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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Kevin Jones on November 09, 2019, 10:51:54 AM

Title: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 09, 2019, 10:51:54 AM
Cooler weather is here and I need to be thinking about keeping my plants alive for the winter.
I'm building a new greenhouse in my backyard (to add to my plant menagerie... this make 3 GHs so far!) and was hoping to get some suggestions for an electric heater.
Here are the basic facts:
Location: Tuscaloosa in West central Alabama...Zone 7B - 8a... we get some temps in the teens every now and then.
The greenhouse is 240 sq ft.
I am not trying to create a tropical climate all winter... just keep temps above freezing on those really cold days/nights.
Needs to be electric.
For now... Service is provided with extension cords from garage/house back porch.
In the past I have used a couple of milk-house style heaters in my other GHs to keep the temps above freezing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZgzb0kQ/Heater.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZgzb0kQ)
They work OK.

This is basically an inner-city neighborhood... so there are a few zoning restrictions I have to obey.
Primarily height, square footage and property-line setbacks.
But the city has been pretty helpful.

It's not a huge GH... 20ft X 12. Still under construction as time allows
Shed style pitched roof - 12 ft on high north side - 8 ft on low south side.
PT lumber - Screws - Simpson Strong Ties.

Here's a few construction pix:
 
Pre fab wall units:
(https://i.postimg.cc/689j7C9J/26-EC61-A8-C349-4-E2-C-AC1-E-20-E4-FE80-F50-C-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/689j7C9J)

Now with roof rafters and end-walls:
(https://i.postimg.cc/JswYRSFn/59-F6-B885-93-BA-4-D05-AB1-E-B6-B689725236-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JswYRSFn)

Today I start working on the doors.

Thanks for any input.

Kevin





Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on November 09, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
We don't have your cold temps, but have you considered heat pads.  Mine keeps the soil (pots) warm and therefore the greenhouse.  Thermostat turns on at 40 degrees.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 09, 2019, 01:21:15 PM
Theoretically I like the idea...
I have a small heating pad I use for bottom heat when I am germinating a small batch of seed.
It's about 1 ft by 2 ft.
If we are talking about the same thing... it might be cost-prohibitive for my budget to heat my whole greenhouse with it.

Thanks. 
Kevin

Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 09, 2019, 04:17:01 PM
If you use electricity to heat then dont use electric heaters but instead use a heat pump ( an air conditioned used to heat).
Electric heaters are rated to 95 % efficiency maximum but the air conditioner has up to 400% percent efficiency.
That means you get 4 kw of heat with one kw of electric power consumed by the AC.
This efficiency drops if outside its too cold and at minus 15C  ,the efficiency of the AC is same as that of the resistance heaters.
You will need to heat the greenhouse mostly at night.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 09, 2019, 04:37:53 PM
Here is a link with that 400% efficiency .https://www.heatpumpkeymark.com/about/why-heat-pumps/ (https://www.heatpumpkeymark.com/about/why-heat-pumps/)
So with a heat pump( an air conditioner unit used on heating) you will get up to 4 times more heat for the same monney compared to any electric resistance or induction ,heating device.
I will use a rocket stove on wood to heat my greenhouse but if i were to go electric ,then i would have installed an old air conditioner unit and use it for heating.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: brian on November 09, 2019, 07:14:13 PM
If you are using a single 115v line via extension cord you dont have a lot of options.  Any generic 1500watt space heater will consume an entire 15 or 20amp circuit.  Make sure to use a heavy gauge extension cord or at best you will lose a lot of heat through the extension cord or at worst cause a fire hazard.  If you can run a 230v line on a double pole breaker you can get a lot more heat from the same wire gauge.  Not sure how feasible that is for you.

I highly recommend getting a “mr heater” that attaches to a 20lb grill propane tank in case you have a power failure or the electric heater cant keep up.  These put out a *lot* of heat compared to the electric space heater and can run for 24hrs even on low if you start with a full tank.  I keep four of them as emergency backup heat.  They are really cheap to purchase
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: Alejandro45 on November 09, 2019, 11:09:57 PM
For such a small space and being stuck with extension cords I would use 1 or two oil filled radiators on wheels. Set both on the lowest setting and go from there. Cheap easy to get and can store them away or use them in your house. Also the don’t dry out the air and I have seen some pretty efficient models.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 10, 2019, 05:49:08 AM
It's not a huge GH... 20ft X 12. Still under construction as time allows
Shed style pitched roof - 12 ft on high north side - 8 ft on low south side:



(https://i.postimg.cc/JswYRSFn/59-F6-B885-93-BA-4-D05-AB1-E-B6-B689725236-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JswYRSFn)


Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 10, 2019, 09:22:26 AM
I think you are gonna need more heat.  I had a similar size greenhouse but only one face was glazed, the rest insulated, and I used two of those space heaters - each on their own circuit.  Even so I had to run propane supplemental heat on colder nights.

It gets to zero degrees F or below here in pennsylvania, so might not be so bad for you, but I doubt a single  1500 heater is going to be enough
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 10, 2019, 09:27:03 AM
Also you could insulate the north wall instead of glazing it.  Or get some foam board insulation and put them in place only in winter
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 10, 2019, 12:00:45 PM
You are correct sir.... the north wall will not be glazed.
I figured 2 heaters on separate circuits... until I figure out something else better.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 10, 2019, 12:20:55 PM
You should be in good shape then, good luck.

I still recommend a propane backup, though, just in case
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 10, 2019, 01:51:14 PM
Are there any toxic issues with CO2 and Carbon monoxide?

kj

Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 10, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
Not if its burning cleanly.  Ive been inside my greenhouse countless times after unvented heaters ran all night and no issues.  I got a carbon monoxide alarm and its never shown significant levels, also got a co2 sensor and highest ive seen is 6k ppm which is well under OSHAs unsafe workplace level of 10k
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 10, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
Good to know.

kj

Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on November 10, 2019, 06:11:07 PM
I like the heat pump idea Kevin.  9000 or 12000 BTU mini split units are really cheap.  You can run the 9000 on a 15 amp circuit. 

