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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 07:30:57 PM

Title: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 07:30:57 PM
I get lots of questions regarding how best to plant a Mango tree here in SoCal so I decided to start this thread. I should first qualify, or disqualify, myself as I am a relatively new mango grower and my trees are not the largest nor healthiest. I'm a typical lazy backyard gardener, often putting my daughters before my plants so my trees rarely get fertilizer these days and it's probably been over a year since I adjusted the pH of the rootzone with phosphoric acid and Sulfur.

A serious gardener will send out soil samples for analysis and this thread is not for the serious mango grower. This thread will be very general without any advanced techniques or equipment. This is the "Keep It Simple Stupid" technique using easy to find rootstock and some experience I've gained from mentors like Leo Manuel, Jim Neitzel and many others.

I've been killing mango trees for years so listen to my advice with a grain of salt but I am quite knowledgeable about the science of growing mango trees. First of all, when someone tells you what or how to do something, there should be a reason why. If that person is not giving an explanation why they do it that way or has some proof that the technique works, you may want to look elsewhere for advice.

I'll have to continue this subject in short segments as my kids keep me extremely busy.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 08:08:00 PM
Edited to include link
Florida rootstock trees donít perform well for most gardeners
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0)

So, why not just plant a mango tree that you buy from the local nursery like you would any other fruit tree? There are several reasons. Firstly, Mangos are marginal here in SoCal and although they can withstand the cold in some counties of Southern California, they cannot easily grow unprotected in many other counties of SoCal. Mango growth is heavily influenced by climate and wether new growth is vegetative(leaves and shoots) or floral is primarily dependent on temperature. This holds true for Mangos in SoCal but not necessarily in warmer climates where age of previous flushes can also be of major significance. Aside from age of flushes and temperature, nutrition can aid in flowering promoting bigger or more flowers and can even help inhibit fruit drop.

Please see this article for in depth information on Mango flowering:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 17, 2017, 08:58:44 PM
The three major problems growing Mango trees here is the cold weather, diseases and high pH soils. For areas where Mango can grow unprotected outdoors, we have the issue of continual flowering caused by the cold weather. A new Mango grower is often attracted to the beautiful small potted mango trees in full bloom often holding some small fruit. What typically happens is the happy customer purchases this tree and tries to allow the small tree to mature the fruit. If the tree is large enough, the grower may actually be able to harvest a few fruit. The fruit quality is often mediocre at best and the tree becomes stunted from the efforts. The following year, the tree often grows very little and will often try to bloom again as cold weather approaches.

Because the tree was stressed holding fruit the first year, there is very little root and shoot growth the following year and the grower may actually experience what I like to call the "Magical Shrinking Tree" where instead of growing, the tree actually recedes with each passing year. In Warmer climates, a tree may simply veg out the following year in order to recover but in marginal climates, the cold weather is too strong a stimulus and the tree will flower again in the second, third, and following years. Flowering here in SoCal can take up to half a year or more.

Flowering can begin as early as October(sometimes earlier) and nightly low temperatures can still induce blooms as late as June and July as it did with some of my trees last year. I posted pictures somewhere but I forgot which thread. Foryounger trees, this often means we only get one long flowering cycle and only one vegetative flush, Ive experienced 0 growth flushes in a year for several trees, instead, it flowered again after a rest period.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on March 17, 2017, 10:18:50 PM
I am book marking this tread!
Thanks a lot Simon...and happy to see you active again in this forum!  ;D
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on March 17, 2017, 10:43:40 PM
This is a worthy thread for anyone to bookmark especially SoCal mango growers. Thank you for the thread Simon!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: rliou on March 18, 2017, 12:26:00 AM
Thanks simon for the great thread.  One thing to consider in southern california for mangos are rootstocks.  Some varieties grow ok on terpentine (VP, LZ and alphonso) but for other varieties it can yeild slow growth.  JF and simon have been experimenting with rootstocks.  We do notice that while on manilla the growth seems to be faster.  I am conducting an experiment on two julie trees.  One is on double rootstock (terpentine plus manilla) the other just turpentine.  I am puttingnthem at dame location next to each other to see if growth rate is indeed difference.  It is also conceivable that some of the faster growth could be related to actually having a tap root on manilla trees. Florida turpentine trees tend to not have tap roots
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 12:59:10 PM
Thanks guys, it's good to be back. I will talk about rootstocks briefly but because Lavern Manilla is widely available here and it has been successful for so many of us here, I will simply recommend this rootstock as the number one choice for growers here. Rootstocks will be mentioned as part of the discussions on Temperature, diseases and pH.

The rliou, the more people experimenting and documenting, the better. I have a lot of new insight that I'll share in this thread that will hopefully allow us to grow more and better quality mangos here in SoCal.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 01:51:08 PM
Because weather has such a big influence on the growth of Mango trees here, we need to stop our current practice of picking out that little mango tree in full bloom or holding small fruit. I highly recommend using Lavern Manilla seedlings available at most Home Depot's and other garden centers as the number one choice when it comes to rootstocks for growing mango in SoCal. If you're trying to save money or plan on doing a lot of your own grafting, you will need a lot more starting material and I recommend planting lots of polyembryonic and Monoembryonic seeds from store bought mangos that you eat.

With Manilla or random seedlings as rootstock, plant the seed or seedlings in its permanent location in the warmest area of your yard. It is a good idea to plant in native soil that is loosened to a depth of at least 12-18 inches if possible. Deeper is better to some extent but in many yards across California, you will hit an extremely hard layer of rocks and clay just several inches below the topsoil.

It is extremely important that you do not over amend the planting hole with too much organic material as this will decompose over time and your tree will sink. Even when planting in 100% native soil that is loosened, I recommend planting the tree above grade. Because the soil was loosened, it will compact and the tree will drop over the years. This issue can be exacerbated by over amending with organics. If you backfilled the hole with 30% organic matter, plan on the tree dropping 30% plus additional drop from loosening native soil.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 18, 2017, 02:41:49 PM
The planting hole should be square and not round. Amendments can be added on top of the soil and I highly recommend mulching the rhizosphere or drip zone. Im not going into detail in regards to planting, fertilizing or mulching, each of these subjects can take up a whole thread and many of these have in fact been discussed in previous threads so if you're looking for more information, try the search function above. I will provide links to threads of great significance where needed and I will include links to scholarly articles and research where pertinent.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 19, 2017, 01:17:07 PM
When you plant your tree, it is very important to know the pH of your soil. You can send samples out for analysis but this may be too much trouble for the new mango grower. Instead, I recommend purchasing a simple pH test kit for soils or asking your local nursery if they can test or recommend a test kit to find out the pH of your soil. I've tested the pH of the soil and water at several locations all around San Diego and the majority of samples for soil and water were above 7.8.

Mangos grow well in the pH range of about 5.5-7.5. Outside of this range, it becomes difficult for the plant to uptake certain nutrients. Here in SoCal, we mostly have to worry about the pH of our soils being too high. Even if we brought down the pH of our soils with the use of Sulfur, Phosphoric acid/water drenches, the pH will generally drift back up and out of the acceptable range due in large part to a the buffering capacity of the soil itself and the pH raising affects of our local tapwater.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 20, 2017, 09:53:55 PM
Once you have your tree planted, keep it watered but don't over do it. When a tree is first planted, it will need more frequent watering as the roots have not established yet but keep in mind that Mangos are regarded as drought tolerant and when the rootzone is kept constantly moist, there is little physiological need for the plant to send its roots out farther in search of more resources. I would hazard to guess that more rookie Mango growers have killed their mango trees from over watering rather than under watering. Over watering can decrease oxygen levels, promoting anaerobic conditions which can lead to root rot.

I want to re emphasize here that you should be planting seedlings that are not grafted. This means that you will either need to learn to graft or know someone that can do the grafting for you. This may seem like a lot of trouble to go through but if you want a healthy, large and productive tree, I highly recommend this route if you are looking for something other than Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few other varieties that seem to perform ok on Florida/Turpentine rootstock.

If you do plant a pre grafted Florida/Turpentine rootstock tree, you will get annual blooms which will significantly slow down the overall growth of your tree. I also want to point out that not all Turpentine rootstock are bad performers here in SoCal. Leo Manuel has planted Turpentine seeds and used them with success.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 06, 2017, 12:30:14 PM
For those of us that have grafted seedling trees or have purchased pre grafted trees, I often get the question of when do I prune off the blooms or flowers? I used to recommend that you prune off the panicles when the flowers or fruit are pea to marble size but I was wrong. It gets a lot more technical and the flowering article I linked to at the top of this thread explains the science in detail. In simple terms, you should prune off the panicles when the (average)temperatures are above about 65-66F. At around 63F, you will get partial blooms and at 59F, you will get full blooms.

If you read the article however, you will find out that temperature is not the only factor. The age of the current flush and other factors such as drought stress influence the amount of florigenic hormones that may tip the balance towards flowering or a vegetative flush. Other information I have read indicates that increased nitrogen levels in the leaves may tilt the balance more towards a vegetative flush but highly unscientific experiments performed by me and several other SoCal mango growers indicate that cold temperatures is a much stronger promoter of flowering and increasing Nitrogen levels in the leaves by foliar feeding with multiple applications of high Nitrogen fertilizer in Winter and Spring has negligible affect on swinging the balance towards a vegetative flush.

I must admit that that our attempts at foliar feeding with Nitrogen on hardened growth in cool weather was more than likely a futile attempt but we were desperate. For those that aren't aware, foliar feeding is much more productive in active states of growth when new growth is in the expansion phase. Please see this thread for more info on foliar feeding. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=241.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=241.0)

For a visual of how temperature affects flowering, please see page 23 of 29 from this article.  http://download937.mediafire.com/9gfg1c9as1ig/6ikqa9b0uxoz4el/Breakoutyonemoto.pdf (http://download937.mediafire.com/9gfg1c9as1ig/6ikqa9b0uxoz4el/Breakoutyonemoto.pdf)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 06, 2017, 01:03:12 PM
that was my conclusion too Simon. I want to wait until we are at night temps over 65, by that time, blooms are over and fruitlets are formed. Safely remove pennicles then. Otherwise you risk 2nd bloom and even 3rd and kill the graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Eirlis on April 06, 2017, 04:15:25 PM
Question - I have an in ground 3 year old LZ on turpentine rootstock that was damaged by my gardener's weed whacker and is now struggling. If I plant a manila seedling next to it and try an inarch graft, do you think it could recover? Or should I just start over entirely by grafting scions onto a LaVerne manila rootstock?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 06, 2017, 05:07:04 PM
I would suggest starting a new tree.  The Turpentine rootstock tree probably has mature brown wood that is more difficult to graft. Also, the Turpentine rootstock has so many issues that I prefer to start new and use the Turpentine tree for scions only.

When you plant the Manilla seedling, do not graft it. Let it mature until it is fully established and fruiting size before topworking it with the LZ.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 07, 2017, 06:08:01 PM
I recommend using LaVern Manilla seedlings as rootstocks because they are easily found and relatively uniform in regards to their performance around SoCal. We also have the option of using random seedlings as well and the benefit here is that you save a lot of money but you risk getting a sloweror faster growing tree compared to Lavern Manilla. The huge trees in Leo Manuels yard is proof that random seedlings do perform well here but some varieties may be more or less prone to diseases.

Here are some pictures of some seedlings that were direct seeded into the ground. Unfortunately, I was not even considering the ramifications of grafting such young seedlings with mature scionwood. This Venus grafted onto Kent seedling is in full bloom and is wasting its energy on this senseless flowering.

(https://s23.postimg.cc/j6ookil9z/IMG_1806.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/j6ookil9z/)
Here is a CAC/COC grafted onto another Kent seedling but this variety is currently not blooming even though it is only several inches away from the Venus and gets the same fertilizer, water and experiences the same weather. There are definitely scion/rootstock interactions at work here and probably the stage and maturity of the scion( before it was removed) has some influence on it vegging out.

(https://s28.postimg.cc/68vkn2h95/IMG_1805.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/68vkn2h95/)

For those planting random mango seeds into the ground, do not graft the tree with mature scions until it is fully established and at the size where it can actually bear fruit. These trees that I grafted too early will be stunted with annual blooms until it reaches the size that I should have grafted them at. I just want others to learn from my mistakes.

The blooms on my Venus have been on the tree for several months now, mango blooms on young trees take many months to form and removing them early will only trigger another bloom as I explained above. Even though the CAC/COC is not blooming now, it will very likely bloom this Winter and every year there after.

Because the bloom cycle takes so long, young seedlings will likely only get one or two growth flushes and because it expended much energy on blooms, the vegetative flushes will not be as strong.

A seedling that was not grafted will simply stall and swell buds in Winter and have a strong vegetative flush as soon as the weather warms. A seedling that was not grafted will likely have 2-3 vegetative flushes or more if fertilized properly.

With each set of new leaves a seedling veges out, it will increase the total surface area for photosynthesis. This extra amount of surface area for gathering energy needs to be multiplied by each day it receives sunlight and hopefully you can see that soon there will be a drastic difference in growth rate between the grafted and nongrafted seedling.

In essence, the grafted seedling will be growing at a linear rate where as the non grafted seedling should grow at more of a logorithmic rate.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ScottR on April 07, 2017, 10:55:06 PM
Wow, nice thread Simon,I haven't read all yet but what i have read is very useful information for Cal. growers ;) 8)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 09, 2017, 04:16:48 PM
Thanks Scott, hopefully it will help people grow healthier more productive trees here.

Now that the temperatures are warming up, our plants and soil microbes will start showing activity again and this is a good time to re acidity the soil if you haven't already done so. For long term lowering of the pay of your soil, I recommend elemental Sulfur but this has a very slow pH lowering effect. In the meantime, you can use Iron Sulphate which is faster acting or you can also drench with water that has been pHed to 6-6.5.

I don't recommend using Aluminum sulfate due to the accumulation of Aluminum to toxic levels.

You really do need a soil test to determine the actual pH of your soil before you try to acidify but yellowing leaves are a good indication that your pH is drifting up.

For an organic way of decreasing pH, I recommend using cottonseed meal as it is acidic and will also provide nutrients to your plants. If using cottonseed meal, I recommend gently working it into the top of your soil so that the cottonseed meal won't clump together and get moldy when it gets wet.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 18, 2017, 07:16:41 PM
For those Mango growers that don't want to plant seedling( not grafted with mature scions) trees and grow them to maturity before topworking, I have come up with a slightly less involved technique that has not been tested but should work in theory.

Again, to be safe, my number one recommendation is to plant Lavern Manilla Seedlings and plant them into the ground ungrafted. But, if you want to experiment or save a little money by planting random mango seeds, this technique may work and is much less labor intensive than top working a mature tree.

For this new technique that I recently came up with, you will need a seedling from a Polyembryonic variety that has a unique smell to the sap when you injure a leaf such as Lemon Zest or Sweet Tart. Plant your seedling into the ground or in a pot and take care of it like you normally would. You will need more than one sprout coming up from the seed and it's safer if you inspect the seed to make sure each seedling is coming up from a different segment of the seed. Because of this, it may be easier to sprout the seed in a clear plastic ziplock bag with a slightly moist paper towel to ensure you get at least two seedlings coming up from different segments of the seed.

You need at least two seedlings because there is a chance that one of the seedlings is zygotic. Grow up the seedlings until they are large enough to remove a scion or two. When the seedlings are large enough, break off a leaf and crush it in your hands. The sap from the clone should smell like the sap from the original actual parent Lemon Zest or Sweetheart, assuming you have these varieties and you know what the actual varieties sap smells like.

Once you find out which seedling is the clone, use its scion to graft onto your seedling or Lavern Manilla rootstock. By grafting seedling scions onto seedling rootstocks, the scion should not flower in its first winter but you will get the benefit of having a grafted tree with a named cultivar(sort of, because it's a clone seedling).

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 26, 2017, 12:11:32 PM
I'm just trying to compile all pertinent information into this thread and I'm lazy so I am copying a reply I posted on another thread. This reply has some info on why I feel Sweet Tart could potentially be a good rootstock for us to use in SoCal where I Strongly recommend planting seedlings that are not grafted and letting them reach fruiting size before allowing them to fruit or topworking them one they have established scaffold branches. Here's my previous reply:

Mono seeds will not grow true to seed whereas Polyembryonic seeds should have one zygotic seedling produced from selfing or from cross pollination and the rest of the seedlings should in theory be clones of the parent. This is basically the same as nucellar seedlings in Citrus.

Polyembryonic seedlings are especially important, in my personal opinion, because they are seedlings and lack the florigenic hormones that cause young, 1 foot grafted trees to flower in cold climates like mine.

Polyembryonic varieties are especially important to mango breeders as use for rootstocks because of their predictable behavior.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0)

Thanks to Bsbullie for mentioning it in another thread, I never considered using the smell of the sap of crushed leaves(Zills technique) to determine the potential quality of seedlings. I used this technique and hypothesized that one can combine this technique with what we know about polyembrony in order to use the sap smell as a built in genetic marker, similar to how a researcher would insert the green flourescent protein as a marker that is clearly visible and identifiable. In our case, we would use our sense of smell to detect the clone but this only works for polyembryonic varieties most notably from the newer Zill selections that have a strong unmistakable sap smell such as Sweet Tart and Lemon Zest among others.

I confuse myself sometimes so what I'm trying to say is that we are lucky to have these strong sap smelling polyembryonic mango varieties like Sweet Tart because they have a built in clone indicator, the smell of their sap.

This year, I have plans to plant out many Sweet Tart seeds to test it as an alternative rootstock to Lavern Manilla for those trying to grow mango in colder marginal climates such as in SoCal. The Lavern Manilla grows great here but the fruit is horrible and not everyone knows how to graft. Additionally, the Lavern Manilla rootstock IS Polyembryonic but there are no Phenotypic markers allowing the nursery worker or tree purchaser to know with confidence that the tree is actually a clone. Without knowing that you have a clone, the predictability about the growth and fruiting behavior of that tree goes out the window.

I like Lemon Zest more than Sweet Tart but LZ has horrible issues with Powdery Mildew on specific rootstocks. The information I've found for Sweet Tart so far have indicated that it could be an excellent rootstock for marginal climates because of the following:
1) Vigor- its large size and fast growth will enable it to establish and reach fruiting size faster. In my area, mangos seem to grow at about 1/2 to 1/4 the rate compared to South Florida.
2) Polyembryonic- it has a built in Phenotypic marker that allows us to select the clone with confidence. Once the growth and fruiting attributes have been observed and documented, we will have a reliable tree with excellent tasting fruits that grows and fruits with predictability. Observations need to be made on seedling Sweet Tart trees and not ones that are already grafted onto other various rootstocks.
3) Disease resistance- observations made from trees grafted onto Florida rootstock as well as various other rootstocks including Lavern Manilla indicate that this variety is quite Disease resistant. I have not observed any issues with it regarding Anthracnose nor Powdery Mildew.
4) Production- this variety is one of the most productive varieties I have seen. Even small trees will set fruit and try to hold them to maturity. This is actually an issue for people growing mango in colder climates where I am recommending that we grow our trees to maturity( fruiting size) before allowing it to flower and fruit but this is a moot point because I am recommending that we grow seedlings which are not grafted and will thus likely not fruit until it reaches physical maturity.
5) Taste- recent taste evaluations at local mango tastings has ranked this variety at or near the top of polls.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on May 26, 2017, 07:14:08 PM
Quick question- what do you recommend if we already planted the grafted mangoes from Florida (on turpentine) in the ground.  They were planted this season and last season in early spring.  Varieties are LZ, cotton candy, Phoenix, fruit punch, mallika, PPK, ice cream.  We definitely noticed the propensity of these plants to flower.  Most flowered vigorously.  Last year we made the mistake of cutting of the flowering stalks and they flowered again.  This year, we left them on and are painstakingly removing the pea sized fruit one by one. The plants seem to be putting on vegetative growth, albeit slowly.  Will this continue?  If we are are okay with slow growth, can we keep the trees as They are?  Or should we buy manilla rootstocks and graft them all to make sure that we don't lose the trees altogether?  Then, keep those for scions in pots and do what you recommend starting with planted manilla rootstocks?

Thanks in advance for your mango tree growing wisdom!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 26, 2017, 09:24:35 PM
If you already have the grafted trees, I would recommend treating them as you have been, taking care of them as best as you could. Some varieties do just fine on Florida rootstock and we don't know which of the new varieties does or doesn't do well on that rootstock yet. You may need to stake up the branches as they get droopy but you might as well work with what you have unless your goal is to grow large trees. I feel that if you are careful to monitor the pH of your soil and water, mulch your trees heavily and foliar with micronutrients, you can have Florida grafted trees growing well.

Fruit4me has many Florida grafted trees that are performing well although he is the only one I know of that has such a large collection of Florida grafted trees doing so well. His thick layer of mulch or his particular microclimate may have something to do with his success. Everyone else I contacted has trees in decline or their trees have already died. Some varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few others grows fairly well on Florida rootstock.

I would just recommend that you plant seeds/seedlings/Lavern Manilla seedlings/ and especially Sweet Tart seeds in close proximity to the Florida trees in case the trees die. If they do die, you will already have a backup seedling that is potentially ready for grafting.

Growing mangos and gardening in general should be thought of as a dynamic process that is constantly changing and evolving. The gardener should have an open mind so that you are able to adapt to changes you observe in your trees. By having backups, you can be ready to save any particular variety if you notice parts of your tree dieing back.

Simply buying Manilla rootstock and grafting them will cause them to flower within a year or two although this may be your best option if you have a variety in decline and have no other rootstocks available. It's better to plant Manilla or whatever other seedlings and not graft them until they reach fruiting size.

I keep saying fruiting size and not giving specific dimensions or heights because each grower will have a different idea of what that ideal fruiting size is for them. One person may want a smaller tree and allowing it to fruit at a smaller size will take away some of that vigor and help to keep the tree small. Others may want hundreds of fruit in which case they should allow the trees to grow out very large before top working the main scaffold branches.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on May 26, 2017, 10:01:33 PM
Very well said, Simon. I am letting my Manilla and Kent seedlings grow and develop in the ground and then I will graft top cultivars onto them. Our conditions here in So. Cal is quite different from Florida. Thanks for the advice and input from your learning experience as it is much appreciated.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CGameProgrammer on May 27, 2017, 01:46:08 AM
My (alleged) Lemon Zest from Florida, which I bought about six months ago and is in the ground, has already set a couple dozen fruit but it is also growing new leaves from the base of those panicles, so it's not doing what some others report where trees fruit themselves to death. So it seems like a great performer.

My Coconut Cream, purchased at the same time from the same place (Plant O' Gram), flowered but did not set fruit and I haven't yet noticed any new leaves either, although I last checked a week ago.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2017, 02:34:03 AM
My Florida grafted Lemon Zest is holding fruit and starting a new growth flush as well although I have to stake it up and it has major cracks in the trunk. Hopefully the fruit will be full sized instead of the nubbins I got last year. The panicles were heavily infected with Powdery Mildew and I plan on using baking soda to inhibit this fungus next year. Hopefully this works but I intend to re apply the baking soda mixture every once in a while, especially after a rain, in order to maintain a higher pH to make conditions hostile to sprouting spores.

I'm experiencing dieback on multiple branches on my LZ on Florida rootstock although one of my experimental Double Stone Grafted trees has died back even more severely and was on the brink of death before I sprayed it with Abound. It has since started bouncing back but I may pull it soon because my Sweet Tart on DSG is growing amazing without symptoms of Phomopsis. I'm starting to see why Mango breeders prefer Polyembryonic rootstock- because you can predict resistance, or lack there of, to diseases.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on June 07, 2017, 03:39:53 AM
For those of us that have grafted seedling trees or have purchased pre grafted trees, I often get the question of when do I prune off the blooms or flowers? I used to recommend that you prune off the panicles when the flowers or fruit are pea to marble size but I was wrong. It gets a lot more technical and the flowering article I linked to at the top of this thread explains the science in detail. In simple terms, you should prune off the panicles when the (average)temperatures are above about 65-66F. At around 63F, you will get partial blooms and at 59F, you will get full blooms.

Simon


Looking 10 days ahead according to Weather.com, my average daily temp has now reached at or above 66F; so, should I go ahead and cutoff this one pannicle holding 2 fruits that size? Its on Laverne's Manila, about 9 ft tall, first year bloom with 2 years Maha scion (thanks Warren).  The only other panicle on the tree has 1 fruit -same size- .
Thanks for your advice Simon!

