Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 01:34:02 AM

Title: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 01:34:02 AM
Here is a photo of a fruit i grew from seeds originally from Jim West in Ecuador. He sent them to me as Chrysophyllum auratum, but on a later visit to my place told me he wasn't sure if that was correct latin name. It seems it doesn't match description in the Pennington sapotaceae monograph (Flora Neotropica), but then again none of the other species match either. So left this species name for now. Local name of this species in Venezuela is caimito dulce, sweet starapple. And it is indeed very sweet. The fruits are a bit smaller than starapple. The fully ripe color is light pink, but can be eaten when greenish yellow. The fruits only contain one seed each. The good thing is that the tree produces fruits much earlier than starapple and the season is a lot longer. The tree seems slower growing than starapple though. The tree has an unusual strong musky smell that it radiates, even without brushing up against it. No smell in the fruit. The leaves don't have the velvety bronze color on underside like starapple and are more rounded on tips than starapple. I have a very few seeds if anyone is interested.
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/ChrysophyllumAuratumCrossectionScaled.jpg)
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Green Thumb on February 23, 2012, 03:23:51 AM
Dibs on a few seeds please, I will send you a PM

Thank you so much for the chance to grow these.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: jabomano on February 23, 2012, 04:36:34 AM
Oscar

I've sent you an email.

Ray
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Felipe on February 23, 2012, 10:13:40 AM
Oscar, do you know if it can be grafted on caimito?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Tim on February 23, 2012, 10:46:41 AM
I wonder if this is the same as what's known in Vietnam as V Sữa Bơ Hồng (http://www.sggp.org.vn/nongnghiepkt/2010/10/239860/), I don't know how to translate that cultivar name.  Maybe NEWGEN or DNT can have a crack at it.  Google translate is terribly inaccurate for Vietnamese-English.

something completely unrelated, Starapple bonsai, from this link here (http://news.socbay.com/cay_vu_sua_80_tuoi_doat_giai_vang_hoi_hoa_xuan-626182619-167772160.html)  ;D

(http://nld.vcmedia.vn/Images/Uploaded/Share/2010/02/13/tao-dan---vu-sua.jpg)
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 23, 2012, 02:34:35 PM
Oscar, do you know if it can be grafted on caimito?

It can
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
Oscar, do you know if it can be grafted on caimito?

Don't know for sure as i've never tried it, but would guess that it can. I've heard that Chrysophylum species are very easy to inter graft. I would be willing to send scions if anyone want to try it?
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 04:42:09 PM
I wonder if this is the same as what's known in Vietnam as V Sữa Bơ Hồng ([url]http://www.sggp.org.vn/nongnghiepkt/2010/10/239860/[/url]), I don't know how to translate that cultivar name.  Maybe NEWGEN or DNT can have a crack at it.  Google translate is terribly inaccurate for Vietnamese-English.

something completely unrelated, Starapple bonsai, from this link here ([url]http://news.socbay.com/cay_vu_sua_80_tuoi_doat_giai_vang_hoi_hoa_xuan-626182619-167772160.html[/url])  ;D

([url]http://nld.vcmedia.vn/Images/Uploaded/Share/2010/02/13/tao-dan---vu-sua.jpg[/url])


Your photo looks like green starapple. Mine is a different species. Green starapple does not turn pink when fully ripe and has several seeds inside. Also starapple has long pointed leaves, photo on mine shows small rounded leaves.
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 04:47:29 PM
Just realized that your photo is of the bonsai. Anyway this is not a different cultivar of starapple. It is a different species: different leaves, different flowers, different shaped tree.
Never have seen a starapple bonsai here. We have a large japanese population in Hawaii and i go to their bonsai shows. Most common fruit bonsais here are jaboticaba and surinam cherry.
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 23, 2012, 05:17:28 PM
Just realized that your photo is of the bonsai. Anyway this is not a different cultivar of starapple. It is a different species: different leaves, different flowers, different shaped tree.
Never have seen a starapple bonsai here. We have a large japanese population in Hawaii and i go to their bonsai shows. Most common fruit bonsais here are jaboticaba and surinam cherry.
Oscar

Have you ever seen a jaboticaba bonsai hold fruits?

Thanks!
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 05:36:50 PM
Just realized that your photo is of the bonsai. Anyway this is not a different cultivar of starapple. It is a different species: different leaves, different flowers, different shaped tree.
Never have seen a starapple bonsai here. We have a large japanese population in Hawaii and i go to their bonsai shows. Most common fruit bonsais here are jaboticaba and surinam cherry.
Oscar

Have you ever seen a jaboticaba bonsai hold fruits?

Thanks!

No. The ones i saw were with no fruits or flowers. But that could just be because was wrong time of year. I think the plants i saw had wide enough caliper to hold fruits.
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 23, 2012, 06:49:59 PM


I find that all bonsai specimens of M. jaboticaba (sabara, most typical variety cultivated here), they don't flower or hold fruit.

