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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: SeaWalnut on April 16, 2019, 08:30:44 PM

Title: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 16, 2019, 08:30:44 PM
Here i present my dome greenhouse build that its made of wood and i used Buckminster Fuller ( the original inventor)method and plans.Also i got somme inspiration from ZipTieDomes on youtube wich its the best expert of domes i have discussed with.The dome its 4 meters high and 8 meters diameter,has almost 50 square meters of space at ground level and its mounted on concrete foundations.It will be covered in polycarbonate in exterior ( probably 4 mm thick) and will have another layer of plastic foil inside so that it will become a double wall wich will help a lot with temp isolation in winter( i live in zone 6).Will also have a heating system made with a rocket type burner with wood.(https://i.postimg.cc/w7B8PMJq/IMG-20180124-080307.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7B8PMJq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/grsbN8xt/IMG-20181031-123721.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/grsbN8xt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9rN5j2tG/IMG-20181031-123828.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rN5j2tG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/F1NQyDHJ/IMG-20181102-195740-285.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1NQyDHJ)

Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 16, 2019, 08:51:17 PM
The dome its a 4V frequency and all the joints are cut to certain double axis angles by hand.The coating its made with 2 layers of linnen oil ,then 2 layers of white paint and next im planing to wax it somehow,to repel moisture better.(https://i.postimg.cc/gwHgmqFf/IMG-20180822-WA0005.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwHgmqFf) (https://i.postimg.cc/Wqh8GBFv/IMG-20180813-WA0001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wqh8GBFv)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on April 16, 2019, 09:00:38 PM
Neat!   

Are you going to heat it?  I have a zone6 greenhouse also though mine is a traditional gable design.  You have a lot of vertical space so you could have hanging potted plants to make use.   
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 16, 2019, 09:07:53 PM
I will heat it with a rocket stove that i will build.Will have heating and thermal insulated walls wich  are just 2 walls and the air trapped between them its the insulator( air its best thermal insulator).I will grow exotic trees in it ,directly in the ground and in pots.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on April 17, 2019, 10:57:58 AM
Your post led me to reading for an hour or two about geodesic and other dome construction.   Most of the noted downsides seem like they wouldn't affect a greenhouse significantly (leaks, electric/plumbing/venting issues).  I hope it works out for you, post more pictures as it comes along.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 17, 2019, 08:09:46 PM
Im glad that it sparked your interest in geodesic domes and i will post more pictures along the way.The dome will even have 2 small beehives with bumblebees in it for pollination.If you have any questions about the costs or building techniques,feel free to ask.
 
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on April 17, 2019, 10:03:30 PM
One thing I recall from my reading is that covering the dome with flat sheets doesnít work well, but  a diamond/rhombus spanning two triangles and bent at the seam was effective.   My greenhouse has an insulated foundation which I believe helps a lot to retain soil heat.  The rocket stove design looks effective and it looks like you have plenty of wood to burn.  I am lucky enough to have piped natural gas which is very cheap, so I am running a gas heater.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 05, 2019, 11:11:15 PM
Buckminster Fullers reverse chimney effect for cooling.Sounds plausible and i will try somme experiments with it on my dome.http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/chilling-domes-physics/ (http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/chilling-domes-physics/)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Kevin Jones on May 06, 2019, 11:19:32 AM
Not nearly as elaborate as your... but it works ok!
I built this simple dome greenhouse from a star plate kit a few years ago.
Insulated the northern side and put in gravity auto-closing doors:


(https://i.postimg.cc/mcNsVdmK/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-53c2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcNsVdmK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygLzCD4P/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-53cd.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygLzCD4P)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PpXk7mcJ/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-53d1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpXk7mcJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/K34hGmmy/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-53fe.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K34hGmmy)

(https://i.postimg.cc/14zQcrwY/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-5404.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14zQcrwY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YjywXLx2/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-5408.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjywXLx2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BP91kdqj/Suriname-Cheery-Greenhouse.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BP91kdqj)

Kevin
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 06, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
Very nice folks!  Have been intriqued with those star plates forever.

Be nice to have a thread for us greenhouse growers.  I just took this shot of a 14' X 14' volunteer tomato plant in mine that's been producing since fall.  It sprawls on the floor.  For reference there is a 8' wide Reed avocado behind it.

(https://i.postimg.cc/cgcHHjnC/Mater-May6-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgcHHjnC)

If I can ever get off dead center and install a R/O system I'm probably going to go with this fog system.  Hang it and forget it.

https://www.jaybird-mfg.com/products/gt-500-series/gt-500-hanging-sump/ (https://www.jaybird-mfg.com/products/gt-500-series/gt-500-hanging-sump/)

SeaWalnut, if you could open that thing up for pollinators you won't need those bumblebees.  It's my understanding that the life of those mail order hives is short too.  I looked at them.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 06, 2019, 11:57:50 AM
Polycarbonate is the only way to go.  Highly recommend it be greenhouse grade.  I went with Dyna-Glass Palram called "Solarsoft".