Here's the photo as of June 2, 2017:
(http://i.imgur.com/KGVOdZCl.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on June 07, 2017, 04:45:09 AM
Why do you want to cut them off? according to what you stated, your tree seems to have decent size (9 ft), and the fruitlets are fairly big by now i think. you may want to post a picture of the whole tree and wait for more experienced members to give you their opinion
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 07, 2017, 08:32:39 AM
Sam, those are pretty good sized fruit already and based off your information, I would just let them grow and ripen. A 9 foot tree is considered pretty good sized and the Manilla rootstock should do well for you. It's still really cold where I'm at and my mangos are tiny, only about marble sized although I removed the initial fruit set a while back at the risk of re blooming. Most the trees where I removed the initial blooms have now re bloomed. I wanted to go against my own advice just to make sure.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on June 07, 2017, 01:08:07 PM
Ok, I'll let them grow and ripen; thanks for your advice and explanation Simon and Shinzo!
These will be my first own grown mangos for me, if they can hold till maturity, and if I can protect them from the squirrels...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 07, 2017, 07:28:09 PM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 07, 2017, 07:32:39 PM
Hana321,
How many years were your trees in the ground before they started producing (and you let the fruit mature)?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 07, 2017, 07:53:04 PM
Both of those trees productive in the second year after i planted them. The yield is different every year. Last year, the unknown had so much fruit on it, it bent the tree down. This year, the unknown only produced a very small batch of 6-8 mangoes. The Carrie traditionally has held a small number of fruit. The tree is a dwarf, and it has decided to take a horizontal growth habit, and It stands about 3 feet tall.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 07, 2017, 08:22:26 PM
i am from San Diego originally and am now in Florida in the Mango tree industry and this a 2 cents you may want to evaluate. Chris Rollins told me about issues with mulching in winter, you guys are really dry in summer and need mulch to keep in water but in winter mulched trees get more cold damage due to mulch insulating them from the heat escaping the ground at night and the ground warming during the day. In FL non mulched trees fair better on cold nights than mulched trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 10:15:55 AM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 08, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!

Simon

I found a list of cold hardy mangoes that are grown in Egypt. Most Egyptian mangoes are grown in Al Ismailia which has similar climate to Socal. Do you want me to translate that list to English ?.

Al Ismailia climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailia#Climate
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 11:21:33 AM
Yeah sure, that would be great but I'm not a big believer in cold Hardy mangos. The research I've done over the last several years has shown that cold tolerance was mostly a factor of the size of the tree with older, larger trees being more resistant to cold weather.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 11:30:21 AM
In regards to growing Mango and other tropical/subtropical fruit trees in SoCal, a member here pointed me towards a few articles that has great explanations on why the old way of planting our fruit trees was flawed.

These articles from Laguna Hills Nursery are excellent and have great explanations.
http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/SOIL-INFO.html (http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/SOIL-INFO.html)
http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/PLANT-INFO.html (http://www.lagunahillsnursery.com/PLANT-INFO.html)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 08, 2017, 06:08:36 PM
Yeah sure, that would be great but I'm not a big believer in cold Hardy mangos. The research I've done over the last several years has shown that cold tolerance was mostly a factor of the size of the tree with older, larger trees being more resistant to cold weather.

Simon


According to the Egyptian lecture, cultivars with Long and thick leaves have a better chance to withstand cold weather than mangoes with small and thin leaves.

here is some of the cultivars that can handle cold (better than other cultivars that are grown in Egypt).

Zebda - timour - mahmoudi - bayeri - Ox heart - Cobbanih - Ewais - Mesk - Langra - Fajri kalan - Wahli Basha

Quote
تقسيم الأشجار من حيث درجة احتمالها للبرد :

     1- أشجار قوية الاحتمال :

     زبدة - تيمور - محمودى - بايرى - قلب الثور - كوبانية - عويس - مسك - لانجرابنارس - فجرى كلان - والى باشا .


more info here (use google translator)
http://www.vercon.sci.eg/indexUI/uploaded/Mangoproduction/mangoproduction.htm (http://www.vercon.sci.eg/indexUI/uploaded/Mangoproduction/mangoproduction.htm)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 06:32:22 PM
Thanks evilfruit!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 08, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
Sharkman, thanks for the information! I recall hearing or reading about this somewhere else. I guess the mulch is such a good insulator that it blocks the suns rays from hitting the soil and warming it in the daytime. The best practice would probably be to rake away the leaves in the morning so that the sun can warm the soil and then rake back the mulch at night to hold in the heat. I believe this will probably be too much work for most gardeners so if one has to pick whether or not to use mulch, I would still recommend mulching.

I guess if one were growing in the coldest marginal areas for mango, it would be best practice to clear the mulch on mornings where extreme cold is anticipated that night or the following morning as long as they remember to rake back the insulating mulch that evening. Thanks again for that useful information!



Simon


You don't want to rake it back because it will only hold the heat in for the roots, you need it to release the heat so it will create a mico climate as the heat rises around the tree. Only keeping the roots warm will not help the main body of the plant when it is very cold.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 08, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
Won't raking the leaves back at dusk lock in the heat captured during the day and slowly release the heat as the temperature gets lower.

Someone on this forum posted how Citrus growers actually overhead water during freezing spells and this creates a protective layer of ice which prevents damage to the interior of the canopy.

In reality, I think most of us growing mango in marginal climates will use mulch and just leave it there at the risk of holding in the heat at night and blocking heat in the day. Sounds like it would be best practice to clear the mulch in Winter but that's also when I hibernate.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 09, 2017, 12:02:44 AM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jose Spain on June 09, 2017, 08:17:14 AM
Hi everybody,

I've been reading you all for a few weeks now, and this is my first post in this forum. This topic is specially interesting for me -thank you Simon and rest of members sharing so useful info- since I live in southern Spain, in the coast of Mediterranean Sea and climatic and soil conditions are pretty similar to those of SoCa. In my particular case I do not have trouble with cold since absolute minims here almost never go below 4ļC (39ļF) but I do have the same problems as you with high pH and extremely dry summers. Here it stops raining in June and keeps like this at least until September, but lately I'm noticing that the dry season is getting longer, starting in May the last years.

Regarding rootstocks as you all probably know by other members from my country, the most popular here is Gomera 3, with a good resistance to limestone soils and cold temperatures, and very high resistance to Pseudomonas. Another one with even greater resistance to very high pHs is 13/1 from Israel, available here just in one place as far as I know. This one is a good choice when pH and space are a problem, because is little vigorous.

I found very interesting the advice to let the trees grow until they get the size enough to bear fruit. I gonna have the trouble described in this topic since my 3 mangos are all drafted in the traditional way. One of them, a Sensation, I'm thinking now of removing the scion and let the Gomera 3 of the rootstock grow free. The other two (a Keitt and a NDM 4) I'll probably let them be and see what happens. For the other varieties I wanted to plant (LZ, ST, CC, Maha, PPK) I'm thinking after reading this topic that the most practical way to go could be to look for seeds instead of scions. Seeds should resist better the shipping process and I just would have to select the clon seedling in order to graft it in a Gomera 3 or a 13-1.

Thanks everybody for sharing so useful info!

Jose
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on June 09, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
"Some varieties like Sweet Tart, Valencia Pride, Alphonso and a few others grows fairly well on Florida rootstock. "

Add to Simon's list, I found Edward also is doing great with Florida rootstock in Socal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:02:36 PM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
No, my two trees that i have had here in The ground are about 5-6 years old now. The 3 foot tree is a natural dwarf, and it chosen a low growth habit. The other tree s much larger, about ten feet now. I have also seen other mango trees in the neighborhood. Some specimens quite large, and much more developed than my trees. I generally like to trust what i see, and can personally experience. I have had failures here with plants, but never with mangos.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:18:24 PM
We also have Keitt mango groves in Thermal. And it has been known to freeze in Thermal.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 09, 2017, 07:44:09 PM
Can you give some details on your irrigation practices for your mangos, and also the irrigation practices of the commercial groves out by you if you know them?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 09, 2017, 07:55:44 PM
I am not familiar with the irrigation practices of the commercial growers in Thermal. As for where i am at, we are a little warmer than Thermal, and it has never frosted here in the 8 years i have been in this location. It has gotten into the low 30's. I don't give the trees any special treatment to the trees. I do run sprinklers for about a minute at night before it gets cool at night, but the trees are not mulched or covered at all. I also have Plumeria trees in the same area as the mango trees and they are not given special protection either.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 10, 2017, 09:49:36 AM
I have found that mangos do exceptionally well in so cal. I have been able to grow and produce fruit every year consistantly.i have a Carrie mango, and and unknown fiber free variety in the ground. I also have a Coconut Cream, Ice Cream, Irwin, and Cotton Candy mango ready for ground planting next year. I have fouund mangos to be exceptional, reliable trees in this climate. Very hardy.

let me get this straight....so you concluded from your 2 year old 3' Carrie that mangos in socal do exceptionally well and are very reliable?
No, my two trees that i have had here in The ground are about 5-6 years old now. The 3 foot tree is a natural dwarf, and it chosen a low growth habit. The other tree s much larger, about ten feet now. I have also seen other mango trees in the neighborhood. Some specimens quite large, and much more developed than my trees. I generally like to trust what i see, and can personally experience. I have had failures here with plants, but never with mangos.

Have you meet Gary a senior member of his forum? He lives in Palm Springs  and his accounts are quite different than yours so all of us know that  growing mangos in SoCal as easy as you make it out be. He has survey his area for mango trees and has seen no more than a handful of mature seedling trees. Mango seedling seems to do well in SoCal grafted trees are another story they take a long time to get establish .... I trust senior members of this forum and their research.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
I do not know Gary. I will say that Palm Springs is a different beast entirely. They have horrific winds which are very damaging to trees. They make it very hard for trees to keep their flowers. All of trees are grafts. I dont have any seedlings. If i did live in Palm Springs, mangoes would be very difficult to grow im sure, but then again so would most everything else. My experience has been mangoes are very resilient to the heat, and they can take a dair amount of cold. I know what i know, no one has to believe me.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 10, 2017, 10:43:17 AM
I believe you ;)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 11:38:13 AM

(https://s9.postimg.cc/wg4xwzwij/1497108846424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wg4xwzwij/)
Mature mango trees in so cal.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/ozwgdxuh1/1497108956783.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ozwgdxuh1/)

(https://s3.postimg.cc/800xxyhpb/1497109025886.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/800xxyhpb/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 10, 2017, 01:04:30 PM
Those are very nice young trees but far From being mature
We appreciate your experience but growing and fruiting mangos in SoCal is doable but not easy like iin south Florida. Use the forum search you might learn something

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20139.msg248968#msg248968 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20139.msg248968#msg248968)

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ec41f3e9f458cb3da79449b77dc4cc4e&topic=2992. (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ec41f3e9f458cb3da79449b77dc4cc4e&topic=2992.)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.msg25169#msg25169 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.msg25169#msg25169)







Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 01:16:37 PM
My trees are young still. I have a neighbor that has a really mature tree heavily loaded. If i can get a pic. I will post it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 01:31:30 PM
I will check out the link
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 10, 2017, 07:38:04 PM

(https://s10.postimg.cc/y66a8ap9x/1497137724374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y66a8ap9x/)
Neighbor's much older tree
(https://s10.postimg.cc/7bg6ktht1/1497137776023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7bg6ktht1/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 10, 2017, 09:30:05 PM
I put in 5 trees last fall.  They all made it through winter and are just now starting to flush.  But a few of them just keep blooming over and over.  One of them which was very small set about 30 fruits.  I plucked them all off.  But the trees keep blooming.  Anything I can do to make them do vegetative flushes?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 01:42:38 AM

(https://s10.postimg.cc/y66a8ap9x/1497137724374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/y66a8ap9x/)
Neighbor's much older tree
(https://s10.postimg.cc/7bg6ktht1/1497137776023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7bg6ktht1/)
Hana, beautiful tree your neighbor has, it looks like a seedling tree which seems to grow much better than grafted trees.

Spaugh, there's not much we can do besides building a greenhouse or some other means of keeping them warm in order to inhibit flowering. There are probably hormones or chemicals that can swing the balance towards a vegetative flush but I can't recall any at the moment.

If you take care of your trees and let them establish a bit before fruiting, you can still have a productive tree although it may need staking and it may take a while for it to gain some real size.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 11, 2017, 02:11:24 AM
I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 08:30:19 AM
Sometimes you just get lucky. I recently removed some blooms from my trees and most my trees are re blooming. Wether or not they bloom again is based on a large part to the weather. If average temps are below about 60F, there is a strong chance the next push is floral. I removed many small mangos that were about marble sized and my tree is re blooming.

I linked an article on blooming in the first page of this thread.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 11, 2017, 09:51:30 AM
Simon, interesting, It seems that 3 centimeters is an appropriate size cutting off the mangoes to trick them. I used a ruler and measured them at 3 cm before cutting them. Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on June 11, 2017, 12:40:19 PM
here is my Edward, Edgar, Gary, Parson,Providence, Jegenghir and Duncan they are loaded with fruits inside outside the canopy the only problem is that they don't have enough room to spreed their wings.




(https://s1.postimg.cc/l5pfrohe3/IMG_8800.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l5pfrohe3/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/f27v7rr4b/IMG_8801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/f27v7rr4b/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/46ghcf66j/IMG_8802.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/46ghcf66j/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/cpzva6eiz/IMG_8803.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cpzva6eiz/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/xvto4rpcb/IMG_8804.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/xvto4rpcb/)

In front there is Calostro with ten grafts of his own.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/uz6n4hjij/IMG_8799.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uz6n4hjij/)


and Hayse on the east side
(https://s10.postimg.cc/42lgw351h/IMG_8805.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/42lgw351h/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 11, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
Beautiful trees jf
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 11, 2017, 02:10:29 PM
In florida if you give mangoes to much nitrogen they will often push leaves and not flower. You could try giving them higher nitrogen
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 03:26:13 PM
Me and a couple other members applied high Nitrogen fertilizers to the ground and via foliar and the mango trees still bloomed.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 04:21:19 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on June 11, 2017, 04:40:52 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Hana321 on June 11, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?


Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.
The two grounded mango trees i have are in my lawn area, so they are irrigated year round by the sprinklers. I usually run the sprinklers 5-6 minutes 3x per day, 7 days a week during the hot time of the year. July and August temps are commonl in the one hundred teens. The smaller tree, my dwarf, is on a slight slope, so i typically take the hose out there, and give that tree a bit of extra water. Other than that, my trees are not given any special treatments. My trees typically explode in blooms starting in like February. Typically, the trees lose 95 percent of the flowers. I read somewhere that the mango tree will only keep what it can afford to grow. We also have some pretty good winds in the spring which typically kill off more of the flowers also. Mangoes love warm weather, so any place that does not get good warm summers, and mild winters will find mangoes challenging. Also, areas like Palm Springs where high winds are frequent may also find mangoes challenging. But in reality, i dont really believe that mango trees are as difficult as some tropical/subtropical plants.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 06:42:12 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.

My neighbor who is over on the north side of the hill here has 3 or 4 mature mango trees.  They gave us a mango pie several months ago.  They have quite an impressive fruit orchard over there.  So I know my trees should make it, just need to be patient like you said.  Good things come to those who wait.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sharkman on June 11, 2017, 06:54:50 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food.

The "P", middle one, is to high if you don't want blooms. Try something like 10-0-9 or anything high in "N" and low in "P"
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2017, 07:08:24 PM
Hana, I was wondering about your summer irrigation. What's that like?

Spaugh, My young Keitt also keeps blooming and not flushing vegetatively. I stripped the fruitset. I have never fertilized the tree in any way.

Guys, I think growing mangos in southern California is easier than we think; we're just prone to over-thinking it. That's why we participate in this discussion. I know of many mature mangos throughout our region grown by people who don't give their trees great attention. I'm starting to think that the key element is patience.


Many of the Grafted mango trees available are on a rootstock that does not perform very well here. Seedling mangos are relatively easy to grow, especially if they were directly planted into the ground. Because many new mango growers are unaware of Grafted named varieties, they plant seeds from fruit they ate. The seedlings grow well because they are not grafted and will not go through the rigors and energy drain of flowering at a young age. Instead, all the energy is utilized in spreading out its roots and shoots, enabling it to get established faster than a grafted tree.

This is why I am promoting the planting of seedlings, especially those from polyembryonic varieties because these polyembryonic seedlings should produce similar quality fruit if the clone is selected for per my instructions above utilizing the smell of the crushed leaves.

The Margot Mango I posted about is just one such example.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 11, 2017, 07:43:53 PM
Im putting GRO POWER AVO/CITRUS 8-6-8 on my avocados and cherimoyas.  I will give a small dose to the mangos too and see if they will flush now with the summer heat and some food.

The "P", middle one, is to high if you don't want blooms. Try something like 10-0-9 or anything high in "N" and low in "P"

Ok, I will hit it will some disolved 21-0-20 amonium sulfate + SUL PO MAG

The soil and water are alkaline and need some PH down anyway.  I wont get too carried away with fertilizers but surely they can use a small dose. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 15, 2017, 07:05:17 PM
Here is a picture of a mango tree (flowering) in Wakan Village in Oman. Wakan village is located  at about 2000m above the sea level near Jabel Al akdar (green mountain).

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-As5s9KJxMbA/WIzjjyNXpNI/AAAAAAAABzo/AZIRXYSmO0cuCJUaJQs8vd5I9QsL3eXPACLcB/s1600/IMG_2169.JPG)

Peach tree from the same place

(https://s3.postimg.cc/imzj912mn/IMG_20170127_090858.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/imzj912mn/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 16, 2017, 11:32:43 AM
Evilfruit, thanks for the picture of the Mango tree. Is that a seedling? It's even cooler because there's also peaches growing in the same area. I hope the fruit from that tree is tasty.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 16, 2017, 12:10:28 PM
Hey, I learned from the Laguna Hills Nursery Owner that he paints his mango trees like an avocado. Maybe the reason why turpentine rootstocked mangoes have extreme dieback is that as the leaves droop and die, it exposes the tree branches and bark to sun, cooking it alive. Starting to think mangoes are extremely like avocado trees
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 16, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Mango trees on Florida rootstocks do droop and expose some branches to the burning sun but the die back is caused by Phomopsis and other issues. Die back often occurs on branches that have no sun burn and a friend sent in sample from trees with die back and it came back as Phomopsis. Thanks again for the links to Laguna Hills Nursery Annonamangolord, much of the information they posted is spot on with the latest methods recommended for backyard horticulture.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on June 16, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
Good to know, thanks and no problem
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: EvilFruit on June 17, 2017, 08:19:29 AM
Evilfruit, thanks for the picture of the Mango tree. Is that a seedling? It's even cooler because there's also peaches growing in the same area. I hope the fruit from that tree is tasty.

Simon

You are welcome.

No Idea about the fruit quality but, It could be a turpentine mango seedling because It is very popular in this part of the world.

By the way, We don't call it turpentine mango,  we call it Hambaa Omani (Hambaa = Mango).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 07, 2017, 08:54:38 PM
i planted two mangos in November. 1x winters and 1x kiett. after reading this post i'm thinking it might have been a mistake and waste of $$$.

the winters sent out one flower stock but no new leaves. existing leaves do not look that great and it does not look like it is growing.

the kiett keeps sending out flowers and i have started removing the fruit. it does have new growth on the main trunk, but it does not look very healthy and no new leaves on the main branches.

everything else in the yard (avocado, citrus, pineapple guava, plumeria, passion fruit, etc.) is doing great. Papaya in pots are also doing great.

i am coastal san diego county, so cold is not an issue. but high temps are mild and maybe not hot enough?
should i remove growth from the trunk on the kiett?
i am working on finding a soil test kit, lab, etc. maybe need to adjust ph and fertilize???
soil here is very sandy and seems to drain good, so i don't think that is an issue.

any input is appreciated.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 04:20:52 AM
i planted two mangos in November. 1x winters and 1x kiett. after reading this post i'm thinking it might have been a mistake and waste of $$$.

the winters sent out one flower stock but no new leaves. existing leaves do not look that great and it does not look like it is growing.

the kiett keeps sending out flowers and i have started removing the fruit. it does have new growth on the main trunk, but it does not look very healthy and no new leaves on the main branches.

everything else in the yard (avocado, citrus, pineapple guava, plumeria, passion fruit, etc.) is doing great. Papaya in pots are also doing great.

i am coastal san diego county, so cold is not an issue. but high temps are mild and maybe not hot enough?
should i remove growth from the trunk on the kiett?
i am working on finding a soil test kit, lab, etc. maybe need to adjust ph and fertilize???
soil here is very sandy and seems to drain good, so i don't think that is an issue.

any input is appreciated.

Lavern and a few other nurseries may be grafting trees on something other than Florida Turpentine so if you got lucky, you may have a rootstock that actually performs a bit better here. The problem is that Grafted trees want to constantly fruit here in our relatively cool weather.

We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer wether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 08, 2017, 10:09:58 AM
Surfcardiff, I am in a similar position.  Bought florida trees before being clued in by Simon.  Its a lot warmer here 16 miles inland and my trees are starting to flush so give yours a few weeks they will probably start doing it too.  Although I have 5 florida trees and some are flushing and at least one of them just keeps blooming.  So even the trees can't agree on what they want to do.  This is the 3rd time this tree has bloomed this year.  Simon, should I cut the blooms off?  The previous round of blooms, the tree set about 20 fruits and I picked them off and cut off the blooms. Haven't messed with these yet. 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/35408162950_67e6aa39e9_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 08, 2017, 11:06:24 AM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon

Is it ok to feed with fertilizer containing phosphorous?  The best stuff I have is gro power avocado/citrus 8 6 8
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 12:59:44 PM
Yup, it's time to remove those blooms. Eventually the tree will have a vegetative flush. The mango trees love this heat that we currently have and as the soil warms up, the trees roots are better able to uptake more of the minor and trace elements. Now is also a good time to give the trees some balanced fertilizer if you haven't already done so.

Simon

Is it ok to feed with fertilizer containing phosphorous?  The best stuff I have is gro power avocado/citrus 8 6 8

I have the same food and that is a great fertilizer. Young trees still need Phosphorus for growth even though we don't want them to flower at such a young age.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 08, 2017, 03:23:49 PM
We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer whether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon

Is it ok to just cut the blooms off now, or do I need to wait until fruit begins?

Here are a few pictures. The Winters looks dormant. Hope it does something soon  :)

The Keitt keeps blooming but no new vegetative growth??? Hopefully the heat kicks it into the growth gear.


(https://s13.postimg.cc/djklsruv7/MG_2575-2_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/djklsruv7/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/ucfv4xwxv/MG_2576_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ucfv4xwxv/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/8m717nsw3/MG_2577_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8m717nsw3/)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/dan12ui2r/MG_2578_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dan12ui2r/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/vc660nc3n/MG_2580.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vc660nc3n/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 04:22:48 PM
Your Winters is in pretty good shape, I would leave it alone and then stake up the branches as new growth begins to weigh down the branches.

Your Keitt has growth all over the trunk. It looks like it's on Florida Turpentine rootstock and the trunk may be stressed with gummosis, cracks or soft spots on the trunk. You may want to remove all growth below about 3 feet and then stake up the remaining branches. Your tree will be extremely droopy because if the growth habit of Keitt combined with the rootstock. Make sure you supply good micronutrients, especially Manganese.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 08, 2017, 04:45:34 PM
Your Winters is in pretty good shape, I would leave it alone and then stake up the branches as new growth begins to weigh down the branches.

Your Keitt has growth all over the trunk. It looks like it's on Florida Turpentine rootstock and the trunk may be stressed with gummosis, cracks or soft spots on the trunk. You may want to remove all growth below about 3 feet and then stake up the remaining branches. Your tree will be extremely droopy because if the growth habit of Keitt combined with the rootstock. Make sure you supply good micronutrients, especially Manganese.

Simon

I will remove the growth below about 3'.

I picked up a test kit from Armstrong in Encinitas. The ph appears to about neutral, ~7.0. So may need to lower? I will re-read beginning of post to look at options to do this. The kit info pack says 5.0-6.0 for mango. Does this seem correct?
Working on determining nutrient levels next.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 08, 2017, 07:06:30 PM
7.0, isn't too bad but at 6.5, your tree should have no issues uptaking all the micronutrients. The cheap soil test kits are not very reliable and it depends on where you take the sample. For example, the top inch of soil may have a different pH than if you dig down a foot or two. You may want to take many samples from different areas of your yard. My soil has different pH values when I sample the front vs Back vs side yard. The areas where I have been amending the soil are slowly approaching 6.5 and I started with  about 8.2.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 09, 2017, 06:47:01 PM
7.0, isn't too bad but at 6.5, your tree should have no issues uptaking all the micronutrients. The cheap soil test kits are not very reliable and it depends on where you take the sample. For example, the top inch of soil may have a different pH than if you dig down a foot or two. You may want to take many samples from different areas of your yard. My soil has different pH values when I sample the front vs Back vs side yard. The areas where I have been amending the soil are slowly approaching 6.5 and I started with  about 8.2.

Simon


The kit does seem more sophisticated than others I have used, but don't know how repeatable and accurate results are. It is this one http://www.lusterleaf.com/nav/soil_test.html (http://www.lusterleaf.com/nav/soil_test.html)

I did measure at a few locations and all are about the same, 7.0 ph.

Can you recommend products to lower ph and also fertilizer.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 09, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
Granular soil sulfur is what I use. I also use cotton seed meal and pH down which you can order online. The pH down works immediately but gets washed away just as quickly. The soil sulfur acts more long term. The cotton seed meal has nutrients and will decrease soil pH slightly.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on July 10, 2017, 10:58:18 AM
The only local Nursery that has grafted mangos on Manilla root stock is Mimosa Nursery in LA. I am taking Simon's advice and planting my Kent and manilla seedling in the ground and letting them grow for several years prior to grafting. I have some mango trees on Turpentine root stock I purchased from Florida two years ago but they are in containers and are only used for creating scions for my mango seedling I planted in the ground. Based on my two years of experience doing this, the Florida mango's do appear to look droopy and in general do not grow as well relative to my non turpentine trees. I would avoid using Florida root stock in California.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on July 11, 2017, 12:59:51 AM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on July 11, 2017, 03:57:18 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).
Do you aplly coffee grounds when it is very hot during growing season also?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 11, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).


