Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: SoCal2warm on January 21, 2019, 12:13:17 AM

Title: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: SoCal2warm on January 21, 2019, 12:13:17 AM
Triengen is Northwest of Lucerne, in Northern Switzerland

Thomasville Citrangequat on left, Keraji bushy one on right
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKFbKJTX/triegen-citrangquat-keraji.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKFbKJTX)
They are both up against a wall, and it looks like they can be covered during the Winter.

closer view of Thomasville Citrangequat
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGZM9xtb/triengen-Thomasville-Citrangequat.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGZM9xtb)

Yuzu
(https://i.postimg.cc/KKvb3yfN/triengen-yuzu.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KKvb3yfN)


Swingle Citrumelo in Schaffhausen, Northern Switzerland, North of Zurich
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hj7gyzwf/Schaffhausen-Citrumelo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hj7gyzwf)
It was planted in the ground two and a half years before this picture was taken and had not been protected, relatively exposed. Suffered light leaf damage the second winter but recovered again very strong, but had not yet had flowers.


Ichang papeda in Erfstadt, just outside of Cologne, Germany (still zone 8a)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJPqJ8VY/Erfstadt-Ichangpapeda.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJPqJ8VY)


German language forum: http://www.exotenundpalmen.de/t1228f5-quot-winterharte-quot-essbare-citrus.html (http://www.exotenundpalmen.de/t1228f5-quot-winterharte-quot-essbare-citrus.html)


(I don't think hardy citrus normally grows well in these areas, but can if it's in an ideal or protected spot)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 24, 2019, 05:58:24 AM
Hahaha...I'm surprised seeing some of my citrus here!

The pictures are from 2017 and the plants have grown quit a bit since then. You are right, I cover the thomasville and the keraji in winter and also use a heating cable for very cold nights. The plants itself would not need any artifical heating, but I dont want to loose the fruits that are left on the trees.
I still grow more varieties of citrus. The hardiest that I dont protect are dunstan, hsr899a and rusk.

Marcel




Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on January 25, 2019, 07:06:47 AM
Maesy what is your HRS899a? Is ist the hybrid by Bernhard Voss? I would be very surprised if this variety would turn out to be that hardy. Do you have an adult plant that blooms?
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 25, 2019, 10:20:43 AM
It is a US852 seedling from Voss.
It flowered last year for the first time but no fruits yet. I dont expect the fruits to be very good, since the leaves still carry the strong poncirus flavor, but they are unifoliate.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on January 25, 2019, 11:26:54 AM
If we are really talking about clone 899A the fruit is good, very nice in fact. Sweet without any bittereness or resin aroma. All other clones I know are from my opinion not edible. My 899J has flowered oncein 2017. 899A flowered at least 7 years ago but mostly produces uncomplete "male" flowers.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 25, 2019, 07:12:53 PM
But have you still harvested some fruits from your tree?
I would appreciate if you could post a picture for comparing.

Marcel
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 26, 2019, 08:30:08 AM
My 899a in may 2018.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xcdbrnQQ/Screenshot-2019-01-26-21-09-55-684-com-miui-gallery.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcdbrnQQ)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 26, 2019, 08:45:00 AM
My thomasville and keraji also in mai

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJWKbW1T/IMG-20180526-104955.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJWKbW1T)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on January 26, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
My HRS899 which I also have got from Bernhard Voss produces fruits from time to time. Enclosed a Picture of a fruit of 2018. It is not edible.  I am sorry - don't know exactly what variety of HRS899 it is - I think it could be a "J" Who can help? This variety fo my opinion is nearly as hardy as Poncirus trifoliata.
 