(https://i.postimg.cc/TLxs0NHr/Greenhouse-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLxs0NHr)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: marzocca on May 06, 2019, 12:00:52 PM
Seawalnut,
what did you use as joints? can you insert photos of the details? thank you and greetings, Francesco.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 06, 2019, 04:57:18 PM
Thanks Kevin, i didnt used hubs and its a 4V frequency but wasnt too easy to build and i had challenges that led me to invent a tool for measuring the compond angles at the joints.I will put foil on interior like you have that reflective one but il use transparent and for the whole dome.
Mark,those mail order bees can live quite a long time,you only have to feed them a little pollen pattyes and sugar water  .I will catch my own queens from the wild and start the colony and if they make new queens ,il keep those in the fridge and release them in nature in the spring.Greenhouse polycarbonate with double walls its what i will use,the type that has a side treated against UV.As for the RO system( reverse osmosis water filter) the last i have build for my saltwater aquarium ,i made it with cheap chinese membrane and its verry good ,after 3 Years it measures 15 TDS with old DI resin ( i have RO-DI) and ive been using it non stop.If you want to build your own to have nice resealable filter housings i can help with advices.At somme point i even toght to start making them and sale for profit.
Francesco,joints on my dome are interlocked and they just sit on on top of otther but they also have somme screws ,2 for each end of a strut that are on the lenght of it.But what keeps my dome together its the interlocking joints and 7 screws on the length of each strut.Il post pics with the joints in a few days .
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 08, 2019, 07:11:55 AM
Thanks for the info.   I put together a quote at Brad's hoop house thread just now.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 11, 2019, 03:41:30 AM
After somme interesting discussions on Spaugh forum ,looking for ways to chill a greenhouse i allready decided on my dome chiling.I will make a transparent pad door onto wich a small ,really cheap and efficient pump will pump water on it.The door will be like a waterfall with holes like a sieve through wich air will pass assuring evaporative cooling.I also like the idea of having a waterfall door.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: tve on May 12, 2019, 12:58:09 AM
After somme interesting discussions on Spaugh forum ,looking for ways to chill a greenhouse i allready decided on my dome chiling.I will make a transparent pad door onto wich a small ,really cheap and efficient pump will pump water on it.The door will be like a waterfall with holes like a sieve through wich air will pass assuring evaporative cooling.I also like the idea of having a waterfall door.
That sounds cool, so each time you walk in or out you walk under the waterfall and get a shower?
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 12, 2019, 01:41:25 AM
After somme interesting discussions on Spaugh forum ,looking for ways to chill a greenhouse i allready decided on my dome chiling.I will make a transparent pad door onto wich a small ,really cheap and efficient pump will pump water on it.The door will be like a waterfall with holes like a sieve through wich air will pass assuring evaporative cooling.I also like the idea of having a waterfall door.
That sounds cool, so each time you walk in or out you walk under the waterfall and get a shower?
No,the waterfall will be in the door and will open just like a regular door.I immagine if shutted hard the water from the waterfall will get out.I think its a nice idea and i made plans allready for materials.The surface of the pads will be transparent and il have problems because plastic repels water unlike the cartboard thats normally used ,but i allready found a solution to that.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 14, 2019, 07:45:00 AM
The dome structure today.(https://i.postimg.cc/MGwW9GdK/20190514-135458.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zvwmbwYC/20190514-135301.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xj5tCpWs/20190514-134433.jpg)This is the tool that i invented to to measure the compound angles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/50TvYvS2/20190514-134546.jpg)On this triangular board i cut all the struts by hand( with a hand saw ;D).
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f2Lz3Fn/20190514-134859.jpg) This is the joint of a hexagon.On exterior they fit perfect but on the interior i had somme gaps wich i filled with injected fiberglass adhesive.All the joints and the triangles have to be arranged in one direction,clockwise or anticlockwise and the result is a pattern that looks like a swastica with 5 or 6 arms.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 14, 2019, 07:51:45 AM
On the base of the dome ive added a metalic strip that encircles the dome.It wasnt necessary but i reminded ive read somewhere about a dome that got a chain around the base in rennaisance time .(https://i.postimg.cc/sDDckPHt/20190514-135238.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Daintree on May 14, 2019, 09:22:38 AM
Your own giant Buckyball - Awesome!

I actually considered a commercially-built geodesic dome greenhouse when I first started planning, but my back yard is long and skinny, so it would not have been a good use of the space.

Can hardly wait to see pictures when you are done!!!!

