Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: starch on August 31, 2015, 01:16:40 PM

Title: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 01:16:40 PM
I wanted to try to compile a list of mangoes with the following characteristics:


I hesitate to say good flavor / taste, because this is very subjective. But I think the aspects that make a fruit high quality are perhaps a little more objective.

After looking through the forum, here is a list that I have compiled that meets the above criteria. Please add to the list (or dispute what I have compiled based on my misunderstandings). Please note that I have no experience with these varieties, I am trying to compile this list based on the experience of others.

Cultivar list in alphabetical order (Click on Cultivar Name for a detailed description of tree characteristics from forum members observations)
--------------------------------------------------------
- Alampur baneshan (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220985#msg220985) (nominated by Squam256, Mark in Texas)
- Amrapali (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg236170#msg236170)
- Angie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220986#msg220986) (nominated by Squam256, johnb51)
- Baptiste (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221021#msg221021) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Carrie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221025#msg221025) (nominated by mangokothiyan, many noted flavor objections, zands notes that not quite as compact, med/fast grower)
- Cogshall (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221029#msg221029) (nominated by Mark in Texas)
- Cotton Candy (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221042#msg221042) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Duncan (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221047#msg221047) (nominated by y0rascal, Guanabanus)
- Dwarf Hawaiian (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221127#msg221127) (nominated by mangokothiyan)
- Edgar (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221129#msg221129) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Fairchild (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221130#msg221130) (nominated by WGphil, zands, bsbullie)
- Florigon (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221131#msg221131) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Honey Kiss (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221132#msg221132) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Imam Passand (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221151#msg221151) (nominated by Squam256)
- Jehangir (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221152#msg221152) (nominated by Squam256)
- Julie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221153#msg221153) (nominated by TnTrobbie, zands)
- Leo#2 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221154#msg221154) (nominated by JF)
- Mahachanok (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221155#msg221155) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Manilita (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221194#msg221194) (nominated by sunworshiper)
- Nam Doc Mai #4 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221195#msg221195) (nominated by wslau, zands)
- Neelam (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221197#msg221197) (nominated by Squam256, many noted flavor objections)
- Peggy (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221198#msg221198) (nominated by JF)
- Pickering (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221199#msg221199) (nominated by mangokothiyan, johnb51, zands, Mark in Texas, JF)
- Pina Colada (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221200#msg221200) (nominated by zands, bsbullie)
- Providence (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221201#msg221201) (nominated by bsbullie)
- Rapoza (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221463#msg221463) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Rosa (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221203#msg221203) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Rosigold (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221215#msg221215) (nominated by skhan)
- Rudiett (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg236459#msg236459) (nominated by JF)
- Son Pari (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221216#msg221216) (nominated by Guanabanus)
- Thomson (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221217#msg221217) (nominated by JF)
- Tomato (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221804#msg221804) (nominated by JF)
- Venus (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221218#msg221218) (nominated by Squam256, Guanabanus)
- Villa Señor (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221219#msg221219) (nominated by JF)
- White Pari (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221220#msg221220) (nominated by Guanabanus)

NOT a compact mango but receives honorable mention for being easily maintained at compact mango heights:
- Mallika (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221224#msg221224) (?, upright vigorous grower and not compact, but easily trained. Mallika has received several honorable mentions. But also some possible detractions (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220439#msg220439))

- Others (please add below in the comments)

A table of Cultivars, Ripening Time, and Flavor Notes based on the above list has been generated.
See these posts: PART 1 OF THE TABLE (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221719#msg221719), PART 2 OF THE TABLE (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221720#msg221720)

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: skhan on August 31, 2015, 01:55:56 PM
Based on my limited experience i would add Rosigold to the list. Mine is about 8 feet tall and its growth is pretty compact.
Also, I thought Coconut Cream was supposed to be leggy and Beverly was low and spreading. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: TnTrobbie on August 31, 2015, 02:05:20 PM
I haven't seen a Thai Everbearing mango tree but I've heard that it's really dwarf, but from what's available, I'll have to recommend Julie. To me it fits all the qualities from a mango you're looking for. It may not be a top tier like Sweet Tart but on a normal day it's pretty darn good and yummy. No need to tip it for it to develop a "busy" shape and since you're in AZ, the drier conditions should discourage disease. My 9 yr old Julie tree is barely 8 ft tall without any height pruning. 100-150 mangoes per season for the past 4 years.

Another mango I'd recommend is Mallika. Though it's a vertical grower like Maha Chanok, it responds very nicely to tip pruning and doesn't develop "droopy" resultant shoots like Coconut Cream and Pickering. Juliette is another mango that responds very well to tip pruning as well but I have not had a crop from my 3yr old tree to determine production or fruit quality. Carrie trees I've seen on dwarfing root stock can be bushy and compact but the like/love or hate of the fruit seems to be split.

Go Julie. :)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 02:18:32 PM
skhan,

Thanks, I added Rosigold to the list!

TnTrobbie

I'll have to recommend Julie. To me it fits all the qualities from a mango you're looking for. It may not be a top tier like Sweet Tart but on a normal day it's pretty darn good and yummy. No need to tip it for it to develop a "busy" shape and since you're in AZ, the drier conditions should discourage disease. My 9 yr old Julie tree is barely 8 ft tall without any height pruning. 100-150 mangoes per season for the past 4 years.

That sounds like a nearly perfect tree for this criteria. Thanks for the pitch! I definitely added it to the list above. Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 06:48:06 PM
Would Ice Cream or Nam Doc Mai be candidates for the list?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: TnTrobbie on August 31, 2015, 07:54:12 PM
Ice Cream responds nicely to tipping but its a poor producer in my yard. 1st year in its 7 gal pot- 3 lemony goodness mangoes. 1st year in ground- 2 mangoes. 2nd and 3rd year in ground- nada :D. Not dwarf like Julie but gets bush and erect. It's 7 ft tall already.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 08:05:34 PM
Ice Cream responds nicely to tipping but its a poor producer in my yard ... Not dwarf like Julie but gets bush and erect ....

Gotcha, good to know that it doesn't fit the criteria.

BTW: The Earth laughs in flowers. And bear gifts through fruits. is an awesome signature. I really like that!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: WGphil on August 31, 2015, 08:21:50 PM
The Fairchild is from a hot, moist climate.  It grows great for me but I live in a hot, moist climate.  Great fruit if it fits. 

Might want to see how others near you are doing with these types in your climate 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 08:31:01 PM
The Fairchild is from a hot, moist climate.  It grows great for me but I live in a hot, moist climate.  Great fruit if it fits. 

Might want to see how others near you are doing with these types in your climate 

That is a good observation about the Fairchild. I have read that the Julie does well in arid climates, so that might be a really good fit for me, especially given TnTrobbie's description. I also have seen evidence that Carrie does really well in Phoenix. Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Squam256 on August 31, 2015, 09:26:08 PM
Coconut cream should not be on this list
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 09:34:45 PM
Coconut cream should not be on this list

Thanks Squam, I removed it from the list.

BTW, which criteria does it violate?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Squam256 on August 31, 2015, 10:07:54 PM
Coconut cream should not be on this list

Thanks Squam, I removed it from the list.

BTW, which criteria does it violate?

It's not really a compact or "natural dwarf". It has a vigorous, spreading growth habit.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangokothiyan on August 31, 2015, 10:13:06 PM

Coconut cream should not be on this list

Thanks Squam, I removed it from the list.

BTW, which criteria does it violate?

Coconut Cream is by no means compact. It is a vigorous grower and the jury is still out on its productivity. Pickering is the most compact of them all. Carrie has a spreading growth habit and is a good producer as well.  Julie tastes great but is not the most productive cultivar, at least in south florida.  I think one should add dwarf Hawaiian to this list. The one at Truly Tropical is a compact grower and very productive. The taste, in my opinion, is very good as well.


Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Squam256 on August 31, 2015, 10:24:01 PM
Some others that could be considered based in their growth habits:

Angie
Venus
Iman passand
Jehangir
Alampur baneshan
Neelam (if you like it)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 11:27:07 PM
Coconut Cream is by no means compact. It is a vigorous grower and the jury is still out on its productivity. Pickering is the most compact of them all. Carrie has a spreading growth habit and is a good producer as well.  Julie tastes great but is not the most productive cultivar, at least in south florida.  I think one should add dwarf Hawaiian to this list. The one at Truly Tropical is a compact grower and very productive. The taste, in my opinion, is very good as well.

Thanks for the info! And I added Dwarf Hawaiian to the list above.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on August 31, 2015, 11:27:34 PM
Some others that could be considered based in their growth habits:

Angie
Venus
Iman passand
Jehangir
Alampur baneshan
Neelam (if you like it)

Added to the list, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: y0rascal on September 01, 2015, 05:19:31 AM
Duncan needs to be added to the list also. It responds well to pruning and can be maintained  at 8 to 10 feet and is an outstanding producer.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: palologrower on September 01, 2015, 05:52:03 AM
Some others that could be considered based in their growth habits:

Angie
Venus
Iman passand
Jehangir
Alampur baneshan
Neelam (if you like it)

I was told iman passand/himmayudin was a large tree.   Are u serious???   If u are serious u made my day.  I love that mango and if u are firm in this opinion I'm going to try grow one in my terraces!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangomandan on September 01, 2015, 08:07:52 AM
In my yard, at least, Beverly has not been a compact grower. It has grown large, with as much vigor as any I've grown.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 08:36:52 AM
In my yard, at least, Beverly has not been a compact grower. It has grown large, with as much vigor as any I've grown.

Thanks mangomadman, duly noted and removed from the list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 08:39:17 AM
Duncan needs to be added to the list also. It responds well to pruning and can be maintained  at 8 to 10 feet and is an outstanding producer.

Thanks y0rascal, it is added to the list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: wslau on September 01, 2015, 09:11:31 AM
Starch,
You asked about NDM and I didn't see a response.  But I believe NDM#4 would make the list.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 09:30:04 AM
Starch,
You asked about NDM and I didn't see a response.  But I believe NDM#4 would make the list.

wslau, Thanks for the feedback, I have added it to the list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 01, 2015, 09:36:03 AM
My Neelam tree was very compact and slow-growing.  I say "was" because I just chopped it down.  It's really an awful tasting mango--absolutely the worst I've ever tasted!  It's an Indian mango, and there's a reason that it's not a well-regarded mango in India.  I don't know why anyone would want to grow it except for maybe plant breeding purposes.  My Pickering tree has behaved like a dwarf--in the ground almost 4 years and still only six feet tall.  (I love that tree!)  Angie and Mallika are both fairly compact.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 01, 2015, 10:16:35 AM
Here in SoCal

Villa Señor
Peggy
Leo#2

Are compact slow growers.

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 01, 2015, 10:22:49 AM
NDM -nam doc mai is compact but the mango has straight sweet honey taste. I would plant it only if I have the more complex ones that also have tart component.

I can vouch for Fairchild. Good reliable producer. Can be pruned to keep it small. But it is not as compact as Pickering and Julie. Pickering produces fairly soon after planting. Lots of people like the Pickering fruit. In your situation I would go for one of these:

Julie
Faichild
Pickering
Pina Colada (compact grower) (it is growing slowly for me)

Carrie is a bushy grower but not compact. It is a medium fast grower
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 01, 2015, 10:23:40 AM
Here in SoCal

Villa Señor
Peggy
Leo#2

Are compact slow growers.

What's the story on those?  Where did they originate?  How's the quality of the fruit?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 10:30:19 AM
My Neelam tree was very compact and slow-growing.  I say "was" because I just chopped it down.  It's really an awful tasting mango--absolutely the worst I've ever tasted!  It's an Indian mango, and there's a reason that it's not a well-regarded mango in India.  I don't know why anyone would want to grow it except for maybe plant breeding purposes.  My Pickering tree has behaved like a dwarf--in the ground almost 4 years and still only six feet tall.  (I love that tree!)  Angie and Mallika are both fairly compact.

Neelam makes the list, but gets immediately rejected :) Thanks for pitches for Pickering, Angie and Mallika!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 10:30:50 AM
Here in SoCal

Villa Señor
Peggy
Leo#2

Are compact slow growers.

Thanks JF, list is updated!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 10:35:31 AM
NDM -nam doc mai is compact but the mango has straight sweet honey taste. I would plant it only if I have the more complex ones that also have tart component.

I can vouch for Fairchild. Good reliable producer. Can be pruned to keep it small. But it is not as compact as Pickering and Julie. Pickering produces fairly soon after planting. Lots of people like the Pickering fruit. In your situation I would go for one of these:

Julie
Faichild
Pickering
Pina Colada (compact grower) (it is growing slowly for me)

Carrie is a bushy grower but not compact. It is a medium fast grower

zands, thanks for the great info, list is updated!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 01, 2015, 10:40:52 AM

mallika archives search

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtzEEOgCAMRNG7uHGrB_EMpJQmoBVMQY1JD28x7v68xUC4ICMFHXXSQb30mq1qLLfDsh9Mjcw6nX4lbK5kfn4p0qyEmL6bn1xIYhyoYhcCwWh7Aea0wQs93i2C;start=30 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtzEEOgCAMRNG7uHGrB_EMpJQmoBVMQY1JD28x7v68xUC4ICMFHXXSQb30mq1qLLfDsh9Mjcw6nX4lbK5kfn4p0qyEmL6bn1xIYhyoYhcCwWh7Aea0wQs93i2C;start=30)

I would not include mallika. Through the years I have seen people (posters here) cut down their mallika tree. The fruit is hard to pick just right. Only plant if you have lots of others but this does not sound like your situation

I got a beautiful leafy mallika at Home Depot say three years ago. But returned it after reading the negative mallika comments here
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: TnTrobbie on September 01, 2015, 10:50:29 AM
Mallikas do not have to be picked mature green then allowed to ripen to be best enjoyed. Tree ripened ones taste just as fine. Production and disease resistance is excellent. I'd question Pina Colada. It's production (lack) has been of debate for maybe the past 2-3 years/seasons.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 01, 2015, 11:30:18 AM
NDM -nam doc mai is compact but the mango has straight sweet honey taste. I would plant it only if I have the more complex ones that also have tart component.

I can vouch for Fairchild. Good reliable producer. Can be pruned to keep it small. But it is not as compact as Pickering and Julie. Pickering produces fairly soon after planting. Lots of people like the Pickering fruit. In your situation I would go for one of these:

Julie
Faichild
Pickering
Pina Colada (compact grower) (it is growing slowly for me)

Carrie is a bushy grower but not compact. It is a medium fast grower


zands, thanks for the great info, list is updated!


Here is Leo#2 brix25 and Peggy brix 23 on ataulfo grafted last year
These are easy to maintain at 10-12'

(http://s3.postimg.cc/u3hu1if5r/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/u3hu1if5r/)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 01, 2015, 11:49:35 AM
Mallikas do not have to be picked mature green then allowed to ripen to be best enjoyed. Tree ripened ones taste just as fine. Production and disease resistance is excellent. I'd question Pina Colada. It's production (lack) has been of debate for maybe the past 2-3 years/seasons.

I think Mallika fruits can be variable like Neelam. Both are Indian mangoes
I remember a poster here said his mallikas tasted like carrots and he was going to axe the tree.
My Pina Colada needs more production confirmation but this year it produced 25 small size fruit with great taste. I await 2016 to see what it can do. By small fruits I mean the size of an 8oz teacup with some a bit larger.
2015 was the first year fruiting for the Pina Colada. The fruits should be larger next year
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 12:10:18 PM
Here is Leo#2 brix25 and Peggy brix 23 on ataulfo grafted last year
These are easy to maintain at 10-12'

Nice looking tree JF! I bet the drainage is superb on that hillside.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: StPeteMango on September 01, 2015, 12:28:27 PM
Here in hot, humid St. Pete, Pickering and Neelam do quite well. Planted both in Jan/Feb of 2013. Both produced (about) 8 mangoes each this year; Pickering's were larger and tastier. Neelam's are smaller and so-so. The Pickering is also the smallest of the trees I have - the top tip is about 4 feet tall now. It is a bit droopy, as someone else mentioned.
So far, it hasn't been that hard to keep the height of my mango trees under control - but then, they're quite young.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 01, 2015, 12:43:47 PM
Here in SoCal

Villa Señor
Peggy
Leo#2

Are compact slow growers.

What's the story on those?  Where did they originate?  How's the quality of the fruit?

JF, can you give us more information on these three varieties?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 01, 2015, 12:48:03 PM
Mallikas do not have to be picked mature green then allowed to ripen to be best enjoyed. Tree ripened ones taste just as fine. Production and disease resistance is excellent. I'd question Pina Colada. It's production (lack) has been of debate for maybe the past 2-3 years/seasons.

I think Mallika fruits can be variable like Neelam. Both are Indian mangoes
I remember a poster here said his mallikas tasted like carrots and he was going to axe the tree.
My Pina Colada needs more production confirmation but this year it produced 25 small size fruit with great taste. I await 2016 to see what it can do. By small fruits I mean the size of an 8oz teacup with some a bit larger.
2015 was the first year fruiting for the Pina Colada. The fruits should be larger next year

I believe Mallika does have Neelam as a parent.  I've grown it before at a former house, and I liked it a lot (picked ripe, not green), but if my current tree produces fruit that tastes like Neelam, I won't keep it.  Next year it should have its first crop.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: WGphil on September 01, 2015, 01:04:00 PM
This year I got to try a lot of mango.  The carrie, nam doc 4, and mallika have become gifts for friends of mine so I can plant different types.

Fruit punch is getting one spot and I am torn on the last two.  Lots of great mango left to try.

I tried all three this year and none were in my top ten so out they go. 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 01, 2015, 04:41:00 PM
Mallikas do not have to be picked mature green then allowed to ripen to be best enjoyed. Tree ripened ones taste just as fine. Production and disease resistance is excellent. I'd question Pina Colada. It's production (lack) has been of debate for maybe the past 2-3 years/seasons.


I think Mallika fruits can be variable like Neelam. Both are Indian mangoes
I remember a poster here said his mallikas tasted like carrots and he was going to axe the tree.
My Pina Colada needs more production confirmation but this year it produced 25 small size fruit with great taste. I await 2016 to see what it can do. By small fruits I mean the size of an 8oz teacup with some a bit larger.
2015 was the first year fruiting for the Pina Colada. The fruits should be larger next year


I believe Mallika does have Neelam as a parent.  I've grown it before at a former house, and I liked it a lot (picked ripe, not green), but if my current tree produces fruit that tastes like Neelam, I won't keep it.  Next year it should have its first crop.


john, I think you are right. greenman and I were discussing here http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17247.msg218881#msg218881 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17247.msg218881#msg218881). Mallika's parents are Neelam and Dussehri. Dussehri is of interest for it's potential cold tolerance and greenman and I were wondering if that conferred any cold tolerance to Mallika. Do you have any experience with Mallika's potential cold tolerance? (even though this is veering off into another thread :) ). Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 02, 2015, 09:13:23 AM
It doesn't get cold where I live--0.7 mile from the beach.  Former house--9 miles from the beach.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 09:19:40 AM
Ahhh gotcha.
It doesn't get cold where I live--0.7 mile from the beach.  Former house--9 miles from the beach.


Ahhh, gotcha. My yard is slightly too cold for mangoes  (see here for how I deal with it) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17247.msg218876#msg218876). And I have another spot in my yard that only a compact mango will fit (which is the point of this post). And a compact mango will be easier to frost protect over it's life too. But if it somehow had a couple more degrees of cold hardiness, well then that would be my mango holy grail :)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 02, 2015, 10:18:20 AM
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 02, 2015, 02:10:26 PM
I love Pickering - very compact tree yet good vigor, great production, good looking tree with dense dark green foliage and short internodes, AWESOME tasting fruit with great texture, richness, no fiber, etc. 

Had my first Mallika this morn allowed to ripen fully on the tree (hardly any green).  Meh..... For a dwarf it's leggy, not well branched, fruit is a bit pasty with some edible fiber (that's not that objectionable).  I severely topped it down to 8" when first planted and having harvested all fruit topped it back 1/3 yesterday past any of the long internodes.   

Disclaimer - am a new mango grower, long time gardener, trees are young, greenhouse grown, greenhouse temps 99+ every day.

I've heard that NDM can get pretty large reason why I opted out for the other too.

Mark
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 02:40:13 PM
I love Pickering - very compact tree yet good vigor, great production, good looking tree with dense dark green foliage and short internodes, AWESOME tasting fruit with great texture, richness, no fiber, etc. 

Thanks Mark! Yes, there seems to be a lot of widespread love for Pickering, thanks for the input!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 02, 2015, 07:04:42 PM
Any mango keeps growing, even Julie, so, as already well-stated at the top of this thread, you want varieties that take well to rather hard pruning and still fruit very well.

So Mallika and Beverly and Fairchild are not very compact on their own, but can be made that way every year.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 02, 2015, 07:19:44 PM
Baptiste, from Haiti, does well as a compact bush--- if you like the non-juicy firm texture and odd flavor.

Rosa, from Brazil, does well kept compact.  Very strong, distinctive flavor.  Try it first.

Florigon does very well when kept compact.  Gets huge if you don't prune it yearly.  Not a much apreciated flavor.

Duncan, already favorably mentioned, does very well when forced to stay compact.  A few persons really like it.

Venus, very late season, grows very leggy--- and then breaks many of its branches with excessive production.  I assume hard pruning would help a lot, but I haven't seen it done.  At that season its main competitors are Beverly and Keitt, so flavor standard is more lenient.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 07:50:13 PM
Any mango keeps growing, even Julie, so, as already well-stated at the top of this thread, you want varieties that take well to rather hard pruning and still fruit very well.

Right, that is a good point!

What I was trying to get across is that a compact tree has a relatively small internode length which will keep it's growth flushes from ballooning out of size too quickly. Especially seeing as how you want to do your pruning just after harvest (i.e. once a year). If the tree is too vigorous and has a large internode length it can certainly get out of hand in a growing season. All this is from what I read, I have very little (successful at least) mango experience of my own. So please correct me if any of this is mistaken.

So if my above assumption / interpretation of others experiences is correct, that is why I stated in the criteria that it needs only relatively minor pruning to be kept in check.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 07:51:05 PM
Baptiste, from Haiti, does well as a compact bush--- if you like the non-juicy firm texture and odd flavor.

Rosa, from Brazil, does well kept compact.  Very strong, distinctive flavor.  Try it first.

Florigon does very well when kept compact.  Gets huge if you don't prune it yearly.  Not a much apreciated flavor.

Duncan, already favorably mentioned, does very well when forced to stay compact.  A few persons really like it.

Venus, very late season, grows very leggy--- and then breaks many of its branches with excessive production.  I assume hard pruning would help a lot, but I haven't seen it done.  At that season its main competitors are Beverly and Keitt, so flavor standard is more lenient.

Thanks for the list, I will add it to the original list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 02, 2015, 08:21:58 PM
New variety, available next year:

Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet.  It has not been observed grafted onto Turpentine rootstock.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 02, 2015, 08:30:49 PM
MahaChanok fruits very well as a small tree--- almost as precocious as Pickering.   I have not seen older trees.

Honey Kiss is precocious and fruits very well as a small tree.

Son Pari and White Pari, both from India, fruit very well as small, compact trees.

Edgar, from Zill, also fruits very well as a small tree.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangokothiyan on September 02, 2015, 08:44:33 PM
New variety, available next year:

Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet.  It has not been observed grafted onto Turpentine rootstock.

Har, how productive is the original Cotton Candy tree? I got to taste it this yer and absolutely loved it.  Also, is Zills planning to release Honey Kiss and Edgar?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 09:10:57 PM
New variety, available next year:

Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet.  It has not been observed grafted onto Turpentine rootstock.

Nice! I will add to the list, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 02, 2015, 09:12:00 PM
MahaChanok fruits very well as a small tree--- almost as precocious as Pickering.   I have not seen older trees.

Honey Kiss is precocious and fruits very well as a small tree.

Son Pari and White Pari, both from India, fruit very well as small, compact trees.

Edgar, from Zill, also fruits very well as a small tree.

Right on! Thanks for all the suggestions!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 04, 2015, 01:15:23 PM
PIN is recommending the Alampur Baneshan which fits Starch's and my criteria.  Have seen a few comments about very small cracks but they seem to come from outdoor growers which suggests to me uneven water either via the gardener, mama nature, or both.

Cogshall seems like a good choice too!  Any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 04, 2015, 01:33:15 PM
PIN is recommending the Alampur Baneshan which fits Starch's and my criteria.  Have seen a few comments about very small cracks but they seem to come from outdoor growers which suggests to me uneven water either via the gardener, mama nature, or both.

Cogshall seems like a good choice too!  Any thoughts on that?

I don't know much about Alampur other than PIN is pushing it in some of the nurseries in SoCal but Cogshall is a small compact grower here in my yard. Taste wise it doesn't come close to Pickering but it's a solid producer. I saw a mature Cogshall in USDA Miami this summer under 12'. I would rate it as a solid second tier mango.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 04, 2015, 01:52:33 PM
Master list updated!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 04, 2015, 06:19:29 PM
A small number of 'Cotton Candy' have been grafted.  'Honey Kiss' is on the to-do list.   'Edgar', not yet.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 11:32:34 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Alampur Baneshsan

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- My tree is over ten (10) years old and is planted in the ground.  It stands approx. eigth (8) feet tall. Here is the negative report about this variety! The fruit has a tendency to split and crack.  Maybe you can control the amount of moisture and resolve the splitting  and cracking issue, by growing them in a large pot. By the way, this mango variety is a very slow grower, and I would recommend it if you don't' mind the fruit splitting. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6513.msg85135#msg85135)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Alampur Baneshan produces reasonably well in Florida for an Indian mango but definitely has horrible issues with splitting. Its probably worse than NDM #4 in that regard actually.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6513.msg85178#msg85178)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Alanpur Baneshsan is a very flavorful mango.  The only problem is, the flavor it has isn't a flavor that everyone likes.  It is very strong flavored and has a considerable resinous twang. The flesh does remain very pale yellow, almost white in appearance even when ripe.  The exteriror doesn't color up either.  On top of that, it tends to have major issues here at my property with splitting on the tree just before being ready for harvest.  Well, its not splitting in the manor that Nam Doc splits.  It is more of a cracking with multiple small cracks forming, as oppposed to one giant crack/split that Nam Doc has.  In either case the fruit is ruined.  So for South Florida, in mucky wet soil, this is another Indian selection that you just won't get to enjoy much fruit from.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1747.msg23848#msg23848)

-- Alampur Baneshan is a very fragrant and spice mango.  I would say that it is a mango for people that like full flavored unusual mangoes. The skin remains mostly
green when mature, and the flesh is kind of pale.  However, the flesh packs a good punch of smells and flavors. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6513.msg85135#msg85135)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 12:01:56 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Angie

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- semi dwarf in growth habit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215858#msg215858)

-- It is definitely larger in habit than the Pickering, maybe Cogshall-ish in size but a bit more spreading in shape.  That's my experience anyway ... Hope that helps, and I'll try to get some pics soon (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1791.msg25932#msg25932)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- It is productive ... The fruit can vary in size from year to year but overall at most times and seasons excellent in eating quality (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215858#msg215858)

-- I don't have any current pics at the moment, but the tree has actually put on little size over the past year.  It held 20 or so fruit in 2011, and then only partially flushed once after harvest.  This year the fruit set about doubled, with 40-50 fruit making it to maturity. This is it's 3rd year in the ground irc.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1791.msg25932#msg25932)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

--  it is the late part of the early season to early part of the mid season.  It is definitely not an April/May mango or even early June for that matter, IMO.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215868#msg215868)

-- Angie ripens at exactly the same time as Pickering (June) and is not an early mango as "advertised" by Dr. Campbell, "harvested before the rainy season." (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215883#msg215883)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- It can and has been an excellent mango.  There have been numerous tastings that I have been involved with where it has vied for top billing.  Unfortunately, it does have some inconsistencies. There have been years where the flavor has been off for some unexplained reason.  For me, it is still a keeper. ... excellent in eating quality on the Fairchild scale of Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor.  And yes, Angie is an early season mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215858#msg215858)

-- Well, 4 fruits in and this seasons Angie fruits are shaping up to be disappointing. The first 2 fell and had considerable anthracnose damage. The next two I picked when they showed some yellowing. The one that looked perfectly ripened (although a rather ugly specimen) was in fact overripe, so I picked a second one that looked a day underripe to compare, it's top was underripe, but the nose was edging up on overripe. So they seem to be ripening unevenly, and the overripe bits are quite mushy. Now, on to the flavor - it is like a roulette game - most bites taste terrible, a bitter taste I don't enjoy, and the occasional bit has excellent flavor, with just the slightest tinge of that unpleasant flavor.  Just  good enough so I can see how. If the bitter taste was absent, they'd be excellent. But so far the reality is I didn't finish any of the 4, they were that bad:( the tree is holding about 20 more, and a couple are quite nicely shaped and unblemished, unlike these first few. So I'll wait to try those, but if the flavor of the lot of them is bad I think I'll be looking to replace this tree next year with a more reliable flavor producer. My space is too precious for an iffy pick. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.msg211588#msg211588)

-- I'm in Miami and my Angie's look nothing like yours. My tree gives me beautiful clean fruit with a pink/red shoulder, the flesh is sweet silky smooth no fiber and a slight papaya undertone/aftertaste. The first year my tree fruited it did not wow me but this year they were great. As I said earlier it does have a resinous taste near the skin and the stem. This is more prominent if eaten too underripe. I am not very fond of the resinous taste but the key to it is to cut the skin away before eating or slicing and it is completely gone. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.msg212576#msg212576)

-- The Angies i've had this year have been superb. Lots of excellent feedback from people who have tried it as well. Definitely a top tier mango and so many positive traits in terms of tree size and growth habit, production and precocity. A decent subset of Americans will probably not like it due to the Carrie-like flavor. But people with Indian and west indie backgrounds (aka people who actually buy mangos) will absolutely love Angie(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.msg212958#msg212958)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 06, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
Edgar is a more vigorous grower.  Would be tough to keep small/compact.