I would dig a trench and run four #10 wires and and 230v 30amp run to the GH.  Then you can run all kinds of junk.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 11, 2019, 08:02:35 AM
I agree... and if money were no object... the heat pump would be the way to go.
I may have to put that on my wish list for the future.
Tomorrow... we are expecting temps in the low 20s... so for now I will prep for that.
Thanks.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 11, 2019, 11:36:19 AM
If you are mainly concerned about not allowing subfreezing temps I'm not sure how much a heat pump will benefit as it reverts to resistative heating around freezing.  If you were trying to maintain 50F or something like that when it is 35-45F it might be good... not sure I have never acutally used one. 

Two of those portable heaters is good because in my experience their thermometers are very unreliable, having two helps even out the heat
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: forumfool on November 11, 2019, 01:30:09 PM
Could just hook them up to thermocube wouldn’t have to worry about turning on/off
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 11, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
That's awesome, thanks for posting this forumfool.  I didn't realize such a simple/cheap device existed.

https://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-TC-3-Thermostatically-Controlled/dp/B0006U2HD2 (https://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-TC-3-Thermostatically-Controlled/dp/B0006U2HD2)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 11, 2019, 03:32:37 PM
Used an unvented natural gas for years.  Excellent heaters.

No way would I go with electric.

https://garden.org/thread/view/96330/Southern-Burner-Greenhouse-Heater/

I hope those studs are treated for ground contact! 
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on November 11, 2019, 03:42:38 PM
If you are mainly concerned about not allowing subfreezing temps I'm not sure how much a heat pump will benefit as it reverts to resistative heating around freezing.  If you were trying to maintain 50F or something like that when it is 35-45F it might be good... not sure I have never acutally used one. 

Two of those portable heaters is good because in my experience their thermometers are very unreliable, having two helps even out the heat

Brian, you are right they dont work in freezing temps.  It totally slipped my mind but this is correct.  We use a mini split in our garage but it never freezes here! 

Bad idea on the heat pump!  I would still run power to the GH though even if you end up with propane heating.  Running fans, and grow lamps in winter is really nice.

Brad
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 11, 2019, 05:23:17 PM
Every stick is pressure treated.
I have a solar panel and lithium battery/inverter system I will be installing for a LED low power DC lighting system.
Plus I gotta have tunes!

Kevin

Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 11, 2019, 06:12:10 PM
Newer air conditioned used to heat ,like Daikin LV ,is efficient up to minus 20 C outdoor.http://www.southshorehvac.ca/cold-weather-and-your-heat-pump/ (http://www.southshorehvac.ca/cold-weather-and-your-heat-pump/)
In usda zone 7 where you get a minimum of minus 18C in the coldest winter ,this heat pump will work at full efficiency.
It is more expensive than resistance heating but the electric bill will be a lot cheaper  and the air conditioner will probably pay for itself in only a winter season.
It has thermostat included in it and if you can get one from used ( second hand) then it will be dirt cheap.
Even in zone 6 and 5 its still better than resistance heating because you can save a lot of monney from electric bills until you get minus 15-20 C.
Initially i wanted to heat my greenhouse with an air conditioner( cheaper one,not Daikin) used as a heat pump and i have a big water well where i wanted to install the condenser ( the outdoor part of the air conditioner).
Because in the well there is no freezing ,it would have been 400 percent efficient all the time even if id live on zone 3-4.

In colder zones even if the efficiency drops by half you still get only half of the electric bill that you get with resistance heating.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: scashaggy on November 11, 2019, 08:03:29 PM
I don't know anything about heat (I'm in Miami); but have you considered a kerosene heater?  As stated, I don't know pros/cons, just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 11, 2019, 08:05:52 PM
I guess... I am... Thermo-Cube.
The automated feature... It does look pretty handy.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 11, 2019, 08:10:30 PM
Found this link.
At 0C ,the air conditioner its 3 times more efficient than resistance heating and at -10C its double efficient than resistance heating.
Even at -20C its still slightly better than resistance heating.
Off course ,this air condioned has a special feature for heating,it defrosts the cold coil peridically to keep it free of ice that can act as an insulator .
On top of that,for temperatures lover than minus 20C ,it switches to resistance heating wich it has it incorporated in it .
It only has resistance heating to protect the lifespan of the compressor.
https://www.nordicghp.com/2017/01/heat-pump-effective-temperature-range/ (https://www.nordicghp.com/2017/01/heat-pump-effective-temperature-range/)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 12, 2019, 07:32:00 AM
A few years back I experimented with a Starplate greenhouse. Weird/difficult angles aside... it is still functioning well and is a very efficient over-winter plant storage device:


(https://i.postimg.cc/vgqKwNqt/1-D3-C7424-AB3-D-4464-97-B9-6-C93-B57-B4-E55-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgqKwNqt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yj0Vzt0n/596-C2111-3-B1-A-4-ED6-BE92-3-F8-ED897200-C-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yj0Vzt0n)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4n008jhJ/AD53-C915-9-EF6-49-B9-AC00-B8812-CBB3-A60-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4n008jhJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8bMR5q1/DB822-AD0-29-C4-404-B-9-DCA-B029745934-BB-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8bMR5q1)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions - Plus construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 12, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
Every stick is pressure treated.
I have a solar panel and lithium battery/inverter system I will be installing for a LED low power DC lighting system.
Plus I gotta have tunes!

Kevin

Excellent!

Hard freeze with gusty winds for about 18 hours now. Lots of ice. Anenometer froze up yesterday. Greenhouse has stayed at a toasty 33 - 38F per a wireless greenhouse temp monitor 500' away from our house.  Console sits on a window ledge, temp monitor is strapped to a column this side.