Carolyn
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: tve on May 14, 2019, 12:14:29 PM
Very cool & impressive! Thanks for posting pics!
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: lebmung on May 14, 2019, 06:50:36 PM
A lot of work!
I wonder what is your plan to get rid of condensation in winter. Also if I were you I would dig everything 50 cm down and make an insulated concrete foundation. At 80 cm soil will not freeze.
If you plant your plants in ground you will have a lot of problems with root rot.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 15, 2019, 02:50:51 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/50TvYvS2/20190514-134546.jpg)On this triangular board i cut all the struts by hand( with a hand saw ;D).
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f2Lz3Fn/20190514-134859.jpg) This is the joint of a hexagon.On exterior they fit perfect but on the interior i had somme gaps wich i filled with injected fiberglass adhesive.All the joints and the triangles have to be arranged in one direction,clockwise or anticlockwise and the result is a pattern that looks like a swastica with 5 or 6 arms.

Nice job!  Cut by hand? 
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 15, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
It will have double walls with air inbetween and will be heated so i dont think il have condensation problems.
All the compond angles are cut by hand with a hand saw not with an electric saw just by human muscles power.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: lebmung on May 20, 2019, 01:01:13 PM
You will have a lot of condensation with all the heating you will have. It will drop cold water on plants and fungus will develop. It seems like you never had a greenhouse before.
If you put double panels on both sides it will be expensive, and the air between the panels will have an inverse effect, because of the large gap in between. Not to mention the light loss.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 02:14:14 PM
You will have a lot of condensation with all the heating you will have. It will drop cold water on plants and fungus will develop. It seems like you never had a greenhouse before.
If you put double panels on both sides it will be expensive, and the air between the panels will have an inverse effect, because of the large gap in between. Not to mention the light loss.
You need a phisics lesson  ;D. Condensation occurs on cold surfaces ,like on a beer bottle you have just take out from the fridge.The moisture from surrounding air sticks to the cold surface of the bottle.My greenhouse will not have condensation issues because it will be double walled with a thick air gap inside the walls.Air its the best thermal sealant so the inside walls of the greenhouse will not get cold and thats why no condensation will ocur.The only weak spots that might get cold are the structure of the dome but thats made.of wood wich has a low thermal transfer and will not get too cold like metal would and will also be sealed by a thin policarbonate layer.And the policarbonate its quite cheap,to cover the exterior it costs me ( only the policarbonate) just 350 dollars and the interior probably 250.To that cost i add the special tapes il use,one from plastic and one from aluminum,screws ,etc.For a 50 square meters greenhouse its not that expensive.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: lebmung on May 20, 2019, 02:56:14 PM
Well... You need a phisics lesson, not me. Google the air between two glass panels then we can talk. 5cm gap between panels is a bad idea.
You speak from theory I tell you from practice.
Anyway do as you wish you seem the kid of person who knows everything.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: NateTheGreat on May 20, 2019, 07:15:25 PM
Air its the best thermal sealant so the inside walls of the greenhouse will not get cold and thats why no condensation will ocur.

Air is a terrible insulator. Look at R-values of expensive double or tripple-wall glass, compared to wall materials. I have a double-wall window in my room, and it gets condensation if I have plants in my room (due to the added indoor humidity). Since the glazing will be of plastic rather than glass, you may have less condensation. When I've slept in tents outdoors though, the (plastic) tents do have condensation on the inside in the morning.

The wood sections will almost surely have a much higher R-value than the double-walled polycarbonate.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
Air is the best known thermal insulator and its scientifical prooved.A cold bottle of beer out of the fridge gets condensation on it but the whoole fridge wich is insulated by air between 2 walls ,doesnt gets condensation on the exterior surface because it doesnt gets cold. The bigger the air gap is,the better its insulated.My greenhouse with 5-7 cm thick air layer will be a few times more insulated than a glass window with 1,5 centimeters air gap .
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: NateTheGreat on May 20, 2019, 08:49:13 PM
Air is the best known thermal insulator and its scientifical prooved.

Then why do they use insulation instead of just air in walls? I'm not trying to get into an argument, it's a cool project, but these things you're saying just aren't true. The lack of condensation on the beer in the fridge is because it's the same temperature as the surrounding air. The polycarbonate will be some temperature between the outside air and the inside air (if it's -20 out and it's 30 in, the polycarbonate probably is somewhere around 0), so it will be colder than the inside air. Just like the beer bottle once it's out of the fridge. When the warmer air hits a colder surface, condensation.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 09:06:29 PM
Air is the best known thermal insulator and its scientifical prooved.

