Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: Luisport on November 17, 2017, 05:31:53 AM

Title: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 17, 2017, 05:31:53 AM
I read there are several varieties of Yuzu. I'm more interested about the seedless variety, but i don't know if it is a true yuzu... In Europe i don't see the yuzu varieties, just the usual one... any help?  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on November 18, 2017, 05:47:32 PM
Do you have the usual typ of yuzu?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 19, 2017, 01:58:59 AM
Some fruits of Hana Yuzu (from Eisenhut as Sudachi)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4561/26738588179_fd5e22734e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GJNfH2)Hana Yuzu aka Sudachi (https://flic.kr/p/GJNfH2) by hebamme.lena (https://www.flickr.com/photos/24810562@N07/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on November 19, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko and Sudachi - and it seems to me that most people in Europe who have either of them are not very keen on sharing.. :-\  You could also try Kabosu (C. sphaerocarpa) which is currently available from Adavo and is also used in cuisine.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 19, 2017, 10:37:18 AM
The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko and Sudachi - and it seems to me that most people in Europe who have either of them are not very keen on sharing.. :-\  You could also try Kabosu (C. sphaerocarpa) which is currently available from Adavo and is also used in cuisine.
Thank's a lot for your tips! What do you think about this one? I'm thinking to buy this one: http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html (http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html)
Do you know another better variety of yuzu with more juice and less seeds? Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 19, 2017, 10:37:53 AM
Do you have the usual typ of yuzu?
No i don't have any yuzu yet...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on November 19, 2017, 11:03:30 AM
Here is a picture of mine. Unfortunately no fruits this year.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/ta45jrfmp/IMG_20171119_164234.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ta45jrfmp/)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 19, 2017, 11:30:51 AM
Here is a picture of mine. Unfortunately no fruits this year.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/ta45jrfmp/IMG_20171119_164234.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ta45jrfmp/)
That's very beautifull! Congratulations. What kind of yuzu is?   ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on November 19, 2017, 11:56:28 AM
Thank, just the common typ.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 19, 2017, 12:27:38 PM
Thank, just the common typ.
I see it's very difficult to get other than the common one here...  :)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on November 21, 2017, 04:36:23 AM
The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko and Sudachi - and it seems to me that most people in Europe who have either of them are not very keen on sharing.. :-\  You could also try Kabosu (C. sphaerocarpa) which is currently available from Adavo and is also used in cuisine.
Thank's a lot for your tips! What do you think about this one? I'm thinking to buy this one: [url]http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html[/url] ([url]http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html[/url])
Do you know another better variety of yuzu with more juice and less seeds? Thank's!  ;D

I have never ordered there, since they only ship to EU countries but it looks ok.

Mind you – much of what I write here is not personal experience. I only have Hana Yuzu.
Ichang lemon has more juice than Yuzu but, of course, it is not a Yuzu. I think it is still worth a try. Hana Yuzu has fewer seeds than the normal one but also smaller fruit and the fragrance is less powerful. The seedless Yuzu would be best but it is almost impossible to find.

Check out this link with a lot of information about different Yuzu types: http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=41&sid=7cbbc5468736366e413e2a79d67ccd9c (http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=41&sid=7cbbc5468736366e413e2a79d67ccd9c)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 21, 2017, 09:06:30 AM
The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko and Sudachi - and it seems to me that most people in Europe who have either of them are not very keen on sharing.. :-\  You could also try Kabosu (C. sphaerocarpa) which is currently available from Adavo and is also used in cuisine.
Thank's a lot for your tips! What do you think about this one? I'm thinking to buy this one: [url]http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html[/url] ([url]http://www.citrusandlife.com/en/nursery/51-yuzu.html[/url])
Do you know another better variety of yuzu with more juice and less seeds? Thank's!  ;D

I have never ordered there, since they only ship to EU countries but it looks ok.

Mind you – much of what I write here is not personal experience. I only have Hana Yuzu.
Ichang lemon has more juice than Yuzu but, of course, it is not a Yuzu. I think it is still worth a try. Hana Yuzu has fewer seeds than the normal one but also smaller fruit and the fragrance is less powerful. The seedless Yuzu would be best but it is almost impossible to find.