Opinions on this are all over the place.  It would be best to do an actual test of the PH of the grounds.  Using sulfer is a more surefire way to lower soil PH.  Or if you garden on a small scale, using RO water and PH adjusting the water with nutrients/buffers is best.

http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/ (http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/)

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on July 11, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
I can't speak to the effectiveness for mango trees, but for various subtropicals that need lower pH soils I have had great luck with tons of coffee grounds.  I guess I've had better luck with this than others have, because most folks I've suggested it to haven't found it to work as well, but I think it's because I use way more grounds.  I get them from coffee shops and give each tree a lot (during the growing season you can give each tree a 5 gallon bucket of grounds every couple weeks, mixed with a bit of tree trimmings / woody mulch to prevent it from forming a hard layer).


Opinions on this are all over the place.  It would be best to do an actual test of the PH of the grounds.  Using sulfer is a more surefire way to lower soil PH.  Or if you garden on a small scale, using RO water and PH adjusting the water with nutrients/buffers is best.

[url]http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/[/url] ([url]http://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/[/url])


I do use sulfur, sometimes.  But I prefer coffee grounds because: 1) it builds soil organic matter, 2) worms seem to love it, 3) it serves as a mild, relatively balanced fertilizer, 4) it gently adjusts pH, 5) it's widely available, and 6) most importantly, it seems to work really well to correct the problems associated with high pH soils for subtropicals around here.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 12, 2017, 03:07:09 PM
We are just starting our Tropicalfruit summers where nightly lows are almost above 65F so most mango trees should be pushing vegetative growth if you remove the blooms now.

Can you post a picture of your tree? This will help to answer whether or not to remove the growth from the trunk of the Keitt. If your Citrus and Plumeria are growing fine, your Mango shouldn't be too far off.

Simon

Is it ok to just cut the blooms off now, or do I need to wait until fruit begins?



Here are a few pictures. The Winters looks dormant. Hope it does something soon  :)

The Keitt keeps blooming but no new vegetative growth??? Hopefully the heat kicks it into the growth gear.


(https://s13.postimg.cc/djklsruv7/MG_2575-2_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/djklsruv7/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/ucfv4xwxv/MG_2576_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ucfv4xwxv/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/8m717nsw3/MG_2577_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8m717nsw3/)
(https://s13.postimg.cc/dan12ui2r/MG_2578_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dan12ui2r/) (https://s13.postimg.cc/vc660nc3n/MG_2580.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vc660nc3n/)


The soil seems too dry at this time of year. If day time with above 80F, then water every other day about 2 gallons each tree, new shoots would come.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 12, 2017, 03:16:52 PM
Spaugh & Surcardiff,

My trees used to have the same look as yours until I changed the way I watered them. Dig a trench 12" around away from the trunk and water the trench and not near the trunk. This encourage root to grow outward instead of root bound and trees will be more healthier and grow faster.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 16, 2017, 07:47:45 PM
thanks for all the input.

the winter's is is starting vegetative growth, yeah!!!

i picked up some soil sulfur and Gro Power 8-6-8. How often do i reapply the soil sulfur?

i didn't do the trench, but a ring of 1/2-inch poly tube around the perimeter with adjustable drips. this way i can modify configuration as tree grows. i'm going to do this on all my citrus/avocado.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: surfcardiff on July 17, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
few picts


(https://s22.postimg.cc/sd9ln6kct/MG_2588_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/sd9ln6kct/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/woy7c6r9p/MG_2589_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/woy7c6r9p/)

(https://s22.postimg.cc/3y1dm4lfx/MG_2590_copy.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3y1dm4lfx/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 17, 2017, 01:04:26 PM
Is anyone in California using SOP (Sulfate of Potash/Potassium Sulfate) on their mangoes? I can't seem to find the 0-0-50 anywhere.

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 17, 2017, 01:20:46 PM
I believe Walter Anderson Nursery in Poway has that but call them to make sure. I wouldn't use that on young trees however because they need Nitrogen to grow. Nitrogen is also utilized by plants when flowering and fruiting but it is rarely mentioned.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 17, 2017, 01:32:09 PM
Thanks Simon! The trees have been in the ground two years now. I'm targeting to let them fruit next year. They are growing like crazy right now; new shoots coming out everywhere.  I'll probably give them one more application of Citrus and Avocado fertilizer, but around October I was thinking of giving them some SOP before they start to bloom in the Winter. Are they still too young for that?

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 17, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
I would personally not let a two year old tree fruit, even if it was planted as a 7 gallon but the decision is ultimately the growers choice because only you have an idea how you want your tree to grow and produce.

My best friend allows his young trees to fruit against my advice because he wants to purposefully stunt his trees as he does not want them to grow too large. Unfortunately, allowing young unestablished trees to fruit also weakens them and opens them up to disease.

I would much rather wait and have a large established tree producing lots of fruit year after year than allowing a young tree produce 1-5 ok fruit the second year and get stunted growth or possibly a weakened or dead tree in the following years.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on July 17, 2017, 04:41:38 PM
I would personally not let a two year old tree fruit, even if it was planted as a 7 gallon but the decision is ultimately the growers choice because only you have an idea how you want your tree to grow and produce.

My best friend allows his young trees to fruit against my advice because he wants to purposefully stunt his trees as he does not want them to grow too large. Unfortunately, allowing young unestablished trees to fruit also weakens them and opens them up to disease.

I would much rather wait and have a large established tree producing lots of fruit year after year than allowing a young tree produce 1-5 ok fruit the second year and get stunted growth or possibly a weakened or dead tree in the following years.

Simon
Dr. Campbell speaks about this point in the last video you shared in the other thread, he was talking about a fine line that separate dwarfing and stunting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 17, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
I believe Walter Anderson Nursery in Poway has that but call them to make sure. I wouldn't use that on young trees however because they need Nitrogen to grow. Nitrogen is also utilized by plants when flowering and fruiting but it is rarely mentioned.

Simon

Yes they do have it.  I use it on my hibiscus plants along with other more well balanced fertilizers.  I would probably try grow power flower and bloom 3-12-12 on the mango trees instead of hitting it with 0 0 50 if you are looking for less nitrogen and want to promote bloom/fruit. 

I use the grow power 8 6 8 on my fruit trees and use the flower bloom  3 12 12 on my flowering plants and vegetables/berries/watermelons. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 07, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
Using some fertilizer on the trees seems to have gotten them going.  Here are my florida trees.  They seem to be doing ok.  Slow growing but healthy.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4378/36289676691_d8121172a9_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4396/36426396555_e900a05e88_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4392/36289694731_276d217987_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on August 08, 2017, 12:16:28 PM
I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!
My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.


So maybe there's hope, yet!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on August 08, 2017, 12:37:53 PM
My mango seedling has these weird black spots on the sides of the leaves, and one of the leaves has an odd black dot that is spreading.. Is it anthracnose? Will it kill the young seedling?


Thanks, Matt
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 08, 2017, 05:01:50 PM
Nice updates Spaugh! Any pics of the seedlings we planted? Now is also a good time to give our trees micronutrients either through foliar feeding or through soil drenches. Iron is especially important but so is Magnesium and Manganese, especially here in SoCal.

Matt, I get spotting on many of my seedlings and they seem to grow through it. My seedlings are responding really well to the micronutrients.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 08, 2017, 08:26:37 PM
Will wait a week or 2 to photo the in ground seeds and transplants.  The transplanted ones are about to flush.  Seeds are still real tiny.  They may get cooked in the sun, not really sure yet.

I have another dozen seeds in pots that I may experiment with indoors under a 200W cree cob grow light.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on August 09, 2017, 01:38:10 AM
I believe I ordered my 0-0-50 from Southern Ag? I also ordered chelated iron and micros as well. Its nice when you can have things delivered. Chris
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on August 09, 2017, 05:41:28 AM
Nice updates Spaugh! Any pics of the seedlings we planted? Now is also a good time to give our trees micronutrients either through foliar feeding or through soil drenches. Iron is especially important but so is Magnesium and Manganese, especially here in SoCal.

Matt, I get spotting on many of my seedlings and they seem to grow through it. My seedlings are responding really well to the micronutrients.

Simon
Hi simon, are Iron, Magnesium and Manganese safe to drench during summer heat? I have no idea about this and my question may sound stupid, but i wanted to be sure before drenching my seedling with these nutrients.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 09, 2017, 08:28:03 AM
Yes, it's safe do drench with these in summer heat, at least where I live. For container plants, it's good to feed frequently but in diluted concentrations because frequent watering washes away much of the soils nutrients. Southern Ag Citrus nutritional spray is a great drench and foliar. You can also use a complete fertilizer with a good micro package.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on August 09, 2017, 11:27:47 AM
Hey simon, you said those black spots are normal, what are they?

Also, I would like to ask the forum when I should divide these mango seedlings? Thanks, Matt
(https://s1.postimg.cc/r2owmvmbf/IMG_1245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/r2owmvmbf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/ag7cdstdn/IMG_1246.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ag7cdstdn/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 09, 2017, 05:57:19 PM
Matt, I can't even see any black spots on the leaves. My eyes are not so good, can you take a zoomed in picture? You can separate seedlings once the current flush has fully hardened. Actually, wait a week or two after fully hardening just to be safe. Once you seperate them, you may want to give them some shade until they recuperate at which time you can slowly transition them back to full sun.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ikk on August 16, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
I am looking a purchasing a Mango Tree I did find the Manila at HomeDepot which I am considering buying although I am also looking at possibly a dwarf variety.  I know you can keep the mango trees trimmed and kept at a more desirable size like 8 to 10 feet high and wide.  My question is this.  I am working on redoing my yard this fall and would like to purchase the mango sooner rather than later.  Also the area where I plan to keep the tree is in an area I may not touch for a few years. I have a few questions I would like to have answered if possible.
Can I keep it in a pot.  I plan on make the pot myself out of wood if it needs to be large so size is not an issue.
If kept in pot what soil would be best to use? I do plan to use Mulch
It will be hooked up to drip irrigation so drying out should not be an issue.
I grow Bananas in my area without issue so I figure I should have the climate for a Mango
Thanks
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2017, 02:39:49 PM
Mango's grow much slower here in SoCal the un pruned Lavern Mnillas seem to slow down a lot when they get to about 15 feet tall and that's without pruning. It's best to plant into the ground immediately but in your situation where you may or may not work on that part of your yard, you may be better off finishing your yard before even purchasing the trees.

When I planted out my yard, I thought I was being smart by getting my trees into the ground immediately so that I can get fruit sooner but that turned out really bad because now there's weeds growing everywhere. I should have completed my land/hardscapping first taking into account sloping the soil away from the foundation and all the other little caveats that one should consider when landscaping.

It's ok to keep them in pots for a while but make sure you up pot when necessary. You don't want J root or your tree getting pot bound.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 03:08:45 PM
So let me ask a question. I know this May have been covered many times but I wanna make sure that I got it. Is it more advisable to plant a Manila seedling from LaVerne and allow it to branch out before top working which will result in greater success or can we just graft onto a new seedling from LaVerne And expect the same results. I guess my question is which one is more vigorous due to our weather constraints and the length of our seasons. Which one is stronger or is it equal since we are using manila rootstock  either way?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: fyliu on August 16, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
So here is the rough list of things that happen.

1. Get LaVerne seedling in pot
2. Plant it in the ground
3. Let it grow new roots
4. Let it grow new leaves
5. Top the trunk at some height: knee, waist, or chest.
6. Let it grow new branches
7. Graft onto the end of new branches

Zarafet, if I understand you correctly, you're asking about grafting it after step 1 versus grafting it in step 7.

I don't think it's a good idea to graft in the pot. The plant is not as strong as it would be in the ground.
The stronger the rootstock, the more vigorous the graft. I think doing it after step 5 is stronger than step 7 since the full strength of the tree is on one graft rather than divided among several branches. How do you know the tree is strong before it grows new branches is the problem with trying to do it earlier. It'll grow more roots the longer you wait.

If you get a tree now, there's not much time left to graft this year. So you need to decide to graft it in before October or next April-May.

Anyway, definitely put it in the ground first if that's the ultimate goal for it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
Thx, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
As fyliu mentioned, there are many factors at play and very early in this thread, around page 1, I mentioned that it's best to plant the Lavern Manilla or random seedling into the ground and just let it grow and establish.

I would not immediately graft because once the tree is grafted, it will likely flowering its first or second Winter which uses a lot of energy. It's better to just let the tree grow and establish its roots. It is ok to shape the tree if it does not have good branching but if it's a whip, just plant it and let it grow for about a year before you top it to create your branching.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 16, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
 That was my next question, I bought 2 just now,  thank you all for your experience and wisdom. I have a 3 year old in ground Keitt seedling and it's VERY dwarfed, I have 4 growth flushes at 1 foot,  I will let it do it's thing and once old enough to flower, I'll graft it to a seedling to see if it's a true dwarf or if it's responding to it's environment vs biology.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Seanny on August 17, 2017, 10:43:56 PM
Air pruning mango seedling

(https://s29.postimg.cc/kibsi8p2b/iphone_pix_051.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kibsi8p2b/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on August 18, 2017, 01:19:38 AM
Has anyone here bought any of La Verne's pre-grafted mangos and then grafted more varieties on those?  (Do they use their "Manila" trees as rootstock for their grafted ones?)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on August 18, 2017, 02:11:10 AM
No and yes.

Has anyone here bought any of La Verne's pre-grafted mangos and then grafted more varieties on those?  (Do they use their "Manila" trees as rootstock for their grafted ones?)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on August 19, 2017, 09:46:50 AM
I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 04:24:20 PM
Heres the multigraft tree Simon, and my 20222 winters and sweet tart.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4439/35932686033_229d0d6afa_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4376/35932689743_b588939893_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4356/36742144775_271702cfa1_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.

I wish I could find some of those in San Diego County.  Would speed things up considerably if they were a decent shape and ready to graft onto.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 22, 2017, 10:26:53 PM
Thanks for the update Spaugh! Just for clarification, the experimental multiple rootstock tree is innarched but ungrafted(no mature scion wood grafted on). I neglected it by keeping it in the pot too long but it looks like it's really enjoying your fast draining soil. I'm eager to see how it will grow once the roots are fully established.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 22, 2017, 10:46:16 PM
 :) the other seedling looks good too, it has a little flush started that is deep purple also.  The florida trees had more of a brown flush.  Ive got about 15 altfolo seeds started, a couple kents and keitts.  Going to setup a grow lamp in my garage (which stays a bit cooler than outside) this week and put half indoors and give them RO water and liquid fertilizer and see how they like that.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on September 01, 2017, 01:58:33 AM
Top 5 mangos in SoCal so far long way to go
St 5
Carrie4.90
coc 4.75
Fairchild 4.65
HK4.5
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on September 01, 2017, 02:29:42 AM
Thats funny. I gave a couple of 'Carries' to an Indian colleague and she hasn't stopped raving about them since last year. To each their own (I like them...Shh). Chris
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 01, 2017, 10:11:08 AM
Top 5 mangos in SoCal so far long way to go
St 5
Carrie4.90
coc 4.75
Fairchild 4.65
HK4.5

Frank, thanks for the report! I really like the top three you have listed so far. Too bad my Carrie on Turpentine rootstock died shortly after it fruited. I'm going to graft a few onto my seedling rootstocks.

For those growing mangos in SoCal, if you have young trees that are not of fruit bearing age, you can fertilize again right now to encourage an additional flush if your tree isn't already in an active state of growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on September 26, 2017, 11:08:46 AM

I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!

My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.

So maybe there's hope, yet!

And here is it:


(http://www.kan.org/pictures/KeittMango3.5Years.jpg)


I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.


This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on September 26, 2017, 11:40:36 AM
I have a question about growing mangoes in California. I am having my father in-law flying in from the Philippines to help me with the yard and tropical fruit trees while I am overseas. Can variety of mangoes like Valencia Pride stay the cold nights of Riverside uncovered? He possibly doesn't know what the hell he is doing over there. That's why I don't want to bother him over covering this tree, that tree. I just want him to do basis plant care only. Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on September 26, 2017, 12:17:32 PM
yes, I am in Corona and we every year hit 32, havent lost much, however occasionaly you will lose a limb on young trees. key is on frost nights (there are 1 or 3 per year) water heavy, water keeps the temps up.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mugenia on September 26, 2017, 12:29:18 PM
That's good to hear.  Thanks,  Behl!

yes, I am in Corona and we every year hit 32, havent lost much, however occasionaly you will lose a limb on young trees. key is on frost nights (there are 1 or 3 per year) water heavy, water keeps the temps up.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 26, 2017, 01:32:32 PM

I heard from a guy who grew florida mangoes in California to pluck off the fruits after they get to the size of a large lima bean, then it thinks it's done fruiting for the year. I tried it myself and even in cold weather, the mangoes don't seem to be putting out new flowers, rather, a heck more leaf growth has pushed out!

My 3-yr-old Keitt tree (from Plant-o-gram) sprouted some panicles this summer, and I snipped them all off when the fruits got to about that size. It just pushed out the nicest vegetative flush it's ever grown.

So maybe there's hope, yet!

And here is it:


([url]http://www.kan.org/pictures/KeittMango3.5Years.jpg[/url])


I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.


This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.


Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Zarafet on September 27, 2017, 08:48:40 AM
I have used cloud cover (or wilt pruf) on 30 degree nights and have NEVER  lost a leaf or branch. It's not guaranteed as there are many factors like microclimate that play a role in protecting the tree. I also use it in the dead in summer on over 100 degree days to protect from sunburn and water loss due to the heat, on top of painting trunks and exposed branches with a 50/50 mixture of paint and water.



I have a question about growing mangoes in California. I am having my father in-law flying in from the Philippines to help me with the yard and tropical fruit trees while I am overseas. Can variety of mangoes like Valencia Pride stay the cold nights of Riverside uncovered? He possibly doesn't know what the hell he is doing over there. That's why I don't want to bother him over covering this tree, that tree. I just want him to do basis plant care only. Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Jct on September 27, 2017, 01:47:40 PM
I wish I could find some of those in San Diego County.  Would speed things up considerably if they were a decent shape and ready to graft onto.
Not sure if you are looking for just the Manila Mango or ones with another variety grafted onto it, but I've seen a bunch of Manilas at Walter Anderson.  Some look better than others and they're a bit expensive, but I ended up taking the plunge on one.  Growth has been slow so far.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TheWaterbug on September 27, 2017, 02:36:31 PM
I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.

This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
80s and 90s. Not terribly hot. And not terribly different from what happened last August. Maybe it just hit adolescence, finally.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on September 27, 2017, 03:24:37 PM
Hey guys, I'm having trouble deciding which sweet tart mango seedling came true, answer tree 1 or tee 2 depending on which is true, they both have a very pungent odor to their leaves
Tree 1
(https://s26.postimg.cc/3ntwwbl4l/IMG_0830.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3ntwwbl4l/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/pyhrwaiet/IMG_0991.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pyhrwaiet/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/5aej3t7sl/IMG_1091.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5aej3t7sl/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/5lvzgko8l/IMG_1537.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5lvzgko8l/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/razgy6fud/IMG_1538.jpg)
Tree 2


[url=https://postimg.cc/image/s2akmxbqt/](https://s26.postimg.cc/s2akmxbqt/IMG_0213.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/razgy6fud/)

(https://s26.postimg.cc/6n5vgk0xh/IMG_0321.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6n5vgk0xh/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 28, 2017, 10:04:07 AM
Hey Annonamangolord, if you don't have a real Sweet Tart to compare the scent to, you can stop by my house to break a leaf off and compare to your seedlings. In these cases where you are not sure which one is the true clone, it's best to grow both seedlings together and wait for them to fruit and then ax the one that is not the clone, unless of course the non clone also has great fruit. I have several Sweet Tart seedlings and in my case, both seedlings arising from the seed are both clones.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 28, 2017, 11:23:11 AM
I'd say nearly half of the total foliage is brand new.

This tree has done almost nothing for 3 years, but it's finally starting to grow. I wonder what prompted it to get going.
Looks nice.  I guess it was the heat wave we had 3 weeks ago.  How hot did it get there for the heat wave?
80s and 90s. Not terribly hot. And not terribly different from what happened last August. Maybe it just hit adolescence, finally.

I looked at the weather for your town its 70s all week.  Its in the 90s here.  You got some beautiful mild weather there.  Maybe a bit overly mild for mangos.  They really like triple digit heat to make them grow.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on September 28, 2017, 01:59:17 PM
Looking at spaugh's pic in post #80: the tree was under stress and wanted to die. It said let me die once I bear some babies. The the photos it seems the environment is hot , strong sun, and low humidity during summer. Look at the lower part of the trunk: scorched bark.

Now look at pic in post #126 of the same garden -- the un-scorched trunk had some protection from the lower leaves.

In this environment, we can help the mangoes by protecting the exposed trunks (wrapping light color paper around, or allowing shootings remain around the lower trunks to provide shade).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on September 28, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
The tree from post 80 wasn't in the later post but I have some photos of it.  All of the trees were planted during the cold season and then pugged in spring of this year to a bare stem around 18" tall.  When it grew it started flowering because it is a florida grafted tree and the cold weather makes it bloom until summer.  Once the temps got up it did a few vegetative flushes.  This tree did more flowers over winter than my others.  Its the reason Simon says graft onto a mature tree.  Or they will end up like this one spending half the year flowering.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4239/35408162950_67e6aa39e9_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4396/36426396555_e900a05e88_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4379/37245354895_736eb84aea_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenbean88 on September 29, 2017, 07:02:33 PM
WOW this thread has been a wealth of knowledge to read through as a very new SoCal Mango guy. I currently have 4 mangos in the ground and room for about six more :) I want to take the time and transition everything to Manila root stock myself. My question is if I have several Manila root stock plants that I bought from Lowes should I plant these trees in there permanent locations right now or leave them in there pots and graft/plant them in spring?   

Also on a separate issue Toptropicals website is posting that they have Orange Sherbet grafted trees for sale is there any possibility that this could be legit?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on September 30, 2017, 02:21:04 PM
OS from top tropicals is not legit, you'll have better luck asking some local guys on the forum maybe next year, or if anyone in CA has a fruiting tree, ask them. The OS from top tropicals is a LZ. Os generally has flat leaves and a valencia orange smell to the leaves, and the new growth is somewhat transluscent
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 30, 2017, 04:31:19 PM
WOW this thread has been a wealth of knowledge to read through as a very new SoCal Mango guy. I currently have 4 mangos in the ground and room for about six more :) I want to take the time and transition everything to Manila root stock myself. My question is if I have several Manila root stock plants that I bought from Lowes should I plant these trees in there permanent locations right now or leave them in there pots and graft/plant them in spring?   

Also on a separate issue Toptropicals website is posting that they have Orange Sherbet grafted trees for sale is there any possibility that this could be legit?

For your Manilla Mango trees, it depends on your climate. Do you get frost? If you Mango trees can survive outdoors unprotected, I would immediately plant them now so they can establish a bit before Winter hits. If you do get frost, I would wait until after the last frost date to plant.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenbean88 on October 01, 2017, 10:45:39 PM
Thank you Annona and Simon for your responses. Simon I do not think that my area gets frost but that got me thinking what defines frost? Is it a temperature or actual frozen water that covers the ground/plants?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on October 02, 2017, 01:26:25 AM
Here is that picture of the 15gal La Verne Manila mango I found for sale.




I called la Verne and asked them directly. They said they use the same rootstock for all their mangoesband just graft on other varieties (like keitt). For Manila, they just let thebrootstock grow.

I did try and graft on earlier this season. Didn't takenbutbthat was probably me.

I recently found a 15 gallon la Verne Manila monster at h&h nursery in Lakewood. Couldn't believe the size of this juggernaut. Will post a picture if I can figure that out later.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/8zmphpyobf/IMG_2602.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8zmphpyobf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/5u77is5rez/IMG_2603.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5u77is5rez/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: arc310 on October 02, 2017, 01:35:16 AM
how far apart are you guys here in socal planting the mango trees from each other?  i read that our climate here does limit growth (so not like the huge mango trees i see in every yard in hawaii when i was there haha).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BestDay on October 02, 2017, 09:43:36 AM
Mine are planted seven to eight feet apart. After a year and a half in the ground it seems like reasonable spacing. Only time will tell though.

Bill
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 12:00:51 PM
I copy and pasted this from another thread because the discussion is useful here:
I have a bunch of random seedlings and itís too early to say for sure but they all seem to grow as well as the Lavern Manilla Mango seedlings.

Simon

Interesting.  What do you think it is about the Turpentine seedlings they use in Florida that makes them particularly bad for California?  I ask because if so many different seedlings can work for us, but Turpentine doesn't, there must be something about it that makes it uniquely bad for us and good in Florida.

Iíve been contemplating this fact for about the last six years and canít say for sure what it is but there are several possibilities that do pop up in my head.

One of the possibilities is the fact that the trees are initially grown and potted in Florida and we donít know how long theyíve been in the pots. They can be in the pots for extended periods of time because they need to be shipped to California and once they reach their destination here, they still need to be displayed at the Nursery where they may sit for another several months up to several years before they are sold. Based on my own personal experience, trees that are immediately planted into the ground as soon as they are purchased establish faster and appear to be much healthier than a tree that is purchased and kept in a pot for an extended period of time before planting.

