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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 05:45:23 AM

Title: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 05:45:23 AM
 I'm predicting some serious damage to our project here in Lakeland FL. All my trees that are wrapped with a heat lamp I'm sure will be fine but the trees I planned on protecting with burn barrels are in serious trouble I think. The problems began right away. We have a freeze warning for our area from 3am to 9am so I set my alarm at 1am thinking I would have a good jump start on the freeze. I was shocked to see my thermometer reader next to my bed saying 31 already. I assume we hit 32 around midnight. It's 5:30am as I write this. It took much longer to get the burn barrels going than I had anticipated. It took an hour and a half. So by 2:30 my temp gauges throughout my property were showing 28-29 degrees. It's been holding 28-29 degrees for three hours straight. Now when I went to bed at 10 pm we had a good gusty wind and the forcast was for a decent wind which I need to make good use out of my burn barrels. When I went outside at 1am it was dead still. I haven't felt a breeze all night. Temperature at my trees is only doing good near burn barrel. Opposite side is showing 28 degrees. My water hoses for saftey we're nearly froze at 3 am. Luckily I got them flowing. I think we have another 3 hours of serious freeze left tonight. I'm not expecting things to turn out well. This freeze was so much harder than any forcast model I follow. Usually the forcast are very close for my area. Tough night, I'll be ready for bed in a few hours and make a new plan as we still have two more nights of this. Going to make changes to my overall project as well. Good luck everyone in the path of this freeze.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 06:28:15 AM
It's now nearly 6:30 am and I'm seeing 27.3 degrees on my property. Four hours now at 29 or less... Things I didn't protect such as citrus and avocado, Bacon and Mexicola, will be tested for cold hardiness.  I didn't protect citrus because the forcast wasn't predicting this significant of a freeze. I'll continue to update this thread..
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on January 04, 2018, 06:46:01 AM
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Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: 00christian00 on January 04, 2018, 06:58:26 AM
So do water helps against freezing? Won't it risk of freeze the water too and do even more damage? Or you are keeping them on until the temps rise?
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: KarenRei on January 04, 2018, 07:04:51 AM
Wish we had buttons to express reaction to posts; you'd have my sympathy, C24mccain (I'm well used to freezes sneaking up on me here in Iceland for my outdoor plants  :(  )

00christian00: In addition to the water already having some warmth - the air has to take the heat out of the water first - it takes a lot of energy for water to freeze.  So first the water has to drop to the freezing point, then it has to freeze through, and only then does frost start progressing into your plants. As long as the surface isn't fully frozen, it can't cool below 0įC/32įF underneath it. So if you keep providing water (generally mist), you can limit damage.

Spraying water on orange groves is a common emergency frost protection tactic in Florida.  It only is effective against minor frosts, though, not hard freezes. In fact, if you do it wrong you can actually accelerate damage (evaporative cooling, excessive ice buildup, etc).
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on January 04, 2018, 07:06:34 AM
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Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 07:59:07 AM
It's almost 8am and the temps are already back to 32-33. I  have well water which I estimate is around 55 degrees (I'm assuming, it could be warmer, feels warm when it below 30 degrees lol). I have pondered using it but I have never setup a system for frost protection. I'm only a home owner with lots of variety I am growing. I'm video recording some of the events before during and after the freeze. In about a week I will post the video here showing how I saved some things, my battles last night, and what ends up dead. Time will tell. Still have two more freeze nights and I expect they will be as bad as last night. This time I will have burn barrels repositioned and running well ahead of time.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 08:09:48 AM
Yikes, sorry to hear this.  Do you have an artesian well, water is always 70-72f year round, no pump needed just turn it on and flood your grove.  I heard from PIN that someone in Winter Haven has planted over 3000 mangoes recently.  They are farther inland than you, I wonder what they are doing.  Hoping for the best for you.