Honey Kiss shohld be available in a year or so.  Very slow grower.

Mahachanok will get larger than Pickering.   Pickering will give more fruit as a smaller tree than Mahachanok.

Har - you sure about the Cotton Candy never being pruned throughout its life?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 04:24:54 PM
Edgar is a more vigorous grower.  Would be tough to keep small/compact.

Boney Kiss shohld be available in a year or so.  Very slow grower.

Mahachanok will get larger than Pickering.   Pickering will give more fruit as a smaller tree than Mahachanok.

Har - you sure about the Cotton Candy never being pruned throughout its life?

Rob, thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 04:25:40 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Baptiste

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- The tree is ease to manage for size and has characteristically small leaves with a light green color. The tree and fruit are moderately susceptible to anthracnose infection. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4772.msg65409#msg65409)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Baptiste is a good looking small to mid sized mango I bought from Truly Tropiccal.  Yellow on the outside, yellow orange on the inside.  It has a faint turpentine taste mixed with sweetness and is reasonably fragrant.  On its own, it would be a decent mango, fibre free and juicy.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg213964#msg213964)

-- 'Baptiste' was selected in Haiti, where it is grown on a locally commercial scale. The fruit are oval, with a smooth, non-waxy skin, weighing from 8 to 16 oz. They are bright yellow to orange and are exceptionally firm, with surprisingly little fiber. The flesh is a deep orange, with a mild and sweet flavor. 'Baptiste' is popular in Haiti, and can be found in local markets, but it is mostly unknown outside of the island.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4772.msg65409#msg65409)

-- 'Baptiste' is actually not very juicy.   Haitians sometimes describe it as a "dry" mango--- one that can be eaten without first taking off one's shirt!  It has good, low-fibre texture, and is quite sweet, with an odd spiceyness.  If you didn't grow up eating it or hearing that it was grandpa's favorite, don't get one before trying the fruit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221707#msg221707)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 04:54:00 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Carrie

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Carrie is a bushy grower but not compact. It is a medium fast grower(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431#msg220431)

-- Smallish, compact growth habit which is easy to control and does not have a lot of fungal/disease problems. At least here in Central Florida.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16959.msg215820#msg215820)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- 40 mangos on a three year old tree sounds pretty darn good. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5615.msg75702#msg75702)

-- Reliable bearer when mature, Disease resistant(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143689#msg143689)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- This is the last Carrie fruit on the tree two fell off today (Aug 08). It is still green hope it holds till september. I got well over 100 fruit from june till now(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12072.msg154976#msg154976)

-- its still only mid May and Carrie are usually ready sometime in June . (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5615.msg75702#msg75702)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- It's been a bad year for uneven ripening. Many of my mango trees have had the same issue. It's easy to mitigate though -- pick the fruit while green and ripen indoors. I actually prefer carrie picked green to tree-ripened carries anyway (flesh is firmer and retains more acidity that way).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17097.msg216929#msg216929)

-- Yeah, unless you miss a few on a full grown tree, Carries should be picked mature green or at most, a slight color break on the shoulders (not sunburn but actual color break).  When the ripen on the tree, the texture gets really soft, actuall too soft, and the taste it below par as far as a Carrie goes.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17097.msg217018#msg217018)

-- The Carries I've eaten were all fallen from the tree at the F&S Park, very yellow, slightly soft and very good. Carrie should be eaten quickly once ripe. They don't keep long. I would wait for more yellow coloration. Look at the PIN picture.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12159.msg156004#msg156004)

-- DO NOT rely on yellow color while picking Carrie. Some on my tree will stay 100% green while fully ripe inside. If you are not sure, bend it  90 degrees up and if ready, it will come off on its own. When ripe, the top of the mango around the stem will fill out and form into a "butt-shape" :) Once it is no longer thin near the stem and fills out it should ripen properly. And when picked, I prefer to eat them when it begins to soften slightly to the touch and begin to smell.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12159.msg156022#msg156022)

-- Finally a break from all those mild tasting FL varieties!! Strong flavor plus piney taste made of of my favorites. Supposedly has very short window for perfection. I tried 5 Carries in various stages, and they were all excellent mangoes. Failed to see all that fuss about window of perfection and hate relationship some people have to this variety. Also refrigerated Carries are simply awesome. Refrigeration actually increases overall appeal with Carrie. It isn't necessarily true with other varieties. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg154433#msg154433)

-- The 'Carrie' mango variety demystified:

It's a very peculiar thing, describing the taste of the 'Carrie' mango. And, I've noticed that description of this variety can vary greatly from one person to another. This flavor description phenomenon does not happen in any other mango variety, that I'm aware of. For the record, I love this mango variety so much, that I have two planted trees.

The Carrie mango is very popular in island countries like Jamaica in the Caribbean, reportedly, this is due to its 'spicy' undertone flavors.

I'd really like to give it a shot, to describe the 'Carrie' mango eating experience. For example, I never have forgotten the very first time that I tasted a 'Carrie.' I was in my early teens. With all due respect, I think the optimal age for tasting a 'Carrie' for the first time is somewhere around the teen years; everything tastes better, sounds better, looks better...

So, here goes, it looked like a good quality mango at first sight. I noticed the lack of splashy red coloration of other varieties immediately ('Haden'). Everything about the 'cutting with a sharp knife' experience is perfect. I was expecting the standard mango flavor. I put the very first bite ever in my mouth and - woaw - this is not the regular standard mango flavor, what's this? A tiny bit of the regular flavor then a bit more of the 'piney' flavor. Then, it was, woaw, the best colorful way to describe it that comes to mind: this is voodoo, witchcraft taste. In a fraction of a second I was like, what kind of a trip is this? I wasn't sure which way my brain was going to go - hate the flavor - like the flavor - love the flavor, all in a fraction of a second. It was like a flavor experience that hit and kicked me at the same time. Then, the next bite was reminiscent of the first one but with a definite different 'spicy' flavor, and I was like, 'what the heck!' And then came my final, definite reaction: I had made my mind up, this was not a regular tasting mango, this was definitely a witchcraft/voodoo flavored mango and I was hooked! This is definitely not a 'goody two shoes' taste, or 'Dorothy in la la land' taste... The flavor was synonymous with dangerous/scary activities like 'cave diving..,' It was a dangerous, adventurous taste. Right there and then I knew I was addicted. It was almost as if I valued this mango's taste to be one of the highest quality. The weird thing is that I started not being sure if I liked the taste at the first bite and wound up later after finishing the mango, completely and forever addicted to this variety.

In conclusion, this mango has one of those tastes that it is an acquired, addictive, taste. It's a taste that grabs you, possesses you. In hindsight, I realize that I was very fortunate. My first 'Carrie' mango was removed/picked from the tree with perfect timing, at the point/moment when there was a subtle but definite change in the coloration, that indicated that the mango was ready for the picking. Perhaps this correct timing of picking the mango off the tree is what's important in order to truly appreciate/experience the exquisite taste of the 'Carrie.' Perhaps incorrectly timing the picking of the 'Carrie' is what has not allowed some to appropriately evaluate this variety. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143541#msg143541)

--  It is a distinct taset to the flesh and a "piney"/resinous component near the skin that some, or many find off putting.  It is usually a love or hate relationship with the Carrie.  Duncan has a similar component which some describe as an unpleasant taste near the skin.
(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143671#msg143671)

-- For the "American palate" (ie, anglos who've grown up eating apples and pears), the carrie has a tight window of awesomeness, and I'm quite convinced that a good portion of those who report that they dislike it have never tried a carrie in that stage.

The carrie goes from creamy (code word for chalky :-), with a great sweet and tart combo to sweet gelatinous sludge with funky odor and foul aftertaste very quickly. The novice mango eater will wait until the carrie is yellow before eating, but that is a mistake. One should consume the carrie at the very first sign of give. (This does not apply to islanders / latinos, as they often prefer to let it ripen to the point of extreme sweetness.)

Carrie also tend to have a better flavor and consistency (in my opin) if picked green and allowed to ripen indoors. I very rarely find a tree ripened carrie that I like.

It takes some trial and error to get the carrie at the right stage, it does have that strong piney flavor (which is stronger in some years than others), and the flavor can vary from year to year. But overall it's a great mango with many excellent qualities:

 - Incredible flavor and texture when eaten at the right stage
 - Best mango for "processing" (smoothies, ice cream, etc)(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143689#msg143689)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 05:33:36 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Cogshall

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

--  in SoCal but Cogshall is a small compact grower here in my yard. Taste wise it doesn't come close to Pickering but it's a solid producer. I saw a mature Cogshall in USDA Miami this summer under 12'. I would rate it as a solid second tier mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220824#msg220824)

-- 2.5 year old in the ground slow dwarf grower in Socal I would highly recommended who prefer a 6-7 foot tree in our climate fruit is above average (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12492.msg159935#msg159935)

-- This 7 year old Cogshall (taken in July) is only about 6.5 ft. tall(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12492.msg159964#msg159964)

-- Cogshall is a smaller, slow growing tree.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136#msg205136)

-- If space is your main concern, I would plant the cogshall. Easy tree to control, good fruit that has a different but not unfamiliar taste compared to Haden. IMO it is better than haden but has a very short shelf life.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16959.msg215546#msg215546)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- solid producer(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220824#msg220824)

-- Also, I have experienced production issues with Cogshall. It is not nearly as disease resistant as Fairchild.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205157#msg205157)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- My mangos have been ripen early started in later June. 50% of my crop have ripen the others will ripen from now until January In several varieties I've have a second crop. Cogshall is a well adapted mango for SoCal had 28 on my first crop about equal amount in the second.....mango tasting at your house in November ;D(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17207.msg218011#msg218011)

-- Bill, I believe Cogshall is considered "Mid season"... Mine are just starting to ripen now (June 26), I still have several of them that are still pretty green, maybe another week or so...before they're ready.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1840.msg25737#msg25737)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- For me personally, in Florida growing conditions, Cogshall tastes better than Pickering.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221103#msg221103)

-- Fruit is colorful (nicknamed the Easter Egg mango by some) but has some similar flaor issues as the Glenn.  It ihas a propensity to being mild and having at times a washed out flavor.  Texture is soft too, not Carrie "mush" but still softer than I would prefer.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136#msg205136)

-- If I remember correctly, all of my Cogshall colored up when they were ripe even the ones that were in the interior of the tree (just not as fast and not as colorful) as the ones that were getting direct sun. Some other varieties may not color as nice, but all my Cogshall did color up just different intensity...just more colorful on the ones that were on the outside of the tree. To answer your question...

"Will they ripen on the tree? ...Yes, they will ripen on the tree whether they get direct sun or not. You can always try the "feel" test...once they get a little bit of color you can squeeze them gently and if they have some give to them, they should be close to being ripe. Most of mine I waited till they "fell" of the stalk and landed in my wrap. Then I knew they were either ripe or very close to being fully ripe.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1652.msg22707#msg22707)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 06, 2015, 05:52:15 PM
You are way over thinking this.  Are you looking for the "perfect " tree (on paper) or a mango that is the right choice for you?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
You are way over thinking this.  Are you looking for the "perfect " tree (on paper) or a mango that is the right choice for you?

I am just documenting my research. And I am doing it publicly in case this might be useful to anybody else. There is likely no perfect tree for my application, but there looks like there are several good options. Also, I know that I will be doing a bit of 'veering off the path' being in AZ and so the experiences of FL and CA growers won't necessarily apply (CA is probably more applicable though).

For myself, I am narrowing the list down to:
- Carrie
- Julie
- Pickering
- Venus
- Imam Passand
- Mahachanok

But I am continuing to document my research because maybe someone in FL or CA might have slightly different criteria / taste and might make a different decision.

Just collating data as they say :)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 06:40:34 PM
You are way over thinking this.  Are you looking for the "perfect " tree (on paper) or a mango that is the right choice for you?

I am just documenting my research. And I am doing it publicly in case this might be useful to anybody else. There is likely no perfect tree for my application, but there looks like there are several good options. Also, I know that I will be doing a bit of 'veering off the path' being in AZ and so the experiences of FL and CA growers won't necessarily apply (CA is probably more applicable though).

For myself, I am narrowing the list down to:
- Carrie
- Julie
- Pickering
- Venus
- Imam Passand
- Mahachanok

But I am continuing to document my research because maybe someone in FL or CA might have slightly different criteria / taste and might make a different decision.

Just collating data as they say :)

Another aspect to this is that I have room and a hole prepared for one small mango now, I am still re-purposing space in my yard and will be opening up space for 1-2 more small mangoes next year. So even though I will choose one compact mango now, I will be putting in a couple more eventually and I would like to choose mangoes that have differing flavor profiles and ripening times to increase variety and the overall season. Hence the continued research.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 07:59:01 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Cotton Candy

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Cotton Candy, original tree, planted out in the field in the late nineties, and never pruned, is still under 20 feet. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220589#msg220589)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Late Season (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Uh oh.  Look out ladies and gentlemen,  put the children in their rooms.  There may be a new sheriff in town.  This mango is a Keitt crossed with Gary.  If you like high acidic levels in your mango read no further.  At first bite you taste a the flavor of a firm but tamed down Gary (no distinct pina colada flavor) and then all hell breaks loose and here comes the flavor of, yes, I am not kidding, the flavor of cotton c andy on through the finish.  I have eaten a few of these and the flavor profile is consistent. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215124#msg215124)

-- It isn't too often one can legitimately have Cotton Candy for breakfast.  And after eating this mango, I a left wondering if it should be allowed.  This thing is sweet.  Sickly sweet.  Perhaps some alternate names could have been Sucre.  Or The Amputator.  A good looking mango with subtle yellow pink outside, also decent mid sized fruit.  Inside is yellow and, again, mine had slightly gone past its prime.  But in this case, it didn't matter.  First impression were, aroma was positive.  Second thing, it struck me as being very similar in flavour profile go Coconut Cream - excellent.  The knock out punch though is the after taste.  It seemed the closer to th seed I got, the sweeter the mango got.  It is like a mix of Brahm Kai Mea and coconut cream.

I imagine there are some who will not enjoy this mango for being just too sweet.  There are those who cannot imagine a mango that is too sweet.  If so, Cotton Candy may either change your mind or....bethemango of choice for you.

I rate it very highly, top tier.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg216171#msg216171)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 08:10:50 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Duncan

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

--  its a medium sized grower, only moderately or semi-vigorous and can be controlled relatively easily (think 'Glenn' in that regard) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9029#msg9029)

-- While if left unpruned to grow naturally, the tree will get large like most mangoes.  However, if maintained on a good pruning schedule, the tree can be kept quite manageable within the Richard Campbell/Fairchild system.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9031#msg9031)

-- The tree is a moderate grower but can easily be controlled with pruning.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9035#msg9035)

Productivity and Precociousness

--  Its production habits are very good and it has great fungus resistance. Another mango that should have been propagated more than it has been.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9029#msg9029)

-- I would say the production is excellent, better than Edward or Cushman, and fungus resistance is excellent.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9031#msg9031)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

--  The crops are heavy and generally run from July into early August in a later flowering year(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9035#msg9035)

-- 'Duncan' is Early to Late (Extended Harvest.  Always waite for color break before picking). (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Duncan's flavor to me is like a sort of 'milder' Edward, with some other delicate notes it probably inherited from the Pico cross.. It is quite good. I would not place it in the level of Cushman or Dot strictly in terms of flavor but it certainly ranks well. The best quality of Duncan is the sum of all its qualities really;(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9029#msg9029)

-- I feel the flavor is outstanding and much better than Kent, better than Cushman (I have found Cushman to be a little inconsistent), and every bit as equal to Edward or Dot (though the flavor profile is different than Edward or Dot so it is unfair to truly compare as it is a subjective thing at that point). (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9031#msg9031)

-- I pretty much agree with everything Squam has written.  Looking into the Fairchild mango "bible" it is rated Good to Excellent on the Excellent, Good Fair, Poor scale.  They say it is of unknown parentage with Saigon being one of its parents.  The tree was supposedly patented by David Sturrock  of West Palm Beach.  I know Squam's research has some different info on the lineage of this cultivar. In any case, this is a fiberless, orange fleshed fruit with nice flavor.  In my expereince it can be near the top of the tasting table ratings, but is rarely the blue ribbon winner as against some of the top of the top fruits.  It is overall, very worthwhile growing.  I have it....but did not purchase it.  I won it at a Fairchild Mango Festival in a raffle. My tree was severely broken down by Hurricane Wilma, down to a 4 foot stump with no branches.  It took two years to start producing again, but has produced reliably ever since. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9035#msg9035)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 06, 2015, 08:17:22 PM
There areba few AZ growers on here.  Che k with them.  Of what is on your list, i would personally eliminate Julie and Imam Pasand.  Cotton Candy will be an unknown  (it has never been grafted on turpentine rootstock so who knows how it will react and grow) and unless you are going to drive to Florida,  and possibly get lucky depending on the number that may be offered cor sale WHOLESALE,  you may have to wait at least 2 years for it.

I would add Fairchild to your list and possibly Pina Colada and Providence.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 06, 2015, 09:43:13 PM
There areba few AZ growers on here.  Che k with them.  Of what is on your list, i would personally eliminate Julie and Imam Pasand.  Cotton Candy will be an unknown  (it has never been grafted on turpentine rootstock so who knows how it will react and grow) and unless you are going to drive to Florida,  and possibly get lucky depending on the number that may be offered cor sale WHOLESALE,  you may have to wait at least 2 years for it.

I would add Fairchild to your list and possibly Pina Colada and Providence.

Thanks Rob. Yeah, I have seen posts by AZ mango growers here and on phoenixtropicals.com . A lot of them are growing Manila, Keitt and Lemon Zest (others too, but these are the ones I remember prominently off the top of my head). But all these are big trees left to their own devices. And even with a pruning regimen, I would be sacrificing a lot of productivity by excessive pruning for size control with these trees. I have also seen evidence that Carrie can do really well in Phoenix. And since my constraint is a mango that I can keep small for my particular new planting location without sacrificing production, this is one I am strongly considering. Even with the mixed thoughts on the flavor profile (I happen to like piney/resinous flavors in hops, a nice piney-hopped west coast IPA like Green Flash is one of my faves. So I wonder if that love will transfer to mango flavors too? :) ).

But I will definitely put Fairchild, Pina Colada and Providence in my consideration pile. Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 07, 2015, 09:04:30 AM
Much thanks for your time and research starch. Folks like me who are research freaks appreciate it albeit a bit confusing prone to initiating a lot of "what ifs".  You (and that includes you Rob) are outdoor growers in may be in the "perfect" clime, ya'll have it made.  I have 1-3 choice spots in the greenhouse to choose from so even one "aw shit" is too many for me.  I'm too damn old and stubborn to be a pioneer with this stuff.  :D

Gracias....
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 09:48:33 AM
Much thanks for your time and research starch. Folks like me who are research freaks appreciate it albeit a bit confusing prone to initiating a lot of "what ifs".  You (and that includes you Rob) are outdoor growers in may be in the "perfect" clime, ya'll have it made.  I have 1-3 choice spots in the greenhouse to choose from so even one "aw shit" is too many for me.  I'm too damn old and stubborn to be a pioneer with this stuff.  :D

Gracias....

Absolutely Mark! Yes, I am very research minded. If there is information out there on a topic (in this case fruit trees) I want to read up on my options so that I can make an semi-educated decision. There are so many experts and very experienced growers here on TFF that have extremely useful insights on all these trees I am interested in. But it's scattered all over the place (a tree size observation on one thread, a productivity observation on another, etc.). So I was centralizing it so that I could make sense of it, so that I could make a better choice for my situation. And so instead of doing it just for me (say on a personal spreadsheet) I figured that it might be useful to others so that is why I am doing it here in post form.

Glad it is useful, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 07, 2015, 10:05:57 AM
If the place was set up to do it, this thread should be a sticky.

Thanks
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangomandan on September 07, 2015, 10:16:49 AM
For me personally, in Florida growing conditions, Cogshall tastes better than Pickering.
But as starch and others have indicated Pickering has especially fine growing habits, with more disease resistance.


Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0[/url])

Cultivar Name: Cogshall



--  in SoCal but Cogshall is a small compact grower here in my yard. Taste wise it doesn't come close to Pickering but it's a solid producer. I saw a mature Cogshall in USDA Miami this summer under 12'. I would rate it as a solid second tier mango.(REF) ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220824#msg220824[/url])



-- Also, I have experienced production issues with Cogshall. It is not nearly as disease resistant as Fairchild.(REF) ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205157#msg205157[/url])



Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Fruit is colorful (nicknamed the Easter Egg mango by some) but has some similar flaor issues as the Glenn.  It ihas a propensity to being mild and having at times a washed out flavor.  Texture is soft too, not Carrie "mush" but still softer than I would prefer.(REF) ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136#msg205136[/url])

-- If I remember correctly, all of my Cogshall colored up when they were ripe even the ones that were in the interior of the tree (just not as fast and not as colorful) as the ones that were getting direct sun. Some other varieties may not color as nice, but all my Cogshall did color up just different intensity...just more colorful on the ones that were on the outside of the tree. To answer your question...

"Will they ripen on the tree? ...Yes, they will ripen on the tree whether they get direct sun or not. You can always try the "feel" test...once they get a little bit of color you can squeeze them gently and if they have some give to them, they should be close to being ripe. Most of mine I waited till they "fell" of the stalk and landed in my wrap. Then I knew they were either ripe or very close to being fully ripe.(REF) ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1652.msg22707#msg22707[/url])
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 07, 2015, 10:44:57 AM
Then Cogshall it is.  Being in the hill country west of I-35 our RH is low so shouldn't be a problem with disease pressures. Even with my swamp coolers going the RH is below 60% most times.  Plan to go to high pressure flash nozzles/pump in the future. Hopefully that will increase RH.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 07, 2015, 11:28:55 AM
I find Cogshall to be highly variable in flavor, quality and production .   It moreso than not is more simple milder flavor ahd is prone to being watered in flavor.  While the tree is compact,  it would be near the bottom of my list, above possibly only Carrie.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: sunworshiper on September 07, 2015, 12:26:41 PM
What a great list! Nice of you to take the time to compile it. I would have loved such a list when I was selecting my trees, I'm sure it will help many new growers in future. I'd add Manilita to the list. There are pics of my tree and fruit here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg143208;topicseen#msg143208 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg143208;topicseen#msg143208)
It is on par with Pickering for size, but more upright in habit. I can easily maintain it productive at 5'. The flavor might not be top tier, but it is my favorite in my yard. Fragrant,  colorful, disease resistant, every fruit ripens perfectly, and while not complex, I like the flavor a lot. A perfect cogshalls will beat it in flavor, but this year I had about 50 manilitas and around 30 cogshalls, and due to inconsistent ripening in the cogshalls, I'd say around 3 were superior, the rest were beat out by the Manilita in flavor this year.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 01:08:28 PM
What a great list! Nice of you to take the time to compile it. I would have loved such a list when I was selecting my trees, I'm sure it will help many new growers in future.

Thanks sunworshiper! I am glad to go to the effort. Like you said, it will likely (hopefully) be useful to new growers in the future who might have similar constraints to mine.

I'd add Manilita to the list. There are pics of my tree and fruit here:
[url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg143208;topicseen#msg143208[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg143208;topicseen#msg143208[/url])
It is on par with Pickering for size, but more upright in habit. I can easily maintain it productive at 5'. The flavor might not be top tier, but it is my favorite in my yard. Fragrant,  colorful, disease resistant, every fruit ripens perfectly, and while not complex, I like the flavor a lot. A perfect cogshalls will beat it in flavor, but this year I had about 50 manilitas and around 30 cogshalls, and due to inconsistent ripening in the cogshalls, I'd say around 3 were superior, the rest were beat out by the Manilita in flavor this year.

