Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: luc on September 30, 2012, 06:33:11 PM

Title: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: luc on September 30, 2012, 06:33:11 PM
For unknown reason my 2 Santol died a few years ago . The trees were already 4 - 5 meters tall . I kinda blame it on being right next to the dispersing area of a septic tank ???
Fortunately I gave a plant to a fellow collector , this has flowered 2 x no fruit set yet.
Today I got a call from a guy that I met several years ago asking me to stop by and identify some of the fruit trees I gave him.

To my surprise the first I noticed was ( see pic of the leave ) an other Santol , gorgeous tree , 6 - 7 meters tall , he said this one also flowered 2 x , no fruit set .

Now I want to make some airlayers , not the easiest on these trees , appears to take about 6 months for the roots to grow .

Is there any other tree this could be grafted on ???
(http://s14.postimage.org/mnq3ni8zx/DSCN2378.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mnq3ni8zx/)
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 30, 2012, 06:38:16 PM
look like to me
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on September 30, 2012, 06:52:01 PM

(http://s10.postimage.org/alk3m0hj9/DSCF4684.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/alk3m0hj9/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/8kn4ntrr5/DSCF4683.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/8kn4ntrr5/)
It looks like santol and leaves go red before they drop.The ones in parks around here get to be real giants.The pictured one is around 20 years old.Bangkok and Manila are 2 elite cultivars that have big fruit and good flesh amount.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 30, 2012, 07:12:19 PM
how's the taste on santol?  I don't remember hearing a description of the better types...or any fir that matter!
thanks in advance santol eaters.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: TropicalFruitHunters on September 30, 2012, 07:25:46 PM
The ones I've tasted in Thailand were pretty good.  I object to the way the flesh clings to the seed...worse than any Spanish lime I've had.  To me...it is more work than it is worth.  Most use the flesh in a dessert instead.  Although this is very time consuming as well.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: tabbydan on September 30, 2012, 07:47:59 PM
Adam: I like Santol.  Admittedly if you are the tipe of person who doesn't like sourness Santol might not be the fruit for you.  Generally a Santol is more sour than sweet, but the sweet types have a fairl amount of sweeness too.

They are nice and juicy, sour sweet and they have the appearance of being a strange giant mangosteen (not related) a big yelllow (some are orangish, even some with blush tones) fruit with translucent white segments inside.  Each segment has a large D shaped seed and the straight line on the D is pretty narrow (the two ends almost barbed) so swallowing a seed would be a hideous mistake.

Like the Baccurea it is odd to see Thai people still growing this fruit (because currently the Thai seem obsessed with sweet and eschewing sour) but it isn't that hard to get in Thailand.

I would always buy one if I saw one (especially the sweet types).  It's not a top tier fruit for me but pretty enjoyable.

Sucking the pulp off the seeds of Santol is pretty enjoyable in my opinion, and there is a much better seed to pulp ratio than mammonicillo (also mentioned in this thread but no relation) also you wont abraid your tounge sucking the pulp off (unlike mammonicillo).

I got a tree once that was labled Santol and had the same leaf clustering.... it fruited for me and turned out to be wampee!

It was a free gift from another grower (so I can't be upset) and in my area Santol would probably refuse to flower/fruit
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on September 30, 2012, 08:20:27 PM
There is a sweet/sour balance in favor of sweet in good types, and fruit is to about 2lbs in better types.There arwe 2 types of flesh eaten on most fruit.The tenacious white flesh clinging to the seeds which is most bountiful around withered seeds or poorly formed ones.Between the rind and white flesh around the seeds is a drier yellowy pale flesh that is quite palatable and good in the sweet types.
They are a tree of the seasonal tropics and are partly deciduous with leaves going bright red before they drop.In Thailand they are common in Isaan province where they are enjoyed in many ways including grated in dishes and sauces and with salt.They yellowy flesh beneath the rind discolors after cutting reasonably quickly.Red santol is supposed to be pretty good but I am more familiar with yellow types and seedlings of manila,bangkok and various porrer quality yellows.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on September 30, 2012, 08:50:56 PM
For unknown reason my 2 Santol died a few years ago . The trees were already 4 - 5 meters tall . I kinda blame it on being right next to the dispersing area of a septic tank ???
Fortunately I gave a plant to a fellow collector , this has flowered 2 x no fruit set yet.
Today I got a call from a guy that I met several years ago asking me to stop by and identify some of the fruit trees I gave him.

To my surprise the first I noticed was ( see pic of the leave ) an other Santol , gorgeous tree , 6 - 7 meters tall , he said this one also flowered 2 x , no fruit set .

