Tropical Fruit Forum - International Tropical Fruit Growers

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: LEOOEL on March 29, 2013, 03:00:37 AM

Title: Avocado 24/7 Thread
Post by: LEOOEL on March 29, 2013, 03:00:37 AM
I've been trying for some years now to find mango and avocado cultivars, so that I'll have ripe fruit of either/both species year round. And now, I think I've found a way.

The tricky months in my Zone 10b, when there are no mangos or avocados, are somewhat fuzzy to say for sure. Based on my observations, they are either January to April, or March to April. I guess the weather plays a lot into it.

Ok, here it is.

Mangos:

I've been eating Rosy-Gold mangos sine March 1, 2013. I'm trying to fnd out if I fertilize, say in November, whether I can start eating mangos next February, we'll see.

Avocados:

I went to the Fruit & Spice Park on March 1, 2013, to check out the different varieties of avocado trees.

Only the Lula avocado tree variety had any, and it was just about full of them. Considering, that the tree size looked to me like a medium sized young tree, of about 20 feet tall.
About half the avocado fruit exibited a 70% green color, with the remaining 30% of the fruit exibiting a somewhat brownish/callus coloration. I suspect this had to do with the cold temperatures of the winter season.
The other half of the avocado fruit was about 40% green and 60% brownish/callus coloration.

To the touch, all the fruit felt super hard. As if they had been somehow mummified by the cold temperatures and rendered unedible. Although, on the ground, under the tree, there was half of an avocado that had obviously just been split open. The flesh looked green, even colored, and for a split second I was tempted to taste it, but of course, no way.

I went again to the Park on March 23, to check on the Lula avocado tree. This time, it only had one avocado left on the tree.
There was a Park employee nearby and I was lucky enough that I was allowed to pick this last Lula avocado from the tree. It was very hard to the touch. I took it home to let it ripen and soften.
Yesterday, March 27, 2013, it was soft and I ate it, and also shared it. I couldn't believe I was eating an avocado that I picked from a tree, at this time of year.

Well, I would have preferred the seed to be a little smaller, in relation to the rest of the size of the fruit.
About the  thickness of the flesh, well, I would have preferred it to have been thicker, in relation to the rest of the size of the fruit.
The color, again, I would have preferred it to be greener.
The size, larger than a Hass avocado, I would say medium sized.
And, the taste, although I liked it, I think regular season avocado probably tastes somewhat better.

But I must say, taking into consideration that I was eating an avocado that was just picked off a tree, way out of season, believe me, I was a happy camper and any complaints were the furthest thing from my mind.

Well, there you have it. I've found an avocado cultivar, Lula, that crossess into the mango season, with the Rosy-Gold mango cultivar.
Therefore, the goal of 'Mango OR Avocado, 24/7' is then accomplished.

Nevertheless, I think there has to be a higher quality avocado cultivar that could replace the Lula variety in this effort.
Possibly an avocado cultivar from California. In California they really have avocados year round. I don't see why the same thing cannot be accomplished in South Florida, USA.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: bsbullie on March 29, 2013, 06:52:57 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: bradflorida on March 29, 2013, 07:22:17 AM
The University of Florida, in its publication "Avocado growing in the Florida home landscape", lists the Kampong variety as producing fruit from Dec 1 to March 31.  I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this though.

Brad
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: bradflorida on March 29, 2013, 07:35:26 AM
What about the avocados that I see now in the supermarket, from the Dominican Republic?  Perhaps you could find out the variety name, and see if it would grow here in Florida also.

Brad
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: digigarden on March 29, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
What about the avocados that I see now in the supermarket, from the Dominican Republic?  Perhaps you could find out the variety name, and see if it would grow here in Florida also.

Brad

probably semil34
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 29, 2013, 11:52:33 PM
Thank you for the suggestions people on the two late season avocado cultivars "Kampong" and "Semil34." It's much appreciated. I have heard of the variety Semil34, but not of Kampong.  I'll look into both of them.

I only have one spot on my yard to plant one tree, of this latest in the season avocado that I'm looking for, so I have to choose right.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on March 29, 2013, 11:55:09 PM
Carlos is also busy looking for an avocado to fill that void.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Tropicdude on March 30, 2013, 02:34:23 AM
The Dominican Avocado that may fill that spot is a variety called Carla, which is a "new" good quality variety.  I have been trying to get my hands on one, so that I can get a scion to Carlos, that way he can evaluate it in S. Fla.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 30, 2013, 04:21:05 PM
I think is a matter of time before we get avocado year around. Some of the Hawaiians and some of the Guatemalans and even some Californians have good probabilities we will know more in a couple of years. I think by now I have them all growing at one stage or another.

The Dominican Republic has something we don't have. Elevations, there are high mountains where I believe they are growing the Semil 34 and Carla that is why they have then now. Plus they are playing a cold storage game in the tree and off the tree. I had a Carla last week that had 5-6 inches of roots around the seed, that was not so good.  I had another Carla that was perfect, great avocado, ate it with a spoon no seasoning. If you bring those to Florida they will be a lot earlier here than at 2-3 K feet elevation in DR.

In Florida we have a couple of avocados that are in season now, both patented cultivated by commercial growers. The latest, the Buck and the Wheeling both decent fruit. 
I'm kind of hoping for trees that flower late in Florida and the fruit hangs 10-12 months in the tree.  Some of the Guatemalan hybrids can do that.
The big gap is April, May and early June.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 30, 2013, 07:13:52 PM
I think is a matter of time before we get avocado year around. Some of the Hawaiians and some of the Guatemalans and even some Californians have good probabilities we will know more in a couple of years. I think by now I have them all growing at one stage or another.

The Dominican Republic has something we don't have. Elevations, there are high mountains where I believe they are growing the Semil 34 and Carla that is why they have then now. Plus they are playing a cold storage game in the tree and off the tree. I had a Carla last week that had 5-6 inches of roots around the seed, that was not so good.  I had another Carla that was perfect, great avocado, ate it with a spoon no seasoning. If you bring those to Florida they will be a lot earlier here than at 2-3 K feet elevation in DR.

In Florida we have a couple of avocados that are in season now, both patented cultivated by commercial growers. The latest, the Buck and the Wheeling both decent fruit. 
I'm kind of hoping for trees that flower late in Florida and the fruit hangs 10-12 months in the tree.  Some of the Guatemalan hybrids can do that.
The big gap is April, May and early June.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 30, 2013, 07:30:19 PM
The University of Florida, in its publication "Avocado growing in the Florida home landscape", lists the Kampong variety as producing fruit from Dec 1 to March 31.  I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this though.

Brad
The Kampong is at the Fairchild Williams Farm collection. I will pass by this week to see if its holding fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 31, 2013, 10:00:09 AM
Carlos, your're right, you hit the nail on the head, "the big gap is April, May and early June."

And the big question is, what quality avocado cultivar(s) can fill this gap.

That's a great idea, going to Fairchilds Williams Farm to see if any avocado trees are holding fruit. Now is a great time of the year to make some Progress on this yearly avocado void, that we have here in South Florida.

Like you said, it's just a matter of time before the solution to this problem is figured out. And, the quicker the better.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 31, 2013, 04:56:32 PM
I'm very encouraged with what I'm growing.
I know Mexicola is not a quality fruit but it will ripen in the middle of May in So. Florida. I should have about 20-30 fruit this year.  If you consider the Mexicola worth eating there is fruit in early May. This was an unexpected surprise Mexicola ripening in less than 5 months. This is why I don't pay attention to maturity dates form other locations.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on March 31, 2013, 05:17:32 PM
I'm very encouraged with what I'm growing.
I know Mexicola is not a quality fruit but it will ripen in the middle of May in So. Florida. I should have about 20-30 fruit this year.  If you consider the Mexicola worth eating there is fruit in early May. This was an unexpected surprise Mexicola ripening in less than 5 months. This is why I don't pay attention to maturity dates form other locations.

Hi Carlos, those the mexicola hold more promise than the rest of the avocado you are experimenting with?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 31, 2013, 07:29:12 PM
I'm very encouraged with what I'm growing.
I know Mexicola is not a quality fruit but it will ripen in the middle of May in So. Florida. I should have about 20-30 fruit this year.  If you consider the Mexicola worth eating there is fruit in early May. This was an unexpected surprise Mexicola ripening in less than 5 months. This is why I don't pay attention to maturity dates form other locations.

Hi Carlos, those the mexicola hold more promise than the rest of the avocado you are experimenting with?
Mexicola as far as I know it matures in mid May. In reality I'm more hopeful on some of the other I have to be better quality fruit, except we have no idea about maturity dates.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on March 31, 2013, 09:14:19 PM
I'm very encouraged with what I'm growing.
I know Mexicola is not a quality fruit but it will ripen in the middle of May in So. Florida. I should have about 20-30 fruit this year.  If you consider the Mexicola worth eating there is fruit in early May. This was an unexpected surprise Mexicola ripening in less than 5 months. This is why I don't pay attention to maturity dates form other locations.

Hi Carlos, those the mexicola hold more promise than the rest of the avocado you are experimenting with?
Mexicola as far as I know it matures in mid May. In reality I'm more hopeful on some of the other I have to be better quality fruit, except we have no idea about maturity dates.

In early summer here. ...rootstock material.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on April 01, 2013, 05:46:15 PM
Elevation helps in having year round avocados, but i don't believe it's crucial if you have enough different cultivars planted. Here we have year round avocados i believe based on both situations.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 01, 2013, 11:54:14 PM
Ok Oscar, rub it in.  ;D  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on April 02, 2013, 12:03:28 AM
Ok Oscar, rub it in.  ;D  ;)  :)

Not trying to rub it in, on contrary telling you it's totally doable, even without any elevation.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 02, 2013, 12:25:43 AM
Ok, thank you for the motivation.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on April 02, 2013, 12:41:39 AM
Ok, thank you for the motivation.

Yes that's what it was, motivation and hope.  :) I guess i didn't make myself clear. What i was meaning is: keep trying, because that goal is definitely achievable.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 02, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
We are trying and we will succeed is only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on April 02, 2013, 06:03:33 PM
We are trying and we will succeed is only a matter of time.

I'm sure you're right! Florida will be a lot more liveable place then. Let me know. I can't live without my daily avocados.  ;D :-*
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 04, 2013, 02:10:20 AM
Unfortunately, I just can't wait two (2) years, to decide which quality avocado variety I will choose, to fill that yearly avocado/mango-void. I have to choose the avocado-tree-variety sometime this year, before the Summer Season ends.

The months where there are no mangos or avocados in my yard are: Part of December, January, February and part of March (my Rosy-Gold mango tree had ripe fruit since March 1).

The best I've been able to come up with, for my yearly avocado-void, is the Lula avocado tree variety. I picked the last avocado fruit off a Lula tree on March 23, 2013. That is the latest date that I've ever heard (or seen) an avocado variety holding its fruit. It wasn't hedious at all, but I know that the quality could be better in another cultivar, that has yet to be discovered.

If I do end up choosing the Lula avocado tree variety, I wonder how big will the tree get. I would prefer it to be really big, so that it serves a second purpose, that of covering some unsightly power lines.

The ideal situation would be, to find a quality avocado variety with ripe fruit from January to May. Now that would fill just about everyone's yearly avocado-void, in my Zone-10b.

I had concidered the Choquette avocado variety, but was informed that it was hedious, so I ruled it out.

This is some interesting information that I've been able to gather, on the Lula avocado tree:

Fruit pear-shaped, sometimes with a neck, medium-large. Skin almost smooth. Flesh pale to greenish-yellow. Oil content 12-16%. Seed large, tight. Also, great as rootstock. Season medium-late (November-December). Tree is tall, bears early and heavily. Cold-resistant, successful in Central and South Florida where it is a formerly the leading commercial cultivar. More frost resistant than most. It is renowned for its ability to endure harsh winters, and for its exceptionally long harvesting period. This makes Lula an exceptional choice for homeowners in and around Orlando. Originated from seed from parent tree planted 1915 by Mrs. Lula Cellon at Miami, Florida.

I haven't made my final decision yet, but I get the feeling, that the Lula avocado tree is going to be the one I'll end up choosing; wow, this variety has been around since 1915!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 04, 2013, 05:54:10 PM
A men most have what he needs.
If something better develops down the road you can always top work it. Lula makes a good root stock.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 06, 2013, 01:52:29 AM
Good way to put it. Good suggestion. And, good point.

Love your videos Carlos, very educational. Please keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 06, 2013, 08:36:06 AM
FYI I dont grow Lulas but know pleople that do and they tell me is very suseptible to desease and it needs extra spraying. In a home environment may no mean much if you can spray it a few times a season.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 06, 2013, 11:20:14 PM
Carlos, is there a better quality avocado than Lula, that will hold fruit until March 23, 2013, or longer? As I've mentioned, I picked the last fruit off a Lula tree on this date, this year.

I'm looking to have the mango and avocado season, criss-cross one another. This way I can have mango and/or avocado year round.

What I liked about the Lula is that it helps me criss-cross into the mango season. Like I said, I've been eating Rosy-Gold mangos since March 1, 2013.

But now, after you've mentioned that Lula is susceptible to disease, I'm just not so sure about this variety.

When I was observing the Lula avocado fruit hanging on the tree, between March 1, and March 23, 2013, I noticed that about two-thirds, or more, of the hanging fruit, had brownish spots over 60% of the fruit. All the fruits felt hard like a rock to the touch. I thoght all this was due to the cold weather, and maybe it was. But, now that you've mention disease susceptibility, I'm not so sure.

Man, I thought my search was over. I thought all I had to deal with was, that the seed was slightly large.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 07, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
As long as you keep the tree small like under 15 ft and you have a sprayer that can reach the top, It would work for you until there is something better to plant. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 09, 2013, 03:42:10 AM
So Lula is susceptible to scab disease. Now it clicks. I saw it with my own eyes. They looked somewhat unsightly. On March 1, 2013, the tree was still, unbelievably, pretty much full of them. You could see a good deal of scab on pretty much all of them. On March 23, 2013, it only had one left on the tree. Althoug with scab, in perfect edible codition.

Because of the scab disease issue, I very much dislike to have to spray it, or keep it at a height of 15'. Therefore, the Lula is out of my consideration; I wonder if using another type of rootstock on the Lula will have any effect on the scab disease situation.

Carlos, after researching yours and others posts on this TFF, I've also ruled out of my consideration the 'Oro-Negro' variety. Great taste but disease issue also.

All this leads me back to Monroe avocado variety. Just moderately susceptible to disease, large size and productive. A quality avocado, though not as great in taste (or for guacamole) as 'Oro Negro.' And, based from what I've been able to gather from first hand observation, it looks like the Lula will hold fruit longer than Monroe. Although, several scientific reports on the net, say that Lula and Monroe hold fruit for the same length/period of time.

So, at least for the time being, Monroe is back to the top of my list. Carlos, you, Rob and others have been really helpful in this search. Thank you. Unless anything changes, it looks like I'll be pruchasing a grafted Monroe avocado tree sometime this summer. If it still leaves me with an avocado/mango void, I think it's only for approximately 15 days or so. I can live with that, until that new, super-duper, void-filling variety shows up, that is.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: ofdsurfer on April 09, 2013, 07:41:52 AM
Leooel,

Take a two week vacation to the tropics during your "void" time.  ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 09, 2013, 04:03:43 PM
So Lula is susceptible to scab disease. Now it clicks. I saw it with my own eyes. They looked somewhat unsightly. On March 1, 2013, the tree was still, unbelievably, pretty much full of them. You could see a good deal of scab on pretty much all of them. On March 23, 2013, it only had one left on the tree. Althoug with scab, in perfect edible codition.

Because of the scab disease issue, I very much dislike to have to spray it, or keep it at a height of 15'. Therefore, the Lula is out of my consideration; I wonder if using another type of rootstock on the Lula will have any effect on the scab disease situation.

Carlos, after researching yours and others posts on this TFF, I've also ruled out of my consideration the 'Oro-Negro' variety. Great taste but disease issue also.

All this leads me back to Monroe avocado variety. Just moderately susceptible to disease, large size and productive. A quality avocado, though not as great in taste (or for guacamole) as 'Oro Negro.' And, based from what I've been able to gather from first hand observation, it looks like the Lula will hold fruit longer than Monroe. Although, several scientific reports on the net, say that Lula and Monroe hold fruit for the same length/period of time.

So, at least for the time being, Monroe is back to the top of my list. Carlos, you, Rob and others have been really helpful in this search. Thank you. Unless anything changes, it looks like I'll be pruchasing a grafted Monroe avocado tree sometime this summer. If it still leaves me with an avocado/mango void, I think it's only for approximately 15 days or so. I can live with that, until that new, super-duper, void-filling variety shows up, that is.
Loodel, that is not to say that Monroe is without original sin. It too has its issues, most late fruit in a summer like we had last year will need some spray. If you want late avocados budget in an sprayer. It is less susceptible than Lula but is not disease free.  If you get a wet summer you will probably have to spray. How ever it produces well, a tree kept at 20 feet will produce all you could eat,  sets fruit well and it is one of our best tasting avocados we have.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 10, 2013, 01:23:19 AM
I realize there's no perfect avocado that is similar to a Keitt mango (almost perfect), specially a late season avocado. But, I'm a lazy gardener. I mostly just like to apply fertilizer, let the tree get as big as it can, and eat the yummy fruit. With this Monroe avocado variety, "I think this may just be the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (couldn't resist). As far as quality and being one of the latest avocados of the season, it looks like Monroe is the way to go.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: jc on April 10, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
What are you spraying to prevent/treat avocado scab?

FYI I dont grow Lulas but know pleople that do and they tell me is very suseptible to desease and it needs extra spraying. In a home environment may no mean much if you can spray it a few times a season.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 11, 2013, 04:06:09 PM
Good old copper
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on April 11, 2013, 04:53:35 PM
Good old copper

Is copper considered neutral and not a harmful pesticide, as far as effects on human health go?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 11, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
As far as I'm concerned is safe. Don't pay attention to everything you read. Do your own research and test,  then draw you conclusions.
I test my soil regularly every 5-6 year. I use Cooper 2-3 times a year in 2005 the copper levels in my soil were medium (Normal) in 2011 also medium. My fruit test in 2011 showed no pesticides or fungicides detected in the fruit. I'm nor required to do these test but I do them because my family eats what I grow.
If you apply according to label I feel I'm OK. If you are going to be out there spraying every week then you may be asking for it.  I think there is some use allowed of Copper in organic farming.

 These is a lot of panic out there and people repeating what they read in a web page or an article. The fact is that in a wet summer like we had last year if you don't spray you get a lot of disease probably worst than copper.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: jc on April 11, 2013, 09:25:30 PM
Thank you!

Good old copper
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 13, 2013, 02:06:40 AM
I think is a matter of time before we get avocado year around. Some of the Hawaiians and some of the Guatemalans and even some Californians have good probabilities we will know more in a couple of years. I think by now I have them all growing at one stage or another.

The Dominican Republic has something we don't have. Elevations, there are high mountains where I believe they are growing the Semil 34 and Carla that is why they have then now. Plus they are playing a cold storage game in the tree and off the tree. I had a Carla last week that had 5-6 inches of roots around the seed, that was not so good.  I had another Carla that was perfect, great avocado, ate it with a spoon no seasoning. If you bring those to Florida they will be a lot earlier here than at 2-3 K feet elevation in DR.

In Florida we have a couple of avocados that are in season now, both patented cultivated by commercial growers. The latest, the Buck and the Wheeling both decent fruit. 
I'm kind of hoping for trees that flower late in Florida and the fruit hangs 10-12 months in the tree.  Some of the Guatemalan hybrids can do that.
The big gap is April, May and early June.

Carlos, while I was looking into the avocado variety you metioned, the "Buck-3" variety, that in turn led me to the "April" avocado variety.

Can you please share your opinion of the "Buck-3" (susceptiblity to disease?) and "April" avocado varieties?

Are the "Buck-3" and "April" available for purchase? If so where? Thank you for your help.