What a beautiful tree! I will definitely add Manilita to the list, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 01:51:18 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Dwarf Hawaiian

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- I think one should add dwarf Hawaiian to this list. The one at Truly Tropical is a compact grower and very productive.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220390;topicseen#msg220390)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- I think one should add dwarf Hawaiian to this list. The one at Truly Tropical is a compact grower and very productive.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220390;topicseen#msg220390)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- I am not sure that what I've had was the 'Rapoza'.  An old map of the trees at Trully Tropical shows two Raposa trees, but I later realized that it was the fruits from those trees that Ms Chris was selling as Dwarf Hawaiian.  Whatever they are they are really good, very early AND very long season--- late March to late June, with a few very green fruits for later.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg28502;topicseen#msg28502)

-- 'Dwarf Hawai'ian' is Very Early and Mid (almost always two harvests, or more); (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

--   I only had a timely one and it had that tang like sizzle to it, sort of like carbonated water - but sweet and aromatic.  The flesh looks stringy but was fine to me.  This is a good mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg197871;topicseen#msg197871)

-- Dwarf Hawaiian continues to please.  What they lack in size, they make up for in earlyness and zippy sweetness. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg198059;topicseen#msg198059)

--  Dwarf Hawaiian was certainly the best of the early mangoes.  Even slightly over ripe it tasted fine.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg199369;topicseen#msg199369)

-- 'Dwarf Hawai'ian', supposedly actually originated in Florida, where it was given the non-politically-correct name, "tete-de-nene."
It tastes like a cross between 'Julie' and 'Kent', and those are its probable parents.  Though I don't care for 'Julie', I do like the flavor of 'Dwarf Hawai'ian' pulp very much, and also the flavor of its skin--- together they are very sweet and spicey.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221706#msg221706)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 01:55:51 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Edgar

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Edgar is a more vigorous grower.  Would be tough to keep small/compact.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220991;topicseen#msg220991)

-- C-18 is Edgar.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg218408;topicseen#msg218408)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Edgar, from Zill, also fruits very well as a small tree.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220593;topicseen#msg220593)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- 'Edgar', supposedly from 'Edward' X 'Gary', and therefore the name, has a long harvest, mainly mid-season, with some early and late.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221706#msg221706)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Finished eating the  rest of the Edgar and wow, it's SO GOOD  :D   Nice size and the flavor is very sweet, smooth, well-rounded and just wonderful. It's been my #2 most delicious mango eating experience of this summer so far, just below the Maha Chanok.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg213000;topicseen#msg213000)

-- My first reaction to tasting this Edgar (Edward x Gary) from Walter Zill's in Boynton Beach, FL, was the same as Borat's: "Wowwah weeeewah! Very nice, I like." I cut it when it was still fairly firm. It has the sweetness of a popsicle, the smoothness of an Edward, its creamy as a Candy Corn, and there's a laid back tropical flavor mystique that is delightful. Eating close to the skin there is a beautiful, subdued resinous finish. I would rate this mango as "Excellent" and say that it is truly delicious and high grade. It did not blow my mind in the way in the way I associate with an outstanding mango, but this one is close. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212967;topicseen#msg212967)

-- I thought my 2 remaining Edgars would have been very overripe at the time of the sampling but there were not. The black spots on the exterior barely penetrated through the skin and into the flesh. Sweet, fiberless, deep orange flesh. I felt they tasted much better  than the Edgars I sampled earlier last week. And considering how they held up well since purchasing ripe  8 days, maybe some commercial growing potential here (?) with this cv. Very enjoyable.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg210655;topicseen#msg210655)

-- Edward x Gary = Edgar. This mango was mostly yellow with some olive green towards the bottom and starting to brown on top. This mango was 4in long and weighed 355g. When I cut the mango open it produced a bright yellow-orange flesh and leaked some thin juice. The flesh was fiberless soft and juicy. There was an alright amount of flesh to eat that surrounded a monoembryonic seed. The taste was like canned peaches with an added tangy finish and a resinous taste near the peel.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg90025;topicseen#msg90025)

-- Edgar - this was said to be the "brother" of Coconut Cream... a supposed Edward Gary cross = EdGar.  A nice mid-size mango with a beautiful pink blush... and a complex, almost "royal" flavor. The tasted reminded me of some mangoes I had in India... but toned down and smoother, more 'Western'.  I knew it was really good because I ate such tiny bites, not looking forward to it being gone. Later, I sliced off the second half and drove to the beach... waded out into the water as the sun set... and slowly nibbled the orange flesh off the skin while looking up at sky. I sadly dropped the peel in the Atlantic ocean, walked back to my car and drove home thinking about finding more mangoes of the same quality. A(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg83917;topicseen#msg83917)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 01:58:47 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Fairchild

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Fairchild seems to be a moderate grower in my yard, at about the same pace as Carrie. Im not sure if this is the universal experience or just my yard. And its a very atrractive tree. No disease issues at all.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207195;topicseen#msg207195)

-- I have two Fairchild trees. They grow faster than Nam Doc Mai #4. Medium fast grower. Not an upright grower. More of a low and wide grower. You can always prune to hold them back to smaller size(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg204660;topicseen#msg204660)

-- So Mallika and Beverly and Fairchild are not very compact on their own, but can be made that way every year.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220580;topicseen#msg220580)

-- I would classify my Fairchild as a moderate grower.  Maybe slightly below average in canopy growth among all of my cultivars.  Definitely not a Julie, Ice Cream or Pickering......but also not a Valencia Pride either. My tree has a considerable spreading habit and is fairly dense.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg84079;topicseen#msg84079)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- How do you feel about its precociousness, productivity, fruit quality?
Above average on the first two. The fruit is not as sweet as some of the new Zills but who wants just really sweet fruits. Alex-Squam says he has solid demand for Fairchild at his grove.
Note that fruits are on the small side.
The fruits are green then get yellowish three days before ripe.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205101;topicseen#msg205101)

-- Fairchild fruits are on the small side and have a nice light taste. Plus the tree is a reliable producer! It won't play games with you.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg204590;topicseen#msg204590)

-- I can vouch for Fairchild. Good reliable producer. Can be pruned to keep it small. But it is not as compact as Pickering and Julie. Pickering produces fairly soon after planting. Lots of people like the Pickering fruit. In your situation I would go for one of these:(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431;topicseen#msg220431)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

? (based on mango reviews it seems like a mid-season ripener?)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- The mangos arent brightly colored and this is good ; less attractive to 2 legged critters....just my limited experience. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207195;topicseen#msg207195)

-- I really like Fairchild.  It does have a strong "muskiness" similar to Indian mangoes which is probably why I like it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136;topicseen#msg205136)

-- Grass flats, the Fairchild is a very good mango, but I didn't find it to be complex or spicy. It had kind of concentrated mango flavor (good thing), but I didn't detect other flavors in it. But it was up against some stiff competition on the complexity scale! I've never had Carrie, so can't comment on that. I have decided on Maha for my yard.  I considered Fairchild - liked it, but the spread out fruiting season and its unique flavor of the Maha made it the winner. I'm going to topwork the Angie. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215176;topicseen#msg215176)

-- Fairchild - smelled a bit like celery on the outside, but none of that carried into the fruit flesh. It was a very good mango. No special flavors - just mango. Good sweet tart balance, with the tip being sweet and the stem end having a pleasant tartness. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215045;topicseen#msg215045)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 02:01:01 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Florigon

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Florigon does very well when kept compact.  Gets huge if you don't prune it yearly.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220584;topicseen#msg220584)

-- I would not categorize Florigon as a vigorous tree.  The fla or in some years can be excellent and some years seems average.  The fruit is on the smaller side and the tree is also (not like Pickering but somewhat like Beverly).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3858.msg53690#msg53690)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Also, saw florigon mentioned above. I have a small tree and it produced a lot of fruit this year. It is early and taste great.  Worth growing. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg217021;topicseen#msg217021)

-- My own Florigons with some PM issues seem to have fruited fine despite some powdery mildew curling the leaves. I didn't spray them. Looks like Florigon will be one of my best early setters. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg11816#msg11816)

-- In Florida, Florigon is one of the best producing mangoes. It will even produce well during "bad" mango years, like during the woeful 2010 season. Nice having fruit on the tree when most others are bare. Really fungus resistant too.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg11823#msg11823)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Florigon is usually pretty early.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg10305#msg10305)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Our early Florigons were washed out. The later ones were quite good, sweet with a citrus-hint. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg217083;topicseen#msg217083)

--  Later that weekend, I tried a bunch more mangos and one was Florigon, and I agree that is a middling good but not superior mango flavor. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1911.msg26664#msg26664)

-- This florigon was 4in long and weighed 394g, it was a flat orange color with black freckling and a large anthracnose streak. This was another mango which had an oily feel to the outside skin. When I cut open the mango it revealed a deep orange color with hardly any excess juice.  The juice that was present adhered to the flesh and was a syrupy consistency. The flesh was smooth with a consistency somewhere between gelatinous and creamy completely absent of fiber. The sugar content seemed mild and the taste seemed like mild honeydew melon. Overall I thought the flesh was of desert quality but it was not really sweet and lacked any distinct flavor characteristics, maybe this was watered down? Worthy of a second try.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg86564;topicseen#msg86564)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 02:03:33 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Honey Kiss

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Honey Kiss shohld be available in a year or so.  Very slow grower. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220991;topicseen#msg220991)

-- This Honey Kiss mango is a tree in Walter Zill's grove. It is a dwarf, late season tree....Walter said it has very good lateral branching and makes a nice canopy.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)

-- Definitely not a big tree.  A very compact grower.  I would not say its a dwarf either, maybe along the lines of Carrie in compactness and possibly a tad smaller than Carrie size-wise.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126428#msg126428)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Honey Kiss is precocious and fruits very well as a small tree.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220593;topicseen#msg220593)

-- They (Honey Kiss) are all fairly precocious, not so much as Pickering but pretty darn close to it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212691;topicseen#msg212691)

--  It will fruit in clusters much of the time and is a heavy, reliable, bearer. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)

-- As Mike said, it bears heavy and in clusters, weighing the branches down to where they weep with the weight of the mangoes.  It doesn't however seem to have the breakage issue that I have seen with Duncan when it is overloaded with fruit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126230#msg126230)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- This Honey Kiss mango is a tree in Walter Zill's grove. It is a dwarf, late season tree. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Just got back from Walter Zill's in Boynton and I ate a ripe Honey Kiss drop with my lunch. It was smaller than a fist and what I consider the ideal size for one person. This mango is juicy, it has nice melts-in-your-mouth flesh texture with no fiber I recall. It tastes sweet and mellow, like a honeydew melon and beneath the skin has just a hint of the Lemon Zest / Orange Sherbet flavors.  Very smooth taste  - I did not encounter one funky, tart, resiny, stringy, spicy, or bitter aspect in it. I would rate it as "excellent" and put it in the mild & sweet corner of the tasting table. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212674;topicseen#msg212674)

-- This mango I have no information on and eventually I'll call over to get some more info on it. This mango was a yellowing green with a small amount of light red blush at the top and felt soft and ready to eat. It was 3.5in long and weighed 238g. When I cut the top off it revealed a pale orange flesh with very little juice adhering to the flesh. The flesh was firm and fiberless with a few long strings noticeable on flesh direct on the peel. There was not a large amount of flesh to eat as this was a smaller sized mango with a big (what seems to be) polyembrionic seed. The taste was mildly sweet and slightly tangy with a peachy nuance and no resinous taste. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg90006;topicseen#msg90006)

-- The ones I tired early last year were a little washed out but the late seasons were excellent.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)

-- Again, it can be picked mature green but will ripen much better and with peak flavor is left on the tree until it begins to or heavily obtains its yellow/golden base color.  When its allowed to color up on the tree, the texture and flavor will be amazing and a distinct honey taste is present. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126230#msg126230)

-- Honey Kiss is a Keitt seedling (if it was from one of my posts and it says Kent, that was a typo).  It does not taste like Keitt (or kent for the matter :) ).  It is a very sweet mango, brightly colored, late season and has a distinct honey aroma and taste.  It is not like Nam Doc Mai in any way which many say has a honey flavor.  The Honey Kiss is more complex, more intense flavor and the hone component is distinct as opposed to just being "as sweet as honey" like the NDM.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211883#msg211883)

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 07, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
You are doing a yeoman's job for every curious mango grower and Murhalinn (spelling?) should make it a sticky
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 03:05:48 PM
Thanks zands!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 07, 2015, 03:30:02 PM
I find Cogshall to be highly variable in flavor, quality and production .   It moreso than not is more simple milder flavor ahd is prone to being watered in flavor.  While the tree is compact,  it would be near the bottom of my list, above possibly only Carrie.

Well, then Cogshall it isn't.  (crap, here we go again)  ;D
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: sunworshiper on September 07, 2015, 04:49:57 PM
What a beautiful tree! I will definitely add Manilita to the list, thanks!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 05:41:42 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Imam Passand

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- I have a couple Imam Passand trees growing, and they are slow/low vigor trees for sure.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183453#msg183453)

-- trailing growth habit and is easily controlled of 8 to 10 ft disease resistant (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183409#msg183409)

-- I have a young growing tree inground and currently flowering. Mines a slow grower and internodal distances seem optimum for compact and bushy growing/ training. Pannicles seems resistance to PM and Anthrac in my yard as well thus far.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183415#msg183415)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Iman Passand I'm still evaluating but seems to do reasonably well in Florida and tastes pretty good.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13834.msg175232;topicseen#msg175232)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- ‘Imam Pasand’ is one of the best mangos of India, ideally suited for dessert, the table and show. The fruit weigh 16 oz or more and are a beautiful smooth oval at maturity. The skin is a dark green, with distinct white highlights over the entire surface. Upon ripening the fruit can attain a deep yellow blush the shoulders and mid-section. The tree has a trailing growth habit and is easily controlled by annual pruning. The properly pruned tree will have a full, spreading canopy of 8 to 10 ft in height and spread. During the fruiting season of June and July, ‘Imam Pasand’ hangs heavy with consistent production. The fruit should be harvested mature green and ripened off the tree at a temperature of 75° to 85° F. Harvesting should occur 2 to 4 weeks before ripening on the tree for the development of the best quality. Properly harvested and ripened fruit have a fiberless, silky flesh with a deep, sweet flavor and distinct citrus overtones. The tree and fruit are tolerant of diseases and require little in the way of special care.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183409#msg183409)

-- This is the Imam Pasand, a mango that sounds like it should come from the Nawabi culture of the North, but in fact is from the deep South. Unlike other recently available varieties it wasn't developed at a research centre, but unlike most of the older varieties , its origin is not entirely obscure either. It comes from Tiruchirapalli (Trichy) where it is said to have been developed by the family that owns the Thathachariar gardens, a once sprawling estate at Srirangam, the island on the Cauvery, where the city's famous Sri Ranganathaswamy temple is located.

How a mango with such a Muslim-sounding name came from such a Hindu identified place is a mystery. Some have argued that it more likely was developed in the erstwhile Nizam's kingdom, perhaps in Masulipatam in Andhra Pradesh, from where it was taken to Tiruchirapalli. Another argument points to Tiruchirapalli's own years of Muslim rule, after the Deccan sultans seized it from the Vijayanagar empire in 1565.

But further confusing matters is its alternate names of Himayuddin or Humayun Pasand, which suggest a Mughal origin. Whatever its origins, there's no doubting the Imam Pasand's quality. It is a large, not too attractive looking mango, mottled green that lightens to blotched yellow-green as it ripens.

It has a hard stone which you can hear rattle inside . The flesh is a light yellow that looks unripe, and in fact, when you first bite in, there's a sourness that makes you think you've made a mistake. But the flesh is ripely smooth, with little stringiness, and then you realise the sourness is really a citrusy tang that adds a zest to the sweetness that spills over your palate.

A friend's father who grew up near Tiruchirapalli tells me that he's heard the Imam Pasand was a cross between a Banganapalli and a Mulgoa. I don't know if this is scientifically accurate, but in taste terms it makes sense. It has the heft of a Banganapalli, the biggest mango of any quality, and its light yellow flesh, but where that tends towards sweet insipidity, with a chalky undertaste, a Mulgoa-like acid bite rescues it, adding lively interest.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183431#msg183431)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 05:43:44 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Jehangir

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- The Jehangir tree that I saw at Fairchild Farm had an obvious dwarf habit. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13099#msg13099)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- I know Zill has been propagating it. Supposed to be a poor producer in Florida. I'm always skeptical of the performance of mangoes introduced from India here.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13088#msg13088)

-- This year was promising in terms of production. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg214490#msg214490)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I believe I tried it at Smather's place (Four Fillies farm)  years ago.  I think Crafton said it was introduced to Florida by Frank Smathers.  It was green skinned and almost white fleshed and wasn't very good.  Had some resinous flavor and not overly sweet.  It didn't have fiber but the flesh was firm. It was totally green on the outside.  Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale).  That's the same as Tommy Atkins.  I don't rememer the tree as being any different in size than the rest of the trees there.  But, I am sure they were all well pruned. I think "exceptional quality" might not apply to this cultivar. Of course, the fruit I had might have been an aberation, but Crafton didn;t say that it was when we tried it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13089#msg13089)

-- Didn't get a chance to ask Richard but I was told it was white fleshed. From Harry's description of it being resinous and you mentioning it's dwarf, it sounds like an excellent tree. I like the stronger 'spicy' flavored mangos and I think a white fleshed one would be cool to have. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13107#msg13107)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 05:46:19 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Julie

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Ohh :-) The other tree is actually a Julie. I updated my post to make it clearer. What's interesting is the drastic difference between the two trees of the same cultivar. And, they are located just 2 miles apart.

Julie is one of the few finicky mango trees that I've experienced. So, even if your well water is alkaline, if you're not growing the Julie, it probably won't matter.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=611.msg7410#msg7410)

-- I'll have to recommend Julie. To me it fits all the qualities from a mango you're looking for. It may not be a top tier like Sweet Tart but on a normal day it's pretty darn good and yummy. No need to tip it for it to develop a "busy" shape and since you're in AZ, the drier conditions should discourage disease. My 9 yr old Julie tree is barely 8 ft tall without any height pruning. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220348;topicseen#msg220348)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- The julie mango is an interesting mango in that it can either be a

Phenomenal mango with high precocity, high productivity, and multiple blooms leading to a long season

  -- OR --

A finicky, unfruitful, disease-prone tree that is difficult to maintain and keep healthy

In talking with Gary Zill about my observations on the Julie, he indicated that the success or failure of growing the Julie depends largely on the soil in which it's grown. When grown in alkaline soil or when irrigated with calcium rich well water, the Julie can be a pain in the neck to grow. But when grown in neutral soil, the Julie is very productive and relatively care-free.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=611.msg7404#msg7404)

-- Julie tastes great but is not the most productive cultivar, at least in south florida.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220390;topicseen#msg220390)


-- My 9 yr old Julie tree is barely 8 ft tall without any height pruning. 100-150 mangoes per season for the past 4 years.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220348;topicseen#msg220348)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- mid (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Yep, that denser flesh is what I would call 'creamy'. There is an offspring of the Julie called a Gary which has even denser/creamier flesh. The Gary was used as the natural pollinator for many of the new Zill mango releases. Personally I much prefer a creamy mango over one that's 'watery'. That's why I'm going so berzerk over all the new Zill releases!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2142.msg29450#msg29450)

-- It has a complex, fruity-resinous flavor profile that I'd place in the Caribbean (e.g., Julie/Graham/Bombay) corner of the tasting table.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg210840;topicseen#msg210840)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 05:48:22 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Leo #2

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Here in SoCal ... Leo#2 ... are compact slow growers.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220429;topicseen#msg220429)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- The Leo #2 smells absolutely amazing and it has great color with yellow as the base and a sunset red blush. There are lenticels, otherwise this fruit can be as beautiful as a Maha Chanok ripened in the sun. The Leo #2 is an excellent tasting fruit with high Brix the last time I tested it. These fruit are not ripe yet but I'll get a Brix reading on them when they ripen up. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13514.msg171283#msg171283)

-- I just cut open the Leo#2 and it was soooo sweet. It had a Brix of 21.5% but tasted even sweeter because it lacked a bit of acidity to balance out the sweetness. Both my daughters and my wife loved. I liked it very much but wish it had a bit more acid. This fruit has a small amount of fibers, mostly concentrated around the seed. The flavor is hard to pin but to my palate had hints of Edward with a bit of Vanilla on the back end. Overall a great mango. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13514.msg171409#msg171409)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 07, 2015, 05:50:35 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Mahachanok

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Mahachanok will get larger than Pickering. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220991;topicseen#msg220991)

-- I have seen them slow and moderate growers, it seems to vary based on location.   They can probably be kept in the 10 - 12 foot range with proper pruning.  I think you would do better at 15 feet but thats your call. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207228#msg207228)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Pickering will give more fruit as a smaller tree than Mahachanok. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220991;topicseen#msg220991)

-- MahaChanok fruits very well as a small tree--- almost as precocious as Pickering.   (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220593;topicseen#msg220593)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Mahachanok is known to have an extended fruiting season.   It is possible to have fruits spanning from as early as mid June through mid August.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215115;topicseen#msg215115)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Hi Clay, I'm really bad at describing mango flavors and taste...but here goes...its very sweet, no fiber till you get very close to the seed. The flavor is slightly stronger than my Glenn but not over powering. I prefer it over my Cogshall and I really like Cogshall...it has a little spicy overtones to it...not strong though. All I know is I really enjoy the taste and so does my husband. I too like the shape, very different than the mango varieties I have. These first (4) mangoes from this tree is small...I'm hoping the sizes will be larger next year since I planted it inground...depending on what type of winter we have. Thanks...Good luck to us all this winter that gets the occasional freeze...hope its not a bad one  :-\   

Hi Obet, for me at least when I say a little 'spicy' overtones I definitely do not mean resinous or turpentine...I do not like the flavor of Carrie ( and its due to this "off" herb, medicial flavor and I'm not a fan of it) so when I say it has a little spice what I mean is its not bland or just sugary sweet, it has some nice mild spice (think of a hint of say cinammon,lol)...it has a very nice flavor that I like (very pleasant tasting). I have come to the conclusion I do not like strong and overly spicy...herb, medicinal overtones in mango...just prefer the regular sweet, fiberless mango with a good overall nice flavor with that tropical flavors you get...anything very strong I'm not big fan of...(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12031.msg160731#msg160731)

-- Maha Chanok - has the most complex and elegant flavor, more subtle than a Sweet Tart(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg215433;topicseen#msg215433)

-- the Maha Chanok...well the Angie has just had its death sentence I think! I let my husband have the first taste, and he made a hilarious face and proclaimed  "holy moly that's the sweetest mango I've ever tasted! Starts kind of coconutty and tart and then explodes with sweetness!" - I was most amused watching him. What did I think? One of the best mangos I've ever had! Very complex flavor, incredible sweetness near the skin, a good balance of sweet and subacid, flesh was firm and smooth with no fiber or mushiness - just outstanding! Not sure I taste cola syrup exactly, but do understand the comparison. There was absolutely no resinous or bitter flavor.  I thought the cut skin had a slightly piney scent, but there was no pine in the flavor. There is a distinctive scent to the fruit overall not unpleasant, fruity with a hint of earthiness, hard to pin down, and mostly stood out to me as smelling different than it tasted. Here's a pic of the fruit(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg213980;topicseen#msg213980)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:21:29 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Manilita

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- mangageable growth habit(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16028.msg203911#msg203911)

-- Another thing about Manilita....for a "dwarf" tree, it sure has an upright growth habit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179402#msg179402)

-- It is on par with Pickering for size, but more upright in habit. I can easily maintain it productive at 5'.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221117#msg221117)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- It might be a very reliable tree meaning it fruits well each year. Ask Mike Bender(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179370#msg179370)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16028.msg203911#msg203911)

-- Manilita is a Early mango from the west coast of México (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179246#msg179246)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I just tasted my first home grown fruit and I was pleasantly surprised.  It had a very nice flavor and I was really expecting much less based upon other reviews here on the forum.  Is this a blue ribbon winner, a taste sensation?  No....its not, but is very respectable in overall eating experience, and for those that want an early, smaller, colorful skinned fruit that has a very manageable growth habit, this mango is worth the effort, in my humble opinion.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16028.msg203911#msg203911)

-- The flavor might not be top tier, but it is my favorite in my yard. Fragrant,  colorful, disease resistant, every fruit ripens perfectly, and while not complex, I like the flavor a lot. A perfect cogshalls will beat it in flavor, but this year I had about 50 manilitas and around 30 cogshalls, and due to inconsistent ripening in the cogshalls, I'd say around 3 were superior, the rest were beat out by the Manilita in flavor this year.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221117#msg221117)

-- My Manilita may be plain flavor wise, but it is a joy in the garden. Every fruit ripens unblemished and perfect, no uneven ripening, and it requires no spraying. Very easy tree. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211908#msg211908)

-- The flavor was in my opinion not top tier - not as good as an Edward. But it was quite a bit better than a store bought Honey mango. It is in the same flavor category, sweet and tart, but it has a richer flavor and is distinctly coconutty. It has a bit of pine flavor, but not so much as to be unpleasant. When I bought the tree, nobody had any comments on its flavor, but I purchased it because it is one of the smallest dwarfs and can be maintained very narrow. As you can see, the tree is staying quite small.  Since I like Honey mangos, I'm quite pleased.

My only complaint about it is that it seems prone to fruit split. It set really well - 20 to 30 fruit, most of which grew to the size of small plums. But with all those rains we got a month ago, all but 4 fruit split=( But it ripens early, so many years it will be before we start the summer rains. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg77899#msg77899)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:24:15 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Nam Doc Mai #4, Nam Doc Mai 4, NDM #4, NDM#4, NDM4

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- nam doc mai is compact(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431;topicseen#msg220431)

-- Low spread out shape of Nam Doc Mai #4 when young --3 years. I have been tip pruning it. I have two of them (young) that spread wide like this. The plastic pipe in photo is 63". My older NDM is ball shaped. So the NDM tendency is low, not upward and tall like a Haden or Kent(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6784.msg88478#msg88478)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Also included is my little NDM#4 (3.5 ft high) putting forth lots of nice fruit for its size.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1321.msg17598#msg17598)

-- A regular NDM tree grows more quickly than NDM #4 and the #4 seems to set more fruit. NDM #4 seems to be more prone to fruit splitting and I've seen conjectures like too much fertilizer nitrogen, soil conditions and variable water availability while maturing fruit to explain this.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2123.msg29303#msg29303)

-- My observation is consistent with NDM4 being more prone to splitting, but it seems to affect the early crop to a much greater degree. The NDM4 seems to poop out the first crop super early, and 90% of them split. The summer crop seems to fare better.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2123.msg29368#msg29368)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- NDM - mid (there are some people who have gotten it to produce in the off season (November/December)(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg10190#msg10190)

-- A number of varieties will throw off-season bloom, typically southeast Asian descended cultivars but I've had Indian, Egyptian and Florida varieties do it to on rare occasion. Chokanon is the most famous for this but Thai Everbearing does it frequently as well (and tastes much better). Nam Doc Mai and others too. This is irregular though.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg218431#msg218431)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- NDM -nam doc mai is compact but the mango has straight sweet honey taste. I would plant it only if I have the more complex ones that also have tart component. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431;topicseen#msg220431)

-- NDM is just kind of a plain sweet mango.  No complexity. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg204428#msg204428)

--  NDM is a delicious and adding an asian mango , if you dont have one, may be the thing to do. Im not sure why NDM isnt a firat choice other than splitting issues, which may not be a problem in your area (my neighbors tree hasnt had a problem )(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207195#msg207195)

-- NDM is a "basic" sweet mango.  Good for someone who is just looking for that however if you are looking for something more in terms of complexity from an Asian/Thai, look towards a Mahachanok. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207198#msg207198)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:26:07 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Neelam

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- It's unfortunate because the trees(Neelam) are nice, dwarfish, precocious and productive even in the interior, and very late season too.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215346#msg215346)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- precocious and bears in bunches (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215262#msg215262)

-- It's unfortunate because the trees(Neelam) are nice, dwarfish, precocious and productive even in the interior, and very late season too.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215346#msg215346)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- late season (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215258#msg215258)

-- It's unfortunate because the trees(Neelam) are nice, dwarfish, precocious and productive even in the interior, and very late season too.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215346#msg215346)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I nominate Neelam for the worst-tasting mango.  I've heard its off-flavor described as "carrot."  I'd call it "just plain nasty."  This was another mango where I fell for the Richard Campbell hype without tasting it.  Maybe if you had 50 mango trees, you could include Neelam, but if you only have four trees like me, you definitely don't want Neelam.  I don't care that it's a late-season mango--I'm chopping mine down!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215258#msg215258)

-- I've never tasted carrot it in. More like smooth, light, spicy sweet with a lil bit of tang. But hey, to each their own :).
For other reasons it quickly fell out of favor with me (small fruit, large seed, seed germinating in ripening mangoes on the tree!!!!)(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215262#msg215262)

-- lol.  This is how I felt about mallika...Just nasty--don't even want to try another one--just not for me.

The neelam had what I describe as a vegetably taste....I almost said I liked them...then the aftertaste hit me, and I took neelam of the list.  I have been called crazy, but I also detect this aftertaste in cushman.  To each his own, but tasting is so important....especially with trees RC has recommended(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215328#msg215328)

-- 'Neelam' is appreciated by those who want SOUR GREEN MANGOS FOR PICKLES, well into late season.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221708#msg221708)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:29:13 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Peggy

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Here in SoCal ... Peggy ... Are compact slow growers.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220429;topicseen#msg220429)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Jim, mangofang & Eunice admiring the multi-grafted Peggy mango tree ... Jim calls this Peggy tree "the always reliable"(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg44947;topicseen#msg44947)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- I have a second crop of cogshall, 76, 1 Edward, 10-15 Duncans, 4 ST, a bunch of manga blanc, 10 Peggy recommend this mango as a nice late mangos for you guys, and few other stuff. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17319.msg219417#msg219417)

-- In SoCal we have a different schedule. Here is a list of early mangos. Mid-October - November , Peggy(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6069.msg80488#msg80488)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

--  Peggy brix 23 on ataulfo grafted last year(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?board=1.0)

-- It seems I had spoken too soon regarding Peggy not having rich flavor.  The 2nd of those two mangoes sat out a week longer, without any sign of breaking down, tasted fantastic.  It was sweeter and whatever acidity the 1st fruit had was not detected at all in this mango.  I dare to venture a turf war in say this mango is better than Pickering ;D

Absolutely worth growing for SoCal, don't know if it's proven elsewhere.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45733;topicseen#msg45733)

-- Jim told me that Peggy's is called Ultimate, or something like that, because there is another variety in Florida by the same last name of Winter(20222). The Early Gold we had was a chance seedling of that variety from Captain Bucklew. I will call Jim and confirm. I think both of those mangos are excellent. Like I said, I don't know why they havent been propagated....they are superior mangos in the same category as Dot or Fairchild.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45135;topicseen#msg45135)

-- Of the mangoes sampled that day, many of us agreed Peggy was clearly the breadwinner.  Not as rich compared to others I've had, but outstanding flavor nonetheless.  Very sweet with a light sub-acid balance that sits just right, very juicy flavor - does that make any sense?