Check out this link with a lot of information about different Yuzu types: [url]http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=41&sid=7cbbc5468736366e413e2a79d67ccd9c[/url] ([url]http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=41&sid=7cbbc5468736366e413e2a79d67ccd9c[/url])
Thank's a lot for your reply! This spanish seller got the trees from Holland. They seams very nice and as the purpose of them is sell fruit i think they should be nice. I just see seedless yuzu trees on Japan...
https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chigusa/item/686650/ (https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/chigusa/item/686650/)

 ;)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 21, 2017, 10:50:55 AM
They are selling seeds of a seedless Yuzu?  I am just asking :)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 21, 2017, 11:04:42 AM
They are selling seeds of a seedless Yuzu?  I am just asking :)
What from the spanish seller? This yuzus are not seedless...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on November 21, 2017, 11:18:36 AM
Seeds of a seedless yuzu!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 21, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
Is the Nishiki Tada actually a real Yuzu without seeds, or is it just called a yuzu?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 21, 2017, 02:24:33 PM
It is a variety of mukaku Yuzu, seedless yuzu.
The defect ( chromosome asynapsis) is genetic  and results in defective ovules and pollen.
The taste of fruits  is close to Yuzu, although the juice and peels have somewhat different composition.

Japanese article (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nskkk1962/33/11/33_11_773/_pdf) with English summary and comparative tables.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 21, 2017, 03:18:39 PM
It is a variety of mukaku Yuzu, seedless yuzu.
The defect ( chromosome asynapsis) is genetic  and results in defective ovules and pollen.
The taste of fruits  is close to Yuzu, although the juice and peels have somewhat different composition.

Japanese article (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/nskkk1962/33/11/33_11_773/_pdf) with English summary and comparative tables.
Thank's a lot for your reply! Do you know any source? Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 21, 2017, 05:03:23 PM
Not really, but I am searching :D
Some short descriptions for more Yuzu varieties can be found here (http://yuzunation.com/)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 22, 2017, 02:32:58 AM
on Jauce (https://www.jauce.com/auction/m228727535) you can find japanese grower selling their fruits. They send worldwide. If you are allowed to import Citrus it might be a source for seeds. But for EU Citizen it won`t work...
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 22, 2017, 06:06:39 AM
Thank's a lot for all the info!  ;)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Sylvain on November 22, 2017, 10:02:28 AM
> The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko.
In France, in private collections,  you can find everything you want.
A yuko in my garden:
(http://pafranceparamoteur.free.fr/datas/perso/Agrumes/yuko/Yuko-1.png)

(http://pafranceparamoteur.free.fr/datas/perso/Agrumes/yuko/Yuko-2.png)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 22, 2017, 10:29:48 AM
The Yuko A Native Japanese Cirus
http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/topics/japanese-traditional-foods/vol.-11-the-yuko-a-native-japanese-citrus (http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/topics/japanese-traditional-foods/vol.-11-the-yuko-a-native-japanese-citrus)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 22, 2017, 10:49:14 AM
> The seedless Yuzu or Nishiki (tada) is extremely hard to find outside of Japan - as are the true Yuko.
In France, in private collections,  you can find everything you want.
A yoko in my garden:
([url]http://pafranceparamoteur.free.fr/datas/perso/Agrumes/Yuko-1.png[/url])