(https://i.postimg.cc/nMy29Sdb/DSC08435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nMy29Sdb)

Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Ilya11 on January 26, 2019, 04:42:21 PM
J is very different, it is entirely monofoliate
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on January 27, 2019, 02:34:52 PM
Hey, Ilya, thank you for checking. I had planted also the varieties A, F and K for survival tests.. Only this one of the photo survive. So which of them (A, F, K) than it could be?
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Florian on January 27, 2019, 04:43:22 PM
I have a K which is also monofoliate. Btw. I thought they went from A to R not only K.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: mikkel on January 27, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
899 A : Monofol., Blatt wie Mex.Limette, glattrandig, aber Mandarinen-Blattgeruch, sehr schöner  Wuchs, dekorativ, Jungsämling mit 10cm Größe hat `97/98 -8°C überlebt !
899 B : Mono.-trifoliat unregelmäßig, welliger Rand, gesägt, Jungsämling 97/98 genau so wie auch  E, G, K, L, M, und N erfroren - Abveredelungen waren schon vorher gemacht und werden  diesen Winter z.T. ein zweites Mal Frostgetestet.
899 C : Mono-trifoliat, sehr kleines (1x2cm), glattrandig abgerundetes Blatt
899 D : Trifoliat-monofoliat, leicht gezähnt, sehr schlanke Blätter, sehr buschig, wüchsig, hat          ebenso wie 899A und 899J ´97/98 als kleinster Jungsämling überlebt!
899 E : Monofol., schlank, wellig, breiter und dünner als J, sehr dornig (4-5cm lang!)
899 F : Mono,-bi-trifoliat, Blatt glattrandig, mittelgroß, dünn,
899 G : Mono- bis trifoliat, abgerundet, sehr kleine Nebenblätter,
899 H : Meistens trifoliat, etwas stärker geflügelt,etwas breiteres Blatt als K
899 J : Monofol.,sehr schlank,zäh-dick,spatelförmiges Bl.,aufrechter Wuchs.
899 K : Meistens trifoliat, mandarinenähnliche, glattrandig schlanke Bl.
899 L : Mono,-bi-trifoliat, schlankes Blatt, glattrandig
899 M : Blatt wie Hybrid 119 (Variabel, abgerundet, mono-trifoliat), groß(wie 119)
899 N : Monofoliat, kleineres, gerundetes Blatt
899 O : Trifoliat, sehr große Blätter, leichte Blattstielflügelung, wüchsig
899 P :Mono-bis trifoliat, gesägt
899 Q: Trifoliat, wüchsig, ähnlich "O".
899 R: Monofoliat gezähntes Blatt
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: mikkel on January 27, 2019, 05:50:01 PM
899 A: Monofol., Leaf like Mex.Limette, smooth-edged, but tangerine-leafy smell, very beautiful growth, decorative, 10 cm seedling has survived `97/98 -8 ° C!
899 B: Mono.-trifoliate irregular, wavy margin, sawn, seedling 97/98 as well as E, G, K, L, M, and N frostbitten - finishing was already done before and this winter will be partly released. a second time frost tested.
899 C: Mono-trifoliate, very small (1x2cm), smooth-edged rounded leaf
899 D: Trifoliate monofoliate, slightly serrated, very slender leaves, very bushy, vigorous, has survived as the smallest seedling as well as 899A and 899J '97 / 98!
899 E: Monofol., Slim, wavy, wider and thinner than J, very thorny (4-5cm long!)
899 F: Mono, bi-trifoliate, leaf smooth-edged, medium, thin,
899 G: mono- to trifoliate, rounded, very small stipules,
899 H: Mostly trifoliate, slightly more winged, slightly broader leaves than K
899 J: Monofilament, very slender, tough-thick, spatulate leaves, upright growth.
899 K: Mostly trifoliate, mandarin-like, smooth-edged slender leaves.
899 L: Mono, bi-trifolate, slender leaf, smooth-edged
899 M: leaf like Hybrid 119 (variable, rounded, mono-trifoliate), big (like 119)
899 N: monofoliate, smaller, rounded leaf
899 O: Trifoliate, very large leaves, light petioles, vigorous
899 P: Mono-to trifoliate, sawn
899 Q: trifoliate, vigorous, similar to "O".
899 R: monofoliate toothed leaf
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: mikkel on January 27, 2019, 05:57:13 PM
description from
https://web.archive.org/web/20120404023612/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20120404023612/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/)

first click on
"Die Citrusgärtnerei" to the left
then
 "Frosthärtere Citrus-und Poncirus-Hybriden,Jetzt mit neuen Züchtungen!"

then

M30 Sämlinge, 15 Selektionen!


there is no direct link
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on January 28, 2019, 06:11:21 AM
Thank you for the description of Bernhard Voss- I catched the direct link to this descritption: https://web.archive.org/web/20130106094639fw_/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/hrs.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20130106094639fw_/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/hrs.htm)   
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: mikkel on January 28, 2019, 06:13:47 AM
great!
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Florian on February 23, 2019, 06:37:04 AM
If only all winters were like this one. Where I live, the absolute has been around -5/-6C.
My ichangensis x sinensis is not impressed 8).
(https://i.postimg.cc/14fcCZfr/20190223-120738.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14fcCZfr)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: SoCal2warm on February 23, 2019, 06:57:17 AM
My ichangensis x sinensis is not impressed 8).
Looks good.