The reason is lack of water, due to not enough root mass, and substrate to draw moisture from...bonsai growers don't realize, but this tree could be sat in a deep dish, like an iris, and it would evoke the jaboticaba gods to induce a flowering cycle (i believe).

Have seen the hybrid Red, fruit as a bonsai, and I assume this plant could be a high dollar item, and a welcome adornment to any office desk.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 23, 2012, 07:18:18 PM


I find that all bonsai specimens of M. jaboticaba (sabara, most typical variety cultivated here), they don't flower or hold fruit.

The reason is lack of water, due to not enough root mass, and substrate to draw moisture from...bonsai growers don't realize, but this tree could be sat in a deep dish, like an iris, and it would evoke the jaboticaba gods to induce a flowering cycle (i believe).

Have seen the hybrid Red, fruit as a bonsai, and I assume this plant could be a high dollar item, and a welcome adornment to any office desk.


I'll ask next time they have a bonsai show. I know they definitely do get the jaboticaba bonsais to flower, but don't know if they hold fruits or not. Thought you might like this photo:
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/JaboticabaBonsai.jpg)
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 24, 2012, 09:21:26 PM
I wonder if this is the same as what's known in Vietnam as V Sữa Bơ Hồng, I don't know how to translate that cultivar name.  Maybe NEWGEN or DNT can have a crack at it.  Google translate is terribly inaccurate for Vietnamese-English.
butter pink breast milk....hahaha yup that's it.

Is the pink referring to the juice color or to the exterior?
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 24, 2012, 10:15:41 PM
Ok thanks DNT. Do you have any photo available?
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on February 24, 2012, 11:06:11 PM
OK thanks, i looked it up. Very nice looking. Same color as mine, but you can see in this photo that the leaves are regular star apple leaves:
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&rlz=1C1CHHJ_enUS450US450&biw=1024&bih=634&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=HgKIL9kH_u2wxM:&imgrefurl=http://sivale.vn/cho-nong-nghiep/114376-vu-sua-bo-hong-trai-cay-dac-san-xuat-kha-u.html&docid=TkEfOcnEq1My7M&itg=1&imgurl=http://d.f4.photo.zdn.vn/upload/original/2011/02/17/11/42/12979177461353697763_574_574.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=Ql1IT7GhKanhiALHsKDcDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=298&vpy=329&dur=2582&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=96&ty=212&sig=111556920573247311646&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=176&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0 (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&rlz=1C1CHHJ_enUS450US450&biw=1024&bih=634&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=HgKIL9kH_u2wxM:&imgrefurl=http://sivale.vn/cho-nong-nghiep/114376-vu-sua-bo-hong-trai-cay-dac-san-xuat-kha-u.html&docid=TkEfOcnEq1My7M&itg=1&imgurl=http://d.f4.photo.zdn.vn/upload/original/2011/02/17/11/42/12979177461353697763_574_574.jpg&w=400&h=300&ei=Ql1IT7GhKanhiALHsKDcDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=298&vpy=329&dur=2582&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=96&ty=212&sig=111556920573247311646&page=1&tbnh=140&tbnw=176&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0)
Very different from plant i have.
Oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: murahilin on May 02, 2012, 12:42:16 PM
Oscar,
Does the fruit taste similar to the star apple or is it much different? The texture in the picture you posted also looks more firm and not as soft as the regular star apple. Is that correct?

I had someone graft the budwood you sent onto regular star apple. I hope they take. Have you or anyone else tried grafting C. auratum onto the C. cainito?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 02, 2012, 03:53:50 PM
I have seen a variety of starapples that are green or pink or beige that have been grown from seed.Copper,griml,pink,green,giant green and rose staraplles are names I have heard attributed to them and the fruit photo looks like a copper.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 02, 2012, 05:15:14 PM
Oscar,
Does the fruit taste similar to the star apple or is it much different? The texture in the picture you posted also looks more firm and not as soft as the regular star apple. Is that correct?

I had someone graft the budwood you sent onto regular star apple. I hope they take. Have you or anyone else tried grafting C. auratum onto the C. cainito?

Yes it tastes similar, taste i find a bit sweeter than regular starapple. Texture is about the same. Have not tried grafting it onto anything. Doubt anybody else has tried it. Doubt anyone else has it or knows even what it is. We're talking about a brand new introduction.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 02, 2012, 05:18:40 PM
I have seen a variety of starapples that are green or pink or beige that have been grown from seed.Copper,griml,pink,green,giant green and rose staraplles are names I have heard attributed to them and the fruit photo looks like a copper.