Buck-3: Fruit matures from the end of March through mid-May. Fine eating quality with non-fibrous flesh. Fruit quality is excellent with buttery, smooth flesh with an excellent nutty flavor. Fruit size is Medium to Large. Consistency -- smooth and buttery without fibers. The Buck 3 avocado tree bears every year but one year has a very heavy crop and the other a lighter crop.

April: The fruit matures and can be picked from December to April. This avocado hangs on the tree until the end of March and the beginning of April. Cultivar differs from other known Florida varieties in that some fruits remain on the tree until March and April, with a picking season from December to April. Tree: Very large, very broad and very tall. The growth pattern is intermediate or spreading. It was originally a seedling. The canopy is densely foliated. Plant resistance/susceptibility: The leaves and fruit show a high degree of tolerance to diseases. Fruit size: Medium to Medium-Large. No disease spots despite lack of fungicidal sprays were observed. There are no fibers in the pulp. Pulp consistency is smooth and buttery. Quality: Quality is excellent. The flesh was buttery, smooth, with an excellent nutty flavor. Pulp oil content is unknown. The tree bears every year but one year has a very heavy crop and the other a lighter crop. The tree receives minimal care. No minor element sprays, iron drenches and only a small amount of dry fertilizer were being applied regularly. Comments: Because of the outstanding and unique horticultural characters, especially its very late season, this cultivar should be planted in a grove setting for further evaluation. This cultivar should command excellent prices due to its late harvest season.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 13, 2013, 12:16:43 PM
This is what I know:
April is a patented variety. I know of the owner of the patent and for some reason he is not sharing bud wood or issuing licenses to reproduce or grow. I also understand is more of a March fruit and from what I been told is not consistent. Don't know about disease.  I suspect is not as good as the patent papers describes.
Buck also patented. I did taste the fruit I got two pcs from a commercial grower that is growing then now under agreement or owns the patent now, not sure. The trees looked good after a wet summer so I have to assume it is decent in the disease department. He did probably sprayed a few times. The fruit is excellent. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 13, 2013, 10:59:05 PM
I'm pretty much sold on the "Monroe" avocado variety. It'll cover the December through February avocado period.

With the "Buck-3" avocado variety, I would just have an, acceptable, avocado-void of about 3 weeks, in the month of March.
Now if I only could somehow obtain the "Buck-3," whether by bud-wood sharing (how much?), issuing a license (how much?) or by any other appropriate means.
I just need one "Buck-3" tree for my yard. It's not for any commercial purposes. I'm perfectly willing to abide by any agreement, such as not sharing or selling the fruit.

I've already allocated two locations in my yard. One for the "Monroe", and one for the "Buck-3."  :-X

Leo
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 13, 2013, 11:31:41 PM
My suggestion:  plant the Monroe and let's see where the Buck heads. I have the feeling that is not going to be available to homeowners any time soon. Also I hear there is a Lula Choquette hybrid out there no idea as to maturity dates but it sure could be an interesting late variety, have not seen it just heard is out there.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 14, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Wow, interesting, amazing, I'm impressed. I wonder about what are the quality specifications on this new Lula-Choquette-Hybrid variety. And, if the process of observing it in the field is completed, or if it's another patent. The idea is brilliant and it sounds like they know what they are-trying-to/have accomplish(ed). 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but, this, this is a list!: Buck-3, Lula-Choquette-Hybrid, April and who knows what other new late-season/winter varieties are out there. Thanks for pointing in the right direction.

I just wish the people who own these fruit tree cultivars, would allow them to be purchased and just state their conditions; i.e. the tree and its fruit cannot be propagated or sold, etc. If there is a demand for theses fruit trees, why not supply that demand? Time is passing, and there will be other, better, avocado varieties coming (from California?), that could render these present/current varieties obsolete.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 11, 2013, 03:42:33 AM
I finally got a grafted Monroe avocado last Saturday at Excalibur Nursery. Rob was very helpful and accomodating with my tree pickup, after I got out of work, which I much appreciate. The tree is already planted and doing great.

I started this thread to fill the quality avocado/mango void for the months of December-February and avocado void for March-June in the Zone 10 where I am at.
Well, with this Monroe avocado I think I've solved the months of December-February.

I hope that finding a quality avocado cultivar(s) that ripen(s) in the months of March-June, is not far off. The help provided to this endeavor by Carlos, Rob and other members of this forum is greatly appreciated. I'm really interested in finding this quality avocado cultivar(s) this year, God willing, so that I can plant it and let it begin to grow.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on May 11, 2013, 05:57:56 AM
I finally got a grafted Monroe avocado last Saturday at Excalibur Nursery. Rob was very helpful and accomodating with my tree pickup, after I got out of work, which I much appreciate. The tree is already planted and doing great.

I started this thread to fill the quality avocado/mango void for the months of December-February and avocado void for March-June in the Zone 10 where I am at.
Well, with this Monroe avocado I think I've solved the months of December-February.

I hope that finding a quality avocado cultivar(s) that ripen(s) in the months of March-June, is not far off. The help provided to this endeavor by Carlos, Rob and other members of this forum is greatly appreciated. I'm really interested in finding this quality avocado cultivar(s) this year, God willing, so that I can plant it and let it begin to grow.

Rob (bsbullie) is only there on Saturdays. Rob was very helpful to me and the crew I brought along last year when I bought a Coc mango (Vietnam origin) there which is coming along great so thanks Rob and Excalibur!
Monroe avocado is one I never thought of until Carlos mentioned it frequently. I saw one at Home Depot 4 months ago and planted it right away. It is doing very well while my Brogdon and Lula are in suspended animation
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 11, 2013, 08:11:20 AM
As far as I'm concerned is safe. Don't pay attention to everything you read. Do your own research and test,  then draw you conclusions.
I test my soil regularly every 5-6 year. I use Cooper 2-3 times a year in 2005 the copper levels in my soil were medium (Normal) in 2011 also medium. My fruit test in 2011 showed no pesticides or fungicides detected in the fruit. I'm nor required to do these test but I do them because my family eats what I grow.
If you apply according to label I feel I'm OK. If you are going to be out there spraying every week then you may be asking for it.  I think there is some use allowed of Copper in organic farming.

 There is a lot of panic out there and people repeating what they read in a web page or an article. The fact is that in a wet summer like we had last year if you don't spray you get a lot of disease probably worst than copper.

Yep, if someone on the internet says it and it's repeated, then it must be true.

Thank you for those words of wisdom, and rational thoughts.

Kocide is effective and been used for ages.

Mark   
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 11, 2013, 01:41:00 PM
Leooel Monroes will set a lot of fruit when small. I dont know if your tree has any if it does i would suggest you remove it all.
In the first few years that you ferlilize the tree  the fruit will drop by early January, then in two three years reduce the fertilizer to one small application low in nitrogen, some people dont fertilize at all and then the fruit stays on the tree longer.
Its one of the best avocados we have
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 11, 2013, 10:33:45 PM
Carlos, the Monroe avocado tree is still small, so no avocados yet, but I'll follow your recommendations to the letter, thank you for giving them.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 11, 2013, 10:44:12 PM
I finally got a grafted Monroe avocado last Saturday at Excalibur Nursery. Rob was very helpful and accomodating with my tree pickup, after I got out of work, which I much appreciate. The tree is already planted and doing great.

I started this thread to fill the quality avocado/mango void for the months of December-February and avocado void for March-June in the Zone 10 where I am at.
Well, with this Monroe avocado I think I've solved the months of December-February.

I hope that finding a quality avocado cultivar(s) that ripen(s) in the months of March-June, is not far off. The help provided to this endeavor by Carlos, Rob and other members of this forum is greatly appreciated. I'm really interested in finding this quality avocado cultivar(s) this year, God willing, so that I can plant it and let it begin to grow.

Rob (bsbullie) is only there on Saturdays. Rob was very helpful to me and the crew I brought along last year when I bought a Coc mango (Vietnam origin) there which is coming along great so thanks Rob and Excalibur!
Monroe avocado is one I never thought of until Carlos mentioned it frequently. I saw one at Home Depot 4 months ago and planted it right away. It is doing very well while my Brogdon and Lula are in suspended animation

Sounds to me like what you've got there is a a future avocado heaven. I also sometimes spend hours researching a cultivar's specifications before I purchase.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 27, 2013, 03:55:16 PM
Carlos, or Oscar, or anyone else, what's your opinion on the Yamagata avocado cultivar being offereded at Top Tropicals? Do fruit really begin to ripen in April or May? How is the fruit production and is it reliable year after year? Help, please.

These are the specifications offered on their website:

Name of variety: Yamagata
Ripening Season: very early March-July
Plant size: vigorous and upright, dark green foliage
Production: ?   
Fruit Shape / SizeA: large, oval-pyriform with a curved neck
fruit color: green
Cold tolerance: Medium to low
Comments: Yamagata variety is very early. It ripens in Florida in March-April when no other varieties produce fruit. Can ripen over a long season, from March through July. Fruit is large, with a small seed and green skin. Flesh green, smooth, flavor nutty. It's a very fine, gourmet Hawaiian avocado named for agriculture specialist Heiji Yamagata, who develeoped it. According to University of Hawaii consumer poll, Yamagata was selected as one of the best Hawaiian cultivars. Medium to low cold hardiness. Very vigorous and upright growing tree.
Type: West Indian
Place of Origin: Hawaii
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 27, 2013, 04:29:30 PM
For me it has been a struggle with Yamagata and Malama. I lost a couple of potted  trees I got a couple of years ago. I planted a  5 gal tree in the grove in June 2011 and has done poorly 23 month later it has hardly grown. My last attempt at the insistence of a friend, that wants to eat avocados in April and May, ( he believes anything in the web)  was to top work a tree. I did so in January 2013. Its taken off, but that is expected.  On my end I'm a couple of years away from actually being able to answer  your questions. 

On the Top tropical description of maturity, I'm suspect. They don't tell you what part of the state is this information from. They don't tell you the root stock they use or where the tree comes from. From their description of Nishikawa we know from people in the south west coast of Florida that it is a lot earlier. 

I doubt that this tree that flowered early in So. Florida will hold fruit for 14-15 months in our heat and humidity. Time will tell. In the mean time I suggest that unless you have space and money to spare to hold off until we get confirmation. I'm sure there are people growing the tree besides myself in So. Florida and at some point we would know.

Another issue is that if this is West Indies race why is it struggling in So. Florida? I know this is the description from Hawaii but I don't know of any 100%West Indies race that holds fruit for that long. May be a hybrid?

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 27, 2013, 09:48:16 PM
I'm glad progress is being done and that it's a matter of time, before we can obtain an avocado cultivar that ripens in our Zone 10 in the months of February through May.  I spoke to a friend, who's on the same quest, and he's got about 100 avocado seedlings going. He's planning to plant them in a 10 acre property that he owns. From planting to fruition, I guess it'll take approximately around ten (10) years. A part of me wishes the genome of each seedling could be read and inputted into an advanced supercomputer, which would then be able to determine the most promising candidates. But, our civilization is not there yet (we're being slowed by those trying to enslave, control and kill our fellow man; sorry, couldn't resist).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on May 29, 2013, 12:52:15 AM
Carlos, or Oscar, or anyone else, what's your opinion on the Yamagata avocado cultivar being offereded at Top Tropicals? Do fruit really begin to ripen in April or May? How is the fruit production and is it reliable year after year? Help, please.

These are the specifications offered on their website:

Name of variety: Yamagata
Ripening Season: very early March-July
Plant size: vigorous and upright, dark green foliage
Production: ?   
Fruit Shape / SizeA: large, oval-pyriform with a curved neck
fruit color: green
Cold tolerance: Medium to low
Comments: Yamagata variety is very early. It ripens in Florida in March-April when no other varieties produce fruit. Can ripen over a long season, from March through July. Fruit is large, with a small seed and green skin. Flesh green, smooth, flavor nutty. It's a very fine, gourmet Hawaiian avocado named for agriculture specialist Heiji Yamagata, who develeoped it. According to University of Hawaii consumer poll, Yamagata was selected as one of the best Hawaiian cultivars. Medium to low cold hardiness. Very vigorous and upright growing tree.
Type: West Indian
Place of Origin: Hawaii
Yamagata wasn't selected as "one of the best", it was selected as #1 top choice by a panel of consumers. (The #1 choice by panel of chefs was Kahaluu.) So indeed the Yamagata is a very fine avocado. Here it's season is March-July. It bears well and consistently here and is commercially grown. I doubt it is West Indian type. Probably it is a hybrid with some West Indian and Guatemalan mixed. How well it's going to do in Florida is up in the air. But i would say this is one of the top choices for trials there. The others being Kahaluu and Malama (rated #2 in chef taste test).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 29, 2013, 06:33:58 PM
All three are in the oven in my grove. Now what we need is time.  The Malama was hard to get going but finally it is, Kahaluu and Yamagata are doing well. Also Murashige. Oscar what do you think of Murashige avocado. The Nishikawa we know is going to do well. Is doing well in the west coast and my top worked tree from last year is holding some fruit.  Next 18 months will be exciting. It list for me. I get excited about avocados.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 29, 2013, 11:41:56 PM
Carlos and Oscar, thank you for your exciting info./input, about the Yamagata avocado cultivar. I think I'm addicted/hooked with all this excitement. I mean, Oscar mentions the excellent qualities of this cultivar, and Carlos informs that in 18 months we'll know if it is the avocado, void-filling, cultivar that we're looking for south Florida, U.SA.

Well, it's great to get confirmation that the Yamagata is indeed a great avocado cultivar. And, 18 months pass by rather quickly. So I say, take care during that time my friends, because as soon as Carlos brings the good news that we (well, Carlos really) finally have this quality-avocado-missing-link, I invite you to a nice, cold, well deserved quality beer (I rarely ever drink but when I do, I prefer a dark beer; to be consumed under safe/secure circumstances, of course).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you guys are the best. Thanks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on May 30, 2013, 03:34:44 AM
All three are in the oven in my grove. Now what we need is time.  The Malama was hard to get going but finally it is, Kahaluu and Yamagata are doing well. Also Murashige. Oscar what do you think of Murashige avocado. The Nishikawa we know is going to do well. Is doing well in the west coast and my top worked tree from last year is holding some fruit.  Next 18 months will be exciting. It list for me. I get excited about avocados.

Murashige is also an excellent avocado. A lot of the avocados here were pioneered by Japanese farmers on Kona coast. That is why many of them have Japanese names.
I am excited to finally have an Ota avocado growing. That is a giant round black, cannonball sized avocado. It's very buttery and sweet. A real winner.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 30, 2013, 05:23:58 AM
Murashige,  tree wise loves it here and is growing well.  Also I forgot San Miguel another late Hawaiian variety that is also doing well.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 30, 2013, 08:23:21 AM
On the Top Tropical description of maturity, I'm suspect. They don't tell you what part of the state is this information from. They don't tell you the root stock they use or where the tree comes from. From their description of Nishikawa we know from people in the south west coast of Florida that it is a lot earlier. 

After buying a Nishikawa from them, never will I do business with them again. 

I have a huge collection of avocado varietal info (was gonna do the Carlos pioneer thang at one time in coastal South Texas) and on one sheet that I copied it says that Nishikawa is a WI X G combo.  This is what they have to say about it -
Quote
The hybrids or crosses of the Guatemalan and West Indian races may have various combinations of characteristics of these races.  For instance, there may be a typical smooth-skinned West Indian type of avocado fruiting in February.  An example appears to be the Nishikawa variety.

I didn't note the source but if memory serves me correct I copied that from an Hawaiian source.

Perhaps this is why Nishikawa goes 14-15 months Carlos?  It takes on that trait from the Guat genes?

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on May 30, 2013, 10:20:58 PM
I think most of the popular Hawaiian avo cultivars are hybrids of W. Indian and Guatemalan, but i haven't researched it.
I have a San Miguel, but is still very small tree. I haven't tasted that cultivar yet.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 30, 2013, 10:40:04 PM

Perhaps this is why Nishikawa goes 14-15 months Carlos?  It takes on that trait from the Guat genes?

Mark

Mark the Nishikawa does not go for 14-15 month. We know for a fact it Flowers around February-March and is ready by November-December in Florida. We had Nishicawa from Berto at Thanksgiving Dinner
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 31, 2013, 12:28:44 AM
Oscar, I've been thinking about how amazing it is that many of the wonderful fruits that we enjoy here in South Florida have come from Hawaii.
On the same line of thought, I'm sure that there are many fruit cultivars, from other locactions like California or Texas, where Mark is at, just waiting to be discovered that would be great additions to the South Florida landscape.

Carlos makes an important point, that most likely there are others that have have been growing the Yamagata avocado cultivar for several years and enjoying the fruit.
We're all living busy lives, but I would really appreciate it if they would take some time letting us know about their experiences with this Yamagata avocado cultivar.
I know that the answers to our questions are coming, as Carlos has said, but the sooner we get more input on this cultivar (and others), the better.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 31, 2013, 08:03:40 AM
Thanks Carlos.

I think once pioneers like Carlos and you other guys fill that gap in harvesting dates that we could focus on dwarf trees.  That would serve many a backyard gardener and those growing in greenhouses like me.  I know of only a few and they are all from California, or at least grown there - Gwen, Wurtz, perhaps Holiday although the latter can get quite big.  I hope my Oro Negro doesn't get out of hand and plan to keep it and others contained using pruning and a PGR.  It's an amazing tree, a 4X4' tree holding 24 very nice fruit about the size of a large key lime.  If they hold through August, I've got it cinched.   ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 31, 2013, 05:21:01 PM
Hey Mark is your greenhouse humid? Give that Oro Negro a little copper spray.  Oro Negro is a very robust tree, huge as I compare with others. There has been non-stop rain here for several days.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 31, 2013, 06:20:36 PM
Hey Mark is your greenhouse humid? Give that Oro Negro a little copper spray.  Oro Negro is a very robust tree, huge as I compare with others. There has been non-stop rain here for several days.

Carlos, do you think the size of Oro Negro can be controlled through regular pruning?  How does the size of a Monroe tree compare?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 31, 2013, 07:43:58 PM
John every tree specially avocado can be controlled. Oro Negro is a relative new tree I don,t know How it will react after heavy pruning every year. If its going to flower and fruit. Time will tell, What I can tell you is that it grows a lot faster than Monroe. I have them growing next to each other.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 31, 2013, 10:18:15 PM
My greenhouse is not humid compared to Miami.  50% RH at best.

 Took a look at the Oro Negro tree today,  It's only 3' tall at best and holding 24 fine fruit approaching golf ball size.  I've given it 2 shots of Bonzi, a PGR.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 31, 2013, 11:38:41 PM
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 01, 2013, 09:08:33 AM
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!

Why is that, Carlos?  If it's a robust grower anyway, what harm could be done?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 01, 2013, 09:55:05 AM
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!


Why is that, Carlos?  If it's a robust grower anyway, what harm could be done?


Psssst, over here fellers ->  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0)   :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 01, 2013, 02:57:59 PM
If I understand it correctly the tree is 36 inches tall and is holding over 20 fruit.  Regard less of the root system. I would concentrate in the first two years for the tree to grow. May be leave one or two. The tree will probably start dropping fruit because there is no way the tree can carry 50% of what it has. I have been bitten by that bug too many times only to be set back.
But every master knows his trees.................................. Hope it holds all. Send us pictures Pleaseeeeeeee.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 01, 2013, 05:24:46 PM
I can corroborate what Carlos is saying. I once planted a grafted lychee tree and it immediatly produced fruit, which I then let grow and ripen. Afterwards, I spent many years waiting for it to fruit again. So, I also have learned my lesson, let the root system develop first and then the tree will be strong enough to produce the expected fruit crop.

Please, if any of you avocado-Indiana-Jones know of avocado cultivars that ripen in the dead winter months (preferably Zone 10), in places like California and Texas, please be sure to let us know; any help provided is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on June 02, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
I can corroborate what Carlos is saying. I once planted a grafted lychee tree and it immediatly produced fruit, which I then let grow and ripen. Afterwards, I spent many years waiting for it to fruit again. So, I also have learned my lesson, let the root system develop first and then the tree will be strong enough to produce the expected fruit crop.

