Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on July 03, 2017, 05:59:44 PM

Title: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on July 03, 2017, 05:59:44 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old orange sherbet laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

Tree was doing very healthy. Its planted in a very nitrogen rich zone. Looks like the canopy grew too fast for the trunk.  I found the sprinkler was clogged with ants, so it might have gotten thirsty over the last week. I don't recall reading anything about this cultivar being susceptible to breakage (unlike coconut cream).

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.

I do not know of anyone else that has this one on the island or the state... pretty depressing. Especially considering they are $100 just for s/h.  :-[


(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 03, 2017, 07:11:32 PM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: TheDom on July 03, 2017, 07:42:25 PM
That really really sucks man. I'd get grafting ASAP.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on July 03, 2017, 09:04:13 PM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
TT, Feb 2016.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Squam256 on July 03, 2017, 10:00:38 PM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
TT, Feb 2016.

Well luckily for you it wasn't an orange sherbet then.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: murahilin on July 03, 2017, 10:18:08 PM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
TT, Feb 2016.

Well luckily for you it wasn't an orange sherbet then.

Lol. The Lemon Zest couldn't continue living a lie so it killed itself.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 03, 2017, 10:30:52 PM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
TT, Feb 2016.

Well luckily for you it wasn't an orange sherbet then.

Lol. The Lemon Zest couldn't continue living a lie so it killed itself.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: knlim000 on July 04, 2017, 12:50:27 AM
murahilin, that is just too funny
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Jose Spain on July 04, 2017, 01:56:03 AM
What kind of graft it had, venner or cleft?

Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on July 04, 2017, 02:20:50 AM
Where fid you get a grafted orange sherbet?
TT, Feb 2016.

Well luckily for you it wasn't an orange sherbet then.

Lol. The Lemon Zest couldn't continue living a lie so it killed itself.

Haha :D
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 04, 2017, 05:10:38 AM
What kind of graft it had, venner or cleft?

Probably a bud graft.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: ScottR on July 04, 2017, 10:57:00 AM
Bummer when you lose a tree, what type of graft would be good to know!  :(
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 04, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
Bummer when you lose a tree, what type of graft would be good to know!  :(

If it came from TT, it almost 100% assuredly originated from ZHPP,  which makes it a type of bud graft.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Jose Spain on July 04, 2017, 11:36:59 AM
What kind of graft it had, venner or cleft?

Probably a bud graft.

Thank you Rob, I didn't know that bud grafts were used also in mangoes. Here chip budding is the most common graft in nurseries in the case of Prunus, because is easily and quickly done. Any kind of bud graft may be used in mangoes or there is one specially suitable for it?
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: palmcity on July 04, 2017, 12:07:17 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)

Sorry for your loss I have not had one crack that low. I have had a cleft graph that I put on a old tree at about the 5 ft ht. get blown off when it had a similar amount of top growth.

There is a chance some of yours is still your desired variety and hopefully it will sprout out on the slither sticking up. Mine did split very similarly and the slither had numerous new limbs form in a few weeks and it actually helped prevent future wind damage due to becoming so bushy from the split area regrowth and lower & closer to the ground & out of upper winds (previously the cleft graph was about 4 foot up from original old tree with most of the branching far from the old tree & too high in the wind).

Good luck and don't cut off the slither. Do not make a smooth flat cut. Do not cut off even a mm till you see what will sprout and where. 
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 04, 2017, 12:42:46 PM
What kind of graft it had, venner or cleft?

Probably a bud graft.

Thank you Rob, I didn't know that bud grafts were used also in mangoes. Here chip budding is the most common graft in nurseries in the case of Prunus, because is easily and quickly done. Any kind of bud graft may be used in mangoes or there is one specially suitable for it?

I have seen varying forms of chip, T and inverted T.  Of course, each nursery and grafter usually have proprietary "tricks" and secrets.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 04, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)

Sorry for your loss I have not had one crack that low. I have had a cleft graph that I put on a old tree at about the 5 ft ht. get blown off when it had a similar amount of top growth.

There is a chance some of yours is still your desired variety and hopefully it will sprout out on the slither sticking up. Mine did split very similarly and the slither had numerous new limbs form in a few weeks and it actually helped prevent future wind damage due to becoming so bushy from the split area regrowth and lower & closer to the ground & out of upper winds (previously the cleft graph was about 4 foot up from original old tree with most of the branching far from the old tree & too high in the wind).

Good luck and don't cut off the slither. Do not make a smooth flat cut. Do not cut off even a mm till you see what will sprout and where.

There looks to be plenty of good Lemon Zest budwood on that tree.  Best to graft o to a seedlinv to start anew or top work onto existing tree to save it.  Relying on that sliver, even if it does shoot out a LZ growth, it will most likely not be the healthiest of trees.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Vernmented on July 04, 2017, 02:13:39 PM
Old School.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4211/35679728976_fd5f75b17b_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Jose Spain on July 04, 2017, 03:22:27 PM
In your grafting experience, which are the less prone to break? And the weakest?

Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: palmcity on July 04, 2017, 10:09:59 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)

Sorry for your loss I have not had one crack that low. I have had a cleft graph that I put on a old tree at about the 5 ft ht. get blown off when it had a similar amount of top growth.

There is a chance some of yours is still your desired variety and hopefully it will sprout out on the slither sticking up. Mine did split very similarly and the slither had numerous new limbs form in a few weeks and it actually helped prevent future wind damage due to becoming so bushy from the split area regrowth and lower & closer to the ground & out of upper winds (previously the cleft graph was about 4 foot up from original old tree with most of the branching far from the old tree & too high in the wind).

Good luck and don't cut off the slither. Do not make a smooth flat cut. Do not cut off even a mm till you see what will sprout and where.

There looks to be plenty of good Lemon Zest budwood on that tree.  Best to graft o to a seedlinv to start anew or top work onto existing tree to save it.  Relying on that sliver, even if it does shoot out a LZ growth, it will most likely not be the healthiest of trees.
As I mentioned, I would not cut off even a mm of the slither. I would use the existing good grafted slither a chance to sprout new limbs instead of risking your few possible buds on a graft attempt unless you are an expert at bud grafting.

My slither was higher up the limb and I will include pictures of the Now very healthy growing grafted limbs after a little over a year since the wind took off the top. The tree actually has an Easier Time of healing the graft on a slither IMO as the amount of xylem is small to have to circle with new cambium/phloem vs. a large limb. This is evident in almost all old big limb removal where years may pass to finally circle the cambium around the xylem to help prevent rot etc. etc. etc....
But, many don't see the obvious....However, pictures will follow for your amusement.
Original Cleft Graft picture one
(https://s12.postimg.cc/eyvewofjd/IMG_1078_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/eyvewofjd/)
2nd picture: Obvious tip of slither where new limb cambium quickly circled slither and continued upward.
(https://s12.postimg.cc/9oqg5dvah/IMG_1084_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9oqg5dvah/)
3rd picture: Obviously a very healthy tree...
(https://s12.postimg.cc/wepkydei1/IMG_1085_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wepkydei1/)
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 04, 2017, 10:19:12 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)

Sorry for your loss I have not had one crack that low. I have had a cleft graph that I put on a old tree at about the 5 ft ht. get blown off when it had a similar amount of top growth.

There is a chance some of yours is still your desired variety and hopefully it will sprout out on the slither sticking up. Mine did split very similarly and the slither had numerous new limbs form in a few weeks and it actually helped prevent future wind damage due to becoming so bushy from the split area regrowth and lower & closer to the ground & out of upper winds (previously the cleft graph was about 4 foot up from original old tree with most of the branching far from the old tree & too high in the wind).

Good luck and don't cut off the slither. Do not make a smooth flat cut. Do not cut off even a mm till you see what will sprout and where.

There looks to be plenty of good Lemon Zest budwood on that tree.  Best to graft o to a seedlinv to start anew or top work onto existing tree to save it.  Relying on that sliver, even if it does shoot out a LZ growth, it will most likely not be the healthiest of trees.
As I mentioned, I would not cut off even a mm of the slither. I would use the existing good grafted slither a chance to sprout new limbs instead of risking your few possible buds on a graft attempt unless you are an expert at bud grafting.

My slither was higher up the limb and I will include pictures of the Now very healthy growing grafted limbs after a little over a year since the wind took off the top. The tree actually has an Easier Time of healing the graft on a slither IMO as the amount of xylem is small to have to circle with new cambium/phloem vs. a large limb. This is evident in almost all old big limb removal where years may pass to finally circle the cambium around the xylem to help prevent rot etc. etc. etc....
But, many don't see the obvious....However, pictures will follow for your amusement.
Original Graft picture one
(https://s12.postimg.cc/eyvewofjd/IMG_1078_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/eyvewofjd/)
2nd picture: Obvious tip of slither where new limb cambium quickly circled slither and continued upward.
(https://s12.postimg.cc/9oqg5dvah/IMG_1084_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9oqg5dvah/)
3rd picture: Obviously a very healthy tree...
(https://s12.postimg.cc/wepkydei1/IMG_1085_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wepkydei1/)

Sorry but dont see the similarity in your tree and the LZ in question.  Maybe I am not seeing yours correctly but it looks like there is more of yhe grafted material there (and of course we cant see the fresh break).  Yours also looks to be a more eatablished tree that may have been keft after the damage.  The LZ js basicalky broken at the graft at ground level.

Could it possibly come back, sure, I suppose...but...why not just st art iver with a healthy graft.  Again, plenty of vudwood on the top part that broke off..

To each their own...
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: palmcity on July 04, 2017, 10:32:00 PM
Went outside yesterday, found 2 yr old laying on its side. Cracked at and below the graft.