([url]http://pafranceparamoteur.free.fr/datas/perso/Agrumes/Yuko-2.png[/url])
They are very beautifull, congratulations! Your yuzus have less seeds? Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 22, 2017, 10:53:04 AM
The Yuko A Native Japanese Cirus
[url]http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/topics/japanese-traditional-foods/vol.-11-the-yuko-a-native-japanese-citrus[/url] ([url]http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/topics/japanese-traditional-foods/vol.-11-the-yuko-a-native-japanese-citrus[/url])
Yuzus are so beautifull trees... in fact the only less of this fruit is the huge number of seeds. I just don't get why Japanese don't export nishiki tada trees to Europe and US!  :-\
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 23, 2017, 05:45:34 AM
Another one that i'm trying to find but's i couldn't untill now it's the dekopon mandarine. If there are anyone that knows a place that sells it, please tell me. Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 23, 2017, 02:53:16 PM
Dekopon is a fantastic tasting fruit.
+
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 23, 2017, 03:40:47 PM
Dekopon is a fantastic tasting fruit.
+
Thank's my friend! Yes it seams to, but impossible to get here in Europe... I'm thinking to grow it by seed because it's nucellar. I will hask if anyone that have it can share some seeds with me...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 23, 2017, 10:31:10 PM
Louisport, too bad you did not mention wanting a Dekpon seed before the Citrus Expo.  The Dekopon on the judging table had a couple plump seeds.  I could have taken one and sent it to you.   I have two Dekopon trees, one growing in the ground, and one as a container tree.  If I find a seed I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on November 24, 2017, 12:38:55 AM
I'd sure love to have a dekopon seed or two too, Millet :D.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Sylvain on November 24, 2017, 04:34:34 AM
Quote
Your yuzus have less seeds?
What do you mean? The pictures are from a yuko (I corrected the typo), not from a yuzu.
My yuzus are hon yuzus (the common yuzu) and have many seeds but I don't care because the main interest of yuzus is the zest.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 24, 2017, 05:38:11 AM
Louisport, to bad you did not mention wanting a Dekpon seed before the Citrus Expo.  The Dekopon on the judging table had a couple plump seeds.  I could have taken one and sent it to you.   I have two Dekopon trees, one growing in the ground, and one as a container tree.  If I find a seed I'll post it here.
Thank's a lot my friend! I will wait for your seeds. You are my only hope...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 24, 2017, 05:40:15 AM
Quote
Your yuzus have less seeds?
What do you mean? The pictures are from a yuko (I corrected the typo), not from a yuzu.
My yuzus are hon yuzus (the common yuzu) and have many seeds but I don't care because the main interest of yuzus is the zest.
Hi! My friend i don't know, my knowlege regarding yuzu is very basic. I don't know much about yuzu varieties...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Heinrich on November 24, 2017, 02:06:01 PM
Two years ago, I bought this Yuzu.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/tacvlze9z/Yuzu.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tacvlze9z/)
It has quite small leaves and some large thorns.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/esfodw7if/Yuzuthorns.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/esfodw7if/)
It was only this year, when I was told, that it´s grown from seed and has not yet fruited. Therefore, I acquired another Yuzu. The new plant has much larger leaves and small thorns. I suppose, this is the Yuzu most widely grown in European citrus collections. 
(https://s7.postimg.cc/bll4ucn3b/Yuzufru.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/bll4ucn3b/)
A comparison of the Yuzu plants. Both are grafted on trifoliate citrus.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/o07wurmc7/Yuzuplants.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/o07wurmc7/)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 24, 2017, 02:54:43 PM
The second one looks much better...  ;D Congratulations!
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 24, 2017, 03:35:45 PM
The first one is definitely not a Yuzu. Some papeda, probably ichangensis.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 24, 2017, 03:53:00 PM
Another Japanese hibrid using yuzu that seams very interesting is the hyuganatzu... but impossible to get i think.  :)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on November 26, 2017, 12:47:35 AM
I believe Hyuganatsu is probably a hybrid between Buntan (pomelo) and yuzu. However, there's no information about whether it demonstrates any unusual cold hardiness.

I planted a pomelo and yuzu right next to each other so hopefully in a few years I can try to see if any of the seeds turn out to be a hybrid.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 26, 2017, 02:35:35 AM
an old link about Tadanishiki
http://web.archive.org/web/20160504014613/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog.html?page=2 (http://web.archive.org/web/20160504014613/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog.html?page=2)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Heinrich on November 26, 2017, 04:39:15 AM
The first one is definitely not a Yuzu. Some papeda, probably ichangensis.

Indeed, the plants are very different. Beside the differences already mentioned, the first plant has distinctive pale green leaves. Further, the citrusy smell of crushed leaves is not as perceivable as in the true Yuzu.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on November 26, 2017, 09:53:13 AM
Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 26, 2017, 02:19:04 PM
@Heinrich where did you buy the plants? Are they from Hrn Meeder?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Heinrich on November 27, 2017, 09:16:54 AM
Eugen Schleipfer
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on November 27, 2017, 01:39:44 PM
also keine Yuzu Strada Montana :)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Heinrich on November 28, 2017, 03:58:47 AM
can't be Yuzu Strada Montana, because my plant isn't mature yet.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on December 18, 2017, 06:35:49 PM
I just picked a fruit off the tree

