Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Temperate Fruit & Orchards => Temperate Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Triloba Tracker on May 08, 2015, 06:08:38 PM

Title: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 08, 2015, 06:08:38 PM
Well, since becoming totally smitten by passionfruit while in Taiwan last October, I became dead-set on growing Passiflora incarnata.

It also helps that it's the official wildflower of my home state, Tennessee.

So I ordered 2 plants from Logee's - one white variety and one purple, so that I could save on shipping costs versus trying to get 2 genetically different plants from 2 different nurseries.

The white maypop arrived about half the height of the purple, and it had 2 main shoots versus 1 on the purple. The purple tripled in height over the course of a few weeks, but the white one barely grew a couple inches (in the same conditions).

Logee's is subsequently sending me a replacement - not holding my breath. My backup plan is to dig up a wild plant as soon as I can find one.

I constructed a trellis based on recommendations in my post "Passionfruit Trellis Ideas." It consists of 2 metal posts about 6-7 feet apart and galvanized wires running across, one at about 2 feet from the ground, and the second at about 4 feet.

I did not want the vines to spread all over my yard, so I dug 2 holes about 12 inches in diameter and 10-12 inches deep. I got 2 plastic straight-sided grower pots, cut the bottoms out, and put them in the holes with hopes that it would contain the runners.

I tried to just backfill with native soil, but it was difficult to work with - pretty heavy clay. So I found a decomposed tree that had disintegrated into peat moss-like loose compost, mixed with actual compost of my own, and maybe some other junk, and planted the vines in that.

Within a day or 2, something had nibbled the topmost leaves off the white maypop. And just this morning I discovered that something had rooted around quite aggressively and essentially destroyed the white vine. So good thing Logee's is sending me a replacement anyway!

My next step is to decide the best way to protect the plants. Thinking of hardware cloth or chicken wire on the ground around them to prevent digging, and/or a chicken wire fence around the entire area.

I've trapped 3 possums in a week so far...thinking they will be having a field day on any fruit I am able to get.

Any and all advice is welcome!

(http://s12.postimg.org/47xxp42ux/IMG_5256.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/47xxp42ux/)

(http://s12.postimg.org/4bwcj3xq1/IMG_5257.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4bwcj3xq1/)

(http://s12.postimg.org/rat220tq1/IMG_5258.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rat220tq1/)

(http://s12.postimg.org/4amepovw9/IMG_5259.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4amepovw9/)
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on May 11, 2015, 01:39:53 PM
I haven't checked out their website to see what the species are that you ordered but I don't think they are P. incarnata nor are they winter hardy.

I grow both P. edulis and P. incarnata in my garden (zone 7b Raleigh NC).  Edulis are the purple fruited type and they are kept in pots and moved into the greenhouse for the winter. After 3 years they are finally large enough to fruit which they have this spring for the first time ever. The incarnatas were originally planted in one spot but they now have taken over the yard and pop up in just about every environment. I only weed them out of flowerbeds where they will pose a problem because I like having them around.

There are wild incarnatas (Maypops) in the woods around the house but I have never found fruit on them. The one I grow came from seed I collected in the wild in Arkansas at a highway rest area. I noticed the vines were short (maybe 6 feet) and had been covered with fruit (maybe a dozen on each vine). The ones growing in my garden are still somewhat short for a passionvine and produce more than enough fruit for me to eat. The fruit only has that intense tropical flavor if it is dead ripe and falls off the plant. The seeds have to be black and the outside wrinkly otherwise it has no flavor.

Even when people visit from South America and they are touring my garden, they agree that the fruit of these vines taste very similar to the purple fruited ones back home.

I love these plants but most folks think the fruit looks too much like frog's eggs to eat it. Those that I can convince to taste it love it also.

I'm not sure how long it will take the purple ones to ripen but I am definitely moving them up to larger pots in hopes that it will mean more fruit.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 12, 2015, 08:50:10 AM
Interesting that you're growing edulis! I'm not sure I have enough room in the house to overwinter any more plants, so I plan to stick with incarnata for now.

Here is the link to the plants I ordered from Logees. Should be the right thing
http://www.logees.com/maypop-passion-flower-passiflora-incarnata.html (http://www.logees.com/maypop-passion-flower-passiflora-incarnata.html)

I have found very quickly that rabbits love these things. I knew I should've done it sooner but i just now put a chicken wire cylinder around the vine. Rabbits nearly sheared the thing in half. I put a splint made from toothpicks on the stem to see if it will grow back together. So far it appears that it may be working.

My replacement white maypop is scheduled to arrive today.

Now my concern is protecting ripe fruit from possums, of which I have plenty. I may have to build a cage around the entire thing.

TriangleJohn - how do you protect your passionfruits from varmints?

I also plan to look for wild vines to potentially transplant. Friend told me he successfully did so as a kid. I actually haven't seen many of these in the wild but haven't looked too hard either. One vine in our church parking lot actually set 3-4 fruit last summer but didn't get to taste them. They may not have ripened properly either.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Bob407 on May 12, 2015, 10:13:07 AM
I have seen some good producing incarnatas in the brush in Rutherford county but that was years ago. Don shadow has some at Shadow nursery , in Winchester, that are quite prolific. He has a bunch planted right at the entrance, very beautiful flowers.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 12, 2015, 03:14:29 PM
I have seen some good producing incarnatas in the brush in Rutherford county but that was years ago. Don shadow has some at Shadow nursery , in Winchester, that are quite prolific. He has a bunch planted right at the entrance, very beautiful flowers.
I'm from Winchester...I need to get down and pay ol' Don a visit!
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on May 13, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
I would love to say that my two Rat Terriers help out with the varmit control but they are lazy bums and prefer to sleep at night, in my bed, under the blankets! rather than patrol the garden. So far opossums and raccoons have not been a big problem. All I ever see are young ones and everyone seems to prefer the compost pile rather than the fruit. I'm sure that will change as more of the collection gets to fruiting age. In general I have a "show no mercy" policy about any animals coming into my garden or chicken house. I live on the edge of the city and had more wildlife bothering my garden when I lived downtown. My neighborhood doesn't have trash pickup so everyone hauls their trash to a station at the end of the street and I think that it is the lack of human trash that keeps the wildlife numbers low. Deer are another problem but I installed an 8 foot welded wire fence around the entire 1.5 acres and they don't even try to get in anymore.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 19, 2015, 11:33:32 AM
Well, the top half of my purple maypop in the ground did not survive the rabbit attack. It started pushing new growth below the cut, so I just cut the top part off.
The most vigorous regrowth is from pretty low on the stem, so kind of annoying that it'll take that much longer to reach my trellis.
I guess I could nip that lower new growth in hopes the upper growth will accelerate, but I lack the confidence to take that gamble (should I?)

On the white maypop front, I did get the plant from Logee's last Tuesday. The good news is it's much bigger than the first white one I received. The bad news is it looked pretty unhappy from shipping:

(http://s2.postimg.org/s2p90qk2t/IMG_5304.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s2p90qk2t/)

Hard to tell in the picture but leaves kind of curled under and the entire plant rather limp. I watered it with a little KLN solution and it perked up slightly. A week later it does finally seem to be shaking the funk and growing. Hardening it off now and hope to have it in the ground in a week or so.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on June 13, 2015, 11:49:33 AM
Both maypops in the ground and doing well.
Flowers forming on both vines. They have reached and slightly overtaken the first trellis wire.
Something has eaten holes in some of the leaves. No sign of the culprit yet.

(http://s13.postimg.org/wim8f5f1f/IMG_5359.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wim8f5f1f/)
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: greenman62 on July 01, 2015, 03:05:15 PM
Triloba Tracker

ive never heard of a  white incarnata ?
just saw it on Logees website.
i would love to have a cutting once you get going.

I have 3 purple ones at least 2 are clones of each other, maybe all 3.

anyway, mine die every year in winter
and come back in late spring (New Orleans)
by the time thy are large enough to fruit
and time to ripen, its late fall.

interestingly, i always get fruit from them if i leave them in a 3 gallon container
with a 5ft pole for them to climb.

my large plant had 50ft of vines at least the first year and never fruited.
i rarely get fruit unless the vine is 3yrs old, or, the root system is contained.
if the plant knows it can multiply itself by suckers, then it will send out roots all over
and never flower.
if contained, the only way it can procreate is through seeds (fruit)

next year, i will put some 2x6 - 8 footers, 6 inches deep to contain the roots
for the one in ground.

also...
the fruit takes a while to ripen.
it will feel almost hollow and very light, like its bad (its not)
dont pick, unless it falls off, or comes off with a light touch.

i just use a plastic bag around the fruit and piece of string to tie it.
The only thing i have to worry about, are squirrels and rats though.

