Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Citrus => Citrus General Discussion => Topic started by: jbclem on September 30, 2019, 07:32:55 AM

Title: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: jbclem on September 30, 2019, 07:32:55 AM
I was reading an article on an Australian fruit site where they were discussing dealing with a citrus gall wasp problem they have over there.  One of the treatments they tried was spraying Surround on some of 10 young trees in an experiment.  And they  noticed that none of the trees sprayed with Surround has any sign of CLM, although other adjacent trees had plenty of it. 

I'm going to try this if I can find a source of Surround in small quantity, a pound or less.  Has anyone tried this, and does anyone know where to buy Surround in small size bags?
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: Pokeweed on September 30, 2019, 08:50:07 AM
Go to an arts and crafts store. I think it is an additive in clay pottery, but they should have it.
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: zephian on October 01, 2019, 04:51:31 PM
Several avocado growers here use it and have more than they could ever use. I'd recommend posting something in tropical fruit buy/sell/trade
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: jtnguyen333 on October 02, 2019, 01:45:32 PM
https://www.amazon.com/KAOLIN-Cosmetic-NATURAL-POWDER-Treatments/dp/B01N4KGV1C/ref=pd_ybh_a_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=C6G9PZAJRX5QWAY999ZZ (https://www.amazon.com/KAOLIN-Cosmetic-NATURAL-POWDER-Treatments/dp/B01N4KGV1C/ref=pd_ybh_a_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=C6G9PZAJRX5QWAY999ZZ)


One of the ideas for usage is: HOUSEHOLD Use in the garden to prevent pests from eating the leaves of vegetable plants
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: Yorgos on October 02, 2019, 04:00:32 PM
Surround worked great on peaches to deter squirrels predation but the fuzz didn't allow it to wash off very well, so it kinda ruined the fruit. It did reduce squirrel damage quite a bit.  I was spraying for the plum curculio beetle so the squirrel thing was a bonus. It just didn't work for peaches.  For plums or apples might be a different story.
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: spaugh on October 03, 2019, 10:30:09 PM
I can send you some but shipping will screw up the per pound cost of it.  It takes quite a bit of it per gallon also.  I use 6 cups per gallon. 

As far as CLM, yeah it looks bad but really doesn't cause much issue for the trees.  You could just ignore it.  Also cut back on nitrogen especially during warm months to lessen leaf flush.  If your trees are mature you don't want to keep feeding them tons of nitrogen anyway.  It just makes for more trimming. 

Could you post a photo of the trees you want to spray with surround?
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: Pokeweed on October 04, 2019, 07:42:40 AM
Surround is just kaolin clay. Craft stores and pharmacies usually have it. D
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: jbclem on October 10, 2019, 08:04:41 AM
Brad, thanks for the offer...you're right, the shipping is the killer.  The Calcined Kaolin clay is cheap, there are online places selling it for 2.50/lb but shipping for a pound is high.  I've been calling around trying to find a crafts store or an art supply store that carries it locally, but haven't found anyone yet.  I've discovered that Glomax (Glo Max) is a brand name for calcined kaolin clay so I'll start looking for that also.

I have about 20 mostly young dwarf citrus in containers, and some of them are heavily infested this year and some not at all.  I go out at night and  find the mines/instars and rub them out, but with small leaves it takes a very light touch to unroll the tiny leaf and rub out the mines.  Most of the small leaves stay soft and flexible, but with some varieties(ie a Moro blood orange)  the leaves get stiff and crumbly and break when I try to unroll them. 

And even if the trees can survive the infestation(s), they can look so ugly and I really like a healthy looking citrus tree. 

I didn't know it took that much (6 cups/gallon) Surround to make a batch.  But since I'm only spraying the new very young leaves, I'm not going to use very much of this clay mix, especially since this is an experiment and I don't know if it will even work.

I'll keep looking for art and scupture supply stores.  Los Angeles is a big city, there has to be a source somewhere.
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: Millet on October 20, 2019, 09:03:33 PM
Here is the University of Florida's evaluation on Calcined clay such as Surround.
http://citrusindustry.net/2019/10/02/a-growth-enhancing-pest-management-option/ (http://citrusindustry.net/2019/10/02/a-growth-enhancing-pest-management-option/)
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: brian on October 21, 2019, 10:46:53 AM
20-40% growth improvement ignoring infection rates is pretty impressive.  It sounds like a bit of "shade" is a huge help
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: Millet on October 21, 2019, 03:35:47 PM
brian, I did not read it as shade. It is actually extra light reflected off the clay onto all the interior leaves.
Title: Re: Calcined kaolin clay and Citrus Leaf Miner?
Post by: hardyvermont on October 22, 2019, 11:26:00 AM
Look up Helena Chemical.  They seem to have retail stores all over the country. 

https://helenaagri.com/locations/?zip=90027&city=los+Angeles&state=CA

https://helenaagri.com/