Having stated the above, I was delivered several trees which were smaller and very healthy when I received them and I immediately planted them into the ground and they still died. They were Tebow, Carrie, NDM #4 and Mallika.

Another possibility is that there are disease pressures here that are not prevalent in Florida. Some of the major issues we get here is Phomopsis, gummosis and droopy branches that seem to lignify at a small diameter and not expanding much, or at all, after the lignification. I can pretty easily look at a Mango trees trunk and branches and tell whether itís a Florida tree or not.

We have noticed several details that should give us a clue as to why the Florida trees perform so poorly here. Several varieties such as Valencia Pride, Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart and a few others appear to grow very well here on Florida rootstock although they still get some dieback, gummosis and droopy branches. These varieties are all vigorous and seem to be able to outgrow whatever it is thatís inhibiting other varieties on Florida rootstock.

Another pattern that I have noticed over the years is that the Florida rootstock trees appear to grow much better in areas with more heat units. This should be obvious to most people but it can easily be overlooked when we are focused on a specific geographical location such as Florida Vs SoCal. In Palm Springs, Garyís trees on Florida rootstock are growing very well and even his Lemon Zest on Florida Turpentine rootstock is growing excellent and producing lots of high quality fruit.

When we focus in specifically on SoCal, I have noticed a trend where all the microclimates with higher heat units such as La Habra, Anaheim Hills and other slightly warmer cities in SoCal have much better success with Florida trees than in cooler climates like mine.

I know we would like to keep it simple and find the one reason why the Florida rootstock trees perform so poorly here but nature is complex and dynamic and I believe the issue is a combination of all the factors I listed above.

If I were to make my best guess right now, I would say that the Florida trees perform poorly here because (1) of the long duration they are kept in their pots, both at the Nursery in Florida, the Nursery here in SoCal and also at the homeowners property before they are planted into the ground.
(2) there are disease pressures here, or acquired in Florida, that affect our trees much more severely because of reason (1) above and because our cooler climate does not enable our trees to outgrow the disease pressures as easily as if they were grown at a warmer climate with higher heat units such as that of Florida or warmer parts of SoCal.

A grower can better understand what Iím describing above if you track how many vegetative growth flushes we get here Vs what Floridians get. Some of my Florida rootstock trees such as Glenn, Edward, Spirit of 76 and Maha Chanok have been in the ground about 7 years now and on average, they only vegetatively flush twice a year.

This is partially due to the fact that they bloom and hold fruit for about 6+ months out of the year and we only get good vegetative flushes for the warmest 2-4 months depending on where you live.

In order to capitalize on this small window period of ďIdealĒ growing weather, the Mango grower must water and fertilize properly in order to take advantage of these conditions.

I will copy and paste this into my ďGrowing Mango trees in SoCalĒ thread as I am drifting off topic.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on October 14, 2017, 12:09:05 PM
Thanks Simon for the detailed answer.  That makes sense, and I'm happy with a complex answer rather than a simple one.

I wonder if a corollary is that we might want to find varieties (or related species) that are from higher elevations in the tropics and use those as rootstock here to improve year round growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 02:03:25 PM
That could work. Seedlings are highly variable however and Polyembryonic varieties would be the best choice for consistency. Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.

Here is a picture of a Kent, Keitt, Haden not sure which one, seedling that is approximately 3-4 months old. It is almost two feet tall and has a strong trunk for a seedling itís size. It grew so fast because of the fertilizer and the timing of the growth. It went through itís seedling growth period during Summer and was able to capitalize on all the heat.
(https://s1.postimg.cc/1phpv7rm4r/267_CB119-_DC2_C-4296-_B4_B7-6_DE954_DB33_E3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/1phpv7rm4r/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/7b6oux29nv/9_E98_AC8_A-5_C77-4_BF4-_A2_D6-56_F338942206.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7b6oux29nv/)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 14, 2017, 02:23:18 PM
Here are a few other random Mango seedlings I have planted in the yard.


(https://s1.postimg.cc/3lxus6chbf/095_AEC95-_EED8-454_B-9_A35-_BF26_C47_DF6_DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/3lxus6chbf/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/8tt5f66za3/2_B0_ED88_A-4511-4797-_AC13-_D34_B4_B336969.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8tt5f66za3/)

(https://s1.postimg.cc/7206k9f9gr/E136495_E-_CDA6-465_C-8797-_E229758495_F3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7206k9f9gr/)
So preliminary results show that random seedlings grow as well as LaVern Manilla. Productivity, disease resistance and long term survivability are yet to be unseen however Leo Manuel has many huge Mango trees and the majority of them are top worked seedling trees.
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 12:58:39 PM
Here are pictures of my trees.  Some ordered from Florida, some purchased at Champa Nursery, some from Exotica.  All on Turpentine, I believe.

My Phoenix.  First year in the ground, planted in March.  Growing vigorously, no flowering this year.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/tognxp1t1/20171120_143859.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tognxp1t1/)

Ice Cream.  In ground 2 years.  Slow growing as expected.  Has flowered but also grows vegetatively.  Not my worst performer.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/cb6dj2r51/20171120_143912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cb6dj2r51/)

Lemon Meringue. My best sized tree.  2 yrs in the ground.  Only grows vegetatively, no flowering so far (which is good).

(https://s2.postimg.cc/lvq063tdh/20171120_144031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lvq063tdh/)

More coming....

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 01:18:35 PM
Sweet Tart.  First year in the ground. Has flowered and is growing more slowly than some others.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/yoe45oa0l/20171120_143924.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yoe45oa0l/)

Fruit Punch.  First year in the ground.  Growing vegetatively pretty well.  No flowering.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/rl68q977p/20171120_143929.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rl68q977p/)

Lemon Zest.  First year in the ground.  Growing nicely.  No flowering yet.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/711erxz85/20171120_143944.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/711erxz85/)

Cotton Candy Mango.  First year in the ground. Experienced transplant shock but recovered.  Growing but slowly. 

(https://s2.postimg.cc/v4s6gckat/20171120_144045.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/v4s6gckat/)

Carrie Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers a lot.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/bo7gth1xx/20171120_144023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bo7gth1xx/)

Malika Mango.  2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly. One of the worst for this reason.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/6csk8xvcl/20171120_144059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6csk8xvcl/)

Cyndie


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 22, 2017, 01:28:24 PM
Nam Doc Mai.   2 yrs in the ground. Flowers constantly.  Didn't expect this with NDM as I've seen mature NDM grown pretty close to me.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/6csk94atx/20171120_144115.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6csk94atx/)

Valencia Pride.  2 yrs in the ground. Thought I could get away with a small tree since it's known to be a vigorous grower.  Made the mistake on accident of letting this fruit in the first year (Didn't see the fruit until it was too late) and it has been stunted and has grown very slowly as a result.  I hope it will recover.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/fyqq349d1/20171120_144129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fyqq349d1/)

Well that's it besides a Manila which I am growing and will eventually top work.   I wanted to share so we can all learn from each other to see what Mangoes are growing well in San Diego. I am at 700 ft elevation, 9B. 

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on November 22, 2017, 03:09:14 PM
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!
(https://s33.postimg.cc/bk9g1av5n/20171119_221925.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bk9g1av5n/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 24, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
Cyndie,

Thanks for posting all the pictures! You have a great selection. I am eager to see how your trees perform since most of them are on Florida rootstocks. There were several members here from this forum that planted many Mango trees from Florida and when I messaged them to ask how their trees are doing, they told me that the majority of the trees have already died or are in decline with very slow growth.

Some varieties, namely the more vigorous varieties seem to grow well and even thrive but my observations so far is that the trees would probably be even larger and more productive if it were on a different rootstock. If your soil has a good pH, good draining, mulched well and you get enough heat units, the Florida trees may perform well for you. We have one member here that has lots of Florida trees that seem to be thriving but he is one of only a handful of people having success with Florida rootstock trees so far.

Even when Florida trees grow well here, they tend to be droopy and need to be propped up and it can sometimes take several years before you see a decline in growth rate.

Most your trees look good so far so hopefully they will grow well for you. I recommend planting a few random seedlings next year from store bought fruit and see how their growth rate compares to the Florida rootstock trees. You may be shocked, maybe not?
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 24, 2017, 07:43:24 PM
here is monster seed trying to explode with very strong roots, it came from 30-brix sweet tart I had from my yard.

its in pot now waiting to sprout!
(https://s33.postimg.cc/bk9g1av5n/20171119_221925.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bk9g1av5n/)

Behl, thatís awesome, I have several ST and LZ seedlings growing. I came up with a technique to split polyembryonic Mango seedlings. Simply grow the seed in a pot and once the seedlings are several inches tall, dig them up and crack the seed along the ridge lines.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/psx36vexd/5_A62_B411-15_B2-4796-88_EE-_C66_E0_B4_ABC91.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/psx36vexd/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/6b2fqx2k1/A39_C2309-_B871-4_B76-96_F3-_BE831_C6_C7_CB9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6b2fqx2k1/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/69shy2t6p/CB37_E4_C1-848_D-4014-_BC70-7_B7_E731_A4226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/69shy2t6p/)

(https://s8.postimg.cc/hnf18p3j5/D0_FBDF5_F-3_F4_F-43_D0-88_E3-6_C7_A8_B1399_D8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hnf18p3j5/)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CBG35 on November 25, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
Simon,

Thanks, it should be interesting.  I am considering pulling out the varieties that flower constantly and keeping them in pots for scion wood and planting manila seedlings.  I might also try to plant the same variety on Manila already grafted to see if the rootstock makes a difference. I am determined to be successful growing Mangoes!!

Cyndie
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on November 25, 2017, 05:13:02 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 25, 2017, 10:32:31 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on November 25, 2017, 11:02:08 PM
Simon,

Do you have a recommendation of how high up a La Verne mango should be grafted?  In the past I've usually grafted very low, like I do with avocados (no more than 1 foot from the base) but I'm guessing that will just make the flowering problem more challenging?  The flip side is that I don't want to deal with too many suckers, which I figure will be worse if I graft higher.  I'm curious what you've found works best.

Barath, remember that I recommend grafting only when the rootstock is fully mature, in other words, top work the established seedling or Manilla Mango when it has been established for several years and is large and mature enough for holding fruit to maturity.

This will require a lot of planning because you will have to establish good scaffold branches but it will give you better results in the end because you will avoid wasted energy spent on flowering and holding fruit on young grafted but unestablished trees. Unfortunately you will also have to put on multiple grafts, at least one for each main branch that you are converting.

I know many of us will not have the time or patience to wait until our rootstocks are established for several years before grafting so if you must graft young trees, I recommend grafting low. For all of my DSGed trees and CSMR trees, they are all grafted at about 3-6 inches from the ground to minimize branching from the rootstock. This technique has the benefit that you only need to put one graft on but because you Grafted low and on a young tree, the tree will flower within 2 years and you will get a slower growing tree due to expenditure of energy on flowering.

Simon

Thanks!  I guess what I will try to do for now is graft low and then pot up the trees into 15 gallon pots and keep them in the greenhouse to try to keep them from flowering too much.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 03, 2018, 12:39:26 AM
Member GregA sent this photo and txt msg to me a few months ago.  Figured you guys would like it.

"Saw this mango at a car wash in Point Loma today. Bare dirt, trash, and asphalt for mulch"

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/793/39390977600_82eb46015e_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 03, 2018, 08:15:50 AM
Awesome, I bet itís a seedling. I love seeing thriving Mango trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 03, 2018, 10:39:56 AM
Monoembryonic varieties have too much genetic diversity and each seedling can have growth habits completely different than another seedling from the same mother tree.
Simon

I agree but exceptions always remain. I had a Fruit Punch seedling into 3.5 yrs that grew may be 8 inches total. I also have its scion that I grafted 2.5 yrs ago that grew 3 inches. so this particular seed was a total failure. I am still going to wait to see what that graft does in next several years, LOL

My recommendation is whether you use mono or poly, pick the most aggressive growing seedling for graft and you wont go wrong. You can tell in 6 months if its aggressive or not. One of my kent seedlings grew almost 3/8" in dia and 12 inches tall in about 7 months.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on April 03, 2018, 12:27:59 PM
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and itís shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. MĎY dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 03, 2018, 06:07:14 PM
I actually get faster initial growth rates from Monoembryonic Mango seeds and I hypothesized that it was caused by the seedling having all the resources and food energy stored within the seed where as Polyembryonic Mangos have the seed energy dispersed between multiple seedlings.

The context in which I mentioned that Monoembryonic seedlings have too much genetic diversity is that Monoembryonic seedlings are different from clonal rootstocks. Some people new to growing fruit trees might think that all seedlings arising from a Kent Mango seed for example will grow and produce identical Fruit and trees but this is not the case. Two Kent Mango seedlings can have very different growth rates, shape and smell of leaves/sap/Fruit even though both seedlings are from Kent fruit.

The maternal parent is Kent but the pollinating parent could be anything and even if it was selfed, there is recombination of the genes which can affect the resultant seedlings disease resistance, growth rate and Fruit.

Mono embryonic seeds can make excellent rootstocks but you will get offtypes.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Lionking on April 04, 2018, 12:46:44 AM
Agreed. My mom planted a mango seed at her house - 6 years later and itís shorter tha n my 1 yr old.

Brad - funny you mention a car wash. MĎY dad owns a car wash in Glendora and he has a seedling thatbis 40 feet tall and produces abundant numbers of small tasty mangoes.

And being inland, Glendora gets really hot during the days but can get quite chilly at night.

K

Hey Ca Hockey,

Where about sis the car wash?  I live in Covina/San Dimas border.  My kids go to school in Glendora..
Iíd like to see that tree and maybe taste one of the mangos when available
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: scottsurf on April 07, 2018, 01:00:25 AM
thanks for all the info
going to start with a couple manilla seelings
when do the retail nurseries usaully get la verne stock and best place to get them in the san diego bay area
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 07, 2018, 11:39:09 AM
You can get Lavern Manilla Mangos at Walter Anderson Nursery, Armstrong Nursery and Home Depot. Home Depot and Walter Anderson are probably cheapest at around $25-30 per tree. If you know someone with a nursery license, you can get trees for really cheap directly from Lavern Nursery.

I would also recommend planting a bunch of random seedlings in case one happens to adapt better to your particular growing conditions.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CGP3 on April 15, 2018, 08:14:17 PM
I picked up a glenn and Haden last week that came from la Verne. Iíll let you know how they turn out.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rob P on May 15, 2018, 09:17:56 AM
Just a thought about selecting mango varieties for So.cal. One way to make it easier for the average gardener that does not require grafting skills, would be to select vigorous polyembryonic  varieties that are suited to your soils. To this day over half of the Australian commercial production of mangoes is based on the polyembryonic variety "Kensington Pride" which are produced from seedling trees! . This variety has the drawback of being very vigorous and orchards in tropical Australia use mechanised pruners to keep them manageable, but this would not be an issue in your climate. In fact a variety with lots of vigor would would be perfect for your cooler climate.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BestDay on May 15, 2018, 10:16:09 AM
I have actually been giving this same idea a lot of thought recently. My mangoes have been in the ground for about two years. The varieties described as vigorous upright growers definately look better. They are less droopy and more filled in. My Edward and Ice Cream are flat out ugly. Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart look great.

Bill
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 15, 2018, 06:47:32 PM
Just a thought about selecting mango varieties for So.cal. One way to make it easier for the average gardener that does not require grafting skills, would be to select vigorous polyembryonic  varieties that are suited to your soils. To this day over half of the Australian commercial production of mangoes is based on the polyembryonic variety "Kensington Pride" which are produced from seedling trees! . This variety has the drawback of being very vigorous and orchards in tropical Australia use mechanised pruners to keep them manageable, but this would not be an issue in your climate. In fact a variety with lots of vigor would would be perfect for your cooler climate.

Yes I absolutely agree, planting seeds from polyembryonic varieties is the best way to get a big tree that is less droopy and less likely to flower in its first several years which gives it time to establish and send out roots and shoots.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Dylan SB on May 16, 2018, 02:28:46 AM
How long will it take for monembrianic mangoes to bloom in California from seed?  I have a seed that I planted that has somehow survived the last three winters.  It is maybe 3 feet tall at best.  I had previously gotten a Manilla tree to produce but had removed it after several years of not producing any fruit to what I now know as powdery mildew.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 16, 2018, 08:24:45 AM
Monoembryonic and polyembryonic Mango seedlings can start blooming at a very early age due to cold stimulus. I had a Kent seedling bloom at about three years old although I believe 4-6 years is more common. The size and health of the tree can also affect when it blooms. Trees that are stressed may bloom earlier.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Dylan SB on May 20, 2018, 09:23:37 PM
Simon_Grow,

Thanks for the information.  Here is my small tree that has survived the last three winters.  It gets some protection from the Avocado that I grew from seed behind it. 



(https://s31.postimg.cc/g0d14ehlz/Seedling_Mango.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/g0d14ehlz/)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rob P on May 20, 2018, 11:41:58 PM
Kensington Pride is a vigorous polyembrionic variety that could be tried, is has a very nice distinctive flavor, it does have a small amount of fiber. This variety is used a lot in breeding here in Australia to incorporate some of its flavor to the progeny as it is so familiar to the locals. R2E2 is a very popular variety which is a cross of KP and Kent for memory, it is a very large fruit with little fiber. Being a cross of a monoembrionic and a polyembrionic parent about half of the fruit contain a polyembionic seed, so these seed, can also be tried. Banana-1 is another Australian polyembionic selection that could be tried as well as one called Strawberry, I am happy send seed of all these if required as long as you arrange your own import permits. There are two more polyembrionic varieties that could be tried that are available in the US, one is Nam Doc Mai and the other is Early Gold, this last one is said to have moderate/high anthracnose tolerance.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spoons on July 30, 2018, 01:58:17 PM
After reading most of the entire thread, I've come to the conclusion that growing mango cultivars/varieties in San Diego are best done by grafting to a mature tree or top working rather than grafting to a young seedling rootstock, which is what I was originally planning on doing.

At this point I have over 2 dozen Ataulfo/Manila seedlings in 1 gallon pots and they are sprouting and growing.  I was really hoping to purchase a bunch of scions to graft them onto these younger rootstocks but based on what i've read and the 2 grafted trees i've purchased a couple years ago, i'm going to have to agree.  Neither of the grafted trees I have can support itself without a stake or 3.

The one tree I have has about half a dozen mangos growing but the plant itself is only about 5' tall.

I may graft one or two but I think i'm going to invest in the long haul and focus on growing these seedlings hopefully in a vegetative state for the next few years.  Gonna be tough to invest the time in watering with no fruits in sight. :(

Thank you Simon for posting this very valuable information.  Saves the Socal gardener lots of wasted time, effort and money from doing it the wrong way.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 30, 2018, 03:06:16 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you donít have to graft.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: philek9 on August 01, 2018, 01:52:16 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you donít have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds? 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 03, 2018, 11:30:24 AM
You can post a want add on the buy/sell forum.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 07:33:48 PM
Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you don’t have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds?

First of all I want to say big thank you for starting this thread and all the posts and comments Simon, perhaps I should have looked hear before making my purchase, I have placed an order for two mango trees (from Florida) those should arrive in the coming days or weeks, and I was planning to keep them indoor until the winter season is over.

I too live in San Diego so you can imagine my excitement to see those articles and reasearch were written/done by someone local. I plan to read it all in full, but there are a lot of information to catch up with.  My goal is to graft back ups of those trees on two Lavern Manilla, so my question and apologies if it is already answered, where do you recommend I get two good sized root stocks locally?
 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on December 10, 2018, 07:40:32 PM
Simon has posted that pretty much all over the place. You can sometimes pick up La Verne Manila at your local hardware megastore. They don't always have them, but they do re-stock often, so check in frequently, if they carry La Verne (check the tags) and don't have the Manila seedlings in stock, place an order with them.

Spoons, the other option which is even easier is to plant seeds from Good Polyembryonic varieties so that you have a seedling that will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. The benefit of this is that you donít have to graft.

Simon

Simon, where can one purchase such seeds?

First of all I want to say big thank you for starting this thread and all the posts and comments Simon, perhaps I should have looked hear before making my purchase, I have placed an order for two mango trees (from Florida) those should arrive in the coming days or weeks, and I was planning to keep them indoor until the winter season is over.

I too live in San Diego so you can imagine my excitement to see those articles and reasearch were written/done by someone local. I plan to read it all in full, but there are a lot of information to catch up with.  My goal is to graft back ups of those trees on two Lavern Manilla, so my question and apologies if it is already answered, where do you recommend I get two good sized root stocks locally?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 07:46:46 PM
Thanks, I read as much as I can during my lunch hour and perhaps skimmed over this information. I will check with some of my local nurseries and post in the trade/sale thread as well, I would rather help a fellow member if there are any selling root stocks locally.

Thanks for taking time to reply.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on December 10, 2018, 10:00:04 PM
Thanks, I read as much as I can during my lunch hour and perhaps skimmed over this information. I will check with some of my local nurseries and post in the trade/sale thread as well, I would rather help a fellow member if there are any selling root stocks locally.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

I picked up 2 Manila seedlings for $35 each last time I was at Mimosa LA. They had quite a few in stock, seedlings were 4-5í high.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 10, 2018, 10:27:25 PM
Thanks for the update, that is a place I'd like to visit one day, sadly I am bout 2.5 to 3 hours drive south of that place, I will visit Exotica this weekend see what they have. :-)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 11, 2018, 11:36:16 PM
ManVFruit,

Iíve been recommending LaVern Manilla because it has been tried and tested over many years but recent plantings have revealed to me that most random seedlings(that are vigorous) will work as well and in many cases, even better than LaVern Manilla.

I recommend you plant seeds from both Monoembryonic and Polyembryonic varieties. Plant both types around the areas where you want your tree to be and just let them grow and establish. Once they are established, you can top work them.

The younger they are when you top work them, the fewer number of grafts you have to perform because you can graft the main scaffold branches when they are young. The added benefit of grafting low is that you donít need to give your tree as much attention because you wonít have to worry as much about the rootstock sending up shoots.

The downside to grafting young and low is that because you grafted with mature scions, your grafts will likely flower and fruit in its first or second winter. When flowering is initiated, the weight of the flower panicles will cause the branches to droop towards the ground.

The bending of the branches from a vertical position to a horizontal position further exacerbates the problem because branches that are bent horizontally triggers a hormonal chain reaction which further pushes the balance of the tree towards floral initiation and away from vegetative growth.

We do NOT want our young Mango trees to flower and fruit at a young age! This may sound counter intuitive but trust me on this. We want to delay flowering and fruit production as long as possible.

One technique that helps a bit is to stake up your tree branches as vertical as possible. This is the opposite of what our friends in Florida and other warmer regions want to do but you have to remember that we are growing in a marginal climate for Mangos.

Brad and I have a ton of experimental mango plants growing and we are working on a best practice in order to come up with a technique that will grow the strongest healthiest mango trees with the least amount of effort.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 13, 2018, 01:49:42 AM
Thank you for taking time to write a detailed yet short and easy to ready post, I will most defiantly use this advice in the future when I find a more permanent place (in ground) for them, for now I will just use the three manila seedlings I just got from walter anderson nursery in Poway, oh and they still have some going for $19.99 if anyone is interested. They are in small pots and will most likely try to do approach graft with them, and then gradually move them to bigger pots once I confirm they did take.

 What are your thoughts on Nam Doc Mai as variety? I have 3 seedlings I am growing from seed, is it a variety worth keeping in the hope one is true poly ? or even graft one onto one of my manilas?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on December 13, 2018, 01:58:29 AM
Thank you for contributing.

All your questions have been answered in detail. Please use the search function before asking.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 13, 2018, 02:11:15 AM
Thank you for contributing.

All your questions have been answered in detail. Please use the search function before asking.

Oolie, the above reply is for Simon, I did not use quote feature my apologies if that confused you. I need to learn to use it more often. No not all my questions are answered no, my first were perfectly addressed by Simon though.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 14, 2018, 09:02:02 PM
ManVFruit,

NDM is a great variety to grow from seed.

Brad and I have actually come up with a better way to grow out Polyembryonic seedlings compared to what I recommended about a year ago. Last year, I recommended that we plant Polyembryonic seeds and simply let all the seedlings grow but in our field plantings, we noticed that the seedlings started pushing each other aside, causing them to grow slanted to one side.

Brad came up with the idea to graft one of the seedlings onto another seedling so that we can have a single trunk with two seedling varieties coming out of it. In hindsight, this should have clearly been foreseeable but we have so many different projects we are working on that itís hard to put too much thought into any one project.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on December 14, 2018, 09:32:16 PM
I split a few poly seedlings and planted in multiple holes also.  That is also possible and the plant will take that no problem if its just a few months old or less.  Just carefully seperate them.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 14, 2018, 09:36:24 PM
Hereís a brief summary of our new technique for growing Polyembryonic mango seedlings.

Plant a Polyembryonic mango seed. You will need at least two sprouts from the seed to almost guarantee you get a clone. Based on literature, there can be more than one zygotic seedling so I canít say for sure youíll get a clone.

If you get a lot of seedlings coming up from a seed, select the largest one to use as rootstock and select the next biggest one as a scion donor to graft onto the rootstock. Before you graft onto the rootstock, ensure you save at least one branch from the rootstock in case it is the clone. Because the scion donor is slightly less vigorous, it should be grafted up higher.