Mike this is not a starapple, this is a different species of Chrysophyllum (auratum): leaves are different, more rounded in shape and no bronze underside. Also shape of  tree is different and seems smaller. Yes there are different colored starapples, but all of them have bronze underside on the leaves, no matter what color the fruit is. BTW, there are very many different species of Chrysophyllum and many are quite good to eat.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on May 02, 2012, 05:25:25 PM
We have lots of the ones without the gold/brown/bronze underside to the leaf. They are still called starapples as they are similar in most ways, but are smaller and pinkish green usually, very nice milky flavour. a real favorite of bats. Most people here just call them pink star apple. May not be the same as the one you have, but certainly no color on the leaf underside. Sometimes leaves are pointed.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 02, 2012, 06:02:45 PM
We have lots of the ones without the gold/brown/bronze underside to the leaf. They are still called starapples as they are similar in most ways, but are smaller and pinkish green usually, very nice milky flavour. a real favorite of bats. Most people here just call them pink star apple. May not be the same as the one you have, but certainly no color on the leaf underside. Sometimes leaves are pointed.

Ok, you might call them all starapple, but if they don't have bronze underside on the leaves they are a different species than starapple (cainito). The leaves on this auratum are rounded at the tips and wider than cainito leaves. Also the fruits all have only one seed inside. Usually cainito has 4-8 seeds inside.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 03, 2012, 02:37:07 AM
Fruitlovers is absolutely correct and I would not have called it starapple if I had looked at the foliage in the photo.I have no name for it.Some starapples seem to have less colour than others beneath the leaf but not like that.2 or 3 more seeds and the fruit would have looked almost the same as the copper starapple I spoke of earlier.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 03, 2012, 02:48:53 AM
Fruitlovers is absolutely correct and I would not have called it starapple if I had looked at the foliage in the photo.I have no name for it.Some starapples seem to have less colour than others beneath the leaf but not like that.2 or 3 more seeds and the fruit would have looked almost the same as the copper starapple I spoke of earlier.

This species i have is unique also in that the whole tree emits a kind of strong smell, don't know how to describe it except mildly skunky. On the positive side it seems to always be flowering and fruiting. I think that unlike starapple this species might be everbearing. Starapple here only fruits in the spring: March-May.
BTW Mike, if you ever find out what other species of Chrysophyllum you have there in Australia i'd be interested to know. Thanks.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 03, 2012, 04:07:57 AM
Fruitlovers I am pretty sure there is only starapples here and no congenors with good fruit although I have only had fruitof the copper one.There must be a good deal of phenotypic plasticity and well as a broad genetic base.The giant purple partial seedless one at the kamerunga resaerch station was brought over by horticultural scientists in the 70's.It was much like a very large flattened haitian with only the occasional seen.I don't know its source or if any prgeny survives.   
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 03, 2012, 04:51:14 AM
Fruitlovers I am pretty sure there is only starapples here and no congenors with good fruit although I have only had fruitof the copper one.There must be a good deal of phenotypic plasticity and well as a broad genetic base.The giant purple partial seedless one at the kamerunga resaerch station was brought over by horticultural scientists in the 70's.It was much like a very large flattened haitian with only the occasional seen.I don't know its source or if any prgeny survives.

OK. I thought you said in a previous post that you had starpple like fruits that have leaves with no copper colored underside?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 03, 2012, 05:11:03 AM
Fruitlovers you are getting me and BMc mixed up he is about 1100 miles down the road from me in the subtropics.I am the one who said I would not have a name for those without any bronzy colour under the leaves because I don't know that fruit.I also said there is some variation in the depth of this bronzy colour on the underside of the leaves.By here I really mean 15 to 19 latitude on the east coast.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 03, 2012, 06:37:02 AM
Fruitlovers you are getting me and BMc mixed up he is about 1100 miles down the road from me in the subtropics.I am the one who said I would not have a name for those without any bronzy colour under the leaves because I don't know that fruit.I also said there is some variation in the depth of this bronzy colour on the underside of the leaves.By here I really mean 15 to 19 latitude on the east coast.

OK Mike thanks for pointing out my confusion. BMc do you have any photos of the pink starapple like fruit with no bronze underside on leaves that you have there?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on May 03, 2012, 06:44:41 AM
Fruitlovers you are getting me and BMc mixed up he is about 1100 miles down the road from me in the subtropics.I am the one who said I would not have a name for those without any bronzy colour under the leaves because I don't know that fruit.I also said there is some variation in the depth of this bronzy colour on the underside of the leaves.By here I really mean 15 to 19 latitude on the east coast.