Monoembryonic seed
Firm flesh
Fiberless
Sweet & nice aroma even before cut open(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg44951;topicseen#msg44951)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:31:59 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Pickering

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- very compact tree yet good vigor, great production, good looking tree with dense dark green foliage and short internodes, (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220559;topicseen#msg220559)

--  My Pickering tree has behaved like a dwarf--in the ground almost 4 years and still only six feet tall.  (I love that tree!) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220425;topicseen#msg220425)

--  Pickering is the most compact of them all. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220390;topicseen#msg220390)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Pickering will give more fruit as a smaller tree than Mahachanok. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220991;topicseen#msg220991)

-- all fairly precocious, not so much as Pickering but pretty darn close to it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212691;topicseen#msg212691)

--  Pickering produces fairly soon after planting.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431;topicseen#msg220431)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16027.msg203908#msg203908)

-- It matures relatively early in mango season. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg207100#msg207100)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Not an eye catching or pretty mango. Would not sell well due to the color alone. Taste-wise, this is the best mango I have eaten this year. The flesh is firm and has an outstanding coconut-pineapple flavor. Reminds me a bit of a good Julie mango but this is much better. How did I wait so many years to grow this? (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27523#msg27523)

-- Noel - have you noticed if you let the Pickering stay on the tree longer than normal and become fully ripe that it loses that pineapple (or hint of tartness) and takes on a stronger coconut (or "tropical") nuance/flavor ?(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27527#msg27527)

-- I picked this one when it was still hard as a rock and it had more coconut flavor with a slight pineapple nuance. I picked one today that was a bit soft so I will let you know if there is any difference. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27528#msg27528)

-- The Good:  The first was properly ripened Pickering and was one of the best mangoes I have had so far this year.  It was sweet and creamy...it was very good.  The competition included:   Coconut Cream, Edward, Glenn, and Mahachanok (knocked off of the tree by my dog prematurely and counter ripened, not a fair test).  I may be eating my CC under ripe.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16027.msg203908#msg203908)

-- MANGO VARIETY PICKERING
By Walter Zill


"Beginning as a chance seedling sprouting in the grove planted by Laurence Zill in Boynton Beach, FL, it first caught my attention about 1980 when I saw about a half dozen fruit being supported by an unusually small plant having a trunk diameter of about one inch, with at total height about four feet, and numerous branches that bore small fruit.  The fruit were not impressive in any other way other than exisitng in abundance on such a tiny first fruiting seedling.  They turned bright yellow when ripe, and were suprisingly firm.  The flavor tasted to me somewhat like Carrie or Julie, and the growth habit known as Sophie Frey.  Animal habits being what they are, I surmise that a seed got transplanted some few feet west of a large fruiting Carrie tree where it germinated in the undercover beneath the limbs of an Irwin tree.  In 1983 a severe freeze caused great damage in the grove, killing back some mango limbs that were up to three inches in diameter, and resulting in nearly every mango leaf on the premises turning brown.  That exception, finding green leaves on that little seedling, caught my undivided attention.  I thought perhaps the plant had more resistance to cold than other mango varieties, but subsequnet seasons have shown damage much like other mangos when the temperature dips below freezing.  Eventually the seedling was transplanted  to where it could demonstrate it qualities.  It grew compactly and fruited heavily, fruit clinging  fairly well on the tree when ripe, with little bruising when they dropped.  When the tree grew larger, and in a season when fewer fruit set, the fruit weighed up to about two pounds, though average normal season weight is near one pound.  There came a time when Dr. Wayne Pickering inquired of me about having a mango named for him.  Since that variety had proven of sufficient worth to merit a good name, I sent a box of fruit from it to him to get his reaction.  When they ripened, and he had fairly sampled them, his response was, "That's my baby!".  So the name "Pickering" stuck.  When fully ripe it's among the sweetest mangos, with a texture sutable for slicing and dicing, and it's fine fibers providing desrable bulk.  As trees were multiplied and put into commercial plantings, it has provem very productive from compact trees.  Many who have become familiar with eating the "Pickering" often specify it for the eating qualities they like. It matures relatively early in mango season." (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg207100#msg207100)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:33:48 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Pina Colada

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- At least in my yard the new Zill Pina Colada is a slow, non-vigorous grower. In fact It does not grow fast enough for me! The fruits taste great, an 8.5 out of 10 but are small. Maybe I got a dwarfish pina colada. Maybe others have different experience.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211858#msg211858)

-- I don't see Pina Colada as being that small in the long run.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211861#msg211861)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- My Pina Colada tree had a full bloom and bore one (1) fruit.  It was unevenly ripened.  I cut off two main branches and am topworking the tree into a more productive variety.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg221055#msg221055)

-- I was optimistic when I planted my Pina Colada mango tree.  It has been in the ground for about two years.  It had a full bloom this year and zero fruit set.  In comparison other trees of the same age have produced over 30 mangos.  I plan on giving Pina Colada another year, but I am doubtful of the tree's ability to be productive in my yard.  In preparation to say farewell, I grafted two scions of a Carrie mango to the trunk of the Pina Colada.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg152754#msg152754)

-- Patience Grasshopper.   You need to give tgese trees at leadt 5 years.  If this is your thinking, you better get that axe out andbuy a bunch of pine trees.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg152756#msg152756)

-- Those two above photos were a joke. My PC is still small and is slow growing. I had two bland fruits from it last year. This year - a profusion of beautiful panicles that look better than what I see on other mango trees, but no fruits stayed. Might have been raining and fungus hit them.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg153104#msg153104)

-- The Pina Colada was productive when it was 40-14 and mother tree be productive since it has been named Pina Colada.  I have seen the mother tree however I am not at liberty to post any pictures of it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg153122#msg153122)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

?

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I've only tasted 6-8 Pina Colada mangos over the last few years.  Last week I ate two, one of which was a bit tart for my taste. The other was possibly the finest damn thing I have ever tasted. I would compare it to mango candy, except that no candy could be that good.

I wonder if Patrick's care regimen was as successful with his Pina Colada as it was with Lemon Zest.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg154394#msg154394)

-- It can be very good if left to ripen to the proper stage prior to harvest.  Would I rank it in the tops, don't think so.  Texture is very soft.  Picked to early, it is very chalky and will not have the proper flavor profile it should have.  If space is limited and a factor, I would think hard about planting one.  If space is more on the unlimited side, then stick one in the ground.

As for small mango and big seed, I am also not in the boat.  Its all about the quality first.  Sweet Tart is smaller in size with an obnoxious seed but I will highly recommend it because of its flavor.  I would rather eat two amazing mangoes than one average mango just based on flesh to seed ratio.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg178997#msg178997)

-- I ate my first Pina Colada fruit yesterday. It was a bit tart similar to Sweet and tart mango. Did not taste like a pina colada cocktail. My tree is slow growing about 5.5 ft tall and the fruits are small. I give it a high rating but its is based on just one fruit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16302.msg207474#msg207474)

-- Same as Mr Clean, my Pina Colada is a slow and frustrating grower. Easily the worst grower of my new Zills which are also LZ and ST (Sweet Tart). My pina colada also having a bizarrely wide diameter at the base at the graft. Also having a branching out that is 50% of optimum. For comparison I have another grafted tree next to it, planted at same time, that is growing 3 times better. I will post photos.

I hope my pina colada is not on some kind of dwarfing rootstock. Doubtful that it is on a Zill experimental dwarfing rootstock but I wonder.....

pina colada had a spectacular bloom this spring but held no fruits. Hopefully this big bloom means some fruit for 2015. But with such slow growth I hope I have the future orientation to remove all 2015 fruits except one. On iffy trees there is a low anxiety, I am always thinking/wondering ahead about what it will do next year. Anxiety about wasted space in my non-infinite size yard because I do have non-mango trees in pots that need to be in ground but I lack the space. Make that wasted in ground growth time too for these deserving but presently potted fruit trees.

BTW I think it is always good idea to have an army reserve of "new soldiers" growing in pots in case a fruit tree has a disaster or tastes awful. If you never plant them you can always sell them. I recently sold a muscadine grape I was waiting to plant that had great new growth on it simply because four months ago I stepped it up from the original one gallon to a three gallon pot. Thus the buyer has a better head start, She bought it to have grape vines covering part of a garden gazebo, to cool it in summer.

Anyone know when Pina Colada fruits tend to come in? Mid-season or outside mid-season?(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg154020#msg154020)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:36:12 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Providence

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Providence seems to have a similar growth habit to Fairchild.  From the various treees I have seen, it is compact and well shaped.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179388#msg179388)

-- It has much slower growing habit though Walter would not call it a dwarf by any means.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126110#msg126110)

-- Tree seems to be a compact grower (not saying it is a dwarf but a compact growth habit.  It is not a vigorous grower and I dont feel it will make a large tree when fully mature).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126217#msg126217)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- This is a late-season mango, that gets very large, on  par with a 'Kent'  if not better..(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126110#msg126110)

-- Berto, the last one I got from Walter was at the end of the first week in August...he still had more hanging on the tree and was keeping them for himself as he really likes these...they do need to be picked at the correct time, a little green I believe and be aloud to ripen up for up to a week maybe more as far as I remember..(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126123#msg126123)

-- (REF) (http://)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- The providence I had from Walter's last summer was outstanding!  Huge fruit, and it ripened evenly--a good tart/sweet ratio, and good fiberless texture IIRC.  Ordered a tree shortly thereafter. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179529#msg179529)

-- To me Providence blows firchild away in terms of flavor, but I love a mango that has a tart component to balance the sweet.  It is also a much bigger mango than fairchild.  The one I had from walter's last summer was big enough to eat for a few days.  Very tasty!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179366#msg179366)

-- Does it taste better, that is subjective.  Both are very good to excellent however two totally different profiles.  Fairchild is an overall very sweet mango with very little to no level of "tartness"/acidity  while Providence has a great balance between sweet and acid.  The longer Providence is left on the tree the more sweetness it takes on.  It can also be eaten green.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179388#msg179388)

-- Providence is a large mango, similar in size to a large Keitt.  It can be picked mature green or with some color, tastes best when picked with some color however it may have some issues if left on the tree too long.  Flavor, to me, is like a perfectly ripe Kent crossed with a perfectly ripe Keitt.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126217#msg126217)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 10:38:11 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Rosa

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Rosa, from Brazil, does well kept compact.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220584;topicseen#msg220584)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1004.msg12451#msg12451)

-- 'Rosa' season is still on (comment made on Apr 27), but will be finished in about a week.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg14429;topicseen#msg14429)

-- 'Rosa' is Very Early and Early (sometimes into mid--- extended harvest); (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- ROSA MANGO, also called ROSA OF BAHIA or ROSA OF PERNAMBUCO! Is a traditional Brazilian variety, very early cultivar and is harvested before Tommy Atkins, Very good flavor and aroma. It is totally resistant to Fusarium (malformation).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1004.msg12451#msg12451)

-- I like 'Rosa' a lot, because I grew up eating it in northern Brazil, and because I like really strong-tasting mangos.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg10959;topicseen#msg10959)

-- Never had, nor even heard of Pope or Excel.  I did have a chance to taste (thanks to Murahilin) the Rosa, Tess and Hawaiian Dwarf.  Since these were the first mangoes of the season, not purchased from the store, they enjoy the glow of that status and get some additional points  for being so early. Kinda like my uncle who always said I was his favorite (but really only) nephew.

All of these mangoes fall into the category, for me, as great, when there are no other mangoes around, but would never even be given a thought during the regular mango season. My least favorite was Hawaiian Dwarf.  It was small and somewhat firm and predominantly green on the outside.  I wondered if it was even ripe from its exterior feeling and look.  However, inside it was clear that it was ripe. It had been refrigerated.  So that could have affected its overall eating quality. I liked the other two more, but neither had any really superlative qualities.  I did try eating the skin with the Rosa as was suggested.  That did impart a small amount of resinous twang that Har inidcates that he refers in his mangoes. For me, the skin is a bit too tough to really give me any enjoyment in the eating of the otherwise softer, succulent mango flesh. I will not be making a habit of eating the skin on this or any other mango in all probability.  But, as Har indicated, there is no biterness in the Rosa skin....which I will be taking his word is different than what you get when you eat the skin of other mangoes.

On the early mango front, I forgot another of my very advanced cultivars.  Its the Kau Dwarf out of Hawaii. Its a red skinned cultivar that I thonk has some commercial promise here.  As I recall now, it has been the first to fruit (after Rosigold when it fruits) in previous years.
(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg12164;topicseen#msg12164)

--
'Rosa' is very firm, moderately fibrous, sweet-tart and very resinous if you eat the skin with the pulp--- delicious, with none of the bitterness found in the skins of most other varieties.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg11321;topicseen#msg11321)

-- Rosa is similar to Palmer mango in taste!(My opinion) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg11023;topicseen#msg11023)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 08, 2015, 10:45:24 AM
Thomson is another California variety small to medium tree. The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. It's a mid to late season fruit in SoCal October to December
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Delvi83 on September 08, 2015, 11:18:57 AM
How tall can they become?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 08, 2015, 12:47:34 PM
15-20' depends on the rootstock but it's hard to find a better tasting mango in November December. 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: johnb51 on September 08, 2015, 01:13:23 PM
Thomson is another California variety small to medium tree. The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. It's a mid to late season fruit in SoCal October to December

Thomson, Villa Senor, Peggy, Leo#2--I'm very curious about these California varieties.  Where were they developed, by whom, and from what parents?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 08, 2015, 01:22:22 PM
Thomson is another California variety small to medium tree. The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. It's a mid to late season fruit in SoCal October to December


Thomson, Villa Senor, Peggy, Leo#2--I'm very curious about these California varieties.  Where were they developed, by whom, and from what parents?


here is some info from CRFG http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)

Leo Manual is a legend here in Socal he has a handful of great varieties that he's develop for years.... here is a write up on him and Jim

http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070805/news_lz1hs05mango.html (http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070805/news_lz1hs05mango.html)
 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 01:22:51 PM
Thomson is another California variety small to medium tree. The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. It's a mid to late season fruit in SoCal October to December

Added to the list, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:27:46 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Rosigold

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Based on my limited experience i would add Rosigold to the list. Mine is about 8 feet tall and its growth is pretty compact.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220345;topicseen#msg220345)

-- has a dwarf habit(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7408#msg7408)

Productivity and Precociousness

--  It's highly productive, precocious,(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7408#msg7408)

--  I have one that is about 3 feet tall and loaded with fruit.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7453#msg7453)

-- (On the subject of Pickering vs. Rosigold) From my experience, there is no comparison between the two as far as production and disease resistance.  Pickering wins hands down.  At my house, without spraying heavily, multiple blooming Rosigold will not mature many, if any fruits.  Even with spraying the Rosigold, while not having to spray the Pickering, I think Pickering is slightly better in overall flavor,  Of course, that is subjective and as we always say....taste before deciding.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7464#msg7464)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- I would term the 'regular season' as typically beginning in March for the earliest stuff along the coastal regions(Rosigold, Rosa, Edward, etc) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg218431#msg218431)

-- I'll take it! This to me is definite proof that Rosigold can produce ripe/mature fruit in February, thank you mangomandan for the unexpected good news.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg95426;topicseen#msg95426)

-- My 'Rosigold' mango has been consistently fruiting in the first few days of ..March(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg95224;topicseen#msg95224)

-- Although Rosigold is consistently the one of the earliest, if not the earliest mango maturing at my place, it is most usually a March to April event.  It can mature in February but that is not the norm.  So for all you mango season extending enthusiasts......you better get that miracle mango to start "miracling" though out the winter months.  Good luck to you.  I haven't had the benefit of the miracle as of yet.  But then again, its only been about 18 or so years, so I'll continue to be patient. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg95288;topicseen#msg95288)

-- Here's another tree I really like -- the Rosigold. Year after year, this tree sets 2 crops, one maturing in April and the other maturing in the summer.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7408#msg7408)

-- (More on Pickering vs. Rosigold) I'd agree with Harry that the Pickering is a better choice. The pickering is an incredible tree. It's a jawdropping sight to see an older pickering with 1000's of bb-sized fruits. However, having fruits in April (a characteristic of the rosigold) is quite awesome. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg7469#msg7469)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I've eaten a couple Rosigolds this month. The first, very ripe, was just sweet enough to justify eating the whole fruit.

The second, just barely ripe, did taste pretty good, nice blend of sweet and tart.   Maybe not quite as "mangoey" as I'd prefer.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg114942#msg114942)

-- Then was a first season Rosigold. Nice strong flavor (we have had almost no rain on the east coast of florida this summer), but a little disappointing. I did not think it was very sweet. Maybe the ones later will be better.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15633.msg210608#msg210608)

--  I have only tried one early rosigold, and found it good, but not great--kinda rubbery and not complex. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9681.msg138617#msg138617)

-- During June or July your right Rosigold would be just a decent mango, nothing to write home about...But in April, its an excellent mango thats far better then anything else available. I had my first one of the season yesterday and it was outstanding. It certainly gets bonus points for fruiting in April when its the only mango.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1045.msg13347#msg13347)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:30:37 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Son Pari

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Son Pari and White Pari, both from India, fruit very well as small, compact trees.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220593;topicseen#msg220593)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- mid and late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Son Pari is medium large, yellow outside and orangey inside.  This mango has a good turpentine like flavour but is not as rich as a Bombay or other Indian mangoes.  I enjoyed it and certainly had a sharp contrast to Autumn.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg213774#msg213774)

-- Sonpari: Alphonso x Baneshan(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12971.msg164961#msg164961)

-- A friend in Cali sent me this about the Son pari - The Son Pari mango is from Gujrat western part of India. Similar in climate where Kesar comes from. Son Pari means Golden Angel in Indian so it must be good.  Son Pari is hybrid developed at Navasari university in Gujrat India(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9249.msg118058#msg118058)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:32:41 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Thomson

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Thomson is another California variety small to medium tree.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221204#msg221204)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- It's a mid to late season fruit in SoCal October to December(REF) (http://)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

--  The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221204#msg221204http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221204#msg221204)

-- Found out from and old article that the varieties ;' T-1' and 'Thomson' were seedlings that Paul T. took from Old Mango that was on the property when he bought the place in Vista. That old tree was called Edgehill because his property was at end of Edgehill street at the time. That's very cool that your saving some of those varieties hopefully will grow strong for you!
Joe, there has to be a treasure drove of Mangos down in that area with all those people experimenting with them for all those years back when! Looking through the old F.G. I found out Orton H. Englehart registered a Ortonio avocado witch I had never heard of compared to Creamhart which I have heard of! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg86475;topicseen#msg86475)

-- Scott, Jim Nitzel told us last year that Leo took cutting from Mr. Thomson and  Colonal Bucklew yards as well as other influential SoCal mango growers. They have quite a large selection that are not publish in the Fruit Gardener. For example, the Giant Rose is a large creamy, sweet, fruity mango  with a peachy taste.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg86413;topicseen#msg86413)

-- JF - thanks for the Peggy/Ultimate clarification.  You guys speak so highly of Thomson mangoes, I wonder how much flavor improvement from the Manila?  I like Manila but that's because they're always available.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45205#msg45205)

-- Thomson T-1 mango - according to Leo, Paul Thomson preferred this mango many times over his other commercialized cultivar, Thomson mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg44947;topicseen#msg44947)

-- Thompson-(syn. Thomson Large Seedling)
Origin Vista, Paul Thomson, 1966. Manila seedling, polyembryonic. Tree spreading, vigor dependent upon rootstock. Fruit small to medium, (6-12 oz.), yellow, shape flat, to eight inches. Resists mildew. High fiber under chemical fertilizer regime. Season early, long (September-November), ripens well indoors if picked prematurely. For coast(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:34:54 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Venus

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Venus is quite good and indeed a small, low vigor tree. Would probably be a good choice.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179243#msg179243)

-- Venus is a seedling of ZINC.  It look to be a compact grower but as many of the newer varieties,  it is somewhat early to tell for sure.  I am not sure it is as compact as Honey Kiss but its close.  It appears for now that the parent, ZINC is a much more vigorous grower. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179262#msg179262)

-- You may also want to consider the Venus.  From what I have seen, I don't feel it will be a vigorous grower and I think it can easily be maintained.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211861#msg211861)

-- Venus seems to have a good structure and not real vigorous, while it is tough to tell as the variety is not that old, Venus looks to have the same or similar growth habit as the Mahachanok.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg212254#msg212254)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- In Homestead it has produced quite well and been very precocious. Venus at a minimum produces a larger fruit than Fairchild with a superior flesh-to-seed ratio. Both are excellent. Fairchild appears to be a little more forgiving in terms of when it is harvested and eaten though. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179505#msg179505)

-- Venus does seem to set fruit young and looks to be a good producer, primarily late season.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg212254#msg212254)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- It is late season and the important aspect is that the fruit must be left on the tree until it attains its yellow coloration.   If you pick it green, it does not properly ripen and stays chalky and off tasting. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179262#msg179262)

--  If Venus is picked early it will not properly ripen.   It is important to allow Venus to colorn up on the tree or it is chalky and a bit off putting.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179531#msg179531)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Venus has a lovely flavor - really delicious -  but it also has the same subtle spice element found in Maha Chanok.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211887#msg211887)

-- I got to try Venus.  The flavor is unique.  At first I called it "perfumey."  But it's actually more like rose or rosewater--at least the ones I sampled from a famous wholesale nursery in Lake Worth.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16042.msg212842#msg212842)

-- Venue should be considered as a top choice for two reasons.  It is an excellent mango and it is late season.  It does eem to have a compact growth habit, very good production and fruit are on the larger size (the three best late season mangoes IMO in terms of taste and production are Venus, Honey Kiss and Beverly).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16042.msg204056#msg204056)

-- Venus - superior ZINC seedling - yum! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg215433;topicseen#msg215433)

-- Venus was mostly rich, sweet, funky and cola syrupy. The chalky taste was very faint, if I tasted it closely comparing it to Zinc it was there, but probably wouldn't notice it unless reviewing. If it gets better when more ripe or later in the year then i am looking forward to the next one.Great tasting mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg209341;topicseen#msg209341)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Villa Señor, Villa Senor, Villaseñor, Villasenor

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- -- Here in SoCal ... Villa Señor .. Are compact slow growers.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220429;topicseen#msg220429)

-- Villaseñor-Origin Los Angeles, 1950s, Sr. Villaseñor. Tree dwarf, spreading, responds to strong rootstock.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)

-- Wow!! That's the perfect size mango for me...nicely shaped  ...... Gorgeous tree!!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg87342#msg87342)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- .... and look at ALL those mangoes on the tree!! ...(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg87342#msg87342)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Late midseason (Dec Jan).  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Villaseñor-Origin Los Angeles, 1950s, Sr. Villaseñor. Tree dwarf, spreading, responds to strong rootstock. Fruit medium, to 12 oz., shape ovate, color greenish yellow, pink blush, flavor mild. Late midseason (Dec Jan). For coast, foothills. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)

-- This is a Socal variety, very underrated, nice flavor.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg38071#msg38071)

-- I've grown this mango two blocks from the ocean in south Ocean Beach in San Diego.   Villa Senor is an excellent mild mango, beautiful sweet yummy mango flavor, beautifully strong skin(not a weak skin), beautiful orange flesh, low fiber, no diseases on the fruit, no disease on the leaves.  Light brown new growth.  I grafted two seedlings that I planted from seed from store bought mangos of whatever varieties, with the Villa Senor in the late 1990's.   The seedlings were about 7 years old already, didn't produce any worthwhile fruit as seedlings.   However, in 2009 I had them both taken out in due to redevelopment.  Bonita Creek Nursery has one of them, which they're using for scion propagation.   A super basic easy growing problem free mango with basic beautiful flavor.
Where's the Villa Senor that's in the picture?
Let's get that propagated.  Let's do tissue culture to ramp up production quickly.

And with perhaps our new norm of more heat, "Enjoy The Heat, Grow Mangos"(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg44655#msg44655)

-- Mild may be "perfect" for some people.  its all about personal taste.

there will probably never be a "perfect" mango, because of different preferences.  I would rather have a mild, sweet mango that  has a creamy texture, and nice aroma, than an intense variety that is grainy. I like Kent and Glenn which are have been labeled "mild".

and that's another point, mild to one person may be strong for another, I have even seen Keitts described as Mild, I wouldn't call those mild.

and what is it that classifies a variety as mild? just weak flavor, or low acidity? or low aroma? I mean you could have a variety that has good mango flavor, but may be low in acid and aroma, and to some that may be considered mild. then there are those that like that resin turpy flavor, and use that as the scale of what is mild or not.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg38261#msg38261)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 03:40:31 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: White Pari

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Son Pari and White Pari, both from India, fruit very well as small, compact trees.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220593;topicseen#msg220593)

Productivity and Precociousness

?

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- mid and late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- I agree that the Indian Pari shown in the website is a little weird looking with the pointed end.
But the Pairi/Pari/Paheri should all be the same...according to literature that I have read.

I have been researching the origin of the Pirie mango for some time...since the Hawaiian Pirie (and White Pirie) are my favorite mangos.
The Hawaiian Pirie is a descendant of the Pairi/Paheri of India.
Likewise, the Bombay is also a seedling descendant of the Paheri from India.
So that's why I am so interested to see if MangoFang's Bombay is similar in taste to the Hawaiian Pirie.  To the best of my knowledge, nobody in SoCal other than MangoFang has a Bombay.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=8771.msg112831#msg112831)

-- The obvious fact that the WORDS "Paheri", "Pari", "Pairi", and "Piri" are linguistically related ("pear" and "pera" may belong there too), does not mean that mangoes bearing those words in their names are the same or similar varieties.  So 'Paheri' (Bombay),
'Son Pari', and 'White Pari', should not be confounded.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221708#msg221708)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 05:17:40 PM
NOTE: Mallika is NOT a compact mango, please see the description of the tree size. It is a vigorous cultivar that needs pruning to be maintained at a small height. This is the reason why it was not included in the original list. However it has received several honorable mentions for responding well to tip pruning/training so it's characteristics are listed here. But please be advised that Mallika does not fit the criteria of compact mango

Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Mallika

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- In my experience, Mallika is not a small tree; its actually a fairly vigorous grower. I would even say more than the NDM #4, dwarfing or regular rootstock. For some reason it has been promoted as a 'semi-dwarf' when it is nothing of the sort. Mallika could probably benefit more from being grafted to dwarfing stock than NDM. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1045.msg13135#msg13135)

-- So Mallika and Beverly and Fairchild are not very compact on their own, but can be made that way every year.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220580;topicseen#msg220580)

--  For a dwarf it's leggy, not well branched(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220559;topicseen#msg220559)

-- Another mango I'd recommend is Mallika. Though it's a vertical grower like Maha Chanok, it responds very nicely to tip pruning and doesn't develop "droopy" resultant shoots like Coconut Cream and Pickering. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220348;topicseen#msg220348)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- Mallika: very nice sweet mango [orange, carrot, papaya tones depending on stage], great production/ disease(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16171.msg205595#msg205595)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

Looks like mid-season given commment timestamps

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

--  think Mallika fruits can be variable like Neelam. Both are Indian mangoes
I remember a poster here said his mallikas tasted like carrots and he was going to axe the tree.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220447;topicseen#msg220447)

-- Dasheri on the other hand gets lots of praise and is touted as the best mango India has. One neighbour even told me that a well ripened Mallika tastes just like it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17161.msg217750#msg217750)

-- I've never had Mallika...I've heard the word "carrot" taste in some of the descriptions. Is it true? I personally wouldn't think I would like a Mango with that flavor in it...but I can't be sure of course till I actually taste one.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1045.msg13136#msg13136)

-- I don't detect any "carrot" in Mallika's flavor at all...."honey" is the dominant flavor note but it does have more subtle undertones.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1045.msg13138#msg13138)

-- This season is my first experience with attempting to properly ripen a Mallika Mango.  My trees produced about a dozen or so mature fruit, and I have been picking and ripening them for a few weeks.  It has been difficult to determine the correct timing, as they did appear large and mature enough to me beginning in early June.

The first fruit I attempted to ripen did color change to a nice, beautiful yellow.  When I cut it up however, it had almost zero sweetness.  Obviously picked too early.  Then over the past 6 weeks or so, I picked and ripened a number of the fruits.  All were green when picked, and were various stages of yellow when "ripe".  They were good, but not top tier, lacking enough sweetness to stand amongst the top dogs.