In a batch of seedlings coming up from one Polyembryonic mango seed, if there are multiple seedlings that look the same and have similar growth rates, there is a good chance that they are the clones. Remember that I have hypothesized that the Zygotic seedling arising from a Polyembryonic seed can have the potential to yield good tasting fruit. I believe this to be true because such a seedling will have at least 50% of its genes from the maternal parent and the other 50% of its genes will be from another variety or itself.

Even if the zygotic seedling is selfed( pollinated by its own pollen) there will be rearrangement of its genetic material and the resulting fruit can be very different from the parent fruit.

Since most of us are only growing top tier varieties, the paternal pollen(if not selfed) will likely come from another top tier variety.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on December 14, 2018, 10:39:53 PM
Hereís a brief summary of our new technique for growing Polyembryonic mango seedlings.

Plant a Polyembryonic mango seed. You will need at least two sprouts from the seed to almost guarantee you get a clone. Based on literature, there can be more than one zygotic seedling so I canít say for sure youíll get a clone.

If you get a lot of seedlings coming up from a seed, select the largest one to use as rootstock and select the next biggest one as a scion donor to graft onto the rootstock. Before you graft onto the rootstock, ensure you save at least one branch from the rootstock in case it is the clone. Because the scion donor is slightly less vigorous, it should be grafted up higher.

In a batch of seedlings coming up from one Polyembryonic mango seed, if there are multiple seedlings that look the same and have similar growth rates, there is a good chance that they are the clones. Remember that I have hypothesized that the Zygotic seedling arising from a Polyembryonic seed can have the potential to yield good tasting fruit. I believe this to be true because such a seedling will have at least 50% of its genes from the maternal parent and the other 50% of its genes will be from another variety or itself.

Even if the zygotic seedling is selfed( pollinated by its own pollen) there will be rearrangement of its genetic material and the resulting fruit can be very different from the parent fruit.

Since most of us are only growing top tier varieties, the paternal pollen(if not selfed) will likely come from another top tier variety.

Simon

Valuable work you guys are doing, thank you for taking time to share.

Only one of the three NDM seedlings had two seedlings growing, I cut the weaker and slower one of the two few months back, all three are single seedlings growing in individual pots now. I may in future want to use one as rootstock for another variety and keep the two to grow in the hope I get good NDM fruits from them one day .

In the event I wanted to participate in some of the experiments you guys are doing, what Polyembryonic seeds besides NDM would you recommend? NDM seeds are difficult to get locally.

Thanks

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on December 15, 2018, 06:26:08 PM
NDM seedlings grow vigorously. The PPK line( PPK, LZ, OS) also grows vigorously. I recommend getting your hands on as many of the better tasting varieties as you can get and growing them because what grows well in my yard may not necessarily grow well in your yard.

Besides the ones I recommended already, Sweet Tart, CAC, Coconut Cream, Pina Colada.

These are just based off of taste.

If you can find them, E4, M4, Buttercream

PiŮa Colada starts out slow, Iím waiting to see how it does after the seedling stage.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 16, 2018, 05:43:14 PM
A couple of weeks ago I had one of Behlís sweet tart mangoes. Phenomenal! Not a single black spot on it (sorry Florida folks but every st I had from Florida had some large soft black spots in them), perfectly ripe, and a brix of >32 . It basically maxxed the meter. Now Iíve got 3 sweet tarts going in my yard, 2 from Brad and one I grafted from Behl. Sadly the seed from this amazing mango didnít make it. When I cracked open the seed huskier just didnít look right and never germinated.

If my mango trees can get through the winter then I think Iím looking at a good summer of growth next year. Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on December 16, 2018, 10:51:40 PM
A couple of weeks ago I had one of Behlís sweet tart mangoes. Phenomenal! Not a single black spot on it (sorry Florida folks but every st I had from Florida had some large soft black spots in them), perfectly ripe, and a brix of >32 . It basically maxxed the meter. Now Iíve got 3 sweet tarts going in my yard, 2 from Brad and one I grafted from Behl. Sadly the seed from this amazing mango didnít make it. When I cracked open the seed huskier just didnít look right and never germinated.

If my mango trees can get through the winter then I think Iím looking at a good summer of growth next year. Fingers crossed.

Kahled
ST is definitely an amazing mango grown here in Socal but you should get your hands on some LZ. It has won 3 tastings in the last 4 years. it doesn't blow the lid of the meter like ST but it certainly holds its own (26-30 brix).   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on December 16, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
One day Iíll get to try it - maybe next year. I had great growth on my lz tree but had a large scaffold branch rip off in the winds. Luckily my trees are still growing! I didnít prune the tree well last year so some of the scaffolding branches originate from one spot on the tree. I think In subsequent  years I will selectively prune some of these large branches off but in the meantime I will see how things shape up over winter 😀.

Unless that is a terrible idea...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 08, 2019, 05:03:14 PM
Here are pictures of my trees.  Some ordered from Florida, some purchased at Champa Nursery, some from Exotica.  All on Turpentine, I believe.

My Phoenix.  First year in the ground, planted in March.  Growing vigorously, no flowering this year.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/tognxp1t1/20171120_143859.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tognxp1t1/)

Ice Cream.  In ground 2 years.  Slow growing as expected.  Has flowered but also grows vegetatively.  Not my worst performer.

(https://s2.postimg.cc/cb6dj2r51/20171120_143912.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/cb6dj2r51/)

Lemon Meringue. My best sized tree.  2 yrs in the ground.  Only grows vegetatively, no flowering so far (which is good).

(https://s2.postimg.cc/lvq063tdh/20171120_144031.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/lvq063tdh/)

More coming....

Cyndie

Would u be kind enough to post update photos on ur mango trees? Thanks
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 12:13:47 AM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on April 09, 2019, 12:40:20 AM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.
your best rootstock is kent or manila, germinate seed and show into ground in Apr, graft it in Sep/Oct and keep it warm. put into ground following year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: arc310 on April 09, 2019, 12:52:36 PM
Does anyone have experience with Corriente rootstock and if they are suitable for Southern California? Maddock is selling 5 gallons for $28.

i have corriente, manila and turpentine all in the same area and planted around the same time. i won't have any concrete proof till years later haha. but i was told as you've read that manila is good here..but corriente is great too but more unknown and harder to find (ie manila available at the box stores).
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 12:56:12 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 01:33:34 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 01:40:10 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 01:46:25 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 09, 2019, 02:10:20 PM
Hi all

I bought a month glenn mango from Champa a month ago.  After bare rooting it and leave it in the shade for couple weeks, I'm planning to leave it in a 5 gallon container for a couple months.  How much and how often should I water it while it is still in the container? -James
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 02:26:28 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Jks3f41/Screenshot-20190408-223440-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8Jks3f41)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fVxLRfgz/Screenshot-20190408-223448-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVxLRfgz)
 :)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cdzxqg66/Screenshot-20190408-223758-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cdzxqg66)


It depends what kind of soil u use. This was my ST on pot for almost 2 years b4 i recently planted it in-ground.

I personally love to use dirt on pots. Because the lack of aeration on a heavy clay & prone to rootrot. I water this every 2 weeks. But if u use potting mix, most likely everyday is fine since it aerates well except u dnt have to water during the winter when soil is moist.

(I dont advise ppl to use dirt. What works for me may not work for u.  Because i did an experiment. Whenever i water this ST, i use compost tea & top dressing dried leaves and grass cuttings. Again dnt do this.)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 09, 2019, 02:29:57 PM
I used pumice, decomposed granite as a potting mix.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 02:32:28 PM
I used pumice, decomposed granite as a potting mix.

U shud be good to water it everyday since its getting warmer. But best if its in-ground. If rootstock is a turpentine high chances it will be grown droopy.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 02:42:49 PM
Nice ST Paul ! Sweet tart is one of those cultivars that work well w turpentine rootstock here in SoCal
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 02:57:23 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.

Lucky you didnít try those criollo mangos. They taste like a combo of milk of magnesia and cod liver oil yuuke!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 03:35:03 PM
Criollo is a monster rootstock but turpentine will grow as vigorous on some cultivars.

Yeah, there is a monster Corriente on the grounds of Atkins, it was full of fruits last time I was there. It looked like a Florida grown mature mango tree for its sheer size.

Sorry, I mixed up corriente with criollo, unless they are the same. Atkins has mature corriente tree.
How comparable is the corriente fruit comparable to?

I haven't tasted Corriente and wasn't able to buy because they were not ripe. Owner's son said they are very popular and can be eaten as green. They looked like slightly bigger than manila/ataulfo in size but in clusters.

Lucky you didnít try those criollo mangos. They taste like a combo of milk of magnesia and cod liver oil yuuke!

Sorry, I mixed up corriente with criollo, unless they are the same. Atkins has mature corriente tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. Iíve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 06:22:46 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. Iíve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.

SO corriente could mean it could be a manila, kent, ataulfo seedling with no particular variety?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 09, 2019, 06:42:16 PM
Corriente is the same as Criollo in Latin America .....which means: seedling of any and all varieties. Iíve seen that Atkin tree the fruit is garbage.

SO corriente could mean it could be a manila, kent, ataulfo seedling with no particular variety?

Thatís correct
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on April 09, 2019, 08:30:03 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 09:11:09 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

Itís behind the cashierís hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 09, 2019, 09:19:37 PM
As long as the tree looks healthy and is growing vigorously, it should make good rootstock. Many random mango seeds have grown well for me.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 09:24:03 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

Itís behind the cashierís hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)

Where did u get those long pots?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on April 09, 2019, 09:27:30 PM
Is this the Mango Tree at Atkins Nursery your talking about.

It's on the right side of the main entrance area as you drive in. Not sure if it is their property. I took this Photo several years ago

Johnny


(https://i.postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4/Large-Mango-Tree-at-Atkins-Nursery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtsDYwP4)

Itís behind the cashierís hut where they sell fruits at the back of the property. I brought it up because it could be a vigorous rootstock for grafting even better than Manila. The seedlings I bought from maddock are strong and vigorous.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv/393-E7000-87-E3-445-D-82-AB-18-AABE997-E3-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWCBXGLv)

Where did u get those long pots?

I bought them in long pots from Maddock nursery for $28 each. Unfortunately they donít sell the pots individually.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 09, 2019, 10:50:49 PM
Theses guys make and sell the tall pots
https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)



Those atkins rootstocks grow pretty good.  Healthy trees. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 09, 2019, 10:56:02 PM
Theses guys make and sell the tall pots
https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)



Those atkins rootstocks grow pretty good.  Healthy trees.

These wud be good for starting seedlings to develop taproot... thanks brad.


The lz u were selling on a long pot was  cp612r? Ty in advance
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on April 09, 2019, 11:09:28 PM
I have some TP815Rs, its a good medium sized pot.  Its a good one to start mango and avocado seeds.  The roots fill in that size pretty quickly.  They are at the bottom of that page, scroll down.

If you just want a few pots they will sell singles.  You just email them and they will send you a bill to your email.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on April 11, 2019, 02:00:26 AM
It's a little ugly, but I've had good luck with stacking cardboard half gallon milk containers (cut the bottom off of one and stick it in the other).  You get a tall container that avocados do great in, and when you plant you don't have to disturb the roots at all -- just put the whole thing in the planting hole, cut the bottom, slide it out from underneath, fill around with soil, and then slip the whole double-height container off the top.

Edited to add: mango seeds sometimes do well in these, and sometimes not.  Really big seeds don't fit, but smaller ones do well.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: OCchris1 on April 11, 2019, 02:07:43 AM
Even with the tall pot, I would pain the insides with MicroKote or something similar. Everything I've grown in MicroKoted pots has taken off like rocket ships. Zero root spin in these pots.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:13:18 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 11, 2019, 02:52:22 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 11, 2019, 03:20:31 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)

Let it fruit till its a size of a pea. Then u remove the pea-sized mango.


If u take out flower now. Chances are it will try to re-flower...

I know simon talked about this. Use the search button for a more descriptive post.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 11:26:39 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 11:28:10 AM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.

Thank you sir appreciate your help, I tried the search but it brought me to the last page of this post.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BonsaiBeast on April 11, 2019, 12:21:59 PM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)
Try the search function at the top of this thread or read the thread. Key words being "cut" and "flower".

Do you sit on this all day and troll all day long? man most unhelpful member I met in this group, get a life bud. It's a forum open for discussion.

Actually, you're going to want to search "troll" and "no life" for the answer to that question.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
lol How are your plants doing?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: BonsaiBeast on April 11, 2019, 02:18:37 PM
lol How are your plants doing?

They're still small of course haha, so is the way of the Garcinia.

But I got a few of them in the ground. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:23:10 PM
Tell me about it, I have a new trick recommended by a friend, I don't want to hijack this thread so I will message you about it if you are interested. I am currently experimenting with it early days..
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 11, 2019, 02:29:27 PM
For the blooms, just leave them for now as gozp mentioned and you can remove them when they are pea to marble size. Alternatively, if your average nightly lows are 62F or above, you can remove the blooms/fruit regardless of the size of the fruit. When you remove the blooms/fruit, cut below where the panicle started and above a node facing the direction where you want a future branch to be.

If the flower panicles becomes too heavy and starts to cause the stem to droop, you can cut about half the panicle off to relieve some of the weight.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ManVFruit on April 11, 2019, 02:51:34 PM
For the blooms, just leave them for now as gozp mentioned and you can remove them when they are pea to marble size. Alternatively, if your average nightly lows are 62F or above, you can remove the blooms/fruit regardless of the size of the fruit. When you remove the blooms/fruit, cut below where the panicle started and above a node facing the direction where you want a future branch to be.

If the flower panicles becomes too heavy and starts to cause the stem to droop, you can cut about half the panicle off to relieve some of the weight.

Simon

Thanks Simon, I think we live pretty close so far the nights are just below 60F, so I will wait a little longer in that case. I just did approach graft using manila rootstock that is the branch you see in the picture. I am trying to make a copy a of my Pina Colada and OS after reading about florida rootstocks in this post. I am hoping to visit brad in the coming months to pick up some more tips, I am new to mango ..
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 11, 2019, 08:05:42 PM
If anyone here has experience fruiting mangoes it is likely they have encountered internal breakdown issues, especially if applying nitrogen and potassium rich fertilizers. It is also likely that some experience salt burn issues in the summer time if you are growing in clay rich soil and irrigating with municipal Colorado River water.

Gypsum can help with both of these issues, and I have a source for free gypsum for pickup in the East County San Diego region.

If you are interested, send me a PM and I can give you the info, but the gypsum will only be available for the next few days, after that it will be gone.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Exoticfruits on April 13, 2019, 03:20:10 AM
Hello,

I just joined this site not too long ago and just wondering if you have a suggestion to cut off 1/2 of the 3 flower panicles or cut 1 or 2 panicles and just leave one? (pic enclosed)  This Cat Hoa Loc mango tree was planted a little over a year and is 5ft tall with skinny trunk. Last year I cut off the flowering at the top, hoping it will grow taller. But it didn't :( .
AVG temp in OC  is  57F  to 76F.
Thanks for your help.  Steven

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYm0PGmH/20190412-183339.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYm0PGmH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0Rwh8RD/20190412-183432.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0Rwh8RD)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 13, 2019, 11:55:20 AM
Those are big panicles and are weighing Dow the branches. You can remove 2/3 of each panicle. If you completely remove two panicles and leave one, the tree will likely re bloom beneath your cut.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Exoticfruits on April 13, 2019, 04:25:48 PM
Thank you Simon for your prompt reply.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: CA Hockey on April 14, 2019, 12:43:04 PM
My very young mango tree, should I cut it as soon as it flowers? need advice from our experienced local mango growers :

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv/Capture.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDqfBCWv)

Let it fruit till its a size of a pea. Then u remove the pea-sized mango.


If u take out flower now. Chances are it will try to re-flower...

I know simon talked about this. Use the search button for a more descriptive post.


Usually removing the flowers this early would result in new flowers, but it's been so hit that my trees are mainly pushing out all leaves. It may be worth a shot if you are impatient

I personally would wait... but I have a large orchard to obsess over and can find lots of other plants to distract me.

If I had to stare at that set of flowers every day I probably would pinch some off and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 14, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Pinching flowers at this time will give you mix results. Youíll be lucky if you get 50/50 ( bloom new growth) even so the ratio of fruits setting is very low.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: jtnguyen333 on April 17, 2019, 03:30:30 PM
Is this the right way to pinch off flower?  according to the video, he pinch off the entire panicle, 2 to 3 leaves below it. (skip to 2:40 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQ3GnBLjYw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQ3GnBLjYw)

-James
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:11:49 PM
I recently planted 16/1 mango in-ground recently.
As u can see i put 25 gal pot and torned the bottom pot to encourage roots not to go through the sideways (at least for the pot's coverage).

It would be interesting to see how it grows year by year.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjjJ13VG/20190421-095158.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjjJ13VG)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:27:27 PM
Taralay on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/Vrmj28D6/20190421-095142.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vrmj28D6)

Guava on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/R3c7PF1y/20190421-171609.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3c7PF1y)

Os on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/kB4yn79R/20190421-171836.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kB4yn79R)

Kathy on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/LqdkBfPj/20190421-171843.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LqdkBfPj)

M4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/SnY7MVny/20190421-171848.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnY7MVny)

Pina colada on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/kD7cpxpc/20190421-171856.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kD7cpxpc)

Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBNkBbCh/20190421-171911.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBNkBbCh)


Phoenix on turp(pot)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bsB9r4NC/20190421-171941.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bsB9r4NC)

Pina colada on turp (pot)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZDNWJ0v/20190421-172044.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZDNWJ0v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on April 21, 2019, 08:31:18 PM
Great job Paul. Perfect example of what cultivars work on turpentine. All of our guavas died in turpentine on on Manila type rootstock (carabao) itís vigorous
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:35:05 PM
Coco cream seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz/20190421-171703.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz)


Honey kiss seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs/20190421-171707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs)

 2 e4 on left to mid, right pina colada seedlings

(https://i.postimg.cc/t771JJZb/20190421-171712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t771JJZb)

Orange sherbet turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD/20190421-172032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD)

E4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/9w4zng50/20190421-172037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9w4zng50)

Honey kiss turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw/20190421-172104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw)

Sweet tart turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54/20190421-172113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54)

Lemon zest on carabao

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXfM31dV/20190421-172124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXfM31dV)

Peach cobbler(formerly 2in1) on manila -2years old pineapple pleasure graft died

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb/20190421-172132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb)


Pugged lemon meringue on manila - did not like the way ppk was growing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt/20190421-172148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt)

Corriente with some grafts

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ/20190421-172159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:36:48 PM
Great job Paul. Perfect example of what cultivars work on turpentine. All of our guavas died in turpentine on on Manila type rootstock (carabao) itís vigorous

I had 2 buttercream, 2 guavas from Lynn that died on me last uear on turpentines. So far so good. Some turpentines work here in my experience. However, manila or some specific seedlings work better than turps.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on April 21, 2019, 08:42:46 PM
Its very tough to grow mangoes especially in my area. A few branches were infected with antrancnose.

My interventions was to cut/ remove the infected part. Scrub neem oil and turmeric powder. Then seal it with iv organics paint.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on April 21, 2019, 11:46:43 PM
Its very tough to grow mangoes especially in my area. A few branches were infected with antrancnose.

My interventions was to cut/ remove the infected part. Scrub neem oil and turmeric powder. Then seal it with iv organics paint.

Turmeric powder?  Interesting -- never heard of that being useful to deal with plant infections.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ATNNavy on April 29, 2019, 05:47:27 PM
Hello all,

New to the Forum. Here are a few late afternoon pictures. Tree was bought from TopTropical in Apr. 2017. Don't really know to much about specific growing techniques. Hope to learn from you everyone here. Thanks for your time. Be easy on the feedback and criticism on current pictures posted.

Respectfully,
Noriega

Coconut Cream on mangifera.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kk94Z8kX/IMG-5727.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Kk94Z8kX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/236V0hMC/IMG-5729.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/236V0hMC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8fjcsgM7/IMG-5730.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8fjcsgM7)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ATNNavy on May 06, 2019, 09:20:08 AM
I wanted to get some advice on pruning times and upkeep? I read most of thread up to current. Also, right now tree has white grubs. I'm thinking about putting "milky spore" but scared to commit. Don't really know side affects for allergy or will cause it to bring other pests? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on June 12, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
Coco cream seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz/20190421-171703.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdQmF2qz)


Honey kiss seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs/20190421-171707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzvGXZGs)

 2 e4 on left to mid, right pina colada seedlings

(https://i.postimg.cc/t771JJZb/20190421-171712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t771JJZb)

Orange sherbet turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD/20190421-172032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YK6pdrD)

E4 on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/9w4zng50/20190421-172037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9w4zng50)

Honey kiss turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw/20190421-172104.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0r3zwvDw)

Sweet tart turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54/20190421-172113.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXKrgQ54)

Lemon zest on carabao

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXfM31dV/20190421-172124.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXfM31dV)

Peach cobbler(formerly 2in1) on manila -2years old pineapple pleasure graft died

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb/20190421-172132.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNHN1YLb)


Pugged lemon meringue on manila - did not like the way ppk was growing.

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt/20190421-172148.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBVxrgdt)

Corriente with some grafts

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ/20190421-172159.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwZQNmQ)

may I ask where dis you get the honey kiss from? been looking for a honey seedling. Thanks!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on June 21, 2019, 01:52:48 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 21, 2019, 01:59:31 PM
You can plant several close together and keep the winners.  Im doing some of that here.  Plant 2 or 3 trees in a hole and strongest survives etc.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on June 21, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
you would  plant multiple seeds to pick the strongest seedling but not because fear of failed graft.....once you pick the strong one and let it grow..... top work it and  multiple new branches should emerge graft a  couple and you should have a couple branches to spare.   I got lucky all 3 took but even if it didnt you see I had back up. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/cgzvW18X/received-1903985876575567.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgzvW18X)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf/received-286408538672712.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ln11HPDf)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on June 21, 2019, 07:45:07 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay

You wouldnt have to start over as long as the rootstock is healthy.it would likely send out new branches somewhere below the failed graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 21, 2019, 09:27:00 PM
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay

Hey Clay,

I plant lots of seedlings close together, about 1-2 feet apart and select the strongest ones to graft. Ive been doing some experimenting and itís really best to plant the seedlings and let them grow for several years until they get a thick trunk with nice scaffold branches before topworking.

If scions are limited or you donít want the troubles of topworking a tree or bark grafting, then you can graft the small saplings at about 1 month old or you can do epicotyl grafting which gives me near 100% success but your grafted  sapling will flower and slow down itís growth rate significantly. It is much easier to do a single graft compared to the multiple grafts required for topworking a tree but the growth is significantly slower.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 22, 2019, 05:18:18 PM
Hi everyone,

I finally moved to Dana Point and I am looking for a mango that does well here in a container. It seems like Pickering might be the best bet? How would nam doc mai do? Or is there another variety you recommend?

I might be able to put it in the ground and espalier it against a brick wall. That would help keep it warmer by radiating heat off the wall, but that area only gets about 6 hours of direct soon a day. I was thinking if going a pomegranate there instead.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 22, 2019, 10:09:28 PM
pickering is a good choice if you want to keep it in a pot but mangos grow really slow here and I wouldnít be too concerned about selecting a condo type mango. Even a vigorous grower like Sweet Tart will be kept in check if itís in a pot. The yearly flowering/fruiting caused by our cold weather significantly slows down  the growth rate.

Nam Doc Mai is another good choice but again I would probably go with Sweet Tart just because it will establish faster and I much prefer the flavor of ST.

I recommend against planting Condo type Mangos in SoCal unless you really want a tiny tree that will hold very few fruit.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 22, 2019, 11:53:07 PM
Thank you Simon. Sweet tart looks really interesting. I do like mango with a little spiciness. Is there one like that you recommend?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 23, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
Have you tried any of the Indian Mango varieties like Kesar? Kesar has Indian resin spice and sets fruit for me even though I have lots of fungus in my yard.

There are other varieties with spice like Carrie that also sets fruit well in SoCal, not sure about your exact location though.

I would not recommend Ice Cream because it grows too slowly and gets very chlorotic when itís cool.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 23, 2019, 04:47:06 PM
I just moved to Dana point up on the hill about a mile from the ocean. I have not tried any mangoes yet since I came from Seattle. I have room (not really hah) for one tree. Trying to find the right one.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on June 23, 2019, 06:10:42 PM
I just moved to Dana point up on the hill about a mile from the ocean. I have not tried any mangoes yet since I came from Seattle. I have room (not really hah) for one tree. Trying to find the right one.

That's going to be a tough location -- it's really cold for mangos in Dana Point both in the winter (deep, cold water offshore so lower lows than surrounding areas) and summer (marine layer, coastal breeze).  Not that the trees won't grow, but it might be tough to get fruit to set and ripen.  Still worth a shot, but maybe you want a cultivar that has small fruits and is known for setting in colder areas.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 23, 2019, 06:59:37 PM
Or maybe a greenhouse could also help. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 26, 2019, 12:54:43 AM
Or maybe a greenhouse could also help.

Any suggestions? And greenhouse isn't an option unfortunately. No room :(
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 26, 2019, 01:40:53 AM
If you are not dead set on a mango, cherimoya should do well there.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 26, 2019, 12:39:35 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: barath on June 27, 2019, 02:30:23 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 28, 2019, 12:18:14 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 11:12:05 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.