Please, if any of you avocado-Indiana-Jones know of avocado cultivars that ripen in the dead winter months (preferably Zone 10), in places like California and Texas, please be sure to let us know; any help provided is much appreciated.


Here is the ECHO avocado variety chart. When they get ripe. http://www.echonet.org/content/fruitInformation/621. (http://www.echonet.org/content/fruitInformation/621.) ECHO is in Ft Meyers

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 02, 2013, 07:37:19 AM

Psssst, over here fellers ->  [url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0[/url])   :)


^^^  Again, I explained (and linked) to a new thread I started regarding a plant's balancing act, or rather a grower's need to balance the fruit with the vigor of the plant.   As explained in the new thread, it has an incredible root system plus it is not exposed to ANY of the stresses of outdoor growing except for very temporary and passing heat.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 02, 2013, 01:32:56 PM
Leo look at this chart. I think I will give a try to Winter Mexican. I think this is the fruit sold at Nornan Brothers in 87 Avenue south of Sunset in Miami in March and April. I think it would grow well here. Well someone is growing them. I wonder if any of the Forum member is growing it he in Dade?

(http://s8.postimg.cc/oq7l4b5c1/Table_2_page_1.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/oq7l4b5c1/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 02, 2013, 02:53:39 PM
But in the text they say Winter Mexican is Oct-Dec.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 02, 2013, 03:19:33 PM
If it is the same fruit I saw last year it was March-April. I will top work a tree in January and we'll know for sure unless some one is growing it now ans gives the information.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 03, 2013, 02:17:18 AM
When Zands pointed to ECHO's avocado list, I was like, why didn't I think of that. Good thinking Zands. That's a good, informative avocado Chart list; I've been to ECHO Nursery before and bought a good deal of fruit trees from them.

Carlos appropriately focused on the Winter-Mexican avocado, also found in the same avocado ECHO Chart list that Zands pointed out.
Carlos, your observation may be correct. This may be the avocado cultivar that we've been looking for and that will fill the avocado gap for the months of February to April. As you suggest, there most likely are (many?) other fruit tree enthusiasts who have this cultivar and can share some light, once and for all, as to whether it does fill the avo. gap of Feb. to April.

As Johnb51 noticed, there is a disparity between the information about the Winter Mexican avocado cultivar given in the Chart list and the information mentioned in the text. Good observartion John. I plan to give ECHO Nursery a call tomorrow and I'll see what I can find out, about whether the Winter-Mexican avo. fruit riping season is Feb.-April or Oct.-Dec.

"If" ECHO can confirm a Winter-Mexican avocado fruit maturity of Feb.-April, the quality factor remains, as mentioned in the ECHO text: "The fruit quality is not as good as most of the other varieties we carry, thus it is not a recommended variety."

The best way to determine Winter-Mexican avocado quality, would be as Carlos mentioned, to find others who own this cultivar and have first hand knowledge/experience of it and/or, as Carlos also said, obtain a grafted cultivar (or budwood), plant it and grow it. The question would then be: is the fruit quality acceptable? But, first thing first, let's find out if fruit maturity is really Feb.-April.

Nevertheless, I can't sign off tonight before thanking and congratulating you guys, Zands, Carlos, Johnb51 ... Your help is really appreciated by myself and others for sure.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 03, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
They may be right on the quality. Usually varieties that have been around for a while don't propagate for a reason. If you talk to ECHO find out the flowering period. Since its a B flower may be a good pollinator for A.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 03, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
Anyone growing (Kona) Sharwil in Florida?  It might fill that spring gap you're looking for.  I'm growing it in a greenhouse which hits 100F quite a few times and it loves it with huge glossy leaves 10 1/2" long on yet a small tree.  Here's what they say about it - "The Sharwil season in West Hawaii generally runs from December to June."  http://www.ranchoaloha.com/hawaii-sharwil-worlds-best-avocado/ (http://www.ranchoaloha.com/hawaii-sharwil-worlds-best-avocado/)

Don't know if anyone caught a previous link I gave but I'd sure give Kathy or her husband a call at their nursery op.  Deep south Texas with a clime very similiar to yours.  RH is a little lower but the heat is way up there.   They are experimenting with budwood they brought back from Hawaii, Nishikawa was one of them.  http://www.riversendnursery.com/ (http://www.riversendnursery.com/)

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 03, 2013, 11:19:27 AM
Some one told me they have Sharwil in the Fruit and Spice Park in Homestead.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 04, 2013, 02:52:38 AM
Carlos, I just realized that I didn't call ECHO, but I will tomorrow. And, I'll make sure to ask them about the flowering period for the Winter-Mexican avocado cultivar, as you suggested. By the way, if it's called Winter-Mexican, it makes more sense that the fruit maturity period should be from Feb.-April, I guess will see.

Mark in Texas asked if anyone is growing the Sharwil (Kona) avocado cultivar in Florida. First of all, let me say that because of the contribution(s) of Mark and others alike, towards this endeavor/mission/goal, we may be at a tipping point. That is, we may find more than one quality avocado cultivar that will fill the avocado void in the winter months of Zone 10, that would be great. Now, according to the great article that Mark pointed to, it's too bad that Hawaii is not currently exporting the excellent Sharwil avocado cultivar to the mainland U.S.A. (just have some professional horticulturist(s) bring Sharwil-budwood to the mainland USA; unbelievable  >:()
But, according to the same article, there may be hope: "The Hawaii Avocado Association is working with the Hawaii Department of Agriculture and US Senator for Hawaii Dan Inouye’s office to open access for Sharwils to mainland markets." The article is dated April 18, 2011, I wonder if there's been any further progress on this. I think I might just follow your good idea and give Kathy and her husband a call, at Rivers End Nursery and see where that goes. Good job Mark, brilliant. Please keep your good research and ideas coming.

Carlos, about whether the Sharwil is planted in the Fruit and Spice Park, this past year I made an effort to study the winter behavior of all of the avocados planted there.
I ended the study when I was allowed by a F.&S.P. representative to pick off a tree, the last remaining, hanging avocado, of all the trees in the park, of the variety Lula.
This was approximately at the end of February, or the beginning of March (I think I put the exact date somewhere on this thread). And, I don't remember seeing an avocado tree labeled Sharwil. Now, of all of the avocado cultivars that they have planted there, some are not labeled, so I suppose it's possible. Anyways, I really wish the Sharwil avocado cultivar were here in the mainland USA. And, that it did fill the aocado void in South Florida's Zone 10; but you already know this.  :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 04, 2013, 11:04:47 PM
I wonder if Oscar has Sharwill?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: ScottR on June 04, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
Carlos, i have Kona Sharwil, need some wood? ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 05, 2013, 12:32:59 AM
Ah, Carlos, please allow/indulge/permit me to answer that question for you: " Y E S !" (I couldn't resist).

Seriously, I want to say, for the record, that Carlos is and has been an invaluable factor/force, in the search for a quality avocado cultivar that fills the avocado void in Zone 10, South Florida. No disrespect to others, your great contributions have been noted. But, without Carlos' help, in my opinion, I'm sure this endeavor would be that much more of a challenge. Personally, I consider myself, gladly, endebted to Carlos for his willful and crucial involvement/contibution/assistance/help, not only in this endeavor, but for years of playing such an important role in the progress of fruit tree propagation/development... in our South Florida area and elswhere. I am truly honored and privileged to have you, Carlos, involved in this noble collaboration. When we reach our goal (God willing), I'm sure that I'll miss all the excitement of this journey. With all due respect sir, you are a treasure. Thank you very much for everything you do.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 05, 2013, 07:42:08 AM
(Carlos, stop blushing.)

For real though, Carlos is THE MAN--THE AVOCADO MAN!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 05, 2013, 08:16:43 AM
Thanks for your kind words, but some of us have in our genetic code the insatiable desire to push boundaries. When this gets done we'll find a few more.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 07, 2013, 12:51:02 AM
ScottR and Intel415, both have mentioned that they have the Sharwil avocado, thank you for doing so. This is a reputable quality avocado that has a lot of promise for South Florida. And, may be a quality cultivar that can fill the winter-avocado-void that we have here.

From the information that ScottR and Intel415 have given, it looks like there's a nursery/entity in California that is propagating this cultivar.

ScottR, you put your location at Arroyo Grande, California, and that you have the Sharwil avocado. If you could please tell us more about it, like fruit production, season/time of year, quality and which nursery(ies)/entity(ies) has it, etc. it would really be appreciated. Thank you for the information, the more the merrier.

Intel415, whose given location is in Los Angeles, California, mentioned on another thread, started by Nullzero, that he also has the Sharwil. If you could also give please give your input on your experiences with this cultivar and how you came upon it, that would be great information to know. Then, we could speculate about how it would do in South Florida.

Although the Sharwil is reported to be already in the USA mainlland (California, to be specific), it's yet to be determined whether its distribution has reached Florida.
All this new information begs the question: Does anyone in Florida already have the Sharwil avocado cultivar?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: ScottR on June 07, 2013, 10:49:16 PM
Leooel, my tree has not fruited yet I grafted it to Mexican rootstock almost five years ago now! Growing pretty well and has taken frost 27f for 3hrs or so. I'm waiting! As far as where I obtained scion wood was Orange County CRFG scion exchange around the end of Jan. usually. I've never seen it I don't think any where in Nurseries but that doesn't mean that someone dosen't, I can't believe that someone is not propagating that variety in Ca. My location is close to the Pacific Ocean so we have cool summers, typically fog in mornings then clear in afternoons. Late Summer and early Fall are our warmest times besides weird off shore winds that can seen us into the 90F for a few days! Sorry I can't fell in more infor. for you. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on June 07, 2013, 10:51:44 PM
Sharwil is the main commercial variety here. I believe we're part of USA?  ::) :o
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on June 07, 2013, 11:41:26 PM
I got Sharwil  as a 1 gal from a CRFG OC fruit tree stand (2 years ago) at Green Scene. So far its still small, trying to baby it along to get some growth on it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 08, 2013, 12:34:08 AM
Nullzero, you're the man, thank you for the good news, please take care of that valuable, looked for, cultivar (O B One, you're our only hope). With all due respect, I'm really looking forward to learning how it behaves in our South Florida climate Zone(s). I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're the best. May you live a thousand years.
You made my day with this news, thank you.

Oscar, good point, Hawaii is an important part of the U.S.A. So, why isn't the Sharwil avocado tree commercially available in the mainland U.S.A? It seems that Sharwil scion budwood has been distributed for years to fruit tree enthusiasts. It's hard to believe that, in that time, some fruit tree nursery hasn't got its hands on it and commercialized this quality avocado cultivar.

The Following Article Sheds Some Light on Sharwil Propagation in the Mainland USA in 2006

Looking for Kona Sharwil Avocado Tree
Hello,
I discovered the Kona Sharwil avocado while searching on the web for the perfect small avocado tree to grow containerized in a greenhouse in upstate New York. Unfortunately, I have not found where one can purchase one. There was a post on this site last year by a person who had one, and I was wondering if anyone out your way knows of a nursery or farm that sells this wonderful tree or knows more about its growing habits, yield, etc. I tried responding to the thread from last year, but was told I could not respond to archived postings.
The following thread was started by Cecelia on July 21, 2006 at 1:33 pm PST
________________________________________
Source
Check with CRFG Orange Cty chapter.
The above followup was added by pitangadiego on July 21, 2006 at 8:52 pm PST.
________________________________________
 
CRFG OC
http://crfg.org/local/chapters/ca_oc.html (http://crfg.org/local/chapters/ca_oc.html)
The above followup was added by pitangadiego on July 23, 2006 at 3:07 pm PST.
________________________________________
Thanks for the information
Thank you to pitangadiego for the great website. I'm pretty sure I can find what I am looking for now.
The above follow up was added by Cecelia on July 23, 2006 at 7:13 pm PST.
________________________________________
Sharwil Avocado
Cecelia, we are lucky around here. We have the University of Ca Riverside as well as CRFG. I got my first "Kona" Sharwil from Julie Frink, the small one you see in the pics of the prior post. It was one of her grafted trees. I brought it home and while prepping the area I was going to plant it in, I broke off a limb with the water hose. I had some seedlings ready to be grafted and I used the limb I broke off and grafted two seedlings with the limb. Those two are now larger and taller than the original plant. The other Sharwils I have came from UCR. I was granted permission to cut some scions. I cut six and they all took.
From what I have learned they are not small plants. They are an average size avocado tree. However, what I am seeing from my personal experience is that the seedling or rootstock used is what controls the size of the plant more than the grafted scion.
To give you an idea of what i mean, I have two Carmen Hass growing on Dusa II clonal rootstock. The plants are identical in size and shape they almost look like twins. I have about ten Hass all grafted on to seedlings and everyone is different in size of trunk, height, bushiness etc. I "had" four Gillogly that were grafted on to seedlings they were all different. I kept the one that I thought had the best seedling rootstock traits for future experimentation this coming spring, boy that sounds evil.
One thing I can tell you, is that Sharwil is probably one of the best tasting cados I have ever tried.
Hope any of this helped, good luck.

The above followup was added by AlexG on July 23, 2006 at 8:33 pm PST.

"Sharwil" Avocado
I hate to play the pedant, but (for those who care about such things) the name of the cultivar is just plain "Sharwil". It originated in Australia, but became popular in Hawaii. Growers (or someone) there slapped "Kona" onto the name.
Frink is the CRFG's current avocado expert, and she speaks very highly of "Sharwil". While I don't want to put words in her mouth, I get the impression that she might rank "Sharwil" as her favorite: and I'm sure that she's tasted hundreds of cultivars at the U.C. South Coast Field Station avocado groves!
Cecilia,
I don't know of any other organization that propagates and sells "Sharwil" trees *other* than the CRFG Orange County chapter. (Although such nurseries may be out there somewhere in California, or possibly Florida.) However, CRFG Orange County sells their plants at local (Southern California) plant sales; they're not a mail-order nursery.
But perhaps if you wrote them and pleaded persuasively enough, and agreed to arrange for shipping yourself, they might be willing to sell and send you a tree.
The above followup was added by Ashok on July 23, 2006 at 11:30 pm PST.
________________________________________
Thanks to all for your help
Thank you to pitangadiego, William, AlexG and Ashok for the information on Sharwils. I located one source for them in Hawaii, but they are pricey due to the cost of containerizing and shipping them so far; and they are not yet old enough to send at this time. So . . . . if anyone knows an actual merchant who sells them stateside USA, I would be most grateful to receive that information. p.s. Holidays take 18 months to ripen. Does anyone know of a tasty, easy to grow (in a container), self-pollinating, fast ripening, long season (fruits mature over a long period of months) small-dwarfish variety? I dont want much, do I?
The above followup was added by Cecelia on July 29, 2006 at 4:25 am PST.
________________________________________
Please note that you are viewing posts from the vintage Cloudforest forum.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 08, 2013, 11:56:36 AM
I got Sharwil  as a 1 gal from a CRFG OC fruit tree stand (2 years ago) at Green Scene. So far its still small, trying to baby it along to get some growth on it.

Are you going to plant the Sharwil in Port St. Lucie?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2013, 01:54:43 AM
The reason Sharwil is not available for purchase in continental USA is that Hawaii is not cleared to export them. USDA gives fruitfly as excuse. But as most of you probably know, avocado is not a vector for fruit fly unless the fruit has been damaged. The real reason we're not able to export avocados from here is: California Avocado Growers Association. This is a politically very influential organization and they've done everything in their power to stop any exportation from here. I guess they know we would easily put them out of business! Water here is very cheap, unlike California, and avocados grow wild here. Hawaii could grow enough avocados to easily supply the whole continental USA. They would be way better and cheaper than California avocados. It's only politics that stops this from happening.
About Kona Sharwil, yes the folks in Kona like to add their name to every crop they grow. For example, coffee becomes Kona coffee, sugarloaf pineapple becomes Kona sugarloaf. But those aren't the real names, just advertising gimmicks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 09, 2013, 02:39:30 AM
Oscar, I think you've hit the nail on the head, as they say. There is definitely something wrong with this story/picture. It's upsetting and sad, when people/organizations play politics and interfere with supply and demand markets.

It seems that their political solution to the demand for Sharwil, is for those in the mainland to grow it themselves. In this way, there is a slow introduction/propagation of the cultivar, instead of a market disruptive avalanche invasion of Sharwil imports from Hawaii.

We already know that (thanks to Nullzero) the Sharwil avocado cultivar is already here in Florida (bless him for that).
Since avocado is such a popular fruit, I suppose there may be a good chance, that there are others in Florida that also have the Sharwil avocado.
If this is the case, it would really be helpful if they could come forth and comment on their location and experiences with the Sharwil avocado in Florida.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2013, 05:27:12 AM
Sharwil has been around for a long time. If California Growers Association wanted to grow it they would have done so already for several decades. But their strategy is completely fixated on only one cultivar and its variants: Hass. My guess is that Sharwil will grow and produce a lot better in Florida than in California, since it does so well in Hawaii.
Title: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 09, 2013, 10:47:21 AM
Hey ya'll, here's mah "Texas Sharwil".  She was grafted March 2012 and is growing like a weed.  The huge size of the leaves is interesting, they just seem to be getting bigger, a good thang.  :)  Some are 10 1/2" long.  At the rate this thing is growing I expect fruit next year.  I'm especially proud of the graft as I've never done a veneer before.

Wish me luck!

(http://s8.postimg.cc/s3aq68imp/Sharwil_Graft6_8_2013.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s3aq68imp/)

(http://s12.postimg.cc/t3j209bjt/Sharwil_June2013.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/t3j209bjt/)

(http://s21.postimg.cc/x0j0es6s3/Sharwil_June2013_2.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/x0j0es6s3/)

Oscar, you're spot on.  CALAVO is one strong lobbying group.  Doesn't take much of a lie for the politicians (and Dept. of Ag.) to cave into their bullying.  What's amazing is how they fought Chile and Mexican fruit for so long and then finally gave in.   They now call those south of the border growers "my partners".  Well, if the latino growers can be "partners", what's going on with the Hawaiians who indeed could supply tons of high quality cados?  Is the governor of Hawaii and his buds not doing their job?

Mark

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on June 09, 2013, 11:05:25 AM
Mark, what's a good source of Avo scions in the USA? Do you grow your own rootstock and if so, any particular one? Most suited for Texas?


Another Question I have for Avocado Experts, is what rootstock do you guys prefer to use?

I know that most commercial growers selling avo plants use Lula as rootstock for it's faster growth (but it's not that cold hardy - Upper/mid 20's?). Sometimes when shopping for plants, I ask the nurseries what rootstock the avo's are on, and I only get blank stares. 

I've been reading up on the races and was looking into maybe using a Mexican race for cold tolerance, like Mexicola or Winter Mexican. Do you guys foresee any problems with using it rather than the usual Lula?  Any Help in this area of how to choose a right  base plant for grafting will help. 

Thanks..:)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 09, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
First question you need to address: What is the source and quality of your irrigation water. Once you have that information you can start selecting root stock. Temperature is not everything.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on June 09, 2013, 06:07:19 PM
Carlos,

Water is from a pumped well source. What in the quality of the water am I looking for that can be detrimental? I know that it is hard water, and chlorinated, but i can request a report...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 09, 2013, 10:40:41 PM
Mark, what's a good source of Avo scions in the USA? Do you grow your own rootstock and if so, any particular one? Most suited for Texas?

I got my scions from Dr. MaryLu Arpaia.

My rootstock is grocery bought Florida cados.  It does extremely well with my hard well water, which suggests it is mostly W. Indies.