24F as I write.  Greenhouse propane heater is holding the temps to around 35F, second row, left digit.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NKsT0y59/Temp-Nov12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKsT0y59)

Someone asked about venting - if your greenhouse is fairly leaky then no, you don't need fresh air or venting.  I LOVED the Southern Burner greenhouse heater for its accuracy, no maintenance and clean output.  Raised orchids, took many a show award.

Fan sitting near the 18' peak faces down.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Bt73wbK5/Clear-NRoof-Polycarb.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Bt73wbK5)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 12, 2019, 10:45:04 AM
Mark,
I envy those nice heaters. Beautiful GH too!
It's going down to 21 tonight... setting a record for cold.
I'm hoping for some nice hard sunshine today so I can at least get a little solar heating.
I depend on some thermal mass... brick floor and open soil floors to help moderate the temps.
I try to keep the containers well watered and the ground soaked to absorb heat.
I think it helps take the edge off.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 12, 2019, 12:35:52 PM
Mark,
I envy those nice heaters. Beautiful GH too!
It's going down to 21 tonight... setting a record for cold.
I'm hoping for some nice hard sunshine today so I can at least get a little solar heating.
I depend on some thermal mass... brick floor and open soil floors to help moderate the temps.
I try to keep the containers well watered and the ground soaked to absorb heat.
I think it helps take the edge off.

Kevin

Good luck!  Sounds like your greenhouse is nice and tight.  Mine is not especially when we have 35 mph north winds at 25F!  Greenhouse door was iced over this morn, couldn't open it.  Still freezing here.

I'd have one of those bell top burners that sits atop a 25# propane tank as backup.  I use one to toast up the bathroom before a bath.  They're 5K, 10K, and 15K.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: TNAndy on November 12, 2019, 01:20:13 PM
Regarding electric heaters, I learned a very hard lesson several years ago.  I had been using a pretty nice oscillating heater with a built-in thermostat.  Unfortunately, if the power goes off, these types of heaters do not turn themselves back on.  The power doesn't have to be off very long for this to happen.  A flicker might do it.

We left the house to visit family and friends over Christmas and were gone a week.  Apparently, there was an outage.  I lost dozens and dozens of little coffee saplings.  (Strangely, a few saplings survived.  I have no idea if a tiny minority of coffee trees are slightly more cold tolerant than most or not.  It's not the kind of experiment I want to repeat.)

If there's any chance you won't be on site to monitor and remedy any power outages, I strongly recommend a basic heater with no electronics.  Since then, I've used a thermostat-free blower type heater and an oil-based radiator type heater.  If the power is on, these heaters are on.  Fortunately, basic heaters tend to be less expensive than the fancy ones with thermostats.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 12, 2019, 01:28:40 PM
Andy,
I think you make a good point... Periodic power outages are a fact of life.
On the upside... these Milk-House style heaters I have are either on or off.
Pretty basic. As long as they are getting juice they will run. No re-set necessary.
Also... I plan to be be on-site, as you say, whenever I use them.
I am chained to these plants!

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 12, 2019, 04:56:57 PM
I remember your geodesic dome pictures that you posted on my dome greenhouse thread.
This is my dome ,picture taken by a neighbour .
I didnt finished it iet with double glazing but im cloose and im also working at the wood heating device.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4qHv0CS/IMG-20191112-WA0006.jpg)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 12, 2019, 08:18:04 PM
Yours is a much more elegant and beautiful structure... a true dome.
My is technically an Icosahedron... one of the 5 platonic solids.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5XHN3p1D/Icosahedron.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XHN3p1D)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Seanny on November 12, 2019, 08:52:12 PM
I used 2 of these, RANCO ETC-111000-000 Electric Temperature Control,
for my refrigerators.

The settings are persistent.
The controllers recover from power loss and continue to run their programs.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 12, 2019, 10:00:14 PM
Here's an image from the Starplate folks:


(https://i.postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22/plan-l.gif) (https://postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22)

A bunch of 2X4s connected with bolts and covered in GH plastic.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 12, 2019, 10:12:19 PM
Here's an image from the Starplate folks:
My dome is also an icosahedron just its a 4V frequency.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K8RgKwyd/frequency-diagram.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22/plan-l.gif) (https://postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22)

A bunch of 2X4s connected with bolts and covered in GH plastic.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 13, 2019, 08:27:42 AM
Regarding electric heaters, I learned a very hard lesson several years ago.  I had been using a pretty nice oscillating heater with a built-in thermostat.  Unfortunately, if the power goes off, these types of heaters do not turn themselves back on.  The power doesn't have to be off very long for this to happen.  A flicker might do it.

Yep, my controller and propane heater depend on electricity. After I lost years of hard work during a heater failure Jan. 2018 I bought a free standing Dyna-Glo 150K heater as back up and monitor the temps with a Davis Instruments wireless alarm system that works off battery backup.

That's another bennie with the smaller Southern Burner heaters, they don't use electricity.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 13, 2019, 08:32:07 AM
Here's an image from the Starplate folks:


(https://i.postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22/plan-l.gif) (https://postimg.cc/pm4GhQ22)

A bunch of 2X4s connected with bolts and covered in GH plastic.

