Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Citrus => Cold Hardy Citrus => Topic started by: will2358 on July 02, 2019, 02:52:46 PM

Title: Grafting
Post by: will2358 on July 02, 2019, 02:52:46 PM
I wanted to try my hand at grafting. Which grafting technique do you have the most success with? I have been looking at the videos by fruitmentor on Youtube but I would like imput from this form on your techniques.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: frukt on July 02, 2019, 04:47:25 PM
Im also starting with grafting. Find it really cool but now I really need to graft a lot after the fire we had here. I had great success with barkgrafting and cleft grafting on peaches, 80 % so most trees have several grafts taking. I tried with orange on lemon. No success but maybe it was to early. Now I tried again with whip and tounge i think its called. Tried with a tar to cover and with tape. The electric tape works great in spring with peaches and so but in the summerheat I think the tape dries and rolls up a bit. Tried with chip bud now. Appearently the only graft you can do all year round. Fixed it to the roots with organic thread made of straw, then cover that with plastic film and finally cover that with aluminium folie. Made it some days ago so lets see, oxala :)

But I think i will stick to this way of covering the graft. If i get my hands on parafilm then i whould change that for the plastic film but I think its mostly a comfort working with. Have a friend that uses any plastic and then cover everything with clay soil. Works great!

But I whould love to read more and look forward to many good answers. How to succed with harder grafts as macadamia and mulberry??
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Laaz on July 02, 2019, 06:52:41 PM
Inverted t-budding is my go to, but the bark must be slipping. If not then cleft or chip budding.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Florian on July 03, 2019, 10:31:55 AM
I am very bad at grafting but often succeed with cleft grafts.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on July 03, 2019, 12:52:32 PM
For a novice I recommend cleft grafting. Bark does not have to be slipping and you control temp. Make sure cambium is lined up on at least one side, good tight wrap, cover with plastic bag, place in shade, keep watered. Novice recipe for success.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Zitrusgaertner on July 03, 2019, 04:29:29 PM
use parafolm grafting tape. Since I have found this I am nearly 100% successful.
Title: deleted
Post by: lavender87 on July 03, 2019, 09:13:39 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: will2358 on July 10, 2019, 05:48:28 PM
Is it true that your scion must be dormant and ready to brake dormancy to do veneer grafting. It looks like the easiest grafting method, but If the dormancy thing is true I will need to wait til spring to try it. I did not see any videos with veneer grafting citrus. Is it not a good method for citrus? Can you leave the original tree foliage on a veneer graft.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on July 10, 2019, 07:24:01 PM
I have a smaller percentage of "takes" with veneer grafts. Better to use chip or cleft if no slipping bark. You need to do tbudding if bark is slipping. I like to graft with dormsnt materials.....get parafilm.....easy to use, fast and foolproof with just a minimum of skill.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: lavender87 on July 10, 2019, 10:55:52 PM
".....
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: will2358 on July 12, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
I received my graphing tool yesterday. Any comments on the tool is welcomed. I have never used anything like this before.

(https://i.postimg.cc/K3RVC3pg/grafting-tool.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K3RVC3pg)
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on July 12, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
Probably will work for stone fruits and others.....citrus requires closer cambium matches....this would take the fun and skill out of citrus grafting for me. It would make a good trot line sinker.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Vlad on July 12, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
I have one but rarely use it because I found it difficult to align the knife so that it cuts in the middle of the branch. I do mostly cleft grafts now.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: lebmung on July 12, 2019, 02:08:00 PM
I received my graphing tool yesterday. Any comments on the tool is welcomed. I have never used anything like this before.

(https://i.postimg.cc/K3RVC3pg/grafting-tool.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K3RVC3pg)