I've done some temperature measurements and found that the temperature near a house is about 4 degrees F warmer (that's 2.2 degrees difference in Celsius) than it is further away in Winter.
No doubt being surrounded by other plants also helps.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Florian on February 23, 2019, 10:17:45 AM
Yes, the temperature near the house is warmer here too. But it is not enough in a cold winter with extended freezes. Last year, I lost a Citrange only about a metre away (in the pic on the right where you can see a few leaves of the changsha I put in its place, which btw. also survived unprotected).
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on February 23, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/569QFtHV/IMG-20190222-170353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/569QFtHV)

My thomasville and keraji in perfect condition. I have picked some fruits of the keraji for fresh consumption nearly everyday for the last two weeks since I took off the cover. And there are still some left.
The maximum low inside was only -1.5°C, outside was maybe 5°C colder. No artificial heat.

The thomasville fruits are very jucy as always, but I want to leave them on the tree to get the full sweetness.
They are very decorative as well.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on February 24, 2019, 02:27:56 PM
I have 4 different 899-varities: A, E, F (or H) and J. All of them have flowered. A has spaeric fruits, sweet and mandarin-like. No off-taste-
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on February 24, 2019, 03:11:41 PM
Oh, that is interesting and exciting.
Zitrusgaertner, does my 899a look like yours?

I hope to get some fruits this year after it bloomed the first time in 2018.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on September 17, 2019, 12:39:50 PM
Enclosed some actual picturesof my HRS 899 bearing fruits. I pollinated some flowers with the New Zealand Citrus Variety  "Lemonade " - which bears great, citron-like,  sweet tasty, aromatic and juicy fruis. I will see what happened!

Now to the Pictures::

(https://i.postimg.cc/fJ7WdjtY/DSC08738.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJ7WdjtY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kB59V3CP/DSC08739.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kB59V3CP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkzQFnJS/DSC08740.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkzQFnJS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TK8kzgCN/DSC08742.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TK8kzgCN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2VndBJ7T/DSC08744.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VndBJ7T)

[(https://i.postimg.cc/hzqQg4HB/DSC08746.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzqQg4HB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XrzwMbjj/DSC08747.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrzwMbjj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/34H16T1y/DSC08748.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/34H16T1y)

According to mikkels posting dated 27 Jan 2019 my complete trifoliate HRS899 - showing tall winged trifoliate leafes could be an "HRS899 O" or an "HRS899 Q":

899 A: Monofol., Leaf like Mex.Limette, smooth-edged, but tangerine-leafy smell, very beautiful growth, decorative, 10 cm seedling has survived `97/98 -8 ° C!
899 B: Mono.-trifoliate irregular, wavy margin, sawn, seedling 97/98 as well as E, G, K, L, M, and N frostbitten - finishing was already done before and this winter will be partly released. a second time frost tested.
899 C: Mono-trifoliate, very small (1x2cm), smooth-edged rounded leaf
899 D: Trifoliate monofoliate, slightly serrated, very slender leaves, very bushy, vigorous, has survived as the smallest seedling as well as 899A and 899J '97 / 98!
899 E: Monofol., Slim, wavy, wider and thinner than J, very thorny (4-5cm long!)
899 F: Mono, bi-trifoliate, leaf smooth-edged, medium, thin,
899 G: mono- to trifoliate, rounded, very small stipules,
899 H: Mostly trifoliate, slightly more winged, slightly broader leaves than K
899 J: Monofilament, very slender, tough-thick, spatulate leaves, upright growth.
899 K: Mostly trifoliate, mandarin-like, smooth-edged slender leaves.
899 L: Mono, bi-trifolate, slender leaf, smooth-edged
899 M: leaf like Hybrid 119 (variable, rounded, mono-trifoliate), big (like 119)
899 N: monofoliate, smaller, rounded leaf
899 O: Trifoliate, very large leaves, light petioles, vigorous
899 P: Mono-to trifoliate, sawn
899 Q: trifoliate, vigorous, similar to "O".
899 R: monofoliate toothed leaf

This year fruits are only round and hairy, not large, rather like fruits of poncirus trifoliata. he tyear before I had only one fruit which has been shaped like a small pear. Seem thet fruit shape can differ sometimes.

