieties.
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Har-fetti? Har's definitely not coconut? We need a poll on this one.
Why should the developer be the namer? Val-Carrie?
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Har-fetti? Har's definitely not coconut? We need a poll on this one.
Why should the developer be the namer? Val-Carrie?
I think the developer should have the right to name what they develop and it should not be named by anyone else unless the developer granted the authority for someone else to name it. Or, enough time has passed and the unnamed variety has been forgotten and then someone renames it and gives the lost variety "life" again.
Another situation where it may be okay to name a variety that you did not develop is if you are only giving it a marketing name for sales such as the Champagne mango or Sweetheart lychee.
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From what I can see in this photo, your soil looks very fertile. Is the feral pig problem in Texas as bad as I've read?
You bet it is. There's a high end leisure ranch not far from me. Owner has several interests like grapes and hog hunting by helicopter. One of our house cleaners told us he got 92 in one day via helicopter. Friend brought me a newly butchered juvenile the other day. Gonna do me some full rack baby back ribs!
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Curious, does Zill or any of the other breeders have a patent (copyright) on their work, new offerings?
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I have to say, I like Har's Oddities list more than the Supremely Delicious list. Granted, I haven't tried all on both lists, but Pim Seng Mun and Coconut Cream are two of my top five (I've yet to try a great example of M-4, which could knock Coconut Cream off my list if it lives up to the hype). Has anyone ventured a "romantic" name for M-4? I also really like Madame Francis and Ice Cream and Baptiste.
The name is up to Zills but I have read some people calling M4 as mounds.
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Curious, does Zill or any of the other breeders have a patent (copyright) on their work, new offerings?
Coconut Cream has an active patent.
There’s a mango that we’ve been very interested in called “Leopold” which isn’t from a breeding project but is patented, which has unfortunately prevented us from obtaining the budwood.