Not knowing your growing conditions, it's hard to recommend a particular rootstock.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 09, 2013, 10:48:33 PM
Florida is exporting Waldin Avocado seeds to many places is the world as the preferred root stock in places with hard, high sodium water. I recently communicated  with a guy in Peru that was looking for thousand of Waldin seedsto use as root stock to Hass.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on June 09, 2013, 11:29:57 PM
Carlos and Mark,

Thank you for the information... I've hard well water as well, chlorinated. Soil is usual Texas black clay. I believe salt/sodium content is something I should look into to see if that might be a problem for me. I'll do some more digging around and try to figure out what I can plant for root stock.

:) Thanks again guys,

GT
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 10, 2013, 08:25:14 AM
Carlos and Mark,

Thank you for the information... I've hard well water as well, chlorinated. Soil is usual Texas black clay. I believe salt/sodium content is something I should look into to see if that might be a problem for me. I'll do some more digging around and try to figure out what I can plant for root stock.

:) Thanks again guys,

GT


Carlos, heard from a local avocado grower that he has seen avocado trees growing in Cozumel where the salt water table was just below the surface.  I don't have to worry about Na, SAR, I have a ton of Mg and Ca bicarbs.

GT, send a water sample off to http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/ (http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/)  Everything is on that site - the forms, instructions, fees which are cheap for what you get.  Send water in a NEW bottle.  Might as well send a soil sample in the same box to save on postage.   :)

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 10, 2013, 09:10:12 AM
Mark I wonder if the Cozumel Avocados are grafted or seedlings. Cozumel is not a big island with a perimeter road. If you run into this person try to get a general location, I may be on a cruise this summer stopping there.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 10, 2013, 11:40:53 PM
Yamagata avocado is being promoted by serious nurseries as being the solution to the South Florida avocado void in the winter.

Sharwil avocado is slowly being distributed throughout the USA. So far, Mark in Texas, NullZero and others have mentioned that they have young/infant plants.
In order to learn about the time of year that Sharwil fruit ripens and its production, some time will have to pass. Sharwil has been around more than a decade, according to Oscar.

All this begs the question: Does anyone have an adult, producing, Sharwil or Yamagata avocado tree? If so, please be so kind as to give your Temperature Zone location and experience(s) with this/these cultivar(s), as this will help speed the adequate propagation of these varieties.
Title: Re: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: fruitlovers on June 11, 2013, 03:16:52 AM
Hey ya'll, here's mah "Texas Sharwil".  She was grafted March 2012 and is growing like a weed.  The huge size of the leaves is interesting, they just seem to be getting bigger, a good thang.  :)  Some are 10 1/2" long.  At the rate this thing is growing I expect fruit next year.  I'm especially proud of the graft as I've never done a veneer before.

Wish me luck!

Oscar, you're spot on.  CALAVO is one strong lobbying group.  Doesn't take much of a lie for the politicians (and Dept. of Ag.) to cave into their bullying.  What's amazing is how they fought Chile and Mexican fruit for so long and then finally gave in.   They now call those south of the border growers "my partners". Well, if the latino growers can be "partners", what's going on with the Hawaiians who indeed could supply tons of high quality cados?  Is the governor of Hawaii and his buds not doing their job?

Mark

Hi Mark, i don't know what's up with that. All i can tell you is that Hawaii seems to be last on the list for some unknown reason. USDA prefers to let in fruit from any Asian country into USA and then gives Hawaii a real hard time to send anything to continental USA. Ditto with the avocado scene. There is currently a second attempt to petition USDA to allow Hawaii Sharwils into rest of USA. Let's see if anything actually happens this time? Not holding my breath!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 11, 2013, 09:41:35 AM
Mark I wonder if the Cozumel Avocados are grafted or seedlings. Cozumel is not a big island with a perimeter road. If you run into this person try to get a general location, I may be on a cruise this summer stopping there.


Carlos, you and Bill really need to hook up.  He grafts and sells Mexican avocados (Top Tropicals type) in Devine, TX, southwest of San Antonio.  He was the one telling me about his Cozumel experience.  They call him the "Avocado Man" and have a yearly town avocado festival.    http://www.austinchronicle.com/food/2008-08-01/653763/ (http://www.austinchronicle.com/food/2008-08-01/653763/)

Have fun!
Title: Re: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 11, 2013, 09:47:43 AM
Hi Mark, i don't know what's up with that. All i can tell you is that Hawaii seems to be last on the list for some unknown reason. USDA prefers to let in fruit from any Asian country into USA and then gives Hawaii a real hard time to send anything to continental USA. Ditto with the avocado scene. There is currently a second attempt to petition USDA to allow Hawaii Sharwils into rest of USA. Let's see if anything actually happens this time? Not holding my breath!

My guess is there's some petty politics at play.  I'd buy Hawaii fruit any time.  Guess you need to have the pull of Del Monte to get something done.  If they can flood the mainland market with pineapple, why not avocado?  Perhaps we should get that nice young, honest and powerful man involved - Eric Holder?   ;D
Title: Re: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: zands on June 11, 2013, 11:58:12 AM
Hi Mark, i don't know what's up with that. All i can tell you is that Hawaii seems to be last on the list for some unknown reason. USDA prefers to let in fruit from any Asian country into USA and then gives Hawaii a real hard time to send anything to continental USA. Ditto with the avocado scene. There is currently a second attempt to petition USDA to allow Hawaii Sharwils into rest of USA. Let's see if anything actually happens this time? Not holding my breath!


My guess is there's some petty politics at play.  I'd buy Hawaii fruit any time.  Guess you need to have the pull of Del Monte to get something done.  If they can flood the mainland market with pineapple, why not avocado?  Perhaps we should get that nice young, honest and powerful man involved - Eric Holder?   ;D


Dole no longer operates pineapple plantations in Hawaii except for one last one they have tours at. Central America is a huge pineapple producer now and undercuts what Dole can do on (expensive) Hawaii
http://courses.wcupa.edu/rbove/eco338/030Trade-debt/Commodities/031007pineap.txt (http://courses.wcupa.edu/rbove/eco338/030Trade-debt/Commodities/031007pineap.txt)
Title: Re: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: fruitlovers on June 14, 2013, 02:06:27 AM
Hi Mark, i don't know what's up with that. All i can tell you is that Hawaii seems to be last on the list for some unknown reason. USDA prefers to let in fruit from any Asian country into USA and then gives Hawaii a real hard time to send anything to continental USA. Ditto with the avocado scene. There is currently a second attempt to petition USDA to allow Hawaii Sharwils into rest of USA. Let's see if anything actually happens this time? Not holding my breath!

My guess is there's some petty politics at play.  I'd buy Hawaii fruit any time.  Guess you need to have the pull of Del Monte to get something done.  If they can flood the mainland market with pineapple, why not avocado?  Perhaps we should get that nice young, honest and powerful man involved - Eric Holder?   ;D

Yes i think you're right, we don't have a powerful corporation behind the growing of avocados so can't push the exportation to mainland US  through so easily. Zands is right that Hawaii is not a big pineapple grower any longer. But he's wrong about Central America. Most of the pineapples nowadays are grown in either Phillippines or Thailand. Dole is outsourced now, just like most big American companies. BTW, i think that  outsourcing trend started under republican watch...you can't blame Eric for that big blunder! But yes, it would be nice to have the feds on our side to influence the USDA bureaucracy into letting Hawaii avocados into the mainland US.
Title: Re: The "Texas Sharwil"
Post by: zands on June 14, 2013, 06:19:33 AM
Hi Mark, i don't know what's up with that. All i can tell you is that Hawaii seems to be last on the list for some unknown reason. USDA prefers to let in fruit from any Asian country into USA and then gives Hawaii a real hard time to send anything to continental USA. Ditto with the avocado scene. There is currently a second attempt to petition USDA to allow Hawaii Sharwils into rest of USA. Let's see if anything actually happens this time? Not holding my breath!

My guess is there's some petty politics at play.  I'd buy Hawaii fruit any time.  Guess you need to have the pull of Del Monte to get something done.  If they can flood the mainland market with pineapple, why not avocado?  Perhaps we should get that nice young, honest and powerful man involved - Eric Holder?   ;D

Yes i think you're right, we don't have a powerful corporation behind the growing of avocados so can't push the exportation to mainland US  through so easily. Zands is right that Hawaii is not a big pineapple grower any longer. But he's wrong about Central America. Most of the pineapples nowadays are grown in either Philippines or Thailand. Dole is outsourced now, just like most big American companies. BTW, i think that  outsourcing trend started under republican watch...you can't blame Eric for that big blunder! But yes, it would be nice to have the feds on our side to influence the USDA bureaucracy into letting Hawaii avocados into the mainland US.

I am thinking you guys on the West Coast and Hawaii are getting pineapples from Philippines or Thailand as you mention while the East Coast and Florida where I am is getting the Central American pineapples which are vastly improved from what we (east Coast) used to get 20 years ago. We got these pale white un-ripe/never ripe Hawaii (I presume) pineapples. These days we get yellow fleshed and ripe or is at least destined to get nice and ripe from Central America. There are huge pineapple plantings in CentAmerica by the usual suspects, Dole and the others
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 15, 2013, 02:13:18 AM
Let me put this in this way, I'm getting a big itch for getting a grafted Lula avocado cultivar. Although I know it doesn't completly fill the avocado void that we have here in the South Florida winter, it does bridge the avocado season into the mango season. This is accomplished with the ripe fruit from a grafted Rosy-Gold mango tree.
At least, this is what happened this year. That is, when I picked the last Lula avocado fruit from a tree at a nearby fruit park in the beginning of March of this year, I was already eating mangos from my Rosy-Gold mango tree (March 1, 2013). Since the name of this thread is "Mango and/or Avocado 24/7," I believe the first goal of this thread, as suggested by this threads' namesake, has thus been accomplished, at least for this year. I guess I'll have to wait until next year to see if this same Lula-avocado and Rosy-Gold-mango 'bridge' happens again; very exciting.

By the way, two very late avocado cultivars in South Florida are Lula and Choquette. I'm gonna take an endulgement in expressing that I like to think of these two cultivars as being 'hellish' avocados, in the sense that:

Lula avocados, although of good eating quality, in my opinion, the exterior skin develops scab in the South Florida winter months of January, February and the beginning of March. The scab on the exterior of the fruit 'does not' affect the edible 'fruit-meat' on the inside, in my opinion/observations. Also, another positive thing about this cultivar is, that its seedling make a great rootstock!

Choquette avocados, I've noticed are very famous at ripening very late in the avocado (South Florida winter) season. But, the scab/problem on the exterior or the fruit, 'does' affect the 'fruit-meat' inside the avocado. This, therefore, considerably affects the eating quality of this cultivar. Thus, I then think of it as being more 'hellish' than the Lula avocado.

So, this is why I find myself being very attracted to the Lula avocado; and about buying one tree and planting it.

I think I should let it be known that I for one am still, very much, searching for an avocado cultivar that'll fill the S. Fla. winter avocado void.
As soon as it's found, with the important help of Carlos and others, I plan to purchase the tree and plant it (if it's not patented).
It's just that I find myself growing very fond of this Lula avocado variety. And, feeling that I'm being left behind, every time I read, in this forum, that a member has just gotten a potted, young, Lula avocado tree. It's like, I can't take it anymore, I've gotta get this tree.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on June 15, 2013, 08:13:19 AM
LEOOEL----

bsbulie likes lula a lot and so do I. It has high enough oil content. The fruits are not huge. I have a small one in a pot so far. A neighbor has a reliable lula tree that has lots of small fruits developing right now. I have eaten many lula from that tree. Go buy a 7-gallon so you get off to a good start

Lula is winter avocado and winter is when you like more heavy and oily food like the lula avocado
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 15, 2013, 09:22:08 AM
LEOOEL----

bsbulie likes lula a lot and so do I. It has high enough oil content. The fruits are not huge. I have a small one in a pot so far. A neighbor has a reliable lula tree that has lots of small fruits developing right now. I have eaten many lula from that tree. Go buy a 7-gallon so you get off to a good start

Lula is winter avocado and winter is when you like more heavy and oily food like the lula avocado

Lula is and has been grown commercially in the valley (far south Texas) for some time.  It does well in hot weather climes which they have.  It's also used by Texas nurserymen as a rootstock.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 15, 2013, 10:09:09 AM
I've come to have a high opinion of Lula also with its extended ripening period and very good flavor.  I now wish I had planted it instead of Oro Negro, but I bought into the O.N. hype!  Can somebody please top-work a tree for me?  (I wish I knew how.)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 15, 2013, 11:05:31 AM
Hey guys, thank you for all the helpful suggestions and encouragement. I'm now all giddy with excitement about getting a Lula avocado tree.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on June 15, 2013, 11:59:21 AM
Hey guys, thank you for all the helpful suggestions and encouragement. I'm now all giddy with excitement about getting a Lula avocado tree.

Let us know where you got it from when you plant it
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Bananimal on June 16, 2013, 07:50:58 AM
dupl post
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Bananimal on June 16, 2013, 08:00:35 AM
Let me put this in this way, I'm getting a big itch for getting a grafted Lula avocado cultivar. Although I know it doesn't completly fill the avocado void that we have here in the South Florida winter, it does bridge the avocado season into the mango season. This is accomplished with the ripe fruit from a grafted Rosy-Gold mango tree.
At least, this is what happened this year. That is, when I picked the last Lula avocado fruit from a tree at a nearby fruit park in the beginning of March of this year, I was already eating mangos from my Rosy-Gold mango tree (March 1, 2013). Since the name of this thread is "Mango and/or Avocado 24/7," I believe the first goal of this thread, as suggested by this threads' namesake, has thus been accomplished, at least for this year. I guess I'll have to wait until next year to see if this same Lula-avocado and Rosy-Gold-mango 'bridge' happens again; very exciting.

By the way, two very late avocado cultivars in South Florida are Lula and Choquette. I'm gonna take an endulgement in expressing that I like to think of these two cultivars as being 'hellish' avocados, in the sense that:

Lula avocados, although of good eating quality, in my opinion, the exterior skin develops scab in the South Florida winter months of January, February and the beginning of March. The scab on the exterior of the fruit 'does not' affect the edible 'fruit-meat' on the inside, in my opinion/observations. Also, another positive thing about this cultivar is, that its seedling make a great rootstock!

Choquette avocados, I've noticed are very famous at ripening very late in the avocado (South Florida winter) season. But, the scab/problem on the exterior or the fruit, 'does' affect the 'fruit-meat' inside the avocado. This, therefore, considerably affects the eating quality of this cultivar. Thus, I then think of it as being more 'hellish' than the Lula avocado.

So, this is why I find myself being very attracted to the Lula avocado; and about buying one tree and planting it.

I think I should let it be known that I for one am still, very much, searching for an avocado cultivar that'll fill the S. Fla. winter avocado void.
As soon as it's found, with the important help of Carlos and others, I plan to purchase the tree and plant it (if it's not patented).
It's just that I find myself growing very fond of this Lula avocado variety. And, feeling that I'm being left behind, every time I read, in this forum, that a member has just gotten a potted, young, Lula avocado tree. It's like, I can't take it anymore, I've gotta get this tree.


You gotta get a Lula.  Check out the pic - tree is 10 ft tall.  Holding lots of fruit.


(http://s9.postimg.cc/st0cxsj2z/lula_001.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/st0cxsj2z/)

(http://s9.postimg.cc/xsxt5qopn/lula_002.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xsxt5qopn/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 16, 2013, 08:15:18 PM
Hey guys, thank you for all the helpful suggestions and encouragement. I'm now all giddy with excitement about getting a Lula avocado tree.

Let us know where you got it from when you plant it

Will do Zands. I already know where I'll be getting it from, but as you said, I'll let you know after I plant it.
I really like your idea of a seven gallon Lula, since the 'hellish' ( ;D) location that I have in mind for it, requires a tall plant.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 16, 2013, 08:21:41 PM
Bananimal, thank you for the encouraging words and pictures.

Those Lula avocado pictures are sights for sore eyes, beautiful, nice job.

Full disclosure: several years back I wasn't such a fan of avocados. But now, I just wanna have wacamole everyday.
I wonder if this is the main reason why this fruit has gained such popularity.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 23, 2013, 09:44:59 PM
Carlos, or anyone else, do you think it's possible that one of these California avocados can be candidates to fill the S. FL avocado void (March - May)?

These are some of the avocado cultivars that I was able to put together, as potential candidates for producing ripe fruit in the South Florida winters.
Or, more specifically, for producing ripe avocados in the South Florida avocado void months of March through May. Most, if not all, are winter California avocados.

Cultivars:

Bacon,  Zutano, Santana, Fuerte, Ettinger and Mexicola Grande.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 23, 2013, 10:05:32 PM
Cross out Beacon and Mexicola Grande. They are early here.
 
The time these mature in California are totally different in So. Florida.  I have Fuerte growing now  we wound know maybe next year.

This has posibilities http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlos-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlos-avocado.html)  but may be an alternate bearer.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 24, 2013, 01:37:24 AM
Carlos, OK, that leaves the following,

California winter avocados that are potential candidates to fill the S. FL winter avocado void (March - May):

'Zutano', 'Santana', 'Fuerte' and 'Ettinger'

If someone is growing these avocado cultivars in Florida, it would be really appreciated if they could step up and please comment on their experiences with them.

By the way Carlos, that Don Carlito (nice name  :) ) has some wonderful qualities, as you've mentioned. It would really be nice if it was a reliable yearly producer of fruit.
In that way, you would have finally found the first, sought after, quality avocado cultivar that significantly fills the S. FL winter avocado void.

Whatever the case, I'd like to congratulate you and say good job Carlos, you're/we're close, I can feel it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 24, 2013, 07:36:55 PM
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 24, 2013, 10:45:47 PM
OK, the new list for potential avocado cultivars that could fill the winter S. FL avocado void are (in order of highest potential to the lowest):

1. 'Winter-Mexican' (ECHO Nursery questions the quality of this cultivar)
2. 'Fuerte'
3. 'Yamagata'
4. 'Zutano,' 'Santana,' 'Ettinger,' and 'Sharwil.'

It would really be helpful if we started to hear from those with knowledge/experience with these avocado cultivars; for example: whether the fruit ripens in the beginning-part, the middle or the end-part, of winter.

Hey sorry to hear about that Winter-Mexican arriving cooked. It kind'a breaks my heart, specially when you think it has such a good potential to fill the S.FL avocado void. Sounds like there's some major problem with the 'Shipping & Handling' at Top-Tropicals (Darn it).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 25, 2013, 08:33:49 AM
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.

They will replace it, right?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 25, 2013, 08:47:54 AM
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.


They will replace it, right?


No they won't.  I ordered a Nishikawa which arrived with a butchered rootball.  Needless to say it died.  I fought with customer service until I gave up.

If you want quality stock which arrives in beautiful condition you can't beat Pine Island nursery or Clifton's, the latter being a bit pricey. http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top (http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on June 25, 2013, 11:37:50 AM
You may want to add Winter Mexican to the list. I order one from Top Tropicals but arrived cooked. I think WM will mature around March-April.


They will replace it, right?


No they won't.  I ordered a Nishikawa which arrived with a butchered rootball.  Needless to say it died.  I fought with customer service until I gave up.

If you want quality stock which arrives in beautiful condition you can't beat Pine Island nursery or Clifton's, the latter being a bit pricey. [url]http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top[/url] ([url]http://www.buyplantsonline.com/avocadotrees.html#top[/url])


$50 for a tree, and they don't guarantee it will arrive in good condition?  What a way to run a nursery business!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 25, 2013, 12:54:31 PM
I will give Top Tropicals the opportunity to do the right thing. I have contacted them and send them pictures.   In the mean time if anyone has Winter Mexican please let me know I need bud wood to top work a tree.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 30, 2013, 07:00:55 PM
Carlos, I'm still upset about the Winter Mexican avocado tree that arrived 'baked' from Top Tropicals.

If you can come to an agreement with Top Tropicals to obtain another tree, I'd like to volunteer, go pick it up myself and bring it back to you at no charge.
I'm very familiar with the area (Fort Myers, FL) due to family ties I have there.