Then why do they use insulation instead of just air in walls? I'm not trying to get into an argument, it's a cool project, but these things you're saying just aren't true. The lack of condensation on the beer in the fridge is because it's the same temperature as the surrounding air. The polycarbonate will be some temperature between the outside air and the inside air (if it's -20 out and it's 30 in, the polycarbonate probably is somewhere around 0), so it will be colder than the inside air. Just like the beer bottle once it's out of the fridge. When the warmer air hits a colder surface, condensation.
The insulations are insulating because they contain air.A blanket keeps you warm because it contains air,stirofoam insulates because it contains air,,the foan from between the walls of a fridge insulates because it contains air .Insulation material its only a way to keep that air contained into a space.You need material to create a blanket but the air in the material keeps you warm not the material itself.Stirofoam and glasswool are used for constructions thermal insulations just because they provide suport for cement or otther material to be layed over air contained into a space.Somme also prevent the flow of currents so that the air remains stagnant.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: NateTheGreat on May 20, 2019, 09:29:10 PM
That's true, but air convects heat.

"Gases possess poor thermal conduction properties compared to liquids and solids, and thus makes a good insulation material if they can be trapped. In order to further augment the effectiveness of a gas (such as air) it may be disrupted into small cells which cannot effectively transfer heat by natural convection. Convection involves a larger bulk flow of gas driven by buoyancy and temperature differences, and it does not work well in small cells where there is little density difference to drive it, and the high surface-to-volume ratios of the small cells retards gas flow in them by means of viscous drag.

In order to accomplish small gas cell formation in man-made thermal insulation, glass and polymer materials can be used to trap air in a foam-like structure. This principle is used industrially in building and piping insulation such as (glass wool), cellulose, rock wool, polystyrene foam (styrofoam), urethane foam, vermiculite, perlite, and cork. Trapping air is also the principle in all highly insulating clothing materials such as wool, down feathers and fleece.

The air-trapping property is also the insulation principle employed by homeothermic animals to stay warm, for example down feathers, and insulating hair such as natural sheep's wool. In both cases the primary insulating material is air, and the polymer used for trapping the air is natural keratin protein. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_insulation#Applications
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 09:38:41 PM
That wouldnt happen on my greenhouse walls because the air will be trapped between the policarbonate with 2 type of sticky tape.So the air can not escape from between the walls.The double walls will be just like as if my greenhouse its covered in stirofoam or glass wool( actually it would be even better because simple air its less conductive than stirofoam or glasswool but to an insignificant level).
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Orkine on May 20, 2019, 09:49:16 PM
You are going to build this and you will share your experience.  So though the conversation has been good, perhaps the results of the real world experiment will resolve this.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: NateTheGreat on May 20, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't read your last reply as well as I should have. The thing is, if you have two sheets of polycarbonate, two different temperatures, with air between them, the air will convect heat. Natural convection. If you had something like down filling that gap, it would keep the air from flowing. There would be a steady gradient of warmer to cooler air. Once the down is removed, the warm and cool air can mix, and transfer heat through convection. The conduction through down is minimal.

This may be helpful https://www.commercialwindows.org/ufactor.php (https://www.commercialwindows.org/ufactor.php)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 20, 2019, 10:15:57 PM
@Orkine,ies i will build this and put it to the test and if it will be a failure i will post it like i did posted a week ago somme failed experiment with my homemade seedling pots that killed most of my pecan trees.Im bad with pot coultures but with condensation i have big experience as i have build a cold water aquarium thats like an open fridge chilled by a titanium condeser(titanium because its saltwater) through an air conditioned.And off course ,the aquarium has double walls of glass and its thermo insulated.
@Nate the great, the discussion finally led you to my words and because of that i will reward you with an advice on why your big glass wall gets condensation on it.Its because the glass has somme thermal transfer power and if you keep the window open while its cold outside,then the glass on the interior gets cold and it gets condensation.Or in case you have air condioner and inside the house its cold,the interior window gets cold and if you open the window,the exterior hot air that enters your house will condensate on your window.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 21, 2019, 08:28:21 AM
Ever thought of just going with 8 mm twin walled polycarb and be done with it?  Kicker is the loss of light transmission, L.T. with layer you apply.  https://www.palram.com/us/product/sunlite-diy-polycarbonate-multi-wall/ (https://www.palram.com/us/product/sunlite-diy-polycarbonate-multi-wall/)

I have never lost any plants or trees in root tip pruning systems like RootMaker.

I've used these treepots with great success mainly for young seedlings like oaks or pecan that have long tap roots.  On some I applied a copper hydroxide root pruning paint at the bottom to terminate the tap root and prevent root spin out. 
https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php) 
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 21, 2019, 02:59:04 PM
8 mm insulation its too little.I bought 4 mm double walled polycarbonate for exterior and for the interior il buy 3 mm sheets.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 22, 2019, 08:29:58 AM
8 mm insulation its too little.I bought 4 mm double walled polycarbonate for exterior and for the interior il buy 3 mm sheets.