Then last friday, July 13th,  Sheehan brought to the tasting table at Harry's 2 beautiful yellow Mallika's.  They actually appeared fake, they were just that perfect looking.  One was tree ripened, and one was picked green and ripened in a bag.  They were both very good, and by far the best Mallika's I had had up to that point.  Top 5 out of 20+ varieties at the table.  Most agreed that the picked green individual tasted better, although some did prefer the tree ripened one.  According to Sheehan's " Brix -o-meter", the picked green one had more sugar content.

Yesterday, I had Seadation over for a mini tasting.  On the table were a fully ripened Khun See,  Nam Doc Mai, Carrie, and Alphonso, and my Mallika that had been picked green on July 5, and ripened in a paper bag for 10 days.  This (one amongst a group of 3) Mallika that I picked was not really yellow.  More of a funky green with a mottled skin.  It had been 10 days since picking, and they just "felt" right.

The result ?  The best Mallika I have ever had.  It was just delicious.  Rich, complex sweet, with hints of citrus and vanilla.  Destroyed the competition, and is burned into my memory as one of the best.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2140.msg29429#msg29429)

-- mallika:  sorry, I just don't like mallika, at all!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215082;topicseen#msg215082)

-- dear all...,Mallika mango from India is undoubtedly the world's finest mango in taste...(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg144578;topicseen#msg144578)

-- Mallika is a great mango for sure,  but "worlds finest" depends on the person eating the mango,  no mango will ever be, everyone's favorite.  also there are over 1000 varieties of mangoes with new hybrids being introduced all the time,  so even the Mallika may be bred to make it even better. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg144622;topicseen#msg144622)

-- I will agree 100% that a well ripened Mallika can be as good ss any Zills variety. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12087.msg155253#msg155253)

-- I was the poster who said the Mallika tasted like carrots; and they did one year. However, in subsequent years, if they are picked at the right time they are some of the best mangoes I've had. However, they are finicky on when to be picked, and if picked too early/too late can have a carrot taste or fizz grape soda taste (overripe). I would not ax the tree we have. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221874#msg221874)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 08, 2015, 05:27:44 PM
Mallika should not be part of this project.  It is in no way a compact tree.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 06:01:17 PM
Mallika should not be part of this project.  It is in no way a compact tree.


Rob, I agree with your statement that it is not a compact tree. I have several references in the 'tree size' section that say exactly what you just said. But in the selection process Mallika received several 'honorable mentions' because many note that it does respond well to training. That is why it is listed at the bottom of the main post ( http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0) ) away from everything else with this caveat.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 08, 2015, 07:22:22 PM
Many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training but that does not make them a compact tree in any manner.  You should limit this thread to true natural compact growers.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 08, 2015, 07:42:58 PM
Many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training but that does not make them a compact tree in any manner.  You should limit this thread to true natural compact growers.

With all due respect "many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training" such mangoes should be of interest here because a pruner who has some brains can keep a mango smaller or compact. I am going to guess that upright growers do not fit in this category. I know I am interested.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 08, 2015, 09:10:29 PM
Many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training but that does not make them a compact tree in any manner.  You should limit this thread to true natural compact growers.

With all due respect "many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training" such mangoes should be of interest here because a pruner who has some brains can keep a mango smaller or compact. I am going to guess that upright growers do not fit in this category. I know I am interested.

You should know better.  By your thought process, almost every variety would fit into this category less the super vigorous.   This is not the case.  There are many people with brains but that does not mean they can achieve this goal cause they own a pruner, lopper, hand saw and chain saw.

The title of this thread is "Compact Mango Suggestions ", not what can you achieve with a prunerr and saw.

A lot of bad advice is spread on this forum which people read and think they have become well educated with good and proper advice.  I hear people's comments on a regular basis,  not here but in person who say they read it here, and they are way off.   There is a major difference between asking questions to learn and reading bullshit and learning bad habits.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 08, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
Venus has a strange growth habit, moderately vigorous, very thick branches, which nevertheless weep like willows with the weight of the fruits, and sometimes break completely off.  [In contrast, Keitt wood seems appropriately tough and flexible for its loads of fruit.]   I would like to see what happens with some pruning experiments.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 08, 2015, 09:58:40 PM
Venus has a strange growth habit, moderately vigorous, very thick branches, which nevertheless weep like willows with the weight of the fruits, and sometimes break completely off.  [In contrast, Keitt wood seems appropriately tough and flexible for its loads of fruit.]   I would like to see what happens with some pruning experiments.

Are you bad
sing that on the mother tree or those that gave been nursery grafted? 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 08, 2015, 11:34:02 PM
Many mangoes respond well to tip pruning/training but that does not make them a compact tree in any manner.  You should limit this thread to true natural compact growers.

Rob, I went ahead and added a disclaimer in bold to the Mallika post to make it absolutely clear that it is not a compact grower.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 08:15:50 AM
You should know better.  By your thought process, almost every variety would fit into this category less the super vigorous.   This is not the case.  There are many people with brains but that does not mean they can achieve this goal cause they own a pruner, lopper, hand saw and chain saw.

The title of this thread is "Compact Mango Suggestions ", not what can you achieve with a prunerr and saw.

A lot of bad advice is spread on this forum which people read and think they have become well educated with good and proper advice.  I hear people's comments on a regular basis,  not here but in person who say they read it here, and they are way off.   There is a major difference between asking questions to learn and reading bullshit and learning bad habits.

I'm voting with you.  IMO this thread should concentrate only on those trees that naturally tend to have a compact dwarf forum without human intervention.  A monkey can use a pair of pruning shears.  That's not what this thread is about, or so I thought.

It's my understanding that such materials as Julie and Pickering fit that "naturally dwarf" bill.  I have a Mallika which was touted by PIN as being a dwarf.    Unlike most, I do have a PGR to play with and will use it.  Mallika is leggy, has long internodes unlike say.....Pickering which has very short internodes the latter producing a tree that is dense with foliage and compact.   I'm a newbie at this mango thingie and growing in a greenhouse but so far this is my observation.  I opted out of NDM because of The Herd's parroting that it is semi-dwarf and had to be pruned often.

Again, appreciate starch's work.

Mark 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
Where you sit is what you see.

Mallika should not be part of this project.  It is in no way a compact tree.


Raghu Rajput over at https://www.facebook.com/groups/TXRFG/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/TXRFG/) may differ with you based on personal experience.  For some it is dwarf...... very dwarf.  On September 4 we had this discussion at a Facebook Texas Tropical Fruit Grower's group and I contested  Raghu's statement that his 6 year old Mallika was only 3' tall.  Apparently it bears 5 or so fruits in the 1 lb. + range every year.  I don't know what he's doing to maintain it at that height....probably would be a heavy yielder at 8'.  Here's the proof:

Mallika is on the far right, Alphonso far left, peach in the center.


(http://s22.postimg.cc/nmnwc56ml/mallika.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/nmnwc56ml/)

Closeup of his Mallika

(http://s10.postimg.cc/twkjl5pv9/mallika_2.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/twkjl5pv9/)

He lives in the Houston area which gets plenty of rain and heat.

Just a note to keep the jeers about Texas growers at bay.  This Facebook group (which is in no way all inclusive) is well over a thousand strong growing every kind of tropical fruit California and Florida has and perhaps more.  Texas is a big state and the coast from Beaumont down to Brownsville offers thousands of opportunities to grow tropical and sub tropical fruits.  Then there are the greenhouse growers and very passionate ones like the admin who is north of Austin growing and grafting hundreds of very exotic fruits.  The fruit tastings and scion exchanges held often in Houston and Austin are very popular.  There is a large Mango Festival near Brownsville every year.  Lot's of stuff going on in Texas.

Mark
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 09, 2015, 09:30:42 AM
I'm voting with you.  IMO this thread should concentrate only on those trees that naturally tend to have a compact dwarf forum without human intervention.  A monkey can use a pair of pruning shears.  That's not what this thread is about, or so I thought.
 
Disagree. It took 10 different explanations and reading comments here about tip pruning before I understood it. Whatever. This thread is not my project.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 09, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
That tree looks mighty young.  As you said, who knows what is and has been done to it.  With that said, I cant make any comments to how something will grow in Houston (the average lows for the winter months are at least 10 degrees cooler than in South Florida) however a mature Mallika here will have no problem reaching 25+ feet.

To take this one step further, how a variety grows in different locations/climates and and what rootstocks can vary greatly.  One thing I feel some people have no clue of is just how large a mango can get as it ages, especially with the girth of the trunk (I am talking a natuarally grown tree, not a bonsai).
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 09, 2015, 09:37:43 AM
I'm voting with you.  IMO this thread should concentrate only on those trees that naturally tend to have a compact dwarf forum without human intervention.  A monkey can use a pair of pruning shears.  That's not what this thread is about, or so I thought.
 
Disagree. It took 10 different explanations and reading comments here about tip pruning before I understood it. Whatever. This thread is not my project.

Zands - you are focusing on very young trees and affecting their infantile and juvenile growth.  Come see me in 20+ years and let me know how that tree looks and if you are still tip pruning.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 09, 2015, 09:52:26 AM
Zands - you are focusing on very young trees and affecting their infantile and juvenile growth.  Come see me in 20+ years and let me know how that tree looks and if you are still tip pruning.

Zands - you are focusing on very young trees and affecting their infantile and juvenile growth.
You are saying you affect the future growth habits by tip pruning young? So the tree turns out more bushy?

Tip pruning is mostly for younger trees and can be done a few times a year if the tree is vigorous. No fruits to get in the way. I tip pruned some 8 year old mango trees this year. But much more limited and done just once after the harvest. General I am only going to tip prune branches I can reach or pull down with a walking cane. You can find canes in thrift stores and yard sales. But I have gotten out my extension pole pruner and tip pruned when it was really needed. Did some last month
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 10:07:17 AM
Given the same location, genetic factors largely drive size - vigor, internode length, etc. and then there are the environmental factors.  Let's use avocados as an example.  What Carlos can get out of say....a Lamb Hass in one year would take me 5 years in spite of the fact that my greenhouse trees receive more heat than his in the field from May - September which is a bad thing.  They also receive less light and rainwater.  I would guess that photosynthesis, carbo production, is best around 85F for most tropicals.    Naturally a Holiday will stay and be much smaller than a Hass in 10 years given the same location growing side by side.  That's my focus.  There comes a point in your life where you need to understand and work with mother nature not against her. 

Mark
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 10:13:03 AM
Disagree. It took 10 different explanations and reading comments here about tip pruning before I understood it. Whatever. This thread is not my project.

Hey Zands, don't mean to sound trite but this thread is not about pruning techniques.  It's about varieties that are considered dwarf, you know, "condo" trees. 

Perhaps we need to start a thread such as "How to keep the typical mango tree compact and manageable".  And please, could we have at least one post that doesn't mention the term "pug"!  ;D
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: WGphil on September 09, 2015, 10:42:06 AM
I just planted a Providence and have a Fairchild in the ground that I love.  No need to choose when both  is a better answer. 

You can keep a Fairchild at 12 feet and it is slower growing so your work lasts longer.  I have an LZ also I just planted this season.  Pruning is different on each as the Lz is moving fast and up. 

tex

If I were you I would buy Pickering and keep them in buckets as they grow..  You can move them in and out with your tractor to protect them when they are full size.   They stay small and produce a very good fruit, early. 

You will get your fruit reward quickest that way, imo.   
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 09, 2015, 11:30:20 AM

This thread is about compact mangoes. Why be a purist? Why be limited to the naturally compact ones? People want more compact mango varieties to choose from. How about the new Zill varieties since 2010? If some of them can be kept compact via intelligent pruning then what's the difference? For space limited members here that only have room for 2-3 mango trees, they will be willing to tip prune and regular prune if it means more choice. That's my thinking. It's not much work to attend to three mango trees that are kept compact anyway.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 11:43:17 AM
If I were you I would buy Pickering and keep them in buckets as they grow..  You can move them in and out with your tractor to protect them when they are full size.   They stay small and produce a very good fruit, early. 

You will get your fruit reward quickest that way, imo.


I am replacing a Pickering with a Pickering I just lost to root girdling.   :(  PIN just sold out of everything so it will be Feb. Am planning now.  I don't want (need) more than 3 mango trees.

I grow in a large greenhouse, "in ground" using RootBuilder pots.  Here's an older thread. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.msg96609#msg96609 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.msg96609#msg96609) 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 09, 2015, 11:48:55 AM
I am replacing a Pickering with a Pickering I just lost to root girdling.   :(  PIN just sold out of everything so it will be Feb. Am planning now.  I don't want (need) more than 3 mango trees.

Pickering is always  a good pick for a compact mango planting. I know I am repeating things, but it fruits fairly soon after planting and it fruits at the expense of branch and leaf growth. So does nam doc mai #4.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 11:54:38 AM


This thread is about compact mangoes. Why be a purist? Why be limited to the naturally compact ones? People want more compact mango varieties to choose from. How about the new Zill varieties since 2010? If some of them can be kept compact via intelligent pruning then what's the difference? For space limited members here that only have room for 2-3 mango trees, they will be willing to tip prune and regular prune if it means more choice. That's my thinking. It's not much work to attend to three mango trees that are kept compact anyway.


It's not about making some monster a compact tree.  it's about buying a naturally compact, condo type tree and growing it with minimal effort.  Like I said, I have a friend who has kindly offered Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart which he just grafted.  They get too big so for now I'm opting out.  If I was living in Brownsville I'd take 'em in a heartbeat.

Zands, ya know how I pruned my peach trees last spring?  With a chain saw.  I took them down to 6', straight across butch haircut and they're now at 9 - 10' again.  This is all about time, age, health, etc.  I'm 66 and getting tired of being a slave to my plants so I'm cutting back.  The first biz to go is this frickin' Xmas tree biz, it's killing me. Next 2 seasons and I'm a free man!  Been there, done that.

(http://s29.postimg.cc/fid2s9pcj/Tree_Rows.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/fid2s9pcj/)

ohhhhhhhhhhhh, the drama.  ;D

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 09, 2015, 12:27:45 PM
I wanted to try to compile a list of mangoes with the following characteristics:

  • Compact / Natural 'dwarf' (i.e. does not have to be in a container to be dwarfed)
  • Bushy and/or spreading style growing habit
  • Good producer
  • Needs relatively minor pruning to keep size in check which will not adversely affect productivity
  • Quality fruit (full flavor, fiberless, etc.)

Rob, Mark, zands and WGphil

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. I really do think this is a useful discussion and is getting to the heart of this idea. I want to point out something in the original post shown above in bold. : Needs relatively minor pruning to keep size in check which will not adversely affect productivity

There are so many great mangoes that are really vigorous. Let's take Lemon Zest for example. Lemon Zest grows very fast and will become a huge tree in no time. So let's say you wanted to keep it to 8 feet tall. You would be pruning so much material so often it would be a constant struggle / chore. I also doubt you would get much production out of the tree because it would spend so much energy replacing the canopy that you keep taking away.

As Mark and Rob says, this is not a post about trying to make a large tree a bonsai, it defeats the whole purpose of a naturally small tree that produces well or a tree that can be kept small with minimal effort and still produce well.

So what do I mean by minimal effort?

In my mind it means:
- tip pruning once or twice a season before harvest
- minor pruning for shape / size control once after harvest (removal of a couple of interior upright branches. This will be done from ground level because the tree is small.)
- If the tree is too big and you have to use a ladder to do most of the controlling, or if you have to stand in the tree to do interior pruning then I would not consider it a compact mango

There is no mango tree that requires no effort. Unless you are in a mango grove set up in rows, there will always be obstacles in a growers yard that require navigating (adjacent fruit trees, perimeter walls, fences, walkways, etc.). So it is likely that even a natural dwarf like Pickering will require some pruning in its life.

It is this idea of 'minimal' pruning that interests me.

So what do you think, can Mallika be kept to a reasonable size/height (8-10 feet) with minimal effort? Or will it simply become too unwieldy as it gets older?


Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: StPeteMango on September 09, 2015, 12:55:57 PM
Awesome compilation, starch!
Putting together all the observations (some of them contradictory!) about a variety will help others decide whether to venture that way or not. Yes, some mango varieties are naturally compact, others can (hopefully!!) be kept compact with a little more effort. So newbies can at least get their eyes opened a bit more before planting.
I have several varieties of mangoes, and 3 of avocados. Also have a lot of hibiscus, schefflera and crape myrtles, plus plenty of lawn. Keeps me busy. The day will come (hopefully not for 15-20 years) when it all gets too much to handle and I'll have to cut back. Till then, no regrets about planting so many things, or for having to spread yards and yards of mulch around.
Plant and experiment and enjoy. If things get out of hand, chainsaw.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 09, 2015, 01:25:41 PM
It is this idea of 'minimal' pruning that interests me.

So what do you think, can Mallika be kept to a reasonable size/height (8-10 feet) with minimal effort? Or will it simply become too unwieldy as it gets older?

Yeppers.

Did you see the previous page?  I posted a fella's 6 year old Mallika that is only 3' tall. After the harvest I removed at least 1/3 of the top of my Mallika and as soon as it starts pushing again I'm hitting it with Bonzi, a PGR.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: simon_grow on September 09, 2015, 06:21:45 PM
This is a great conversation with lots of good points. I feel that Genetics plays a big part in a "compact mango" but perhaps there are techniques we can use on our trees to get the desired result while overcoming some obstacles that would otherwise cause one to overlook a cultivar.

For Example, the Ice Cream mango is a wonderful, no Excellent Top Teir Mango but it is very slow growing and may not be very productive. There are reports of it being both a good and bad producer. I know some of you are sick and tired of hearing it but what if Double Stone Grafting could give you a highly productive and more vigorous growing tree that is possibly more disease resistant, use specific rootstock, and grows more compact due to grafting effects( reported from Bernie Dizon in Phillipines).

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0)

Due to the ultra low nature of Double Stone Grafts, you can theoretically get branching just 6-8 inches from the ground. If you are growing in a large pot, this will give you a compact bushy plant that is elevated off the floor by about 2+ feet allowing for good air circulation in order to avoid disease and to keep the fruit off the ground. A bushy tree will have more growth points which increases the odds of more flowers and fruit. Heavy fruiting will use up much of the trees resources further reducing the growth of the tree.

I will soon be performing several DSGs on Ice Cream and maybe Julie and I will keep everyone updated. I hear the argument against growing great tasting Mango varieties such as Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart because they are too vigorous but I hope you will taste one of these mangos before deciding it may be too much work to prune and keep small while being productive. For me personally, taste is number one.

Simon
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: palologrower on September 09, 2015, 08:28:52 PM
Starch,  thank you so much for this thread. It has been very educational for me to see what the folks on here have to say on the subject.  It has definitely made me think of what type of mango I may try to plant in the ground (only got space for 1 variety so gotta make it count). 

Has there been any thought to ranking the list?  It would be subjective and difficult to evaluate since everyone's views are different let alone some may not have experience with a number of the varieties on the list.  Maybe do a top 3-5 from the list?  That would seem interesting. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 09, 2015, 11:01:51 PM
Awesome compilation, starch!
Putting together all the observations (some of them contradictory!) about a variety will help others decide whether to venture that way or not. Yes, some mango varieties are naturally compact, others can (hopefully!!) be kept compact with a little more effort. So newbies can at least get their eyes opened a bit more before planting.

Thanks StPeteMango! Yeah, that was definitely what I wanted to show, that there is some contradictory info on cultivars. There is certainly not any clear cut consensus on anything (except maybe Pickering, most everyone seems to love it!).

Plant and experiment and enjoy. If things get out of hand, chainsaw.

Indeed :)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 09, 2015, 11:04:56 PM
Yeppers.

Did you see the previous page?  I posted a fella's 6 year old Mallika that is only 3' tall. After the harvest I removed at least 1/3 of the top of my Mallika and as soon as it starts pushing again I'm hitting it with Bonzi, a PGR.

Nice, yeah I think this is the behavior that a lot of members were describing. However, I do wonder how it will react to training when it gets older (like Rob was saying, Mallika can become a 25 ft mango tree) and it wants to make the canopy of a larger tree.

However, it does seem encouraging that many people have been training Mallika successfully so far.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 09, 2015, 11:10:15 PM
This is a great conversation with lots of good points. I feel that Genetics plays a big part in a "compact mango" but perhaps there are techniques we can use on our trees to get the desired result while overcoming some obstacles that would otherwise cause one to overlook a cultivar.

For Example, the Ice Cream mango is a wonderful, no Excellent Top Teir Mango but it is very slow growing and may not be very productive. There are reports of it being both a good and bad producer. I know some of you are sick and tired of hearing it but what if Double Stone Grafting could give you a highly productive and more vigorous growing tree that is possibly more disease resistant, use specific rootstock, and grows more compact due to grafting effects( reported from Bernie Dizon in Phillipines).

[url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16549.0[/url])

Due to the ultra low nature of Double Stone Grafts, you can theoretically get branching just 6-8 inches from the ground. If you are growing in a large pot, this will give you a compact bushy plant that is elevated off the floor by about 2+ feet allowing for good air circulation in order to avoid disease and to keep the fruit off the ground. A bushy tree will have more growth points which increases the odds of more flowers and fruit. Heavy fruiting will use up much of the trees resources further reducing the growth of the tree.

I will soon be performing several DSGs on Ice Cream and maybe Julie and I will keep everyone updated. I hear the argument against growing great tasting Mango varieties such as Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart because they are too vigorous but I hope you will taste one of these mangos before deciding it may be too much work to prune and keep small while being productive. For me personally, taste is number one.

Simon



Thanks simon!

Yeah, I have read your post and am very excited to see what you find with this experiment. If DSG really does increase the health and disease resistance of the tree but provides essentially a dwarfing aspect then that would be the best of all worlds. If somehow (wildest mango dreams) we could get a productive Lemon Zest (for example) that doesn't have to be 15-20 ft tall, that would be really exceptional!

I am following that thread with great interest!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 09, 2015, 11:15:32 PM
Starch,  thank you so much for this thread. It has been very educational for me to see what the folks on here have to say on the subject.  It has definitely made me think of what type of mango I may try to plant in the ground (only got space for 1 variety so gotta make it count). 

Thanks palologrower, absolutely! Glad you find it useful!

Has there been any thought to ranking the list?  It would be subjective and difficult to evaluate since everyone's views are different let alone some may not have experience with a number of the varieties on the list.  Maybe do a top 3-5 from the list?  That would seem interesting. Just a thought.

I think that would be interesting, but very subjective. The only cultivar that seems to have (near) universal appeal is Pickering, but there are still some dissenting views. Most every other cultivar has a lot of conflicting views in flavor, growth rate (which I am sure is location, climate, soil and fertilization dependent), etc. It would be hard to find a clear top 3-5.

What I might do instead is make a table of compact mangos listed by season and flavor profile, that way if someone wants to plant a couple of small trees, they would likely want their mangos to extend the season and not overlap. I think that might be a useful addition to this project. What do you think?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 10, 2015, 08:27:27 AM
A very seasoned tropical fruit grower in Texas has pointed out a cultural factor I really need to consider and that is the length of our growing season here in central Texas.  This would also apply to a few posting here and growing in greenhouses in "cold" climes, short growing climes if you will, like zone 7-8.  So the question for growers in central & S. Florida would be - do your mango trees ever go dormant and if they do, when?  Are they still growing Dec.-Feb.?  Our growing season is about to wind down. I just topped my Mallika and it remains to be seen if it pushes new foliage, or it will wait until about March of next year to push.

Where I'm going with this is, if it takes me 10 years to get a 12' tree with a "regular" tree such as Kent or Sweet Tart, then why should I focus on a natural compact tree?

No, bigger is not better,
Mark
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: sunworshiper on September 10, 2015, 08:33:59 AM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 09:43:00 AM
A very seasoned tropical fruit grower in Texas has pointed out a cultural factor I really need to consider and that is the length of our growing season here in central Texas.  This would also apply to a few posting here and growing in greenhouses in "cold" climes, short growing climes if you will, like zone 7-8.  So the question for growers in central & S. Florida would be - do your mango trees ever go dormant and if they do, when?  Are they still growing Dec.-Feb.?  Our growing season is about to wind down. I just topped my Mallika and it remains to be seen if it pushes new foliage, or it will wait until about March of next year to push.

Where I'm going with this is, if it takes me 10 years to get a 12' tree with a "regular" tree such as Kent or Sweet Tart, then why should I focus on a natural compact tree?

No, bigger is not better,
Mark

Mark, that is a really good point. Miami has a latitude of 26 deg, Fredicksburg has a latitude of 30 deg, Phoenix and San Diego have latitudes of 33 deg. All these will affect daylight hours, and the length of the season (i.e. the closer to the tropics [23.5 deg] you get the more 'tropical' you day length gets - much more constant). Plants are very sensitive to both diurnal and seasonal light and temperature variations.

That would be an interesting experiment to see how compact even moderately vigorous varieties get the more north you go.

I recall someone pointing out (I don't remember which topic) that Keitt in San Diego is a moderate size tree, but in South Florida Keitts are absolute monsters. I think the phrase that was used was 'you can almost hear them growing overnight'. This probably has a lot to do with the humidity difference, but I think the latitude also plays a non-trivial role.

Good observation!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 09:43:51 AM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

Then I will definitely start working on it!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 10, 2015, 09:45:05 AM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

I would not make flavor profile part of it.  Tastes are very subjective and are also subject to proper harvesting, ripening and care which many do not do.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 09:49:45 AM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

I would not make flavor profile part of it.  Tastes are very subjective and are also subject to proper harvesting, ripening and care which many do not do.

I am not thinking like: excellent taste.
But more like "Julie has a Caribbean mango flavor profile with resinous/piney flavors present". Or something like that. So for example if someone really wants a Julie based on the tree size, but has never tried the fruit but they really don't like that flavor profile, then they won't go to all that effort to grow something they won't ultimately like.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 10, 2015, 10:23:57 AM
bsbullie,
The 'Venus' I was describing were about a dozen grafted trees in a field of mangos.  The original tree, in the same field,  looks more normal and without breakage.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 10, 2015, 10:32:47 AM
Another naturally compact tree, per the appearance of two trees at Zill's,  is the 'Rapoza', originally from Hawai'i.

It can be recommended to anyone wanting a compact tree with disease-resistant fruits and very good productivity, with fruit size and color and flavor similar to 'Kent.'

A few dozen trees will be available next year.  More can be grafted this year if there seems to be market interest.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Jani on September 10, 2015, 10:35:53 AM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

I would not make flavor profile part of it.  Tastes are very subjective and are also subject to proper harvesting, ripening and care which many do not do.

I am not thinking like: excellent taste.
But more like "Julie has a Caribbean mango flavor profile with resinous/piney flavors present". Or something like that. So for example if someone really wants a Julie based on the tree size, but has never tried the fruit but they really don't like that flavor profile, then they won't go to all that effort to grow something they won't ultimately like.

I still don't think you'll every really achieve that goal with any level of "accuracy". Also Cultural generalizations themselves aren't particularly accurate in assigning taste descriptions, such as "Caribbean mango profile"...it's a  term that doesn't account for any number of cultural complexities and individual preferences within that grouping.

Something as subjective as taste, and moreover when it's further dependent on so many vairables as Rob said (climate, weather, location, growing practices, tree age, ph, altitude etc etc etc.)..it extremely hard to capture to apply broadly as advice,

especially if...

...one of the stated goals (as alluded to above) is to guide people's decisions on something they ultimately won't like based on taste, I think it may close minds.

The more consistent and tangible physical attributes of the variety (growth habit, bearing patterns, fiber content, disease/pest resistence etc etc) I think are more valuable in guiding sound purchasing decisions..

Re taste as a principal decision driver, I think it's always best to taste for youself (and have a good sample size if possible) to know what you like regardless of others' positive or negative opinions to a particular variety. Of course it's not always possible for people to easily obtain the varieties they're considering to taste test..I get that

Regardless, I gotta concur with Rob and caution against making the taste profile (a big) part of it...


my 2 cents....
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Jani on September 10, 2015, 10:46:53 AM
Also remember there are very few sources on these matters on the net, and even fewer current sources...so people with general and beginning interest in mango (or other fruit) will stumble across the few sources and many will take what's written as gospel ..it's a problem with the variety viewers and other similar sources...

So a compilation like this, probably will be seen around the world by new entrants search for information and may limit their objectivity and open mindedness towards a particular fruit, based on subjective opinions on taste.