If I can be of any assistance in this, please let me know.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 02, 2013, 02:28:02 AM
Updated list of potential quality avocado cultivars that could fill the S. FL. avocado winter void of March-June (inferior cultivars of previous list have been removed):

Fuerte
Pear shaped fruit with a characteristic neck, though it can vary from elongated with a long narrow neck to round with a wide and short neck. Its skin is thin, green, moderately bright, flexible texture with a somewhat grainy surface. Medium size to large (170-500 grams). Medium to large seed with 75-77% flesh available. Excellent quality flesh, tasty and nutty flavor
In California this variety ripens from March-April

Yamagata
According to Top Tropicals Nursery in Florida, U.S.A.
Very early March-July
Production: No information available for Florida
Tree: vigorous and upright, dark green foliage
Fruit: large, oval-pyriform with a curved neck
Color: Green
Cold Tolerance: Medium to low
Yamagata variety is very early. It ripens in Florida in March-April when no other varieties produce fruit. Can ripen over a long season, from March through July. Fruit is large, with a small seed and green skin. Flesh green, smooth, flavor nutty. It's a very fine, gourmet Hawaiian avocado named for agriculture specialist Heiji Yamagata, who develeoped it. According to University of Hawaii consumer poll, Yamagata was selected as one of the best Hawaiian cultivars. Medium to low cold hardiness. Very vigorous and upright growing tree.
Type: W
Place of Origin: Hawaii

Sharwil
Sharwil avocados are usually smaller sized and much more pear-shaped as compared to various other types. This particular type weighs about in between 200 – 370 g and it has a small seed. Because of its especially rich, nutty flavor, the Sharwil is usually promoted like a gourmet avocado. This particular variety comes into season from late April to August, across the east coast of Australia.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Ryan on July 02, 2013, 03:39:20 AM
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 02, 2013, 04:29:52 AM
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.


Yamagata rated quite higher than Sharwill in public opinion poll, in fact Yamagata came out as #1.
In Honolulu, 13 chefs participated in the survey. Generally, as did the Kona chefs, the O‘ahu chefs indicated
a preference for ‘Linda’, ‘Kahaluu’, and ‘Malama’ over
imported ‘Hass’ (Table 2), with ‘Sharwil’ ranked with
‘Hass’. In terms of peeling characteristics, however,
‘Sharwil’ scored high with these chefs.
The results of the consumer test are reported in Table
3. The additional cultivar ‘Yamagata’ gathered wide
approval among consumers, gaining the highest scores
for most of the characteristics surveyed. ‘Sharwil’ and
‘Kahaluu’ were generally ranked low. ‘Linda’, ‘Malama’,
and ‘Hass’ were generally graded equivalently.

Read the whole report here:http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf (http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/EI-15.pdf)

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 02, 2013, 08:02:28 AM
Some of these so called test only show the preference of a few people. Avocado taste is all a matter of personal preferences. Just to give you an example. There is a little known WI avocado called Arue. One web site that  trashes the fruit. It says basically it is horrible with lots of fiber etc......
I own it and find it acceptable, I detect ZERO fiber, and yes the taste is bland but for guacamole you can make it work. This is the first fruit that matures in the year, I ate some this year as early as April.
Is all very subjective.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 02, 2013, 08:51:46 AM
Some thoughts from an individual who eats a lot of sharwil and yamagata avocados. If you can have only one, my vote would be sharwil (for flavor, texture/consistency). I grow both, along with many other varieties, in an effort to have fruit year round. For now I still purchase a lot, while I wait for my trees to come to full maturity. I think they're both good & worth growing, yet would easily choose sharwil as the winner.

I have a Sharwil I grafted onto a Florida pit.  It is very vigorous.  I am surprised by the huge leaves on a 3' X 3' tree.  Some of them are up to  13.5" long by 4" wide! Is this normal?  Also, have heard the tree is rather small if left unpruned.  True?

Can't believe you guys aren't shipping Sharwil to the mainland!  I'd give my left n*t to try one in anticipation of getting fruit next year.

Reading off a cado characteristic's list done by the U. of Riverside (I believe) Sharwill is a 'B' type, rated 'XLNT' in flavor, 8-16 oz., green, ovoid, medium skin, fruits Feb-Nov., Tree size - small, holds well on tree, small seed, peels easily.

Mark   
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 02, 2013, 09:36:16 PM
Ryan, for someone who eats a lot of Sharwil and Yamagata avocados, your comments do carry weight. According to you, the Sharwil is superior to the Yamagata, thank you so much for your first hand, valuable input.

Oscar, I was amazed, in the last list, after the inferior quality avocados were removed, we were left with three cultivars, one each from Australia, Hawaii and California.
I swear I noticed this after I posted the list. I was like, oh my, this is a three way race between Austrlia, Hawaii and California, as to which location of origin of these cultivars, will fill the S.-FL-Winter-Avocado-Void. Nevertheless, I have to admit that although I do find this interesting, it was in no way intentional; I'm very fond of all three (capitalist...  :) )  places.

Oscar, regarding the Yamagata, I must say that from what I've gathered, I've become very fond of this cultivar. But, I have to be honest and say that I worry about its thin skin (not so much about its peeling inadequacy), in that it may be counterproductive as far as producing a quality avo. fruit in the winter. But, I admit that I'm just speculating, we will not know if Yamagata will fill the S-F-W-A-V until someone grows it to fruition here in S. Florida. Thank you Oscar for your valuable input.

Mark, if it's true what the U. of Riverside says, that you could have Sharwil avocado from February-November, then you are a very lucky man, I wish you the best of luck.
And Mark, be careful what you wish for...  ;D But seriously, thank you very much for that uplifting information. It seems that the Sharwil stays alive as a very possible candidate for the S-F-W-A-V. Again, thank you so much and please keet it coming.

Carlos, I was blown away with what you said, that the earliest ripe fruit of the year, in S. FL, is that from the Arue avocado cultivar. You said you ate some this year, as early as April. So, if someone in S. FL had, say, Monroe, Lula and Arue, that would take care of the winter months of January, February and April. These cultivars are of acceptable quality, they are not horrific, or as I like to say 'hellish.' If Arue is a reliable producer, then I guess one could say that the S-F-W-A-V is definitely getting filled; with just a few holes here and there. Now, if one or more of the avocados in the previous list (Fuerte, Yamagata, Sharwil) also filled a portion of the 'SFWAV,'  then anyone in S. FL, even those with small yards could say: I want one or two avocado-christmas-trees with these 3-6 cultivars on them, and then have avocado year round.
It reminds me of what you've said, "Once we fill the 'SFWAV' we'll keep on going and look for a few more." This is very good, impressive news, thank you, you're the master.

Carlos, I'm impressed and humbled that we're getting assistance from far away friends in (Hawaii, California, Texas...) helping us fill the S-F-W-A-V. Thank you very much guys, it's greatly appreciated. We're all crazy about avocados and I like that a lot, and also being a part of this, along with everyone else.

Thank you all for all the input. We're really getting somewhere here, and it's really appreciated, please keep it coming.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 02, 2013, 09:48:33 PM
Just saying to CT and LEEOLEL -------  Got a 3 gallon Pine Island Hass (must be California Hass?) at my nearby Home Depot. I am going to give it the best nutrition to make it overcome scabbing etc. Got a great beautiful upward extended 7 gallon lula avocado from cookie monster.

Now I have the avocados I want. Lula for fall-winter and Hass getting ripe about August-September
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 02, 2013, 10:02:53 PM
Zands, you have a lot of the bases covered, congratulations.

I have the Hass, it's very productive with no disease problems, so far. And, I'm planning to get the Lula. What I like about the Lula is that I consider it to be a quality avocado. When the winter comes, it protects the quality of the flesh inside. And, this year, I was able to pick the last Lula off a tree on March 12! (if I remember correctly). It's like this cultivar is saying: Give me all the winter cold that you've got and yes, I may get scab on the outside of the skin, but I'm gonna protect the quality of the flesh inside, so you can enjoy eating the inside flesh of the fruit. I know this sounds like I'm hearing voices of Lula talking to me, but it's one way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 02, 2013, 10:18:17 PM
LEOOEL----

Carlos has an orchard so is selling to the masses who blindly will demand (and will only pay for in our free market system) the un-blemished and un-scabbed

For the home grower who supplies intelligent nutrition to his trees it will work out just fine. Lula goes on and on and I have seen and eaten lula from neighboring trees in January and early February in Broward County Florida
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 02, 2013, 11:36:24 PM
Zands, that's interesting, since you're further north in Broward County, FL, USA, the Lula avocados seem to stay on the tree until the beginning of February.

Here in Miami-Dade County, FL, USA, since we're further south and a bit closer to the equator/tropics, the Lula avocados seem to stay on the tree until late February.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 03, 2013, 06:50:20 AM
Some of these so called test only show the preference of a few people. Avocado taste is all a matter of personal preferences. Just to give you an example. There is a little known WI avocado called Arue. One web site that  trashes the fruit. It says basically it is horrible with lots of fiber etc......
I own it and find it acceptable, I detect ZERO fiber, and yes the taste is bland but for guacamole you can make it work. This is the first fruit that matures in the year, I ate some this year as early as April.
Is all very subjective.

Yes ofcourse taste tests are subjective. I think that's true by definition. If you look at results in this test from chefs, for example, it's very different what public decided: chefs thought Kahaluu to be the best and public rated it much lower. But because taste tests are subjective it doesn't mean they are not valuable. Big companies in fact rely on them to test their products before manufacturing and marketing. Also if a very large group of people find an avocado to be of superior taste you can bet your $$$ that cultivar will sell very well and be widely accepted.
About Sharwil vs. Yamagata, for a commercial variety Sharwil is quite good quality. But when compared with other cultivars that may not be as productive or have as good a shelf life, or skin is thinner, then it is not the best tasting of avocados. Commercially selected cultivars are often not of highest taste caliber because the mass marketer is looking at a lot of other criteria besides taste. In fact taste is usually not considered the most important criteria to them, otherwise we wouldn't have such terrible tasting produce on the market shelves.
Mark, it's not true that Sharwil is a small tree if left unpruned. The one i have is just as large as any of the other cultivars planted next to it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 03, 2013, 08:37:02 AM
Mark, if it's true what the U. of Riverside says, that you could have Sharwil avocado from February-November, then you are a very lucky man, I wish you the best of luck.

And Mark, be careful what you wish for...  ;D But seriously, thank you very much for that uplifting information. It seems that the Sharwil stays alive as a very possible candidate for the S-F-W-A-V. Again, thank you so much and please keet it coming.


Thanks.  Don't know if you've seen this video on Sharwil but it's worth mentioning.  Also, I did some checking on what kind of climes Sharwil will tolerate and it seems pretty broad.  For instance, it grows/crops well in the hotter areas of Australia.
 The Appetizing Avocado (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv7flUNn3IE#)

Wow, now this is interesting!  New rules would ease restrictions on Sharwil avocados export
http://westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news/local-features/new-rules-would-ease-restrictions-sharwil-avocados-export.html (http://westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news/local-features/new-rules-would-ease-restrictions-sharwil-avocados-export.html)

Good luck with your quest.

Down here in Texas we'd say "Carlos es El Jefe"!  (The chief, ya'll)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 03, 2013, 08:49:32 AM
About Sharwil vs. Yamagata, for a commercial variety Sharwil is quite good quality. But when compared with other cultivars that may not be as productive or have as good a shelf life, or skin is thinner, then it is not the best tasting of avocados.

To piggyback on that comment if you can get a avocado tree that is productive and bears fruit that markets well (turns black), stores and ships well (because of certain factors including skin thickness - leather), and tastes fairly good then you have a winner - Hass.  What makes me mad is how brainwashed the public is when it comes to thinking that Hass is superior to other varieties, reason why you only see Hass in supermarkets and find super conglomerates that try to monopolize the market - CALAVO comes to mine.   I buy a mailorder box from time to time from Morro Bay growers and they are excellent.  Why?  Because they are tree ripened.  I'm in the heart of commercial peach growers and the orchards sell tree ripened peaches.  If you've ever had one that stays on the tree longer than a typical market peach it's almost as good as a good mango.

Sharwil doesn't stay small?   :o  Looks like I've got my work cut out for me.  PGR's and hand pruners, yah sah!   If I can keep my trees under 12' tall, I'm OK.

Quote
Commercially selected cultivars are often not of highest taste caliber because the mass marketer is looking at a lot of other criteria besides taste. In fact taste is usually not considered the most important criteria to them, otherwise we wouldn't have such terrible tasting produce on the market shelves.

Bingo....
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 03, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 03, 2013, 01:19:10 PM
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.

I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 03, 2013, 03:25:41 PM
Zands, you have a lot of the bases covered, congratulations.

I have the Hass, it's very productive with no disease problems, so far. And, I'm planning to get the Lula. What I like about the Lula is that I consider it to be a quality avocado. When the winter comes, it protects the quality of the flesh inside. And, this year, I was able to pick the last Lula off a tree on March 12! (if I remember correctly). It's like this cultivar is saying: Give me all the winter cold that you've got and yes, I may get scab on the outside of the skin, but I'm gonna protect the quality of the flesh inside, so you can enjoy eating the inside flesh of the fruit. I know this sounds like I'm hearing voices of Lula talking to me, but it's one way of looking at it.

You have a Hass, not the Hass  8) because >>>>
What Hass do you have? California Hass or the Florida Hass?  I have eaten lots of lula avocados from neighbors tree and liked them all plus I like the smaller size of the fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 03, 2013, 03:41:57 PM
Talking about (ca) Hass, I just saw in Home Depot at Kendall Drive and 127 Ave in Miami some nice Hass specimens, Pine Island Trees with their usual high quality Pine Island has to offer.
They most be in other stores in the area.  I have not been able to see a Hass tree holding fruit in So. Dede. I know they are out there.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 03, 2013, 06:57:23 PM
Talking about (ca) Hass, I just saw in Home Depot at Kendall Drive and 127 Ave in Miami some nice Hass specimens, Pine Island Trees with their usual high quality Pine Island has to offer.
They most be in other stores in the area.  I have not been able to see a Hass tree holding fruit in So. Dede. I know they are out there.

I saw them at Boca Raton HD on Glades Rd and the HD in Coral Springs at Atlantic Ave.
Hass has good name recognition, and Pine Island sure is pumping them out.

That Boca HD is very large and a larger nursery area than most HDs
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 03, 2013, 10:10:16 PM
Just saying to CT and LEEOLEL -------  Got a 3 gallon Pine Island Hass (must be California Hass?) at my nearby Home Depot. I am going to give it the best nutrition to make it overcome scabbing etc. Got a great beautiful upward extended 7 gallon lula avocado from cookie monster.


Zands. My understanding of scab is a fungus that is air born floats in the air. Not much can be done by way of nutrition. I have said before not sure where in this forum, that scab may be more prevalent in places with a lot of avocado trees.   Humidity has a lot to do with it. A little copper, specially the new solutions would come in handy. I would not say to someone don't plant a Lula or Monroe because of scab, Just if your area is susceptible you need to do something, to my knowledge nutrition alone will not do it. My trees are well feed and I have gotten attacked in the last two years.  Is not just a cosmetic issue, fruit with scab will begin dropping . One row of Monroe was not spayed early this year and I have hundreds of egg size fruit on the ground caused by the scab.

Well considering what is happening with Laurel Wilt, scab is a non-event
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 03, 2013, 10:55:18 PM
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.

I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.

Don't know what you mean by Kona avocado? There is no cultivar here with that name. I have Choquette here and it's one of the poorest quality wise. As far as commercial types Sharwil in my opinion is a whole lot better tasting than Hass. I consider Hass to be very mediocre quality in the taste department. Another good thing about Sharwil is that the fruits can stay on the tree for very long time even when fully ripe. If you plant Sharwil next to a Green Gold you will get excellent pollination and great fruit set. Green Gold is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 04, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
Just saying to CT and LEEOLEL -------  Got a 3 gallon Pine Island Hass (must be California Hass?) at my nearby Home Depot. I am going to give it the best nutrition to make it overcome scabbing etc. Got a great beautiful upward extended 7 gallon lula avocado from cookie monster.


Zands. My understanding of scab is a fungus that is air born floats in the air. Not much can be done by way of nutrition. I have said before not sure where in this forum, that scab may be more prevalent in places with a lot of avocado trees.   Humidity has a lot to do with it. A little copper, specially the new solutions would come in handy. I would not say to someone don't plant a Lula or Monroe because of scab, Just if your area is susceptible you need to do something, to my knowledge nutrition alone will not do it. My trees are well feed and I have gotten attacked in the last two years.  Is not just a cosmetic issue, fruit with scab will begin dropping . One row of Monroe was not spayed early this year and I have hundreds of egg size fruit on the ground caused by the scab.

Well considering what is happening with Laurel Wilt, scab is a non-event

Thanks for all that Carlos! I was unaware of that scab problem for Lula and others. Consumers might reject such fruits so you like Monroe better, also Monroe is larger. Now that I think about it I have eaten lula fruits with scab and they are still good fruit. Scab hurts fruit production but not taste.

I have a colloidal silver generator and will be trying this silver out, versus fungal problems such as the leaf rust I get on my small fig trees. I guess Lula scab too when it rears it's ugly head
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 04, 2013, 06:29:13 PM
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.

I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.

Don't know what you mean by Kona avocado? There is no cultivar here with that name. I have Choquette here and it's one of the poorest quality wise. As far as commercial types Sharwil in my opinion is a whole lot better tasting than Hass. I consider Hass to be very mediocre quality in the taste department. Another good thing about Sharwil is that the fruits can stay on the tree for very long time even when fully ripe. If you plant Sharwil next to a Green Gold you will get excellent pollination and great fruit set. Green Gold is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap.

You must be eating a lot of Chilean Hass because in my opinion they cant compare. The choquette and catalina I'm talking about are from Homestead, FL, we get them during their season. The choquette grown here in California are not very good. I have not had the Gold Green yet but Julie Frink tell me its way too oily for her taste. We call the Shawil Kona.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on July 04, 2013, 06:59:30 PM
Choquette season corresponds with FL dry season, so perhaps this is why its taste has high marks. While the Hawaii Choquettes probably get 2-3 times more moisture during fruit development and ripening.

I would think CA avocados will always taste better on average vs Hawaii (minus the Kona side) or Florida. Since the water can be controlled which in theory will lead to more concentrated flavor and higher oil content.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 04, 2013, 08:02:59 PM
Zands you said:

I have a colloidal silver generator and will be trying this silver out, versus fungal problems such as the leaf rust I get on my small fig trees. I guess Lula scab too when it rears it's ugly head

Excuse my ignorance, what do you do with the colloidal silver generator, sounds like science fiction?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on July 04, 2013, 08:54:11 PM
Zands you said:

I have a colloidal silver generator and will be trying this silver out, versus fungal problems such as the leaf rust I get on my small fig trees. I guess Lula scab too when it rears it's ugly head

Excuse my ignorance, what do you do with the colloidal silver generator, sounds like science fiction?

Its a device used to make colloidal silver using electric currents. Not as complex as one would think.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 05, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
Mark in Texas, very good informative video in Hawaii. The Sharwil avocado tree in the video is at 1,300 feet, ripens from December to May, of excellent quality and the owner calls it the best avocado in the world! Now that's what I call an informative video, thanks so much for posting it Mark.

I'm so glad that Nullzero has a Sharwil avocado tree. As far as I know, he's the only person in Florida that has it. Its intriguing and exciting to wait and learn how this avocado cultivar will behave in S. Florida, specially the time of year for fruit riping, quantity of production and quality; Nullzero, Godspeed and best wishes for success.

Due to the information that has been gathered so far, Sharwil is an important contender, and still in the running, as a potential candidate to fill the 'South-Florida-Winter-Acovado-Void' ('SFWAV').

Oscar, I like the fact that the Sharwil can grow large, although I hope Mark can keep it smaller as he prefers, thanks for the info.
Also, now that you mention it, although I do like the Hass avocados from my tree, I don't remember going crazy over it either. Nevertheless, this tree and its fruit are, for me, a keeper.