Understand that with such "glazings" your L.T. is probably down to about 50%.  What are you planning to grow?
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 22, 2019, 02:58:52 PM
8 mm insulation its too little.I bought 4 mm double walled polycarbonate for exterior and for the interior il buy 3 mm sheets.

Understand that with such "glazings" your L.T. is probably down to about 50%.  What are you planning to grow?
I will measure light and i have tools to measure even the UV.Im planning to grow cherimoyas,Inga in the center,Uvaria grandiflora a few tomatoes and a few red peppers and an annona squamosa.Red guamuchil also and probably somme guava types.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 23, 2019, 07:20:33 AM
I will measure light and i have tools to measure even the UV.Im planning to grow cherimoyas,Inga in the center,Uvaria grandiflora a few tomatoes and a few red peppers and an annona squamosa.Red guamuchil also and probably somme guava types.

Good luck with that, sounds good.  Should be no UV when you get thru.  I use a meter that measures up to 10K foot candles.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 23, 2019, 02:50:53 PM
I will measure light and i have tools to measure even the UV.Im planning to grow cherimoyas,Inga in the center,Uvaria grandiflora a few tomatoes and a few red peppers and an annona squamosa.Red guamuchil also and probably somme guava types.

Good luck with that, sounds good.  Should be no UV when you get thru.  I use a meter that measures up to 10K foot candles.
I will use a lux meter and the UV meter.In theory and ideally there should be no UV but i think somme will pass through and i have a really sensitive UV meter wich i used to measure UV from light sources,bulbs,neon tubes ,etc.My meter measures only the harmfull UVB , UVC and ignores the colored light UVA wich its safe for plastics and there are even plastic LEDs that emit UVA. A PAR meter its a better tool for measuring light for plants but its expensive and i dont have one.I had a PAR meter build in progess with a camera and a difraction grating wich would have measured all the colors in the spectrum of the light source not just the blue and red like the PAR meter.I see no reason to use such a advanced tool for the greenhouse thogh.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: lebmung on May 23, 2019, 06:13:12 PM
Plants will be leggy, internode length high. Tested. Especially tropical guava will not fruit well under 2 polycarbonate sheets.
You will get condensation and a lot of it. I tested before. After you fail with condensation, I might give you a good solution. Get some experience first.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on May 23, 2019, 09:52:04 PM
My experience with polycarbonate, wood, and tape/sealants is that water will find a way and you will have leaks you cannot avoid.  Even manufactured double-pane vacuum-sealed windows leak sometimes. 
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 23, 2019, 10:39:48 PM
For insylation,each polycarbonate triangle will be sealead on the edges with heavy duty,UV resistant tape thats special for greenhouses.After that the plastic triangles will be fized with screws on the wood frame(manny screws). And over the joints between the plastic sheets il add again that special tape for greenhouses and over that plastic tape il add another adhesive tape,this time aluminum sticky tape,made of real metal not just colored silver.10 years or so il not be expecting problems.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 24, 2019, 10:24:28 AM
My experience with polycarbonate, wood, and tape/sealants is that water will find a way and you will have leaks you cannot avoid.  Even manufactured double-pane vacuum-sealed windows leak sometimes.

Yep.  Only way to do this is double walled polycarbonate resulting in less light and plants that tend to be leggy and may not fruit well.

Otherwise he needs to go with single and cough up the bucks to heat it.  I would assume that gas heating would be the cheapest with controllers.     
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on May 24, 2019, 04:29:56 PM
My experience with polycarbonate, wood, and tape/sealants is that water will find a way and you will have leaks you cannot avoid.  Even manufactured double-pane vacuum-sealed windows leak sometimes.

Yep.  Only way to do this is double walled polycarbonate resulting in less light and plants that tend to be leggy and may not fruit well.

Otherwise he needs to go with single and cough up the bucks to heat it.  I would assume that gas heating would be the cheapest with controllers.   
I have the dome on top of a hill in full sun all day long .And probably right under my greenhouse you could find oil and natural gas ,because i live in an area thats surrounded by oil rigs and extraction heads.Even if the gas is cheap and i could buy a nice and cheap ,second hand heating boiler wich i can install myself for free,i will have the heating going on wood branches because thats not cheap,its free fuel for me.I will spend a bit more monney to build the rocket stove on wood than i would have spend on a nice  second hand ,gas heating central ,but il build it because i want to invent something usefull and interesting even if it makes me to look like the antichrist.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 14, 2019, 03:23:05 AM
For sealing the double polycarbonate pannels i decided that the aluminum sticky tape its the best.Sticks well,and its UV resistant,water resistant .Each pannel of polycarbonate ( double walls polycarbonate) will be sealed with 2 layers of aluminum tape on the edges and in between pannels on the dome ,there will be also 2 layers if aluminum tape.
Initially i wanted to use one layer of plastic tape and last layer of aluminum tape for both,the pannels and inbetween the pannels,but now il use only aluminum tape because i found to buy it for cheap (4 dollars per 50 meters x 5 cm).(https://i.postimg.cc/hjYBS33q/20190801-223153.jpg)

