Author Topic: Bisexual Burmese grapes?  (Read 4732 times)

arvind

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Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« on: May 09, 2019, 01:20:04 AM »
Hi I just came across this article from a Thai site which mentioned that there are bisexual Burmese grapes.According to the site in commercial cultivation only grafted bisexual plants are used.In my opinion the article seems quite accurate but I'm still not 100 percent sure.If it's true it would be great and maybe offer some hope for baccaurea lovers out there
https://www.technologychaoban.com/bullet-news-today/article_81529

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 01:43:20 AM »
กะเทย - likely best translated as hermaphrodite in regards to plants.

Articles written by a Dr. of Ag. Science, Doctors of science in Thailand are trustworthy.

Burmese grapes interesting name, but I think people on forum all call by Thai name "Mafai"


arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 01:50:19 AM »
กะเทย - likely best translated as hermaphrodite in regards to plants.
Amazing .so you don't need a male and female tree.a plant bearing hermaphrodite flowers will be sufficient.well that gives us hope

Articles written by a Dr. of Ag. Science, Doctors of science in Thailand are trustworthy.

Burmese grapes interesting name, but I think people on forum all call by Thai name "Mafai"

sunny

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 06:42:42 AM »
Today i got 1 kilo mafai....ate 2 of them and now they are all in the bin..

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 08:56:52 AM »
กะเทย - likely best translated as hermaphrodite in regards to plants.

Articles written by a Dr. of Ag. Science, Doctors of science in Thailand are trustworthy.

Burmese grapes interesting name, but I think people on forum all call by Thai name "Mafai"
Amazing.this gives baccaurea fans like me a hope.i have always wanted to plant them but when all the info I got that it's a plant with male and female flowers on separate plants I decided not to grow them.now I guess I'll get myself a hermaphrodite Burmese grapes plant.problem is here it's hard to find a grafted plant

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2019, 08:59:04 AM »
Today i got 1 kilo mafai....ate 2 of them and now they are all in the bin..
😁 No point planting from seeds unless you are seeking a new variety or cultivar.since you're from Thailand just get a grafted plant

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2019, 01:19:23 PM »
Yes if you are going to grow try order the Hermie Scions to topwork your trees.  If you are on the mainland of Malaysia quite easy to ship over from Southern Thailand, can even mini-bus it over to Penang and other big cities for a few dollars.

I think Sunny's point is that they don't taste good.  I was going to mention that.. but so many lovers of Mafai on this board I bit my tongue.     ;D

Quite a few varieties, but most often cultivated in Thailand (not harvested from wild) is Mafai Rian, I would not purchase again from market.. ever.  Pick from jungle for free?  Yes I would.  It's likely if you want a Hermie it would be Mafai Rian.

In mountains between NST and Krabi quite a few varieties of wild varieties of Mafai in all different colors that I've tried when driving through.

sunny

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 01:22:48 AM »
My mafai were not very sweet but taste was ok...they were small and have many pits...almost nothing to eat. They are smaller than longkong and less sweet...better grow longkong or another fruit.

Now i know why they are so hard to find.

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2019, 10:04:11 AM »
Yes if you are going to grow try order the Hermie Scions to topwork your trees.  If you are on the mainland of Malaysia quite easy to ship over from Southern Thailand, can even mini-bus it over to Penang and other big cities for a few dollars.

I think Sunny's point is that they don't taste good.  I was going to mention that.. but so many lovers of Mafai on this board I bit my tongue.     ;D

Quite a few varieties, but most often cultivated in Thailand (not harvested from wild) is Mafai Rian, I would not purchase again from market.. ever.  Pick from jungle for free?  Yes I would.  It's likely if you want a Hermie it would be Mafai Rian.

In mountains between NST and Krabi quite a few varieties of wild varieties of Mafai in all different colors that I've tried when driving through.
Problem is im in East Malaysia in Borneo island.Here we have a plant similar to Burmese grapes called rambai(baccaurea motleyana).Its also present in southern Thailand and is called mafai farang and I believe it's sweeter than Burmese grapes.Its one of my favorite fruit and most plants are dioecious.Currently it's not being planted in commercial scale and usually found in orchards

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2019, 10:06:13 AM »
My mafai were not very sweet but taste was ok...they were small and have many pits...almost nothing to eat. They are smaller than longkong and less sweet...better grow longkong or another fruit.