Now I want to make some airlayers , not the easiest on these trees , appears to take about 6 months for the roots to grow .

Is there any other tree this could be grafted on ???
([url]http://s14.postimage.org/mnq3ni8zx/DSCN2378.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimage.org/image/mnq3ni8zx/[/url])


Luc, if my memory serves me right, you said long time ago that your santols were being attacked by leaf cutter ants. Could that be the reason they died? Closest fruit relative would be langsat. Both are in Meliaceae family, but i doubt you can graft onto them. If you can get santol seeds that would be your best bet to graft onto. BTW solitary santol trees usually don't fruit. A lot of them are self sterile and need cross pollination.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on September 30, 2012, 09:01:47 PM
thank u MikeT,

that was a great description of a fruit I won't soon get taste soon.
I can always dream
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on September 30, 2012, 09:03:54 PM
thank u MikeT,

that was a great description of a fruit I won't soon get taste soon.
I can always dream

You're not missing so much Adam. It's not a top caliber fruit. This tree is mostly valued in its homeland as a lumber tree. Fruits are just icing on the cake. Lumber is top notch and very fast growing.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: tabbydan on October 01, 2012, 09:02:04 AM
that was a great description of a fruit I won't soon get taste soon.
I can always dream

If you take a trip to Thailand when it is in season it isn't too hard to get.  It isn't sold on every street corner (you have to look a little bit) but it is available.

I'd agree it isn't a top tier fruit but I'd say it was a second tier fruit.  It's juicy and enjoyable.  My main problem with Santol is that they have a thick rind and involve more effort to open than most fruits.

You might get an approximation by looking for frozen ones.  I saw frozen ones being sold in Chicago years back.  Check in a nearby large city and look for Thai grocery stores they sometimes stock frozen fruits (avoid frozen longkong though, because freezing causes the seeds to leach out their bitter flavor into the surrounding flesh, santol shouldn't be as bad because of the hard covering on the seeds)
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: GwenninPR on October 01, 2012, 01:05:04 PM
We have them here in PR, but they are just seedling varieties.  I have tried them a few times , from different trees and I decided to eliminate the ones I had growing.  Just not worth the room.  The fruit was too sour for me.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: luc on October 01, 2012, 02:00:39 PM
For unknown reason my 2 Santol died a few years ago . The trees were already 4 - 5 meters tall . I kinda blame it on being right next to the dispersing area of a septic tank ???
Fortunately I gave a plant to a fellow collector , this has flowered 2 x no fruit set yet.
Today I got a call from a guy that I met several years ago asking me to stop by and identify some of the fruit trees I gave him.

To my surprise the first I noticed was ( see pic of the leave ) an other Santol , gorgeous tree , 6 - 7 meters tall , he said this one also flowered 2 x , no fruit set .

Now I want to make some airlayers , not the easiest on these trees , appears to take about 6 months for the roots to grow .

Is there any other tree this could be grafted on ???
([url]http://s14.postimage.org/mnq3ni8zx/DSCN2378.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimage.org/image/mnq3ni8zx/[/url])


Luc, if my memory serves me right, you said long time ago that your santols were being attacked by leaf cutter ants. Could that be the reason they died? Closest fruit relative would be langsat. Both are in Meliaceae family, but i doubt you can graft onto them. If you can get santol seeds that would be your best bet to graft onto. BTW solitary santol trees usually don't fruit. A lot of them are self sterile and need cross pollination.


What a memory Oscar !! Yes ants loved them , the trees kept on recuperating , could be that at the end they were to weak ....
So , would it be better to make air layers from both trees or is several from one OK ( for cross pollination )

Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 01, 2012, 07:34:25 PM
If you make air layers you will have 2 clone trees and they won't cross pollinate. You need 2 sexually different trees.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 01, 2012, 07:37:02 PM
On summer trips to Thailand i see santol fruits in practically every fruit stall. Super common there. They like a variety called Bangkok that has huge fruits, size almost of a grapefruit. I noticed that Phillippine people here cook the fruit, rind and all, and include in their stews.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: FloridaGreenMan on October 01, 2012, 08:53:25 PM
I had them at Lancetilla Gardens in Honduras and they were too tart and not worth growing at all. They have fruited in South Florida. 
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 02, 2012, 02:28:49 AM
I had them at Lancetilla Gardens in Honduras and they were too tart and not worth growing at all. They have fruited in South Florida.

Tartness is not the problem. There are ones that taste good. The problem is clinginess to the seed. It's even worse than quenepa (spanish lime). I call santol the lollypop fruit; you have to suck on it for a long time! It's a great kiddie fruit, just like quenepa.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: luc on October 02, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
If you make air layers you will have 2 clone trees and they won't cross pollinate. You need 2 sexually different trees.