(http://s24.postimg.org/heiotzxzl/pass.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/heiotzxzl/)

(http://s1.postimg.org/q5q1r4p2z/pass.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q5q1r4p2z/)
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 04, 2015, 11:41:01 AM
i'd be happy to send you a cutting at some point.
Here are some pictures of my flowers:

(http://s21.postimg.org/8zo36w977/IMG_5441.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8zo36w977/)

(http://s21.postimg.org/5u3hgoqkz/IMG_5447.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5u3hgoqkz/)

I have 2 fruits forming on the white vine, but the purple vine seems to be using most of its energy for foliar growth. It's only produced a couple of blooms versus 6 or so on the white vine. However, the purple vine has a dozen or more buds, they just seem to be developing slowly. This could be due to the fact that somehow the vine was severed about 2 feet above ground a few weeks ago (this is actually the second time this vine got hacked - the first was by a varmint). So it's now branched laterally along the first wire, and the vertical leader has now reached the top wire.

About a week ago I top-dressed the vines with a layer of homemade compost and cow manure. I may have to expand my trellis - looks like they're going to overtake it.

Coincidentally I was recently spraying some Roundup in a spot near these vines. As I was surveying the area a few days later, to my surprise and dismay, I spotted 2 wild maypop vines among the weeds. DRAT! they took a hit for sure but don't seem to be dead. They may be done for this season, though.
Title: Re: Maypop Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 13, 2015, 11:54:54 AM
At this point across my 2 vines, I have a total of 4 fruits set - 3 on the white vine and one on the Purple.

I was really excited a few weeks ago when it seemed like every flower was being pollinated (by bees, not me). But since then, I've had dismal fruit set.

The flowers are constantly visited by bumble bees but I'm still not getting fruit set. I have also hand- cross-pollinated a few and still no luck.

Do maypops (or passiflora in general) have a "self-sterility" switch that somehow they flip to prevent additional fruit set, if it thinks it can't support it? or maybe because these are young vines (just put them in the ground in May), they are not capable of a high fruit set?

Just kind of frustrating to have all these blooms (and boy, do I have them) and no fruit.....
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 13, 2015, 04:18:20 PM
At this point across my 2 vines, I have a total of 4 fruits set - 3 on the white vine and one on the Purple.

I was really excited a few weeks ago when it seemed like every flower was being pollinated (by bees, not me). But since then, I've had dismal fruit set.

The flowers are constantly visited by bumble bees but I'm still not getting fruit set. I have also hand- cross-pollinated a few and still no luck.

Do maypops (or passiflora in general) have a "self-sterility" switch that somehow they flip to prevent additional fruit set, if it thinks it can't support it? or maybe because these are young vines (just put them in the ground in May), they are not capable of a high fruit set?

Just kind of frustrating to have all these blooms (and boy, do I have them) and no fruit.....

<open mouth, insert foot>

Never underestimate the power of Google. I found the following fascinating information from the book "Landscaping with Fruit" by Lee Reich:

"Maypop flowers need cross-pollination to set fruit, but even when pollinated, not all flowers will set fruit. That's because on every plant some flowers, although having male and female parts, are functionally male. Functional males are so either because their female parts are held upwards out of the way of insect visitors or because they have atrophied. Throughout the season, a maypop plant adjusts the types of flowers it has according to growing conditions. As more fruits set or light becomes limited, fewer perfect flowers are produced. An increasing percentage of flowers are male as the season progresses, unless no fruits have set already."

Frustrating but so biologically awesome. The book also contends that hand-pollination produces "highest quality" fruits and results in at best 50% fruit set.

Pretty impressed with that book based on this useful information.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 14, 2015, 04:49:09 PM
I have most of Lee Reich's books - I'll have to look for that chapter.

At this point of the summer I have fruit on three types of passionvines in my garden. The P. edulis (purple fruit, grown from seed) has a couple of fruit, one of which has ripened and had a nice rich flavor. The P. incarnata that I mentioned earlier is in full bloom and I see fruits forming. And surprise surprise a small potted 'Lady Margaret' hybrid (Passiflora incarnata crossed with Passiflora coccinea) has one small fruit on it. All are supposed to be edible so I will taste and see how they are.

After reading your comments on container growing versus in the ground - I think I am going to set up an area in the garden to sink large pots for my wild collected P. incarnata's. I need a way to make harvesting the fruit easier so some sort of trellis with the plants in large sunken pots should work. Out of all of them that I grow these guys have the best flavor.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on July 14, 2015, 09:47:14 PM
Interesting on the reduced good flowers late in the season. I wonder if there were actual recorded trials for this. Not that I have any better information.

My maypop had pretty good fruit set without manual pollination. More than 50% I would say. Insects probably helped there. Fruit set was generally better at the peak of the season for me since there were more flowers to attract more insects. Early and late season weren't as good. Fewer flowers...
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 14, 2015, 09:56:50 PM
I think I am going to set up an area in the garden to sink large pots for my wild collected P. incarnata's. I need a way to make harvesting the fruit easier so some sort of trellis with the plants in large sunken pots should work. Out of all of them that I grow these guys have the best flavor.

Oh wow - your incarnata's have the best flavor of your Passiflora? That's encouraging!

Yes - good luck with your experiment sinking pots. Time will tell how it works for me.

 I am now trying to figure out what "growing conditions" I have going on that may be contributing to the preponderance of "functionally male" flowers I am seeing.

In fact, 3 blooms opened on my purple vine today and all of them had shrunken/shriveled/atrophied pistils. GRRRR

I spoke to one maypop grower who suggested maybe it was lack of water. But various internet sources i've read have mentioned maypop doesn't like overly moist conditions. Perhaps, however, I am overestimating the water retention of the soil.
They are getting at least 6 hours of direct sun, I'd say. The presence of many flowers makes me think sun is not the issue.
I've added, over time, a little 7-9-5 organic fertilizer, compost, manure, and mulch.

The white vine has put on virtually no vegetative growth over the last 3 weeks (but it's supporting 3 fruits). The purple vine has doubled in linear area in the past month, but it's not going nuts either (the same grower I spoke with mentioned vines growing 30 feet in a season!).
Perhaps all of this is just because the plants are very young, not established. They just got in the ground in May....
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 14, 2015, 09:58:23 PM
Interesting on the reduced good flowers late in the season. I wonder if there were actual recorded trials for this. Not that I have any better information.

My maypop had pretty good fruit set without manual pollination. More than 50% I would say. Insects probably helped there. Fruit set was generally better at the peak of the season for me since there were more flowers to attract more insects. Early and late season weren't as good. Fewer flowers...

thanks for the info! I have tons of bees visiting the flowers but am way below 50% fruit set. Must be something making them unhappy (?) OR they are just too young.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 18, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
In my zone 7b garden the P. incarnata's have the best flavor and I have only the fruit from plants grown from wild collected seeds from one spot - all the native ones growing around my yard do not set fruit. When I have traveled in Latin America I have tasted really good passionfruit that was much much much richer in flavor. Parcha in Puerto Rico was really good and Maracuja in Ecuador was the best of the best. Even if I could keep those species alive here in Raleigh my experience with P. edulis leads me to think that the flavor would not be the same. It might be the soil. It might be the temperatures or the humidity. It could also be the long summer days (doesn't happen in the tropics) - who knows.

I tend to think the reason they call them Maypop is because no matter where you plant them, in the future they "may pop" up over here or over there, there doesn't seem to be a reason where they show up. In my one acre garden they end up in just about every environment - sun or shade, dark rich soil or gravel or clay, wet or dry. They do best around my blueberries, for whatever that's worth.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 18, 2015, 04:58:19 PM
Thanks for the info.

Triangle - how long have you noticed it taking for fruits to reach maturity?

The Lee Reich book says 2-3 months.

The fruits on my white vine have only been around about 3 weeks - 4 weeks tops - and they are starting to wrinkle and soften. I'm afraid these are dying, not ripening - or is Reich incorrect?

Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 19, 2015, 01:10:04 PM
I think they take a couple of months to ripen. I seem to remember September being the month I normally start eating them. Because my vines are growing all over the garden (which is full of long rows of various fruiting bushes) I don't always stay on top of the passion fruits. I usually see them lying on the ground when I mow the grass strips running between the rows. I did notice a few thumb tip sized fruits forming this weekend.

I also think that they only seem to make fruit after the summer equinox. I think the fruits forming now take a while to ripen but the fruits formed later seem to ripen quicker so that everybody gets ripe by first frost in late October/early November.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 19, 2015, 03:49:13 PM
I think they take a couple of months to ripen. I seem to remember September being the month I normally start eating them. Because my vines are growing all over the garden (which is full of long rows of various fruiting bushes) I don't always stay on top of the passion fruits. I usually see them lying on the ground when I mow the grass strips running between the rows. I did notice a few thumb tip sized fruits forming this weekend.

I also think that they only seem to make fruit after the summer equinox. I think the fruits forming now take a while to ripen but the fruits formed later seem to ripen quicker so that everybody gets ripe by first frost in late October/early November.

Makes sense.....i think mine were just wrinkling/softening due to the heat or something. I went out this morning and they were firm and taught. I do think one of them may be croaking, as it's started to change colors and has stopped growing.

In your experience, how much water do these vines like? I can't tell if mine are getting too much or too little.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 20, 2015, 02:39:49 PM
They only seem to suffer our dry periods if they are out in full blazing hot sun. If they are growing around other bushes or in dappled light they never seem to have any problems with water. I have the P. edulis and the hybrids in pots and I know they sometimes dry out and I've never seen them wilt.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Delvi83 on July 30, 2015, 08:57:13 AM
Did it bear fruits? how do they taste? How if compared to P.edulis? Somewhere I read that also P.caroluea are edible, i tried, but  I spit them....they had a terrible acid and bitter flavour
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 30, 2015, 12:31:06 PM
Did it bear fruits? how do they taste? How if compared to P.edulis? Somewhere I read that also P.caroluea are edible, i tried, but  I spit them....they had a terrible acid and bitter flavour
Hello!
I have 4 fruits right now but I am suspicious of 3 of them....they are darker in color and seem to be stunted. Not sure they will mature.

I've never tasted an incarnata but others here have. I have seen widely variable reports as to their quality.

I was surprised to recently read in Charles Boning's Florida's Best Fruiting Plants: "The fruit of the maypop is not simply edible, but is actually worth eating...It is highly recommended for planting in central and north Florida."

Other sources say the fruit is sour or tart or only good as a juice with sugar.

I have recently found several wild maypops in my area and have taken some cuttings that i'm trying to root. I also plan to dig some up.
I want to try growing some indoors...not sure how that'll go or if they'll flower (would be in indirect light only).
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on July 30, 2015, 07:44:00 PM
My parents scoop the pulp into a blender with some water and honey. The blender breaks the seeds and the meats float to the top, shells to the bottom. It's very good, but I don't remember how tart it was to eat out of the fruit. Less tart than edulis I think.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 30, 2015, 09:25:28 PM
My parents scoop the pulp into a blender with some water and honey. The blender breaks the seeds and the meats float to the top, shells to the bottom. It's very good, but I don't remember how tart it was to eat out of the fruit. Less tart than edulis I think.

Cool....I am on pins and needles waiting to taste one. I'm a little disappointed that mine have set so little fruit despite pretty profuse flowering and constant bee visits.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 02, 2015, 10:01:56 AM
I snapped some photos while out in the garden this morning.

Here is one vine of my P. incarnata loaded with fruit growing in the row of blueberry bushes. These should start ripening by the end of the month. They don't usually get bigger. This species has a large void of air inside so there is often just a tablespoon or so of seeds/jelly in each one. If you wait until they fall off the vine they have an intense sweet-tart flavor.


(http://s14.postimg.org/89nuk5eod/DSCN1201.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/89nuk5eod/)


Here's another shot showing the size next to my hand.


(http://s1.postimg.org/x63990v23/DSCN1202.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x63990v23/)


Here's a fruit from my P. edulis - grown from seed collected from purple store bought fruit (no idea of the variety). These vines are in large pots which I think keeps the fruit small. They turn purple and then I pick them and let them ripen further on the kitchen counter. They are filled with seeds/jelly and they taste good but the flavor is not as intense as my P. incarnata fruit. When I've tasted them in the tropics this type had really strong flavor.


(http://s2.postimg.org/uew5rs5ol/DSCN1200.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/uew5rs5ol/)


And last here are some small fruit on my 'Lady Margaret' hybrid (P. incarnata crossed with P. coccinea). This is the first time growing them so I haven't tasted the fruit yet. I have them in small pots on the patio. Next year I will move them up into larger pots and hope for bigger plants with more fruit.



(http://s2.postimg.org/6k7k75pdx/DSCN1199.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6k7k75pdx/)
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 06, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
Thanks for your post TJ - great pictures - very jealous!

What kind of soil are your incarnatas in? Do you have any in pots and if so, what growing medium are you using? Can you describe your fertilizing regimen, if any?

I've been really disappointed in my maypops so far. Something is just not right with my setup. I'm starting to suspect my buried pot approach and more specifically the medium I put into those pots.
Earlier I thought I had spider mites causing bronzing and other leaf damage, but now I have full-blown chlorosis. I suspect some kind of mineral deficiency or water issue. I think the soil I used may be too heavy (though I only have this issue on one of the 2 vines, which would argue against the soil as the issue)

On a side note, I have begun hunting wild maypops and have found several lately. I have uprooted some and have them indoors rooting-out.

This has got me wondering about grafting maypop - I would like to propagate my white vine. So I have a stupid question - does it make sense to graft a maypop for outdoor planting since it will die completely back each winter? Seems that when it emerges in the spring, it would simply be the rootstock pushing growth and the graft would be lost. Right?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 07, 2015, 09:12:27 AM
I have the same problem with any Passionvine I grow in a pot. I use just regular bagged potting soil. I should probably add some compost. They do seem to be hungry plants. They probably want a dilute fertilizer treatment every week, which is what I do for my citrus trees but for some reason I never think of doing to these guys even though they are near each other. I will say that my P. edulis suffered greatly and then all of a sudden turned around and now look super healthy. I thought they were going to die. Maybe their roots have grown down into the ground through the drain holes in their pots. I won't know until winter when I have to move them into the greenhouse.

As far as the P. incarnatas growing out in the yard - my soil is medium quality, kind of sandy in spots, kind of rich and dark in spots. I cannot determine a rhyme or reason for the spots they pop up in, so I'm not sure if it is soil quality that guides them.

Yes, you're grafted vine would die back and next years growth would revert back to the rootstock. I would be better to try and root cuttings, but I don't know when to do that with passionvines.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 14, 2015, 01:00:18 PM
I have the same problem with any Passionvine I grow in a pot.

Which problem is that, malnutrition/chlorosis?

Thanks again for the info.

I recently found a wild vine on a creek bank that was loaded with fruits. Interestingly, it was in a very shady spot - it might get a few hours of afternoon sun. This contradicts things I've read that suggest it won't flower in shady conditions. It makes me re-think where I have mine planted (full sun).
I am also starting to think these need HEAVY mulching if planted in full sun. Every wild maypop I've seen is growing up out of thick underbrush or very tall/thick pasture grass where the base of the plant is heavily shaded, etc.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on August 15, 2015, 05:15:48 PM
Mine only got morning sun. Exactly half the sky is shaded by a tall tree. It flowered just fine and it still pops up every year and flowers after I stopped wanting to grow it.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Delvi83 on August 17, 2015, 12:38:40 PM
I don't think P. incarnata needs full sun....I'm curious to know the taste of this fruits...may be depends on the cultivars? do they taste sweet?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on August 17, 2015, 04:35:44 PM
Mine tastes like pineapple and banana. More sweet than P. edulis.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 17, 2015, 04:43:05 PM
Mine tastes like pineapple and banana. More sweet than P. edulis.

Wow that's another ringing endorsement of P. incarnata! Makes me anticipate my one big fruit's ripening even more LOL

I still can't believe there are no improved cultivars of this vine. I saw one reference online to someone trying to do it, not sure if it's legit.