Does anybody have an "HRS899 O" or an "HRS899"Q" in his collection and help me in Determination my HRS899 plant?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Millet on September 17, 2019, 09:39:39 PM
For a mature tree (it is flowering & fruiting)  it sure sure has a lot of thorns.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on September 19, 2019, 08:47:23 AM
Usirius, did you dare tasting the fruit last year?
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on September 19, 2019, 02:36:23 PM
@Millet - yes, it is as thorny as Poncirus....partially thorns are growing longer!

@Zitrusgaertner - last year I did not taste the fruit. In the years before I did so. The fruits do not taste quite as unpleasantly bitter as poncirus fruits, nor as resinous, but they are really nothing special. They contain very little flesh instead many seeds. Therefore I consider a cross with a juicy sweet citrus to be very promising in terms of fruit quality, the winter hardiness of this HRS 899 is similar to that of Poncirus trifoliata.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on September 29, 2019, 01:09:09 PM
My yuzu tree today
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9HZ6SHP/IMG-20190929-184919.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9HZ6SHP)

Some of the fruits
(https://i.postimg.cc/PP3GcsMM/IMG-20190929-184933.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PP3GcsMM)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on September 29, 2019, 01:20:44 PM
Here my keraji and thomasville with the sidewalls for winterprotection that I have put up yesterday.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CnJKXPvf/IMG-20190929-183421.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnJKXPvf)

Keraji fruits
(https://i.postimg.cc/5XHxSqCp/IMG-20190929-182110.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XHxSqCp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7CVQCjZR/IMG-20190929-182058.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7CVQCjZR)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Millet on September 29, 2019, 02:53:54 PM
Maesy, the side walls being white also greatly helps increase the tree's photosynthesis. Looks like you have taken good care of the two trees.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: lebmung on September 30, 2019, 06:38:12 AM
Maesy, the side walls being white also greatly helps increase the tree's photosynthesis. Looks like you have taken good care of the two trees.

Should be the wall black in winter and white in summer? That would act as a heat sink during the day and increase temperature few degrees during the night when is cold.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on September 30, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
Maesy, the side walls being white also greatly helps increase the tree's photosynthesis. Looks like you have taken good care of the two trees.
Thank you Millet. They have a very previleged spot at the south-west side of the house where there is not too much sun in winter. That may also help and give them a good rest.

Lots of things are possible if you give enough effort.   ;D
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 01, 2019, 12:59:52 AM
Should be the wall black in winter and white in summer? That would act as a heat sink during the day and increase temperature few degrees during the night when is cold.
I had that fleeting thought as well, but it would probably increase the heat differential between night and day, probably not such a good thing, we want the plants to seamlessly enter dormancy and not prematurely come out of dormancy.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: lebmung on October 05, 2019, 05:55:50 AM
Should be the wall black in winter and white in summer? That would act as a heat sink during the day and increase temperature few degrees during the night when is cold.
I had that fleeting thought as well, but it would probably increase the heat differential between night and day, probably not such a good thing, we want the plants to seamlessly enter dormancy and not prematurely come out of dormancy.

I think it would act as a thermal battery. I do it with black painted water bottles. You won't get new growth without sustained warm temperatures.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on October 22, 2019, 02:10:03 PM
Today the first fruit of my HRS899 seedling has fallen off. On the outside it looks very similar to Poncirus, the furry hair, the fruit size, the fruit colour....apart from that, the habitus, the spines and also the flowers have more in common with Poncirus than with any other Citrus.