 You get weak light from double polycarbonate in case water gets inside it and then algae start to grow between the layers.When sealed well,water doesnt gets in and algae doesnt grow = the polycarbonate stays clear.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Forester on August 14, 2019, 03:41:24 AM
Dude, I canít imagine how much effort and money you have already spent on this! Once I also thought about building a geodesic dome, but after making calculations I realized that it was very expensive for me. I hope you succeed! Good luck
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 14, 2019, 04:41:11 AM
Dude, I canít imagine how much effort and money you have already spent on this! Once I also thought about building a geodesic dome, but after making calculations I realized that it was very expensive for me. I hope you succeed! Good luck
Its actually quite cheap since ive used raw wood boards(cheapest wood) that i cut myself on length to make the struts.
The wood costed @ 400-500 dollars because i had a lot of losses( bad wood with knots,somme curled after they dryed,etc).
Cement for the foundations ,just a few bags.The foundations dont have metal reinforcements in them but i mixed the cement to be on the harder side with slightly more cement than normal.@ 30 dollars
The exterior policarbonate ,4 mm thick and double walled costs @ 400 dollars and the interior polycarbonate another 300 dollars or so.
On screws and anchors i spend probably 200 dollars or slightly more and on aluminum tape another 200 probably.
Total cost @ 1500 dollars for 50 square meters and 4 meters tall .But i didnt calculated the labour.
If you like geodesic domes and want to have one thats even cheaper than mein,then ZipTieDomes has somme kits lately made with pvc plastic pipes and a special connector on them where you can attach greenhouse foil on exterior and on interior and that seals it well from cold( better cold sealed than my dome actually).https://youtu.be/CMsRCiYZl0A
My dome is hubless wich is a lot harder to build than one with hubs ( visible joints).But domes with hubs and with plastic foil are just as beautifull as mein ,just make it bigger to look good and 3v or 4v frequency.
Warning: do not install the dome right next to a busy road because it will cause accidents from drivers looking at the dome instead of the road ;D.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 20, 2019, 08:33:00 AM
The anchors of the dome.Each had to be custom made from 1,5 mm thick metal plate wich i cut it in shape with a chisel and a hacksaw.Most of the work done with the chisel ,like the antichrist( i hope my neighbours forgive me  ;D).

(https://i.postimg.cc/vZtcyRGk/20190820-130929.jpg)

And now i do the final step before starting to cover it.
I mixed 50/50 paraffine with boiled linseed oil and i spread it with somme rags over the painted wood structure.
The idea is that the linseed oil dryes and then the paraffine hardens ,providing a water repellent surface and protection against mold.
The structure has 2 coats of boiled linseed oil,2 coats of paint and a thick coat of wax-linseed oil mix.Hope it lasts.

(https://i.postimg.cc/4yGpP6Ph/20190820-131006.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 22, 2019, 01:27:10 AM
The adjustable tool i made for measuring the polycarbonate triangles( works on exterior only).

(https://i.postimg.cc/jjp9g64s/20190822-075504.jpg)

Ive started installing the exterior polycarbonate triangles.Dilatation gap @ 3 mm ,screws and aluminum tape sealing the edge of every triangle.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Q3GxxNx/20190822-075552.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xdZNN5V3/20190822-075539.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Oolie on August 22, 2019, 12:00:32 PM
On the topic of unsolicited advice, if you could seal the space between layers and pull a vacuum on it, you can limit the convection of heat outwards. This should solve the condensation issue.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 22, 2019, 06:43:50 PM
On the topic of unsolicited advice, if you could seal the space between layers and pull a vacuum on it, you can limit the convection of heat outwards. This should solve the condensation issue.
I know what your thinking.To seal with tape each triangle between the wood structure and the pannels.
 That would be too expensive and its not possible ,because the wood has wax on it and the tape does not adhere to the wax.
But there wont be problem with convection altough it will not be a vacuumed space.Glasswool its not vacuumed and still not much convexion.Il have less convexion between my pannels than glasswool between plaster boards or otther porous building material.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on August 30, 2019, 02:38:14 AM
Fire test for the polycarbonate.Doesnt fuels the fire.Il have to say im impressed and i toght this will start burning like a candle.(https://i.postimg.cc/GpZgp4LY/20190830-090002.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on October 16, 2019, 07:36:44 AM
The dome today.Almost finished the exterior polycarbonate covering ( except 5 windows on the top).
Next il have to build the stove ,add the 5 temporary windows on top and then add another layer of polycarbonate,3 mm thick indoor.
The door is also temporary covered just for this winter.
The colored stirofoam on the foundation has to be covered in somme cement adhesive and fiberglass.