New question - any one have experience propagating this species, specifically, via cuttings?
I'm trying a few cuttings and also some shoots with some rhizome tissue. I am struggling with how long to keep the humidity up (currently I have them bagged in clear shopping bags.)
I've read this species can take 3 months to root from cuttings, which makes it seem like bags could result in mold or other issues for that long. I have no experience doing this whatsoever! :p
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 18, 2015, 03:49:02 PM
I collected mine from the wild by gathering seeds and they've always been true to the original form (shorter vines with tons of flowers and large fruit). I'm getting ready to try rooting a bunch of other stuff so I will snip a few of these to see if they root.

There is talk that someone involved in horticulture at some university years ago was trying to develop commercial P. incarnata and also hybrids with P. edulis. With the goal being better flavor, bigger fruit and adding some cold hardiness to P. edulis. He accomplished the crosses but nothing ever happened to his research as far as I know. Local researchers/friends of mine are hoping to find any plants or material he may have left behind. I think he was based at a  school in Florida and that this was many years ago. They mentioned all this when they toured my garden and saw my wimpy collection of passionvines.

Here in Raleigh NC, with NC State, I get toured by hort people all the time and more than once someone that has lived in South America or Mexico just happened to be here in the fall when my vines were dropping fruit and even they remarked that the flavor was just as good as P. edulis back home. My only complaint is that the fruit is never full of juice, the air space inside is too big.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 18, 2015, 04:10:19 PM
That's awesome, TJ.
Thanks for the info. If you find anything out about that orphaned research, keep us posted!

I am doing pretty well I think particularly with uprooted shoots from the wild. The straight cuttings I am less enthusiastic about.
I am starting to think maybe seeds will be easier. I also hope to fully transplant a few wild ones.
I want to plant several around my property in various micro-environments to see how they do.


**Any tips with starting from seed?** Seems pretty straightforward though I've read about soaking in various concoctions and that they require a very warm environment to germinate....

Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on August 19, 2015, 03:21:28 AM
Seeds germinate really well. No special treatment required. Maybe if you get a batch of really old seeds, then treat it with hormone. I got my seeds originally from HorizonHerbs in Oregon.

I used to dig up shoots from the lawn to give away. They worked well but you have to dig deep. I never tried to root cuttings from P. incarnata before.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on August 19, 2015, 08:20:13 PM
I collected the seeds for my Maypops way back in 2005 or '06 so I don't remember if they were tricky. They have certainly spread all over the yard now (which was what I wanted).
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Delvi83 on August 24, 2015, 04:39:38 AM
If better than P. edulis I wonder why it's not commercialized ?!
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 24, 2015, 03:08:24 PM
If better than P. edulis I wonder why it's not commercialized ?!

I think they're saying better than P. edulis in a temperate environment. I think it's been stated that tropically-grown P. edulis are definitely better than P. incarnata. I would expect that, at least.

Also has been mentioned that the per-fruit edible yield is low on P. incarnata.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on August 24, 2015, 08:46:13 PM
Also has been mentioned that the per-fruit edible yield is low on P. incarnata.
Yes, and it requires pollination, unlike some edulis strains.

Also, it is susceptible to caterpillars.

For certain people like my parents, they stay away from edulis because of the "smelly socks" aroma. That's just a matter of taste preference. Now they stay say from all passiflora after eating too many.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on August 24, 2015, 09:21:01 PM
Also has been mentioned that the per-fruit edible yield is low on P. incarnata.
Yes, and it requires pollination, unlike some edulis strains.

Also, it is susceptible to caterpillars.

For certain people like my parents, they stay away from edulis because of the "smelly socks" aroma. That's just a matter of taste preference. Now they stay say from all passiflora after eating too many.
Good point about self-sterility of incarnata.
Funny about your parents not liking the smell of edulis. It is a strong smell for sure. However, I adore the smell - the lack of aroma of incarnata is a bummer for me.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 03, 2015, 09:54:43 AM
Well, Varmints ate the 2 biggest fruits off my white maypop vine.
I went out the other day to find the smallest of the fruits on the ground - a ripe fruit!
I left it on the counter for a few days and it wrinkled up as expected - all was going well.

It had a lovely fragrance - not pungent like an edulis - very fruity and pleasant.

I cut into it today and it was amazing!  Very sweet and flavorful. Virtually no sourness at all except at the very end, after sucking on the goop for several seconds.

So my question is......now that I have seeds, do I need to stratify them? I have read that this is required for Maypop and it makes some sense. But others including folks here have said nothing is required.

What should I do? (if nothing else I will stratify some and not others)
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on September 03, 2015, 12:59:35 PM
I've always sown the seeds in the fall and looked for sprouts the following summer - let winter do the hard work. Sometimes they sprout earlier and sometimes later. There is always a crowd of pots off in the corner of my garden during the winter. Even though I have a greenhouse where I sprout and root all sorts of plants, I find that winter hardy plants do better if allowed to sprout the normal way rather than speed things up in the heated gh - in the end you end up weak plants.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 03, 2015, 02:41:06 PM
I've always sown the seeds in the fall and looked for sprouts the following summer - let winter do the hard work. Sometimes they sprout earlier and sometimes later. There is always a crowd of pots off in the corner of my garden during the winter. Even though I have a greenhouse where I sprout and root all sorts of plants, I find that winter hardy plants do better if allowed to sprout the normal way rather than speed things up in the heated gh - in the end you end up weak plants.

Good to know! So basically you are stratifying outdoors. Makes perfect sense for this temperate species. I am going to play around with it.

I also have about 7 cuttings that seem to be doing great, have already rooted. May plant those out soon or (more likely) let them overwinter outdoors with some protection for the roots.

I'm so excited that the fruit lived up to my hopes....I continue to be amazed that no one is talking about this fruit.

Every ol' timer I talk to about them says "they're terrible!" Lots of education to be done.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 03, 2015, 09:15:19 PM
red letter day - I went to check on my last hanging fruit and it fell off right into my hand.

No 'possum's gonna get that sucker!!! I was so worried i'd lose it before I had time to build some kind of cage for it.

This one's a little bigger than a racquetball and spherical. Already starting to wrinkle a bit on the vine.

Has a wonderful fragrance.....
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on September 04, 2015, 09:42:20 AM
Yep. This winter I'm taking out part of my long blackberry row to make room for a Maypop trellis. All my gardening friends think I am crazy. Which may be true, but not about passionvines.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 04, 2015, 12:34:12 PM
Yep. This winter I'm taking out part of my long blackberry row to make room for a Maypop trellis. All my gardening friends think I am crazy. Which may be true, but not about passionvines.

Lol yep - I have grand plans for a big expansion of maypops in my fledgling garden. I need to figure out why my current vines are not happy though - whether soil, light (not likely) or the bottomless buried pots were the issue.
Can't decide whether to plant straight in ground or try pots again with 5-1-1 mix, or even in mounds.

I have fantasies of a big operation and selling to chefs or at farmers market but doubt that'll come about.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on September 08, 2015, 06:20:05 PM
Those are grand ideas. I made jelly with some of my fruit last year and it took a while to find enough ripe fruit and process it into juice. Even with my super fruitful vines. I think a bigger market would be with the medicinal herb folks. I don't know if it is the dried flowers or leaves or roots but there is a demand for P. incarnata plant parts.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 09, 2015, 04:33:09 PM
I think a bigger market would be with the medicinal herb folks. I don't know if it is the dried flowers or leaves or roots but there is a demand for P. incarnata plant parts.

Yep it's the leaves, stems, and flowers that can be dried and used medicinally. I have tried it myself as a simple herbal tea and it really does seem to induce a restful sleep. Also said to have anti-anxiety effects.

The tea doesn't taste so good by itself, though.

I found that the skin of the ripe fruit has a very interesting taste. Sort of sweet/savory. It reminded me of fried durian chips I tried recently from a Thai market.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Delvi83 on September 10, 2015, 03:03:29 PM
How cold-resistant is Maypop? Is it like P. caraulea?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on September 10, 2015, 06:22:47 PM
How cold-resistant is Maypop? Is it like P. caraulea?
I believe P. cerulea is even more cold-hardy than P. incarnata, but very close. I believe P. incarnata can withstand negative temperatures Fahrenheit. Google can tell you for sure.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Delvi83 on October 24, 2015, 03:41:58 AM
P. caurulea is the hardiest Passiflora.....Maypop is little less hardy !! The main problem is the cold together with wet......in dry winter it will survive lower temperature.
Anyway both will lose their leaves if temperatures drop under 20F..and will start again from the roots in spring
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: JFranco on November 03, 2015, 03:15:53 PM
Hi!