Winter Haven was under a freeze warning as well last night. Being east of me they have a better microclimate by a couple degrees however I'm sure they saw temps under 32 and probably for a long duration.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on January 04, 2018, 09:36:59 AM
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Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 10:55:50 AM
I too am just a homeowner.  I do this by myself, no help, no employees.  I cannot emphasize how important an artesian well is for my tropical plants, probably couldnít seriously grow them without it and not good if you have a city lot.  This is what my heliconias looked like this morning with the help of the Artesian well.  They do not like temps below 50 degrees and they look perfectly fine.  You could probably raise the temperature of your property if you left it running into your pond.  My artesian well is quite deep at 375ft., cost me 5,000 last year but I can sleep without worrying about my cold sensitive tropical plants.
(https://s17.postimg.cc/yzylgu87v/F0_E6534_C-1197-487_B-_B88_B-908_BFCDBFF4_A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yzylgu87v/)
.

I'll have to do some research on this as I know nothing about this kind of well. Things are really getting ugly outside now. Signs of damage showing up on many things. Citrus leaves look bad already. I've heard mango leaf damage is slow to show so I'll be waiting on that. Avocado leaves look fine so far.. new growth on lychee looks bad but old looks good so far, same with longan. Starfruit trees don't look very happy. Everything that was covered and had a heat lamp did well as expected. Time for bed finally... See what tonight brings in round 2.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: chrobrego on January 04, 2018, 03:07:24 PM
Yeah, it really sucks to work so hard and have your precious trees gutted by the cold; just part of zone pushing I guess. I took a different route and decided not to stress it these two nights -- what survives will survive. I posted the results of the first night and will have a better idea after a couple of days. I love growing tropicals, but I'm not willing to have a freakout anymore whenever the temp drops to 30F --- below 30 and yes, freak out time. I'm going to make a couple of changes too once I find out what will survive these hits.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 04, 2018, 04:35:51 PM
4pm walk around looked bad. Things really took a beating last night. The trees I have protected under cover and heat lamp are fine but i will either protect them next two nights and give them away or pull the plug, literally and leave them to nature's wrath. Going to have a complete change in direction after this. Not sure what that is yet but I have a lot of fertile ground to work with from all the work I put in here.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: ericalynne on January 04, 2018, 07:43:57 PM
C24, I feel for your losses. I undoubtedly will have some too. I lost my greenhouse in Irma, so had no place to protect many plants. I've been working to have fewer trees and not so many who need major frost protection. I sold a lot of my really tender tropicals last year. It is too exhausting to try to cover or heat everything when you're also working a full time job.
Erica
9a
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: dwfl on January 04, 2018, 09:00:12 PM
4pm walk around looked bad. Things really took a beating last night. The trees I have protected under cover and heat lamp are fine but i will either protect them next two nights and give them away or pull the plug, literally and leave them to nature's wrath. Going to have a complete change in direction after this. Not sure what that is yet but I have a lot of fertile ground to work with from all the work I put in here.


http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.msg274879#msg274879 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.msg274879#msg274879)

^ For those interested to see what c24mccain is talking about!

C24, I know it's early but what direction do you think you'll go? Maybe more of the tropic snow/FL Prince peaches? Lakeland can get whacked pretty hard with these fronts.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 05, 2018, 06:28:13 AM
4pm walk around looked bad. Things really took a beating last night. The trees I have protected under cover and heat lamp are fine but i will either protect them next two nights and give them away or pull the plug, literally and leave them to nature's wrath. Going to have a complete change in direction after this. Not sure what that is yet but I have a lot of fertile ground to work with from all the work I put in here.


[url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.msg274879#msg274879[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=22838.msg274879#msg274879[/url])

^ For those interested to see what c24mccain is talking about!

C24, I know it's early but what direction do you think you'll go? Maybe more of the tropic snow/FL Prince peaches? Lakeland can get whacked pretty hard with these fronts.