Carlos, as you mentioned, I hope you can get Sharwil budwood from someone (Mark-In-Texas, Nullzero or others) during the months of December-February that you specified, in order to top work a tree, great idea and great effort. What comes to mind as a good method of shipping, is next-day-overnight-delivery, to ensure the quality/potency of the budwood at the time of delivery. If the Sharwil budwood cannot be delivered to you in person, I volunteer to take care of S&H.

Also, I have the Hass avocado. Whether it's a California or Florida Hass, as Zands calls it, I don't know. It's a young tree and it's full of full sized, unripe avocados right now.
Carlos, if you want to pass by and take a look at it, please let me know.

JF, since you say the Yamagata has a pretty average taste, perhaps it has a lot to do with the location where this variety is grown, thanks for the info.

Colloidal silver generator? Yeah, it does sound like Sci-Fi (LOL). I also haven't heard about it, but it sure sounds great.  ;D (Sorry, couldn't help it)

Thank you everybody involved, for all the great information, it's very helpful in this endeavor and very appreciated, please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 05, 2013, 04:47:41 AM
If I can get bud wood I can Top work a tree in So. Florida to see how it does. December-February would be the time.

I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.

Don't know what you mean by Kona avocado? There is no cultivar here with that name. I have Choquette here and it's one of the poorest quality wise. As far as commercial types Sharwil in my opinion is a whole lot better tasting than Hass. I consider Hass to be very mediocre quality in the taste department. Another good thing about Sharwil is that the fruits can stay on the tree for very long time even when fully ripe. If you plant Sharwil next to a Green Gold you will get excellent pollination and great fruit set. Green Gold is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap.

You must be eating a lot of Chilean Hass because in my opinion they cant compare. The choquette and catalina I'm talking about are from Homestead, FL, we get them during their season. The choquette grown here in California are not very good. I have not had the Gold Green yet but Julie Frink tell me its way too oily for her taste. We call the Shawil Kona.

I've never had Chilean Hass, although i saw them growing everywhere in Chile, I'm talking  strictly about California Hass, really poor quality compared to what we have here. I've lived in California as long as i've lived here, eaten lots and lots of avocados in both places.  I'm a very big avo fanatic, have to have one or two every day. Also worked in a produce store in California and got to taste a lot of different cultivars there. Hawaii is definitely tops when it comes to avocados. Florida may beat us when it comes to mangos but both California and Florida pale in comparison to avocados found here. They are not only very high quality, but omnipresent, and a lot cheaper than in the lower 48. Also avocados grow wild here. There are many trees growing wild right along the roads = free for the picking.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 05, 2013, 08:06:22 AM
Zands you said:

I have a colloidal silver generator and will be trying this silver out, versus fungal problems such as the leaf rust I get on my small fig trees. I guess Lula scab too when it rears it's ugly head

Excuse my ignorance, what do you do with the colloidal silver generator, sounds like science fiction?


Colloidal silver is supposed to be anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. I know my figs will be getting leaf rust as we get more rain. I will test it on them. Silver is next to copper (a known anti-fungal) in the periodic table and both are in the same grouping as gold. So maybe silver can do some of what copper does but more gently and not harmful to people who spray it, accumulating in the orchards soil to the point where some orchards have to be abandoned
http://silverpuppy.com/ (http://silverpuppy.com/)  colloidal silver generator

H2O2 should be a good anti-fungal. I will try that one too in low concentrations. You can buy 35% food grade H2O2 at reasonable prices when you buy a gallon on up. The stuff in the drugstore is 3%

How much Hydrogen Peroxide? - Hydroponic Growing - Grasscity Forums
forum.grasscity.com › ... › Hydroponic Growing‎
Aug 10, 2010 - I have a DWC system and am wondering how much Hydrogen Peroxide I should use, per gallon of water. I also need to know what strength of ...
Using Hydrogen Peroxide to Treat and Prevent Root Rot ...
Watering with H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) - Advanced Growing ...
How much 35% H2O2 do I use per litre or gallon. - Indoor ...
Dec 1, 2010
May 23, 2010
Oct 2, 2007
Using Hydrogen Peroxide In A Hydroponics System | Hydroponic ...
www.modularhydro.com (http://www.modularhydro.com) › Resource Library › Hydroponic Articles‎
Three percent hydrogen peroxide may be added at up to three milliliters per liter (2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower ...

Ways to use Hydrogen Peroxide in the Garden
http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/peroxide-garden.html (http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/peroxide-garden.html)

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 05, 2013, 09:22:12 AM
Carlos, as you mentioned, I hope you can get Sharwil budwood from someone (Mark-In-Texas, Nullzero or others) during the months of December-February that you specified, in order to top work a tree, great idea and great effort. What comes to mind as a good method of shipping, is next-day-overnight-delivery, to ensure the quality/potency of the budwood at the time of delivery. If the Sharwil budwood cannot be delivered to you in person, I volunteer to take care of S&H.

I have heard that budwood stays good if refrigerated for up to 6 weeks.  I had some 6 week old sticks and they still looked like they would have done fine.  I eventually sent them to a friend.  Overnight is not a necessary expense especially during the cooler months.  FedX will do or USPS Priority mail.  I'd be glad to share some wood with Carlos in late winter.  As long as I don't continue to napalm my cados with stuff like Kelthane they'll have some leaves!  Gonna dump that nasty stuff.   I have learned to test any kind of pesticide, organic or synthetic, on a flagged branch first that contains both very young leaves and older hardened off leaves.  Just got in THE silver bullet miticide - Forbid4F.  1/8 tsp/gallon!

Good luck,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 05, 2013, 03:02:48 PM


I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.
[/quote]

Don't know what you mean by Kona avocado? There is no cultivar here with that name. I have Choquette here and it's one of the poorest quality wise. As far as commercial types Sharwil in my opinion is a whole lot better tasting than Hass. I consider Hass to be very mediocre quality in the taste department. Another good thing about Sharwil is that the fruits can stay on the tree for very long time even when fully ripe. If you plant Sharwil next to a Green Gold you will get excellent pollination and great fruit set. Green Gold is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap.
[/quote]

You must be eating a lot of Chilean Hass because in my opinion they cant compare. The choquette and catalina I'm talking about are from Homestead, FL, we get them during their season. The choquette grown here in California are not very good. I have not had the Gold Green yet but Julie Frink tell me its way too oily for her taste. We call the Shawil Kona.
[/quote]

I've never had Chilean Hass, although i saw them growing everywhere in Chile, I'm talking  strictly about California Hass, really poor quality compared to what we have here. I've lived in California as long as i've lived here, eaten lots and lots of avocados in both places.  I'm a very big avo fanatic, have to have one or two every day. Also worked in a produce store in California and got to taste a lot of different cultivars there. Hawaii is definitely tops when it comes to avocados. Florida may beat us when it comes to mangos but both California and Florida pale in comparison to avocados found here. They are not only very high quality, but omnipresent, and a lot cheaper than in the lower 48. Also avocados grow wild here. There are many trees growing wild right along the roads = free for the picking.
[/quote]

What's the big deal if they grow wild if no body wants them.... and I'm sorry Oscar California avocado are as well known ,world wide, as Florida mangos.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 05, 2013, 04:34:38 PM
Carlos, as you mentioned, I hope you can get Sharwil budwood from someone (Mark-In-Texas, Nullzero or others) during the months of December-February that you specified, in order to top work a tree, great idea and great effort. What comes to mind as a good method of shipping, is next-day-overnight-delivery, to ensure the quality/potency of the budwood at the time of delivery. If the Sharwil budwood cannot be delivered to you in person, I volunteer to take care of S&H.

I have heard that budwood stays good if refrigerated for up to 6 weeks.  I had some 6 week old sticks and they still looked like they would have done fine.  I eventually sent them to a friend.  Overnight is not a necessary expense especially during the cooler months.  FedX will do or USPS Priority mail.  I'd be glad to share some wood with Carlos in late winter.  As long as I don't continue to napalm my cados with stuff like Kelthane they'll have some leaves!  Gonna dump that nasty stuff.   I have learned to test any kind of pesticide, organic or synthetic, on a flagged branch first that contains both very young leaves and older hardened off leaves.  Just got in THE silver bullet miticide - Forbid4F.  1/8 tsp/gallon!

Good luck,
Mark

I had Jan Boyce bud wood in the refrigerator for 8 weeks and It worked fine. I just gave the tree to a local  Forum member. Is better to graft fresh when ever possibly but 3 day shipping is fine.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 06, 2013, 02:38:03 AM
Thank you Carlos for breaking the ice, I've been wanting to include the 'Jan Boyce' avocado cultivar that I got from you in the 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida-Winter Avocado Void) list.

This is the updated avocado cultivar list that could fill the 'SFL-WAV,' (in decending order of probability for success; with 1 being highest; this is a best estimate, based on gathered information so far; input from Forum members as to the order of the list is very much welcomed and encouraged):

1   Sharwil
2   Jan Boyce
3   Fuerte
4   Yamagata

From Carlos' web page: http://www.myavocadotrees.com (http://www.myavocadotrees.com)
(Comment No. 1)   The University of California says it has excellent flavor in April.
(Comment No. 2)   “I hope this variety could fill our void for avocado fruit in Februry to March with quality fruit. At least that is the idea.”

Jan Boyce avocado comments (a bit long but good information, in my opinion)

Jan Boyce is the “connoisseur’s avocado” claims Julie Frink, and she should know. Ms. Frink is the curator of the avocado variety collection at the South Coast Research Center in Irvine, the home of one of the largest avocado collections in the country, and she sometimes admits that the J.B. is her favorite avocado.  The Jan Boyce is richly flavored and endowed with an extremely small seed. The only possible complaint is that its thin skin is somewhat difficult to peel. Thank God for spoons!
Our experience with the Jan Boyce up here in chilly Santa Cruz County has been exciting. It is a vigorous tree, blooms late (after the frosts are over), and it sets fruit readily. Expect the fruit to be ripe by the end of winter in Southern California, July on the Central Coast.

Posted by Karly30 9b- Los Angeles area (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 16:32
If you had room for just one Avocado, what would you choose? I would like something I can keep on the smaller side. I have a small hillside i could plant it in, so it would have decent drainage. I was thinking of Gwen, but now I'm reading talk of many other hard to find varieties and am unsure.

Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 17:52
Jan Boyce. Hand's down.
Patty S.
 
RE: Just one Avocado      
•   Posted by Karly30 none (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 18:20
Tell me more Patty!

RE: Just one Avocado      
•   Posted by hoosierquilt z10a/23 Vista Calif (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 21:20
Jan Boyce has been deemed the "best of the best" by Julie Frink, who is the curator of the Avocado Variety Collection at the South Coast Research Center in Irvine, the home  of one of the largest avocado collections in the country. Julie has dubbed this avocado the "connoisseur's avocado" and for good reason. It is just superlative, smooth, rich, nutty, firm, delicious. Plus, the tree is nice and vigorous. My teeny, tiny Jan Boyce I planted last year has at least tripled in size, and it is VERY happy up on my slope. I'll snap a pic of it tomorrow. It was just a stick when I planted it, and I thought, "oh brother, it will never make it through the winter." I think I planted it in Nov. of 2010, actually, not the best time to plant an avocado. It didn't give a hoot, and it is just growing great guns. Here are some great articles for you to read about the Jan Boyce, plus, I'll give you a link to a source that was just shared by NorCalNiko on our forum in another recent thread.
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/24/home/hm-avocado24 (http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/24/home/hm-avocado24)
http://ucavo.ucr.edu/AvocadoVarieties/VarietyList/JanBoyce.html (http://ucavo.ucr.edu/AvocadoVarieties/VarietyList/JanBoyce.html)
The only negative, if you can call it one, is they do not peel easily. but a spoon will work just fine!
Patty S.

RE: Just one Avocado      
•   Posted by Karly30 none (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 1, 12 at 23:10
My only concern is that Jan Boyce is supposed to be a monster. Can I keep it to a reasonable size without losing all the fruit? What if I had room for jan Boyce and a second smaller one? What would you get to extend the season out?

RE: Just one Avocado      
•   Posted by NorCalNiko USDA 9 Sunset 16/17 (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 2, 12 at 17:40
I had a similar issue. I'm planting a Jan Boyce with a Sharwil, which is a much smaller variety. It's supposed to be excellent as well, though I've never tasted one... The Sharwil isn't listed on the Epicenter site, but they have them. Just request one.

Story by Jillian Laurel Steinberger
For the backyard grower, Epicenter’s Ellen Baker suggests the variety called Jan Boyce. It’s from a seedling that was grown at UC Riverside, where she says some consider it to be the best avocado they ever tasted. “It has a rich flavor, and is perfect for a home grower who wants a beautiful, unusual, delicious avocado with an immediate ripening time. You won’t buy it at the store because it doesn’t ship well. When you cut it open it makes you laugh, because the seed is so small.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 06, 2013, 05:52:03 AM


I have tried yamagata and kona avocado they are pretty average. I have a kona sandwich between my sir prize and holiday, folk in SoCal love sharwil. I prefer Catalina and choquette.

Don't know what you mean by Kona avocado? There is no cultivar here with that name. I have Choquette here and it's one of the poorest quality wise. As far as commercial types Sharwil in my opinion is a whole lot better tasting than Hass. I consider Hass to be very mediocre quality in the taste department. Another good thing about Sharwil is that the fruits can stay on the tree for very long time even when fully ripe. If you plant Sharwil next to a Green Gold you will get excellent pollination and great fruit set. Green Gold is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap.
[/quote]

You must be eating a lot of Chilean Hass because in my opinion they cant compare. The choquette and catalina I'm talking about are from Homestead, FL, we get them during their season. The choquette grown here in California are not very good. I have not had the Gold Green yet but Julie Frink tell me its way too oily for her taste. We call the Shawil Kona.
[/quote]

I've never had Chilean Hass, although i saw them growing everywhere in Chile, I'm talking  strictly about California Hass, really poor quality compared to what we have here. I've lived in California as long as i've lived here, eaten lots and lots of avocados in both places.  I'm a very big avo fanatic, have to have one or two every day. Also worked in a produce store in California and got to taste a lot of different cultivars there. Hawaii is definitely tops when it comes to avocados. Florida may beat us when it comes to mangos but both California and Florida pale in comparison to avocados found here. They are not only very high quality, but omnipresent, and a lot cheaper than in the lower 48. Also avocados grow wild here. There are many trees growing wild right along the roads = free for the picking.
[/quote]

What's the big deal if they grow wild if no body wants them.... and I'm sorry Oscar California avocado are as well known ,world wide, as Florida mangos.
[/quote]

Who told you nobody wants them? :o The main point i was trying to make with avocados  growing wild here was that this is an ideal growing area for avocados, unlike California where they will get parched if you miss one watering and where water is extremely expensive. The main reason California avocados are so well known is not their quality, it is your avocado marketing association: CALAVO, which has been very good at restricting entry of avocados from Hawaii and elsewhere.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 06, 2013, 08:05:00 AM
I really don't know why they are restricting avocado from Hawaii, an integral part of the USA. Here most of our Hass is from Mexico, Chile and soon Peru, we never see California Hass. Probably a price issue, since oversea growers don't have to comply with all the regulation, employment issues, liability, Workers Comp US growers have to comply On the West Indies varieties we get tons of fruit in January to April form the Dominican Republic.
Could it be the since Hawaii is so expensive the cost are not competitive?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 06, 2013, 08:21:01 AM
The main reason California avocados are so well known is not their quality, it is your avocado marketing association: CALAVO, which has been very good at restricting entry of avocados from Hawaii and elsewhere.

Don't know if you saw my comment about CALAVO's bully techniques....you are spot on.  They are a powerful lobbying group.  I once was contemplating  seriously of going into the avocado biz commercially upon retirement.....IF I had stayed in south Texas (which I didn't) and upon talking to a CALAVO admin staff about marketing, selling to them, demand, etc. I got this weird response, "you can't do that.   That's illegal."   I'm dead serious, and so was she.  Now that's what I call a strangehold such that the staff have been programmed to believe they're the only game in town.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 06, 2013, 01:27:53 PM
Is there anybody else out there that agrees with Fruitlovers about the greatness of the Hawaiian avocadoes???

California avocadoes are famous because they are just better than any of the other crap that comes out of any other state including Hawaii. I tried a few from Hawaii and one of them were totally crap. The others were ok. Nothing that would make one say, they are the best. The Hass, Fuerte, and Sir Prize are one of the best varieties that I have tasted from  JF's backyard.

CTMiami, give me a few days and I will hook you up with some nice California Hass Avos.

JF keep those nice California avocadoes coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Droshi on July 06, 2013, 02:01:52 PM
Is there anybody else out there that agrees with Fruitlovers about the greatness of the Hawaiian avocadoes???

California avocadoes are famous because they are just better than any of the other crap that comes out of any other state including Hawaii. I tried a few from Hawaii and one of them were totally crap. The others were ok. Nothing that would make one say, they are the best. The Hass, Fuerte, and Sir Prize are one of the best varieties that I have tasted from  JF's backyard.

CTMiami, give me a few days and I will hook you up with some nice California Hass Avos.

JF keep those nice California avocadoes coming.

Sounds like fruitlovers has lived in both places for an extended time. If you've tried a fruit from a place shipped, it may not be as good as locally right there fresh.

I first tried asian fruits in Geneva, my father in law brought them back with him on a trip from Thailand. Almost all of them I didn't care for (rambutan, mangosteen, longan) only seemed to like langsat. After visiting Malaysia in person, I found I loved all the fruits especially Pulasan and Durian. In fact in Malaysia langsat was one that I didn't seem to care to buy as it just seemed ordinary.

Overall I've noticed people seem to like what they are used to. If you ask an Indian person what the best mango varieties are, they'll be all Indian cultivars. Same with Florida, Thai, Middle-East...etc.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 06, 2013, 02:17:39 PM
Cuban 007. I still remember that bag you brought with 4-5 California Hass from Cosco, Some of the best avocados I ever had. 
I dream often of JF  Fuerte and Sir Prize I tasted in December. California can produce some of the best avocados in the world. That is not to say that Hawaii or Florida or Chile etc, con not produce good fruit.  When they are tree ready it make a big difference and fruit traveling thousands of miles some times is picked too early to allow for the trip. Thus the lesser quality. I'm sure If you taste Hass from a persons yard from Chile allowed to mature in the tree would taste better than store bought fruit.

Like comparison taste test of different varieties with different maturities all tasted on the same day. Well one variety or two or more are suffering. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 06, 2013, 02:19:50 PM
Droshi, I am not a homer, like some others that are blinded by the loyalty of where they reside. Clearly, Florida has the best mangoes in the U.S. I have spoken to some Floridians and they admit the superiority of the avocado from California. But Hawaiian avocadoes???? They only person beating that drum is Oscar. The way he refers to California avocadoes is more a sign of jealousy and envy than actual substance to his ill advised comment that California avocadoes are crap, and that their popularity is only due to marketing.


Is there anybody else out there that agrees with Fruitlovers about the greatness of the Hawaiian avocadoes???

California avocadoes are famous because they are just better than any of the other crap that comes out of any other state including Hawaii. I tried a few from Hawaii and one of them were totally crap. The others were ok. Nothing that would make one say, they are the best. The Hass, Fuerte, and Sir Prize are one of the best varieties that I have tasted from  JF's backyard.

CTMiami, give me a few days and I will hook you up with some nice California Hass Avos.

JF keep those nice California avocadoes coming.

Sounds like fruitlovers has lived in both places for an extended time. If you've tried a fruit from a place shipped, it may not be as good as locally right there fresh.

I first tried asian fruits in Geneva, my father in law brought them back with him on a trip from Thailand. Almost all of them I didn't care for (rambutan, mangosteen, longan) only seemed to like langsat. After visiting Malaysia in person, I found I loved all the fruits especially Pulasan and Durian. In fact in Malaysia langsat was one that I didn't seem to care to buy as it just seemed ordinary.