Kevin

I have been fascinated by those Starplates since they came out, what, about 40 or so years ago?  Am just wondering about venting, hinging a roof and wall panel automated style.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Pokeweed on November 13, 2019, 08:46:43 AM
The Southern burner heaters look really good, but they are out of business now. Probably still some in supplier inventory. D
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 13, 2019, 09:42:49 AM
The Southern burner heaters look really good, but they are out of business now. Probably still some in supplier inventory. D

News to me.  Closed March 2019.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 13, 2019, 09:46:37 AM
The Starplate system can be problematic. It requires a lot of custom construction solutions.
It was a stop gap measure for me... but several years later it still functions fine for what it's worth.
A single sheet of plastic will wrap perfectly around the bottom section. Than another will wrap perfectly around the top.
I insulated the northern section with foil covered bubblewrap stuff.
And I built some odd looking triangular doors in the north section that opened in... and gravity automatically closes them.
Ventilation is accomplished by propping the doors open:


(https://i.postimg.cc/pyCBNDh0/45-F2398-B-07-B7-47-B6-BF7-A-A345-DACDF1-F0-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyCBNDh0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KRYDmRtm/6-E0-AF41-D-26-CC-4-B59-AA7-A-C4576-A8-A8-A9-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRYDmRtm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2VXFyrxh/97917-ED9-E9-CA-43-DC-97-A0-7-D74-D081-A508-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VXFyrxh)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 13, 2019, 11:14:30 AM
If id use propane to heat then i would buy an older heating central like a Viessmann 22kw that works on gas .
It doesnt loose temp memory in case of a power outage and they are dirt cheap from used @ 100 dollars.
Pipes, and one or 2 radiators or instead radiators i would go with floor( ground heating).
1 kw of gas here its 10 times cheaper than 1 kw of electric power.
Even if you use 3 times more efficient heat pump for heating ,the gas would be still at least double cheaper than that.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 13, 2019, 12:51:36 PM
The geo-dome and icosa-dome look really cool but the work involved is too much for me.  My A-frame ("gothic arch") was plenty enough work for me and I didn't even have to cut the frame.

If I was building another greenhouse I'd do quonset-style just wide for enough single sheets of polycarbonate to span the roof... rather than having two roof faces and twice the work.  And wood frame instead of metal... installing thousands of drill-screws into steel sucked.  Maybe some kind of clamp system would work instead of screws.  Or even magnets but they get expensive
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 13, 2019, 12:54:16 PM
Where I am, Natural Gas is dirt cheap, but Propane is relatively expensive.  Propane is cheaper than electric heating, but not nearly as cheap as natural gas.  Natural Gas is only available as a piped utility, but propane can use big tanks and truck deliveries.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Daintree on November 13, 2019, 11:42:59 PM
It gets MUCH colder here, but I would recommend a portable radiant propane heater.  They are made for garages, ice fishing huts, etc.  For your needs, it would run a long time on a 20 lb tank, cost way less than electric, and you can easily move it around.
I heat my 700 SF greenhouse with the natural gas equivalent of these types of heaters (although mine are larger and wall mounted) and find they work very well.
If you have a Home Depot, there is a Dyna-Glo 18,000 BTU propane cabinet gas portable heater for about $60.

Cheers,
Carolyn
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 14, 2019, 05:01:55 AM
Propane from gas tank has 14 kw per kg heating power while wood has 4 kw per kilo.
You need 3 times more wood to carry than propane but wood its easyer to get,cheaper,safer.
Id chose wood heating over propane gas canisters anytime.
Calculate kwh price of the different fuels in your area before you decide to get a heating sistem.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 14, 2019, 10:04:02 AM
The geo-dome and icosa-dome look really cool but the work involved is too much for me.  My A-frame ("gothic arch") was plenty enough work for me and I didn't even have to cut the frame.

If I was building another greenhouse I'd do quonset-style just wide for enough single sheets of polycarbonate to span the roof... rather than having two roof faces and twice the work.  And wood frame instead of metal... installing thousands of drill-screws into steel sucked.  Maybe some kind of clamp system would work instead of screws.  Or even magnets but they get expensive

Been there done that.  I have to predrill using a tungsten bit before driving a "self tapping" screw into mine.  And the columns are rusting like crazy at the bottom.  Nice for 7 year old house, eh?   >:( Polycarb is the only way to go. Most of mine is Palram Solarsoft.  North roof was redone in clear Lexan poly carb.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 14, 2019, 10:54:20 AM
So far my Conley galvanized steel frame has not rusted at all despite extreme humidity.  It is raised off ground level, though, so the feet stay out of the dirt.

Polycarbonate really is fantastic aside from the installation effort.  My old garage-roof greenhouse panels still looked great after... 5yrs?  I forget how long its been.  And they don't ever seem to get dirty on the outside, rain and snow keeps them looking nice.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Heater Suggestions?
Post by: lebmung on November 15, 2019, 05:18:40 AM

You talk about $2500 A/C for a small greenhouse.

If you use electricity to heat then dont use electric heaters but instead use a heat pump ( an air conditioned used to heat).
Electric heaters are rated to 95 % efficiency maximum but the air conditioner has up to 400% percent efficiency.
That means you get 4 kw of heat with one kw of electric power consumed by the AC.
This efficiency drops if outside its too cold and at minus 15C  ,the efficiency of the AC is same as that of the resistance heaters.
You will need to heat the greenhouse mostly at night.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 15, 2019, 08:59:22 AM
That heat pump price is problematic for my GH project.
It's a DIY so I can keep the quality up and price down somewhat.
As long as I can prevent freezing temps this winter... I will be OK.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: lebmung on November 15, 2019, 11:46:18 AM
Kevin for your size and zone with that greenhouse to maintain a minimum 5C temperature you will draw about 900 - 1200 kwh per month for winter months. Probably it will coat you $100-$140 per month. This estimate is for double foil poly, or polycarbonate cover, no air leaks.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 15, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
It doesnt have to be that expensive.I mentioned buying one from used wich would be a lot cheaper.
And doesnt has to be Daikin or even a reverse cycle heat pump because even with a normal average air conditioner heat punp you will still save a lot of monney in a winter,maybe 2,5 cheaper than to heat with resistance heater and the air conditioner allready has( look for it) resistance heating incorporated.
I would pay 100 dollars on an air conditioner from used .
There are somme that are window mounted and they have the condenser and the fan in one piece ( no need for pipes).
Just look at efficiency rating on the label for heating az you want the most efficient to the lowest temperature possible but any ordinary air conditioner used for heating will save you a lot of monney compared to resistance heating.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Seanny on November 15, 2019, 09:44:49 PM
It's cheaper if you run a loop of water pipe from water heater to the green house.
Use copper pipe in the green house to use it as a radiator.
Hook up a recirculating pump to a thermostat in the green house.
When you are sleeping you put the water heater to work on your green house.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 15, 2019, 11:42:01 PM
Wouldnt it leak a ton of heat to the outside air with a pipe exposed running across the yard?  Unless your water heater fuel source is much cheaper than electric i think this would be counterproductive, and if it were you could pipe that fuel to a small heater inside greenhoise
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 16, 2019, 10:36:31 AM
Right now I'm just running the electric milk-house style space heaters on freezing days/nights.
These heater go for about $20 each.
Most days they need no supplemental heating.
I'm not trying to maintain a tropical climate around the clock... I just want them to survive the freezing temps.
It's pretty interesting the way plants can adapt to the temp variations.
It's not unusual for sunny day temps to reach 100F+... with some night-time temps going into the 30Fs.
The plants seem to take it all in stride. They are much more flexible than you might think.
In fact... My citrus had it's best year ever. As did my Pitangatubas, Cherry of the Rio Grande, Guavas, Starfruit, Jaboticaba etc.