(https://s7.postimg.cc/9zt6s5h6v/IMG_20171218_145750.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9zt6s5h6v/)

I tasted it and it actually wasn't all that bad, like lemon and Clementine, but very dry (like a rough lemon). It was full of seeds, but I could see eating these in a survival situation or foraging while on a nature hike.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2018, 02:58:26 AM
Hello everyone! Any one knows what variety is yuzu nº3? It's a good one? Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on August 13, 2018, 05:45:37 AM
It is selected and named by French citrus guru Alias

Citrus junos yuzu n°3 R-18°c maturité:OCT-NOV qualité: XXXXX
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Radoslav on August 13, 2018, 10:24:32 AM
So,

1. it is not strange to buy citrus seeds from seedless cultivar, seedless cultivars have seeds too, but very few, for example 1 seed per 20 fruits.

2. Yuzu does not grow true to type from seed.

3. Because of 2. each village has usually its own cultivar.
Lines are called kei

Important selections are:


1.木頭系(きとう)Kitō-kei (kitō)
2.海野系(かいの)Umino-kei
3.早生種の「山根系」Yamane-kei  やまねゆず(はやしげる)Yamane yuzu (haya Shigeru)
The Yamane - kei was selected in Mr. Yamane 's garden in Anan City.  Fruits are large  and flat.
山根(やまね)
4.平の香(たいらのかおり)Hira no ka (tai-ra no Kaori)
seedling which seems to originate from Yuzu in Kinno village, Naka gun, Tokushima prefecture.
The shape of the fruit is somewhat height compared with the conventional type of Yuzu, and the concave ring around the fruit part protrudes considerably in a disk shape, the peel is yellow orange thick , the fragrance is strong.
5.物部系  Monobe-kei
6.種なしの (多田錦(ただにしき)) Tada nishiki
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on August 13, 2018, 10:38:06 AM
2. Yuzu do not grow true to type from seed.

I think I read somewhere that Yuzu is polyembryonic, which would mean it strongly produces mostly nucellar seeds.

However, even if that were not the case I would still expect Yuzu to produce relatively true to seed if pollination did not come from a different variety.

Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2018, 10:50:44 AM
It is selected and named by French citrus guru Alias

Citrus junos yuzu n°3 R-18°c maturité:OCT-NOV qualité: XXXXX
So this is a good variety right? Thank's!
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2018, 06:07:42 PM
I found a lot of info here: http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=279&sid=5239860da0fe7ec288f7e20915910f30 (http://forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=279&sid=5239860da0fe7ec288f7e20915910f30)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2018, 06:24:05 PM
http://www.yuzupassion.com/all-about-yuzu (http://www.yuzupassion.com/all-about-yuzu)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2018, 06:29:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=4u2Pa98J6dw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=4u2Pa98J6dw)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on September 04, 2018, 08:06:13 PM
If anyone wonders what the Yuzu aroma is like, it's like a mix of mandarin orange, satsuma mandarin, sour marmalade orange (C. aurantium), and lemon all combined together. There's a lesser note (maybe 25%) of grapefruit in there, and a very slight but discernable note of guava. There's also something very pungently deep and "spicy" about the fragrance of Yuzu, which is probably one of the first things you'll notice when you smell it. It's a very unique citrus smell.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on September 04, 2018, 09:20:04 PM
I once had a Yuzu tree,  I remember it as a very sour fruit, literally packed with seeds and very little juice..   I noticed with interest the Okinawan Lime in Louisport post.  I lived on Okinawa for a couple years and never seen a single orange tree of any type.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on September 04, 2018, 09:59:07 PM
A video some of you may be interested in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUq2AVLEn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUq2AVLEn8)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on September 05, 2018, 04:54:13 AM
A video some of you may be interested in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUq2AVLEn8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUq2AVLEn8)
WOW! What a great video, so inspiring! Thank you very much! I already have 2 yuzu kito, 3 sudachi and one dekopon...  ;D
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on September 06, 2018, 12:18:12 AM
Yes, indeed a good video!

Louis, are your yuzu trees already in fruiting age?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on September 06, 2018, 03:49:26 AM
Yes, indeed a good video!