Passiflora incarnata is hardier than passiflora caerulea. It is supposed to die-back to its roots in Autumn. It is a naturally deciduous passiflora in many temperate climates. I have grown them for many years.




(http://s14.postimg.org/66jrehwcd/DSCF0006.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/66jrehwcd/)



(http://s8.postimg.org/e2k0ym5pt/DSCF0610.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e2k0ym5pt/)



(http://s21.postimg.org/sjcxrtmgz/P_incarnata.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/sjcxrtmgz/)

Joćo Franco
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on November 04, 2015, 12:35:13 AM
I managed to find a slew of native passionfruits on a trip to southern Illinois not long ago. The vines were fairly prolific, and I kept a bunch of seeds. I would describe the flavor as tangy and citrus-y,  but quite sweet with a floral note. Very tropical tasting - about the last thing I would expect from a plant growing right next to a soybean field.

If anyone is interested in trying to grow these things, let me know. Maybe we can arrange to trade for something.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: JFranco on November 04, 2015, 04:47:06 AM
Hi!

I am always interested in wild collected seeds! Please send me PM!

Joćo Franco
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on November 04, 2015, 11:07:56 AM
I managed to find a slew of native passionfruits on a trip to southern Illinois not long ago. The vines were fairly prolific, and I kept a bunch of seeds. I would describe the flavor as tangy and citrus-y,  but quite sweet with a floral note. Very tropical tasting - about the last thing I would expect from a plant growing right next to a soybean field.

If anyone is interested in trying to grow these things, let me know. Maybe we can arrange to trade for something.

Good luck with the seeds - let us know how you fare.

There is a lot of inconsistent information on the internet about how to germinate these seeds. Some say to scarify, some say to stratify (not many), etc.

I have several seeds from the one fruit my white vine produced. I am stratifying them until spring. I will probably try scarifying some (though one source I read said this should be done BEFORE stratifying)

We'll see
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: sildanani on December 16, 2015, 02:01:39 AM
I recently germinated several maypop seeds. How many years do they take to fruit?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on December 16, 2015, 02:04:30 AM
I don't remember if it fruits the first year, but definitely by the second year. Make sure you have plants from 2 or more seeds so they can cross pollinate.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on December 16, 2015, 06:41:25 AM
I recently germinated several maypop seeds. How many years do they take to fruit?
Congrats!
Can you describe exactly what you did to germinate them?
Did you stratify and for how long?
Did you scarify?
What medium were they planted in, what conditions etc?
How long did they take to germinate?

As mentioned, there seems to be a dearth of solid info online about this, and what little info there is is contradictory.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: sildanani on December 16, 2015, 02:54:06 PM
I purchased these seeds from Tradewinds fruit about a month ago. I am not sure if they were pre stratified. I kept them in an organic potting soil on a heating pad which is placed on top of a rule with a heater under it. I think that the extra heat really helped. I was also able to germinate a few seeds of Passiflora quadrangularis. They were packed for 2016 so maybe freshness was a success factor?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on December 16, 2015, 05:27:18 PM
I purchased these seeds from Tradewinds fruit about a month ago. I am not sure if they were pre stratified. I kept them in an organic potting soil on a heating pad which is placed on top of a rule with a heater under it. I think that the extra heat really helped. I was also able to germinate a few seeds of Passiflora quadrangularis. They were packed for 2016 so maybe freshness was a success factor?
Interesting! How long did it take to see shoots emerge?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: sildanani on December 17, 2015, 05:29:16 PM
I purchased these seeds from Tradewinds fruit about a month ago. I am not sure if they were pre stratified. I kept them in an organic potting soil on a heating pad which is placed on top of a rule with a heater under it. I think that the extra heat really helped. I was also able to germinate a few seeds of Passiflora quadrangularis. They were packed for 2016 so maybe freshness was a success factor?
Interesting! How long did it take to see shoots emerge?
The seeds sprouted in a little over a month.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on December 27, 2015, 11:17:54 PM
To those of you interested in my So. IL maypops (P. incarnata), I have decided to stratify my seeds for approximately one month before germinating a test batch to assure their viability. I will feel better about sending these out to interested parties once I know that they will sprout. I apologize for not checking up on this website more regularly.

I purchased these seeds from Tradewinds fruit about a month ago. I am not sure if they were pre stratified. I kept them in an organic potting soil on a heating pad which is placed on top of a rule with a heater under it. I think that the extra heat really helped. I was also able to germinate a few seeds of Passiflora quadrangularis. They were packed for 2016 so maybe freshness was a success factor?

I cannot say for certain, but I suspect these seeds were not pre-stratified. Based upon my experience with pre-stratified Pawpaw seeds, pre-stratified seeds are most likely going to be labeled as such and will also be substantially more expensive than non-stratified. In about 3 weeks, I hope to have germinated a few seeds of my own and hope to be able to add to the seemingly depauperate knowledge base on growing these plants. Good luck with your seedlings.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on December 27, 2015, 11:28:28 PM
Thanks, googer. definitely keep us posted. I have a couple weeks until I try to sprout my seeds.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 14, 2016, 08:40:32 PM
After a flash-stratification of five weeks, I have a handful of P. incarnata seeds planted in potting soil on a toasty (~75 F) heating pad. I'll let you know if anything's happened by January 30th.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 14, 2016, 08:54:31 PM
After a flash-stratification of five weeks, I have a handful of P. incarnata seeds planted in potting soil on a toasty (~75 F) heating pad. I'll let you know if anything's happened by January 30th.

Nice! I was actually just reading this thread earlier today and wondering how you were progressing.
What prompted you to sow now? Anything in particular?
I was trying to decide when to sow my seeds. I just installed a Sun Blaze 44 fixture and got a couple heating pads. I didn't want to start the seeds too early since in the wild they are very late emerging.
But not sure that matters.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 14, 2016, 11:39:34 PM
After seeing how easily Sildanani was able to germinate his P. incarnata, I wanted to see if I could get away with only a month of stratification (most plants need 3-4 months). I've got a few folks interested in the seeds I collected and I wanted to make sure that what I've got is even viable and I'm trying to gauge the germination rate. Also, it's something to tide me over until my first batch of Pawpaw seed finishes its stratification at the end of the month.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: sildanani on January 18, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
 I have some updated photos of my seedlings. I am curious of if it would be safe if I plant them in the ground this spring. 7 of the 10 seeds I purchased sprouted. That's a good rate I guess. Btw googer, I am a girl lol. ;D

(http://s23.postimg.org/4zt5x5613/Janurary_2016_036.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4zt5x5613/)
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 18, 2016, 05:17:21 PM
Nice!
I don't see why you couldn't plant them out this Spring. Definitely not until there is zero danger of frost. This is not based on experience, just my thoughts.

I finally sowed 6 seeds I kept from a fruit off my white maypop vine. They have been in the fridge in moist whole sphagnum since September 25.
3 I sowed right out of the fridge and 3 I soaked overnight. I have them in a flat with heating mat. Temp is 77 degrees. Will keep folks posted.

It dawned on me that I don't know what color flowers these will have if they sprout. I only had one white vine so they would've been pollinated by a purple vine ...
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 23, 2016, 05:00:07 PM
Nice!
I don't see why you couldn't plant them out this Spring. Definitely not until there is zero danger of frost. This is not based on experience, just my thoughts.

I finally sowed 6 seeds I kept from a fruit off my white maypop vine. They have been in the fridge in moist whole sphagnum since September 25.
3 I sowed right out of the fridge and 3 I soaked overnight. I have them in a flat with heating mat. Temp is 77 degrees. Will keep folks posted.

It dawned on me that I don't know what color flowers these will have if they sprout. I only had one white vine so they would've been pollinated by a purple vine ...

Wellllll those seeds i planted got cooked by the heat mat I think. I went back and measured the soil and it was something like 95 degrees. I am gonna keep these around to see what happens but my expectations are low.

I am starting some new seeds today.

Question for sildanani and googer - did you pre-soak your seeds?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 23, 2016, 09:57:54 PM
Wellllll those seeds i planted got cooked by the heat mat I think. I went back and measured the soil and it was something like 95 degrees. I am gonna keep these around to see what happens but my expectations are low.

I am starting some new seeds today.

Question for sildanani and googer - did you pre-soak your seeds?