Whatever lives we will let live. I did no protection here on the second night other than leaving things covered, I did not add heat. We have other things going on and protecting everything just takes to much time. Interesting that this nights forcast for us was 27* for the low but here at almost 6:30 we are only at 31. So the first night was way worse than forcast while this second night was way better than forcast. We have a lot of very fertile area to grown in because of the massive amount of wood chips everywhere. We are talking about moving a few things, and growing most garden type stuff, perhaps some market gardening. A lot of what I'm doing is based on my religious beliefs so I have decided I can wait until the new earth to have tropical trees with no worries. Until then I'll stick to things that survive or grow fast enough to be used as an annual like papaya and some bananas. Our plans are really unsure until we see what survives in a few weeks to a month.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 05, 2018, 07:22:59 AM
It's just after 7am and we are hitting a low of 30 for the night. Not sure what time we hit 32 but I know it was 32 at 4am when I woke up briefly, and it was 37 when I went to bed at 9pm. Still a lot of freezing hours.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Tropheus76 on January 05, 2018, 09:42:57 AM
I am with you on change. Since I am going away for awhile soon, my wife has forbade me to replace anything that dies from the cold between now and then. Having enough other hobbies, I am ok with this...for now. When I get back though I will be replacing anything that dies with cooler weather trees since from what I have been reading, this is not a freak cold winter but the start of a cooling trend for the next 20 or so years because of sun activity similar to the last mini-ice age back in the 17-1800s. What I will be doing is adding trees that don't care.

Think of building up a collection of exotic loquats, maybe a new persimmon and apple varieties or two(already been adding crab apples who probably love this weather). For several years now I have been removing citrus as it dies so no big loss there. I might look into some of the berries that they have a zone or two north of us too. I have a year to research it all and wont be in a rush even then since I wouldn't be able to get cool stuff until spring anyway. Note I am not pulling up my trees, just replacing the ones that don't make it due to cold or whatever.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: greenman62 on January 05, 2018, 01:30:23 PM
I am with you on change. Since I am going away for awhile soon, my wife has forbade me to replace anything that dies from the cold between now and then. Having enough other hobbies, I am ok with this...for now. When I get back though I will be replacing anything that dies with cooler weather trees since from what I have been reading, this is not a freak cold winter but the start of a cooling trend for the next 20 or so years because of sun activity similar to the last mini-ice age back in the 17-1800s. What I will be doing is adding trees that don't care.

Think of building up a collection of exotic loquats, maybe a new persimmon and apple varieties or two(already been adding crab apples who probably love this weather). For several years now I have been removing citrus as it dies so no big loss there. I might look into some of the berries that they have a zone or two north of us too. I have a year to research it all and wont be in a rush even then since I wouldn't be able to get cool stuff until spring anyway. Note I am not pulling up my trees, just replacing the ones that don't make it due to cold or whatever.

the climate looks to be changing radically.
summers here have been hotter (i data graphed 50 years)
,but the couple of cold frost a year we get seem to be colder.  some parts of the country are drier etc...

the first 3 years i started growing fruit trees we didnt have a freeze, or , maybe 1 that just hit 32F.
i had 3yr papaya 20ft tall.
now, every year they freeze almost to the ground.
i have several Jujube, and even an Indian juju seedling about 3ft that didnt seem too bothered by the 28F last week.
i have several mulberry, pomegranate, fig, feijoa, longan
acerola usually dies to the trunk, but comes back to fruit every  year.
i may get some cold-hardy Kiwi next
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: achetadomestica on January 05, 2018, 08:32:39 PM
I am scared enough that I even looked at greenhouses. There are so many factors with the winters down here. And
even though there are countless studies which contradict each other I wish someone would admit I don't know how cold it will be
or I don't know how many hurricanes will hit next year. I like to read the daily record for my area every day. Today's record low was 25F
After we had 4 hurricanes the so called Experts said we were in a trend and to expect increased hurricane activity for the next 20 years.
This was followed by the longest stretch on record of no Florida landfall hurricanes???
Luckily I planted a bunch of trees 3 years ago and we didn't have a frost until this year. The more sensitive trees I try to grow in a pot until
they reach a 15 gallon and then I try to plant in the spring so the trees can get established. Another thing I try to do is I water 3x a week in
October 2x a week in November and 1x a week in December. My thought is the trees need a dormant period. If a tree gets hit with frost when it is dormant it will cope better then a tree that is flushing and growing? I planned to water 2x a week in January and 3x a week in February. I also plan to resume fertilizing in mid January to beginning of February. This plan didn't work 3 years ago when we had a 30F for 3 hour night in the end of February. I lost a lychee that year that was flushing and was already out of dormancy. I also lost a fig that was flushing, both of those trees were colder the previous year but were dormant. I water heavy the night before the cold and plan on the temps being 2-5 less then the forecast. Plan for the worse. I also have tortoises and I have to deal with them. Hopefully this is the last night below 40F, but the
last few years the coldest nights have been mid January to mid February? The Earth is 4.54 billion years old, after 3 years of data I can't
predict crap
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on January 06, 2018, 06:46:50 AM
🗯
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 06, 2018, 08:28:16 AM
Never made it to freezing on the third night as the low was 34. Now we will wait and see what the real damage is.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: zands on January 06, 2018, 09:27:23 AM
I also have tortoises and I have to deal with them. Hopefully this is the last night below 40F, but the
last few years the coldest nights have been mid January to mid February? The Earth is 4.54 billion years old, after 3 years of data I can't
predict crap