Louis, are your yuzu trees already in fruiting age?
No they are vey small. I buy them on DAVAO.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on September 06, 2018, 07:06:34 AM
Adavo has Sudachi? Are you sure? I have been there three weeks ago -no Sudachi. Real Sudachi. Hanayuzu is not Sudachi, that's false.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on September 06, 2018, 10:20:40 AM
Adavo has Sudachi? Are you sure? I have been there three weeks ago -no Sudachi. Real Sudachi. Hanayuzu is not Sudachi, that's false.
No, my sudachi is not from ADAVO. I got it from other place. And of course hanayuzu is not sudachi. I think mine are real because they came from seeds from Japan.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 23, 2018, 05:01:21 PM
Here is a list of Yuzu and related Yuzu cultivars in Japan:
`Tochikei yuzu' and `Zai rai kei yuzu' are traditional cultivars of `Yuzu'. `Mukaku yuzu' is a seedless cultivar, while `Yuzu' have seeds in the fruit. It may be considered that `Mukaku yuzu' might have
originated from mutation of `Yuzu'.
Source : https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e607/9a2c6c30fc584b57f780a1470c7daac18e17.pdf (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e607/9a2c6c30fc584b57f780a1470c7daac18e17.pdf)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on October 24, 2018, 08:53:18 AM
Here is a list of Yuzu and related Yuzu cultivars in Japan:
`Tochikei yuzu' and `Zai rai kei yuzu' are traditional cultivars of `Yuzu'. `Mukaku yuzu' is a seedless cultivar, while `Yuzu' have seeds in the fruit. It may be considered that `Mukaku yuzu' might have
originated from mutation of `Yuzu'.
Source : https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e607/9a2c6c30fc584b57f780a1470c7daac18e17.pdf (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e607/9a2c6c30fc584b57f780a1470c7daac18e17.pdf)
Hello my friend. Do you grow yuzu? Thank's!
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 24, 2018, 03:15:07 PM
Hello my friend. Do you grow yuzu? Thank's!

Hello Luis, not yet but I saw your interest and I think it's a good try. So I will try to get one.
If you told me before, I would have get it when I visited Japan.
I will ask my Japanese friends if they can find the seedless variety `Mukaku yuzu'.
If you grow it from seed, from what I read it takes long time to fruit perhaps 10 years.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on October 24, 2018, 03:20:07 PM
Is Mukaku yuzu the same as tada nishiki?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 24, 2018, 06:04:27 PM
Is Mukaku yuzu the same as tada nishiki?

It seems to be different Mukaku yuzu is a yuzu with a genetic abnormality making it seedless.
Tada nishiki is a hybrid of yuzu with seedless small fruits.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 24, 2018, 06:35:36 PM
Is Mukaku yuzu the same as tada nishiki?

It seems to be different Mukaku yuzu is a yuzu with a genetic abnormality making it seedless.
Tada nishiki is a hybrid of yuzu with seedless small fruits.
Could you please provide a link
 I read many times elsewhere that Tada nishiki is a large fruited seedless Yuzu and  assumed that it is just a variety of Mukaku
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on October 25, 2018, 02:11:42 AM
Is Mukaku yuzu the same as tada nishiki?

It seems to be different Mukaku yuzu is a yuzu with a genetic abnormality making it seedless.
Tada nishiki is a hybrid of yuzu with seedless small fruits.
Could you please provide a link
 I read many times elsewhere that Tada nishiki is a large fruited seedless Yuzu and  assumed that it is just a variety of Mukaku
Yes, that's what I thought – hence my question.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 25, 2018, 12:51:02 PM
However, what we pick up this time is "Yutako Tada" called Yuzu. Have you heard of the name Tada Nishiki? I knew for the first time I ate this sweet.

What is different between Tada Nishiki and ordinary yuzu is the amount of sprinkle juice. Normal citrus fruit juice is about 18% of the whole, Tada Nishiki surpasses 30%! It is surprising that even this same citron has a difference this much! What is raising this citron is a contract farmer in Okutamiwa, Hyogo prefecture, using high-quality Tada Nishiki obtained locally.

It is sweeter and smaller than seeded Yuzu.
Perhaps there are many varities, I don't know

Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Radoslav on October 25, 2018, 12:55:14 PM
Is Mukaku yuzu the same as tada nishiki?