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V/E799193-A-B897-4-D60-8-FDB-BE041-DE24-F1-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ/0-D56-ED91-19-C8-43-FA-BC59-65-A05-D6-FCEDB-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7G7khdkx/31078160-DBEF-43-EB-BB3-C-5-FAB46995901-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7G7khdkx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB/Starfruit-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J/Starfruit-02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on November 16, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Wouldnt it leak a ton of heat to the outside air with a pipe exposed running across the yard?  Unless your water heater fuel source is much cheaper than electric i think this would be counterproductive, and if it were you could pipe that fuel to a small heater inside greenhoise

I think you are right and it would make more sense to pupe natural gas or propane to the GH and run a gas heater directly.  No losses, no pumps or other junk. 

Easiest is probably get a big propane bottle and run the heater off it. 
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on November 16, 2019, 12:43:57 PM
Right now I'm just running the electric milk-house style space heaters on freezing days/nights.
These heater go for about $20 each.
Most days they need no supplemental heating.
I'm not trying to maintain a tropical climate around the clock... I just want them to survive the freezing temps.
It's pretty interesting the way plants can adapt to the temp variations.
It's not unusual for sunny day temps to reach 100F+... with some night-time temps going into the 30Fs.
The plants seem to take it all in stride. They are much more flexible than you might think.
In fact... My citrus had it's best year ever. As did my Pitangatubas, Cherry of the Rio Grande, Guavas, Starfruit, Jaboticaba etc.

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V/E799193-A-B897-4-D60-8-FDB-BE041-DE24-F1-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ/0-D56-ED91-19-C8-43-FA-BC59-65-A05-D6-FCEDB-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7G7khdkx/31078160-DBEF-43-EB-BB3-C-5-FAB46995901-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7G7khdkx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB/Starfruit-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J/Starfruit-02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J)

Nice Kevin, good job with the plants and GH.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 16, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Right now I'm just running the electric milk-house style space heaters on freezing days/nights.
These heater go for about $20 each.
Most days they need no supplemental heating.
I'm not trying to maintain a tropical climate around the clock... I just want them to survive the freezing temps.
It's pretty interesting the way plants can adapt to the temp variations.
It's not unusual for sunny day temps to reach 100F+... with some night-time temps going into the 30Fs.
The plants seem to take it all in stride. They are much more flexible than you might think.
In fact... My citrus had it's best year ever. As did my Pitangatubas, Cherry of the Rio Grande, Guavas, Starfruit, Jaboticaba etc.

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V/E799193-A-B897-4-D60-8-FDB-BE041-DE24-F1-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRPYQb7V)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ/0-D56-ED91-19-C8-43-FA-BC59-65-A05-D6-FCEDB-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLHwWRrQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7G7khdkx/31078160-DBEF-43-EB-BB3-C-5-FAB46995901-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7G7khdkx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB/Starfruit-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzKjYrGB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J/Starfruit-02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9Tkn71J)
Nice collection of exotic fruit trees.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 16, 2019, 08:02:09 PM
Right now I'm just running the electric milk-house style space heaters on freezing days/nights.
These heater go for about $20 each.
Most days they need no supplemental heating.
I'm not trying to maintain a tropical climate around the clock... I just want them to survive the freezing temps.
It's pretty interesting the way plants can adapt to the temp variations.
It's not unusual for sunny day temps to reach 100F+... with some night-time temps going into the 30Fs.
The plants seem to take it all in stride. They are much more flexible than you might think.
In fact... My citrus had it's best year ever. As did my Pitangatubas, Cherry of the Rio Grande, Guavas, Starfruit, Jaboticaba etc.

Looking good!   I too go cold with a heater setpoint at 34F,
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 17, 2019, 08:26:09 AM
Last night was forecast to be a low of 36F... so no supplemental heat.
Yesterday is was a beautiful sunny day with GH temps hovering around 100F at their peak.
Same for the next few days.
With these dryer conditions I hope to get more work done on the new GH.

Kevin

Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 19, 2019, 08:44:18 AM
Doors framed in and recycled pavers brick path laid in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QV7GcfTn/5-E6-BE181-6-CB4-4-F28-97-B7-396-FD318849-D-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QV7GcfTn)

Waterproofing and installing OSB 4X8s on north wall today:
This is the product I am using for waterproofing the OSB panels:
(https://i.postimg.cc/fJ7V6HnV/henry-roof-coatings-he287sf871-64-1000.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJ7V6HnV)

I used a lot of these Simpson Strong Tie Brand 18-Gauge Gusset Angles too
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSWBd8dk/simpson-strong-tie-wood-connectors-ga1-64-1000.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSWBd8dk)

Kevin

Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on November 19, 2019, 12:36:15 PM
Looks great.  You might want to put foam board insulation on the floor if you are using containers, or around the perimeter (in-ground) if you are planting in the dirt.  A lot of heat can be lost through conduction through the ground
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 19, 2019, 05:53:58 PM
Nice job Kevin.   What zone are you in?