Now i know why they are so hard to find.
Well no worries as there are other members in the baccaurea family that is waiting to be consumed.like rambai,tampoi etc

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2019, 06:00:26 PM »
Tampoi I can not find any reference to Hermaphrodite in Thai, but I did not search that much, in Thai referred to as Mafai Kwai (kwai = water buffalo) or Langkae.

searching ลังแข ต้นกระเทย  and มะไฟควาย ต้นกระเทย

How is the taste of this?  I have not found this in Thailand before, but just found out from searching there are some trees in southern Thailand, possibly way farther south than I am near the border of Malaysia.

Rambai also have a lot in my town, but I also would not buy this again, in Thai called "Lamai" or what you mention Mafai-Farang.  Also a quick search of ละไม ต้นกระเทย yields not results, but I need some better search terms I think, or just to talk to the right Dr. of Ag. Science.

Gatery - Hermie, also refers to the Males who want to be females, and internet is talking about that much more than trees. :)

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2019, 01:01:06 AM »
Here we have two types of tampoi of I'm not mistaken.one with yellow flesh and the other white flesh.i have only eaten one variety which is the former and it's sweet without any sourness.yes I also haven't found any reference of the tree being hermaphrodite and it's rarely cultivated.btw why don't you like mafai farang.i think it's a great fruit

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2019, 02:30:10 AM »
pretty simple but picky when comes to "buying" fruits, Lamai is ok, but a lot of work.  Generally I can get Jackfruit and Snakefruit all year round, so that is fall back fruit when Durian and Mango not in season. 

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2019, 09:53:42 AM »
Well that means rambai is sweeter than Burmese grapes.havent tasted  Burmese grapes before.i guess I should rule out cultivating Burmese grapes

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2019, 09:55:03 AM »
My mafai were not very sweet but taste was ok...they were small and have many pits...almost nothing to eat. They are smaller than longkong and less sweet...better grow longkong or another fruit.

Now i know why they are so hard to find.
I guess you're right about that.but longkong in my opinion is kinda hard to grow.prone to disease

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 12:38:45 PM »
a lot more flesh in Rambutan

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 12:41:29 PM »
Well that means rambai is sweeter than Burmese grapes.havent tasted  Burmese grapes before.i guess I should rule out cultivating Burmese grapes

Tye burmese grapes name applied to many Mafai species, better to use scientific name or Thai name.  I think the Hermie Mafai Rian might be worth planting.  Also for any of these can't you just graft male and female scions to the same tree for pollination?

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2019, 04:08:17 PM »
Well that means rambai is sweeter than Burmese grapes.havent tasted  Burmese grapes before.i guess I should rule out cultivating Burmese grapes

Tye burmese grapes name applied to many Mafai species, better to use scientific name or Thai name.  I think the Hermie Mafai Rian might be worth planting.  Also for any of these can't you just graft male and female scions to the same tree for pollination?
From what I know Burmese grapes are baccaurea ramiflora while rambai is baccaurea motleyana.what species is Rian mafai?

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2019, 04:49:55 PM »
Yes I have heard of grafting male and female plants on a rootstock.but haven't seen it being implemented at least in malaysia.maybe it's hard to be done or it has some weakness.btw how do you spell mafai rien in Thai words.i want to search about it on google

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 04:50:27 PM »
a lot more flesh in Rambutan
Well that one I agree

sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 12:30:06 AM »
Yes I have heard of grafting male and female plants on a rootstock.but haven't seen it being implemented at least in malaysia.maybe it's hard to be done or it has some weakness.btw how do you spell mafai rien in Thai words.i want to search about it on google

pretty sure Mafai Rian (Tong)  translates as Golden Coin Mafai, is just a variety of Baccaurea ramiflora lour., a better variety bred for thinner skin, color, etc.

Here is the Thai name:  มะไฟเหรียญทอง  So generally speaking Mafai Rian Tong is Mafai, and other varieties are not scientifically Mafai, but are still called by Mafai.  So that Mafai refers to Baccaurea species as well, such as Mafai Kwai, Mafai Si Daeng, Si Muong (red, purple) etc.  This is Thai for Mafai :  มะไฟ

มะไฟควาย - Mafai Kwai - Baccaurea macrocarpa
มะไฟกา - Mafai Ga - Baccaurea parviflora
มะไฟแดง - Mafai Daeng -  BACCAUREA SCORTECHINII HOOK.F. (same as Mafai Ga?)
มะไฟจำปูลิ่ง - Mafai Jampu Ling - Baccaurea minor
มะไฟลิง - Mafai Ling - Baccaurea polyneura

deep south only:

ละไมป่า - Lamai Pa - Baccaurea bracteata
ละไมลิง - Lamai Ling - Baccaurea javanica
กะดองดอง - Gadongdong - Baccaurea macrophylla
ส้มไฟดิน - Som Fai Din - Baccaurea ptychopyxis

two other Thai ones but not find scientific name, may be another name for one of the varieties above:

มะไฟสีม่วง - Mafai Si Muong - Purple Mafai ??
มะไฟข้าวเหนียวดำ - Mafai Kow Niow Dam - Black Sticky Rice Mafai ??


Credit this website with a lot of the Thai names:  http://my-experimental-farm.blogspot.com/2014/05/blog-post_26.html



sahai1

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 12:37:10 AM »
Seeing as how interesting Mafai and Lamai is, I will keep my eyes open and wallet open for future journeys in the mountains.  Perhaps there is a variety worth the effort.  Snakefruit is a lot of effort too, but don't mind. 

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 05:58:39 AM »
Yes I have heard of grafting male and female plants on a rootstock.but haven't seen it being implemented at least in malaysia.maybe it's hard to be done or it has some weakness.btw how do you spell mafai rien in Thai words.i want to search about it on google

pretty sure Mafai Rian (Tong)  translates as Golden Coin Mafai, is just a variety of Baccaurea ramiflora lour., a better variety bred for thinner skin, color, etc.

Here is the Thai name:  มะไฟเหรียญทอง  So generally speaking Mafai Rian Tong is Mafai, and other varieties are not scientifically Mafai, but are still called by Mafai.  So that Mafai refers to Baccaurea species as well, such as Mafai Kwai, Mafai Si Daeng, Si Muong (red, purple) etc.  This is Thai for Mafai :  มะไฟ

มะไฟควาย - Mafai Kwai - Baccaurea macrocarpa
มะไฟกา - Mafai Ga - Baccaurea parviflora
มะไฟแดง - Mafai Daeng -  BACCAUREA SCORTECHINII HOOK.F. (same as Mafai Ga?)
มะไฟจำปูลิ่ง - Mafai Jampu Ling - Baccaurea minor
มะไฟลิง - Mafai Ling - Baccaurea polyneura

deep south only:

ละไมป่า - Lamai Pa - Baccaurea bracteata
ละไมลิง - Lamai Ling - Baccaurea javanica
กะดองดอง - Gadongdong - Baccaurea macrophylla
ส้มไฟดิน - Som Fai Din - Baccaurea ptychopyxis

two other Thai ones but not find scientific name, may be another name for one of the varieties above:

มะไฟสีม่วง - Mafai Si Muong - Purple Mafai ??
มะไฟข้าวเหนียวดำ - Mafai Kow Niow Dam - Black Sticky Rice Mafai ??


Credit this website with a lot of the Thai names:  http://my-experimental-farm.blogspot.com/2014/05/blog-post_26.html
Amazing.a million thanks for the great site

tongmuan

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2019, 12:25:17 AM »
We bought an orchard about 2.5 years ago and there's a pretty big mafai tree there (planted by the previous owner) which hasn't yet fruited. The tree has no obvious signs of grafting.

This year was the first year that we spotted male flowers near the leaves, similar to the second picture on this page:
https://dokmaidogma.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/burmese-grape/

I was watching the tree for female flowers almost every day for several weeks after that, but they didn't appear.

How likely is it for hermaphrodite trees to not fruit one year and only have male flowers the next? Is there still a chance that this is not a totally male tree?

arvind

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Re: Bisexual Burmese grapes?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2019, 08:11:02 AM »
We bought an orchard about 2.5 years ago and there's a pretty big mafai tree there (planted by the previous owner) which hasn't yet fruited. The tree has no obvious signs of grafting.

This year was the first year that we spotted male flowers near the leaves, similar to the second picture on this page:
https://dokmaidogma.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/burmese-grape/

I was watching the tree for female flowers almost every day for several weeks after that, but they didn't appear.

How likely is it for hermaphrodite trees to not fruit one year and only have male flowers the next? Is there still a chance that this is not a totally male tree?
According to the Thai member above some plants especially the Rian cultivar bears a hermaphrodite flowers.doubt the plant will bear a female flower.better get a grafted plant in my opinion