Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: palmcity on April 19, 2020, 11:42:51 AM

Title: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: palmcity on April 19, 2020, 11:42:51 AM
Seeing is believing:
https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/fl/stuart/KSUA/date/2020-3 (https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/fl/stuart/KSUA/date/2020-3)
https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/fl/stuart/KSUA/date/2020-4 (https://www.wunderground.com/calendar/us/fl/stuart/KSUA/date/2020-4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jLfHVC0Q/IMG-0200.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLfHVC0Q)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dhmSY5PB/IMG-0231.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhmSY5PB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/67cSdYM3/IMG-0251.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67cSdYM3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/F7bxd1WF/IMG-0254.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7bxd1WF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FdFMq2Y3/IMG-0257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FdFMq2Y3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pyLv1nj4/IMG-0261.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyLv1nj4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJGWQ3RJ/IMG-0263.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJGWQ3RJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mc7ZBfZn/IMG-0266.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mc7ZBfZn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ns3RsML9/IMG-0282.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ns3RsML9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yDdS1N2b/IMG-0283.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yDdS1N2b)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k6rVvvG0/IMG-0284.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6rVvvG0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1fWrcbQb/IMG-0286.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fWrcbQb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LJYLkXvZ/IMG-0288.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJYLkXvZ)
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Orkine on April 19, 2020, 12:36:09 PM
I have trees blooming now too, a fourth bloom on at least one variety and a third on a couple of others.

Many have one or two confused panicles (mixed vegetative and flowers) but two trees clearly are blooming again.  I may have fruit on my CHoc Anon from May till November at this rate.  It has held fruit each of the three blooms so far this year.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Seanny on April 19, 2020, 03:00:36 PM
Cold is one of the many factors that trigger flowering.
There is no myth.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: palmcity on April 19, 2020, 07:25:34 PM
It's a Statement and says: Cold temperature needed for bloom response.... Its either True or False...Hint look at the temperature graph links and look at the mango blooms...

Since we had zero cold weather in last month and 1/2..... And bloom response occurred without Cold Weather.... The answer Must Be: False.... (Myth: a widely held but false belief or idea.)

If it was a True Statement.... The blooms would NOT be in the pictures and on the Trees as we had zero days of Cold weather during this period.....

The point is Cold weather is Not required to set mango blooms... Yes I know it is one of the factors that can help a mango to bloom.... But But But,,, It Is NOT required for setting mango blooms....

I thought it was easy to answer...  ???
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Alejandro45 on April 19, 2020, 09:09:30 PM
I always wondered why they need cold. Aren’t there varieties from Panama, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Haiti? Some those countries are zone 13. Is it a pronounced dry period that plays into it? Ghana is a mango producing country, its located 8 degrees north of equator. Let that sink in :o!
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Squam256 on April 19, 2020, 09:24:20 PM
I always wondered why they need cold. Aren’t there varieties from Panama, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Haiti? Some those countries are zone 13. Is it a pronounced dry period that plays into it? Ghana is a mango producing country, its located 8 degrees north of equator. Let that sink in :o!

Sure, a number of varieties adapted to the tropics can achieve significant bloom with prolonged drought. That of course rarely happens here though when comparing south Florida average monthly rainfall level And that of many tropical areas where mangos flower regularly.

It also does not apply to numerous subtropical varieties (many mangos of Indian and Pakistani descent). Take a Chaunsa mango to the Philippines and it probably never flowers.

It would be incorrect to say all mangos can only flower off cold stimulus, and it would be equally incorrect to claim all mangos can flower off of drought stress.

And cold stimulus is definitely the strongest stimulus for influencing bloom among mangos in general, more so than drought stress, and most important to achieving widespread, regular bloom on mango in Florida.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: sunny on April 19, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
Very good information, now i know why we don't have mango's in Thailand where it's ALWAYS hot, vely hot...also at night...and why we have mango's like chokanan and sam rue do which blooms many times a year.

Thanks for clearing it all up.

I have to say though, i checked about 100 mangotree's here yesterday and they don't have fruit, big tree's. This is a bad mango year for us.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: 850FL on April 19, 2020, 10:32:34 PM
So what do cold weather and drought conditions have in common that affect mango growth? My theory is they both temporarily stunt the growth for a period of time (dormancy-like behavior?) so that vegetative growth can not occur as it would in normal conditions..and after those rougher conditions pass, the mango resumes growth and throws out some panicles. I’m sure if you were to put a mango in a dark room or very dark shade for a month or two, granted it doesn’t die in the process, then put it under normal light it might have the same effect. But I don’t know for sure that’s just my theory
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: pineislander on April 20, 2020, 06:49:49 AM
Soil and foliar chemicals in gaseous and liquid form, even smoke can also induce and control bloom, perhaps certain varieties more than others. Age of stem and leaf plays a part. Google mango bloom stimulus initiation and you can see research around the world on this.
Like:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-04202007000400007 (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-04202007000400007)
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Cookie Monster on April 20, 2020, 02:55:55 PM
Regarding the linked article: KNO3 is not an effective flowering stimulant in Florida. It only works at certain latitudes. Paclobutrazol has been effective here, but it was shown to have some really nasty long lasting issues (eg, planting  a mango tree in a location where a tree was previously treated with paclobutrazol will stunt the new tree as well).

From https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_54-60.pdf (https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_54-60.pdf)

"Trees growing the area of Vera Cruz begin to respond later in the year but lose the ability to altogether in areas north of 23 latitude. I have been told that even concentrations sufficiently high to cause substantial leaf burn (10 percent more) are apparently not effective. Trees in both Sinaloa (25 latitude, dry climate) Homestead, Florida (25 latitude, dry climate) do not respond."

And from https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_61-66.pdf (https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/HITAHR_04-06-93_61-66.pdf)

"Recent studies in Florida suggest that low temperature is the environmental factor with the greatest influence on flower induction (Nunez-Elisa and Davenport 1992). It was concluded that water stress was not responsible for flower induction, but could enhance the response to cool temperatures. Similar conclusions have also been obtained by workers in Australia (Whiley 1992). "

Soil and foliar chemicals in gaseous and liquid form, even smoke can also induce and control bloom, perhaps certain varieties more than others. Age of stem and leaf plays a part. Google mango bloom stimulus initiation and you can see research around the world on this.
Like:
[url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-04202007000400007[/url] ([url]http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-04202007000400007[/url])
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Orkine on April 20, 2020, 06:17:22 PM
I recall reading about smoke, somewhere.  Something to do with outdoor cooking and observation of nearby mango trees flowering.

My only suggestion is dont burn down your orchard or get a fire code violation if you want to try this method.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: Cookie Monster on April 21, 2020, 10:22:03 AM
I have a theory as to why those bloomed. We had pretty severe drought conditions in March and early April. Then during the first few days of April, the temps dropped a good 15 degrees. I think the drought set some of the trees up to be a bit more sensitive to the temp drop, so when it happened, they pushed blooms.

Still pretty amazing nonetheless.
Title: Re: Mango trees disprove Myth: cold temperature needed for bloom response.
Post by: 850FL on April 21, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
I have a theory as to why those bloomed. We had pretty severe drought conditions in March and early April. Then during the first few days of April, the temps dropped a good 15 degrees. I think the drought set some of the trees up to be a bit more sensitive to the temp drop, so when it happened, they pushed blooms.

Still pretty amazing nonetheless.

I second that! Even up here in north Fl we had the same conditions.. drought in March and unusual cool temps all through April. Most of the potted mangos I see are in bloom, even Valencia pride (a non-‘dwarf’?)