I got a lot of stuff in my backyard. First year here so things are relatively young, although I spent more money to buy older trees and vines in some cases. I have: 4 different types of passion fruit (red rover, frederick, banana, and purple possum), 2 low chill cherries (mini royal and royal lee),  strawberry tree (Muntingia calabura), blue java banana, mulberry, hardy kiwi, white nectarine, nectaplum, aprium, 200+ strawberries, Australian finger lime, mandarins, 20+ varieties of figs, 4 types of pomegranates, raspberry, blackberry, logan berry, blueberries, 3 types of ground cherries, 2 types of giant gooseberries, and various veggies.

For some reason, I am really fixated on growing a mango. I love a good mango. It might be my favorite fruit. But store bought ones are just so meh.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 11:14:37 AM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
VillaseŮor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on June 29, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
Just buy a manila seedling tree (not grafted) and let it grow for many years.  Once it reaches a mature size then graft it with top tier varieties.  Don't bother planting grafted trees IMO theres not enough heat units in your area and you will be wasting years on all the flowers it will produce before its ready to hold fruit.  That close to the ocean and you will probably only get foliar flushes on a grafted tree for a few months a year.  Planting a seedling tree will completely avoid having your tree waste energy on flowering before it its ready to carry fruit.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 29, 2019, 12:24:32 PM
I agree with Brad, weíve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom itís first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you donít want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 29, 2019, 01:52:35 PM
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html)
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html (https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html)

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
VillaseŮor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?
I would ask him about his opinion on growing a mango in prime real estate for a cherimoya.

The La Verne 'Manila' trees are seedlings of manila, and therefore unreliable sources of genetics, they don't necessarily come true to seed, so there may be variance.

For any guarantees of a variety you should graft a tree, but as suggested, some polyembryonic varieties come true(ish) to seed.

You can use the Gary Zill method of crushing the leaves of a juvenile mango seedling to smell the sap and compare it to the dominant aroma of the parent mango, and then eliminate the rest of the sprouts. This method is currently being used to help select true to type seedlings from polyembryonic varieties.

I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 03:12:03 PM
I agree with Brad, weíve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom itís first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you donít want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon

I'm game to try grafting. I'm growing some brown turkey fig rootstock to graft various col de dame varieties on.

Where do you recommend to buy the sweet tart and Manila seedling?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 29, 2019, 03:14:21 PM
Quote
I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.

I have never tried a cherimoya before. I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 29, 2019, 04:16:07 PM
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, Iíll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on June 30, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, I’ll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon

Would it be advisable to buy a 3 gallon sweet tart from top tropicals?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on June 30, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Atropicalfruitforum.com+%22top+tropicals%22

There's been some good reviews, but also some terrible ones.
Something about rampant mislabeling of trees.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 30, 2019, 05:24:26 PM
Iíve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

Itís better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 01, 2019, 12:12:55 PM
Iíve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

Itís better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon

I have very little room for a planted tree. Maybe 1 or 2 spots if I remove other bushes. I was going to attempt these in containers. I was thinking to plant the LaVern Manilla in ground as my rootstock and getting the Sweet tart for a container. I have extra space that is concrete where I have a lot of my potted figs.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 02, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
Simon, what would be a lazy routine to fertilize seedlings please, I read an article about half a cup of ammonium sulfate every month, would you do that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 02, 2019, 10:58:34 PM
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 03, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon

Thank you Simon. I got a Sweet Tart and will wait for the LeVerne mangoes to come to Home Depot to experiment with grafting.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: TBedeezy on July 10, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
Spent the last few hours reading up on this thread and feel a lot more comfortable with my plan of planting seeds and letting them develop. So much helpful information as our climate is a bit unique for mango trees. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 10, 2019, 06:17:32 PM
Hi Simon,
Iíve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on July 10, 2019, 08:50:22 PM
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 17, 2019, 07:15:56 PM
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.

I have a couple Alphonso seedlings and I was wondering if it's worth letting grow without grafting to see if I could get a decent close variety, I bet it's common in India, do you know how close to an Alphonso the seedling will be? :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 19, 2019, 03:45:52 PM
Hi Simon,
Iíve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.

Thanks everyone,

Iím glad members are trying out some of these techniques I mention in this thread.

FV Fruit Freak,

When I plant my mango seeds, I keep them in full sun so that the soil heats up faster which makes them sprout faster. Also, by planting them in full sun, you wonít have to acclimate them to full sun.

If your seedlings are currently in the shade, you will have to gradually acclimate them to full sun by putting them in part sun and then gradually giving them more and more full sun. Cloudy days are great for acclimating seedlings. Protect them from the sun especially between 11 am and 2pm when the sun is directly overhead.

Alphonso is Monoembryonic and and I have no idea how it was selected. The more rounds of selection a variety has gone through, the more set the traits are. With re arrangement of the chromosomes from sexual reproduction, there is a good chance of getting something completely different tasting than compared to the Aphonso.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 20, 2019, 09:08:20 PM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Mango_Seed on July 20, 2019, 09:12:00 PM
Why are turpentine mangos used in Florida for rootstock to begin with? I don't know, maybe because it hot outside working in the grove & you drink the juice out of 30 of them everyday? With all those seeds left over you might as well plant them.

I did however find this study on rootstocks from down under that might be of interest to you:

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/43/6/article-p1720.xml

I saw a post about turpentine not having a big tap root & and a video about air layering not being popular in Florida because you need a tap root with all the hurricanes. Not sure what to make of that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 21, 2019, 12:23:44 AM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

A picture will help to diagnose the problem. Did you damage the roots at all? If itís getting wrinkly because of lack of water, it can spring back pretty quickly.

If your seedlings are getting a dark lesion close to the soil surface at the interface of the sprout and the roots, you may be using too rich a potting soil. Try something that has more inorganic matter like sand or pumice. You can also look for a good fast draining soil mix or cactus mix if you tend to overwater.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 21, 2019, 12:31:29 AM
Why are turpentine mangos used in Florida for rootstock to begin with? I don't know, maybe because it hot outside working in the grove & you drink the juice out of 30 of them everyday? With all those seeds left over you might as well plant them.

I did however find this study on rootstocks from down under that might be of interest to you:

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/43/6/article-p1720.xml

I saw a post about turpentine not having a big tap root & and a video about air layering not being popular in Florida because you need a tap root with all the hurricanes. Not sure what to make of that?

Turpentine rootstock works excellent for Florida. It is adaptable to high salinity, some standing water and high fruit production. It just doesnít perform as well in SoCal.

I have a couple threads discussing Mango rootstocks and there are rootstock selection that are productive as small, medium and large canopy size trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 21, 2019, 07:13:12 PM
Hi Simon,
Iíve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.

Thanks everyone,

Iím glad members are trying out some of these techniques I mention in this thread.

FV Fruit Freak,

When I plant my mango seeds, I keep them in full sun so that the soil heats up faster which makes them sprout faster. Also, by planting them in full sun, you wonít have to acclimate them to full sun.

If your seedlings are currently in the shade, you will have to gradually acclimate them to full sun by putting them in part sun and then gradually giving them more and more full sun. Cloudy days are great for acclimating seedlings. Protect them from the sun especially between 11 am and 2pm when the sun is directly overhead.

Alphonso is Monoembryonic and and I have no idea how it was selected. The more rounds of selection a variety has gone through, the more set the traits are. With re arrangement of the chromosomes from sexual reproduction, there is a good chance of getting something completely different tasting than compared to the Aphonso.

Simon

You da man, THANKS Simon!!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 22, 2019, 08:40:27 AM
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

A picture will help to diagnose the problem. Did you damage the roots at all? If itís getting wrinkly because of lack of water, it can spring back pretty quickly.

If your seedlings are getting a dark lesion close to the soil surface at the interface of the sprout and the roots, you may be using too rich a potting soil. Try something that has more inorganic matter like sand or pumice. You can also look for a good fast draining soil mix or cactus mix if you tend to overwater.

Simon

Please note the darkening at the base, and the rotting of the embryo. It's Turpentine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59CZd8gq/IMG-1190.jpg)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ricshaw on July 22, 2019, 10:18:34 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?

YouTube
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 22, 2019, 10:58:02 AM
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?

Im currently starting a batch of ataulfo and kent seeds. Ive never had the success (as of now I have root growth from 100% of the seeds in about 7 days) with other methods. Using the plastic wrap is more useful because the inorganic material wont mold. Ive done the moist paper towel and it works but ive had lots of trouble with mold.  I got the idea from
https://youtu.be/Rwfn5BmaLdw . If you are doing 1 or 2 seeds you might want to follow his method completely but if you are going a lot of seeds and space is an issue the method im using might be better.


Materials
Mango with viable seed (has not been cold treated or sterilized) my seeds were hot water treated from mexico
Hydrogen Peroxide
Water
Spray bottle
Bowl
Ziploc sandwich bag
Box

Procedure:
1) remove mango seed from husk
2) combine 1:1 ratio of hydrogen peroxide (3% solution) with water in a bowl
3) add mango seed allow 24hrs
4) rinse mango seed in water
5) take plastic wrap and create a ring. Fit ring over the mango seed.
6) take plastic wrap and a 1. 5” diameter length that covers the bottom of the sandwich bag
7) lay length of plastic wrap at the bottom of sandwich bag
8 ) lay mango seed with plastic ring on the plastic wrap taking care to orient the seed correctly
9) spray with water a couple times.
10) seal bag and put in box
11) close box to keep out of sunlight
12) keep in a warm place with no sunlight/light
13) check them after 3 days to check for rot and any initial root development the bags should not show condensation

You should have root growth by 10 days.



Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 22, 2019, 11:02:25 AM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 11:40:29 AM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)

Do you take them out of their husks?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 22, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y/20190722-081147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HRSm74Y)
Going by the pic he does.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv/20190722-081505.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyMxmqcv)

Do you take them out of their husks?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on July 22, 2019, 12:40:19 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 12:43:42 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 22, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.

Almost all my Kent seeds from Costco that have been planted over the last month or so have sprouted, FYI.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Clay on July 22, 2019, 02:27:48 PM
Yes of course, theres no husk in that photo.  Eat the mango, dehusk, toss in pot of dirt.

Thanks, I have 6 organic mangoes from Costco. Just checked and they are kent from mexico that were hot water treated. Hopefully they should work.

I got the Kent mangos at Costco and have sprouted four of them in the last couple of weeks. It takes about 7 - 10 days for the shoots to emerge. I did wrap them in wet paper towels and let them sit in a ZipLoc bag on the kitchen counter for several days first, until I saw the little root tail starting to form. Then I planted them and the sprouts came up a few days later. The first to sprout are nearly a foot tall now. I plan to use them to practice learning to graft.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 22, 2019, 02:48:02 PM
I'm game to try grafting. I'm growing some brown turkey fig rootstock to graft various col de dame varieties on.

Where do you recommend to buy the sweet tart and Manila seedling?

mango and fig are total difference challenge to grow in your area. Listen to us when we say don't waste your time growing grafted mango from 3 ft pots; been there done that. Buy seedling or grow from seeds such as Kent fruits sold in July, August. Kent seedling will grow fast and vigorous, and perfect for grafting when 8 - 10 ft tall in 4 years.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 22, 2019, 07:14:25 PM
I found a Manila mango Tuesday at Home Depot and will grow out some Kent seeds as well.

(https://i.postimg.cc/KR7DLB0n/20190722-152725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KR7DLB0n)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2nFyGHL/20190722-152732.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2nFyGHL)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on July 23, 2019, 06:21:28 PM
I used to de-husk the seeds , placed in bag, 85F oven and all of that, then started the germinated seedlings in pots. Now I just do this directly on ground where I want a mango tree permanently planted: In 80 to 90F summer plant a geranium for protection from strong sun, then place a seed or 2 (not de-husked) on the ground (not in or under) shaded by the geranium (the roly poly bugs or others will eat the de-husked tender seed), then cover the seed with stuffs from compost bin, leaves,  or fresh kitchen trash, 3 or 4" high pile.  Keep the pile moisted. In couple weeks a strong vigorous mango seedling, and in a few years if the fruits are not worth to keep  then I graft.

Seedling directly on soil grows faster than in pot.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 23, 2019, 10:47:22 PM
I damaged 2 of the 3 seeds trying to get them out. I assume these are too damaged to germinate?


(https://i.postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5/20190723-185532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH/20190723-185534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw/20190723-185548.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW/20190723-185551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs/20190723-185558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 23, 2019, 11:23:57 PM
Iíve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. Iíd just plant them and see what happens.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 24, 2019, 12:33:19 AM
Iíve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. Iíd just plant them and see what happens.

Simon

Thanks Simon. Already planted 😄
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on July 24, 2019, 08:05:25 AM
Iíve sprouted plenty of damaged seeds. Iíd just plant them and see what happens.

Simon

I concur, especially when the dents are not on the side where the root and seedling would emerge.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: V on July 27, 2019, 01:58:31 PM
This is a great thread, very informative!

A couple of weeks ago I got two La Verne Manila seedling trees.
The potting soil La Verne uses for mango trees is very bad. My two trees had pure wood shavings in the bottom 80% of the pot. The pots were topped with wood chips and some traces of sand.
There were very little roots in the wood shavings and they were all black, probably rotting due to the lack of oxygen.
I discarded all of the potting soil and planted one of the trees in the ground and re-potted another one with a good potting mix.

Yesterday, I also planted two de-husked Kent mango seeds in pots.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 05:00:53 AM
Honey kiss on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/PNzvPHjH/20190729-205358.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNzvPHjH)

Pina colada on turpentine

(https://i.postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH/20190729-223134.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6W9Y7cg/20190729-223459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6W9Y7cg)




Stakes werent needed before it fruited. Now that theres more weight, stakes are needed.


Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 05:08:04 AM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Goyo626 on July 30, 2019, 09:38:01 AM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Do you think this person watered too often or not enough?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: FV Fruit Freak on July 30, 2019, 10:51:55 AM
I damaged 2 of the 3 seeds trying to get them out. I assume these are too damaged to germinate?


(https://i.postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5/20190723-185532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHL0XZS5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH/20190723-185534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJvYbHGH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw/20190723-185548.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmhRz9Fw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW/20190723-185551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNsYXqtW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs/20190723-185558.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BjRVfyMs)

You donít need to damage the husks by using a knife to pry them open. Just find the ďfiberyĒ part that runs  along the length of the husk, is you use your fingernails (or butter knife) and scrape along that fiber, you can usually find a small opening in the husk. Once I find that small opening/hole, I can usually jut pull the husk apart and open with my fingers without ever having to insert a knife into the husk.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: boxturtle on July 30, 2019, 11:10:16 AM
anything you can do if scion doesn't push?  I grafted it almost 3 months now.  It's nice and green still but seems like it's just chilling. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on July 30, 2019, 12:46:10 PM

You donít need to damage the husks by using a knife to pry them open. Just find the ďfiberyĒ part that runs  along the length of the husk, is you use your fingernails (or butter knife) and scrape along that fiber, you can usually find a small opening in the husk. Once I find that small opening/hole, I can usually jut pull the husk apart and open with my fingers without ever having to insert a knife into the husk.

I use a butter knife to scrap all the pulp off and try to pry it open. I guess I will have to look more closely for an opening. Can't seem to find one. I have been using a new method of taking some vice grips on the edges to squeeze and create an opening along the edge then using the butter knife to split open.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on July 30, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Hey, you knew what I was going to say before I said it! At least you know what youíre getting yourself into.

Mangos naturally drop a lot of fruit and under watering could actually concentrate the flavors so maybe what your friend did, or didnít do, was a blessing in disguise.

Nice selection of trees. Please keep us updated on how they taste!

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sammmy on July 30, 2019, 05:12:39 PM
Those trees look like they are ready for phomopsis.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on July 30, 2019, 06:46:37 PM
Buttercream on turp

(https://i.postimg.cc/mtCXctrD/20190724-174111.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mtCXctrD)

Sweetart on turp
(https://i.postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y/20190725-011612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JyDBnB1Y)

Lemon zest on manila

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8/20190726-183519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7HbvzJ8)




I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Hey, you knew what I was going to say before I said it! At least you know what youíre getting yourself into.

Mangos naturally drop a lot of fruit and under watering could actually concentrate the flavors so maybe what your friend did, or didnít do, was a blessing in disguise.

Nice selection of trees. Please keep us updated on how they taste!

Simon

I wish they watered every darn day. LOL. We were hitting constant 100+ when I was out of the country.

I will be bring all varieties at Franks next mango tasting.


Here is a photo that i Uploaded last april of my pina colada


(https://i.postimg.cc/V0dN3d1M/Screenshot-20190730-154058-Chrome.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0dN3d1M)


Leaves as of now are lushier green than it was last Aprils thats with holding fruits.




(https://i.postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH/20190729-223134.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bS8PK4CH)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 01, 2019, 01:27:17 AM
Kathy holding 3 fruits before i left it had 13 holding.


(https://i.postimg.cc/R3G8vd1t/20190731-222417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3G8vd1t)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 12:10:55 AM
I got this beautiful Pickering on Friday. What tips can anyone give me on container mangoes in SoCal? I was going to put it in a 10 gallon fabric pot and use BX Promix (https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-bx-mycorrhizae/ (https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-bx-mycorrhizae/)) with osmocote. Will that work well for a mango?

(https://i.postimg.cc/yD4F6qwb/pickering.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yD4F6qwb)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 12:47:17 AM
Youíve got the right idea. Give it a fast draining soil mix with slow release fertilizer. Potted Mangos will perform much better if given occasional applications of minors and trace, especially Iron, Zinc, Magnesium and Manganese.

Donít over pot it, put it in a container that is slightly larger than its root mass. Once it fills in that pot with roots, up pot again with a slightly larger pot again.

In SoCal, mangos do most their growing in the the heat of the summer so you need to maximize growth between June-September by ensuring they are properly fertilized.

Right now is prime vegetative growing season for Mangos but since you just received your tree, you have to be very careful with over fertilizing. If you donít disturb the roots much, you can use a mild fertilizer but if the plant was rootbound and you have to trim the roots, donít fertilize it until it settles in.

This time of year, Mangos are very resilient with very little signs of diseases because the heat pushes growth and the growth out competes the fungal diseases and die back.

Now is also a great time to graft.

Unlike growing Mangos in Florida and other prime mango growing areas, you want your branches as vertical as possible.

One of the big mistakes SoCal mango growers do is to bend their branches horizontally. Horizontal growth will tend to flower and we donít want that for young non established trees. Vertical growth has a slight less tendency to flower but only slightly. Everything you can do to tilt the growth towards vegetative growth instead of blooms will be that much better for your tree.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 01:01:17 AM
Youíve got the right idea. Give it a fast draining soil mix with slow release fertilizer. Potted Mangos will perform much better if given occasional applications of minors and trace, especially Iron, Zinc, Magnesium and Manganese.

Donít over pot it, put it in a container that is slightly larger than its root mass. Once it fills in that pot with roots, up pot again with a slightly larger pot again.

In SoCal, mangos do most their growing in the the heat of the summer so you need to maximize growth between June-September by ensuring they are properly fertilized.

Right now is prime vegetative growing season for Mangos but since you just received your tree, you have to be very careful with over fertilizing. If you donít disturb the roots much, you can use a mild fertilizer but if the plant was rootbound and you have to trim the roots, donít fertilize it until it settles in.

This time of year, Mangos are very resilient with very little signs of diseases because the heat pushes growth and the growth out competes the fungal diseases and die back.

Now is also a great time to graft.

Unlike growing Mangos in Florida and other prime mango growing areas, you want your branches as vertical as possible.

One of the big mistakes SoCal mango growers do is to bend their branches horizontally. Horizontal growth will tend to flower and we donít want that for young non established trees. Vertical growth has a slight less tendency to flower but only slightly. Everything you can do to tilt the growth towards vegetative growth instead of blooms will be that much better for your tree.

Simon

I have 5 gallon containers I can use now. It would be *maybe* twice the size of the rootball. I also have some Dyna Gro I have been using on other plants: https://dyna-gro.com/product/liquid-grow/ I could use that now as well. And some worm tea as well.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 01:23:13 AM
The 5 gallon should be perfect. You might have to re pot in a month or two but it will grow better than growing directly in a giant pot. The worm casting tea will be great. Wait until you see the roots before using the Dyna Gro.

You can pot your tree and if the roots are fine and you donít see any wilting about a week or two after potting, it should be safe to use fertilizer. If your tree is showing any signs of wilting, do not fertilize.

Since you just received your tree, you should gradually acclimate it to full sun.


Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 04, 2019, 02:01:27 AM
The 5 gallon should be perfect. You might have to re pot in a month or two but it will grow better than growing directly in a giant pot. The worm casting tea will be great. Wait until you see the roots before using the Dyna Gro.

You can pot your tree and if the roots are fine and you donít see any wilting about a week or two after potting, it should be safe to use fertilizer. If your tree is showing any signs of wilting, do not fertilize.

Since you just received your tree, you should gradually acclimate it to full sun.


Simon

Thank you for the feedback. I will up-pot tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rnguyen on August 04, 2019, 10:02:55 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt/7-CA7-A2-FD-2417-43-F7-9-DD1-7988-D12870-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt)

Should I be thinning down the number of fruit?  I have about 25 mangoes.  The tree is about 6 feet with most of the fruit on the maha chanok graft.  The other is Carrie.  I recently grafted honey kiss on one branch, if youíre wondering where all the vegetation went.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on August 04, 2019, 01:40:46 PM
With all the energy being pushed into the new scion, there's not going to be much left for the fruit. Or if the fruit is taking all the energy, then there won't be much left for the scion.

Look at it this way, the leaves that were removed are your energy source, and the fruit is the scions are energy users. I would remove all the fruit, because without sufficient vegetation to produce sugars, the fruit will not be all that impressive anyway.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 04, 2019, 11:37:20 PM
Ideally, thinning should occur when the fruit are much smaller, like marble to thumb size.  Some of your fruit look like they are more than half grown in which case you should keep the larger fruit and remove the runts.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: alangr088 on August 05, 2019, 01:30:45 AM
I had this scenario you are going thru RNGuyen. I was waiting for late July to remove all the fruit from my Manila seedling. I removed all the fruit (to get vegetative growth) and a grafting I did in April of PPK just came to life which I thought was dead. Pretty crazy how it lasted such a long time without any activity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz/AA910235-63-CA-4652-A254-22-E6965769-D9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangomanic12 on August 05, 2019, 11:25:11 AM
Rick i would listen to Oolie, remove all the fruit. If you want any vegetative growth next year....i would.
I think your tree is too small to hold all that fruit. I'm interested to see a pic of that tree next year at this time. If it grows great for you, if it doesn't lesson learned.
Let the tree fill out more before you let it hold fruit.


Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaxs on August 05, 2019, 01:49:05 PM
Potted up my Pickering today:


(https://i.postimg.cc/dhddJypK/mango.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhddJypK)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 05, 2019, 06:26:35 PM
The Pickering looks really nice. I forgot to mention that if youíre using new potting soil that already has added nutrients/fertilizer, there is no need to fertilize, usually for 1-2 months depending on how much you water.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: RodneyS on August 05, 2019, 07:31:22 PM
I had this scenario you are going thru RNGuyen. I was waiting for late July to remove all the fruit from my Manila seedling. I removed all the fruit (to get vegetative growth) and a grafting I did in April of PPK just came to life which I thought was dead. Pretty crazy how it lasted such a long time without any activity.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz/AA910235-63-CA-4652-A254-22-E6965769-D9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcLNhJSz)

How much of a brown color did you see in the scion?  I have a peach cobbler that's turning brown.  Gives me hope and may delay me from grafting anew underneath the older graft
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on August 05, 2019, 09:49:34 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt/7-CA7-A2-FD-2417-43-F7-9-DD1-7988-D12870-DB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKz7M9Wt)

Should I be thinning down the number of fruit?  I have about 25 mangoes.  The tree is about 6 feet with most of the fruit on the maha chanok graft.  The other is Carrie.  I recently grafted honey kiss on one branch, if youíre wondering where all the vegetation went.

Thanks.

Isn't Maha fruits starting all green and they turned to red/purple about a month before riping? I would pick off the smaller and deformed fruits. What rootstock you have here?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Rnguyen on August 10, 2019, 03:28:23 PM
Thanks Simon, Sapote, Oolie, alangr088, mangomanic12 for your advice.  I went ahead and took off all fruit.  The new graft is pushing well and I'm getting vegetative growth on the existing grafts.  I'm looking forward to next year.

Sapote - it's a laverne tree so probably manilla.



Rick i would listen to Oolie, remove all the fruit. If you want any vegetative growth next year....i would.
I think your tree is too small to hold all that fruit. I'm interested to see a pic of that tree next year at this time. If it grows great for you, if it doesn't lesson learned.
Let the tree fill out more before you let it hold fruit.


Mike
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 03:40:39 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: alangr088 on August 10, 2019, 08:47:25 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)

Aside from these trees being too young to hold fruit and the growth getting stunted...is there any other negatives? Can the tree possibly just die due to exhaustion or anything like that?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 10:22:41 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR/20190809-154827.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXjZ8gPR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKV05nXN/20190809-204745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKV05nXN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9/20190809-210112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRcPz3m9)

Aside from these trees being too young to hold fruit and the growth getting stunted...is there any other negatives? Can the tree possibly just die due to exhaustion or anything like that?

There is a high possibliity it could get stunted or for worst die.