I tried to recover by doing a couple of bark grafts on the stump. I have low expectations. Found a couple wild mangos to graft onto too.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/mui19njln/20170702_153106.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mui19njln/)

Sorry for your loss I have not had one crack that low. I have had a cleft graph that I put on a old tree at about the 5 ft ht. get blown off when it had a similar amount of top growth.

There is a chance some of yours is still your desired variety and hopefully it will sprout out on the slither sticking up. Mine did split very similarly and the slither had numerous new limbs form in a few weeks and it actually helped prevent future wind damage due to becoming so bushy from the split area regrowth and lower & closer to the ground & out of upper winds (previously the cleft graph was about 4 foot up from original old tree with most of the branching far from the old tree & too high in the wind).

Good luck and don't cut off the slither. Do not make a smooth flat cut. Do not cut off even a mm till you see what will sprout and where.

There looks to be plenty of good Lemon Zest budwood on that tree.  Best to graft o to a seedlinv to start anew or top work onto existing tree to save it.  Relying on that sliver, even if it does shoot out a LZ growth, it will most likely not be the healthiest of trees.
As I mentioned, I would not cut off even a mm of the slither. I would use the existing good grafted slither a chance to sprout new limbs instead of risking your few possible buds on a graft attempt unless you are an expert at bud grafting.

My slither was higher up the limb and I will include pictures of the Now very healthy growing grafted limbs after a little over a year since the wind took off the top. The tree actually has an Easier Time of healing the graft on a slither IMO as the amount of xylem is small to have to circle with new cambium/phloem vs. a large limb. This is evident in almost all old big limb removal where years may pass to finally circle the cambium around the xylem to help prevent rot etc. etc. etc....
But, many don't see the obvious....However, pictures will follow for your amusement.
Original Graft picture one
(https://s12.postimg.cc/eyvewofjd/IMG_1078_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/eyvewofjd/)
2nd picture: Obvious tip of slither where new limb cambium quickly circled slither and continued upward.
(https://s12.postimg.cc/9oqg5dvah/IMG_1084_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9oqg5dvah/)
3rd picture: Obviously a very healthy tree...
(https://s12.postimg.cc/wepkydei1/IMG_1085_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wepkydei1/)

Sorry but dont see the similarity in your tree and the LZ in question.  Maybe I am not seeing yours correctly but it looks like there is more of yhe grafted material there (and of course we cant see the fresh break).  Yours also looks to be a more eatablished tree that may have been keft after the damage.  The LZ js basicalky broken at the graft at ground level.

Could it possibly come back, sure, I suppose...but...why not just st art iver with a healthy graft.  Again, plenty of vudwood on the top part that broke off..

To each their own...
No problem, I thought you wanted to take a possible bud that may form from the rootstock and remaining slither of Lz. Sure, try any broken off parts accessible.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on July 20, 2017, 08:49:06 PM
Turns out it was a neighbors bull that was going around ripping trees. I had 3 other trees destroyed over the next few days before catching it.

Just want to update so people don't get hesitant about the quality of grafts/trees.

Whether its a LZ or not, I do not know. I have 2 other lemon zests and the growth habit was different. The LZ is very upright and vigorous. This OS was very bush like and low.

Even if it turned out to be a lemon zest, I would have been happy to have a third lemon zest  ;D
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: cbss_daviefl on July 20, 2017, 09:26:18 PM
I have two different lemon zests and they both have different growth habits. Fruits taste the same. One is tall and produces smaller fruits, the other is more spreading and produces larger fruit. Must be differences in the rootstock or soil nutrients.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: bsbullie on July 20, 2017, 10:09:38 PM
Turns out it was a neighbors bull that was going around ripping trees. I had 3 other trees destroyed over the next few days before catching it.

Just want to update so people don't get hesitant about the quality of grafts/trees.

Whether its a LZ or not, I do not know. I have 2 other lemon zests and the growth habit was different. The LZ is very upright and vigorous. This OS was very bush like and low.

Even if it turned out to be a lemon zest, I would have been happy to have a third lemon zest  ;D

From the looks of the leaves, it is/was a LZ.  In any event, definitely not an OS.
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Future on July 21, 2017, 11:49:30 PM
Thank God no one was hurt.  Not making light of the setback...but it is a sign...having a legit OS...bull...
Title: Re: Depressing, Orange Sherbert Mango Broke
Post by: Clayton on September 20, 2019, 11:09:39 PM
Hello, I just ordered a 7 gallon orange sherbert from TT the plant was 107 and the shipping was 135. They still have one 7 gal left. At least these Fed ex shipment comes packed in soil with the root ball in tack. I kind of hate bare root shipped trees. I live on Oahu and have a small yard. I hope those orange sherbert trees are semi dwarf like a Carrie or Nam Doc Mai #4.