It seems to be different Mukaku yuzu is a yuzu with a genetic abnormality making it seedless.
Tada nishiki is a hybrid of yuzu with seedless small fruits.
Could you please provide a link
 I read many times elsewhere that Tada nishiki is a large fruited seedless Yuzu and  assumed that it is just a variety of Mukaku

Yes,

Mukaku (無核) is just a word for seedless.

There is
Mukaku Kishu (無核紀州)
Mukaku yuzu
Mukaku sudachi
Mukaku kabosu

It is just general title.

on other hand,

Tada nishiki yuzu
Mushi mukaku sudachi
Yushi mukaku sudachi
Sobonokaori kabosu

are names of specific seedless cultivars.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 25, 2018, 01:34:21 PM
So fruit is smaller but juicier.

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygMFwbV8/yuzu.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygMFwbV8)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 25, 2018, 02:40:41 PM
So fruit is smaller but juicier.
Well I'm sure there would be more juice if all that space inside wasn't taken up by seeds.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 25, 2018, 03:45:11 PM
Some people in Europe do have it, it is larger than an average seeded Yuzu and of course since there are no seeds,it has more juice.
It is not a Yuzu hybrid.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 25, 2018, 04:21:10 PM
Some people in Europe do have it, it is larger than an average seeded Yuzu and of course since there are no seeds,it has more juice.
It is not a Yuzu hybrid.

All the pictures I see on Japanese blogs and scientific references (like the paper I posted above) say it's smaller 80g vs seeded 130 g, and that it has a slightly different texture, a bit more sweet. Perhaps those in Europe are a variety made in Europe or who knows what cross.

Quote
(1) The fruit weight of seedless yuzu was about half of yuzu's, however, the former is seedless and its yield of juice reached to 30% being twice of the latter's. (2) The acid-sugar ratios of mature-green and mature-yellow seedless yuzu juices were 3.29 and 2.08, respectively, and those of yuzu juices were 1.20 and 2.44

This in plain words means the juice harvest is the same. Seedless yuzu has 30% juice but half size of seeded Yuzu who has 18% juice. Perhaps this is the reason in Japan seeded yuzu is the most cultivated. They also use the skin (oils, extracts, bath etc), so a bigger harvest from seeded yuzu, more cash revenue. Also seedless yuzu is less vigorous.

There is an improperly named, ONI Yuzu who is big and can be also seedless. This is actually not an yuzu, but a hybrid of ichangensis.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 25, 2018, 04:28:40 PM
No, it comes directly from Japan, as well as Oni  and Lion Yuzu, look at French forums for more information.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on October 25, 2018, 05:16:35 PM
Some people in Europe do have it, it is larger than an average seeded Yuzu and of course since there are no seeds,it has more juice.
It is not a Yuzu hybrid.
Yes but infortunately it's the best kept citrus secret...  ::)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 25, 2018, 05:58:50 PM
Unfortunately the Japanese strain of CTV was brought with it.


Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Radoslav on October 26, 2018, 02:21:59 AM
In fact that scientific article about comparison is quite a nonsense, it is hard to compare yuzu, Ilya correctly used word "average", yuzu do not grow true from seed and there are loads of cultivars, with great variation of size. Yuzu Kito is considered the biggest one, but there are cultivars with half of his size. The diameter of yuzu varies from 4 to 10 cm, depending from cultivar.
Here is yuzu which came from former USSR to former Czechoslovakia selection under name  yuzu no. 1 -754.
It has very small fruits and lot of seeds, but juice has great taste, sweet/sour mix of lemon and mandarin.


(https://i.postimg.cc/jWX2TCHx/citrus-Yuzu-s.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWX2TCHx)

In picture from net you can see comparsion of Hana yuzu 花ユズ, Hong yuzu aka yuzu kitó 本柚子 and Shishi yuzu 獅子柚子 (citrus pseudogulgul).

(https://i.postimg.cc/F78DbHJH/Hanayuzu-Hong-yuzu-Shishi-yuzu-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F78DbHJH)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: mikkel on October 26, 2018, 02:26:13 AM
Tada Nishiki fruit in Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx (https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx)

someone in France with a seedless Yuzu
http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50 (http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on October 26, 2018, 03:04:33 AM
In fact that scientific article about comparison is quite a nonsense, it is hard to compare yuzu.