However, i have been feeding my trees with heavy organic materials to lessen its chance to get stunted or even die.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 10:24:44 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/1Vt0nLqC/20190810-191506.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1Vt0nLqC)


I have about 15 sweet tarts on a turpentine roootstock  & i dont like the way its growing. After i harvest my sweet tarts, i will be pugging my treee for a better symmetrical growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 10, 2019, 10:43:45 PM
Iíve seen multiple examples of people letting their trees hold too much fruit when young and many of the trees have died. If you fertilize properly and donít overwater in Winter, the tree can easily survive.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 10, 2019, 11:07:26 PM
Iíve seen multiple examples of people letting their trees hold too much fruit when young and many of the trees have died. If you fertilize properly and donít overwater in Winter, the tree can easily survive.

Simon


I concur 100%.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 10, 2019, 11:31:30 PM
Don't Let young mango trees hold fruit. Most people want immediate gratification but success is for those that are tolerant and willing to wait.

In California, we have slow and poor growth as it is why give the young tree early stress of production? 

Be Patient. So many impatient growers.

Johnny
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 11, 2019, 01:07:46 AM
Don't Let young mango trees hold fruit. Most people want immediate gratification but success is for those that are tolerant and willing to wait.

In California, we have slow and poor growth as it is why give the young tree early stress of production? 

Be Patient. So many impatient growers.

Johnny

I like to keep my trees small by letting them fruit and high possibility of them gettng stunted.

We shall see, im conducting an experiment on nutrients based on plant needs.

I'll post photos when i harvest all my fruits & on late fall.

Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: gozp on August 12, 2019, 09:52:04 PM
No caption needed. 😂

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2DkfmkK/Screenshot-20190812-185044-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2DkfmkK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKSBss6S/20190812-184653.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKSBss6S)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: hawkfish007 on August 13, 2019, 09:32:45 PM
IMO mangoes do exceptionally well during summer in Southern California whether in pots or in ground regardless of rootstock. It is the week long low 30s that get them. Here are my M4 in ground and buttercream in pot  exploding  :) They were originally in 3 gallon planted early June.

(https://i.postimg.cc/N93GQ0MP/C127-C2-C4-423-D-451-E-B4-E6-837079-AB7-CD2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N93GQ0MP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMm25y6v/E44-C83-E5-B4-BC-439-C-B15-D-AE0-DCF07-F22-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMm25y6v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 15, 2019, 01:52:11 PM
Yes, all Mangos should be exploding with growth at this time of year regardless of rootstock. If you havenít fertilized much yet, now is a good time to fertilize and push growth. No need to worry about excess Nitrogen inhibiting flower initiation in Winter. Now is a great time for minors and trace minerals as well, if itís not already in your fertilizer.


If your tree is holding fruit, donít give too much fertilizer at once, especially on hot days because your fruit can crack.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Johnny Eat Fruit on August 16, 2019, 07:32:42 AM
My Sweet Tart mango tree is finally flushing now. Last year in 2018 it only had one growth flush. Hopefully this year I will get two from this tree. Time will tell.

(https://i.postimg.cc/68C6xv01/Sweet-Tart-Mango-Tree-Flush-8-13-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68C6xv01)
Sweet Tart Mango Tree (8-13-2019)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2019, 11:48:17 AM
Excellent looking Sweet Tart tree! I love how bushy it is on top. Sweet Tart even performs great on Florida rootstock. You should be getting fruit on it soon. Please keep us updated on the progress of your beautiful tree.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on August 16, 2019, 01:29:32 PM
My sweet tart on who knows what rootstock from brokaw looked good for a few years but looks terrible after this winter.  The 2 year old ST seedling looks better. 

Manilla seedlng
(https://i.postimg.cc/PLrmtSJ1/20190811-100207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PLrmtSJ1)

Sweet tart seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX0LWkDS/20190811-100218.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX0LWkDS)

Taralay from florida.  This tree has been through a few winters and still looks erect and healthy.  It may be a good one for so cal.
(https://i.postimg.cc/n9Q4yMz5/20190811-100331.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9Q4yMz5)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on August 16, 2019, 04:18:34 PM
While checking out the new growth on my Choc Anon tree from Florida (presumably grafted on Turpentine rootsock), I noticed the branches are drooping over instead of standing erect.  Is this the infamous drooping phenomenon that we observe with some mango varietals on turpentine in SoCA?  Or is there something else of which I should be concerned?  This is the third growth flush from this mango in ground, but the first that I have observed this behavior.  Unlike the other ~20 in-ground mangos, it looks like I am getting some flower panicles shooting on a couple branches as well.  Choc Anon doing its thing?


(https://i.postimg.cc/0Kd0mGK3/IMG-2621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Kd0mGK3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jnrhL32P/IMG-2622.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnrhL32P)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: mangomanic12 on August 16, 2019, 05:23:31 PM
SHV ,looks like typical droopy growth. Stop wasting time buying Florida rootstock trees especially if you are going to plant in-ground. My bet is that plant will just about stay that height in 2 years or wither away and die.....just being real with you!!!
Grow rootstock from a good mango seed or purchase a manila mango and graft onto it later.
Do your research on these boards you will find that not many people have success with Turpentine rootstock from FL.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on August 16, 2019, 05:47:41 PM
Yup, thatís the typical droopy growth. You can stake up all the branches but youíll need a lot of stakes.

Like Mangomaniac12 suggested, itís best to plant some seedlings and top work them once they get large.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on August 17, 2019, 12:02:20 AM
Thanks guys. Unfortunately, I discovered this forum a bit late in the game, after several Florida trees were already purchased, struggled with, killed a couple, then searched online for guidance.   After spending more hours than I care to admit reading old threads, discovering how easy it was to graft, I planted several Home Depot specials (Manila) as well as other seedlings of various mango varieties acquired from Exotica last year. The seedlings were fairly priced and have grown gangbusters  since planted. The difference in growth compared to Florida grafts is shocking. Iím letting them establish strong root systems this year, then plan to graft next year.  I have already grafted some older seedlings that have traveled with me from a previous residence.  My FL grafts that appear to be fairly robust are Peach Cobbler, Pineapple pleasure, cotton Candy and Sweet Tart. I lost a Madam Francis, Lancetilla, and Fruit Punch.
My newest mango playground project includes 20 Ataulfo seedlings (planted today) and another 10 Kent seedlings (tomorrow) planted on my unused backhill. Hopefully they survive the gophers, rabbits, deer, winter chill, and every other obstacle we face in SD county backcountry.

(https://i.postimg.cc/V5RmWk4s/F6821034-FE03-4042-A9-D1-F95-FDC3-ADC33.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5RmWk4s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MotherofDragons on September 18, 2019, 09:44:27 AM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didnít see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? Iím not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 04:14:33 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didn’t see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? I’m not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I don't believe there are any out of state growers of new Zill varieties that ship fruit to our state. It's too late for seed, as the season for any but the ultra-late is over (Keitt,Neelam).

Our season begins about now until February or so. I don't believe any in state growers are selling their fruit though. You may get lucky on seed.

There are many here living in similar areas to you specifically who have had excellent results with the turpentine rootstock on the varieties you are specifically interested in. I wouldn't be discouraged, you can always in-arch later.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: MotherofDragons on September 18, 2019, 04:24:33 PM
Thank you. From my understanding shipping fruit into CA is a no-no. I strictly would only be looking for seed. I imagine due to the popularity of this thread and others (like the scion threads in BST)that we have at least a handful of CA growers who grow the Zill varieties. I was hoping one of them might have some seed for sale. I will just get some store bought ones for now and try my luck with those. I will also make a note on my calendar for next year; thanks for clueing me in on the mango season timing!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
No worries, gotta start somewhere, and from what I've read, the sooner you get seed in the ground the better.

It's actually legal to ship fruit into California, as long as it has been treated for fruit fly larvae. Which really isn't economical for most growers.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 08:07:15 PM
Thank you. From my understanding shipping fruit into CA is a no-no. I strictly would only be looking for seed. I imagine due to the popularity of this thread and others (like the scion threads in BST)that we have at least a handful of CA growers who grow the Zill varieties. I was hoping one of them might have some seed for sale. I will just get some store bought ones for now and try my luck with those. I will also make a note on my calendar for next year; thanks for clueing me in on the mango season timing!

Looks like you may still be in luck, as there is a Zill variety that fruits in September (in SFL).

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/zill-m-4 (https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/product-page/zill-m-4)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 18, 2019, 09:16:51 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didnít see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? Iím not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I actually donít recommend LZ right now because it can have severe production and fungal issues. Also, I noticed that Kent, Haden and Tommy Atkins seems to perform better as a rootstock compared to Kent but thatís just at my location. As long as itís growing well, it should make a good rootstock.

Florida Mangos May not be available but itís worth a shot posting on the buy/sell forum for seeds. I believe the Florida season is pretty much over however.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on September 18, 2019, 09:27:33 PM
Excellent thread, so much information!! What I didnít see asked yet is when is the best time to source seeds? Iím not familiar with the ripening times. There are a few local sales of mango trees coming up that I had hoped to buy a tree at. I had bookmarked this thread a while back and came back to read it all the way through. Now I am thinking of skipping both sales. The question is, am I late to the game to find quality variety polyembrionic seeds right now? I planted a store bought Keitt seed yesterday, but would love to source LZ, St, and others if possible.

I don't believe there are any out of state growers of new Zill varieties that ship fruit to our state. It's too late for seed, as the season for any but the ultra-late is over (Keitt,Neelam).

Our season begins about now until February or so. I don't believe any in state growers are selling their fruit though. You may get lucky on seed.

There are many here who have had excellent results with the turpentine rootstock. I wouldn't be discouraged, you can always in-arch later.

Actually, there arenít a lot of people that have had excellent results with (Florida) Turpentine rootstock trees. The people that have good results with them are generally more skilled and live in areas with more heat.

I have a thread or two on this forum and I have done some detective work and tracked down many of the people that claimed to have success with Florida Turpentine rootstock trees and after about two to three years, many of the trees were dead. I interviewed approximately 30 members, many of which had 10+ Florida Turpentine rootstock trees and was absolutely shocked at the death rate.

Yes, some vigorous varieties like VP, Sweet Tart, LZ will grow fine, even excellent on Florida Turpentine rootstock but try to grow a less vigorous variety or one that isnít so disease resistant and you will find that they donít grow well here.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on September 18, 2019, 09:57:38 PM
True enough, my statement did not include appropriate hedging.

Most people live closer to the coast than MoD.

But MoD lives in the Inland Empire where it is very hot and dry, and the varieties she specifically mentioned are in the group which have shown to do well on Turpentine.

My advice in that post should be viewed as specific to the reader quoted, and I will edit it to clarify.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on October 31, 2019, 07:23:44 AM
Simon,

This is a great thread and I've learned a lot about the mango tree I just purchased.  I do have a question about flowering and temperature in young trees.  If flowering is preventing vegetative growth and flowering continues until the temperature reaches a certain minimum temperature, has anyone tried using an external heat source, like incandescent Christmas tree lights, at least during the weeks or months before the average night time lows approach the temperature that suppresses flowering? Might that inhibit re-flowering and allow the young trees to put out more flushes? 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: sapote on October 31, 2019, 03:12:05 PM
To grow rootstock in SoCal I just use Kent bought from stores during summer. After eating the fruit (be careful don't bite off the young protruding root that may be out of the seed) I clean flesh off the seed a bit just so not many rolly polly bugs attracted to and might chew off the new growths. I placed the seed with husk (I used to remove the husk but now I prefer to keep the husk which protect the seed and keeps it moist) untouched  directly on top of the soil where I want a mango tree, and cover the seed 1 to 2" with kitchen green trash to keep it moist and protected from strong sun. Keep the pile moist and soon a very healthy big leaves seedling sent out. With seedling trunk still green it loves water daily. But once the seedling is 24" tall and the trunk with thicker brown bark, be careful not to water the soil wet all the time because the constant wet soil will have fungus attack the brown trunk and kill the handsome young tree. It happened to me a few times and I learned from that.

Don't even think about grafting until the seedling carries fruits, then I just perform the modified Walter Zill Inlay graft (coffin in grave) on the 1" or bigger branches, then I can have fruits next year on a one year old graft. From seed to graft fruit took about 3 to 4 years but this is the best way to have a strong well developed tree for more fruits in the future.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on October 31, 2019, 03:41:45 PM
Hey Sandiegojane,

Welcome to the forum! I have never tried external heat sources for outdoor Mangos but I was able to inhibit flowering and promote a vegetative flush in winter with grafted trees moved into my garage and supplemented with bottom heat via large seedling heat mats and artificial lighting.

In this thread, I have previously mentioned that planting seeds from Polyembryonic varieties like Sweet Tart, may be a good way of growing mango trees in marginal climate areas. By growing seedlings which lack the mature, florigenic hormones, the tree will grow vegetatively for several years before flowering.

Early flowering causes droopiness in the branches due to the weight of the flower panicles and droopiness of branches exposes the branches to the sun which can lead to sunburn.

The issue with planting seedlings from Polyembryonic varieties is that you wonít know for sure wether you are planting the clone or the zygotic seedling. Not all seeds from Polyembryonic Mangos will give you multiple seedlings and sometimes you will get multiple sprouts from the same segment of a seed.

In order to get a better chance at selecting a clone, you will want to ensure you get at least two sprouts from different segments of the seed making sure each seedling has its own individual root system. If you plant out both the seedlings, there is a better chance of getting a clone.

This year, I am doing a little experiment where I grafted a mango tree with multiple ďtrue Sweet TartĒ scions along with scions from Sweet Tart seedlings. I expect the branches grafted with true Sweet Tart scions to flower this year or next but Iím hoping the seedling scions will be delayed in their flowering.

If there is any noticeable difference in the time it takes for first blooms to appear between the mature scions vs the seedling scions, I may be able to graft up trees that will grow slightly better due to delayed flowering/increased vegetative growth.

The rootstock tree has flowered before so I consider it mature rootstock even though the rootstock tree was only about 2-3 feet tall when I topworked it.

This rootstock tree is the same tree as my Double Stone Graft Lemon Zest but one rootstock died so it is a single rootstock tree now. I topworked 15 branches with mostly true Sweet Tart scions but I also added Peach Cobbler, Cotton Candy, PPK, Orange Sherbet Seedling #1, Sweet Tart Seedling #1 and Sweet Tart Seedling #2. This tree was originally Lemon Zest so there are a couple true Lemon Zest branches on this tree and all the grafts are grafted onto Lemon Zest as an interstock between the rootstock and Scions.

This tree was grafted on 9/19/19 and 14 of the 15 grafts have pushed and the last graft is still green but we are about to hit our cold weather so itís not looking good for it. I reached a low of 44F early this morning.



(https://i.postimg.cc/67j7f4Yk/16400-E71-8-AB8-42-A3-AA75-3442-DB7-AEB16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67j7f4Yk)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on November 06, 2019, 01:24:57 PM
Thank you so much for your reply!  I'm afraid I'm not adventurous enough to try grafting.  Christmas tree lights I think could do, but not too much more. LOL!  I bought this tree (Fruit Punch) at the recent CRFG plant sale.  It is grafted, but I don't even know what rootstock it is on (the guy in that section was too busy and my daughter was getting impatient).  My hope is just to keep it alive and growing long enough to get some fruit.  I have one other Mango (Mallika) that I bought from Pine Island Nursery years ago, which is pretty small. I had 4 fruit this year, which were good (by my standards at least) but it isn't getting enough sun where it is located and I plan to move it. The fruit were on the side that's growing into the light (which side is doing well), but the other, shaded side is not happy.  I've been starting to root prune it and will relocate it in the spring. If if survives, I'll be happy. I give it about a 50% chance in my hands.  I wish I had more space and time to devote to gardening (sigh). Everything has to withstand periods of intense attention interspersed with periods of relative neglect.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on November 13, 2019, 09:05:32 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on November 13, 2019, 09:58:11 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)

I have one of those too and it flowered all summer and has tons of fruit set on it now.  The tree is not even big enough to be fruiting.  Seems like not a good type to bother growing here. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on November 14, 2019, 02:01:27 AM
Thank you so much for your reply!  I'm afraid I'm not adventurous enough to try grafting.  Christmas tree lights I think could do, but not too much more. LOL!  I bought this tree (Fruit Punch) at the recent CRFG plant sale.  It is grafted, but I don't even know what rootstock it is on (the guy in that section was too busy and my daughter was getting impatient).  My hope is just to keep it alive and growing long enough to get some fruit.  I have one other Mango (Mallika) that I bought from Pine Island Nursery years ago, which is pretty small. I had 4 fruit this year, which were good (by my standards at least) but it isn't getting enough sun where it is located and I plan to move it. The fruit were on the side that's growing into the light (which side is doing well), but the other, shaded side is not happy.  I've been starting to root prune it and will relocate it in the spring. If if survives, I'll be happy. I give it about a 50% chance in my hands.  I wish I had more space and time to devote to gardening (sigh). Everything has to withstand periods of intense attention interspersed with periods of relative neglect.   

There was a bit of a rush of people, so I do apologize for not answering all the questions.

The trees are grafted on Turpentine rootstock.

I think the trees will do well for you, I have found mangoes to be particularly tolerant of neglect.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: DSotM on November 14, 2019, 08:18:05 AM
Lots of activity in Fresno. Manillas and Valencia pride are flushing. Keitt have been stuck with beginning leaf flush for over a month now - seems to grow poor here. Ice cream and ndm are flowering
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on November 14, 2019, 05:34:49 PM
My 4 years old Mahachanok scion is blooming now on its few branches, I thought it's rather early.
Should I leave them alone, or cut them off? Sorry if this has already been discussed on this thread, thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp/Maha-early-bloom-11-13-19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8fGmSNp)

Mahas early flowers will usually set fruit so you can leave them on if your tree is large enough to hold fruit. Maha is pretty reliable here in SoCal.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Samu on November 15, 2019, 05:11:16 PM
Thanks again for the replies guys, I decided to cut off half of the panicles, leaving the other half alone; let see what's going to happen with them this coming Spring...
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on November 24, 2019, 12:54:25 PM
Gary mango best late mango so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HWXts7K/1-C71-BFF5-83-BE-4-C46-B8-E1-F18-BB84-C4380.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HWXts7K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wt57RDnq/50-FA0-B68-B5-E1-4-A6-A-BAC6-F0-E7716-F6-B2-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wt57RDnq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MMFxnTZZ/A59-B89-B8-FED1-4256-9034-22-EE4-EE6692-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMFxnTZZ)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Greg A on December 04, 2019, 05:49:24 PM
Can anyone identify the mango in the photo below? It is from a grafted tree growing in San Diego, but the owner doesn't recall which variety he planted. The photo was taken yesterday, December 3.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v/IMG-20191203-154107098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: ammoun on December 08, 2019, 05:22:54 PM
Can anyone identify the mango in the photo below? It is from a grafted tree growing in San Diego, but the owner doesn't recall which variety he planted. The photo was taken yesterday, December 3.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v/IMG-20191203-154107098.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHRkLs9v)

It reminds me of Palmer but most likely it isn't.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on December 11, 2019, 10:11:48 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/WtmR3Hgg/DDF3-D85-A-3-B9-A-4-B07-BE15-B760973-B2032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WtmR3Hgg)

Getting great growth out of this double rootstock Kent. (Indoors under lights as a winter test)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: JF on December 13, 2019, 11:24:38 AM
Gary mango still producing sweet fruits in December. Have a few left that will carry into 2020.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jt9ShkKH/667-CB5-C8-699-A-4-C33-8705-B94-A4-F1-A4474.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Jt9ShkKH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YhYZLCyn/A1-C78-B87-4-E3-E-4866-A2-F6-0-D6-B707673-C6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhYZLCyn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bj3yTfrq/DEB9-CC70-2-BCD-4-DE1-930-F-0-A49-D552-E646.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bj3yTfrq)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: K-Rimes on February 19, 2020, 03:08:24 PM
Getting a nice flush from this grafted diamond. Will there be any SoCal mango scions available any time soon?

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBQ6hT5z/88-BE9059-C322-492-F-803-B-DC9-B5-A651909.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBQ6hT5z)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaneatwell on February 20, 2020, 04:40:22 PM
For those of you in the San Diego area, i happened across what might be one of the oldest mango trees down here. Its in Escondido. About 20' tall by 30' wide and a trunk that looks to be ~18" wide. I'll add some pics later. PM me if you want the street address to have a look.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shaneatwell on February 20, 2020, 08:39:46 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/QHLVtHNv/44-C57406-8-A63-45-F9-9130-39-F8-EA3953-F1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHLVtHNv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xNmC5S5s/BEBD5-E3-E-4-A83-4-A54-A3-D8-94-CA4-F8-B890-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNmC5S5s)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: quemacoco on March 27, 2020, 05:13:41 PM
Can anyone tell me where to get a Sweet Tart Mango tree?  I am in Santa Ana and have been looking all over for several months with no luck.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on March 27, 2020, 11:55:38 PM
You can probably get one from Plantogram.com but it will likely be on Florida Turpentine rootstock. Sweet Tart is on of the varieties that does ok on Florida rootstocks.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on March 28, 2020, 02:46:11 AM
Delete
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: palingkecil on March 28, 2020, 02:47:25 AM
Plantogram will have grafted sweet tart around July, but they said it will go fast. If you want it, call plantogram and put your name and number, so you will get it first when they have it. Another alternative is, buy any mango tree from home depot and graft the sweet tart scion on it. Usually people will start selling mango scions at the end of August through September.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on April 14, 2020, 07:01:07 AM
Oolie, Thanks for letting me know - invaluable information.  I was really hot at the CFRF plant sale, so it's mostly my fault - I just wanted to get back in my air conditioned car.  :)

Simon,  I just saw this video from Chris at Truly Tropical:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd_5JDBWYck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd_5JDBWYck)
She suggests cutting of most but not all of the individual panicles of mango flowers on young trees (in pots) to keep them from flowering again, allowing the plant to put more energy into vegetative growth.  If you remove just 90% or so, she says it is less likely to send out another panicle, but removing the whole thing triggers bloom.  She also has some tips on pruning to stimulate vegetative growth.  I know she's in Florida, so the temperature effect will be different, but might be worth a try. 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 14, 2020, 09:18:03 PM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

Iíve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext)

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 14, 2020, 11:09:34 PM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

Iíve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
[url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext[/url] ([url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext[/url])

Simon


Excellent article.

As it is, my trees have already begun the F/V Tr transition, so I have begun to remove flowers and fruit. Hopefully the rain in the forecast doesn't cause infection of the fresh wounds. I also remove some new growth from Lemon Zest. I've mentioned it previously, but for some reason the newer growth of this variety had cracks all over. Some black infection had begun on those cracks, and was beginning to spread, luckily I caught it when I did, as it was small and isolated, I've seen this type of infection work its way back to the trunk before.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Sandiegojane on April 15, 2020, 08:06:40 AM
Thanks for the info Sandiegojane! Somewhere on this forum, I posted about that technique as well. Removing a majority of the blooms also decreases the likelihood that the branches will droop from the weight of a full bloom panicle.

Here in San Diego, removing a majority of the blooms will still likely lead to a second or even third bloom event if the blooms are removed too early such as if you remove 90% of the blooms in November, December, January and even February or later.

In SoCal, average nightly lows is the most significant factor in bloom induction.

Iíve posted this several times before but here is a great article on Mango flowering
[url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext[/url] ([url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1677-04202007000400007&script=sci_arttext[/url])

Simon


Thanks, Simon! 

I remember reading that article. Thanks for posting it!  I inadvertently confirmed the temperature effect.  When we had Santa Ana winds a couple months ago, I brought the small 5 gal mango I have and a few other plants in containers into my kitchen (around 70 degrees F and greater than the 10% RH outside) to protect them. The mango started blooming. I cut the flowers off and kept it inside for a few weeks.  It hasn't rebloomed yet, but hasn't pushed any new leaves either.  It's been outside for a couple months now.  I can just barely see some new green buds forming, but can't tell if they are flowers or leaves yet.  Guess I'll just bring it back inside if they turn out to be flowers. :)  May work for awhile, but was hoping there was an easier solution for larger pots or in-ground trees.  Oh well... 
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 15, 2020, 02:08:41 PM
Hi there:

I have read through this thread multiple times to allow the terminology to sink in, and am asking someone to kindly confirm or correct my understanding:  to help achieve best success with growing a mango long term here in So Cal, you either buy a tree that's an ungrafted seedling such as a laverne manilla and graft your desired type to it, or, grow your own seedling, which can serve either to fruit or a graft target.  Growing your own seedling will be true to type if you get multiple growths from one seed.  Yes?  There are exceptions to this, of course, I'm just trying to understand the general strategy.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Oolie on April 15, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Hi there:

I have read through this thread multiple times to allow the terminology to sink in, and am asking someone to kindly confirm or correct my understanding:  to help achieve best success with growing a mango long term here in So Cal, you either buy a tree that's an ungrafted seedling such as a laverne manilla and graft your desired type to it, or, grow your own seedling, which can serve either to fruit or a graft target.  Growing your own seedling will be true to type if you get multiple growths from one seed.  Yes?  There are exceptions to this, of course, I'm just trying to understand the general strategy.

Thank you!

