Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade => Topic started by: spaugh on June 19, 2020, 03:20:09 PM

Title: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on June 19, 2020, 03:20:09 PM
How do commercial groves do it?  Pay someone to do it all day?  I wanted to plant more trees but with just 8 or 10 big trees now its consuming a lot of time doing this each evening. 

Whoops, this wasnt meant for the sale section. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Bush2Beach on June 19, 2020, 07:03:07 PM
There is a blow gun that distributes pollen throughout the orchard, check on one of the brokaw websites maybe, its been awhile.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: brian on June 20, 2020, 11:56:35 AM
I saw an interesting article yesterday about pollinating flowers using polling infused bubbles:

"Highlights

        Developed soap bubbles exhibit various biological and physicochemical properties
        The soap bubbles allow effective flower pollination
        A flying robot equipped with a bubble maker can be used for autonomous pollination
"
https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(20)30373-4 (https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(20)30373-4)
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: VP on June 20, 2020, 04:39:45 PM
Bees and umbrella shape branches with moisture
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: pinkturtle on June 20, 2020, 04:50:47 PM
Mist the tree in the morning and evening. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on June 20, 2020, 05:15:42 PM
I dont think bees can pollinate cherimoyas plus they arent attracted to the flowers. 

What does misting it do?  These trees are out in an orchard, theres no water handy other than the sprinker under them. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: barath on June 20, 2020, 06:45:14 PM
Edgar Valdevia told me that he leaves rotting white sapotes under his cherimoya trees, and that for some reason the bugs that are attracted also will pollinate his cherimoyas.  No idea which bugs, and I've never tried it, but he probably knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on June 20, 2020, 06:56:03 PM
Edgar Valdevia told me that he leaves rotting white sapotes under his cherimoya trees, and that for some reason the bugs that are attracted also will pollinate his cherimoyas.  No idea which bugs, and I've never tried it, but he probably knows what he's doing.

Interesting.  Now I just need some white sapote fruit.  Maybe next year Ill get some. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Iceman716238 on June 20, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
If you stare at the flower buds at precisely 2:43am, the male parts come out to greet the female parts and help with pollination.  It works 100% of the time, 30% of the time. I've also heard from senior Edgar that misting twice a days enduces fertile flowers.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: K-Rimes on June 20, 2020, 10:49:01 PM
Edgar Valdevia told me that he leaves rotting white sapotes under his cherimoya trees, and that for some reason the bugs that are attracted also will pollinate his cherimoyas.  No idea which bugs, and I've never tried it, but he probably knows what he's doing.

Another guy recommended banana peels. Must be some fruit fly pollination action or something.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: SeaWalnut on June 20, 2020, 10:57:51 PM
I saw an interesting article yesterday about pollinating flowers using polling infused bubbles:

"Highlights

        Developed soap bubbles exhibit various biological and physicochemical properties
        The soap bubbles allow effective flower pollination
        A flying robot equipped with a bubble maker can be used for autonomous pollination
"
https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(20)30373-4 (https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(20)30373-4)
Giorgiosgr posted that article here.
Good idea to use soap bubbles that have pollen in them but for cherimoya i dont think this will work because the flowers are females right after they opened and the petals are not fully opened ( like in the male stage) .
The bubbles will break out on the female flowers petals without polinating them.
And when the cherimoya flowers are fully opened they are allready male and its too late to try and polinate them.
For otther coultures thogh ,i think its a good idea to use soap bubbles mixed with pollen for pollination.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVThxFXc/edn-94-figure-2-original.png)
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on June 20, 2020, 11:10:16 PM
The trees have a great fruit set now.  I probably did it 5 different days over the last few weeks.  Looks like will be a bumper crop. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Oolie on June 20, 2020, 11:30:23 PM
Edgar Valdevia told me that he leaves rotting white sapotes under his cherimoya trees, and that for some reason the bugs that are attracted also will pollinate his cherimoyas.  No idea which bugs, and I've never tried it, but he probably knows what he's doing.