When I was a newly searching for information and expanding my knowledge on mangos beyond what I grew up with, it's the same regurgitated sources (before I discovered these forums) that I took as gospel and specifically the flavor profile descriptions were a huge part of what ultimately drove my decisions to purchase certain varieties,  to significant disapointment with some...and I know I'm not the only one who has been 'misled' by the generalizations on taste....
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 11:28:28 AM
Another naturally compact tree, per the appearance of two trees at Zill's,  is the 'Rapoza', originally from Hawai'i.

It can be recommended to anyone wanting a compact tree with disease-resistant fruits and very good productivity, with fruit size and color and flavor similar to 'Kent.'

A few dozen trees will be available next year.  More can be grafted this year if there seems to be market interest.

Thanks, added to the list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 11:41:58 AM
Jani,

I think you are making some very good points. I agree that there is no way that flavor cannot be subjective, so there is already an (admitted) problem with trying to generate this list.

But let me take the other side of the argument

Some guide to the flavor profile of the mango that you are considering purchasing is far better than no guide at all. The whole point of this post is to gather and centralize information based on forum members observations and experiences with growing these cultivars. And after all, why are we growing mangos? Because we want to eat them, because we enjoy the taste.

The subjective pleasure from eating the mango and preference of one flavor over another is completely individual. But having some input on those flavor experience from others that have grown and eaten the fruit I think could be very helpful.

Regarding open-mindedness vs. close-mindedness

I will give myself as an example. I have never had a Carrie mango before and have never had a mango that could be classified as piney/resinous before. But a couple of days ago I bought a Carrie mango at a nursery. After I grow it, could I hate it? Yes, possibly. Could I love it? Yes, possibly. But I am willing to give it a shot because I am open-minded and want to try new things, even if some people might really dislike it.

Some people on the other hand are close-minded and don't want to try something 'different' (however that may be defined). And so I don't think a table of flavor experiences will change that person's opinion.

So I think the potential upside benefit (more information based on forum members experiences) far outweighs the downside (closing the mind of someone who doesn't want a new experience to begin with) in generating a table of flavor profiles for mangoes.

But what I will do is make a sample table below and let the group weigh in on whether it seems worthwhile.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 11:43:25 AM
Here is a sample table that I have generated for this project. Please let me know your input and if you feel it is useful and worth continuing, or if you feel this will lead people astray and close minds ... see post http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221500#msg221500 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221500#msg221500)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: StPeteMango on September 10, 2015, 12:05:34 PM
Where you sit is what you see.

Mallika should not be part of this project.  It is in no way a compact tree.


Raghu Rajput over at [url]https://www.facebook.com/groups/TXRFG/[/url] ([url]https://www.facebook.com/groups/TXRFG/[/url]) may differ with you based on personal experience.  For some it is dwarf...... very dwarf.  On September 4 we had this discussion at a Facebook Texas Tropical Fruit Grower's group and I contested  Raghu's statement that his 6 year old Mallika was only 3' tall.  Apparently it bears 5 or so fruits in the 1 lb. + range every year.  I don't know what he's doing to maintain it at that height....probably would be a heavy yielder at 8'.  Here's the proof:

Mallika is on the far right, Alphonso far left, peach in the center.


([url]http://s22.postimg.cc/nmnwc56ml/mallika.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/nmnwc56ml/[/url])

Closeup of his Mallika

([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/twkjl5pv9/mallika_2.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/twkjl5pv9/[/url])

He lives in the Houston area which gets plenty of rain and heat.

Just a note to keep the jeers about Texas growers at bay.  This Facebook group (which is in no way all inclusive) is well over a thousand strong growing every kind of tropical fruit California and Florida has and perhaps more.  Texas is a big state and the coast from Beaumont down to Brownsville offers thousands of opportunities to grow tropical and sub tropical fruits.  Then there are the greenhouse growers and very passionate ones like the admin who is north of Austin growing and grafting hundreds of very exotic fruits.  The fruit tastings and scion exchanges held often in Houston and Austin are very popular.  There is a large Mango Festival near Brownsville every year.  Lot's of stuff going on in Texas.

Mark


Amazing. That 6-year-old Mallika is smaller than my 3-year-old Pickering. Too little sun?  Something to do with the soil? My Mallika, also 3 years old, is about 6 feet tall with tip pruning. Plan/hope to keep it at 10 feet max.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 12:26:38 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Rapoza

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Another naturally compact tree, per the appearance of two trees at Zill's,  is the 'Rapoza', originally from Hawai'i.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221444;topicseen#msg221444)

-- I planted one from a 3 gal a year and a half ago.  It has tripled in size, it is over 8ft tall. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134804#msg134804)

--  It is a very vigorous grower for me.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5371.msg73990#msg73990)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- It can be recommended to anyone wanting a compact tree with disease-resistant fruits and very good productivity(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221444;topicseen#msg221444)

-- It flowered early and set lots of fruit and currently has new flowers.   During the first flowering, we had a lot of rain so it handles the wet well.  There are 3 large mangos on the tree now, over a pound. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134804#msg134804)

-- supposedly very resistant to disease...and a great mango...

the disease/humidity tolerance alone makes it a winner in eyes.

maybe a good choice for the FL growers who want to go organic, and spray less?(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134839#msg134839)

-- good production(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134891#msg134891)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- Over here best late season mangos are 1) Rapoza(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=909.msg11203#msg11203)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- fruit size and color and flavor similar to 'Kent.'(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221444;topicseen#msg221444)

-- If what I hear is correct, the Florida red is the Hawaiian rapoza. That said, when Robert is here unloaded a bunch of Florida reds last late June, my wife thought they were some of the best mangos she's ever tasted. I'd agree that they were a top 5 for me that year. My rapoza is about to fruit this year for the first time. bloomed twice and is a vigorous grower. No disease problems yet.

Wish I could tell you more.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134885#msg134885)

-- If you compare ratings for Florida Red versus ratings for Rapoza, you will see that Florida Red will get much higher ratings in Florida, even on this forum. Never mind that they are both the same mango. ::) What does this tell you about influence of preconceived ideas in ratings?  ;)
Rapoza does very well here in super rainy east Hawaii. It has great feature of continued flowering until it finally hits a bit of a dry spell, then you get a very good flower set. It has a lot of good qualities going for it: good coloration, good production, good sized, disease resistance, and ofcourse great taste. I'm sure it could be improved upon....but then again what fruit can't? It is a seedling and improved version of Irwin, so if you don't like Irwin you may not like it? I don't know i haven't tried Irwin yet.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134891#msg134891)

-- Nothing bad about either however not my favorite.   Irwin had more of an almost generic mango taste like that of a really good Haden (not saying it tasted like a Haden but of just a classic mango flavor).  The Rapoza I have had have had a more distinctive flavor like that of a more intense Irwin with a citrusy component.

Again, both were good but not what I would call my favorite. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg135093#msg135093)

-- Rapoza = ultra fibreless!  even the seed has no clinging fibres.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg139554#msg139554)

-- At the Broward RFVC meeting, Eric from Pine Island spoke about rapoza.  He said they have been grown in Homestead for the last 20 years, marketed as Redland Reds.  He rated them a 10 in taste.  I bought a rapoza at the Fairchild mango festival last year.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5371.msg73990#msg73990)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: WGphil on September 10, 2015, 01:18:29 PM
Just wanted to point out that Fairchild just came in fifth in a California taste test  which is a lot different climate than Florida.  Count me surprised.

Check the La Habra thread... 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 10, 2015, 01:35:24 PM
I just got off the phone with PIN and asked them the dormant question as it applies from Central to south Florida. Reply was that most mango slow down but never really go dormant.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 10, 2015, 01:38:16 PM
bsbullie,
The 'Venus' I was describing were about a dozen grafted trees in a field of mangos.  The original tree, in the same field,  looks more normal and without breakage.

Was that a tree top worked to Venus from one of the "rejects"?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 10, 2015, 01:42:35 PM
A table summarizing season and flavor profile would be a great idea!

I would not make flavor profile part of it.  Tastes are very subjective and are also subject to proper harvesting, ripening and care which many do not do.

I am not thinking like: excellent taste.
But more like "Julie has a Caribbean mango flavor profile with resinous/piney flavors present". Or something like that. So for example if someone really wants a Julie based on the tree size, but has never tried the fruit but they really don't like that flavor profile, then they won't go to all that effort to grow something they won't ultimately like.

That is exactly what I was talking about that will cause issues.  I have heard Julies described in many ways by different people.  Not everybody tastes nuances the same.  I have heard people describe Julie as being coconutty with no reference to the Caribbean resin/spice.  Also, as I stated, harvesting and eating varieties at different stages will give different flavor profiles.

There are a few on this forum whose descriptions can only be described as "their own" which is why trying to give a flavor profile can be problematic and having people dispute or try and change the majority opinion.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 10, 2015, 05:56:12 PM
This is NOT the flavor profile table, just a sample. Please see the end of this post

----------------------------------------------

See http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221607#msg221607 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221607#msg221607)

-------------------------------------------

The above table is just a sample of the flavor profile notes for the cultivars. There is a large disclaimer at the top. And the flavor notes are taken directly from forum members observations with a reference so that you can easily click on the post and explore that comment more fully.

So, with the above caveats, the question for the group is this: Is this table useful despite the caveats?
[  ] YES
[  ] NO

Please answer below.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: palologrower on September 10, 2015, 06:22:38 PM
Starch,  thank you so much for this thread. It has been very educational for me to see what the folks on here have to say on the subject.  It has definitely made me think of what type of mango I may try to plant in the ground (only got space for 1 variety so gotta make it count). 

Thanks palologrower, absolutely! Glad you find it useful!

Has there been any thought to ranking the list?  It would be subjective and difficult to evaluate since everyone's views are different let alone some may not have experience with a number of the varieties on the list.  Maybe do a top 3-5 from the list?  That would seem interesting. Just a thought.

I think that would be interesting, but very subjective. The only cultivar that seems to have (near) universal appeal is Pickering, but there are still some dissenting views. Most every other cultivar has a lot of conflicting views in flavor, growth rate (which I am sure is location, climate, soil and fertilization dependent), etc. It would be hard to find a clear top 3-5.

What I might do instead is make a table of compact mangos listed by season and flavor profile, that way if someone wants to plant a couple of small trees, they would likely want their mangos to extend the season and not overlap. I think that might be a useful addition to this project. What do you think?

can total seeing this being made into a large sized poster or something.  I hope that if there are any businesses watching, they recognize who you are and give you a discount on grafted mangoes for your hard work! mahalo nui loa!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: sunworshiper on September 10, 2015, 07:19:17 PM
I'm a yes on the sample table. I like that you didn't try to summarize flavor, but just provided a handy index to all the comments available from first hand tasters who have shared opinions. I think that in the variety column it would be great if you could add a ref to the entry you've already created with the full summary for the variety that way it would be really easy to surf to more detail from the table. Nice work!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: phantomcrab on September 10, 2015, 07:58:34 PM
I am also a yes on the sample table. It will never be perfect but it's much better than what currently exists on the web. At least more than one person's opinion is involved.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Future on September 10, 2015, 09:08:57 PM
This is great work by starch!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 11, 2015, 11:25:33 AM
Ice Cream responds nicely to tipping but its a poor producer in my yard. 1st year in its 7 gal pot- 3 lemony goodness mangoes. 1st year in ground- 2 mangoes. 2nd and 3rd year in ground- nada :D. Not dwarf like Julie but gets bush and erect. It's 7 ft tall already.

This is what's confusing to me as I've read at several places that Ice Cream can easily kept at 6' and produces large size fruit 1.5 - 2.5 lbs.  Perhaps under Florida hot and wet norms it will become large quick, but here in Texas or elsewhere with a shorter growing season it will be different.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Squam256 on September 11, 2015, 11:53:50 AM
I've never seen ice cream produce fruit over a pound in weight. It's a small fruit and a lousy producing tree highly prone to disease. Very nice tasting fruit when you get it.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: TnTrobbie on September 11, 2015, 01:40:16 PM
Yea. I was about to comment as well that from my tree and Ice Cream mangoes bought from Truly Tropical, the most they ever weighed were about 450g or 0.9 lbs. I have a picture on another computer I'll post.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 11, 2015, 01:51:03 PM
Here are my compact Edward & Duncan. Edward has been on the ground 5 years and it's only 6'. I allowed it to hold fruits on its first year pug it the second year to 1.5' it only has 2 flush per year and hold 7-8 mangos per year some huge 2lb monsters. Duncan is still holding 2 fruits it gave me over 50 mangos this year
(http://s15.postimg.cc/ejh1ls2w7/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ejh1ls2w7/)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 11, 2015, 06:26:38 PM
I'm a yes on the sample table. I like that you didn't try to summarize flavor, but just provided a handy index to all the comments available from first hand tasters who have shared opinions. I think that in the variety column it would be great if you could add a ref to the entry you've already created with the full summary for the variety that way it would be really easy to surf to more detail from the table. Nice work!

That is a good idea, will do. Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 11, 2015, 06:28:30 PM
I am also a yes on the sample table. It will never be perfect but it's much better than what currently exists on the web. At least more than one person's opinion is involved.

Thanks phantomcrab. Exactly, multiple opinions involved from the people that actually grow it which shows the range of perceived flavors a mango can have instead of one sentence on a nursery website.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 11, 2015, 06:28:54 PM
This is great work by starch!

Thanks Future!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 11, 2015, 06:31:08 PM
This is not the final table, still a work in progress. Showing it for commenting before I put it with the original post

----------------------------------------------

(updated) See posts http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221719#msg221719 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221719#msg221719) and http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221720#msg221720 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221720#msg221720)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 11, 2015, 10:21:45 PM
Here are my compact Edward & Duncan. Edward has been on the ground 5 years and it's only 6'. I allowed it to hold fruits on its first year pug it the second year to 1.5' it only has 2 flush per year and hold 7-8 mangos per year some huge 2lb monsters. Duncan is still holding 2 fruits it gave me over 50 mangos this year
([url]http://s15.postimg.cc/ejh1ls2w7/image.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/ejh1ls2w7/[/url])


JF, would be cool if the photo was rotated 90 degrees clockwise.

Thanks
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 10:09:26 AM
'Cotton Candy' is Late Season;

Julie, mid;

Son Pari, mid and late;

White Pari, mid and late;

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 10:19:12 AM
'Dwarf Hawai'ian' is Very Early and Mid (almost always two harvests, or more);

'Rosa' is Very Early and Early (sometimes into mid--- extended harvest);

'Duncan' is Early to Late (Extended Harvest.  Always waite for color break before picking).
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 12, 2015, 11:39:31 AM
Har, thanks for all the info, pages and table have been updated!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangomandan on September 12, 2015, 11:44:54 AM
Starch,  many thanks for all your hard work. I love the compilation of flavor comments.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 12, 2015, 11:50:22 AM
Starch,  many thanks for all your hard work. I love the compilation of flavor comments.

Thanks mangomandan!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: horseshoe_bayou on September 12, 2015, 06:55:21 PM
where can I get cotton candy?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 07:28:32 PM
'Cotton Candy' will only be available next year, at several south Florida retail nurseries--- after they buy from Zill's in the spring.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 07:44:37 PM
'Edgar', supposedly from 'Edward' X 'Gary', and therefore the name, has a long harvest, mainly mid-season, with some early and late.

'Dwarf Hawai'ian', supposedly actually originated in Florida, where it was given the non-politically-correct name, "tete-de-nene."
It tastes like a cross between 'Julie' and 'Kent', and those are its probable parents.  Though I don't care for 'Julie', I do like the flavor of 'Dwarf Hawai'ian' pulp very much, and also the flavor of its skin--- together they are very sweet and spicey.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 07:55:37 PM
'Baptiste' is actually not very juicy.   Haitians sometimes describe it as a "dry" mango--- one that can be eaten without first taking off one's shirt!  It has good, low-fibre texture, and is quite sweet, with an odd spiceyness.  If you didn't grow up eating it or hearing that it was grandpa's favorite, don't get one before trying the fruit.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Guanabanus on September 12, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
'Neelam' is appreciated by those who want SOUR GREEN MANGOS FOR PICKLES, well into late season.


The obvious fact that the WORDS "Paheri", "Pari", "Pairi", and "Piri" are linguistically related ("pear" and "pera" may belong there too), does not mean that mangoes bearing those words in their names are the same or similar varieties.  So 'Paheri' (Bombay),
'Son Pari', and 'White Pari', should not be confounded.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 12, 2015, 11:03:28 PM
Har, thanks again for all the info, the description posts and the table have been updated!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 12, 2015, 11:06:26 PM
NOTE WHEN USING THIS TABLE:

Flavor is an inherently subjective experience. Even when the same exact piece of fruit is tasted at the same exact time by two different people, and even if they agree for the most part on what the flavor profile is they will likely perceive slightly different flavors because tasting is subjective.

Next consider that from the same tree two pieces of fruit are selected, one that is tree-ripened and one that is picked green and counter-ripened and these fruit are given to two different people to taste. For some cultivars the tasting review of these two fruits will yield results as if they were completely different varieties of mango!

Now this becomes further complicated when trees are grown in different locations, different soils, different fertilization strategies, picked from different locations within the tree, picked at different years (comparing flavor from a dry year vs. wet year) etc. etc.

The point is this: It is very difficult to get 100% agreement on the flavor profile of the exact same piece of fruit because taste is subjective and gets so much harder when different fruit are compared.

The only thing that can be guaranteed is that there will be no agreement.

So why bother with a table of flavor profiles?

Some guide to the flavor profile of the mango that you are considering purchasing is far better than no guide at all. The whole point of this post is to gather and centralize information based on forum members observations and experiences with growing these cultivars. And after all, why are we growing mangos? Because we want to eat them, because we enjoy the taste.

The subjective pleasure from eating the mango and preference of one flavor over another is completely individual. But having some input on those flavor experiences from others that have grown and eaten the fruit can be helpful.

So take the following table with a grain of salt and use it as a loose guide of the flavor profile you might expect when choosing which tree might be right for your situation

FORUM MEMBERS: If you have tasting experiences to share that you feel are not captured in this table, please share in the post comments! I will update with your tasting notes!