I run a dirt floor.  Works great and come time to drop another roll of tied up RootBuilder it's convenient to choose your spot, backfill and plant
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 19, 2019, 09:50:26 PM
Mark,
I'm in West central Alabama - Tuscaloosa... in the northern part of 8a.
I too will keep an unfinished floor. This GH will be packed with containerized plants.
I actually use the ground as part of my thermal mass heat storage strategy.
When I know it will be cold... I soak the floor with water during the day to absorb as much solar heat as possible.
I soak all of the containers as well.
It's most effective on sunny days. The wet ground and the wet containers store heat during the day and radiate it back out at night.
I believe it helps take the edge off anyway.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 19, 2019, 10:51:29 PM
Have you considered a small rocket stove on wood branches or pellets?
Somme people even use corn grains as fuel for them and its quite cheap to run like that thogh il feel petty since somme people die of starvation in somme countryes.
That would be cheaper than all gas or electric heating.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 20, 2019, 09:30:27 AM
Mr Walnut,
While I do like the idea in theory of a pellet burning stove.... In the right situation it would be ideal.
In this case... I have issues with any heater that requires combustion ventilation.
I would prefer not to pierce the structure with the chimney/vent a combustion stove would require.
Also... Air leaks, water leaks, etc.
Although I do find the image of a cozy fireplace in my structure rather nice.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 20, 2019, 09:39:51 AM
Recycled brick paver path being laid....


(https://i.postimg.cc/677tfbc8/A0-DA319-E-870-C-4-F58-9-B0-E-89-EB6-A05-AC56-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/677tfbc8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/648mDF7Z/082203-EC-F8-A9-4-E64-B90-F-F4-A2-E672-CB57-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/648mDF7Z)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 20, 2019, 09:52:28 AM
More construction pix

Lumber loaded from Home Depot:

(https://i.postimg.cc/06TRdpVx/50357-A5-A-A812-45-B3-BB4-A-78-FC1-DA2947-B-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06TRdpVx)

Layout:

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDQ8rsQL/59874-FD1-8-FB7-4142-882-B-8943-EF58-AC2-C-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDQ8rsQL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/GTJ41348/EA1634-E7-58-B4-4-B1-D-8071-37-ADBB20-DE4-A-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GTJ41348)

Gusset Details:

(https://i.postimg.cc/QKVy2C4S/1-A8-F2-D45-4-CF3-4-E23-90-FC-E2-C66096-B61-A-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKVy2C4S)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pphSk9nL/958-A59-D8-C2-DD-4-A10-AC42-CA0-BCB4-BD5-C7-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pphSk9nL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N53zng17/CBEF7427-DC07-4191-8-BFD-A1-ADA1-C5-C55-C-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N53zng17)

Lots of clamps while Gorilla Glue drys:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjfyfvCK/D4-FADF97-CD00-4-D6-A-9-C4-D-74-C4-F19-EF7-FC-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjfyfvCK)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on November 20, 2019, 10:09:26 AM
Ive just installed my rocket stove today and with normal ,vertical chimney smokes a lot until it heats the chimney.
But with a short horizontal chimney works at perfection.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 20, 2019, 11:07:03 AM
Sounds nice.

Kevin

Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 21, 2019, 08:30:08 AM
Exciting eh?

In Corpus Christi which has about the same RH and heat you have I had exactly the same config as you except the lean too was attached to the entire south wall of a garage, painted white for reflection same as your OSB board.  Grew the hell outta orchids, ferns, etc.  I installed a high speed fan in the ridge of a short wall and on the opposite short wall installed a willy nilly aspen wet pad that worked very well for cooling.  I basically laid out a 12' roll of 1X2" hardware cloth on the ground, snipped the wires here and there and bent them in 90* to snag/hold the pad, folded it up to make a 6' pad, wired the sides closed, hung it with a recycle pump, float valve, perf. PVC pipe overhead etc. etc.

Door had a flat panel hinged on the top at the bottom framing kept close with a few magnets at the bottom, sealed with foam tape.  Come winter when the temps got up the  exhaust fan would kick in, flip the panel open and cool perfectly.

Mark 
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 21, 2019, 08:59:59 AM
Ingenius Mark!
Sounds sort of like the same principal as the vent of my clothes dryer.

I have two largish doors.... on the east and west ends...approximately 4X8.
Extra large to pass containerized plants in and out with minimal damage.
And to be opened for temp regulation on hot days.
The south wall plastic is designed to roll up for warm weather.
I may need some sort of ridge vent on the north wall as well.
Haven't sorted that out yet.

Kevin
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Seanny on November 21, 2019, 03:26:54 PM
Put in some windows and use these Agriculture Solutions Univent Automatic Vent Opener.
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on November 23, 2019, 08:32:55 AM
Waterproofing the wall panels:
(https://i.postimg.cc/nsKQKjz2/4-C788-F55-1-EE2-4-B10-B115-B5-CB678-F921-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsKQKjz2)

Door Hardware details:

Stainless:
(https://i.postimg.cc/8j3WTg9R/CEBB4746-D3-DF-485-A-8-A50-1376081-DB5-FF-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8j3WTg9R)
Galvanized:
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrC5JD6T/EC0-EA5-BE-5-F75-4-B07-875-A-F62095587-D1-C-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrC5JD6T)
Title: Re: Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on November 24, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
Nice!  I've linked a Facebook gardening forum here - Central Texas Backyard Gardeners. 
Title: Re: UPDATED PHOTOS! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 01, 2019, 11:27:19 AM
Mostly finished...Plants installed:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qgXMPGj5/229-BEC8-A-83-CF-4486-A0-A9-773-E007-A6094-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgXMPGj5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CdVxr2H8/275-D11-D7-1066-494-A-A8-CA-41034831-F060-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdVxr2H8)


(https://i.postimg.cc/WhNbTJyb/10-BD1-DD7-3-B16-4000-9-AAB-A54-EEE3-B882-E-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhNbTJyb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3k6KXfxd/BC0-FD567-65-FC-4202-963-D-6-AECE4-B3-BD92-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3k6KXfxd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CzcM1xyC/EB4-CA925-A79-F-44-CA-843-E-F62944376077-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzcM1xyC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MnX6jJxC/FA76-BADB-6-A9-C-4-FA2-9-B2-C-2771-DF9-D38-FA-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnX6jJxC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWVhH7Yr/9-BF58536-E2-D5-40-D6-A892-E7-AFE373-D4-F0-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWVhH7Yr)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on December 01, 2019, 12:18:20 PM
Fast progress Kevin.  Great job. 
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 01, 2019, 12:25:53 PM
Thank you!
It was fun to work on... plus now I have space for more plants!