I tried that Chinese tool, a total waste of money. A victorinox knife is enough.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Millet on July 12, 2019, 04:43:14 PM
I have never used the instrument shown.  I only use a simple grafting knife.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on July 12, 2019, 05:04:16 PM
That was rude of me. I apoligize. Let me restate: No grafting tool can do what I do with a razor edged grafting knife and a roll of parafilm.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: lavender87 on July 12, 2019, 06:27:18 PM
......
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: kumin on August 02, 2019, 07:25:08 AM
I have success with a bark flap graft when the bark is slipping. These are done under active growing conditions and heals quite rapidly.
The process combines elements of budding and grafting. It's success is likely due to extensive cambium contact on both surfaces of the small diameter scion. I find Citrus as easy to graft as the pome fruits, certainly easier than persimmon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cr3KZktX/Graft-C-July-31-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cr3KZktX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jCw2Q3ct/Graft-B-July-31-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCw2Q3ct)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zLGXLx3m/Graft-A-July-31-2019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLGXLx3m)
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: brian on August 02, 2019, 09:32:32 PM
Ive tried repeatedly doing t-bud grafts but the bud always dies.  I tend to drop them and they get dirty, and I have a hard time wrapping the parafilm when other branches are close.  This is supposed to be the best technique, but it clearly takes a bit of skill.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: kumin on August 02, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
Brian, it helps to clear a 4-5" section of stem free of thorns, leaves, lateral branches, etc. Also, leaving a section of the leaf petiole attached to the bud can be used as a handle. This handle can remain on the bud and will indicate the health of the bud union. Green or yellow are good indications, black and brown often indicate failure.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Laaz on August 03, 2019, 08:30:53 AM
Brian, I use nail clippers to remove thorns & small branches on the rootstock. When I cut the bud, I put it in my mouth the keep it moist. Now cut the inverted T in the rootstock, take the blade & stick it in the lower part of the bud & slide it up into the cut you made. Wrap from the bottom up & leave it wrapped for 3-4 weeks. After 3-4 week, slice the parafilm on the back side of where the bud is & remove it. If it's still green you succeeded...  Now cut the rootstock a inch or two above the bud (Don not cut it flush with the top of the bud as sometimes you will get a little dieback at the top of the budstick where you cut it). Once your bud has grown out & has hardened off then you can cut it flush.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Laaz on August 03, 2019, 08:33:12 AM
I'll post a new tutorial soon on Citrusgrowers.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: brian on August 03, 2019, 09:43:37 AM
Thanks guys.  I hadnt tried an inverted t-bud yet, what is the advantage there vs regular?

Leaving a leaf “handle” is a good idea too
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on August 03, 2019, 10:27:01 AM
I opt for inverted t bud at times. It depends on how clean your rootstock is, and how big it is. I like to wrap from the botton up and inverted is my preference....push the bud up, wrap and you are done. I use both. Depends on how much Jack Daniels Single Barrel is missing from the decanter.........
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: will2358 on August 03, 2019, 11:54:55 AM
Depends on how much Jack Daniels Single Barrel is missing from the decanter.........
;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on August 03, 2019, 12:13:56 PM
Good to see you here Cindi
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: will2358 on August 16, 2019, 08:24:25 PM
If you graft a young citrus to a mature root stock will it get to blooming stage quicker?
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Millet on August 16, 2019, 08:33:27 PM
If you graft an immature citrus twig onto a mature root stock, the young citrus will not produce fruit until it reaches it predetermined node count required for maturity.  This could be either a shorter time, or a longer time depending on what node count number the grafted twig had reached when it was cut from the mother tree.  Citrus when removed from a tree, and then grafted onto a rootstock "remembers" what node count it had achieved before it was removed, and starts growing from that point.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: lavender87 on August 17, 2019, 08:22:27 AM
If you graft an immature citrus twig onto a mature root stock, the young citrus will not produce fruit until it reaches it predetermined node count required for maturity.  This could be either a shorter time, or a longer time depending on what node count number the grafted twig had reached when it was cut from the mother tree.  Citrus when removed from a tree, and then grafted onto a rootstock "remembers" what node count it had achieved before it was removed, and starts growing from that point.

  I only agree to some points. As I observed, some new young branches, in a matured tree, started to flower right away in the spring. I assume if I cut a 2 months old branches from a matures tree and grafted to another matured rootstock, then it might fruit right away in the same year or next year. I have not tried on citrus but in jujube I did. I grafted young 6 months old jujube branches onto a 7 years old rootstock in early spring, and it started to flower and fruit right a away after 2 months.

  I also grafted other jujube branches onto small jujube rootsuckers, and it did not flower at all until several years later. I guess your opinion might make some sense in citrus, but let see. I need more time to do experiment on citrus.

  In my experience, rootstock vigor and age played a vital role (at least 70%) in maturing speed of the grafted scionwood. The matured and vigours rootstock did boost the rate of maturation of the grafted scionwood and on the other hand, the immatured and less vigorous rootstock will for sure delay the maturing speed of the scionwood. I also have done grafting a matured scionwood jujube on a small young rootstock and it delayed on flowering and fruiting.

  Don't trust 100% any document online unless we verify that ourself. Many research publication has been published and then years later contradicting that by a new publication.
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Bomand on August 17, 2019, 10:00:54 AM
With citrus grafting the results of graftin mature wood to hasten bloom/bearing time is a tried and true practice. Each individual combination will have slight differences in time and action.....but will follow the general rules....
Title: Re: Grafting
Post by: Millet on August 17, 2019, 01:21:21 PM
Lavender87, in your above post you are grafting a scion cut from a mature tree onto a rootstock.  Yes, in that case the graft will produce fruit in a short period of time.  However if you graft a immature scion taken from a young immature tree, the grafted scion can take a long time until the scion grown and finally reaches its mature node count. You write that you can agree to some points of my original post.  After reading both of our posts I fail to see any differences,