Rove beetles, some of which are fruit souring beetles.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23673947?seq=1 (https://www.jstor.org/stable/23673947?seq=1)
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig166 (https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig166)
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on June 21, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
My trees already have the little beetles.  Thry are black and about the size of an ant.  Not sure how effective they really are.  Im not about to skip pollinating by hand to find out. 

I found a small tool that blows the pollen in the flowers but you still have to walk around and do them 1 at a time.  It would be slightly faster than dipping a paint brush each time. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on June 21, 2020, 12:20:36 PM
I have tried the rotten fruit thing with the fruit below the cherimoya trees.  Lots of fruit flies, but they were not interested in the flowers.  Still using the paint brush, collecting pollen in the mornings and pollinating in the evenings.  Problem with incomplete pollination (by insect or human) is a lopsided weird shaped fruit instead of the well shaped one.  Each carpel needs to be pollinated to develop.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: bryan on June 27, 2020, 01:58:57 PM
My understanding is any compost in the close vicinity attracts nitidulid beetles which are the ones to pollinate sugar apple and cherimoya. I have them on my buds, but do paint brush pollinate as well not to miss out on great fruit.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: NewGen on June 28, 2020, 12:07:14 AM
 If I collect pollen in the morning, how long do they last? Must they be used in the evening  of the same day?
Thanks,
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: enomi on June 28, 2020, 09:41:28 AM
If I collect pollen in the morning, how long do they last? Must they be used in the evening  of the same day?
Thanks,

you can store in airtight container in fridge for up to 24 hours.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on June 28, 2020, 11:15:36 AM
Might be our benign climate, but I collect pollen (actually stamens and anthers) in the morning or even as I am pollinating female flowers if some males are open.  I use a pill bottle and cap it and put in the shade of a tree for the next day.  I keep adding pollen (anthers) daily as I use it up.  I pull off one petal (usually there are 3) so I can get the brush to cover the entire sticky stigma with pollen.  Later it is apparent which flowers are pollinated and the flower is ready to collect the anthers/pollen from the male flower stage.  I don't refrigerate, but we are in a cooler climate.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: Seanny on June 28, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
The numbers are some thing like these:
85% pollens are good after 12 hours.
65% after 24
35% after 48

Pollens go bad from high humidity not temperature.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: behlgarden on June 30, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
I pollinate twice sometimes 3 times a day. in summer, if you pollinate a flower at 4 PM, by sunset most female turn to male (the ones you pollinated at 4 PM), then I collect that polled for morning hit. I collect more pollen in morning at 7-10 AM, and pollinate what I can, and container goes back to fridge. there are times I have no pollen but tonnes of female flowers and other times I have pollen but no female flowers. it happens if weather is overcast.

Also, do not collect pollen from male flower if flower seems wilted. that pollen is probably 50% effective.
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: CA Hockey on July 02, 2020, 02:15:12 AM
Brad, I've read that a small black beetle that likes compost and rotting fruit is an excellent pollinator for annonas, hence the stories of leaving rotting fruit under the trees. Reportedly, naturally pollinated fruits are more likely to be partially pollinated and will have curved shapes instead of being fully symmetric (completely pollinated).

Ive started to toss fruit underneath. Also it seems that my atemoyas set fruit more readily. South coast research station I was told doesn't do anything special for the Grove
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: spaugh on July 02, 2020, 01:44:44 PM
My trees are over pollinated now.  They are going to have to be thinned now making even more work.  Im going to tag 10 or so flowers on each tree and check back and see if any are self pollinating.  It seems like thry may be. 
Title: Re: Pollinating Cherimoyas
Post by: K-Rimes on July 04, 2020, 07:11:12 PM
My trees are over pollinated now.  They are going to have to be thinned now making even more work.  Im going to tag 10 or so flowers on each tree and check back and see if any are self pollinating.  It seems like thry may be.

Honestly Im getting good fruit set with no pollinating this year... maybe dont have to worry as much as I thought.