Kevin
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on December 01, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
It filled up fast.  Now you need another one.
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 01, 2019, 02:07:00 PM
Brad,
I live in an inner city neighborhood... and I have about .5 acres to work with.
I would certainly love to be set up in your situation with plenty of room to stretch out.

Kevin



Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on December 01, 2019, 02:48:18 PM
Great work! 

As soon as I finished my greenhouse I was already thinking about where I could build another one.  There is never enough space
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 01, 2019, 04:16:25 PM
Thank you... I know what you mean.

Kevin

Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: SeaWalnut on December 01, 2019, 04:54:02 PM
Looks great.
To stop condensation and keep the heat in you can insulate it by adding a second layer on the interior ,of verry thi polycarbonate of foil.
You can even make it remouvable .
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: W. on December 01, 2019, 07:13:34 PM
Brad,
I live in an inner city neighborhood... and I have about .5 acres to work with.
I would certainly love to be set up in your situation with plenty of room to stretch out.

Kevin

The thing about old neighborhoods in Alabama, with some exceptions, is that our lots are considered enormous compared to houses of similar age in the Midwest and Northeast. More room for gardens and greenhouses (though most people just fill their yards with Bermudagrass).
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: spaugh on December 01, 2019, 07:31:19 PM
Brad,
I live in an inner city neighborhood... and I have about .5 acres to work with.
I would certainly love to be set up in your situation with plenty of room to stretch out.

Kevin

I wish I could afford another GH, mines full.  Hard to justify the cost even for a cheap one without power or any fans, still costs a lot.  Then I would have to fence it all off to keep the wildlife out.  All this space requires a lot of extra BS because of the animals and sloped land. 
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on December 01, 2019, 08:18:12 PM

... All this space requires a lot of extra BS because of the animals and sloped land.


Get yourself a pickaxe and shovel, and become a terrace farmer!

(https://soilcares.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/terrace-farming.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 03, 2019, 11:45:07 AM
Both doors open for better ventilation on sunny days:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s2sXZVDn/5-F8-B6-F68-F370-4040-A1-FF-9-C5-C1495-CCBC-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5yB9tTWc/51238-E2-C-3032-403-B-99-C1-A712313-F7-A8-A-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on December 03, 2019, 01:16:54 PM
Really nice, simple design.  Makes me feel like my greenhouse is over-engineered :)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 03, 2019, 06:41:18 PM
Thank you...
You are too kind!

Kevin

Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 03, 2019, 10:29:00 PM
Batten details:


(https://i.postimg.cc/rdwmbjRK/7-A46-B846-526-E-435-D-AB1-B-937-CD2-F93-F93-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdwmbjRK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/680qYg3k/B7-D4-A467-F7-A0-4895-8825-81-B54325470-B-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/680qYg3k)

I spent an hour ripping PT 2X6s on the table saw and fastened them with outdoor rated pocket screws... minus the pockets of course.

When warm weather returns I'll be able to easily remove the battens on the south facing side and roll up the plastic for excellent ventilation.

That's the plan anyway.

Kevin

Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Daintree on December 04, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
Clever!!!
That is going to work like a charm come springtime!

I have never had good luck with opening my greenhouse to the outdoors, since my plants seem to attract an abnormal number of aphids if set out in the open for more than 30 seconds.  I guess our "desert aphids" are starving for something green...

Carolyn
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 06, 2019, 08:57:55 AM
In the past I would bring my plants into one of my 2 smaller greenhouses for the winter and then bring them back out for warmer weather... which here is about 8-9 months out of the year.
My plan now is to leave them in place year-round.
It gets old dragging 20 gallon containers in and out twice a year.

Kevin
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 06, 2019, 09:02:39 AM
I've got 2 MC4 cables for my solar panel system I need to run underground into the greenhouse.
I've been looking at PVC conduit.
The plan is to run them under the GH wall without compromising its air tightness.
Any ideas how best to accomplish this?
Here's the chain...

Grape 100w Panel
(https://i.postimg.cc/BL2xv14R/Grape-Solar-Panel.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BL2xv14R)

Pair of MC4 Cables:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SYrC6FXr/MC4-Cables.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYrC6FXr)

SUAOKI Portable Power Station:
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKpRZcyQ/Suaoki-Power-Station.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKpRZcyQ)

Bonnio Infinity Zero Gravity Chair:
(https://i.postimg.cc/y3B03YNx/Bonnlo-Infinity-Zero-Gravity-Chair-Outdoor-Lounge-Patio-Chairs-w.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/y3B03YNx)





Thanks.

Kevin



Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on December 06, 2019, 09:44:14 AM
Fastest way is to use an edging tool to cut a slit into ground and stuff the bare cable into the dirt a couple inches down.  At risk to damage

Safer way is dig a 6in or so trench with a narrow trenching shovel and/or pickaxe.  Then put gray pvc conduit and the cable in as you go

Code complaint way is 18in trench, bedded with gravel, fishing the cable through the conduit after it is fuly assembled.  Or 24in trench with direct bury rated cable like UF-B and no conduit. 

I dont know anything about MC4 cables nor solar power.