(https://i.postimg.cc/mkC9Z5D7/IMG-20191016-WA0001.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on October 16, 2019, 10:13:24 AM
It looks great!

Has it rained yet?  My experience is that where the screws puncture the plastic some small amount of water gets in, and it may collect at the low points of each triangle.  You may need to allow drainage at the low edges.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: poofystuff on October 16, 2019, 11:28:57 AM
It looks great!

Has it rained yet?  My experience is that where the screws puncture the plastic some small amount of water gets in, and it may collect at the low points of each triangle.  You may need to allow drainage at the low edges.

Looks like the foil backed tape covers the screws, so he should be fine there.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on October 16, 2019, 01:35:11 PM
It rained a lot and the dome is covered in morning dew every day on the exterior only.
And because the tape covers the screws well i didnt got any water in any single channel of the triangles except triangles on the back side wich i let uncovered for a few weeks because i didnt had tape and 2 triangles on the front wich i think they had that water in them allready.
The water got inside just in the screw pierced channel and only a few  chanels .
On the front triangles that have a little water its not in the screws lines thats why i think it was there before and has nothing to do with the screws.
I used a lot of tape but compared to any polycarbonate even mounted profesionally like in bus stations and shops,mein still  looks better and is better sealed.
How long will it stay that well sealed? Well see  ;D.
As for the few lines that got water inside,im thinking to drain them using a seringe and then il cover the seringe needle hole with a little tape.
What looks weird is the foil left on the inside of the polycarbonate.Il take it out when il install the second layer of polycarbonate indoor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8k3Mw4hR/20191016-201733.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8CpxwMWS/20191016-201903.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Mark in Texas on October 21, 2019, 08:46:24 AM
Well done!  Congrats!
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 22, 2019, 08:59:15 AM
Condensation happens only on the single wall pannels.
The double wall pannels have zero condensation due to the thermal insulation.
Soon im gonna cover all the dome in double layer wall but this is the proof that double walls stop condensation and keep the heat inside.(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx21rS36/20191122-141425.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 22, 2019, 12:40:52 PM
Beautiful! Functional!
And a work of art!

Kevin
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on January 11, 2020, 06:14:55 AM
Beautiful! Functional!
And a work of art!

Kevin
Thank you Kevin! You compliment weights a lot to me because you had a geodesic dome too.

New pics with almost finished double wall( for thermal insulation and anticondens).
Looks great with the aluminum tape indoor,its superb insulated and no condens raining from the ceiling.
 (https://i.postimg.cc/cLMLjmvN/IMG-20200111-WA0004.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zGgJW1m7/IMG-20200109-WA0002.jpg)
Here you can see that at the joints the aluminum is wet on the interior and appears darker .That happens because the joints form a thermal bridge.
They get colder ,somme heat its lost through there and somme little condens is formed but nothing to worry about and certainly it doesnt ,,rain,, from the joints.
I cant be more happyer about the double wall.It was expensive to do it but ive opted for quality vs quantity.
Keeps the heat in and stops condensation.

(https://i.postimg.cc/1tjFXQ1S/IMG-20200109-WA0004.jpg)
The heating device: its too small and over engineered.Il have to build another one simpler with same high quality materials ( stainless steel exhaust that heats through the floor ,a bigger rocket stove insulated outdoor and the insulation underneath the exhaust through the floor that people use stirofoam,il use refractory grade insulator-ytong,so that in case a fire happens the stirofoam wont melt or burn).

(https://i.postimg.cc/sXHVRfdY/IMG-20200111-WA0001.jpg)Somme of my plants.The browned one its Ugni and looks bad becauae ive kept it outdoor in the pot and it got too cold and wet inside the pot for it to thrive.Its not dead and allready started to recover.
The tomato in the bucket i found it at garbage( including the bucket) and ,,rescued,, her  :)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on February 07, 2020, 03:58:39 PM
We just had 2 days with 90 miles an hour winds ( 145 kmh) storm.
Manny trees fell and manny greenhouses were completely destroyed.
Mein survived well thanks to the dome shape .Only the door had to be closed better because the wind managed to open it.
To be honest,i toght it would fly  but it withstand the wind quite well thanks to the dome shape.
The wind was soo strong it even took ceramic shingles off from my home roof.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Kevin Jones on February 07, 2020, 06:11:32 PM
I read somewhere that due to it's unique aerodynamic shape... high winds actually force the dome down... reducing the chances of it blowing away... unlike typical rectangular structures.

Kevin

Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on February 07, 2020, 08:13:58 PM
I read somewhere that due to it's unique aerodynamic shape... high winds actually force the dome down... reducing the chances of it blowing away... unlike typical rectangular structures.