1100 miles? i thought it was a mere 1000 kms?  ;D
I'll try to take some pictures this weekend. I only have seedlings, a few feet tall.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 03, 2012, 06:50:33 AM
A feather over 1800km between Our places of residence.Queensland is a big state and it is only another 900km or so from Cairns to the northernmost part of the state.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on May 03, 2012, 06:59:24 AM
Ah, so it is.  :-[ I get mixed up in my head. Sydney is 1000k south, Mackay is 1000k north. Thats generally as far as I drive and I always have 1000km stuck in my head. Flying makes it feel much closer!
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on May 03, 2012, 07:03:41 AM
I just googled it, road distance from Brisbane to Cairns is 1700 kms. Still a pretty long way! Claimed to be a 4 day drive?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on May 03, 2012, 07:11:26 AM
Last time I drove it, it was over 1800km but as the crow flies may be less.When I was 18 and the road was more windy and longer a friend and I did it in less than a day.It is not possible any more.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on January 28, 2013, 04:07:53 AM
here is a pic of the pink starapple

(http://s1.postimage.org/aadg2rkcb/IMG_4120.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/aadg2rkcb/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/s1p2h7zqz/IMG_4121.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s1p2h7zqz/)

its not as healthy as it should be as it has been in a pot for too long and has just gone into ground and then gets hit with a few days of 100kph wind gusts. Fruits are small, light pink and green, few seeds and taste like condensed milk crossed with normal star apple. They have a bit of latex, though not so much you'd complain because the flavour makes it worthwhile.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on January 28, 2013, 04:22:20 AM
BMc is that the same as what Peter S has that are supposed to be from the phillipines?He brought some fruit to me a year ago and they were really good and quite unlike other starapples.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: davidgarcia899 on January 28, 2013, 04:32:21 PM
Hey Oscar let me know when you have these available again
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on January 28, 2013, 05:06:20 PM
so what exactly is the stink parapple?

is there a botanical name or varietal name?

I wonder if it's more cold tolerant than the common ones?


Edit: Chrysophyllum auratum is the name on Oscar's initial post, is there another one?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on January 28, 2013, 05:13:58 PM
so what exactly is the stink parapple?

is there a botanical name or varietal name?

I wonder if it's more cold tolerant than the common ones?


Edit: Chrysophyllum auratum is the name on Oscar's initial post, is there another one?

Hi Adam, there's a whole ton of species in Chrysophyllum genus. Obviously they are not starapples, but because they look and taste very similar to starapple that is what they are all getting called. You can see latest photo is not C. cainitio because it doesn't have bronze underside on leaves that all cainitos have.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on January 28, 2013, 05:17:12 PM
pulp looks more firm? am I mistaken?

thanks for the good info per usual Oscar.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on January 28, 2013, 05:17:21 PM
Looking at Oscar's initial pix it is the same type I have seen here before.It was called the sink tarpapple here as well or was that the rink aspapple.It looks pretty close to the real starapple considering all the variation in that species.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on January 28, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
Trees I have seen and heard of have been much smaller than normal star apples. Is this your experience too Oscar?
A grower here has one at the back of his house that looks like a regular small sized tree, whereas his Haitian out the front yard is a monster.
Flesh is kind of 'milky' from memory. Maybe a bit firmer than some almost jelly like starapples, but not by that much.
I'm sure its the same as Peter S's trees. He has the full set and is incahoots with others that have it.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: murahilin on January 28, 2013, 06:24:07 PM
here is a pic of the pink starapple

its not as healthy as it should be as it has been in a pot for too long and has just gone into ground and then gets hit with a few days of 100kph wind gusts. Fruits are small, light pink and green, few seeds and taste like condensed milk crossed with normal star apple. They have a bit of latex, though not so much you'd complain because the flavour makes it worthwhile.

Your description makes it sound much better than the regular star apple. Is your tree grafted or a seedling?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on January 28, 2013, 06:28:48 PM
Trees I have seen and heard of have been much smaller than normal star apples. Is this your experience too Oscar?
A grower here has one at the back of his house that looks like a regular small sized tree, whereas his Haitian out the front yard is a monster.
Flesh is kind of 'milky' from memory. Maybe a bit firmer than some almost jelly like starapples, but not by that much.
I'm sure its the same as Peter S's trees. He has the full set and is incahoots with others that have it.

Not sure if the tree will be smaller when full grown. But it does seem a lot slower growing than regular starapple. On the plus side the pink fruited one is flowering and fruiting almost all year long, whereas regular starapple here has a distinct season (spring). The fruit of the pink is smaller but sweeter, and the fruits usually only have one seed inside each fruit. The most unusual thing about this species is that the tree gives off a strong smell, kind of skunky, every time you get anywhere close to it.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on January 30, 2013, 12:19:45 AM
what about the stopper car-apple?

anyone have details about that one?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 14, 2013, 01:51:12 AM
I have a few seeds of this fruit available now for sale. The tree produced well this year. You can look at the beginning of this thread for a photo and description. The seeds are 5 for $7.50 plus $2.50 shipping anywhere in USA. If you're outside USA please inquire.  Note that i don't have these listed on my website as i only have a very few. So if you want them email me and i'll set up payment for you. Thanks,
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Finca La Isla on June 14, 2013, 03:52:47 PM
Does the fruit have any latex?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 14, 2013, 10:41:35 PM
Does the fruit have any latex?