What do you mean Oscar ? Santol is monoecious right ?
The way I understand sexually different is male and female ?
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on October 02, 2012, 06:35:30 PM
Most fruiting santols I see are single trees without others around.There is only one in my neighborhood and it gets loaded. One on the side of the road I know is about the only tree of any sort for a mile or 2 because of wall to wall sugarcane and it is very fruitfull.My impression is that trees are self-fertile.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: luc on October 02, 2012, 06:48:17 PM
Most fruiting santols I see are single trees without others around.There is only one in my neighborhood and it gets loaded. One on the side of the road I know is about the only tree of any sort for a mile or 2 because of wall to wall sugarcane and it is very fruitfull.My impression is that trees are self-fertile.

Mike , so you think they are like the Abiu , several flowerings before they set fruit .
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 02, 2012, 07:36:55 PM
If you make air layers you will have 2 clone trees and they won't cross pollinate. You need 2 sexually different trees.

What do you mean Oscar ? Santol is monoecious right ?
The way I understand sexually different is male and female ?

Yes it's monoecious, has both male and female parts, BUT in many trees the male pollen from one tree is not able to fertilize it's own female part = self sterile. This happens with many plants. Cacao is another example of this. It's well explained in the Prosea book that many santol trees are self sterile.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on October 02, 2012, 07:39:17 PM
Luc I really don't know about that because I have not monitored small trees through to fruiting.I just see trees around with fruit on.For such a large tree I think it is important to prune unless you have lots of space.The better 2 types I mentioned are worthwhile but certainly not elite fruit and it is not worth it to plant the small fruited sourer types.Who was it that had the rare combination of bad characters in the mobolo? It is unusual to find mobolo with no redeeming features but with santol here at least, you can find sour, small fruited types with uneven ripening without looking too hard.I reckon be sure you have a good one before investing too much room.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 02, 2012, 07:41:37 PM
Most fruiting santols I see are single trees without others around.There is only one in my neighborhood and it gets loaded. One on the side of the road I know is about the only tree of any sort for a mile or 2 because of wall to wall sugarcane and it is very fruitfull.My impression is that trees are self-fertile.

Mike , so you think they are like the Abiu , several flowerings before they set fruit .

Sorry Mike, but you're wrong about this. You could wait for an eon Luc, and they won't fruit. Sometimes solitary trees do fruit = self fertile. Other trees are totally self sterile, you need additional trees for pollen or you will get ZERO fruits. And other trees are partially self fertile, meaning you will only get very small quantity of fruits. I have this situation on my farms, as on one farm i have solitary tree and it made like 2 fruits in last 20 years! Other farm i have 2 trees planted side by side and they make plenty of fruits.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on October 02, 2012, 07:59:03 PM
Santol (Seedling) 8/10
Rev NQ's Edible Fruits
Update: 1151 days 13hrs
Comments: -

Some are flavourless, some are too acid, but get a good seedling or cultivar and they are EXCELLENT. Maybe not to rival a mangosteen, but similar.

you suck off the flesh from around the seed, like a sour fruit drop, and spit it out

very well suited to the dry tropics. beautifully formed tree, worthy just as ornamental


Sun/Shade: Full Sun

Water Given in: Winter


Pollination: Self Pollination

Fertiliser or Organics Used: good garden soil

Pest Control:

Never seen fruit fly in it. Never seen spoilage in the dry tropics, in wet tropics (cairns) they can have fungal problems

Above is a local review that seems to fit my observations.I really don't know what is true and can only report what I have seen.



Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 02, 2012, 08:24:09 PM
Please don't get me get out the Prosea book. Read it for yourself Mike. Probably best book on Asian fruits.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: Mike T on October 02, 2012, 08:33:12 PM
Don't get it out Oscar I will believe you and there is no need for dueling references on this one.There is a common mis-apprehension around here that trees are self fertile.Even the trees are fooled.
Title: Re: Tell me this is Santol
Post by: fruitlovers on October 02, 2012, 09:48:53 PM
Don't get it out Oscar I will believe you and there is no need for dueling references on this one.There is a common mis-apprehension around here that trees are self fertile.Even the trees are fooled.

You may have enough trees in your area planted close enough to keep them all pollen happy.  In a place like Mexico where trees is very rare it's going to be a very different story.
I researched this topic quite a bit because of a solitary tree i have that never fruits, but flowers like crazy. Most books say they are self pollinating or don't mention anything about pollination mechanism of this species. Only Prosea book it seems got this one correctly.