Kevin
Yea,thats true,the stronger the wind the stronger the dome becomes.
I was worryed about the polycarbonate on the dome ,that will fail but didnt.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 12, 2020, 05:01:57 PM
Because my forum thread ,,Pollen vs viruses,, vanished ,i decided to take a break from the forum.
Summer is close and il have to make the 5 windows on the top of the dome to work( open and and close simultaneously).
I will attempt to use black locust wood in the making of somme parts of the window frames.
It will be hard to cut with the chainsaw into boards and it will be a tough test for the fake Stihl chainsaw.
Because ive installed the second layer of polycarbonate in the winter,water condensed on the exterior walls and it got trapped in between the 2 polycarbonate layers.
I will take down the interior polycarbonate to let it dry,then i will install it back.
After that il make the waterfall stile door wich will be the evaporating cooling sistem of the dome in summer.

Later,until the winter comes ,i will make a thick chimney pipe that will pass through the floor and a rocket stove fed automatically on wood chips that will be mounted outdoor ( the stove will make its own electric energy to drive the small
gear motor that will put wood chips on the fire).

And by the next spring i will finally catch a bumblebee queen and i wil house her in a small special hive for bumblebees inside the dome.It will make a small colony of @ 15-20 bumblebees that will be able to sustain themselves inside the dome( i will feed them also) and they will be permanent residents that will pollinate my plants.
Comercial greenhouses use bumblees for a month or so and then they die,but mein will be a permanent colony no matter they will have flowers to polinate or not.I will feed them a little pollen from my honney bees in times of dearth.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on April 12, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
How did it fare in terms of leaks & water inside panels? 
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 12, 2020, 06:10:42 PM
How did it fare in terms of leaks & water inside panels?
It is awesome.Air tight and no leaks in between the policarbonate stripes.
The only few water infiltrations in between the pannels are the ones from last year( verry few).No otthers developed.

And contrary,the window pannels wich are made from scrap left after cutting the original pannels are full of water on the edges.
But those i didnt sealed because they were just temporary installed for the last winrer only ( until i make the windows).
I cant immagine using double walled polycarbonate without sealing it with aluminum tape.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: brian on April 12, 2020, 06:41:19 PM
That's really impressive, good work with the construction
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 25, 2020, 04:20:36 AM
I made a short video with the dome.Migratory storks returned from Africa and they were atracted by my greenhouse dome.Probably they think its a nest :D.
https://youtu.be/3mkDSeooxD0
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Kevin Jones on April 25, 2020, 10:32:34 AM
Around here we call circling birds "Buzzards" and I would be looking for a dead something or other.
Dome looks really great... give us an actual detailed tour video when you have some time.
Thanks.

Kevin Jones

Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 25, 2020, 06:55:14 PM
Around here we call circling birds "Buzzards" and I would be looking for a dead something or other.
Dome looks really great... give us an actual detailed tour video when you have some time.
Thanks.

Kevin Jones

These are storks not vultures and they dont eat dead animals.
They like to nest on houses and legend has it that if you destroy their nest,they will bring red coals into their beak and set your house on fire.
Its just a legend but a nice one.
They congregate like this and fly in circles only in the first day they arrive from Africa .
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpT6Fw8m/4dcb462bba240c6206b317b09536da26.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wTHxpJD2/calin-104.jpg)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 25, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Around here we call circling birds "Buzzards" and I would be looking for a dead something or other.
Dome looks really great... give us an actual detailed tour video when you have some time.
Thanks.

Kevin Jones

These are storks not vultures and they dont eat dead animals.
They like to nest on houses and legend has it that if you destroy their nest,they will bring red coals into their beak and set your house on fire.
Its just a legend but a nice one.
They congregate like this and fly in circles only in the first day they arrive from Africa .
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpT6Fw8m/4dcb462bba240c6206b317b09536da26.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wTHxpJD2/calin-104.jpg)

Beuatiful birds and beautiful dome you built Walnut.
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: SeaWalnut on April 25, 2020, 08:30:48 PM
Thx Jabba.I googled to see if you have these birds in North America and you dont have them but you do have that saying that new born kids are brought by the stork.
This is the original bird from that saying.
Migrates between Europe and South Africa.
(https://i.postimg.cc/02qK8wcQ/800px-White-Stork-Map-svg.png)
Title: Re: Geodesic dome greenhouse build
Post by: Jabba The Hutt on April 25, 2020, 11:43:51 PM
Thx Jabba.I googled to see if you have these birds in North America and you dont have them but you do have that saying that new born kids are brought by the stork.
This is the original bird from that saying.
Migrates between Europe and South Africa.
(https://i.postimg.cc/02qK8wcQ/800px-White-Stork-Map-svg.png)

Yeah, unfortunately no storks, except for every once in a while you can catch a glimpse of one dropping a newborn off down a chimney :P