I think all the pouteria genus has latex. If you eat them ripe the amount of latex is not noticeable.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: LEOOEL on June 15, 2013, 01:00:58 AM
Very sweet and just one seed, amazing, never knew such a thing existed. Thanks for the great pics. and info. Good job Oscar.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 16, 2013, 05:18:59 AM
Even the seeds of this species look different than starapple if you look closely. The shape is different and size a bit bigger. C. auratum is on left and C. cainito (starapple) is on right:
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/ChrysophyllumAuratumAndCainitoSeedsScaled.jpg)
BTW i mailed all the seeds requested by everyone, except for Mark, today. Mark's seeds will go out on Tuesday.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on June 16, 2013, 05:32:46 AM

(http://s9.postimg.cc/wsip7tuvv/DSCF5090.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/wsip7tuvv/)
Oscar you have me curious about some of the odd 'starapples' I have seen around. The one in this picture had a little color beneath the leaves and the fruit had 2 or 3 seeds from memory.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 16, 2013, 05:41:45 AM
Mike, that starapple looks a lot bigger than the pink ones i have. I'm guessing from your description of the leaf that your fruit is regular C. cainito. The C. auratum i have has no bronze coloring on underside and the leaves are wider and rounder than those of C. cainito. I'll try to do a leaf comparison shot. Also it's looking like the C. auratum tree will be a lot smaller tree than the starapple. Every single fruit i've opened of auratum so far has only one seed inside.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on June 16, 2013, 06:05:51 AM
Oscar yes I am sure you are correct and I have no pictures of smaller ones or those trees with green under the leaves. C.auratum probably is not here but there is something else that is quite different from the normal starapples.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: ofdsurfer on June 16, 2013, 02:30:05 PM
Oscar you have mail.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 22, 2013, 03:52:27 AM
Here is a comparison photo of leaves and fruits of C. auratum next to my giant purple starapple. As you can see size, shape, and especially underside color of leaves is very different:
(http://fruitlovers.com/Gallery1/ChrysophyllumAuratumAndCainitoFruitAndLeafComparison copy.jpg)
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Raulglezruiz on June 22, 2013, 10:23:08 AM
Oscar put me for some seeds please!
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: emegar on June 22, 2013, 11:46:29 AM
Oscar,

Thought you might be interested in this: http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full (http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full)

You may have already seen this article, but it seems to support the conclusion that what you have is C.argenteum ssp. auratum, a subspecies apparently found in Ecuador, where Jim West lives.

This subspecies of C. argenteum is described as follows: "the fruits are single-seeded, and the abaxial leaf surface [is] ... sericeous with golden hairs (subsp. auratum)"
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 22, 2013, 06:14:23 PM
Oscar,

Thought you might be interested in this: [url]http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full[/url] ([url]http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full[/url])

You may have already seen this article, but it seems to support the conclusion that what you have is C.argenteum ssp. auratum, a subspecies apparently found in Ecuador, where Jim West lives.

This subspecies of C. argenteum is described as follows: "the fruits are single-seeded, and the abaxial leaf surface [is] ... sericeous with golden hairs (subsp. auratum)"


Thanks, i hadn't seen that. Do have the Pennington monograph on Sapotaceae and looked it up there. Doesn't fit 100% the description there given of auratum, but close enough that it's probably just a variation of auratum. Yes collected in Ecuador, so that part fits. West told me in personal conversation he's not certain it is auratum, but we can't figure out what else it would be.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on June 22, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
Oscar put me for some seeds please!

How many do you want?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: mikesid on September 14, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
Oscar, do you know germination time on these? I planted ten seeds back in late June...all rotted except one which has just remained in this little, green, radicle/cotyledon stage...It's in partial sun...


(http://s7.postimg.cc/s54ucedlj/IMG_2247.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s54ucedlj/)
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: marklee on September 14, 2013, 01:08:19 PM
I received 5 seeds and only one sprouted, the other 4 rotted. Here is a photo of the winner so far. Not sure if I should transplant since the tap root is so long, any ideas? not sure how fragile this plant is.
(http://s10.postimg.cc/71zevkqit/pink.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/71zevkqit/)

(http://s10.postimg.cc/x1m5miclh/pink2.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/x1m5miclh/)
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: nullzero on September 14, 2013, 01:13:40 PM
I don't think I had any successful ones sprout out  :'(. All rotted here I believe.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitnursery on September 14, 2013, 09:28:01 PM
Oscar,

Can you pm price of seeds and deliver charge.