I don't belive the article is a nonsense. It refers to Japanese yuzu, what is grown in Japan. Of course from yuzu there are many variations, but few cultivars. So what I looked is strictly Citrus junos. Sure if people start to grow it from seeds after 20 years we would have many variations. The seeded yuzu în Japan is mostly grafted with variations based on location.
There is one paper with yuzu and it's hybrids with DNA markers whuch list most used cultivars.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Radoslav on October 26, 2018, 03:25:48 AM
In fact that scientific article about comparison is quite a nonsense, it is hard to compare yuzu.

I don't belive the article is a nonsense. It refers to Japanese yuzu, what is grown in Japan. Of course from yuzu there are many variations, but few cultivars. So what I looked is strictly Citrus junos. Sure if people start to grow it from seeds after 20 years we would have many variations. The seeded yuzu în Japan is mostly grafted with variations based on location.
There is one paper with yuzu and it's hybrids with DNA markers whuch list most used cultivars.

As I wrotte before :
3. each village has usually its own cultivar.
Lines are called kei

Important selections are:


1.木頭系(きとう)Kitō-kei (kitō)
2.海野系(かいの)Umino-kei
3.早生種の「山根系」Yamane-kei  やまねゆず(はやしげる)Yamane yuzu (haya Shigeru)
The Yamane - kei was selected in Mr. Yamane 's garden in Anan City.  Fruits are large  and flat.
山根(やまね)
4.平の香(たいらのかおり)Hira no ka (tai-ra no Kaori)
seedling which seems to originate from Yuzu in Kinno village, Naka gun, Tokushima prefecture.
The shape of the fruit is somewhat height compared with the conventional type of Yuzu, and the concave ring around the fruit part protrudes considerably in a disk shape, the peel is yellow orange thick , the fragrance is strong.
5.物部系  Monobe-kei
6.種なしの (多田錦(ただにしき)) Tada nishiki

In Japan, there is a strong tradition to grow citrus from seeds.
For example parents sow the seed in backyard, when child is born and they know that when the child become adult, the tree will start to fruit.
For example, in Kochi prefecture you have at least 7 different yuzu (citrus junos) cultivars cited in scientific work marked as Kochi 1 .... 7.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on October 26, 2018, 07:14:49 AM
Tada Nishiki fruit in Europe
[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx[/url] ([url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx[/url])

someone in France with a seedless Yuzu
[url]http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50[/url] ([url]http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50[/url])
Yes but no one is selling plants of it...  :-[
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on October 26, 2018, 08:23:06 AM
Tada Nishiki fruit in Europe
[url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx[/url] ([url]https://web.archive.org/web/20160703172020/http://www.nielsrodin.com/blog/2014/12/02/19-Tadanishiki-yuzu-sans-p%c3%a9pin.aspx[/url])

someone in France with a seedless Yuzu
[url]http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50[/url] ([url]http://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=460&hilit=tada&start=50[/url])
Yes but no one is selling plants of it...  :-[


The French somehow are not too eager to share their rare citrus. Either I get a 'no' or no answer at all. Of course, not all are like that but If I had the seedless yuzu I would be sharing it all over Europe - the more the merrier.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 26, 2018, 09:07:42 AM
But probably you are not eager to get Japanese tristeza  virus with it😊
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Jloup27 on October 26, 2018, 09:10:06 AM
Quote
The French somehow are not too eager to share their rare citrus. Either I get a 'no' or no answer at all. Of course, not all are like that but If I had the seedless yuzu I would be sharing it all over Europe - the more the merrier.

I am French and I will share it if I had :).

I have a project of Yuzu orchard (for fruit production) but I had lost interest in Tada Nishiki because considered less good although it is more juicy by contrast.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Florian on October 26, 2018, 11:09:27 AM
I did not mean to offend any French , we are good neighbours ;) :). And of course, I do not want tristeza.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on October 26, 2018, 11:53:31 AM
Florian,
In the case of this variety, it is a Belgian problem, not French😈
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Luisport on October 26, 2018, 01:36:12 PM
Quote
The French somehow are not too eager to share their rare citrus. Either I get a 'no' or no answer at all. Of course, not all are like that but If I had the seedless yuzu I would be sharing it all over Europe - the more the merrier.