That's crazy, the exact same thing happened to me. I left the heating mat at what I thought was a reasonable setting overnight and woke up to find my maypops in a sauna. I've left them in the container but I seriously doubt that they're viable so I too am starting from scratch.

I did another batch of 10 - 5 unsoaked and 5 soaked. Haven't bothered scarifying them as I've read that might make the seeds susceptible to mold and many sources say they don't need it. We'll see what happens.

I bought a heat mat with a dimmer because I anticipated that it would be really easy to cook seedlings. Even so, I  just can't keep this mat in the 75-85 Goldilocks zone - it's either baking or freezing. Anyone have any tips on keeping this thing at a stable temp? I need to iron the kinks out of this heating issue and fast because my first batch of pawpaw is going to finish its stratification next week.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 24, 2016, 09:42:57 AM
Crazy.
I got 2 "Apollo" heat mats from Amazon. They have decent reviews. I saw mention of stand-alone thermostats that could be used in conjunction, to modulate the temp. But many reviews said they were unnecessary and I didn't want the expense.

So my answer for the moment is a stack of Hardy Boys books to keep the tray about 3 inches above the mat.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: sildanani on January 24, 2016, 12:54:07 PM

Question for sildanani and googer - did you pre-soak your seeds?

I soaked them for 24 hours in warm water prior to planting them.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 24, 2016, 08:31:30 PM
Success!

After giving my container a bit of water, I couldn't help but poke around in the soil. Sure enough, I saw one of the seeds has sprouted! I think it was one of the ones from the first batch, which I had all but written off as lost; but I suppose it is also possible that one of the seeds I planted two days ago already sprouted. That means that either P. incarnata is much more tolerant of radical temperature changes than I anticipated, or that the seeds can sprout very quickly under optimal temperature (75 F/24 C). I suspect the latter is the case, so I would keep a close eye on your first batch of seeds Triloba Tracker!

I will keep you guys posted as other seeds come up and try to have a success ratio within the next week. Otherwise, I'm chalking this one up as a success. Those of you who were interested in these seeds, I'll reach out to you again and arrange sending a few out to you.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 24, 2016, 09:28:55 PM
The coincidence continues! I just checked my first "cooked" batch and they are sprouting right up!

Are your sprouts the ones that only got a few weeks stratification?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 24, 2016, 10:04:35 PM
Yes. These only got 5 weeks of stratification at 35 F. As this experiment goes on, I hope to determine whether the shorter stratification period has a negative impact on germination rate.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on January 30, 2016, 09:09:33 PM
So far, I have an 80% germination rate with my first batch of Passiflora incarnata seeds, which I suspect will increase to 90 shortly. I'm pretty pleased with those numbers. I have relocated the first seedling to its own paper cup on the windowsill. With the spotty sunlight and short daylight hours, it is getting very leggy on the windowsill and I'm concerned that the rest of the seedlings will do the same. I'm considering investing in a growing lamp to tide the seedlings over until the weather is consistently warm.

Anyone have any good suggestions for a low-cost growing lamp to get seeds started out?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: mushroombob on February 01, 2016, 09:45:43 AM
A regular fluorescent shop light will work well for seedlings . You just need to keep the plants as close to the bulbs as you can. I use one for growing seedlings with good results. Just rig up an easy way to move the lights or the plants.

Good luck and keep up the good work
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on February 01, 2016, 10:32:38 AM
Googs,

This first batch of yours - were they all subjected to the high heat?

Here are my seedlings that were stratified 3 months+ and then ended up getting "cooked" with soil temps around 90-95 for maybe a day (?)
5 out of 6. The 6th one actually did sprout but it never really emerged. maybe it got too buried, or was just an abortion, not sure.

(http://s14.postimg.org/ypyu8ohn1/maypop1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ypyu8ohn1/)(http://s14.postimg.org/59j869b9p/maypop2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/59j869b9p/)(http://s14.postimg.org/yelz9nqkt/maypop3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/yelz9nqkt/)

I have 12 other seeds in another tray that are about a week old, maybe a little more. They are being kept at mid 70's temperature, and so far there is no sign of life at all.
It's hard to be patient but I know sildanani said hers took a month to sprout. I think this is fairly common at these temps. Very interesting to me that the high temps were not lethal to these seeds and instead induced very fast germination.

Based on how my seedlings are doing, so far there seems to be no ill effect to the embryo, etc at those high temps.

I have my seedlings under a Sun Blaze 44 fixture - a 4-foot, 4-bulb (fluorescent T5). Pretty high-powered for seed starting (which is all I use it for). You can get smaller versions of this fixture and also little T5 "strips" that are self-enclosed single bulbs that are just plug-and-go. I started with one of those last year. Sunlight Supply is the maker of those and the Sun Blaze.
I would advise you check the heat output of anything you get before putting plants too close to it. I had always read, like mushroombob said, that fluorescent fixtures can (and should) get really close to plants. But this Sun Blaze 44 puts out a lot of heat. I have it about a foot above my seedlings but due to the light output of these T5 bulbs, it's plenty close.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on February 02, 2016, 01:28:48 AM
A regular fluorescent shop light will work well for seedlings . You just need to keep the plants as close to the bulbs as you can. I use one for growing seedlings with good results. Just rig up an easy way to move the lights or the plants.

Good luck and keep up the good work

Thanks. I'll just get a cheap desk lamp with a 100 w fluorescent and aim it right down on them. The sunlight doesn't seem to be cutting it. The angle of the sun and the placement a building to the south limits the amount of sunlight the seedlings can get at this time of the year.

Googs,

This first batch of yours - were they all subjected to the high heat?

I have 12 other seeds in another tray that are about a week old, maybe a little more. They are being kept at mid 70's temperature, and so far there is no sign of life at all.
It's hard to be patient but I know sildanani said hers took a month to sprout. I think this is fairly common at these temps. Very interesting to me that the high temps were not lethal to these seeds and instead induced very fast germination.

Those are some healthy looking seedlings, your light fixture seems to be working well for them. Yes. My first batch was all subjected to temperatures probably in the mid to upper 90s (I didn't even bother to use the thermometer - I could just feel that they were way too hot). Maybe not, though, maybe a short burst of really high temps do speed up germination.

If the other batch was planted a week ago, then that's pretty typical to not see any sprouting. If you dug around, you'd probably find most of them have germinated and are spreading roots. I've noticed P. incarnata lays down a relatively large taproot and I that seems to be where most of the initial growth goes. Don't be discouraged. Look for the first sprouts within a week. Mine have been sprouting around 2 weeks after sowing - not sure why sildanani's took so long to sprout. If nothing by then, you might try poking around in the soil to see what's up - or down, rather.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on February 11, 2016, 08:50:40 PM
Well, all of my seeds have sprouted at this point. There was one seed that I think got planted too deeply and did sprout but I sacrificed it by exhuming it :)
My oldest sprouts now have 2-3 true leaves. I up-potted them on Monday and all had good root systems. I've never up-potted seedlings specifically- I've planted transplants into the ground or pot but never anything this young. I hope I wasn't too tough with them. I did loosen the root mass and tried to kind of undo any circling roots.
I will say they seem to be a tiny bit shocked, as they have seemed to pause in their growth somewhat. The newest leaves that were forming quickly before have not grown much since. However, I do think I see the beginnings of "secondary" leaves - tiny growth on the branches of the first true leaves.

I probably should've repotted sooner as there was son minor root circling. Overall however my expectations have been exceeded.

Seems like all you have to do is stratify these (I did 3+ months in the fridge) and germinate in a warm place (I would say 80-85 Fahrenheit for fast germination). Nothing mysterious or complicated after all.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on February 12, 2016, 05:43:53 PM
Update on my maypops, as well as a correction.

It turned out that my germination rate was substantially lower than I anticipated. When I reported that the germination rate was 80%, I was apparently seeing my second wave of non-baked seedlings coming up which had been mixed with my "baked" seeds. In hindsight, mixing two treatment groups was a very unscientific thing to do, but I really did not expect any of that first batch to ever germinate so I didn't see the harm in putting the new batch in the same soil. Of the total 20 seeds I attempted, only 10 sprouted, resulting in a 50% germination rate. Soaking the seeds didn't seem to have any discernible effect on germination. And high temperatures are obviously tolerated. I'd agree that 80-85 F is an ideal germination temperature.