Peak winter is January 20th or so. One month after the winter solstice which is the darkest day with the least daylight hours. This is similar to the hottest time of day not being when the sun is highest in the sky (~noon) but one hour afterwards and in the hours after that.

So I agree with your mid-January to mid-February being the coldest days and nights or at least having the most potential to be the coldest.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Orkine on January 06, 2018, 11:35:08 AM
Never made it to freezing on the third night as the low was 34. Now we will wait and see what the real damage is.

Keep us posted.
Saw the videos.
Hope you are pleasantly surprised with more plants making it through.

Do look into the artresian well idea.  If you have an aquifer under pressure with fresh water at your location, it may be a source of water at a fairly constant temperatures that will be warmer than temperatures in a cold spell.

I only have a few trees, not enough to make the investment in a deep well.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 07, 2018, 08:04:56 AM
The artesian well is a bit to costly for me. Here is a list of mistakes I have made in my project. This is for those interested in zone pushing. Obviously not planting sensitive Tropicals is out of the question for many who just love them to much.

1. Should have kept sensitive Tropicals in the same area.
2. Fewer Tropicals, tell self no.
3. Do not put to much faith in forcast timing, duration, and minimum temp.
4. If using burn barrels realize that its only going to be good for one tree per barrel.
5. Place barrel north or northwest of tree.
6. Place close enough to get maximum effect without burning tree. (Vary by wind)
7. Start small fires in barrels before the freeze hits so your not scrambling to get fires going during freezing temps.

Things I'd did right:
1. Wrapped trees and put 250 watt heat lamp in. Worked very well but could probably get away with 125watt.
2. Have plenty of wood at burn barrel so your not scrambling to wheelbarrow more in the dark.
3. Split wood burns best.
4. Have water hose nearby keeping wood chips wet for safety. We had no issues of fire but because we were behind we almost had the lines totally freeze. So use the hose frequently.
5. My Glenn mango is doing the best so far cause I positioned the barrel northwest of tree even though I could have been a little closer.

I know burn barrels will work if done properly. We still however have many factors in our lives and are choosing to make new plans without so much stress and work for cold protection. We will wait to see how things turn out before finalizing our plans. Oh I have a few mango grown from seed that were exposed 100% to the cold and they look much worse than those I protected on the first night. I'm thinking some of these trees are going to survive. We will see.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: achetadomestica on January 07, 2018, 01:52:06 PM
The artesian well is a bit to costly for me. Here is a list of mistakes I have made in my project. This is for those interested in zone pushing. Obviously not planting sensitive Tropicals is out of the question for many who just love them to much.

1. Should have kept sensitive Tropicals in the same area.
2. Fewer Tropicals, tell self no.
3. Do not put to much faith in forcast timing, duration, and minimum temp.
4. If using burn barrels realize that its only going to be good for one tree per barrel.
5. Place barrel north or northwest of tree.
6. Place close enough to get maximum effect without burning tree. (Vary by wind)
7. Start small fires in barrels before the freeze hits so your not scrambling to get fires going during freezing temps.