Overall I've noticed people seem to like what they are used to. If you ask an Indian person what the best mango varieties are, they'll be all Indian cultivars. Same with Florida, Thai, Middle-East...etc.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 06, 2013, 04:36:19 PM
The only way to know whether any of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' will fill the 'SFL-WAV,'  is to grow them here in South Florida.

Two of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' are already here in S. Florida and are being grown by Forum members, the other two are not.

This is where things stand right now:

1   Sharwil (Nullzero, in S. Florida, has said he has one tree. It seems a good idea if someone else (i.e. Carlos...) also had one as a 'back-up.')
2   Jan Boyce (CTMIAMI has it. And, now I have it also, thanks to Carlos)
3   Fuerte (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar, which is of incredible quality; Some calls/research needs to be done to see what can be found.)
4   Yamagata (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar either, also of incredible quality; Some calls/research also need to be done in order to find it.)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 06, 2013, 06:39:43 PM
Droshi, I am not a homer, like some others that are blinded by the loyalty of where they reside. Clearly, Florida has the best mangoes in the U.S. I have spoken to some Floridians and they admit the superiority of the avocado from California. But Hawaiian avocadoes???? They only person beating that drum is Oscar. The way he refers to California avocadoes is more a sign of jealousy and envy than actual substance to his ill advised comment that California avocadoes are crap, and that their popularity is only due to marketing.


[.
[/quote]

Cuban007, that's a regrettable statement from someone I consider one of the best sources of the forum....I don't understand why Oscar is on an anti-California avocado crusade, he even blames the California Avocado Society.

Droshi, we grow all those Hawaiian avocados in Socal, I grow Kona Sharwil, but unfortunately I haven't seen one crack our top ten list.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 06, 2013, 07:57:07 PM
The only way to know whether any of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' will fill the 'SFL-WAV,'  is to grow them here in South Florida.

Two of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' are already here in S. Florida and are being grown by Forum members, the other two are not.

This is where things stand right now:

1   Sharwil (Nullzero, in S. Florida, has said he has one tree. It seems a good idea if someone else (i.e. Carlos...) also had one as a 'back-up.')
2   Jan Boyce (CTMIAMI has it. And, now I have it also, thanks to Carlos)
3   Fuerte (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar, which is of incredible quality; Some calls/research needs to be done to see what can be found.)
4   Yamagata (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar either, also of incredible quality; Some calls/research also need to be done in order to find it.)

1. Nullzero is in California, not Florida.
3. I have Fuerte Thanks to a Forum member. Its growing well. See my web.
4. I have Yamagata growing. Got them from Top Tropical took 3 trees, two died. Typical.

Actually the only thing I'm missing from the Hawaiians is the Sharwill and Fujikawa.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 06, 2013, 08:56:49 PM
The only way to know whether any of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' will fill the 'SFL-WAV,'  is to grow them here in South Florida.

Two of the avocado cultivars on the 'List' are already here in S. Florida and are being grown by Forum members, the other two are not.

This is where things stand right now:

1   Sharwil (Nullzero, in S. Florida, has said he has one tree. It seems a good idea if someone else (i.e. Carlos...) also had one as a 'back-up.')
2   Jan Boyce (CTMIAMI has it. And, now I have it also, thanks to Carlos)
3   Fuerte (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar, which is of incredible quality; Some calls/research needs to be done to see what can be found.)
4   Yamagata (I don't know of anyone in S. Florida who has this cultivar either, also of incredible quality; Some calls/research also need to be done in order to find it.)

1. Nullzero is in California, not Florida.
3. I have Fuerte Thanks to a Forum member. Its growing well. See my web.
4. I have Yamagata growing. Got them from Top Tropical took 3 trees, two died. Typical.

Actually the only thing I'm missing from the Hawaiians is the Sharwill and Fujikawa.

Carlos, I'll bring you some scions of Sharwil and Ibrahim Cuban California avocado, the best one I've had this year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Droshi on July 06, 2013, 09:02:57 PM
Not saying I agree which state grows the best avocados....just stating my observation that home grown truly does taste better, but maybe more because you're living there than because it's actually better. Or maybe it's just what do you prefer in an avocado? I think California avocados tend to be a bit more oily due to the more arid climate no? Maybe that's what most people prefer.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 06, 2013, 09:12:47 PM
Not saying I agree which state grows the best avocados....just stating my observation that home grown truly does taste better, but maybe more because you're living there than because it's actually better. Or maybe it's just what do you prefer in an avocado? I think California avocados tend to be a bit more oily due to the more arid climate no? Maybe that's what most people prefer.

Thera, I agree with you. I love avocados from all places California avocados are unique due to our climate.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 06, 2013, 09:45:36 PM
Droshi, I am not a homer, like some others that are blinded by the loyalty of where they reside. Clearly, Florida has the best mangoes in the U.S. I have spoken to some Floridians and they admit the superiority of the avocado from California. But Hawaiian avocadoes???? They only person beating that drum is Oscar. The way he refers to California avocadoes is more a sign of jealousy and envy than actual substance to his ill advised comment that California avocadoes are crap, and that their popularity is only due to marketing.


Cuban007, that's a regrettable statement from someone I consider one of the best sources of the forum....I don't understand why Oscar is on an anti-California avocado crusade, he even blames the California Avocado Society.

Droshi, we grow all those Hawaiian avocados in Socal, I grow Kona Sharwil, but unfortunately I haven't seen one crack our top ten list.
[/quote]

Please cut the personal attack BS and don't put any words into my mouth.  >:(  I never said California avocados are crap. All i said was that Hass is not the "best avocado in the world". I think a lot of knowledgeable people would agree with that. I also think Sharwil is far from being the best avocado we have here. As i mentioned earlier, for many reasons, the top pick for commercial production is often far from the best tasting. Think of Tommy Atkins for an example to that! I do think Sharwil is better tasting than Hass, that is my own personal opinion after tasting many of both. At least the Sharwils produced here are better. I've never tasted a Sharwil produced in California. Climate is ofcourse a factor in how a fruit is going to taste. I don't need to beat any drums. I'm not a commercial grower of avocados and am not promoting one or the other. I'm giving my own personal taste preferences.
There are many excellent avocados in California. I lived there 26 years and got to taste a whole lot of the different cultivars there. I've lived here almost as long. Having lived in both places a long time all i'm saying is that it's easier to get access to get great avocados here year round, and they also are cheaper. Also it's a lot easier to grow avocados here. You throw an avocado pit by the side of the road and it will grow. Try doing that in arid California.
About oil content of avocados, climate is just one factor determining oil content, it's also influenced by cultivar. Some of the cultivars here have quite higher oil content than California Hass. Personally i don't like most super high oil cultivars so that doesn't matter to me.
The reason you don't see Hawaiian avocados on the mainland has nothing to do with costs, it has to do with Calavo politically pressuring USDA to ban them from being imported. The excuse given is that they can be a vector for fruitflies. But any grower knows that avocados picked hard will not have fruit fly, unless the exterior has been damaged. There have been several attempts to jump the hoops and clear Sharwils with USDA for exportation but they have failed. There is yet another attempt for clearance happening right now.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 06, 2013, 10:45:22 PM
Not saying I agree which state grows the best avocados....just stating my observation that home grown truly does taste better, but maybe more because you're living there than because it's actually better. Or maybe it's just what do you prefer in an avocado? I think California avocados tend to be a bit more oily due to the more arid climate no? Maybe that's what most people prefer.

Arid climate is not a factor. The reason is, there are oily types of avocados and watery types and a range in between. The Hass is simply an oily type that California is well known for growing and with the rising popularity of Mexican food and guacamole, more Hass gets consumed each year. The not so oily types are good in their own way that does not include guacamole but as slices (garnish) on the side of a fish, meat or chicken plate in Latino cuisines. SE Asian cuisine too I think.

I was unaware of this oily to watery range in avocados until a few years ago
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 07, 2013, 12:10:50 AM
Really poor quality same as crap. Just a play of words.

I still have yet to hear anyone in this forum talk about Hawaiian avocadoes the way you do. However, there are plenty here in the forum that can speak very positive about the quality of the California avocado, including, the California Hass.

To compare a California Hass Avo to a Tommy Atkins Mango is an insane and ignorant comparison. I reiterate, the Hass avocado is popular because of the consumer appeal to the quality of the fruit. I can understand that you're not a fan. Everyone has different palettes. Consider yourself in the minority. Millions of consumers love it and keep coming back for more. I have never heard anyone reject an Avo because it is a California Hass however I have heard plenty reject a mango because it is a Tommy Atkins.

P.S. Exotica has Sharwil and they are not hard to find here in SoCal.


Droshi, I am not a homer, like some others that are blinded by the loyalty of where they reside. Clearly, Florida has the best mangoes in the U.S. I have spoken to some Floridians and they admit the superiority of the avocado from California. But Hawaiian avocadoes???? They only person beating that drum is Oscar. The way he refers to California avocadoes is more a sign of jealousy and envy than actual substance to his ill advised comment that California avocadoes are crap, and that their popularity is only due to marketing.


Cuban007, that's a regrettable statement from someone I consider one of the best sources of the forum....I don't understand why Oscar is on an anti-California avocado crusade, he even blames the California Avocado Society.

Droshi, we grow all those Hawaiian avocados in Socal, I grow Kona Sharwil, but unfortunately I haven't seen one crack our top ten list.

Please cut the personal attack BS and don't put any words into my mouth.  >:(  I never said California avocados are crap. All i said was that Hass is not the "best avocado in the world". I think a lot of knowledgeable people would agree with that. I also think Sharwil is far from being the best avocado we have here. As i mentioned earlier, for many reasons, the top pick for commercial production is often far from the best tasting. Think of Tommy Atkins for an example to that! I do think Sharwil is better tasting than Hass, that is my own personal opinion after tasting many of both. At least the Sharwils produced here are better. I've never tasted a Sharwil produced in California. Climate is ofcourse a factor in how a fruit is going to taste. I don't need to beat any drums. I'm not a commercial grower of avocados and am not promoting one or the other. I'm giving my own personal taste preferences.
There are many excellent avocados in California. I lived there 26 years and got to taste a whole lot of the different cultivars there. I've lived here almost as long. Having lived in both places a long time all i'm saying is that it's easier to get access to get great avocados here year round, and they also are cheaper. Also it's a lot easier to grow avocados here. You throw an avocado pit by the side of the road and it will grow. Try doing that in arid California.
About oil content of avocados, climate is just one factor determining oil content, it's also influenced by cultivar. Some of the cultivars here have quite higher oil content than California Hass. Personally i don't like most super high oil cultivars so that doesn't matter to me.
The reason you don't see Hawaiian avocados on the mainland has nothing to do with costs, it has to do with Calavo politically pressuring USDA to ban them from being imported. The excuse given is that they can be a vector for fruitflies. But any grower knows that avocados picked hard will not have fruit fly, unless the exterior has been damaged. There have been several attempts to jump the hoops and clear Sharwils with USDA for exportation but they have failed. There is yet another attempt for clearance happening right now.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 07, 2013, 12:53:53 AM
Hawaiian avocados are not exported to continental USA, so only the people that live here or visited here have even tasted them. It's rather obvious for that simple reason that most people on this forum have never tasted Hawaiian avocados. So why would they praise them? :o ::)
BTW, Sharwil, what some here are calling strangely Kona?, is not a Hawaiian avocado. It is originally from Australia. So we don't even take credit for that one.
The Sharwils grown in California are not going to be exact quality as ones grown here, just like Hass grown here or in Chile will not be the same quality as those grown in California. In fact Hass doesn't grow well here at all. Each avocado cultivar has its own niche where it performs the best.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 07, 2013, 02:22:13 AM
Sharwil, what some here are calling strangely Kona?, is not a Hawaiian avocado. It is originally from Australia. So we don't even take credit for that one.
The Sharwils grown in California are not going to be exact quality as ones grown here, just like Hass grown here or in Chile will not be the same quality as those grown in California. In fact Hass doesn't grow well here at all. Each avocado cultivar has its own niche where it performs the best.

Good Point.

Carlos, that is awesome news that you have Fuerte and Yamagata (where would we be without you). Certainly, everyone realizes that the progress that's being made to fill the 'SFL-WAV' would not have been possible without your help, many thanks.

JF and Mark in Texas  indicated that they'll provide you (Carlos) with Sharwil budwood. I'd like to say that I'll be very greatful about that, since Sharwil is an awesome, excellent, crucial and promising avocado cultivar for South Florida. It's very exciting to know that progress is being made to bring Sharwil to S. Florida. So, the following through with the above intended action that you guys have mentioned, will be greatly appreciated. Thank you guys fo pledging to do this.

P.S.   Nullzero has mentioned, in another thread, that he has bought a house, with about an acre lot size, in South Florida, although his description says that he's in California. He's also mentioned that he has a Sharwil and if I remember correctly, he's said that it's at his house, here in S. Florida.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 07, 2013, 02:39:08 AM
My point is, and it will be as long as long as you keep your criticism of California Avos, that your criticism of Cal avos is unfounded and based on your single opinion.
If the Hawaiian avos were so great, people or business like CALAVO would have found a way to get them more widely distributed just like with any other fruit or product that has consumer support. Whether you like it OR NOT, Cal Hass has it, Hawaiian Avos DON'T.



Hawaiian avocados are not exported to continental USA, so only the people that live here or visited here have even tasted them. It's rather obvious for that simple reason that most people on this forum have never tasted Hawaiian avocados. So why would they praise them? :o ::)
BTW, Sharwil, what some here are calling strangely Kona?, is not a Hawaiian avocado. It is originally from Australia. So we don't even take credit for that one.
The Sharwils grown in California are not going to be exact quality as ones grown here, just like Hass grown here or in Chile will not be the same quality as those grown in California. In fact Hass doesn't grow well here at all. Each avocado cultivar has its own niche where it performs the best.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 07, 2013, 02:42:19 AM
CTMiami, a box of Cal Hass will be going your way on Monday. Plz, do us a favor and give us a review of the Costco bought Cal Hass.

P.S. Eating some right now with my black beans, rice, and lechon.....Heavenly!!!!!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 07, 2013, 03:36:38 AM
My point is, and it will be as long as long as you keep your criticism of California Avos, that your criticism of Cal avos is unfounded and based on your single opinion.
If the Hawaiian avos were so great, people or business like CALAVO would have found a way to get them more widely distributed just like with any other fruit or product that has consumer support. Whether you like it OR NOT, Cal Hass has it, Hawaiian Avos DON'T.



Hawaiian avocados are not exported to continental USA, so only the people that live here or visited here have even tasted them. It's rather obvious for that simple reason that most people on this forum have never tasted Hawaiian avocados. So why would they praise them? :o ::)
BTW, Sharwil, what some here are calling strangely Kona?, is not a Hawaiian avocado. It is originally from Australia. So we don't even take credit for that one.
The Sharwils grown in California are not going to be exact quality as ones grown here, just like Hass grown here or in Chile will not be the same quality as those grown in California. In fact Hass doesn't grow well here at all. Each avocado cultivar has its own niche where it performs the best.

I don't have anything against California avos. I'm a big fan of Reeds, Fuerte, Pinkerton, Linda, and many others. Aren't those California avos? You seem to get confused and think that California avos = Hass. That is a mistake many Californians make because all they see in the marketplace is Hass. I bet a vast majority of Californians can't name one other variety of avocado besides Hass...that is all they know. There are many other cultivars in California besides Hass. Unfortunately the marketing strategy of their growers association Calavo is totally and obsessively focused on Hass to the detriment of all the other good varieties. They even get other countries, like Chile, to exclusively plant Hass.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 07, 2013, 08:16:18 AM
Not saying I agree which state grows the best avocados....just stating my observation that home grown truly does taste better, but maybe more because you're living there than because it's actually better. Or maybe it's just what do you prefer in an avocado? I think California avocados tend to be a bit more oily due to the more arid climate no? Maybe that's what most people prefer.


I've been ordering from these guys for quite a while.  The fruit is picked tree ripe from their orchards, their service is excellent, and the prices are the best I've found for mail order cados.
http://www.morrocreekranch.com/ (http://www.morrocreekranch.com/)

Of course home grown is better, because you're in control.  Change gears - get your hands on a BHN 602 tomato, aka "Rodeo".  Probably can grow it on your patio.  Been gardening for 40 years and it is hands down the best of the best regarding ease of culture and quality of fruit.

Regards,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 07, 2013, 08:21:37 AM
Fuerte are the first CA avocados I ever ate.  They're unbelievably good and superior to Hass, I would say, although it's been several years since I had one.  The market has definitely latched on to Hass with more than a half-dozen Hass-type varieties and almost year-round availability.  But let's not fight over avocados, boys!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 07, 2013, 10:37:12 AM
You don't have anything against Cal Avos.......Really??? ???

IMO Avos from California are far superior than other avos. The Cal Hass Avo is a good avocado and it is way better than you portray it. That is the reason why is popular and it is widely used.

I will wait for CTMiami's unbiased opinion of the Cal Hass Avo.


My point is, and it will be as long as long as you keep your criticism of California Avos, that your criticism of Cal avos is unfounded and based on your single opinion.
If the Hawaiian avos were so great, people or business like CALAVO would have found a way to get them more widely distributed just like with any other fruit or product that has consumer support. Whether you like it OR NOT, Cal Hass has it, Hawaiian Avos DON'T.



Hawaiian avocados are not exported to continental USA, so only the people that live here or visited here have even tasted them. It's rather obvious for that simple reason that most people on this forum have never tasted Hawaiian avocados. So why would they praise them? :o ::)
BTW, Sharwil, what some here are calling strangely Kona?, is not a Hawaiian avocado. It is originally from Australia. So we don't even take credit for that one.
The Sharwils grown in California are not going to be exact quality as ones grown here, just like Hass grown here or in Chile will not be the same quality as those grown in California. In fact Hass doesn't grow well here at all. Each avocado cultivar has its own niche where it performs the best.

I don't have anything against California avos. I'm a big fan of Reeds, Fuerte, Pinkerton, Linda, and many others. Aren't those California avos? You seem to get confused and think that California avos = Hass. That is a mistake many Californians make because all they see in the marketplace is Hass. I bet a vast majority of Californians can't name one other variety of avocado besides Hass...that is all they know. There are many other cultivars in California besides Hass. Unfortunately the marketing strategy of their growers association Calavo is totally and obsessively focused on Hass to the detriment of all the other good varieties. They even get other countries, like Chile, to exclusively plant Hass.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 07, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
Can we please give up the chest beating macho drills?  "My avocado can beat up your avocado" is getting a little old.  ::)

We're all on the same team so let's play nice, eh.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 07, 2013, 01:14:58 PM
CTMiami, a box of Cal Hass will be going your way on Monday. Plz, do us a favor and give us a review of the Costco bought Cal Hass.

P.S. Eating some right now with my black beans, rice, and lechon.....Heavenly!!!!!

Thank you I'll be waiting by the door.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 07, 2013, 02:58:31 PM
Colloidal silver is supposed to be anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. I know my figs will be getting leaf rust as we get more rain. I will test it on them. Silver is next to copper (a known anti-fungal) in the periodic table and both are in the same grouping as gold. So maybe silver can do some of what copper does but more gently and not harmful to people who spray it, accumulating in the orchards soil to the point where some orchards have to be abandoned
http://silverpuppy.com/ (http://silverpuppy.com/)  colloidal silver generator
(quote)

Zands, I was not aware that copper spraying could accumulate "in the orchards' soil to the point where some orchards have to be abandoned."
I'm going to be looking into more of an organic approach, in order to prevent something like this from happening.

Carlos, in order to do justice in your taste test, may I suggest that it's important that the California Hass avocado(s) that Cuban007 is going to send you, that you also eat it like he does, with some (quoting Cuban007) "black beans, rice, and lechon.....Heavenly!!!!!"
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 07, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Can we please give up the chest beating macho drills?  "My avocado can beat up your avocado" is getting a little old.  ::)

We're all on the same team so let's play nice, eh.