The main difference between my seeds and Triloba Tracker's are the stratification times. Triloba's seeds stratified for three months whereas mine stratified for only five weeks. The obvious conclusion seems to be that stratification is a bigger deal than I ever anticipated. I was under the impression that Passiflora incarnata didn't really need the long stratification period, but it would seem I've been mistaken. It is worth noting that these seeds were collected from wild specimens in southern Illinois - just about as far north as one can find P. incanata in their native range. Seeds from that area might be evolutionarily inclined to need stratification more than from a specimen from Alabama or Texas . For maximum germination, I would suggest 90 days of cold and moist stratification. 35-40 days is probably the bare minimum for a stratification period.

Even so, 10 plants was more than plenty for me and I gave three of them away to a friend. The ones that have sprouted are coming along very nicely. Got a good fluorescent lamp for them and future seedlings (hoping to use it for some pawpaw and cherimoya seedlings before the month is out). Using the lamp for 12 hours has really sped up their growth, all the cotyledons are nice and green and the older seedlings have put out 1-2 true leaves out. Looking forward to warm weather to plant them outside.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on February 13, 2016, 11:11:35 AM
Thanks for the summary, Googer!
Excellent observations.
I plan to give away a few of my seedlings too. honestly I'm not sure what I'm going to do with all of them. I have a 32-foot "fence" trellis I recently built, using cattle panels and cedar posts. I have 4 maypops planted along this already, and was going to plant a couple\few more there. (Side note - not sure about the spacing. The ones planted now are probably 12 inches apart.)

I may put some in landscaped areas near my house, but i'm a little worried about the vines taking over the place. I wouldn't mind being surrounded by them, but it might not look good in these slightly manicured areas. I have visions of being the "maypop man" with a property overrun with them, since it is the official wildflower of Tennessee after all.

I'm also really interested to see what color the flowers are on these seedlings. I think I mentioned earlier that these are from mature fruit that was set on a white maypop vine I purchased from Logee's. The only other incarnatas around were all wild type. I admit I don't have much understanding of the specifics of plant genetics. (Speaking of which, anyone know of any good primer on the subject?) I would think the chances of these being purely white-flowered are low....?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on March 24, 2016, 07:18:54 PM
Ok wow.....is this what I think it is?

I was poking-around my garden and happened to notice something emerging from the base of a maypop I planted last November.

(http://s21.postimg.org/h7l8xjp3n/IMG_6694.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/h7l8xjp3n/)

This is my first spring where I've had a maypop overwinter. The white vegetable-sprout-looking stem gives me some doubt, but otherwise I would be very inclined to say this was a shoot from the maypop. There's another shoot coming up in the back of the picture.

Maypops are, after all, supposed to pop-up in May, one of the last perennials to come alive. Does it make sense for it to be growing in March? The other 3 plantings do not have any above-ground growth yet. But this one was the most mature.

Any experienced folks out there (TriangleJohn?) who can comment?


Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on March 24, 2016, 09:48:17 PM
Could be. They come up when the weather is warm enough here. The stems come from pretty deep underground, like 6-10 inches. I know this having dug up plants to give away. They will grow more shoots there later.

They can pop up several feet away.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on March 24, 2016, 09:54:50 PM
The leaf shape seems consistent with the trident-shape maypop leaves have.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on March 24, 2016, 10:12:55 PM
The leaf shape seems consistent with the trident-shape maypop leaves have.

I know, right?!?!

Could be. They come up when the weather is warm enough here. The stems come from pretty deep underground, like 6-10 inches. I know this having dug up plants to give away. They will grow more shoots there later.

They can pop up several feet away.

fyliu - does the white shoot color seem normal to you?
Yeah, we've had an unusually warm early spring - i can't even remember the last frost, and we've had I think 2 days in the 80's and several in the 70's. Plus, this is planted in an area I sheet-mulched in November, so perhaps the decomposition is generating some extra heat. Time will tell - this is quite a surprise!
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: fyliu on March 25, 2016, 12:02:29 AM
Yeah, the underground portion is that color.

I found out that I got my original seeds from trade wind fruits. I kept thinking it was Horizon Herbs (strictly medicinals).
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 01, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Follow-up: the picture I posted of shoot growth is definitely the maypop. 2 other shoots are coming up too. I hope it's not a bad sign that my other 3 over-wintered plantings have not broken ground yet.

My indoor seedlings are going nuts....starting to form flower buds. I suspect I will have open blooms in maybe 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 18, 2016, 08:43:19 AM
My seedlings bloomed yesterday - I was expecting one flower to open but instead I got 3.

It was sort of like roulette - I didn't know what the flowers would look like since they came from my 'Alba' (white) vine's fruit but were pollinated by a purple-flowered variety. I figure somewhere in the genetics at least some offspring would be white, but what I got appears to be a blend of purple and white. Very pretty in my opinion!
I have already cross pollinated these 3 vines with each other, so I presume that F2 generation would have a greater chance of producing solid-white flowers.

I hope letting these flower so soon won't be detrimental to their overall vigor this year. I am FINALLY going to plant them out today.

(http://s3.postimg.org/u1vlnphf3/IMG_6825.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u1vlnphf3/)

(http://s3.postimg.org/u0lnuaflb/IMG_6826.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/u0lnuaflb/)
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 20, 2016, 10:24:52 PM
Any thoughts on whether I should cut the flowers (spent ones and forming ones) on these vines?
They are only 3 months old and some have already set (and I pollinated) 2 flowers.
Vegetative growth seems to have drastically slowed. Now that they're in the ground, however, I'm not sure what they'll do. Not sure they'd even hold fruit at this age anyway.
The goal for these particular vines is to cover a fence and flower as much as possible. Probably a tall order for their first year (?)
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 22, 2016, 08:35:27 AM
Any thoughts on whether I should cut the flowers (spent ones and forming ones) on these vines?
They are only 3 months old and some have already set (and I pollinated) 2 flowers.
Vegetative growth seems to have drastically slowed. Now that they're in the ground, however, I'm not sure what they'll do. Not sure they'd even hold fruit at this age anyway.
The goal for these particular vines is to cover a fence and flower as much as possible. Probably a tall order for their first year (?)

Impatient as I am, I made the hard call to cut all flowers off the vines. We'll see how they respond....
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on April 22, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
Crazy that you got flowers so early. Mine show no sign of producing buds yet, but that could change when I put them in the ground at long last this weekend. Flowering and fruiting is extremely energy-intensive on a plant, so if you're trying to get a large, healthy plant that can cover a fence, then you've made the right call in pruning flowers.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 22, 2016, 03:11:19 PM
Crazy that you got flowers so early. Mine show no sign of producing buds yet, but that could change when I put them in the ground at long last this weekend. Flowering and fruiting is extremely energy-intensive on a plant, so if you're trying to get a large, healthy plant that can cover a fence, then you've made the right call in pruning flowers.

Yeah at first I thought this was because they were very happy, but now I'm starting to wonder if it was a stress response instead. I am very much still learning just the basics of growing things, hence the confusion.
They were fairly but not ridiculously root-bound. I think light and nutrition were good, so if it was indeed stress-induced flowering, the root issue is my suspected culprit.
I guess I have learned that I need more up-potting happening if I am going to grow them this vigorously (i.e. fish emulsion and presumably strong lighting) indoors.....My tomatoes and peppers also started flowering indoors.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: coyote on May 09, 2016, 08:59:45 AM
(http://s32.postimg.org/vtwdrgu9t/20160508_170655_zpswmpgqjfl.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vtwdrgu9t/)

Just planted some maypop seedlings in 4b, should be interesting if the summer is long enough for them to fruit and if the winter does or doesnt kill them.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on May 09, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
([url]http://s32.postimg.org/vtwdrgu9t/20160508_170655_zpswmpgqjfl.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/vtwdrgu9t/[/url])

Just planted some maypop seedlings in 4b, should be interesting if the summer is long enough for them to fruit and if the winter does or doesnt kill them.


Awesome! I think you've accurately described the challenges.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on June 08, 2016, 03:13:10 PM
Well, things are in full swing here with my Maypops. I've had probably 6 or so blooms across all my vines (not counting the seedlings that flowered early due to stress, I believe).
I have one fruit set on my oldest vine, which overwintered last year. All other vines are seedlings except for the "Iridescence" vine I ordered from Brushwood.

I wanted to post about a very annoying Maypop pest that's driving me a little nuts.