Things I'd did right:
1. Wrapped trees and put 250 watt heat lamp in. Worked very well but could probably get away with 125watt.
2. Have plenty of wood at burn barrel so your not scrambling to wheelbarrow more in the dark.
3. Split wood burns best.
4. Have water hose nearby keeping wood chips wet for safety. We had no issues of fire but because we were behind we almost had the lines totally freeze. So use the hose frequently.
5. My Glenn mango is doing the best so far cause I positioned the barrel northwest of tree even though I could have been a little closer.

I know burn barrels will work if done properly. We still however have many factors in our lives and are choosing to make new plans without so much stress and work for cold protection. We will wait to see how things turn out before finalizing our plans. Oh I have a few mango grown from seed that were exposed 100% to the cold and they look much worse than those I protected on the first night. I'm thinking some of these trees are going to survive. We will see.

Would you consider a greenhouse? It seems like it could make life easier?  You would have to pick smaller trees to grow
but there are plenty of tropical trees to choose from? Also it seems like there are plenty of trees that would thrive more with
less direct sunlight in our summers
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: pineislander on January 08, 2018, 07:25:07 AM
I cannot emphasize how important an artesian well is for my tropical plants, probably couldnít seriously grow them without it and not good if you have a city lot.   My artesian well is quite deep at 375ft., cost me 5,000 last year but I can sleep without worrying about my cold sensitive tropical plants.

What is the flow rate and salinity of the water coming out of your well?
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on January 08, 2018, 11:52:13 AM
🗯
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 08, 2018, 12:45:13 PM
The artesian well is a bit to costly for me. Here is a list of mistakes I have made in my project. This is for those interested in zone pushing. Obviously not planting sensitive Tropicals is out of the question for many who just love them to much.

1. Should have kept sensitive Tropicals in the same area.
2. Fewer Tropicals, tell self no.
3. Do not put to much faith in forcast timing, duration, and minimum temp.
4. If using burn barrels realize that its only going to be good for one tree per barrel.
5. Place barrel north or northwest of tree.
6. Place close enough to get maximum effect without burning tree. (Vary by wind)
7. Start small fires in barrels before the freeze hits so your not scrambling to get fires going during freezing temps.

Things I'd did right:
1. Wrapped trees and put 250 watt heat lamp in. Worked very well but could probably get away with 125watt.
2. Have plenty of wood at burn barrel so your not scrambling to wheelbarrow more in the dark.
3. Split wood burns best.
4. Have water hose nearby keeping wood chips wet for safety. We had no issues of fire but because we were behind we almost had the lines totally freeze. So use the hose frequently.
5. My Glenn mango is doing the best so far cause I positioned the barrel northwest of tree even though I could have been a little closer.

I know burn barrels will work if done properly. We still however have many factors in our lives and are choosing to make new plans without so much stress and work for cold protection. We will wait to see how things turn out before finalizing our plans. Oh I have a few mango grown from seed that were exposed 100% to the cold and they look much worse than those I protected on the first night. I'm thinking some of these trees are going to survive. We will see.

Would you consider a greenhouse? It seems like it could make life easier?  You would have to pick smaller trees to grow
but there are plenty of tropical trees to choose from? Also it seems like there are plenty of trees that would thrive more with
less direct sunlight in our summers