CultivarRipening SeasonFlavor Profile
Alampur baneshan (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220985#msg220985)?-- Alanpur Baneshsan is a very flavorful mango.  The only problem is, the flavor it has isn't a flavor that everyone likes.  It is very strong flavored and has a considerable resinous twang. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1747.msg23848#msg23848)
-- Alampur Baneshan is a very fragrant and spice mango.  I would say that it is a mango for people that like full flavored unusual mangoes. The skin remains mostly green when mature, and the flesh is kind of pale.  However, the flesh packs a good punch of smells and flavors. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6513.msg85135#msg85135)
Amrapali (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg236170#msg236170)late in the season (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)-- My one and only runt fruit was picked green and ripened on the counter for a week. Taste was awesome! To me, the taste is right up there with the  Alphonso mango. Sorry, didn't take pictures of the cut fruit. Remembered it had deep orange color flesh. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17429.msg220248#msg220248)
-- From Julia Morton: "Another new hybrid, 'Amrapali', of which 'Dashehari' was the female parent and 'Neelam' the male, is definitely dwarf, precocious, a regular and heavy bearer, and late in the season. The fruit is only medium in size; flesh is rich orange, fiberless, sweet and 2 to 3 times as high in carotene as either parent."(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)
-- Forgot to add this mango the real Amrapali Brix 27  this is one of the sweetest I've had right there with White Chaunsa & Gary but much more complex. Reminds me of the floral taste of seacrest with a slight piney finish. We will propagate this variety next year as well as Jumbo Amrapali. Amrapali is from the same hybrid breeding project Malika came from in India but unlike Malika you don't need to play the guessing  game when to harvest it. Top 10 mango(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226457#msg226457)
-- This year I tasted Amrapali for the first time. The taste was excellent! In taste and texture was like the Alphonso mangos from India that I have enjoyed in the past. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226462#msg226462)
Angie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220986#msg220986)it is the late part of the early season to early part of the mid season. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215868#msg215868)
-- There have been numerous tastings that I have been involved with where it has vied for top billing.  Unfortunately, it does have some inconsistencies. There have been years where the flavor has been off for some unexplained reason.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17015.msg215858#msg215858)
-- the flesh is sweet silky smooth no fiber and a slight papaya undertone/aftertaste. The first year my tree fruited it did not wow me but this year they were great. As I said earlier it does have a resinous taste near the skin and the stem. This is more prominent if eaten too underripe. I am not very fond of the resinous taste but the key to it is to cut the skin away before eating or slicing and it is completely gone. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16319.msg212576#msg212576)
-- By "real indian flavor" i mean sweet, with minimal acidity, strong flavor, complex. Alampur baneshan seems to be my number one choiceat the moment.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6513.msg85174#msg85174)
Baptiste (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221021#msg221021)?-- It has a faint turpentine taste mixed with sweetness and is reasonably fragrant.  On its own, it would be a decent mango, fibre free and juicy.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg213964#msg213964)
-- 'Baptiste' is actually not very juicy.   Haitians sometimes describe it as a "dry" mango--- one that can be eaten without first taking off one's shirt!  It has good, low-fibre texture, and is quite sweet, with an odd spiceyness.  If you didn't grow up eating it or hearing that it was grandpa's favorite, don't get one before trying the fruit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221707#msg221707)
Carrie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221025#msg221025)mid to early-late(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12072.msg154976#msg154976)--  It is a distinct taset to the flesh and a "piney"/resinous component near the skin that some, or many find off putting. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143671#msg143671)
-- The carrie goes from creamy (code word for chalky :-), with a great sweet and tart combo to sweet gelatinous sludge with funky odor and foul aftertaste very quickly. The novice mango eater will wait until the carrie is yellow before eating, but that is a mistake. One should consume the carrie at the very first sign of give. (This does not apply to islanders / latinos, as they often prefer to let it ripen to the point of extreme sweetness.) Carrie also tend to have a better flavor and consistency (in my opin) if picked green and allowed to ripen indoors. I very rarely find a tree ripened carrie that I like. It takes some trial and error to get the carrie at the right stage, it does have that strong piney flavor (which is stronger in some years than others), and the flavor can vary from year to year.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4111.msg143689#msg143689)
--   Because I like strong-tasting mangos, 'Carrie''s flavor, and fiber-free texture and thin edible skin win hands-down with me(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg10959#msg10959)
-- Carrie: Finally a break from all those mild tasting FL varieties!! Strong flavor plus piney taste made of of my favorites. Supposedly has very short window for perfection. I tried 5 Carries in various stages, and they were all excellent mangoes. Failed to see all that fuss about window of perfection and hate relationship some people have to this variety. Also refrigerated Carries are simply awesome. Refrigeration actually increases overall appeal with Carrie. It isn't necessarily true with other varieties. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg154433#msg154433)
Cogshall (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221029#msg221029) mid (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1840.msg25737#msg25737)-- It ihas a propensity to being mild and having at times a washed out flavor.  Texture is soft too. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136#msg205136)
-- All that said tho, the flavor in a perfectly ripened fruit is outstanding, and I've had several so far this season that were perfect. Of my 4 mango varieties, it is my favorite flavor wise. The fruit have a prominent sub-acid component to the flavor, which I like a lot. But if you want an all sweet fruit, that might not be a bonus. The part near the stem especially has a tangyness to it that I like a lot - no resin or turpentine type flavor, not really sure how to describe it. More like concentrated flavor. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16846.msg213842#msg213842)
-- The coloration on this mango was green, pink and yellow blended into each other with white spots. The mango weighed 381g and was 5in long. When I cut open the mango it revealed a yellow gold flesh with some watery juice. The flesh was fiberless, soft, and of melting consistency. It had nice flesh to seed ratio with plenty of edible flesh and a monoembryonic seed. The taste was sweet, with a slight tangy-ness and hints of orange juice with a spicy funky finish which I cannot compare nor explain exactly what it was. I thought this had a complex flavor. Next time i get my hands on a few of these i plan to eat them at different stages of ripeness to see how or if the flavor profile changes much, think that would be interesting.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg86940#msg86940)
Cotton Candy (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221042#msg221042)late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)-- If you like high acidic levels in your mango read no further.  At first bite you taste a the flavor of a firm but tamed down Gary (no distinct pina colada flavor) and then all hell breaks loose and here comes the flavor of, yes, I am not kidding, the flavor of cotton c andy on through the finish.  I have eaten a few of these and the flavor profile is consistent. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215124#msg215124)
-- This thing is sweet.  Sickly sweet.  Perhaps some alternate names could have been Sucre.  Or The Amputator.  A good looking mango with subtle yellow pink outside, also decent mid sized fruit.  Inside is yellow and, again, mine had slightly gone past its prime.  But in this case, it didn't matter.  First impression were, aroma was positive.  Second thing, it struck me as being very similar in flavour profile go Coconut Cream - excellent.  The knock out punch though is the after taste.  It seemed the closer to th seed I got, the sweeter the mango got.  It is like a mix of Brahm Kai Mea and coconut cream. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg216171#msg216171)
Duncan (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221047#msg221047) early to late (Extended Harvest.  Always wait for color break before picking). (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)-- Duncan's flavor to me is like a sort of 'milder' Edward, with some other delicate notes it probably inherited from the Pico cross.. It is quite good. I would not place it in the level of Cushman or Dot strictly in terms of flavor but it certainly ranks well. The best quality of Duncan is the sum of all its qualities really;(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9029#msg9029)
-- this is a fiberless, orange fleshed fruit with nice flavor(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=760.msg9035#msg9035)
-- Duncan: Most people consider this anywhere from good to excellent. I had the same opinion. I changed my mind when Alex (squam256) picked the most perfect fruits out of big pile of Duncans. I peeled them like potatoes (this method eliminates any chances of bitter skin), cut off the slice and wow! The most perfect Duncan of my life. I felt like it was right up there with all premier varieties. Something irresistible about that mellow delicate taste working with few tones in the background.  And I'm not even a fan of mild tasting mangoes mind you! I felt like a fool for never requesting Duncan budwood. Another factor to overall appeal is silky smooth texture. Different from all mangoes. Even some gelatinous tones, although not the same gelatinous as NDM.  Again fruit must be perfect and almost overripe for me in order to compete with other premier varieties.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg154433#msg154433)
Dwarf Hawaiian (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221127#msg221127) very early and mid (almost always two harvests, or more); (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)--   I only had a timely one and it had that tang like sizzle to it, sort of like carbonated water - but sweet and aromatic.  The flesh looks stringy but was fine to me.  This is a good mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg197871;topicseen#msg197871)
-- Dwarf Hawaiian continues to please.  What they lack in size, they make up for in earlyness and zippy sweetness. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg198059;topicseen#msg198059)
--  Dwarf Hawaiian was certainly the best of the early mangoes.  Even slightly over ripe it tasted fine.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg199369;topicseen#msg199369)
-- It tastes like a cross between 'Julie' and 'Kent', and those are its probable parents.  Though I don't care for 'Julie', I do like the flavor of 'Dwarf Hawai'ian' pulp very much, and also the flavor of its skin--- together they are very sweet and spicey.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221706#msg221706)
Edgar (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221129#msg221129)long harvest, mainly mid-season, with some early and late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221706#msg221706)-- Finished eating the  rest of the Edgar and wow, it's SO GOOD  :D   Nice size and the flavor is very sweet, smooth, well-rounded and just wonderful. It's been my #2 most delicious mango eating experience of this summer so far, just below the Maha Chanok.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg213000;topicseen#msg213000)
-- My first reaction to tasting this Edgar (Edward x Gary) from Walter Zill's in Boynton Beach, FL, was the same as Borat's: "Wowwah weeeewah! Very nice, I like." I cut it when it was still fairly firm. It has the sweetness of a popsicle, the smoothness of an Edward, its creamy as a Candy Corn, and there's a laid back tropical flavor mystique that is delightful. Eating close to the skin there is a beautiful, subdued resinous finish. I would rate this mango as "Excellent" and say that it is truly delicious and high grade. It did not blow my mind in the way in the way I associate with an outstanding mango, but this one is close. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212967;topicseen#msg212967)
-- I thought my 2 remaining Edgars would have been very overripe at the time of the sampling but there were not. The black spots on the exterior barely penetrated through the skin and into the flesh. Sweet, fiberless, deep orange flesh. I felt they tasted much better  than the Edgars I sampled earlier last week. And considering how they held up well since purchasing ripe  8 days, maybe some commercial growing potential here (?) with this cv. Very enjoyable.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg210655;topicseen#msg210655)
-- Edward x Gary = Edgar. This mango was mostly yellow with some olive green towards the bottom and starting to brown on top. This mango was 4in long and weighed 355g. When I cut the mango open it produced a bright yellow-orange flesh and leaked some thin juice. The flesh was fiberless soft and juicy. There was an alright amount of flesh to eat that surrounded a monoembryonic seed. The taste was like canned peaches with an added tangy finish and a resinous taste near the peel.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg90025;topicseen#msg90025)
-- Edgar - this was said to be the "brother" of Coconut Cream... a supposed Edward Gary cross = EdGar.  A nice mid-size mango with a beautiful pink blush... and a complex, almost "royal" flavor. The tasted reminded me of some mangoes I had in India... but toned down and smoother, more 'Western'.  I knew it was really good because I ate such tiny bites, not looking forward to it being gone. Later, I sliced off the second half and drove to the beach... waded out into the water as the sun set... and slowly nibbled the orange flesh off the skin while looking up at sky. I sadly dropped the peel in the Atlantic ocean, walked back to my car and drove home thinking about finding more mangoes of the same quality. A(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg83917;topicseen#msg83917)
Fairchild (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221130#msg221130)? (based on mango reviews it seems like a mid-season ripener?)-- I really like Fairchild.  It does have a strong "muskiness" similar to Indian mangoes which is probably why I like it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg205136;topicseen#msg205136)
-- Grass flats, the Fairchild is a very good mango, but I didn't find it to be complex or spicy. It had kind of concentrated mango flavor (good thing), but I didn't detect other flavors in it. But it was up against some stiff competition on the complexity scale! I've never had Carrie, so can't comment on that. I have decided on Maha for my yard.  I considered Fairchild - liked it, but the spread out fruiting season and its unique flavor of the Maha made it the winner. I'm going to topwork the Angie. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215176;topicseen#msg215176)
-- Fairchild - smelled a bit like celery on the outside, but none of that carried into the fruit flesh. It was a very good mango. No special flavors - just mango. Good sweet tart balance, with the tip being sweet and the stem end having a pleasant tartness. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215045;topicseen#msg215045)
Florigon (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221131#msg221131)early.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg10305#msg10305)-- Our early Florigons were washed out. The later ones were quite good, sweet with a citrus-hint. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg217083;topicseen#msg217083)
--  Later that weekend, I tried a bunch more mangos and one was Florigon, and I agree that is a middling good but not superior mango flavor. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1911.msg26664#msg26664)
-- This florigon was 4in long and weighed 394g, it was a flat orange color with black freckling and a large anthracnose streak. This was another mango which had an oily feel to the outside skin. When I cut open the mango it revealed a deep orange color with hardly any excess juice.  The juice that was present adhered to the flesh and was a syrupy consistency. The flesh was smooth with a consistency somewhere between gelatinous and creamy completely absent of fiber. The sugar content seemed mild and the taste seemed like mild honeydew melon. Overall I thought the flesh was of desert quality but it was not really sweet and lacked any distinct flavor characteristics, maybe this was watered down? Worthy of a second try.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg86564;topicseen#msg86564)
Honey Kiss (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221132#msg221132)late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)-- Just got back from Walter Zill's in Boynton and I ate a ripe Honey Kiss drop with my lunch. It was smaller than a fist and what I consider the ideal size for one person. This mango is juicy, it has nice melts-in-your-mouth flesh texture with no fiber I recall. It tastes sweet and mellow, like a honeydew melon and beneath the skin has just a hint of the Lemon Zest / Orange Sherbet flavors.  Very smooth taste  - I did not encounter one funky, tart, resiny, stringy, spicy, or bitter aspect in it. I would rate it as "excellent" and put it in the mild & sweet corner of the tasting table. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg212674;topicseen#msg212674)
-- This mango I have no information on and eventually I'll call over to get some more info on it. This mango was a yellowing green with a small amount of light red blush at the top and felt soft and ready to eat. It was 3.5in long and weighed 238g. When I cut the top off it revealed a pale orange flesh with very little juice adhering to the flesh. The flesh was firm and fiberless with a few long strings noticeable on flesh direct on the peel. There was not a large amount of flesh to eat as this was a smaller sized mango with a big (what seems to be) polyembrionic seed. The taste was mildly sweet and slightly tangy with a peachy nuance and no resinous taste. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg90006;topicseen#msg90006)
-- The ones I tired early last year were a little washed out but the late seasons were excellent.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126129#msg126129)
-- Again, it can be picked mature green but will ripen much better and with peak flavor is left on the tree until it begins to or heavily obtains its yellow/golden base color.  When its allowed to color up on the tree, the texture and flavor will be amazing and a distinct honey taste is present. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9862.msg126230#msg126230)
Imam Passand (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221151#msg221151) ?-- ‘Imam Pasand’ is one of the best mangos of India, ideally suited for dessert, the table and show. The fruit weigh 16 oz or more and are a beautiful smooth oval at maturity. The skin is a dark green, with distinct white highlights over the entire surface. Upon ripening the fruit can attain a deep yellow blush the shoulders and mid-section. The tree has a trailing growth habit and is easily controlled by annual pruning. The properly pruned tree will have a full, spreading canopy of 8 to 10 ft in height and spread. During the fruiting season of June and July, ‘Imam Pasand’ hangs heavy with consistent production. The fruit should be harvested mature green and ripened off the tree at a temperature of 75° to 85° F. Harvesting should occur 2 to 4 weeks before ripening on the tree for the development of the best quality. Properly harvested and ripened fruit have a fiberless, silky flesh with a deep, sweet flavor and distinct citrus overtones. The tree and fruit are tolerant of diseases and require little in the way of special care.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183409#msg183409)
-- It is a large, not too attractive looking mango, mottled green that lightens to blotched yellow-green as it ripens. It has a hard stone which you can hear rattle inside . The flesh is a light yellow that looks unripe, and in fact, when you first bite in, there's a sourness that makes you think you've made a mistake. But the flesh is ripely smooth, with little stringiness, and then you realise the sourness is really a citrusy tang that adds a zest to the sweetness that spills over your palate. A friend's father who grew up near Tiruchirapalli tells me that he's heard the Imam Pasand was a cross between a Banganapalli and a Mulgoa. I don't know if this is scientifically accurate, but in taste terms it makes sense. It has the heft of a Banganapalli, the biggest mango of any quality, and its light yellow flesh, but where that tends towards sweet insipidity, with a chalky undertaste, a Mulgoa-like acid bite rescues it, adding lively interest. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14457.msg183431#msg183431)
Jehangir (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221152#msg221152)?-- I believe I tried it at Smather's place (Four Fillies farm)  years ago.  I think Crafton said it was introduced to Florida by Frank Smathers.  It was green skinned and almost white fleshed and wasn't very good.  Had some resinous flavor and not overly sweet.  It didn't have fiber but the flesh was firm. It was totally green on the outside.  Now that I look at the Fairchild book, it is rated Fair to Good (on the Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor scale).  That's the same as Tommy Atkins.  I don't rememer the tree as being any different in size than the rest of the trees there.  But, I am sure they were all well pruned. I think "exceptional quality" might not apply to this cultivar. Of course, the fruit I had might have been an aberation, but Crafton didn;t say that it was when we tried it.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13089#msg13089)
-- Didn't get a chance to ask Richard but I was told it was white fleshed. From Harry's description of it being resinous and you mentioning it's dwarf, it sounds like an excellent tree. I like the stronger 'spicy' flavored mangos and I think a white fleshed one would be cool to have. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1044.msg13107#msg13107)
Julie (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221153#msg221153)mid (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)-- Yep, that denser flesh is what I would call 'creamy'. There is an offspring of the Julie called a Gary which has even denser/creamier flesh. The Gary was used as the natural pollinator for many of the new Zill mango releases. Personally I much prefer a creamy mango over one that's 'watery'. That's why I'm going so berzerk over all the new Zill releases!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2142.msg29450#msg29450)
-- It has a complex, fruity-resinous flavor profile that I'd place in the Caribbean (e.g., Julie/Graham/Bombay) corner of the tasting table.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg210840;topicseen#msg210840)
Leo #2 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221154#msg221154)?-- The Leo #2 smells absolutely amazing and it has great color with yellow as the base and a sunset red blush. There are lenticels, otherwise this fruit can be as beautiful as a Maha Chanok ripened in the sun. The Leo #2 is an excellent tasting fruit with high Brix the last time I tested it. These fruit are not ripe yet but I'll get a Brix reading on them when they ripen up. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13514.msg171283#msg171283)
-- I just cut open the Leo#2 and it was soooo sweet. It had a Brix of 21.5% but tasted even sweeter because it lacked a bit of acidity to balance out the sweetness. Both my daughters and my wife loved. I liked it very much but wish it had a bit more acid. This fruit has a small amount of fibers, mostly concentrated around the seed. The flavor is hard to pin but to my palate had hints of Edward with a bit of Vanilla on the back end. Overall a great mango. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=13514.msg171409#msg171409)
Mahachanok (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221155#msg221155)extended (mid-early to late)(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg215115;topicseen#msg215115)-- Hi Clay, I'm really bad at describing mango flavors and taste...but here goes...its very sweet, no fiber till you get very close to the seed. The flavor is slightly stronger than my Glenn but not over powering. I prefer it over my Cogshall and I really like Cogshall...it has a little spicy overtones to it...not strong though. All I know is I really enjoy the taste and so does my husband. I too like the shape, very different than the mango varieties I have. These first (4) mangoes from this tree is small...I'm hoping the sizes will be larger next year since I planted it inground...depending on what type of winter we have. Thanks...Good luck to us all this winter that gets the occasional freeze...hope its not a bad one  :-\   Hi Obet, for me at least when I say a little 'spicy' overtones I definitely do not mean resinous or turpentine...I do not like the flavor of Carrie ( and its due to this "off" herb, medicial flavor and I'm not a fan of it) so when I say it has a little spice what I mean is its not bland or just sugary sweet, it has some nice mild spice (think of a hint of say cinammon,lol)...it has a very nice flavor that I like (very pleasant tasting). I have come to the conclusion I do not like strong and overly spicy...herb, medicinal overtones in mango...just prefer the regular sweet, fiberless mango with a good overall nice flavor with that tropical flavors you get...anything very strong I'm not big fan of...(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12031.msg160731#msg160731)
-- Maha Chanok - has the most complex and elegant flavor, more subtle than a Sweet Tart(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg215433;topicseen#msg215433)
-- the Maha Chanok...well the Angie has just had its death sentence I think! I let my husband have the first taste, and he made a hilarious face and proclaimed  "holy moly that's the sweetest mango I've ever tasted! Starts kind of coconutty and tart and then explodes with sweetness!" - I was most amused watching him. What did I think? One of the best mangos I've ever had! Very complex flavor, incredible sweetness near the skin, a good balance of sweet and subacid, flesh was firm and smooth with no fiber or mushiness - just outstanding! Not sure I taste cola syrup exactly, but do understand the comparison. There was absolutely no resinous or bitter flavor.  I thought the cut skin had a slightly piney scent, but there was no pine in the flavor. There is a distinctive scent to the fruit overall not unpleasant, fruity with a hint of earthiness, hard to pin down, and mostly stood out to me as smelling different than it tasted. Here's a pic of the fruit(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg213980;topicseen#msg213980)
Manilita (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221194#msg221194) early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16028.msg203911#msg203911)-- I just tasted my first home grown fruit and I was pleasantly surprised.  It had a very nice flavor and I was really expecting much less based upon other reviews here on the forum.  Is this a blue ribbon winner, a taste sensation?  No....its not, but is very respectable in overall eating experience, and for those that want an early, smaller, colorful skinned fruit that has a very manageable growth habit, this mango is worth the effort, in my humble opinion.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16028.msg203911#msg203911)
-- The flavor might not be top tier, but it is my favorite in my yard. Fragrant,  colorful, disease resistant, every fruit ripens perfectly, and while not complex, I like the flavor a lot. A perfect cogshalls will beat it in flavor, but this year I had about 50 manilitas and around 30 cogshalls, and due to inconsistent ripening in the cogshalls, I'd say around 3 were superior, the rest were beat out by the Manilita in flavor this year.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221117#msg221117)
-- My Manilita may be plain flavor wise, but it is a joy in the garden. Every fruit ripens unblemished and perfect, no uneven ripening, and it requires no spraying. Very easy tree. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211908#msg211908)
-- The flavor was in my opinion not top tier - not as good as an Edward. But it was quite a bit better than a store bought Honey mango. It is in the same flavor category, sweet and tart, but it has a richer flavor and is distinctly coconutty. It has a bit of pine flavor, but not so much as to be unpleasant. When I bought the tree, nobody had any comments on its flavor, but I purchased it because it is one of the smallest dwarfs and can be maintained very narrow. As you can see, the tree is staying quite small.  Since I like Honey mangos, I'm quite pleased. My only complaint about it is that it seems prone to fruit split. It set really well - 20 to 30 fruit, most of which grew to the size of small plums. But with all those rains we got a month ago, all but 4 fruit split=( But it ripens early, so many years it will be before we start the summer rains. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5816.msg77899#msg77899)

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 12, 2015, 11:08:19 PM
Continuation of the table

CultivarRipening SeasonFlavor Profile
Nam Doc Mai #4 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221195#msg221195)mid (there are some people who have gotten it to produce in the off season) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=829.msg10190#msg10190)-- NDM -nam doc mai is compact but the mango has straight sweet honey taste. I would plant it only if I have the more complex ones that also have tart component. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg220431;topicseen#msg220431)
-- NDM is just kind of a plain sweet mango.  No complexity. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg204428#msg204428)
--  NDM is a delicious and adding an asian mango , if you dont have one, may be the thing to do. Im not sure why NDM isnt a firat choice other than splitting issues, which may not be a problem in your area (my neighbors tree hasnt had a problem )(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207195#msg207195)
-- NDM is a "basic" sweet mango.  Good for someone who is just looking for that however if you are looking for something more in terms of complexity from an Asian/Thai, look towards a Mahachanok. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16073.msg207198#msg207198)
Neelam (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221197#msg221197)late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215258#msg215258)-- I nominate Neelam for the worst-tasting mango.  I've heard its off-flavor described as "carrot."  I'd call it "just plain nasty."  This was another mango where I fell for the Richard Campbell hype without tasting it.  Maybe if you had 50 mango trees, you could include Neelam, but if you only have four trees like me, you definitely don't want Neelam.  I don't care that it's a late-season mango--I'm chopping mine down!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215258#msg215258)
-- I've never tasted carrot it in. More like smooth, light, spicy sweet with a lil bit of tang. But hey, to each their own :).
For other reasons it quickly fell out of favor with me (small fruit, large seed, seed germinating in ripening mangoes on the tree!!!!)(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215262#msg215262)
-- lol.  This is how I felt about mallika...Just nasty--don't even want to try another one--just not for me. The neelam had what I describe as a vegetably taste....I almost said I liked them...then the aftertaste hit me, and I took neelam of the list.  I have been called crazy, but I also detect this aftertaste in cushman.  To each his own, but tasting is so important....especially with trees RC has recommended(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16981.msg215328#msg215328)
-- 'Neelam' is appreciated by those who want SOUR GREEN MANGOS FOR PICKLES, well into late season.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221708#msg221708)
Peggy (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221198#msg221198)late(?) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17319.msg219417#msg219417)--  Peggy brix 23 on ataulfo grafted last year(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?board=1.0)
-- It seems I had spoken too soon regarding Peggy not having rich flavor.  The 2nd of those two mangoes sat out a week longer, without any sign of breaking down, tasted fantastic.  It was sweeter and whatever acidity the 1st fruit had was not detected at all in this mango.  I dare to venture a turf war in say this mango is better than Pickering ;D Absolutely worth growing for SoCal, don't know if it's proven elsewhere.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45733;topicseen#msg45733)
-- Jim told me that Peggy's is called Ultimate, or something like that, because there is another variety in Florida by the same last name of Winter(20222). The Early Gold we had was a chance seedling of that variety from Captain Bucklew. I will call Jim and confirm. I think both of those mangos are excellent. Like I said, I don't know why they havent been propagated....they are superior mangos in the same category as Dot or Fairchild.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45135;topicseen#msg45135)
-- Of the mangoes sampled that day, many of us agreed Peggy was clearly the breadwinner.  Not as rich compared to others I've had, but outstanding flavor nonetheless.  Very sweet with a light sub-acid balance that sits just right, very juicy flavor - does that make any sense? Monoembryonic seed, Firm flesh, Fiberless, Sweet & nice aroma even before cut open(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg44951;topicseen#msg44951)
Pickering (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221199#msg221199)early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16027.msg203908#msg203908)-- Not an eye catching or pretty mango. Would not sell well due to the color alone. Taste-wise, this is the best mango I have eaten this year. The flesh is firm and has an outstanding coconut-pineapple flavor. Reminds me a bit of a good Julie mango but this is much better. How did I wait so many years to grow this? (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27523#msg27523)
-- Noel - have you noticed if you let the Pickering stay on the tree longer than normal and become fully ripe that it loses that pineapple (or hint of tartness) and takes on a stronger coconut (or "tropical") nuance/flavor ?(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27527#msg27527)
-- I picked this one when it was still hard as a rock and it had more coconut flavor with a slight pineapple nuance. I picked one today that was a bit soft so I will let you know if there is any difference. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2005.msg27528#msg27528)
-- The Good:  The first was properly ripened Pickering and was one of the best mangoes I have had so far this year.  It was sweet and creamy...it was very good.  The competition included:   Coconut Cream, Edward, Glenn, and Mahachanok (knocked off of the tree by my dog prematurely and counter ripened, not a fair test).  I may be eating my CC under ripe.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16027.msg203908#msg203908)
-- MANGO VARIETY PICKERING, By Walter Zill, "Beginning as a chance seedling sprouting in the grove planted by Laurence Zill in Boynton Beach, FL, it first caught my attention about 1980 when I saw about a half dozen fruit being supported by an unusually small plant having a trunk diameter of about one inch, with at total height about four feet, and numerous branches that bore small fruit.  The fruit were not impressive in any other way other than exisitng in abundance on such a tiny first fruiting seedling.  They turned bright yellow when ripe, and were suprisingly firm.  The flavor tasted to me somewhat like Carrie or Julie, and the growth habit known as Sophie Frey.  Animal habits being what they are, I surmise that a seed got transplanted some few feet west of a large fruiting Carrie tree where it germinated in the undercover beneath the limbs of an Irwin tree.  In 1983 a severe freeze caused great damage in the grove, killing back some mango limbs that were up to three inches in diameter, and resulting in nearly every mango leaf on the premises turning brown.  That exception, finding green leaves on that little seedling, caught my undivided attention.  I thought perhaps the plant had more resistance to cold than other mango varieties, but subsequnet seasons have shown damage much like other mangos when the temperature dips below freezing.  Eventually the seedling was transplanted  to where it could demonstrate it qualities.  It grew compactly and fruited heavily, fruit clinging  fairly well on the tree when ripe, with little bruising when they dropped.  When the tree grew larger, and in a season when fewer fruit set, the fruit weighed up to about two pounds, though average normal season weight is near one pound.  There came a time when Dr. Wayne Pickering inquired of me about having a mango named for him.  Since that variety had proven of sufficient worth to merit a good name, I sent a box of fruit from it to him to get his reaction.  When they ripened, and he had fairly sampled them, his response was, "That's my baby!".  So the name "Pickering" stuck.  When fully ripe it's among the sweetest mangos, with a texture sutable for slicing and dicing, and it's fine fibers providing desrable bulk.  As trees were multiplied and put into commercial plantings, it has provem very productive from compact trees.  Many who have become familiar with eating the "Pickering" often specify it for the eating qualities they like. It matures relatively early in mango season."(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg207100#msg207100)
Pina Colada (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221200#msg221200)?-- I've only tasted 6-8 Pina Colada mangos over the last few years.  Last week I ate two, one of which was a bit tart for my taste. The other was possibly the finest damn thing I have ever tasted. I would compare it to mango candy, except that no candy could be that good. I wonder if Patrick's care regimen was as successful with his Pina Colada as it was with Lemon Zest.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg154394#msg154394)
-- It can be very good if left to ripen to the proper stage prior to harvest.  Would I rank it in the tops, don't think so.  Texture is very soft.  Picked to early, it is very chalky and will not have the proper flavor profile it should have.  If space is limited and a factor, I would think hard about planting one.  If space is more on the unlimited side, then stick one in the ground. As for small mango and big seed, I am also not in the boat.  Its all about the quality first.  Sweet Tart is smaller in size with an obnoxious seed but I will highly recommend it because of its flavor.  I would rather eat two amazing mangoes than one average mango just based on flesh to seed ratio.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=11897.msg178997#msg178997)
-- I ate my first Pina Colada fruit yesterday. It was a bit tart similar to Sweet and tart mango. Did not taste like a pina colada cocktail. My tree is slow growing about 5.5 ft tall and the fruits are small. I give it a high rating but its is based on just one fruit.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16302.msg207474#msg207474)
Providence (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221201#msg221201)late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126110#msg126110)-- The providence I had from Walter's last summer was outstanding!  Huge fruit, and it ripened evenly--a good tart/sweet ratio, and good fiberless texture IIRC.  Ordered a tree shortly thereafter. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179529#msg179529)
-- To me Providence blows firchild away in terms of flavor, but I love a mango that has a tart component to balance the sweet.  It is also a much bigger mango than fairchild.  The one I had from walter's last summer was big enough to eat for a few days.  Very tasty!(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179366#msg179366)
-- Does it taste better, that is subjective.  Both are very good to excellent however two totally different profiles.  Fairchild is an overall very sweet mango with very little to no level of "tartness"/acidity  while Providence has a great balance between sweet and acid.  The longer Providence is left on the tree the more sweetness it takes on.  It can also be eaten green.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179388#msg179388)
-- Providence is a large mango, similar in size to a large Keitt.  It can be picked mature green or with some color, tastes best when picked with some color however it may have some issues if left on the tree too long.  Flavor, to me, is like a perfectly ripe Kent crossed with a perfectly ripe Keitt.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9859.msg126217#msg126217)
Rapoza (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221463#msg221463) late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=909.msg11203#msg11203)-- fruit size and color and flavor similar to 'Kent.'(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221444;topicseen#msg221444)
-- If what I hear is correct, the Florida red is the Hawaiian rapoza. That said, when Robert is here unloaded a bunch of Florida reds last late June, my wife thought they were some of the best mangos she's ever tasted. I'd agree that they were a top 5 for me that year. My rapoza is about to fruit this year for the first time. bloomed twice and is a vigorous grower. No disease problems yet. Wish I could tell you more.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134885#msg134885)
-- If you compare ratings for Florida Red versus ratings for Rapoza, you will see that Florida Red will get much higher ratings in Florida, even on this forum. Never mind that they are both the same mango. ::) What does this tell you about influence of preconceived ideas in ratings?  ;)
Rapoza does very well here in super rainy east Hawaii. It has great feature of continued flowering until it finally hits a bit of a dry spell, then you get a very good flower set. It has a lot of good qualities going for it: good coloration, good production, good sized, disease resistance, and ofcourse great taste. I'm sure it could be improved upon....but then again what fruit can't? It is a seedling and improved version of Irwin, so if you don't like Irwin you may not like it? I don't know i haven't tried Irwin yet.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg134891#msg134891)
-- Nothing bad about either however not my favorite.   Irwin had more of an almost generic mango taste like that of a really good Haden (not saying it tasted like a Haden but of just a classic mango flavor).  The Rapoza I have had have had a more distinctive flavor like that of a more intense Irwin with a citrusy component. Again, both were good but not what I would call my favorite. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg135093#msg135093)
-- Rapoza = ultra fibreless!  even the seed has no clinging fibres.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=10527.msg139554#msg139554)
-- At the Broward RFVC meeting, Eric from Pine Island spoke about rapoza.  He said they have been grown in Homestead for the last 20 years, marketed as Redland Reds.  He rated them a 10 in taste.  I bought a rapoza at the Fairchild mango festival last year.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5371.msg73990#msg73990)
Rosa (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221203#msg221203)very early and early (sometimes into mid--- extended harvest); (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221657#msg221657)-- ROSA MANGO, also called ROSA OF BAHIA or ROSA OF PERNAMBUCO! Is a traditional Brazilian variety, very early cultivar and is harvested before Tommy Atkins, Very good flavor and aroma. It is totally resistant to Fusarium (malformation).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1004.msg12451#msg12451)
-- I like 'Rosa' a lot, because I grew up eating it in northern Brazil, and because I like really strong-tasting mangos.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg10959;topicseen#msg10959)
-- Never had, nor even heard of Pope or Excel.  I did have a chance to taste (thanks to Murahilin) the Rosa, Tess and Hawaiian Dwarf.  Since these were the first mangoes of the season, not purchased from the store, they enjoy the glow of that status and get some additional points  for being so early. Kinda like my uncle who always said I was his favorite (but really only) nephew. All of these mangoes fall into the category, for me, as great, when there are no other mangoes around, but would never even be given a thought during the regular mango season. My least favorite was Hawaiian Dwarf.  It was small and somewhat firm and predominantly green on the outside.  I wondered if it was even ripe from its exterior feeling and look.  However, inside it was clear that it was ripe. It had been refrigerated.  So that could have affected its overall eating quality. I liked the other two more, but neither had any really superlative qualities.  I did try eating the skin with the Rosa as was suggested.  That did impart a small amount of resinous twang that Har inidcates that he refers in his mangoes. For me, the skin is a bit too tough to really give me any enjoyment in the eating of the otherwise softer, succulent mango flesh. I will not be making a habit of eating the skin on this or any other mango in all probability.  But, as Har indicated, there is no biterness in the Rosa skin....which I will be taking his word is different than what you get when you eat the skin of other mangoes. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg12164;topicseen#msg12164)
-- 'Rosa' is very firm, moderately fibrous, sweet-tart and very resinous if you eat the skin with the pulp--- delicious, with none of the bitterness found in the skins of most other varieties.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg11321;topicseen#msg11321)
-- Rosa is similar to Palmer mango in taste!(My opinion) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=887.msg11023;topicseen#msg11023)
Rosigold (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221215#msg221215) very-early to early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg95288;topicseen#msg95288)-- I've eaten a couple Rosigolds this month. The first, very ripe, was just sweet enough to justify eating the whole fruit. The second, just barely ripe, did taste pretty good, nice blend of sweet and tart.   Maybe not quite as "mangoey" as I'd prefer.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=612.msg114942#msg114942)
-- Then was a first season Rosigold. Nice strong flavor (we have had almost no rain on the east coast of florida this summer), but a little disappointing. I did not think it was very sweet. Maybe the ones later will be better.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15633.msg210608#msg210608)
--  I have only tried one early rosigold, and found it good, but not great--kinda rubbery and not complex. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9681.msg138617#msg138617)
-- During June or July your right Rosigold would be just a decent mango, nothing to write home about...But in April, its an excellent mango thats far better then anything else available. I had my first one of the season yesterday and it was outstanding. It certainly gets bonus points for fruiting in April when its the only mango.  (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1045.msg13347#msg13347)
Rudiett (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg236459#msg236459)late-- Rudiett is excellent just had a two pounder ( brix20) delicious :) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235449#msg235449)
-- Rudiett (20 brix) a Keitt seedling. It's a late mango, October to March, totally fiberless, firm and fruity....the fruit punch of the West coast.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235535#msg235535)
Son Pari (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221216#msg221216)mid and late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)-- Son Pari is medium large, yellow outside and orangey inside.  This mango has a good turpentine like flavour but is not as rich as a Bombay or other Indian mangoes.  I enjoyed it and certainly had a sharp contrast to Autumn.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15518.msg213774#msg213774)
-- Sonpari: Alphonso x Baneshan(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12971.msg164961#msg164961)
Thomson (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221217#msg221217)mid to late(REF) (http://)--  The fruit is small fiberless and lemony sweet. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221204#msg221204http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221204#msg221204)
-- Found out from and old article that the varieties ;' T-1' and 'Thomson' were seedlings that Paul T. took from Old Mango that was on the property when he bought the place in Vista. That old tree was called Edgehill because his property was at end of Edgehill street at the time. That's very cool that your saving some of those varieties hopefully will grow strong for you!
Joe, there has to be a treasure drove of Mangos down in that area with all those people experimenting with them for all those years back when! Looking through the old F.G. I found out Orton H. Englehart registered a Ortonio avocado witch I had never heard of compared to Creamhart which I have heard of! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg86475;topicseen#msg86475)
-- Scott, Jim Nitzel told us last year that Leo took cutting from Mr. Thomson and  Colonal Bucklew yards as well as other influential SoCal mango growers. They have quite a large selection that are not publish in the Fruit Gardener. For example, the Giant Rose is a large creamy, sweet, fruity mango  with a peachy taste.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6522.msg86413;topicseen#msg86413)
-- JF - thanks for the Peggy/Ultimate clarification.  You guys speak so highly of Thomson mangoes, I wonder how much flavor improvement from the Manila?  I like Manila but that's because they're always available.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45205#msg45205)
-- Thomson T-1 mango - according to Leo, Paul Thomson preferred this mango many times over his other commercialized cultivar, Thomson mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg44947;topicseen#msg44947)
-- Thompson-(syn. Thomson Large Seedling) Origin Vista, Paul Thomson, 1966. Manila seedling, polyembryonic. Tree spreading, vigor dependent upon rootstock. Fruit small to medium, (6-12 oz.), yellow, shape flat, to eight inches. Resists mildew. High fiber under chemical fertilizer regime. Season early, long (September-November), ripens well indoors if picked prematurely. For coast(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)
Tomato (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221804#msg221804)early (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221811#msg221811)-- Tomato mango is one of the finest mangos in the area. Leo Manuel, Mango Professor and Jim Nietzel loved it! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15460.msg197265#msg197265)
-- The fruit is small and flat like a tomato. About the size of Anwar Ratol Manohar, strong , sweet, spice flavor  with little  to no fiber. This one was one of Jim Nietzel and Leo Manual favorite in 2013 La Habra tasting. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221782#msg221782)
-- I had a tomato mango this morning quite a unique tasting mango....I really enjoyed it. Jim and Leo are lucky to have scion. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7307.msg95133#msg95133)
Venus (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221218#msg221218)late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14164.msg179262#msg179262)-- Venus has a lovely flavor - really delicious -  but it also has the same subtle spice element found in Maha Chanok.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16712.msg211887#msg211887)
-- I got to try Venus.  The flavor is unique.  At first I called it "perfumey."  But it's actually more like rose or rosewater--at least the ones I sampled from a famous wholesale nursery in Lake Worth.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16042.msg212842#msg212842)
-- Venue should be considered as a top choice for two reasons.  It is an excellent mango and it is late season.  It does eem to have a compact growth habit, very good production and fruit are on the larger size (the three best late season mangoes IMO in terms of taste and production are Venus, Honey Kiss and Beverly).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16042.msg204056#msg204056)
-- Venus - superior ZINC seedling - yum! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=16992.msg215433;topicseen#msg215433)
-- Venus was mostly rich, sweet, funky and cola syrupy. The chalky taste was very faint, if I tasted it closely comparing it to Zinc it was there, but probably wouldn't notice it unless reviewing. If it gets better when more ripe or later in the year then i am looking forward to the next one.Great tasting mango.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.msg209341;topicseen#msg209341)
Villa Señor (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221219#msg221219)mid-late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.msg45088;topicseen#msg45088)-- This is a Socal variety, very underrated, nice flavor.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg38071#msg38071)
-- I've grown this mango two blocks from the ocean in south Ocean Beach in San Diego.   Villa Senor is an excellent mild mango, beautiful sweet yummy mango flavor, beautifully strong skin(not a weak skin), beautiful orange flesh, low fiber, no diseases on the fruit, no disease on the leaves.  Light brown new growth.  I grafted two seedlings that I planted from seed from store bought mangos of whatever varieties, with the Villa Senor in the late 1990's.   The seedlings were about 7 years old already, didn't produce any worthwhile fruit as seedlings.   However, in 2009 I had them both taken out in due to redevelopment.  Bonita Creek Nursery has one of them, which they're using for scion propagation.   A super basic easy growing problem free mango with basic beautiful flavor.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg44655#msg44655)
-- Mild may be "perfect" for some people.  its all about personal taste. there will probably never be a "perfect" mango, because of different preferences.  I would rather have a mild, sweet mango that  has a creamy texture, and nice aroma, than an intense variety that is grainy. I like Kent and Glenn which are have been labeled "mild". and that's another point, mild to one person may be strong for another, I have even seen Keitts described as Mild, I wouldn't call those mild. and what is it that classifies a variety as mild? just weak flavor, or low acidity? or low aroma? I mean you could have a variety that has good mango flavor, but may be low in acid and aroma, and to some that may be considered mild. then there are those that like that resin turpy flavor, and use that as the scale of what is mild or not.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2699.msg38261#msg38261)
White Pari (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221220#msg221220)mid and late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221656#msg221656)-- I agree that the Indian Pari shown in the website is a little weird looking with the pointed end. But the Pairi/Pari/Paheri should all be the same...according to literature that I have read. I have been researching the origin of the Pirie mango for some time...since the Hawaiian Pirie (and White Pirie) are my favorite mangos. The Hawaiian Pirie is a descendant of the Pairi/Paheri of India. Likewise, the Bombay is also a seedling descendant of the Paheri from India.
So that's why I am so interested to see if MangoFang's Bombay is similar in taste to the Hawaiian Pirie.  To the best of my knowledge, nobody in SoCal other than MangoFang has a Bombay.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=8771.msg112831#msg112831)
-- The obvious fact that the WORDS "Paheri", "Pari", "Pairi", and "Piri" are linguistically related ("pear" and "pera" may belong there too), does not mean that mangoes bearing those words in their names are the same or similar varieties.  So 'Paheri' (Bombay), 'Son Pari', and 'White Pari', should not be confounded.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221708#msg221708)