Regards,

Berns
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: marklee on September 14, 2013, 11:07:22 PM
I received 5 seeds and only one sprouted, the other 4 rotted. Here is a photo of the winner so far. Not sure if I should transplant since the tap root is so long, any ideas? not sure how fragile this plant is. Actualy had 2 make it, one I gave to Rtreid.
([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/71zevkqit/pink.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/71zevkqit/[/url])

([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/x1m5miclh/pink2.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/x1m5miclh/[/url])
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: eduardo_98 on September 14, 2013, 11:12:29 PM
fruitlovers, do you have anymore seeds of this star fruit. i would really like some.
thanks
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on September 15, 2013, 03:22:52 AM
fruitlovers, do you have anymore seeds of this star fruit. i would really like some.
thanks

I have a few from same batch i sent to you guys, and they are all sprouting inside the zip lock bag with vermiculite. If you want some sprouted seeds Eduardo can send you those.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Felipe on September 15, 2013, 06:47:44 AM
Oscar, do you think germinated seeds would have good chances to survive? I don't have good experiences with germinated seeds...
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: eduardo_98 on September 15, 2013, 07:47:09 AM
sent you a pm oscar
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 16, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
After some digging it appears that a really good line of C.auratum is here in Australia.It has fruit a little larger than the one in the picture from Oscar and has only one seed per fruit. The variety goes by the name Juicy pearl.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on September 16, 2013, 05:38:50 PM
After some digging it appears that a really good line of C.auratum is here in Australia.It has fruit a little larger than the one in the picture from Oscar and has only one seed per fruit. The variety goes by the name Juicy pearl.

Photos please. Size is dependent on quantity of fert. This tree of mine has been getting little fert, mostly on automatic pilot, ie lots of neglect.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 16, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
Oscar I will do my best to get pix.As you know there are 5 subspecies of C.auratum and these are quite variable with 3 subspecies having fruit with a single seed and the other 2 having more than one seed.They are very closely related to common starapples.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 16, 2013, 05:58:02 PM
http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full (http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full)

When you google this species there seems to be a bit of diversity in the fruit.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on September 16, 2013, 06:15:39 PM
Oscar I will do my best to get pix.As you know there are 5 subspecies of C.auratum and these are quite variable with 3 subspecies having fruit with a single seed and the other 2 having more than one seed.They are very closely related to common starapples.

I read an online scientific paper stating that C. auratum is probably wild ancestor of common starapple. Would be great if you can get photos of some of the different subspecies. These are all mentioned in the Sapotaceae monograph of Pennington.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: BMc on September 16, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
I'll try to post pics of the fruit from ones here as well. I think they may be seedlings of the ones in NQ Mike.
Mine is super slow growing! Looking more like a multi stemmed shrub at the moment.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 17, 2013, 03:06:16 AM
The Petersen paper is one I posted below. Wild star apples and domestic ones seem to be a bit different and I am not sure if the paper indicates domestic ones have some C.auratum blood (sap).From what I understand there is only rainforest pearl here for sure and Oscar's is one of the other 4 subspecies. The other varieties I mentioned are just improved green or gold star apples.
A difference between the species mentioned in the Peterson paper is that wild star apples are a rainforest to edge canopy tree and C.auratum is smaller not reaching the canopy even when in rainforest.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on September 17, 2013, 04:43:04 AM
The Petersen paper is one I posted below. Wild star apples and domestic ones seem to be a bit different and I am not sure if the paper indicates domestic ones have some C.auratum blood (sap).From what I understand there is only rainforest pearl here for sure and Oscar's is one of the other 4 subspecies. The other varieties I mentioned are just improved green or gold star apples.
A difference between the species mentioned in the Peterson paper is that wild star apples are a rainforest to edge canopy tree and C.auratum is smaller not reaching the canopy even when in rainforest.

Paper posted below where?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 17, 2013, 04:55:23 AM
http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full (http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full)

Oscar here it is again. Look below at the post prior to you saying "I read an online scientific paper". Maybe some posts don't show up for some observers.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on September 17, 2013, 05:13:12 AM
[url]http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full[/url] ([url]http://www.amjbot.org/content/99/3/585.full[/url])

Oscar here it is again. Look below at the post prior to you saying "I read an online scientific paper". Maybe some posts don't show up for some observers.


Thanks Mike. That was the paper i was recalling. Here is main part:
Conclusions: Chrysophyllum cainito is most closely related to a clade containing Central and South American C. argenteum, including subsp. panamense. We hypothesize that caimito is native to southern Mesoamerica and was domesticated from multiple wild populations in Panama. Subsequent migration into northern Mesoamerica and the Antilles was mediated by human cultivation.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Mike T on September 17, 2013, 05:36:57 AM
That is a key part of the article if the origin of star apples is the question being investigated .Your one I presume is C.argenteum subs, auratum and the pearl here is another subspecies of C.argenteum.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: dea777 on July 16, 2014, 01:04:32 PM
Hi Oscar,
By any chance that you will have some seeds available? I've been looking for this variety for years!!
Thanks... ~Daisy
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on July 16, 2014, 05:40:50 PM
Hi Oscar,
By any chance that you will have some seeds available? I've been looking for this variety for years!!
Thanks... ~Daisy
Been challenging keeping up with orders because each fruit has only one seed. But if you want only a few seeds i should be able to get them to you in about a month or so.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 06, 2017, 04:24:39 AM
Hi Oscar,
How old is the tree and  at what age does it start to bear
fruit? I read somewhere in this thread it doesnt have a season and bear all year round.is it true?the skin looks thinner than chrysophyllum cainito and appears to have more flesh based on the image you posted.really amazes me the fruit flies dont attack those fruits
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on October 06, 2017, 05:15:20 AM
Hi Oscar,
How old is the tree and  at what age does it start to bear
fruit? I read somewhere in this thread it doesnt have a season and bear all year round.is it true?the skin looks thinner than chrysophyllum cainito and appears to have more flesh based on the image you posted.really amazes me the fruit flies dont attack those fruits