So far I have decided not to build a greenhouse. We will see what happens in the future.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 16, 2018, 09:34:40 PM
Ok, things two weeks after the freeze are not nearly as bad as I thought. Even though I didn't use any heat the second night of the freeze nothing under cover was harmed. I was about to do a video update but we have another serious freeze coming Wednesday night so I'll wait. I wasn't going to protect anything but things changed since most of my main trees are still doing pretty good. I have some seedling mangos that are toast, and the Indian jujube looks toast, the guava took a big hit but will probably make it. Starfruit trees must be tough as I'm surprised to see little wrong with them. I wasn't going to protect anything anymore but some things have changed so I am protecting some things for tomorrow night. Basically we may be selling our property so I want to keep as much alive for property value as possible. Nothing is for sure right now but it won't hurt to save these trees. I have much better plan of defense put in place for tomorrow night so I won't get caught unprepared again. Expecting lows of 27-28 degrees tomorrow night with freezing temps 6-8 hours which is similar to the freeze two Wednesday's ago. Hope everyone fairs well the next few days.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: achetadomestica on January 16, 2018, 10:27:44 PM
I bet you a nickel your indian jujube comes back hopefully above the graft if it is grafted.
Both my trees really got slammed by Irma and I cut them back to a stub and both are already
over 6'. They even flowered this winter but no fruit this year.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 17, 2018, 06:04:13 AM
I had thought the Indian jujube was a very cold Hardy tree, perhaps not, however this is it first year. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 18, 2018, 06:43:08 PM
Things went really well tonight although it got super cold. We hit 32* at 3am and had a low of 25.3 and we were under 27* for at least 2 hours. I had a good breeze that really helped my burn barrel setup and I got the barrels lit instantly this time and about 45 minutes early. Unfortunately the low temps really hammered my unprotected starfruit. They look very sad. They had taken the last freeze very well but temps of 25 were unexpected so I did not protect them. We will see if there is any life in either of them. The rest of the leaves on the guava are fried as I didn't protect it. Everything under cover with a heat lamp did fine. We will see in a week or so how the unprotected avocado trees took the cold. They look fine today minus the damage from the last freeze. I did do a video while running the burn barrels. I'll get it loaded and posted asap. Hopefully things turn out warmer tonight than expected.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 19, 2018, 06:31:25 AM
We were under a freeze warning last night that never happened. Our low was 34 and currently 38 at 6:30. I hope this is our last serious round of freezes this year. It's been 8 years since this area has had freezes like the two we had this year. Should have plenty of chill hours for my non Tropicals. Enjoy the warm up next couple weeks.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 19, 2018, 06:59:30 AM
Here is the video update from the other night when we got down to 25. It basically shows some of the frost protection I was doing. Sorry about the poor quality at times in this video. I'm a bad camera man, my wife does much better but she was sleeping in the warm house.

https://youtu.be/EJ6-mF9z73Y
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: shot on January 19, 2018, 09:41:29 AM
I watched video ,you might not have been as cold as you think.You need a radiation shield for thermometer it can give inaccurate readings especially in radiation freeze.Maybe you can find some old oil pot burners up their,they used them in citrus groves. you can burn old cooking oil in them like from restaurants they also diffuse heat more efficient than barrels.Don't use so much wood at one time,it going mostly straight up.

Good tough avocados like you have,I bet they do well
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: WGphil on January 19, 2018, 11:28:22 AM
Return stack heaters are the way to go

The radiant heat is greater with less fuel.  Use fuel oil in them 

With all the citrus gone should be able to pick a few up cheap and they may be some abandoned you can clean up

Our school gave an excused absence to kids that fired groves the night before. Acres lit up at once was a sight.  Getting paid to skip school was great also.

Set up in a pattern they do well in lower wind conditions. They radiate heat well for moderate winds.

 
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: pineislander on January 19, 2018, 08:31:21 PM
I know of some used smudge pot/orchard heaters available in SW Florida if anyone is interested in making an offer PM me.
This is exactly what they look like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zbZoZu9r1c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zbZoZu9r1c)
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on January 20, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
Hey thanks guys for the information on those heaters. I will look into them. I used burn barrels because I have a ton of wood but used oil will be easy to come by as well. Many in my area were reporting these low temps but I was unaware that radiant cold can give a false reading. Thanks for the information all.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: TnTrobbie on February 06, 2018, 08:21:29 PM
Anyone else getting antsy :) ? I just wanna cut the dead, dried wood off my mangoes and see if sprouts above the root stock emerge. But that can open a window for disease on an already stressed plant. Waiting sucks. My Cotton Candy is already pushing growth above the graft union.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: WGphil on February 07, 2018, 12:43:34 PM
The video is a return stack. Where they are lighting it the lid has a series of vent holes.  We always set to two holes as that gave the most heat for the least fuel

When the stack turns red you have more heat sent sideways than other choices.

Try to get the stack caps as well to keep rain out. Some come attached.



Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: OCchris1 on February 08, 2018, 02:16:48 AM
Orchard heater or smudge pots are great- especially with the "cap". I have a few of these but have never needed them...I'm paranoid that my "grove" will get smoked on some freak cold snap. Chris
(https://s9.postimg.cc/za8w91ttn/IMG_3271.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/za8w91ttn/)
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on February 08, 2018, 07:21:56 AM
I looked these return air smudge pots up and the cost is pretty expensive ($200) compared to a $15 burn barrel. If I ever find them much cheaper I may get a few. They certainly better than burn barrels but the cost is simply to much. Also I don't want to have upset neighbors cause of the smell.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: WGphil on February 08, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
Return stacks should be plentiful around abandoned groves

The extra pipe makes it a return stack and burns cleaner and longer.

Not much smoke when they are lit due to design

What we called a smudge pot had no stacks and smoke more

You got some time to hunt and people in citrus prolly know where some are for the taking
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on February 08, 2018, 12:47:34 PM
Return stacks should be plentiful around abandoned groves

The extra pipe makes it a return stack and burns cleaner and longer.

Not much smoke when they are lit due to design

What we called a smudge pot had no stacks and smoke more

You got some time to hunt and people in citrus prolly know where some are for the taking

I'll keep my eye open for any. Thanks
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: j-grow on February 08, 2018, 06:41:10 PM
What brand is that shiny one in the picture?  How much are those?  ........ and lastly does anyone know proper spacing from heater to heater to protect a grove?

Thanks
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: WGphil on February 09, 2018, 08:23:37 AM
In a grove where everything matches the heaters were set every second tree every other row.
 
I have seen them set with more in the northwest corner and thinned out through the rest of the grove.  On a windy night the thinking was it would protect the trees first hit and carry the heat through the grove
Windy is much different than dead calm and frost conditions so you can set up wrong with bad info

In table oranges the set was s but different but every row had heaters and spacing was offset so one row was staggered with next row so all trees were covered.  These were much smaller groves with a higher value.


Look at your property and set the pattern with the Nw always going to get the worst and understand if the glow is on the foliage on one side it may not be on the other   



Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: j-grow on February 09, 2018, 03:12:20 PM
Thanks very much
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: AlwaysHotinFL on February 10, 2018, 09:33:46 PM
Iím in same area as Corey, wasnít able to protect any of my stuff as I was out of country.

Hereís the rundown:

Crispy, AKA Probably dead:
Venus mango
Pickering
Seed grown avocado
Jakaranda
Garden stuff: tomatoes, squash, watermelon etc, etc, etc

Damaged, but with pruning probably ok:
6/7 of my different dragon fruit cuttings
Jaboticaba
Everbearing Mulberry x 2
Pineapples
Garden: Carrots

Alive, and mostly thriving!:
Peach
Hood pear
Tangelo
LSU Purple Fig
Brogdan Avocado
Garden: Kale, Bok Choy, Kohlrabi, Strawberries

For me: Life is too short to get caught up too much in a hobby. Like Corey, and probably more intensively, Iím focusing on other things that matter way more.

Blessings!
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: C24mccain on February 10, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Hey Casey, how are the mango and lychee trees looking in your area? I haven't seen a green mango tree in Lakeland other than my own. Most things turned out far better than I originally thought. I'll make a trip to Ft Myers area in early March to get 4 or 5 trees but no mangos as I'm finding them to be more sensitive than other things. Right now I'm planning on getting a second atemoya, a second White sapote, a third avocado (late season variety),  and I'm unsure about one or two other trees. I'm not sure on varities yet. Things are waking up here a few weeks to a month earlier than last year. Having a super warm February. Just plants garden a week ago and will be planting various garden things throughout the property over the next month. Make sure you stop by for some peaches in April.
Title: Re: Making changes after this freeze
Post by: AlwaysHotinFL on February 17, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Thanks Corey, Iíll have to do that

Most of the mangos are toast, even large well established trees. There are 2 that Iíve seen still alive, 1 is right next to a house. Of course all the papayas went down too. I thought everybodyís bananas were gone but Iím glad to see them all pushing out new green leaves. The lychees are doing amazing pushing tons of blooms, guess they loved the cold weather. I seem to remember reading that they need cold anyway to fruit well.

Godspeed on the new refocused project, hopefully less work and still great fruit!