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 13, 2015, 08:48:19 AM
This chart needs to be taken for a grain of salt for one reason, trees can have differing characteristics and results when grown in different locations (Florida,  California,  Arizona,  etc.), so what may be accurate for a variety grown in Florida may not be the same elsewhere.   Also kerp in mind if top we orking scions onto true mature trees, none of the above may apply.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 13, 2015, 09:38:27 AM
This chart needs to be taken for a grain of salt for one reason, trees can have differing characteristics and results when grown in different locations (Florida,  California,  Arizona,  etc.), so what may be accurate for a variety grown in Florida may not be the same elsewhere.   Also kerp in mind if top we orking scions onto true mature trees, none of the above may apply.


Rob, completely agreed. And in fact I made that very clear in the disclaimer before the table, the part in bold at the top of the table: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221719#msg221719 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221719#msg221719)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 13, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
This chart needs to be taken for a grain of salt for one reason, trees can have differing characteristics and results when grown in different locations (Florida,  California,  Arizona,  etc.), so what may be accurate for a variety grown in Florida may not be the same elsewhere.   Also kerp in mind if top we orking scions onto true mature trees, none of the above may apply.

So true.  We have a lot of mango growers in Texas which has a shorter growing season than S. Florida.  So, call me crazy, but I'm putting in Sweet Tart in the greenhouse after pulling a Rio Red grapefruit tree that is not very productive. 

I hear that Sweet Tart is a moderate grower and a rather smaller tree for Florida growers?  True or not? 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 13, 2015, 10:56:33 AM
This chart needs to be taken for a grain of salt for one reason, trees can have differing characteristics and results when grown in different locations (Florida,  California,  Arizona,  etc.), so what may be accurate for a variety grown in Florida may not be the same elsewhere.   Also kerp in mind if top we orking scions onto true mature trees, none of the above may apply.

So true.  We have a lot of mango growers in Texas which has a shorter growing season than S. Florida.  So, call me crazy, but I'm putting in Sweet Tart in the greenhouse after pulling a Rio Red grapefruit tree that is not very productive. 

I hear that Sweet Tart is a moderate grower and a rather smaller tree for Florida growers?  True or not?

No, I do not see it as a smaller tree.  It seems to be an upright grower and while may be slowed when let to fruit when young, i would say its moderately vigorous.   Grown in your locaton and in a greenhouse with pruning, you may be able to keep in check for a while.  Ultimately what it will turn into as a mature tree is the unknown.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Cookie Monster on September 13, 2015, 02:03:02 PM
That table is very nice. The fact that it includes input from various members really helps. You should put it in a google document (eg, a spreadsheet) and just have members update it on their own.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Cookie Monster on September 13, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
Sweet Tart was listed as a "compact grower" in zill's price list, but my experience has been that it's upright and reasonably vigorous.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 13, 2015, 02:56:05 PM
Tomato mango is another compact little mango tree.  A mature Tree is  8 x 6.5 . The fruit is small and flat like a tomato. About the size of Anwar Ratol Manohar, strong , sweet, spice flavor  with little  to no fiber. This one was one of Jim Nietzel and Leo Manual favorite in 2013 La Habra tasting.

Mother tree
25 years old


(http://s27.postimg.cc/vmss4zuan/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vmss4zuan/)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 13, 2015, 05:42:04 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Tomato

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- Tomato mango is another compact little mango tree.  A mature Tree is  8 x 6.5 (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221782#msg221782)

-- This is a natural dwarf,(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221811#msg221811)

Productivity and Precociousness

--  it's an alternate bearer heavy one year very light the next(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221811#msg221811)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- early season mango in Socal (August).(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221811#msg221811)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Tomato mango is one of the finest mangos in the area. Leo Manuel, Mango Professor and Jim Nietzel loved it! (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15460.msg197265#msg197265)

-- The fruit is small and flat like a tomato. About the size of Anwar Ratol Manohar, strong , sweet, spice flavor  with little  to no fiber. This one was one of Jim Nietzel and Leo Manual favorite in 2013 La Habra tasting. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221782#msg221782)

-- I had a tomato mango this morning quite a unique tasting mango....I really enjoyed it. Jim and Leo are lucky to have scion. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7307.msg95133#msg95133)

-- I have one graft on a cocktail tree and it's doing great. Only drawback is that's very susceptible to powdery mildew from March to June.... I've seen it lose it's entire crop. I told the owners that sulphur applications are absolutely necessary however they've ignored it and paid the price.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg221811#msg221811)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 13, 2015, 05:48:01 PM
That table is very nice. The fact that it includes input from various members really helps. You should put it in a google document (eg, a spreadsheet) and just have members update it on their own.

Thanks Cookie Monster! That is a good suggestion, let me think about that one.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 13, 2015, 05:49:19 PM
Tomato mango is another compact little mango tree.  A mature Tree is  8 x 6.5 . The fruit is small and flat like a tomato. About the size of Anwar Ratol Manohar, strong , sweet, spice flavor  with little  to no fiber. This one was one of Jim Nietzel and Leo Manual favorite in 2013 La Habra tasting.

Mother tree
25 years old


Thanks JF! Wow, for 25 years old that is really staying nice and compact! I updated the master list, and added a page and table entry for the Tomato mango!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 13, 2015, 06:10:44 PM
Sweet Tart was listed as a "compact grower" in zill's price list, but my experience has been that it's upright and reasonably vigorous.

If you read through that list, therecare a number of characteristics that need to be corrected.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on September 13, 2015, 07:13:28 PM
Tomato mango is another compact little mango tree.  A mature Tree is  8 x 6.5 . The fruit is small and flat like a tomato. About the size of Anwar Ratol Manohar, strong , sweet, spice flavor  with little  to no fiber. This one was one of Jim Nietzel and Leo Manual favorite in 2013 La Habra tasting.

Mother tree
25 years old


Thanks JF! Wow, for 25 years old that is really staying nice and compact! I updated the master list, and added a page and table entry for the Tomato mango!

This is a natural dwarf, it's an alternate bearer heavy one year very light the next and early season mango in Socal (August). I have one graft on a cocktail tree and it's doing great. Only drawback is that's very susceptible to powdery mildew from March to June.... I've seen it lose it's entire crop. I told the owners that sulphur applications are absolutely necessary however they've ignored it and paid the price.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 14, 2015, 07:57:46 AM
Great input from all. Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: BluePalm on September 14, 2015, 09:04:01 AM
I was the poster who said the Mallika tasted like carrots; and they did one year. However, in subsequent years, if they are picked at the right time they are some of the best mangoes I've had. However, they are finicky on when to be picked, and if picked too early/too late can have a carrot taste or fizz grape soda taste (overripe). I would not ax the tree we have.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 14, 2015, 10:50:32 AM
I have a Mallika but I let them go completely ripe/yellow on the tree being a newbie with growing mangos.  Taste was fantastic, brix was at a whopping 26, but the flesh was soft which I don't like.  First time harvesting so I'll learn.  Gonna harvest next time "ripe green" and let it ripen on the counter as recommended.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 14, 2015, 11:22:56 AM
I was the poster who said the Mallika tasted like carrots; and they did one year. However, in subsequent years, if they are picked at the right time they are some of the best mangoes I've had. However, they are finicky on when to be picked, and if picked too early/too late can have a carrot taste or fizz grape soda taste (overripe). I would not ax the tree we have.

It's not just mallika anymore. Accusations flying around, other mangoes also having a carrot taste such as Val-Carrie

https://goo.gl/sWXdnp
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 14, 2015, 12:18:46 PM
Val Carrie has a carrot taste??  Huh?   ???
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on September 14, 2015, 01:41:56 PM
Val Carrie has a carrot taste??  Huh?   ???


Said here http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.440;wap2 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.440;wap2)         Don't shoot me I just play the piano downstairs
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on September 14, 2015, 02:14:17 PM
Val Carrie has a carrot taste??  Huh?   ???


Said here [url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.440;wap2[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6398.440;wap2[/url])         Don't shoot me I just play the piano downstairs


Consider the source. ..from someone who has described a mango as tasting  like that of goddess nectar and other off the wall descriptions.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 14, 2015, 02:54:10 PM
Tough crowd tonight........  8)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 23, 2015, 12:03:04 PM

This is a natural dwarf, it's an alternate bearer heavy one year very light the next and early season mango in Socal (August). I have one graft on a cocktail tree and it's doing great. Only drawback is that's very susceptible to powdery mildew from March to June.... I've seen it lose it's entire crop. I told the owners that sulphur applications are absolutely necessary however they've ignored it and paid the price.

Table and cultivar description updated, thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on September 23, 2015, 12:06:24 PM
I was the poster who said the Mallika tasted like carrots; and they did one year. However, in subsequent years, if they are picked at the right time they are some of the best mangoes I've had. However, they are finicky on when to be picked, and if picked too early/too late can have a carrot taste or fizz grape soda taste (overripe). I would not ax the tree we have.

Thanks BluePalm, I updated with Mallika page with this tasting comment.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: rcantor on December 27, 2015, 10:18:21 PM
When people describe the tomato mango as having a spice note to its taste, is that a euphemism for turpentine?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: gunnar429 on December 27, 2015, 11:30:40 PM
Rob, I know you said Frances Hargrave is a slow grower, maybe good for pot culture...would you consider it worthy of this list of compact growers (like Maha and Pickering in the sense that they can be kept small, but may one day get large if left unchecked)?

Only had one FH fruit and it was slightly overripe, but it had a great flavor IIRC
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on January 25, 2016, 03:13:18 PM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Amrapali

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- dwarf(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)

-- Amrapali is supposed to be dwarf (http://www.fruitipedia.com/Mango.htm (http://www.fruitipedia.com/Mango.htm))(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1148.msg14931#msg14931)

-- Mango trees to keep in container: Amrapali(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14054.msg178419#msg178419)

-- Unfortunately Alfonso's don't do very well in the U.S. I only had a few decent ones. Amrapali grown in SoCal is much better than Alfonso. Do you have this variety in tenerife? According to sources in India Amrapali is a few years away from toppling Alfonso as the King of mangos.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226476#msg226476)

-- Amrapali and Jumbo Amrapali are slow growers here but the fruit is much better than Malika and Alfonso. Alfonso has major internal breakdown and Malika is difucult to time.
here are pix of Amrapali & Jumbo Amrapali grafted next to each other and Alfonso  sponge internal breakdown some turn black.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226626#msg226626)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- precocious, a regular and heavy bearer(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- late in the season (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- My one and only runt fruit was picked green and ripened on the counter for a week. Taste was awesome! To me, the taste is right up there with the  Alphonso mango. Sorry, didn't take pictures of the cut fruit. Remembered it had deep orange color flesh. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17429.msg220248#msg220248)

-- From Julia Morton: "Another new hybrid, 'Amrapali', of which 'Dashehari' was the female parent and 'Neelam' the male, is definitely dwarf, precocious, a regular and heavy bearer, and late in the season. The fruit is only medium in size; flesh is rich orange, fiberless, sweet and 2 to 3 times as high in carotene as either parent."(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14210.msg179958#msg179958)

-- Forgot to add this mango the real Amrapali
Brix 27  this is one of the sweetest I've had right there with White Chaunsa & Gary but much more complex. Reminds me of the floral taste of seacrest with a slight piney finish. We will propagate this variety next year as well as Jumbo Amrapali.
Amrapali is from the same hybrid breeding project Malika came from in India but unlike Malika you don't need to play the guessing  game when to harvest it. Top 10 mango(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226457#msg226457)

-- This year I tasted Amrapali for the first time. The taste was excellent! In taste and texture was like the Alphonso mangos from India that I have enjoyed in the past. (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18066.msg226462#msg226462)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on January 26, 2016, 05:05:42 PM
When people describe the tomato mango as having a spice note to its taste, is that a euphemism for turpentine?  Thanks.

No spicy is a distinct mango flavor. It can sometimes be combined with a turpentine (which I would describe as piney [pleasant] vs resinous [unpleasant]).

There are quite a few mango flavors that people tend to describe (and some of the will happen in lots of combinations in some mangoes):
- Classic: Overall sweet mango flavor like in Hayden or Kent or Manila
- Honey: Honey flavor and aroma like in NDM
- Spicy: distinct sharp flavor of spice in the way that coriander seed can be described as a spicy orange flavor
- Tropical: Coconut or pineapple (or both!)
- Piney: very refreshing when it balances sweet, like in Alphonso
- Tart: acidic or sub-acid component that balances sweet in a very different way, like in LZ or Keitt

There are other descriptions too (and the real connoisseurs will discern those), but I would say these are the basic categories.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on January 26, 2016, 05:10:09 PM
Rob, I know you said Frances Hargrave is a slow grower, maybe good for pot culture...would you consider it worthy of this list of compact growers (like Maha and Pickering in the sense that they can be kept small, but may one day get large if left unchecked)?

Only had one FH fruit and it was slightly overripe, but it had a great flavor IIRC

Possibly another to add to the list ? :)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on January 26, 2016, 05:56:01 PM
Rob, I know you said Frances Hargrave is a slow grower, maybe good for pot culture...would you consider it worthy of this list of compact growers (like Maha and Pickering in the sense that they can be kept small, but may one day get large if left unchecked)?

Only had one FH fruit and it was slightly overripe, but it had a great flavor IIRC


Possibly another to add to the list ? :)


If you wish to add Rudiett is a natural dwarf

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.0)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: rcantor on January 27, 2016, 01:08:36 AM
When people describe the tomato mango as having a spice note to its taste, is that a euphemism for turpentine?  Thanks.

No spicy is a distinct mango flavor. It can sometimes be combined with a turpentine (which I would describe as piney [pleasant] vs resinous [unpleasant]).

There are quite a few mango flavors that people tend to describe (and some of the will happen in lots of combinations in some mangoes):
- Classic: Overall sweet mango flavor like in Hayden or Kent or Manila
<snip>

There are other descriptions too (and the real connoisseurs will discern those), but I would say these are the basic categories.

Since there's no 'like' button I'll just say, Thanks!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on January 27, 2016, 10:40:31 AM
Cultivar Information for the master list of compact mango trees (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0)

Cultivar Name: Rudiett

Tree Size, Growth Rate, Vigorousness

-- natural dwarf(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.msg236374#msg236374)

-- super dwarf (see pic) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235978#msg235978)

Productivity and Precociousness

-- super (dwarf and) producer(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235978#msg235978)

Ripening Time (Location dependent)

-- late (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18786.msg234253#msg234253)

Flavor / Color / Tasting Notes

-- Rudiett is excellent just had a two pounder ( brix20) delicious :) (REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235449#msg235449)

-- Rudiett (20 brix) a Keitt seedling. It's a late mango, October to March, totally fiberless, firm and fruity....the fruit punch of the West coast.(REF) (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.msg235535#msg235535)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on January 27, 2016, 10:47:32 AM
Rob, I know you said Frances Hargrave is a slow grower, maybe good for pot culture...would you consider it worthy of this list of compact growers (like Maha and Pickering in the sense that they can be kept small, but may one day get large if left unchecked)?

Only had one FH fruit and it was slightly overripe, but it had a great flavor IIRC


Possibly another to add to the list ? :)


If you wish to add Rudiett is a natural dwarf

[url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.0[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=18899.0[/url])


Thanks JF! I added an entry for it and updated the list and table!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on February 09, 2016, 08:39:27 PM
I was watching the Daley Fruit Biodome tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKxEjN5C_k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKxEjN5C_k) and at 3:40 she states that Irwin is a dwarf mango.

Would that be a good one to put on the list? Do you find it to be a dwarf cultivar?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: wslau on February 10, 2016, 12:07:40 AM
Starch,
Rliou and I both have Irwin, and it appears to be a slow grower in SoCal.  His is on turpentine rootstock and mine is on ataulfo rootstock.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangomandan on February 10, 2016, 12:55:10 AM
Irwin does well as a greenhouse mango in Japan.

I don't know about their growing techniques. Possibly considered trade secrets?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: JF on February 10, 2016, 01:07:47 AM
Irwin is pretty average mango. I yanked mine out last year but as Warren says it's a slow growing mango in the West Coast.

Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: fyliu on February 10, 2016, 03:09:39 AM
Irwin does well as a greenhouse mango in Japan.

I don't know about their growing techniques. Possibly considered trade secrets?
They grow them in greenhouses because outside is too cold. They really like the color of it so they have reflectors to color it up all around and shade hats to keep each fruit from burning. I think greenhouse is the technique although they must have mad pruning skills. Who knows if Irwin is really dwarf. If they can bonsai a redwood, I bet pruning any regular mango into a dwarf is no problem.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on February 10, 2016, 07:58:32 AM
Thanks for the responses all! So it sounds like while Irwin might make it onto the list for growth rate, it might not make the cut as a 'high-quality' mango. I was reading some more reviews of Irwin and many people say it is a pretty mango but very underwhelming flavor wise.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on February 10, 2016, 08:16:26 AM
Thanks for the responses all! So it sounds like while Irwin might make it onto the list for growth rate, it might not make the cut as a 'high-quality' mango. I was reading some more reviews of Irwin and many people say it is a pretty mango but very underwhelming flavor wise.

Not dwarf/compact nor decent quality here in Florida. 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on February 10, 2016, 08:17:43 AM
Not dwarf/compact nor decent quality here in Florida.

Well then, I think that makes it definitive :) No Irwin on the list!
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: Tropheus76 on February 10, 2016, 09:16:48 AM
I am surprised Graham is not on the list since it supposedly is a smaller mango. Not sure on the taste of them though.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on February 10, 2016, 09:55:18 AM
I am surprised Graham is not on the list since it supposedly is a smaller mango. Not sure on the taste of them though.

Yes, a smaller, more compact tree...while some like it (from what I have seen it is more people from the Caribbean and also some who like Julie) however it is not well liked by the majority/masses. 
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on February 10, 2016, 10:06:00 AM
How would you compare the flavor profile of Graham with the flavor profile of Carrie?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: wslau on February 10, 2016, 10:10:51 AM
Iirc, in a YouTube video, Dr. Crane described Graham as similar to Carrie but with less intensity.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on February 10, 2016, 10:38:45 AM
How would you compare the flavor profile of Graham with the flavor profile of Carrie?

Both crappy.  Wouldn't grow either but that is just my opinion.  If i were growing to sell the fruit, its a no brainer,  Carrie.   Carrie is loved by many.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: starch on February 10, 2016, 11:40:40 AM
wslau,

Thanks!

Rob,
How would you compare the flavor profile of Graham with the flavor profile of Carrie?

Both crappy.  Wouldn't grow either but that is just my opinion.  If i were growing to sell the fruit, its a no brainer,  Carrie.   Carrie is loved by many.

Ha! I was looking for something a little more constructive / descriptive than "both crappy" :)

Are they both resinous / piney? (the way Carrie is). Are they both fiberless / super-soft texture? (the way Carrie is)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: gunnar429 on April 01, 2016, 06:25:40 AM
wslau,

Thanks!

Rob,
How would you compare the flavor profile of Graham with the flavor profile of Carrie?

Both crappy.  Wouldn't grow either but that is just my opinion.  If i were growing to sell the fruit, its a no brainer,  Carrie.   Carrie is loved by many.

Ha! I was looking for something a little more constructive / descriptive than "both crappy" :)

Are they both resinous / piney? (the way Carrie is). Are they both fiberless / super-soft texture? (the way Carrie is)

Graham is a very interesting flavor....not like many others I have tried.  I am sure others have more experience with it, but the few I have tried had no real sweetness, and more of a funky flavor.  I recall Chris Rollins stating in one of his classes that every 5 or 6 years, Graham is excellent.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: darkcoolboo on April 17, 2016, 05:30:47 AM
How tall could a carrie and maha chanok be reasonably kept?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: WGphil on April 18, 2016, 07:33:01 AM
Gave my carrie tree away.   Dug it up and planted it in a buddies yard and put in a fruit punch instead. 

Lost a year but the too soft Carrie had to go and I needed the room for better tasting fruit imo.   
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: gunnar429 on April 18, 2016, 10:32:21 AM
Gave my carrie tree away.   Dug it up and planted it in a buddies yard and put in a fruit punch instead. 

Lost a year but the too soft Carrie had to go and I needed the room for better tasting fruit imo.

well-done!  8)
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: savemejebus on April 18, 2016, 11:52:26 AM
Gave my carrie tree away.   Dug it up and planted it in a buddies yard and put in a fruit punch instead. 

Lost a year but the too soft Carrie had to go and I needed the room for better tasting fruit imo.

well-done!  8)

Agreed, though I wouldn't subject any "buddy" of mine to Carrie.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: merce3 on April 18, 2016, 07:13:10 PM
How tall could a carrie and maha chanok be reasonably kept?

+1 ... interested in hearing about maha chanok
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: zands on April 19, 2016, 05:45:40 AM
Gave my carrie tree away.   Dug it up and planted it in a buddies yard and put in a fruit punch instead.  Lost a year but the too soft Carrie had to go and I needed the room for better tasting fruit imo.
File this one under:
Life is too short to be stuck w mangoes you don't like.

+1 ... interested in hearing about maha chanok

Very impressive tree when loaded with these exotic looking mangoes.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: merce3 on April 19, 2016, 07:50:22 AM
Gave my carrie tree away.   Dug it up and planted it in a buddies yard and put in a fruit punch instead.  Lost a year but the too soft Carrie had to go and I needed the room for better tasting fruit imo.
File this one under:
Life is too short to be stuck w mangoes you don't like.

+1 ... interested in hearing about maha chanok

Very impressive tree when loaded with these exotic looking mangoes.

thanks! how vigorous is it in terms of growth habit? will I be able to keep it compact?
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: bsbullie on April 19, 2016, 08:20:42 AM
The Mahachanok is not vigorous at all.  In fact, when young in can be a little slower growing.  Over the years, with proper pruning, it can be nicely kept at 12 - 15 feet.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: merce3 on April 20, 2016, 12:41:12 AM
The Mahachanok is not vigorous at all.  In fact, when young in can be a little slower growing.  Over the years, with proper pruning, it can be nicely kept at 12 - 15 feet.

Thanks Rob. That's good to know. I have it in a good spot between my Pickering and Fruit Punch then.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: darkcoolboo on April 20, 2016, 11:39:19 PM
The Mahachanok is not vigorous at all.  In fact, when young in can be a little slower growing.  Over the years, with proper pruning, it can be nicely kept at 12 - 15 feet.


I also think it's great that it can be planted in a space that otherwise would have went to a guava tree.
Title: Re: Compact Mango Suggestions
Post by: mangologist on July 16, 2018, 05:34:35 PM
This is the third year of harvest for my Alampur Banershan.  Every fruit has cracked.  This is not a split like NDM, but an irregular crack or on some multiple cracks.  It does not affect but the skin and perhaps 1/16" into the flesh.  Even with this said, it is in my top 5 of best tasting mangos.   At our Tropical Fruit Club meeting a few months ago, the speaker, a commercial mango grower, was asked why he didn't mention the A B mango, and he said, the cracking problem has not been solved, the fruit while very delicious, could not be sold.  He said I should have planted an Alphonso!
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