Now the tree is about 14 years old. It started fruiting when about 6 years. I would say it is fruiting about 9 months of the year.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: raimeiken on October 06, 2017, 07:58:16 AM
is it as cold sensitive as the starapple?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 06, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
Hi Oscar,
How old is the tree and  at what age does it start to bear
fruit? I read somewhere in this thread it doesnt have a season and bear all year round.is it true?the skin looks thinner than chrysophyllum cainito and appears to have more flesh based on the image you posted.really amazes me the fruit flies dont attack those fruits

Now the tree is about 14 years old. It started fruiting when about 6 years. I would say it is fruiting about 9 months of the year.
For real!Thats almost year round fruiting.Star apples are rare in malaysia btw and its a seasonal fruit here.This fruit that you have here could be popular in the future since it is very productive and taste like star apple.Does it have a thick rind or thin rind? From the picture it looks thin like sappodilla or abiu skin.I prefer to plant fruits with thick rind due to oriental fruit fly infestation.I just chopped my sapodilla tree due to the fruit infected with maggots
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on October 07, 2017, 01:18:34 AM
is it as cold sensitive as the starapple?
Don't know.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on October 07, 2017, 01:20:43 AM
Hi Oscar,
How old is the tree and  at what age does it start to bear
fruit? I read somewhere in this thread it doesnt have a season and bear all year round.is it true?the skin looks thinner than chrysophyllum cainito and appears to have more flesh based on the image you posted.really amazes me the fruit flies dont attack those fruits

Now the tree is about 14 years old. It started fruiting when about 6 years. I would say it is fruiting about 9 months of the year.
For real!Thats almost year round fruiting.Star apples are rare in malaysia btw and its a seasonal fruit here.This fruit that you have here could be popular in the future since it is very productive and taste like star apple.Does it have a thick rind or thin rind? From the picture it looks thin like sappodilla or abiu skin.I prefer to plant fruits with thick rind due to oriental fruit fly infestation.I just chopped my sapodilla tree due to the fruit infected with maggots

Starapples fruit here also only 2-3 months out of the year. We have oriental fruit fly and never seen them on this fruit, unless they are cracked, even though it is thin skinned.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 07, 2017, 02:57:34 AM
Hi Oscar,
How old is the tree and  at what age does it start to bear
fruit? I read somewhere in this thread it doesnt have a season and bear all year round.is it true?the skin looks thinner than chrysophyllum cainito and appears to have more flesh based on the image you posted.really amazes me the fruit flies dont attack those fruits

Now the tree is about 14 years old. It started fruiting when about 6 years. I would say it is fruiting about 9 months of the year.
For real!Thats almost year round fruiting.Star apples are rare in malaysia btw and its a seasonal fruit here.This fruit that you have here could be popular in the future since it is very productive and taste like star apple.Does it have a thick rind or thin rind? From the picture it looks thin like sappodilla or abiu skin.I prefer to plant fruits with thick rind due to oriental fruit fly infestation.I just chopped my sapodilla tree due to the fruit infected with maggots

Starapples fruit here also only 2-3 months out of the year. We have oriental fruit fly and never seen them on this fruit, unless they are cracked, even though it is thin skinned.
[/quote
Why on earth was this fruit never became popular?its a shame no effort is being made to popularize it.should it made its way to vietnam or the Philippines its going to be hugely popular.those two nation love caimitos.one of the most popular fruit there
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 12, 2017, 09:40:00 PM
I received 5 seeds and only one sprouted, the other 4 rotted. Here is a photo of the winner so far. Not sure if I should transplant since the tap root is so long, any ideas? not sure how fragile this plant is.
([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/71zevkqit/pink.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/71zevkqit/[/url])

([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/x1m5miclh/pink2.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/x1m5miclh/[/url])

Any update on the tree now? How big is the tree as of today?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 23, 2017, 11:37:47 AM
Found something on the net and just want to share.Apart from subspecies panamensis and auratum there is also another subspecies called nitidum.According to this site it grows to a height of 7 metres
https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on October 24, 2017, 05:28:51 AM
Found something on the net and just want to share.Apart from subspecies panamensis and auratum there is also another subspecies called nitidum.According to this site it grows to a height of 7 metres
[url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url] ([url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url])

There are dozens of species in the genus Chrysophyllum. This taxonomy site lists 89 accepted species names: http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y (http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y)
and i believe they are all edible.
Another species i recently got is C. venezuelanensis. Apparently this one has to be cooked first to be palatable.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 24, 2017, 10:42:09 PM
Found something on the net and just want to share.Apart from subspecies panamensis and auratum there is also another subspecies called nitidum.According to this site it grows to a height of 7 metres
[url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url] ([url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url])

There are dozens of species in the genus Chrysophyllum. This taxonomy site lists 89 accepted species names: [url]http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y[/url] ([url]http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y[/url])
and i believe they are all edible.
Another species i recently got is C. venezuelanensis. Apparently this one has to be cooked first to be palatable.