I am French and I will share it if I had :).

I have a project of Yuzu orchard (for fruit production) but I had lost interest in Tada Nishiki because considered less good although it is more juicy by contrast.
I just like to have one tree for the rarity of it not any business thing...
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 27, 2018, 05:23:00 PM
The fragrance of Yuzu for me smells like a mixture of Seville Orange (C. aurantium) and lemon, with something a little more pungent/deep about it. The fragrance is mostly in the rind. There's something reminiscent in it of Satsuma mandarin (a slight aromatic terpene or pine-needle like element). The inside has just a little bit of grapefruit in it, with a barely perceptible hint of guava.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on November 08, 2018, 06:44:49 PM
I received my Yuzu. Hope it's a good variety.


(https://i.postimg.cc/9rDvNFpC/DSC-0444.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rDvNFpC)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 08, 2018, 09:38:54 PM
Lebmung your Yuzu tree has SERIOUS thorns.  It must have been grown from seed.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: SoCal2warm on November 08, 2018, 10:33:50 PM
Lebmung your Yuzu tree has so SERIOUS thorns.  It must have been grown from seed.
New growth on Yuzu, especially young plants, have lots of big thorns. One of my trees (small to medium sized) has thorns that are more than 2 inches long.
These things could pop a car tire.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Citradia on November 09, 2018, 06:58:21 AM
I don’t have yuzu, mine froze to death the first winter, but my nansho dai dai had long thorns like that. It was from seed, not grafted.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Radoslav on November 09, 2018, 07:12:45 AM
As Millet correctly stated, big thorns are typical for juvenile non fruiting citruses.
I know only few cultivars, which have big thorns and fruits, one is Mandared.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on November 09, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
Lebmung your Yuzu tree has so SERIOUS thorns.  It must have been grown from seed.

The plant is grafted. I bought it from a reputable seller, which confirmed me the plant is original and I can expect flowers next year.
Yuzu started to be very popular in Europe, there is one plantation with 8000 plants in Spain, established 3-4 years ago. They claim that Japanese horticulturists visited and tasted the fruit and the quality is the same like in Japan.
And yes the thorns are very big, like 8 cm, a strong nail.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 09, 2018, 11:50:32 AM
My smallest Yuzu, but large fruits, very small thorns

(https://a.radikal.ru/a17/1811/b7/11aaa58aad1a.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)
(https://b.radikal.ru/b28/1811/8b/8a796cb9480e.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)

Ready for Yuzucello
(https://d.radikal.ru/d17/1811/9b/b05980a4dec7.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Millet on November 09, 2018, 03:26:31 PM
Ilya11 is your Yuzu fruit shown above mostly juice or seeds?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 09, 2018, 04:58:52 PM
Juice is also present, in a proportion  I would say 70:30 to the seed's volume

(https://b.radikal.ru/b19/1811/58/c951f5c1c445.jpg) (https://radikal.ru)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: maesy on November 09, 2018, 05:52:08 PM
Ilya, are these pictures from this season?
Your fruits are much ahead of mine.


(https://i.postimg.cc/0bwBNPDc/IMG-20181109-150806.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0bwBNPDc)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on November 10, 2018, 03:29:28 AM
What are you going to do with all those seeds?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 10, 2018, 03:53:40 AM
Yes, they were made this week, we had a very hot summer here.
Usually I use the seeds as pectin source for Yuzu marmalade, but probably it is not necessary, since Yuzu internal membranes are almost entirely pectin.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Sylvain on November 10, 2018, 06:56:15 AM
Looking for triploids?  ;)
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Ilya11 on November 10, 2018, 08:19:24 AM
Exactly, last year probably had one, but not 100 % sure
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on November 10, 2018, 03:39:37 PM
The oil from the crushed seeds is a very good biostimulant to spray your plants.
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: Sylvain on November 11, 2018, 05:47:36 AM
Source(s)?
Title: Re: Yuzu... my new obsession!
Post by: lebmung on November 13, 2018, 11:53:05 AM
I didn't look for any research on this. I saw some products labeled as biostimulants made of citrus seed extracts, perhaps grapefruit.