Whereby I have not cultivated a normal Poncirus in the garden for some years, but only Flying Dragon, so I only have Flying Dragon as a basis for comparison.

left: Poncirus trifoliata 'Flying Dragon'

right: HRS899 seedling

(https://i.postimg.cc/DmwQ0zJT/DSC09289.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmwQ0zJT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Mvh19bs6/DSC09290.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mvh19bs6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj0gkyZ2/DSC09291.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj0gkyZ2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/d7nkc89T/DSC09292.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7nkc89T)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hQ8RN09k/DSC09293.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQ8RN09k)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JHM2HCkF/DSC09295.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHM2HCkF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXw0sPV0/DSC09294.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXw0sPV0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/06mvpxz5/DSC09296.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06mvpxz5)

After the opening came the surprise!

Poncirus FD: thin skin, relatively little pulp, orange-yellow color, many seeds

HRS899 seedling: thicker skin, relatively much pulp, greenish-yellow color, few seeds

Fragrance:

Poncirus FD - as we know it
HRS899 seedling: less PT scent, slightly citrus-aromatic

Taste:

Poncirus FD - pulpe: resinous, sticky, little juicy, almost unpleasantly sour, a little bit bitter
Poncirus FD -shell: extremely unpleasant

HRS899 seedling - pulpe: not resinous, not sticky (on the teeth), juicy, aromatic, slightly sweet, hardly unpleasant aromas
HRS899 seedling - shell: Aromatic, not more than 1/3 of the unpleasant taste of the FD fruit.

Conclusion: I was very positively surprised! After having been winter-hardy for about 15 years, it is more like a replacement for Poncirus for me, it is for me for climate zone 7b (maybe also for 7a or even colder zones, I couldn't test it yet) without winter protection, a citrus cultivation value with which lemonades and jam can be produced safely.

I pollinated several flowers with lemonade from New Zealand. I will sow all seedlings, also the freely flowered ones. Let's see if I have the space and the patience to bring them all up to flowerimg and fruiting maturity!


Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Bomand on October 22, 2019, 03:05:15 PM
Love the idea.....just not willing to take the risk😂😁😥
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: kumin on October 22, 2019, 03:35:31 PM
 Usirius, improved edibility while retaining cold hardiness is impressive!
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on October 22, 2019, 04:02:19 PM
Yes, I think so also! For me it resembles a Poncirus with much better fruit Quality.

The only thing is that the HRS899 seedling bears not as many fruits than Poncirus normally does. But maybe one reason is that it now is starting fruiting and from year to year it will bear more fruits - I will see. The other reason for this could be: The HRS899 seedling is growing below a big peach tree and because of this the HRS899 seedling wouldn't get as much sunshine as he'd get under unshaded conditions.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: lebmung on October 24, 2019, 05:56:06 AM
My yuzu tree today

in Switzerland you have cold temperatures I guess.
If a you have a freeze let's say -5 C , does the yuzu fruit get damaged before it's ripe ?

It's cold tolerance is it valid for the fruit as well?
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on October 24, 2019, 01:41:13 PM
I can not tell you for sure. They so far always matured before it went down to -5 degrees celsius.
If there is such a temperature forcast, I would either protect the tree or harvest the fruits. Anyway, the spot where the tree is growing is very sheltered and therefore a short freeze should not be a problem.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on October 25, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
Usirius, do you know which one of all those 899-cultivars you have. They are very differnt. I have 4 of them, but non has fruits resembling Poncirus. All fruits are smooth and shiny.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on October 25, 2019, 01:12:42 PM
@Zitrusgaertner...very interesting....are your four HRS899 cultivars also hardy to -17°C? How is the taste of the fruits? Which cultivars do you have?

I am not sure which cultivar I have. Maybe in my case only the rootstock survived, and I think it would be a HRS899 cultivar ;-).  Joking aside, it's definitely a HRS899 cultivar because the place of refinement is still clearly present and visible. Only which number it is....that is the question. The label is lost....