Are there any seeds available now?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on October 25, 2017, 12:44:52 AM
Found something on the net and just want to share.Apart from subspecies panamensis and auratum there is also another subspecies called nitidum.According to this site it grows to a height of 7 metres
[url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url] ([url]https://floredeguyane.piwigo.com/index?/category/1178-ichrysophyllum_argenteum_i[/url])

There are dozens of species in the genus Chrysophyllum. This taxonomy site lists 89 accepted species names: [url]http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y[/url] ([url]http://www.theplantlist.org/1.1/browse/A/Sapotaceae/Chrysophyllum/y[/url])
and i believe they are all edible.
Another species i recently got is C. venezuelanensis. Apparently this one has to be cooked first to be palatable.

Are there any seeds available now?

Not right now. Maybe in a couple of months.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on October 25, 2017, 05:53:32 AM
I suppose by couple of months it will be available in January ? Well I will wait then
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: arvind on May 24, 2018, 02:39:55 AM
Are there fruits now and how tall is the tree now?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Pan Dulce on May 24, 2018, 08:42:58 PM
 ???
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: apresser on November 12, 2018, 05:42:59 PM
Looking for some advice on a Chrysophyllum auratum tree. I've had this tree in the ground for around 4 years and it has been flowering non-stop over the last 6 months but has yet to set any fruit. Does anyone who has experience growing this know if C. Auratum is self pollinating or not? The tree is really healthy and I'm pretty certain its C. Auratum based on the appearance of leaf and musky smell. Some photos of the tree and flowers below. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Kg7IkHel.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BttSB2gl.jpg)
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on November 13, 2018, 12:20:22 AM
Yes that looks just like mine. Yes it is self pollinating. You might be missing the correct insect pollinator? You could try hand pollination. You could also try giving it a shot of high phossphorous and potassium fertilizer.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: apresser on November 13, 2018, 01:35:19 AM
Yes that looks just like mine. Yes it is self pollinating. You might be missing the correct insect pollinator? You could try hand pollination. You could also try giving it a shot of high phossphorous and potassium fertilizer.

I have tried to hand pollinate (with a thin paintbrush) but with no success. The flowers have no scent (although the leaves have that really strong skunk smell).  I have not seen any insects attracted to the flowers. Also there seems to be almost no pollen in the flowers (although they are so tiny and its hard to tell). I will try the fertilizer you suggest. Thanks for your reply!
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on November 13, 2018, 03:02:08 AM
Yes that looks just like mine. Yes it is self pollinating. You might be missing the correct insect pollinator? You could try hand pollination. You could also try giving it a shot of high phossphorous and potassium fertilizer.

I have tried to hand pollinate (with a thin paintbrush) but with no success. The flowers have no scent (although the leaves have that really strong skunk smell).  I have not seen any insects attracted to the flowers. Also there seems to be almost no pollen in the flowers (although they are so tiny and its hard to tell). I will try the fertilizer you suggest. Thanks for your reply!
You got the seeds from me? My guess is that the tree is just to young to hold fruit. But fertilizing it will help speed things up. You're in Hawaii i now see, so you should have the right pollinators.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Tang Tonic on November 13, 2018, 10:02:32 AM
Oscar, what time of the year are the seeds available?
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Vernmented on November 13, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Some Caimito trees are not self fertile. That may be the issue here.

Yes that looks just like mine. Yes it is self pollinating. You might be missing the correct insect pollinator? You could try hand pollination. You could also try giving it a shot of high phossphorous and potassium fertilizer.

I have tried to hand pollinate (with a thin paintbrush) but with no success. The flowers have no scent (although the leaves have that really strong skunk smell).  I have not seen any insects attracted to the flowers. Also there seems to be almost no pollen in the flowers (although they are so tiny and its hard to tell). I will try the fertilizer you suggest. Thanks for your reply!
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: fruitlovers on November 13, 2018, 04:53:51 PM
Oscar, what time of the year are the seeds available?
Tree has small fruits on it now. So guessing there should be seeds available starting in about 2-3 months.
Title: Re: New Fruit Similar to Starapple
Post by: Guanabanus on November 14, 2018, 03:21:44 PM
With many trees, Calcium and Boron and Zinc are also important for fruit set and retention.