If you arent pulling a permit just bury it in a way you feel is safe

Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 06, 2019, 11:13:00 AM
The foundation... if you want to call it that... consists of PT 2X4s of various lengths.
I frequently think of this type of GH as a Walk-In-Cloche.
I currently have poked a hole underneath it to run my extension cords for my heaters... and backfilled it with the soil.
I suppose I could do the same with the MC4 cables.
I was looking to step it up a bit to something more elegant... if you can call it that.
PVC conduit was something I was considering. Inexpensive, flexible and waterproof.

Kevin



Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 08, 2019, 06:10:43 AM
Way to go!  Nice job and you'll get a lot of fun and good eats out of it.  I spent hours yesterday blasting soot off my citrus trees.  About 75% of the leaves were coated black but a blast of a mix of Ivory liquid dish soap, blast of well water and then a rinse of rain water did the trick.  Having a greenhouses creates more work with more disease and insect pressures than not.  I've had a terrible time with mealybugs and scale this year.  It's always something.

Batten details:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rdwmbjRK/7-A46-B846-526-E-435-D-AB1-B-937-CD2-F93-F93-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdwmbjRK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/680qYg3k/B7-D4-A467-F7-A0-4895-8825-81-B54325470-B-1-105-c.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/680qYg3k)

I spent an hour ripping PT 2X6s on the table saw and fastened them with outdoor rated pocket screws... minus the pockets of course.

When warm weather returns I'll be able to easily remove the battens on the south facing side and roll up the plastic for excellent ventilation.

That's the plan anyway.

Kevin

That's what folks do here to beat the heat - poly for winter, shade cloth for summer.

Enjoy...
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 08, 2019, 06:18:50 AM
The foundation... if you want to call it that... consists of PT 2X4s of various lengths.
I frequently think of this type of GH as a Walk-In-Cloche.
I currently have poked a hole underneath it to run my extension cords for my heaters... and backfilled it with the soil.
I suppose I could do the same with the MC4 cables.
I was looking to step it up a bit to something more elegant... if you can call it that.
PVC conduit was something I was considering. Inexpensive, flexible and waterproof.

Kevin

It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. The more I can keep government out of my personal life the better.  Screw 'em.  Luckily our county/city is very conservative and stays out of the biz of its citizens. 
 
I ran electricity and a gas line for heating and cooling a greenhouse years ago in a hand dug trench.  A grubbing hoe with a heavy blade on one end and pick on the other makes short work of 20' runs.

20' X 9' lean to facing due south.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bGPx28SD/Greenhouse.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGPx28SD)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 08, 2019, 07:07:25 AM
I have found that most zoning issues with our city/municipality come from neighbor complaints. The city tends to be reactive... not proactive. Fortunately I live in a predominantly student neighborhood... being less than a mile from the states largest university.
Students are renters. They have no interest in what I do... and they wouldn't complain about anything.
Too busy being students. On the other hand there are certain quality of life issues which we have learned to adapt to... noise, traffic, litter, on street parking, parties etc. But on the upside... we are practically invisible to the typical college student.
Although I did check with the city before I built... just to be sure there would be no nasty surprises after the fact.
Height. Square footage. Setback from the property line. Stuff like that.
I am in compliance.
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 08, 2019, 07:19:29 AM
I spent hours yesterday blasting soot off my citrus trees.  About 75% of the leaves were coated black but a blast of a mix of Ivory liquid dish soap, blast of well water and then a rinse of rain water did the trick.  Having a greenhouses creates more work with more disease and insect pressures than not.  I've had a terrible time with mealybugs and scale this year.  It's always something.

Mark,
I have a row of mandarine oranges growing on the south side of my house.
I used to have a bad issue with black soot mold from the mealy bugs that fed on a nearby hackberry tree.
They would drop sugar onto the leaves which fed the mold.
That tree departed this world a few years ago... and so has my black soot problem.

Although I occasionally see black soot mold rearing its ugly head from scale bugs.
But only on the containerized citrus.
The citrus in the ground gets enough cold every winter to keep the insects at bay.

Kevin


Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: brian on December 10, 2019, 12:00:36 PM
those thermocubes are only three bucks on amazon at the moment:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U2HD2/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U2HD2/)
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 10, 2019, 08:27:11 PM
Their prices are in constant flux... much more expensive when I checked.
Thanks for the heads-up Brian. I'll keep an eye out.

Kevin
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY Solar Panel - Construction Photos
Post by: Kevin Jones on December 13, 2019, 09:43:34 AM
They are back at $3.11 again.

Kevin
Title: Re: Updated Photos! - Greenhouse Ideas - DIY - Construction Photos
Post by: Mark in Texas on December 14, 2019, 06:48:27 AM

Mark,
I have a row of mandarine oranges growing on the south side of my house.
I used to have a bad issue with black soot mold from the mealy bugs that fed on a nearby hackberry tree.
They would drop sugar onto the leaves which fed the mold.
That tree departed this world a few years ago... and so has my black soot problem.

Although I occasionally see black soot mold rearing its ugly head from scale bugs.
But only on the containerized citrus.
The citrus in the ground gets enough cold every winter to keep the insects at bay.

Kevin

I loaded up a hose on garden sprayer with a mix of Ivory soap, blasted the soot off, rinsed.  Even though I quickly followed up with a blast of well water and then rain water for some strange reason a lot of my blood orange leaves fell off at the petiole.  Looks weird, a 100 big toothpix lined up on branches.

Did a lot of citrus grafts too last year.  Still haven't picked any Marrs oranges.  They are as big as grapefruits.  This is a graft on a key lime tree that's produced at least 300 awesome limes.  Am getting limequats too from grafts.

November:

(https://i.postimg.cc/p9r40tL1/Marrs-Nov21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9r40tL1)

Quaffing  (not shooting) Casa Noble Anejo (try this one!) with key limes never tasted so good.

(https://i.postimg.cc/XrptLbJ1/Keylimes-Sept14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrptLbJ1)