I will try to post a picture soon, but they are small (1/8 inch), oblong shaped, golden/tan colored beetles with black legs and antennae. I have yet to identify them. They sit almost exclusively on the undersides of leaves and eat small holes in them. If you get too close to the bug or shake the leaf, they will hop off like a flea.
They can be ambushed and squished by hand with about a 75% success rate. But their relatives are always back for more later.
I spoke to another passiflora grower here in Tennessee and he has them too. They don't totally defoliate the vines, they just make for ugly leaves.
I have found them in flowers too, so not sure if they can potentially damage fruit. (I have also found holes bored in flower buds, but not sure who the culprit is).

My point in posting this is to see if anyone has any ideas about: 1) what these are; and 2) how to get rid of them "organically"

I have tried cayenne pepper, insecticidal soap, and a hot pepper spray with no apparent results.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: googer on June 08, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
My transplanted plants have grown very little since I last checked them about a month ago. I suspect these plants may be setting down a large root system rather than growing above ground.

The vines at the property where I collected my seeds from are growing rapidly. I counted perhaps 6-7 individual plants with numerous flower buds; good news for anyone interested in more of these seeds.

As for your beetle, my best guess would probably be a soldier beetle species (Chauliognathus spp.) As for organic remedies, a trick I use to ward off Japanese Beetles is to collect several of the insects, grind them into a gritty pulp with a stone or brick, and then smear their remains on and around the foliage of the plants that they were eating off of. It seemed fairly effective for that particular species at least. Many beetles have very keen senses of "smell" and are able to detect minute quantities of pheromones from their own species. Allowing these beetles to get a whiff of their dead brothers and sisters might make them think twice about making a meal of your maypops.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on June 09, 2016, 09:58:04 PM
Goog - yeah I read some reference to grinding up bugs on some website while researching some other issue (oh - i think maybe it was mashing up slugs as a deterrent to their kin)....guy said it didn't work.
I may try your idea on these arthropods, though!

For the moment it's possible that run-of-the-mill insecticidal soap may be working as a preventative. So far so good, or could be some other coincidental factor.

Here is a shot of the first bloom on my Iridescence vine. Beautiful deep purple! interesting cleft stigmas!

(http://s33.postimg.org/dq71kvjuj/IMG_7344.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/dq71kvjuj/)

I hand-pollinated it with stuff from a different vine. We'll see...so far all of my vines have dropped their first 1-2 flowers even with pollination. I suspect this may be normal.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 19, 2016, 04:00:01 PM
My first fruit dropped yesterday.
A good-sized one, 7 inch circumference (2.22 inch diameter).

So now my new mission is to understand how long I should let it ripen for optimal flavor.
In the past I've waited a few days until it's pretty wrinkly like an edulis.
But it's quite fragrant already - I'm tempted to try it now.

Anyone have any solid experience as to when to crack into these suckers?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 22, 2016, 01:05:22 PM
I always assume that if they drop, they are ripe. The seeds have to be colored up, if they are white then there is usually little flavor. Some people like them heavily wrinkled and others eat them with only a little bit. I'm not sure there are any hard and fast rules. My P. edulis is in full swing so right now that is what I am eating. The fruit comes in waves and there is enough to make a juice from or drizzle over fruit salad. I've got to figure out a way to grow a ton of these.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on July 22, 2016, 03:40:38 PM
I always assume that if they drop, they are ripe. The seeds have to be colored up, if they are white then there is usually little flavor. Some people like them heavily wrinkled and others eat them with only a little bit. I'm not sure there are any hard and fast rules. My P. edulis is in full swing so right now that is what I am eating. The fruit comes in waves and there is enough to make a juice from or drizzle over fruit salad. I've got to figure out a way to grow a ton of these.

Thanks for the info - yeah, I went ahead and ate this one 2 days after it fell. It was....okay. I don't have enough experience eating these to really know what to expect.
I have 20 something fruits forming, so I will experiment and see what I can see.

I don't want to take this thread on a tangent, but how are you managing your edulis? In a pot that you bring indoors? If so, what kind of setup do you have indoors?

I am starting to fear that incarnata may not be worth growing for fruit......edulis is so far superior, it seems.

If I had the resources, I would love to try to breed a great-tasting incarnata.

This "Iridescence" vine is supposed to be just that, but I have not tasted yet. So far I am disappointed - the fruits are the smallest of all the vines I have growing - not much bigger than golf balls  :-\

P.S. I actually really like eating the maypop skin...it has the funkiest sweet/savory flavor, makes me think of sweet potato or parsnip chips.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: TriangleJohn on July 24, 2016, 11:03:40 AM
Don't give up too quickly, a lot of the stuff I grow had weak flavor in the beginning. It seems that after the plants mature they taste better. Mine also seem to have richer flavor if I remember to fertilize them on a schedule.

I still like my P. incarnata vines. Maybe this year the two will have ripe fruit at the same time and I can see how close or how far apart they are flavor wise. I can send you seeds or even fruit from mine and you can compare. I don't really manage the Maypops, they just do what they want out in the garden. I intend to build some sort of trellis system so I can get to the fruit better, but the garden chore list is long.

I have the P. edulis in a large horse feed bucket (maybe 35+ gallons). I stuck into that a very strong and tall tomato cage. The pot is tall and combined with the cage it is over 6 feet tall. The vine climbed up quickly and I wove it in and out of the rods on the cage to try and keep it compact. I drag it into my hoophouse for the winter after first frost. Inside it tends to go wild and climb all over everything. Outside for the summer it seems happy to just drape down from the top of the tomato cage. I haven't had to trim it once this summer and I have it parked next to an elevated wooden deck with railings I thought it would cover up.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: coyote on September 11, 2016, 06:20:20 PM
The Maypops I planted back in May have been blooming the past few weeks, but we're only 2 to 6 weeks away from our first frost depending on the weather so I'm doubtful they'll fruit this year.  Should be interesting whether or not they come back next year; they are well mulched and south facing so I think they have an outside chance.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Fabio on January 04, 2017, 06:47:11 AM
The Passiflora incarnata is self fertile plant or she needs a pollinator and  who is the best pollinator for her ?
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on January 09, 2017, 12:05:21 PM
The Passiflora incarnata is self fertile plant or she needs a pollinator and  who is the best pollinator for her ?

They simply need a genetically different incarnata in order to set fruit, or another Passiflora species such as caerulea or cincinnata, or even edulis if you have one.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on March 09, 2017, 10:18:56 PM
I had big plans to expand my maypop collection this year. I stratified over 100 seeds of both pure incarnata and the "iridescence " hybrid for 4-6 months.
I sowed them 2 weeks ago but have not had the speedy germination I seem to have gotten last year (wish I had better notes).
So far I only have one little seed that has emerged. There were some issues with the soil drying s but, so I may have set things back a few days until I corrected.
Anyway, just a little frustrating so far but trying to be patient. I tried to save only seed from really tasty fruits, excited to see if I can get some high quality fruits out of the offspring. especially the Iridescence offspring - hoping for larger fruit size.  This vine had excellent tasting fruits but very small and very little pulp. For
The record, though, a very tropical and complex flavor - floral, reminded me of flavicarpa a bit. Not all that sweet.
Title: Re: Maypop (Passiflora incarnata) Thread
Post by: Triloba Tracker on April 17, 2017, 03:27:03 PM
My big maypop sprout-out was a pretty big flop.

I believe the seeds were dried-out by my heat setup - only one out of nearly 100 seeds germinated.

I lost all my Iridescence seeds.

Fortunately I discovered a ziploc in the fridge of essentially unmarked seeds, and I was able to sprout these easily. They're about 4-5 inches tall now.
I only saved seeds from tasty fruits, so these have at least that much going for them, but it was not what I hoped for - i don't know the parentage of these seedlings. I'm hoping at least 1 of them has Iridescence genetics from cross-pollination.

On a more important note, I think i have commented before on little brilliant-orange hopping beetles that love to eat my maypop leaves.
Well, i discovered a few weeks ago that they were eating the emerging maypops in my garden. They were basically completely pruning all new shoots at ground level.

I have been spraying a pure neem oil emulsion (water, neem, dr. bronner's soap) and it seems to be working quite well. All previous attempts to deter these pests had failed.

So FYI for anyone else facing these guys. (I still don't know what they're called other than "leaf hoppers" I guess).