It was still quite in the early days, when Bernhard Voss started with citrus, I had helped him this time to refine everything received from USA, and was several days with him on site in village Jork in the region "Altes Land" (translated: "Old Country") in Northern Germany. In this time also the book of him "Citruspflanzen von Tropisch bis Winterhart", Humbach & Nemazal, 1997, ISBN 3-9805521-3-6 originated, with which my experiences flowed up to this time also.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on October 25, 2019, 03:11:31 PM
Btw, what is Bernard Voss doing today?
Has he lost his interest in citrus? There is not that much coming from him anymore.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on October 26, 2019, 03:26:32 PM
It came what was to be expected, the market for special citrus plants is simply too small, particularly nursery Otto Eisenhut in San Nazzaro (Suisse) by the spatial proximity to botanist and frost-hardy citrus lecturer Dr. Edwin Frey with frost-hardy citrus was long on the market. Bernhard Voß has exchanged plants for sale in the other nursery, but this business hasn't really gone that well. The Eisenhut nursery does not have Citrus as its main pillar, but many other special plants such as Camellias, Magnolia and much more, which he has propagated in Italy, and for which reason customers come by bus. Bernhard Voss has    Bernhard Voß has at times also a cooperation with the Grape nursery Steinmann (Sommerhausen, Germany) by selling grape vines at him in York and buying citrus plants in the Rebschule Steinmann. In the meantime, Bernhard Voß' main focus of activity has shifted to the special field of tree care. In addition, he also runs his pottery with individual handcrafted pottery products, which he sells at pottery markets. Citrus has become less of a secondary matter.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on October 26, 2019, 05:31:45 PM
@usirius
Thanks for explaination. I have always wondered.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on November 15, 2019, 07:13:11 AM
Bernhard Voss update
He does not work in his pottery any more but takes care of a big Citrus Collection and still works as an arborist. His nursery was damaged during a storm and he did not rebuild the tunnel. But you can meet him at the Vienna citrus-fair (Wiener Zitrustage) in Schönbrunn Castle im Vienna.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Tetrao on January 25, 2020, 08:59:47 AM
Hi,
also a swiss here. I am not sure if I should post this in the "trade" thread or the "swiss" thread, tell me if I should move it.
I am looking for seeds of cold hardy citrus, Poncirus trifoliata, to be grown outside in Zollikofen.

Anyone knows where I could buy or get some fresh seeds?
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 25, 2020, 09:32:49 AM
Hi and grüessti Tetrao

Welcome to the club!

I dont have any poncirus seeds, but what I have are dunstan citrumelo seeds/fruits. Dunstan is a hybrid between poncirus and pomelo.
Otherwise, the best place to buy any citrus in Switzerland is the nursery Eisenhut in ticino.

Marcel
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Tetrao on January 25, 2020, 03:15:01 PM
Hoi Marcel,
thanks!
And about the citrumelo: are they growing outside? are you in Luzern inside the city? And untill when do you have them available?

I wonder how many of the offspring will be based on apomixis and identical to the mother, and how many based on recombination...
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: maesy on January 26, 2020, 04:20:42 AM
Yes my dunstan is growing in ground. It is hardy to at least -15°c.
I still have some fruits left which contain usually between 5 to 10 seeds. You can have some if you want.
I live near Sursee, so if you want to come over and see my citrus in ground, you are welcome.
I still have some keraji and thomasville citrangequat fruits hanging on the trees as well.

Here you also can find lots of infornation about my trees and many others.
http://www.exotenundpalmen.de/t1228f5-quot-winterharte-quot-essbare-citrus.html (http://www.exotenundpalmen.de/t1228f5-quot-winterharte-quot-essbare-citrus.html)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Florian on May 27, 2020, 11:33:32 AM
Last week, I planted this Citrumelo Nr. 82, that I grafted myself, in my grandma's garden. My own garden is very small and she let me use this corner :). Citrumelo 82 is a selection made by Eisenhut nursery here in Switzerland for those who don't know this cultivar. Pics and description can be seen here: https://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=948 (https://www.forum-agrumes.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=948)

(https://i.postimg.cc/phrv99G0/20200522-145959.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phrv99G0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8frVH2VM/20200522-150004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8frVH2VM)
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on May 30, 2020, 03:42:06 AM
Thanks Florian for the posting. This hybrid actually seems to be one of the best hybrids selected so far. I will plant this one as well, I am still looking for a source of material (scions or plants). I have a copy of the Poncirus x Changsha seedlings that Bernhard Voss made in the early nineties. The version I have is tested hardy outdoors to -17°C without damage (it was not colder for me yet) and is reliably fruiting every year with fruits, whose skin has 1/3 to 1/4 Poncirin of Poncirus fruits, and the content not at all, pleasant citrus aroma, not sweet, but a bit tangerine-like, for juice, lemonade, jam in my opinion very suitable. I have posted about this several times already. One should take such selected hybrids as crossing partners for further breeding work...then maybe one day you will get a poncirin-free and yet hardy citrus!

Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on June 02, 2020, 06:46:36 AM
Thanks Florian for the posting. This hybrid actually seems to be one of the best hybrids selected so far. I will plant this one as well, I am still looking for a source of material (rice or plants). I have a copy of the Poncirus x Changsha seedlings that Bernhard Voss made in the early nineties. The version I have is tested hardy outdoors to -17°C without damage (it was not colder for me yet) and is reliably fruiting every year with fruits, whose skin has 1/3 to 1/4 Poncirin of Poncirus fruits, and the content not at all, pleasant citrus aroma, not sweet, but a bit tangerine-like, for juice, lemonade, jam in my opinion very suitable. I have posted about this several times already. One should take such selected hybrids as crossing partners for further breeding work...then maybe one day you will get a poncirin-free and yet hardy citrus!



Is your 899-Hybrid trifoliate or monofoliate? I have 4 of them. 899A and 899J are monofoliate. 899F an 899H are not. All of them flower.
 
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Till on June 14, 2020, 03:01:40 AM
Hello Ursirius,

the fruits of URS899 that you describe on page 2 in comparision with Flying dragon are they from the same tree from which you send me a fruit a few years ago? You offered a fruit via ebay that I bought. And subsequently we had intense contact via email. You also send me some files for copying.

I feel by the way quite guilty that I did not keep up our contact. I was very buisy shortly after our conversation (marriage, moving, new job, then baby) but I know that is a pure excuse for letting fall asleep our contact.

Regards,
Till
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on June 17, 2020, 05:45:38 AM
@Till
yes, this is actually the same tree from which you got a fruit back then and from which I photographed the fruit last year

By the way, after the fruit I gave you, the tree has stopped growing, so first not for a while, then a fruit has grown and now there are more and more fruits per season, I think now the tree is stable adult.

Don't worry that you didn't get in touch with me anymore, it happens, although I am glad that you can still remember me, and I regret that you didn't keep in touch. But it is just human and also due to capacity that one cannot keep all contacts alive with the same attention.

@ Zitrusgaertner

The tree bears stable trifoliate leaves, relatively large, i.e. larger than Poncirus trifoliata, slightly wavy.  I can post pictures which show the leaves, maybe you can compare them to your 899F and 899H .
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: mikkel on June 17, 2020, 07:06:48 AM
@usirius

here you can find Bernhards original description of the different types.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130106094639fw_/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/hrs.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20130106094639fw_/http://www.agrumi-voss.de/hrs.htm)

I think we posted about it on another forum.... :)

Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: usirius on June 17, 2020, 08:01:36 AM
@mikkel: Thanks, but this table is already well known, it doesn't help me, it is unfortunately too ambiguous to determine my hybrids exactly, and it doesn't contain any pictures. The only thing that might help here are specimens from people who still have them growing to compare with, so you can rule out what it is not, and maybe find what it is. Therefore the idea that @Zitrusgaertner with photos of his HRS899 F and HRS899 J and I make a comparison based on my photos together.
Title: Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
Post by: Till on June 17, 2020, 04:05:45 PM
@Ursirius
Thank you for your friendly answer! I`ll try to be less absent in the future. When your email adress has not changed I can keep up our contact via email.

Regarding your clone of HRS899, I was positively surprised that you did not find its fruits resinious. I remember that the fruit you sent me (the ebay-fruit) was similar resinous as I knew it from Poncirus. But I also remember a nice Citrus smell and a little bit mandarine taste with some sweetness besides relatively weak Poncirus smell and taste. Now, my fruit had already dried out a bit and it was as you wrote the first fruit ever. Did you observe that fruit quality improved over the years?

Perhaps an encouragement for breeding: All seedlings from your fruit were different and all seeds were monoembryonic. Some seeds were defective as we know it from other plant hybrids. But a fair emount was well developed. Those germinated well.