Most of what you've stated is accurate according to multiple observers. The part about multiple growths is actually related to Polyembryonism in mangoes, where one of the seedlings is often a clone of the parent. It's not always a clone, you don't always get multiple trees to sprout from seeds of polyembryonic varieties, and even if you do, there's no guarantee that one of them will be a clone of the parent. Though there are experimental techniques being employed to separate the clones from the new offspring.

In Gary Zill's case, he crushes the leaves of the different seedlings and selects for ones with different sap aromas to the parent mango, in the case of those trying to germinate clones from seedlings, they select for aromas similar to the sap aroma of the parent. In any case there are no guarantees, but it is possible to get polyploid clones as well. Polyploid clones will be dwarf versions of the parent.

It's somewhat complicated, but in practice, many will succeed at getting clones to grow from seed. In my opinion, the rigorous selection put forth by Gary Zill brought forth many superior genes, and the potential to get even better results is quite high if someone were to continue with his technique, specifically improving on his work.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on April 20, 2020, 09:55:28 PM
Wow, I just read this whole thread, and I can't even begin to comment.  So much useful stuff!  Thanks everyone -- I hope to be able to contribute to it myself, soon enough!
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 09:16:13 AM
Hello, another newbie question: how old should mango from seed be if chosen as a root graft here in so cal?

I sprouted a large, green/red costco mango last August, had a single sprout only, put into a a 3" pot in October, pinched the top in December, and put it into a 7 gallon pot mid March - before actually knowing you are supposed to slowly up-pot fruit trees, oops.  It had a very small root system.  Sadly, I didn't note the type of mango.  I'm not sure if I should practice grafting to it, or, grow it a few years and see if it'll fruit.

This thread was a lot of fun to read a few times through, inspiring :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 01:18:01 PM
You can graft as a sapling but I highly recommend allowing the tree to get large before top working. If you Graft a small tree with mature scions, it will flower within the next year. Iíve grafted hundreds of mango saplings using epicotyl grafts and Iíve also grafted many year old saplings and they will flower within a year unless you bring them in during cold weather or if you Graft with seedling scions.

When these young trees flower, it significantly slows down the rate of growth because energy is put into flowering and not into vegetative growth. The leaves are the trees solar panels and if the tree didnít waste itís energy on flowering, it would have approximately twice as many leaves. There is then the additive effect that each additional leaf it would have had, could capture that much more sun energy.

This process then repeats every winter and the tree that was grafted when small will again bloom and the seedling that was not grafted will again grow vegetatively once the weather is sufficiently warm enough for growth.

Here are a couple seedlings that were grafted as a young sapling:
CAC graft on White Pirie seedling
(https://i.postimg.cc/sBkCmK7d/7323-B518-35-EB-4027-872-C-06-FABD0-A2364.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBkCmK7d)
Sweet Tart graft on Kent seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/Zvx5dX95/C5-CEA5-D4-E6-BF-4-F21-9928-0-D590-AB9-D165.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zvx5dX95)

Same grafted sweet Tart on Kent rootstock vs Kent Seedling that was not grafted. The trees are the same age but look at the difference in height. Donít count height of the flower stock on the grafted tree because it will be removed anyways. The ungrafted tree is twice the height of the grafted tree.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wqpf4dxz/930-DD624-E03-B-4-F7-C-B6-B2-DC6-CBA5868-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wqpf4dxz)

In case anyone is wondering, yes, these roughly 12 inch tall trees grafted with mature scions will attempt to hold fruit to maturity but the fruit will be tiny, may not fully ripen and will severely stunt your tree. Here is another Sweet Tart grafted onto Fruit Cocktail seedling holding several tiny fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3y2VR5fy/ECCBA72-C-418-B-4304-B9-F1-EF5-A55-AD0-D2-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3y2VR5fy)

It is best to graft trees when they have reached a mature fruiting size, ideally about 4+ feet tall with several well developed scaffold branches.

The issue with this technique is that you will have to know how to top work a mature tree and you will need to perform multiple grafts and will require multiple scions.

When grafting saplings, you only need a single scion and if you perform epicotyl grafts, you can get near 100% takes.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
If you are new to grafting, it is ok to graft you g saplings but the growth will be slower. You will also have to remove about half to 3/4 of the bloom panicle each year in order to minimize drooping.

Wether you have a grafted or ungrafted mango tree, you should stake up any drooping branches so that the scaffold branches are shaped in the way you prefer. For me, the more vertical the branches the better because the more vertical the branches are, the less likely they are to flower but this effect is minimal compared to cold stimulus in floral induction.

If your tree is already sturdy and vertical, there is no need to stake it up. The action of the wind blowing a tree causing it to sway in the breeze will actually stiffen up the tree and make the trunk and branches stronger.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 07:30:40 PM
Cool, thanks.  Sounds like the best option is to give it another ~3 years. 

I have read about the issues associated with blooming too early grafting mature scion and cold weather, but presenting it again as you have made it a lot more clear, thank you for that :)  The tip was nipped because I didn't know any better, thought they were like avocados.  The plant has been relatively dormant, is now about 8" tall or so, and finally beginning to show growth at the top.  Brown leaf tips are likely from the poor soil choice in the 3" pot.  Someone posted an interesting video today about pruning mangos, it was quite informative!

I have no grafting experience.  The local costco had some oxnard grown ataulfos I'll maybe try sprouting them and learn how to graft.  Will need to research :)

Because there's very little space to work with, I am trying to do as much reading and theorizing before making decisions.  It's a little overwhelming reviewing about the dozens of types available, how does one new to this go about tasting the different types?  Or, just get something and go?

Thanks!

(https://i.postimg.cc/KK7v6Lv3/mango-top.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KK7v6Lv3)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 24, 2020, 08:53:14 PM
You can read through the old threads like this one here:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31734.msg349437#msg349437)
There wasnít a lot of info last years but the years prior to 2019 has lots of good info regarding members favorite varieties for each given year.

This thread is a bit more relevant with a bit of info regarding the best tasting and reliable Mangos for SoCal.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=31480.msg347770#msg347770)

Some of the best tasting varieties like Lemon Zest, hardly produce here( without spraying) because of disease issues.

Sweet Tart,Venus, CAC, Edward, Peach Cobbler, NDM, Gary, Carrie and several other varieties have proven to be productive over several years of observations and at various locations around SoCal. Other varieties that are promising but lacking data are Cotton Candy, E4, Juicy Peach.

Leo Manuel also has multiple good to excellent tasting varieties that are productive in areas with high fungal disease pressures.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 10:27:59 PM
Yup, thanks, I have read both those threads at least three times through each, and I plan to stay away from Lemon Zest (which you wouldn't know since I'm new here and didn't volunteer the info, so I do appreciate you confirming! :)).  Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining, just trying to figure out how to get through all the info.  For example, put yourself in the shoes of someone new, and look at this thread on compact mangoes (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17443.0).. there are 35 varieties listed right up front.  Reading what others write will get you only so far.  I really want to try a sweet tart, but, it's not on the compact list, so I probably won't get one.

I suppose after the stay-home orders are released, I'll just start browsing stores and paying attention to the fruit before purchasing, I think I saw fruits for sale occasionally through the buy/sell here as well, then cross reference anything I eat/find with the two threads (California and Compact).  Is that how it's usually done?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 24, 2020, 10:42:37 PM
Ah, sorry to double post, I just compared both the california producers list and the compact list, and narrowed it down to 10 types.  Now it's a lot easier to handle.  Of course, the list could be incomplete, and there are probably exceptions, but I have something to work with now :)  10 much easier that 35 in one and 32 in the other! ;D
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on April 25, 2020, 07:50:33 PM
Strom, I wouldnít worry about getting a compact Mango unless you are severely restricted in regards to space, for example, if youíre living in an apartment/condo or if you have to keep it in a pot.

Mangos grow much better in warmer areas and mango trees often get fungal afflictions in our cold wet winters. The dwarf or condo type mangos grow very slowly in our climate and I would recommend planting a vigorous variety instead. You may need to trim the plant more frequently but youíll likely get more fruit because the vigorous varieties will reach fruiting size more rapidly.

My friends Pickering and Cogshall was over 12 years old and was just a tiny Bush. The Cogshall eventually died and the Pickering eventually faded away as well.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: strom on April 25, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
Strom, I wouldnít worry about getting a compact Mango unless you are severely restricted in regards to space, for example, if youíre living in an apartment/condo or if you have to keep it in a pot.
((snip))
My friends Pickering and Cogshall was over 12 years old and was just a tiny Bush. The Cogshall eventually died and the Pickering eventually faded away as well.

Thanks.  Yeah, I have specific situation which prevents me from anything large, which is further complicated through minimal full-sun yard space.  Cogshall and Pickering are not in the "grows well in CA" thread, so, I already ruled those out. 

It's very possible that mangos won't be suited to my environment, but, I don't want to fill up this thread with my quandary.  I'm going to keep researching all the fruits, and probably post a separate topic later for advice after I've narrowed things down.  I'm rather new to gardening overall, so am taking it slow :)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 22, 2020, 02:51:10 PM
Here are some updates to some seedling mangos that Brad and I planted at the orchard. We initially planted a bunch of Florida trees because they were already purchased before Brad and I partnered up but most eventually died and the few remaining trees are either stunted or so droopy and diseased that were probably going to just pull them all out if Brad hasnít already done so.

These are some seedling trees, some from Polyembryonic seeds, some from Monoembryonic seeds. The seedling trees tend to have a nice, upright structure that is not droopy. Most these trees are only a year or two old, I think the biggest one is 2-3 years old.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39/2-D1985-BD-B3-D6-4213-A381-EEFCF468-FF01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Ypg5W39)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ/7-B51-FD11-98-A3-4268-A937-519-CC373-C7-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcwGxhCZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDwfq89x/E05-A080-C-7-DAF-47-A1-8838-E7-B31-D2022-EB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDwfq89x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KKFystKs/F4-CEC5-CA-1096-4-D5-E-B215-6400183137-CF.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKFystKs)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on May 22, 2020, 04:15:27 PM
Those are damn big for only 2-3 years old!  How long were they in a pot before planted in the ground?  Did they spend their first couple winters in a greenhouse?  Those are some beautiful seedlings. And one already has flowers!  Nice work guys. I would love to replicate that early growth with some of my seedlings.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: spaugh on May 22, 2020, 04:36:58 PM
The seeds go for around a year in a pot then in the ground.  Greenhouse or simons yard for the first winter.     

The seedling trees definitely do better with the first 3 years of no flowering compared to a pre grafted tree.  The flowering is so strong here it just stunts small trees.   
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: beicadad on May 22, 2020, 05:22:18 PM
Very nice growth.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 22, 2020, 05:42:58 PM
We like to vet the seedlings through one winter whenever possible. Some seedlings are just inherently weaker or more prone to disease and by grafting seedlings that have gone through a SoCal Winter, we are able to weed out the weaker stock.

Iíve also had great luck with direct seeding mango seeds into the ground. These are usually very vigorous because there is not transplant shock. I sometimes go against my own advice and graft them when they are too small because i have scions available and donít want to toss the scions.

The good thing about starting them in pots is that you can move them into your garage or greenhouse in Winter and you can also root prune your trees to create a more dense root system.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: shinzo on May 25, 2020, 08:37:30 AM
We like to vet the seedlings through one winter whenever possible. Some seedlings are just inherently weaker or more prone to disease and by grafting seedlings that have gone through a SoCal Winter, we are able to weed out the weaker stock.

Iíve also had great luck with direct seeding mango seeds into the ground. These are usually very vigorous because there is not transplant shock. I sometimes go against my own advice and graft them when they are too small because i have scions available and donít want to toss the scions.

The good thing about starting them in pots is that you can move them into your garage or greenhouse in Winter and you can also root prune your trees to create a more dense root system.

Simon

Interesting thread and detailed explanations, even though i am in a different country, but a mediterranean one (Tunisia) so i guess the climate is similar to yours.
When you seed directly in the ground, do you protect / shade the young seedling during the first week when it emerges in order to prevent hot sun damage on the young leaves?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:12:11 AM
No, I let the seedlings grow directly in full sun. I donít baby the seedling but I will protect new grafts from temps above about 85F. For grafts, the first two weeks are critical so I protect them if its hot. For seedlings, I donít give them any protection.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:32:55 PM
Hereís a quick update on my Sweet Tart seedlings. I planted one seed about 3-4 years ago and got two sprouts from different segments of the seed, each with their own root system. I just let them be. Their trunks are right next to each other and these seedlings are shaded most of the day with a large Pomegranate tree to one side and a medium sized Lemon Zest mango tree on the other side.

These seedlings are stunted due to being shaded out but one of the seedlings flowered last year and both seedlings flowered and set some small fruit this year. I will remove the fruit because the trees are still too small. Brad and I have been experimenting a lot with seedling trees and we have found it best to maximize their growth during the first critical 3 years before they start to bloom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2y6BBxc/5203-AC41-6685-4-DE4-99-E9-B3-BC0188-F627.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2y6BBxc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfT7RCvN/679-CDCA2-6-ACE-4897-A377-6-C35-F9-D08195.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfT7RCvN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vD645PrD/75-EFCD1-C-5-D09-41-CF-B0-FB-064-C0-C1766-A8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vD645PrD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsRXGgS9/76-B9-EBEE-E268-4283-B5-B0-80-A480-D67166.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsRXGgS9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5HNHvbgM/8-C3730-E5-058-D-4-AC2-B473-77-D2-CB8-CB23-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HNHvbgM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rzvtb6VS/9-C6-E0011-EC7-A-4-E36-942-F-3-D8-E8-A43-ED08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzvtb6VS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8ty0dTj/A957-EF85-05-CF-420-A-B000-2-DFC4-D6-AB7-DD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8ty0dTj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R62qjfBM/C4-D79-CFB-8930-45-E6-BFF4-512-F706-B543-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R62qjfBM)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on May 27, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
I didnít take a zoomed out picture because all youíll see is the Pomegranate branches covering the canopy.

Here is an Orange Sherbet seedling that is about 2 years old but in full sun except for some shading from the fence in the early morning and late evening.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQM4Ypmy/5-F18-C968-8-C5-E-435-B-862-C-0-C9-E733175-CC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQM4Ypmy)
Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: SHV on May 27, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
Simon, I really appreciate you sharing the progress of your seedling trees.  Without examples to compare against, it is difficult to gauge if my seedlings are progressing as expected for our climate.  Its also reassuring to see various seedlings performing well in the first 3-5 years of growth with potential as rootstock.  In addition to gophers, my current challenges include aphids attacking the new leaf growth, wind destroying new leaf growth, and birds landing on new growth destroying the tender leaves with their little bird claws.  Here are some of my various 4-5 year old seedlings:

(https://i.postimg.cc/FY7s04nM/Paheri.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FY7s04nM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nsmFw1xT/Carrie.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsmFw1xT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gn0YPpdx/Ott.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gn0YPpdx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjx0nGP5/Red-Saigon.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sjx0nGP5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QV421TGM/Manilla.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QV421TGM)
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on June 05, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
I want to thank everyone, especially Simon, for creating and contributing to this thread.  I wish I would have seen this thread a few years ago before purchasing and planting my mango trees.  I have learned quite a bit on my own and from this thread.  I have a few questions regarding grafting mango scions that have not been discussed in detail or I may have missed.  I understand that the warmer growing season is the best time to select and graft mango scions.
1)  When is the best time of day (morning, noon, evening) for picking/cutting the mango scions, or does it matter?
2)  When is the best time of day (morning, noon, evening) for grafting the scion onto the host, or does it matter?
3)  Are there any issues grafting onto suckers from the root-stock - Manila root-stock (I don't believe there is but just want to confirm)?  I grafted onto a sucker last year and it is doing well.  I was surprised it didn't flower during the winter or early spring...just put out some wonderful growth.  My other grafts from last year put out blooms in winter and early spring.


Thank-you in advance for any helpful responses,
Tony


(https://i.postimg.cc/bdKkT36h/IMG-7063.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdKkT36h)
Grafted Sucker
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 06, 2020, 01:08:16 PM
Hey Tony,

This is just my personal preference but hereís what I do and why:

1)I usually donít even think about the time of day I harvest my scions. I try to always prep my scions by removing the leaves about 1-2 weeks before I harvest them. Now that you have me thinking  about it, the late evening is probably the best time of day to harvest the scions. Thinking back to my botany classes, the plants convert sunlight into carbohydrates/starches in the daytime and at night, they send more of that energy back down into the roots than in the daytime. By harvesting around sunset, there is probably the most stored energy in the scions, please correct me if Iím wrong.

2) I always graft in the evening because I donít want the strong sunlight to hit the scion and graft union. When the sunlight hits the scions, it often causes condensation build up under the Buddytape/parafilm. The first two weeks after grafting are critical but the first 1-3 days are super super intensive care unit critical. The union is forming at this point and you want to give the scion and rootstock the best chances of a successful union.

I do this by grafting in the evening in order to give it the maximum number of hours before the sun hits it again and I also cover my scions and entire graft union with whatever I have lying around. I often use white paper bags with holes bunched in it or white paper or leaves taped together. Just about anything that will give it some shade.

3) if you graft onto a vigorous sucker, the shade from the main tree may shade the grafted sucker so you may not get the most vigorous growth. The shape of the tree may also not be ideal because the trees are so close. I have many Polyembryonic seedlings that I just left in place so the trunks are almost touching itís neighbor and the trees will grow away from each other. The tree will look like itís leaning away from the neighbor but itís no big deal for me.

Before I wrap my scions, I clean them with a copper soap and allow them to air dry before wrapping. I have a lot of fungal diseases in my area and I would occasionally get fungus on my wrapper scions before I started this practice.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on June 07, 2020, 09:12:32 PM
Are there any issues I should think about before grafting onto a waist-high seedling in a 5-gallon pot?

Would it be better/worse to keep it under grow lights in my garage for the first week or two after grafting?
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: UplanderCA on June 07, 2020, 09:45:20 PM
Hi Simon,

Thank-you.  I tend to agree about harvesting scions in mid to late afternoon.  My neighbor and a florist recommends picking roses in the mid/late afternoon as the bloom will last longer due to the flower having the most energy/nutrients at this time - similar analogy to the scions have the most energy at this time.

Tony
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: Viraldonutz on June 10, 2020, 07:34:25 PM
Does anyone want to share their fertilizer schedule?  I've never been consistent, and I want to start.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Are there any issues I should think about before grafting onto a waist-high seedling in a 5-gallon pot?

Would it be better/worse to keep it under grow lights in my garage for the first week or two after grafting?

If you want faster growth, itís best to plant the tree and not graft it until it is much larger and the scaffold branches have formed. If you graft with mature scions, it will flower in Winter and continue flowering for about 5-6 months every year thereafter.

If you must graft now because you want a lower graft or you donít want to have to go through the troubles of top working multiple scaffold branches, your suggestion of moving the potted tree into the garage for a couple weeks while the union heals is a good idea.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 11, 2020, 05:07:48 PM
Hey Jake,

Everyone would ideally come up with a customized fertilizer routine that suits their specific trees and soil conditions.

Everyoneís yards are different and one of the most important factors to consider is the pH of your soil. If your pH is off, your plants will not be able to uptake the nutrients you give it. For the more advanced gardeners, they will also consider the CEC/AEC by sending out soil samples for analysis. I just want to put out this disclaimer first.

I know some readers are probably thinking that this is overthinking the situation but the more you know about the science behind fertilizing, the better you will be able to troubleshoot if you have issues.

Ok, here is the simplified answer. In San Diego, our soil pH is generally high unless your soil has been conditioned over many years.

In general, I first adjust the pH of my soil with granular soil sulfur which will slowly decrease the pH of your soil. I add sulfur every year around Spring when the weather starts warming up.  A general purpose citrus fertilizer works fine for Mangos. Something you can find at Home Depot like Vigoro 6-4-6 is fine for Mangos.

I usually use 1/4 the recommended dose on the instructions but I fertilize 4x as frequently. I back off on fertilizer around late Summer/early Fall because you donít want vegetative growth going into cold weather as the soft growth can be an entry point for diseases. You have to be especially careful with smart/slow release fertilizer because it can release nutrients well after the application date.

The slow/smart release fertilizers are great for potted plants.

Once the trees are mature, I usually feed with with 0-10-10 or 3-12-12 plus minors and trace. I use this for most my fruiting trees.

In addition to these fertilizers, I add kelp emulsion around pre bloom to fruit set. Fish emulsion is also great for growth.

There are plenty of good organic fertilizers and they are slower acting and release their nutrients as the microbial life breaks them down. Cottonseed meal is a great acidifying fertilizer. I usually us a combination of organic and chemical fertilizers along with foliar feedings.

Because of the fungal issues we get in Winter, I like to add Silica to my fertilizer regimen. I use Potassium Silicate as a drench and a foliar to harden up the leaves and branches.

Around late Summer/early Fall, I apply some Southern Ag Citrus nutritional spray to give it some micronutrients and trace nutrients that Dr Crane recommended. I believe it was Manganese and something else I canít recall at the moment but I do remember that the Citrus Nutritional spray had both nutrients. It is supposed to help prevent Phomopsis.

Foliar feeding is great because you bypass the root system so soil pH does not affect the uptake of nutrients supplied via foliar feeding. A fogging system is recommended for foliar feeding if you have many trees. A spreader/sticker is also very important.

Much of the ground applied fertilizers are washed away and wasted. Slow/smart release fertilizers are more efficient but it is difficult to know how much remaining fertilizer is in the soil.

For potted plants, you can take an EC or PPM 500/700 reading from the runoff to know how much fertilizer is left in the soil.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenmango on June 26, 2020, 08:41:38 PM
I'm new to mango growing. Thank you for this post. I learned a lot after reading the info. on this forum.

I would like to buy the following mango varieties as a fruit or seed. Please let me know how I can obtain them. I would pay for the fruits or seeds and your time to find them for me. I live in SF Bay Area in CA (zone 10a) so shipping may be an issue. If you know a source for these mangoes or seeds please help.

Cac, Xoŗi  Cat Hoa Loc , Nam Doc Mai, Nam Doc Mai #4, Honey Kiss, Maha Chanok, Butter cream,  SugarLoaf (E-4), Florigon , PPK, Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbet, Coconut cream, M4, Pina Colada, Cotton Candy, Pim Seng Mun, Pram Kai Meu.

I have a manilla queen in the ground and it is doing well. I don't know how old it is as the owner didn't know. Bought it from Vista and it was about 4 ft w/ a big trunk.  I have longan, cherimoya, and atemoya and they are doing excellent in the ground. I also bought 6 manilla mango trees from LaVerne Nursery 3gal and waiting for them to establish roots before putting them in the ground. In March I got two and in late May I transplant 1 in a pot and one in the ground and both have not had any new leaves. The leaves seem to be burned bc of salt water or sock? When I took the tree out of the pot the root ball was not attached to any soil, thus my new manilla I just got yesterday (4 of them) will stay in their 3 gal pot until next spring.
I don't know how to graft and I already made a novice mistake of buying a few trees from FL with turpentine rootstocks.
The plan is my gardener knows how to graft so he's going to help me.  I recently took out many trees to make room for the mangoes.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Nga
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 28, 2020, 03:38:13 PM
Hey Nga,

I would recommend posting your seed want list in the buy/sell forum. Now is a great time to start learning how to raft from your gardener. I would not recommend Lemon Zest as a rootstock in SoCal. LZ seedlings grow fine at first but like an actual grafted LZ, the foliage and branches often get fungal issues and dieback.
Iíve planted out many LZ seedlings and some do fine in certain locations but others have had serious fungal issues.

Simon
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: greenmango on June 30, 2020, 12:40:41 PM
Thank you Simon. I found a seller and ordered some seeds (30 seeds of 10 varieties). 
Does CAC  or Cat Hoa Loc do well in CA? I will have them in pots at first from seeds and was thinking of getting a grafted CAC tree to give it a head start.

I grow blueberries for the last 10 yrs and have bountiful harvest so I know how to work with soil ph for mangoes.  I also have cherimoya and atemoya and longan that seems to do well so far. In the coming years I should know more if any of these are  good for our climate. I also bought sapodilla, soursop, June plum, and sugar apples, Pickering, and Nam doc mai tree in pots, ordered from FL.

Cheers,

Nga
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: behlgarden on June 30, 2020, 06:38:38 PM
Thank you Simon. I found a seller and ordered some seeds (30 seeds of 10 varieties). 
Does CAC  or Cat Hoa Loc do well in CA? I will have them in pots at first from seeds and was thinking of getting a grafted CAC tree to give it a head start.

I grow blueberries for the last 10 yrs and have bountiful harvest so I know how to work with soil ph for mangoes.  I also have cherimoya and atemoya and longan that seems to do well so far. In the coming years I should know more if any of these are  good for our climate. I also bought sapodilla, soursop, June plum, and sugar apples, Pickering, and Nam doc mai tree in pots, ordered from FL.

Cheers,

Nga

I have a CAC seedling that is doing excellent, it keeps branching without tip pruning. I like its growth habit too.
Title: Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
Post by: simon_grow on June 30, 2020, 10:17:16 PM
I agree with Behl, CAC is a good grower. CAC is one of those varieties that may need slightly more maturity or cold stimulus to bloom which is a good thing. My grafted CAC is currently holding a few fruit even with the worst Powdery Mildew I have seen in years. I sampled one CAC fruit that was absolutely incredible this year. It was super sweet with perfect acid balance and the texture and overall eating quality was top notch.  I highly recommend this variety for mango growers in SoCal.

Simon