Mark

I agree with Mark. Let's just hope Oscar chooses his words more carefully and goes back to sharing his wealth of knowledge on fruit trees with all of us.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 08, 2013, 08:12:27 AM
Zands, I was not aware that copper spraying could accumulate "in the orchards' soil to the point where some orchards have to be abandoned."
I'm going to be looking into more of an organic approach, in order to prevent something like this from happening.


Someone here said some citrus (think it was) groves had to be abandoned.....  but I can find no evidence on the internet of abandoned groves. Only that some groves accumulate copper in the soil so much that it hurts the microbial life of the soil >>>>> which is important because your soil is like a container of non-pasteurized yogurt. It is a fermentation vat

Silver is almost copper and vis versa. Are first cousins on the periodic table same as silver is almost gold. All three are in the same metals grouping on the periodic table
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 08, 2013, 08:52:58 AM
You guys might check with Carlos as someone made the same kind of statement and he corrected them in a post.  Apparently he uses copper sprays quite a bit, has quite a large op, and has had his soil tested for Cu residuals.  Analysis came up benign.  Best do a soil test and deal with the facts rather than (perhaps) feelings.

Regarding microbes and plant nutrition, a plant doesn't care as long as it is getting a well balanced diet of the 16 essential elements in the proper ratios/amounts.   I don't do hydro but I've seen large very successful ops like at Epcot.  Simply amazing. 

Good luck,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 08, 2013, 09:40:27 AM
You guys might check with Carlos as someone made the same kind of statement and he corrected them in a post.  Apparently he uses copper sprays quite a bit, has quite a large op, and has had his soil tested for Cu residuals.  Analysis came up benign.  Best do a soil test and deal with the facts rather than (perhaps) feelings.

Regarding microbes and plant nutrition, a plant doesn't care as long as it is getting a well balanced diet of the 16 essential elements in the proper ratios/amounts.   I don't do hydro but I've seen large very successful ops like at Epcot.  Simply amazing. 

Good luck,
Mark

Are you talking about 16 elements instantly soluble and available to the roots and absorbable via (foliar) the leaves? Then I guess you can pull it off with this high end tech. But the peasants of the world cannot farm this way. They depend on the slower way of microorganisms and a living fermenting soil to help the root hairs take up minerals and liberate (make soluble) those minerals from large particle sizes. The more cultivated the plant (like we eat these days) the more this is needed. Wild plants, many of them, can do this without humus and micro-orgs or just a few of them. A wild plant (that might even be edible) can grow in a newly formed rock crevice but not a cabbage
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 08, 2013, 09:56:46 AM
Are you talking about 16 elements instantly soluble and available to the roots and absorbable via (foliar) the leaves? Then I guess you can pull it off with this high end tech.


Soil, soil-less, water culture....Dyna-Gro has you covered.  I use their Foliage Pro which is complete and in a form that is available for uptake via the roots or foliar - http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website%20pdf%20Files/Dyna-Gro%20Brochure.pdf (http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website%20pdf%20Files/Dyna-Gro%20Brochure.pdf)   You could use this, grow in lava rock and be very successful.  A qt. which costs about $15 goes a long way.

Having said that, many third world countries are limited to organic growing such that soil health is very important.   And for the record, I am one organic mofo.  Not an organic purist as I think it's another high priced marketing racket aimed at using one's organic/natural religious leanings and feelings to take advantage of "those types"......screening out the cultists as good sucker bets.   I use myco drenches on all plant material, compost, manure, etc.   I combine that with synthetics to give me the best of both worlds - slow release of organics such as the meals (blood, bone), humates, etc.  and the beneficial elements they provide (as opposed to base "essential" elements.)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on July 08, 2013, 10:03:36 AM
Are you talking about 16 elements instantly soluble and available to the roots and absorbable via (foliar) the leaves? Then I guess you can pull it off with this high end tech.


Soil, soil-less, water culture....Dyna-Gro has you covered.  I use their Foliage Pro which is complete and in a form that is available for uptake via the roots or foliar - [url]http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website%20pdf%20Files/Dyna-Gro%20Brochure.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website%20pdf%20Files/Dyna-Gro%20Brochure.pdf[/url])   You could use this, grow in lava rock and be very successful.  A qt. which costs about $15 goes a long way.

Having said that, many third world countries are limited to organic growing such that soil health is very important.   And for the record, I am one organic mofo.  Not an organic purist as I think it's another marketing racket aimed at using one's organic/natural religious leanings to take advantage of,  screening out the cultists as good sucker bets, and I use myco drenches on all plant material, compost, manure, etc.   I combine that with synthetics to give me the best of both worlds - slow release of organics such as the meals (blood, bone), humates, etc.  and the beneficial elements they provide (as opposed to the base "essential" elements.)


Biomass turning into humus is where it is at. I used to go 100% organic but now am willing to mix. Organic farming needs animal shyte for nitrogen and we don't live so close to our livestock anymore though some do....... so....... Am I going to visit a stable and haul horse manure 10 miles? No. I'll buy NPK ans use wood chips from the tree trimmers

(Organic dudes also use green manures and crop rotation to supply nitrogen)
*****  I would love to try bio-char but cannot do this in my subdivision  8)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 08, 2013, 11:31:18 PM
Updated avocado list, with new avocado cultivar, 'Fujikawa,' that could fill the S. FL Winter Avocado Void (SFL-WAV)

1   Sharwil
2   Fujikawa
3   Fuerte
4   Jan Boyce
5   Yamagata

Carlos, I looked into the Fujikawa Hawaiian avocado that you mentioned (Nice find!). It has quality specifications that show potential fo fill the 'SF-WAV.'
In some places it said that the Fujikawa has a small seed and in other places they say it has a medium sized seed. Although I prefer a small seed, a medium sized seed is in my opinion, not a deal breaker, since it has to be taken in consideration with other specs. of fruit quality and ripening period.

February 13, 1979
Fujikawa avocado (by Warren Yee; University of Hawaii)
The Fujikawa is a Guatemalan type seedling planted by the late Satomi Fujicawa at Honaunau, Kona. It is very heavy bearer with fruits of good cold storage keeping quality. Fruit characteristics: form, almost spherical; weight, 1 ¼ - 1 ½ pounds; color, green; skin, medium thick and slightly rough; seed, small;  flesh, light yellow; flavor, rich and nutty; season, February to May. Oil content, 16.7 – 27 percent.

Organization for Tropical Studies (2004)
'Fujikawa', `Hass', `Pinkerton' and `Guatemala' attained a production of 700 fruit per tree.
The 'Fujikawa' variety had the largest mean fruit weight with 348.8 g.
There were large differences between varieties for pulp flavor, only five varieties ('Fujikawa', `Pinkerton', 'Kahalu', `Hass' and 'Fuerte') showed the best flavor, the rest of the varieties had a lower pulp flavor. From the studied characteristics, it is possible to conclude that additionally to the `Hass' and 'Fuerte' varieties, three good genotypes (Pinkerton, Fujikawa and Kahalu) were distinguished with high potential to be grown commercially under an agroforestry production system.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 09, 2013, 09:22:28 AM
(Organic dudes also use green manures and crop rotation to supply nitrogen)
*****  I would love to try bio-char but cannot do this in my subdivision  8)

Before I put in my commercial crop on my farm, for 3 consecutive years, I planted Hairy vetch, Madrid yellow sweet clover and elbon rye for the humus and N.  Also, the vetch and clover have a deep invasive branching taproot that helps break up my heavy clay loam.  Didn't get much N out of it and even though some of the stock grew to 6' and thick, didn't get a lot of humus....as least to the naked eye.  BUT, I think green manure crops are ignored by too many and should be included in any crop production and that includes tropicals.

You can grow a crop of vetch, let it lignify (flower and get woody), crush it with a roller and plant tomatoes, cantaloupe....whatever.....in the thick mulch you just made.  There are papers on this technique. 

The clover and vetch are invasive and easily reseed year after year.  You only need to innoculate the seed one time.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 09, 2013, 09:53:59 PM
CTMiami, they're on their way. Tracking number has been sent as well. Enjoy!!!

CTMiami, a box of Cal Hass will be going your way on Monday. Plz, do us a favor and give us a review of the Costco bought Cal Hass.

P.S. Eating some right now with my black beans, rice, and lechon.....Heavenly!!!!!

Thank you I'll be waiting by the door.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 09, 2013, 11:38:20 PM
CTMiami, they're on their way. Tracking number has been sent as well. Enjoy!!!

CTMiami, a box of Cal Hass will be going your way on Monday. Plz, do us a favor and give us a review of the Costco bought Cal Hass.

P.S. Eating some right now with my black beans, rice, and lechon.....Heavenly!!!!!

Thank you I'll be waiting by the door.

CTMIAMI deserves it, and I for one am very interested in the result(s) of the taste test.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Carlos on my behalf and on behalf of others, for the valuable information about avocado cultivars that he's provided in this thread.  Most of the valuable information available in this thread, and that yet to come, is to his credit. If there's an avocado master, Carlos is it. And, it has been a privilege to have been a part in this ongoing journey.

Of the five avocado cultivars, of fine outstanding quality, on the 'List,' there is a good possibility that one or more could fill the 'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' (SFL-WAV). There is also the possibility that some of these varieties could fill the Winter Avocado Void in other places of the country.

In this journey, the light at the end of the tunnel (as they say) can already be seen. Thanks to everyone involved in this collaboration, and please keep your contributions coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 10, 2013, 01:28:18 PM
Carlos, yamagatas starting to ripen. If I have room I'll pack some for you in August.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 11, 2013, 01:03:02 AM
Zands and Mark in Texas, some fruit trees/plants need to be 'pushed' more than others with fertizizer... i.e. I have an edible 'dendrocalamus gigantus' bamboo, and it needs to be 'pushed' quite a lot, about once a month.
It seems to me that striking a balance between organic, chemical, manure... fertizing would be an appropriate, balanced method to use.

JF, while CTMIAMI is very busy doing his avocado magic, allow me to say that this 'Avocado-Cultivar-Comparison-Tasting' is now really getting exciting and interesting, with you sending Carlos Yamagata avocado cultivar, and Cuban007 sending Carlos Hass avocado cultivar.
Let the 'Avocado-Cultivar-Comparison-Tasting' ('ACCT') begin.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 11, 2013, 01:25:05 AM
Johnb51, so Fuerte tastes better than Hass, good to know, thanks for the info; can't wait to try it.

Fuerte are the first CA avocados I ever ate.  They're unbelievably good and superior to Hass, I would say, although it's been several years since I had one.  The market has definitely latched on to Hass with more than a half-dozen Hass-type varieties and almost year-round availability.  But let's not fight over avocados, boys!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 11, 2013, 08:41:05 AM
Carlos, yamagatas starting to ripen. If I have room I'll pack some for you in August.
I did not know you had fruiting Yamagata. Interesting they are ripening now.  Yes bring some if you can I have never tasted it. your house soil produces magical fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 11, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
Johnb51, so Fuerte tastes better than Hass, good to know, thanks for the info; can't wait to try it.

Fuerte are the first CA avocados I ever ate.  They're unbelievably good and superior to Hass, I would say, although it's been several years since I had one.  The market has definitely latched on to Hass with more than a half-dozen Hass-type varieties and almost year-round availability.  But let's not fight over avocados, boys!
JF send me a Fuerte and I thought it was one of the best avocados I ever tasted. I tell you JF soil is like the holy grail of soils. If I recall it was last December.  Of course I don't expect the tree to behave the same here.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 11, 2013, 01:12:36 PM
Carlos, yamagatas starting to ripen. If I have room I'll pack some for you in August.
I did not know you had fruiting Yamagata. Interesting they are ripening now.  Yes bring some if you can Ihave never tasted it. your house soil produces magical fruit.
[/quote

Hey Carlos

I don't grow yamagata but friends of mine from OC CRFG chapter do. My friend made my sharwil for me last year because it  was the best of the Hawaiian avos i tried.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 13, 2013, 01:56:03 AM
In this update of the 'Quality Avocado List' that could fill the 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida Winter Avocado Void), it would be very helpful to know if S. Florida Forum Members are growing all of these promising, quality avocado cultivars. If these cultivars were all being grown in S. Florida, we could then begin to learn of their fruiting behavior. And, we could then say for sure if they do fill the 'SFL-WAV.'

1   Sharwil (Only one Forum Member has indicated having this cultivar. It would certainly have more 'backup' presence here, if more Forum Members had this cultivar.)

2   Fujikawa (It seems that no Forum Member is known to be growing this promising quality avocado cultivar in S. Florida, USA, as of this date.)

3   Fuerte (One Forum Member has it, more are needed, if only as backup.)

4   Jan Boyce (CTMIAMI has it, and now I am fortunate to have it also.)

5   Yamagata (No forum member is known to be growing this promising quality avocado cultivar in S. FL, USA, as of this date; it's available at Top Tropicals, in Florida.)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 13, 2013, 11:06:39 PM
Johnb51, so Fuerte tastes better than Hass, good to know, thanks for the info; can't wait to try it.

Fuerte are the first CA avocados I ever ate.  They're unbelievably good and superior to Hass, I would say, although it's been several years since I had one.  The market has definitely latched on to Hass with more than a half-dozen Hass-type varieties and almost year-round availability.  But let's not fight over avocados, boys!
JF send me a Fuerte and I thought it was one of the best avocados I ever tasted. I tell you JF soil is like the holy grail of soils. If I recall it was last December.  Of course I don't expect the tree to behave the same here.

Yes, good soil in California!  But at least it rains a lot in Florida (some days too much, like today)!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 15, 2013, 01:46:20 AM
We may have achieved/reached our goal of avocado 24/7 successfully?

Two new additions to the 'List,' avocado cultivars: "Doni" and "Monroe"

In this update of the 'List,' the 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida Winter Avocado Void) is 'filled' if one were to add "Doni," "Monroe" and the "Lula" avocado cultivars.
And, the Ripening Periods mentioned below, held to be valid/true.

1   Sharwil (Ripening Period: Unknown; Only one Forum Member has indicated having this cultivar.)

2   Fujikawa (Ripening Period: Unknown; It seems that no Forum Member is growing this avocado cultivar in S. Florida)

3   Fuerte (Ripening Period: Unknown; One Forum Member has it)

4   Jan Boyce (Ripening Period: Unknown; CTMIAMI has it, and I have it also.)

5   "Yamagata" (Ripening Period: March - April, according to Top Tropicals Nursery in FL; No forum member is known to be growing this avocado cultivar in S. FL)

6   "Doni" (Ripening Period: May - June, according to Pine Island Nursery in S. FL and ECHO Nursery in FL; I have a small young tree)

7   "Monroe" (Ripening Period: November - January, according to Pine Island Nursery; I have a small young tree)

NOTE: I live in Miami, South Florida, USA. And, During the first six months of this year, January - June, I've had no ripe avocados in my yard.
If the above Avocado Cultivar Ripening Periods were to be true for South Florida, then the 'South Florida Winter Avocado Void' (SFL-WAV) would be filled except for only one month, the month of February. Which, would also be filled if we added the Lula avocad cultivar to the above list; This year, I was able to pick the last Lula avocado fruit from a tree in S. FL, in early March.

To confirm that the 'SFL-WAV' is filled, actual verification of the above 'Ripening Periods' is needed.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM
Carlos grows Doni/Donnie.  He says they ripen June to August.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Berto on July 15, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Leooel,
Fujikawa is being evaluated here in Fort Myers.
My tree looks like it was double grafted and is growing at a super slow snail pace.  The tree is barely a couple feet tall and flowered like there was no tomorrow. 
I plan to graft a few scions on  Choquette rootstocks to observe the growth rate.
My understanding is that Fujikawa is an excellent variety in Hawaii.  Lets hope it will adapt to our wet and humid climate.           
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fruitlovers on July 15, 2013, 06:05:32 PM
Leooel,
Fujikawa is being evaluated here in Fort Myers.
My tree looks like it was double grafted and is growing at a super slow snail pace.  The tree is barely a couple feet tall and flowered like there was no tomorrow. 
I plan to graft a few scions on  Choquette rootstocks to observe the growth rate.
My understanding is that Fujikawa is an excellent variety in Hawaii.  Lets hope it will adapt to our wet and humid climate.         

Fujikawa will have to adapt to your drier climate. It rains a lot more here and is more humid than in Florida. (Average rainfall here is 150 in. per year.) Only your average temperatures are higher. I'm guessing it, and most other Hawaiian cultivars, will do just fine there. They grow here fine in Kona where it is probably more like your climate: drier and with higher average temperatures.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 15, 2013, 09:45:45 PM
Carlos grows Doni/Donnie.  He says they ripen June to August.
Actually I had a Domi for lunch today. It was very good. They will stay in the tree until the end of July and improve as time goes on.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 15, 2013, 11:03:18 PM
Carlos grows Doni/Donnie.  He says they ripen June to August.
Actually I had a Domi for lunch today. It was very good. They will stay in the tree until the end of July and improve as time goes on.

I know you're not a fan of Miguel, Carlos, but since I have both a Simmonds and a Miguel, I'm hoping Miguel also will "improve as time goes on,"  meaning I'll try to leave the Miguels on the tree until September/October and make the Simmonds last until August.  Do you think that's doable, Carlos?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 16, 2013, 12:02:54 AM
Johnb51, 'Ripening Periods' tend to move-around/dance a little every year, more in some years than others (I've specially noticed this with my two Keitt mango trees).
But, if Carlos has said that the 'Ripening Period' for 'Doni' is June-August (and not May-June), then I guess we still need to look for an avocado cultivar that fills in the month of May.
To be on the safe side and in order to have avocados 24/7, I agree with what Carlos has said, that when we finally fill the 'SFL-WAV,' we will keep going and fill it in with a few more cultivars.
By the way, I did not know that Carlos has the 'Doni' avocado cultivar, although I'm glad he has it, I must say that I'm not surprised, he has an excellent collection.

Berto, that is awesome/exciting news, that you're currently evaluating 'Fujikawa' in Fort Myers, thank you for that, God speed to you and your efforts.
If your 'Fujikawa' is flowering like crazy, that is definitely a good sign. If it's growing slow, it's probably because it's shooting its roots deep underground in search of well water, and when it finds it watch out, it'll probably start growing at a good pace. Although, I'm sure that 'Fruitlovers' probably knows more about the 'Fujikawa's' growing habit than we do.
With your help, and the help of other members in the 'Tropical Fruit Forum,' we should have the 'SFL-WAV' filled in no time (because time flies my friend).

CTMIAMI, I would also like to thank you for originally bringing the wonderful Fujikawa avocado cultivar into the 'radar' of this thread.
Also, I'm waiting for the 'Dupoi' and 'Fuerte' avocado fruit that I got from you to ripen. When they do, I plan to report on their (taste) quality.
They are really nice, good looking avocados, thank you for the generous, thoughtful treat of letting me try them out.

Fruitlovers, thank you for your encouraging comments/predictions as to how 'Fujikawa' should/will do here in South Florida. Your observations make a lot of sense.
I guess that as far as avocados go, South Florida, USA, can be considered to be 'virgin avocado territory.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 16, 2013, 07:54:03 PM
Carlos grows Doni/Donnie.  He says they ripen June to August.
Actually I had a Domi for lunch today. It was very good. They will stay in the tree until the end of July and improve as time goes on.

I know you're not a fan of Miguel, Carlos, but since I have both a Simmonds and a Miguel, I'm hoping Miguel also will "improve as time goes on,"  meaning I'll try to leave the Miguels on the tree until September/October and make the Simmonds last until August.  Do you think that's doable, Carlos?
May be doable if you cut your nitrogen intake to almost nothing. If you are fertilizing too much the fruit will get large and drop on both.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 17, 2013, 01:18:18 AM
In this update of the 'List,' to fill the 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida Winter Avocado Void), the 'Fuerte' avocado cultivar has been removed.

The reason for the removal of 'Fuerte,' is due to the description given to 'Fuerte' by ECHO Nursery in Florida:
"'Fuerte' (B type) is a Mexican & Guatemalan cross, commercially grown in many regions of the world. The fruit is small (12-14 oz.) with dark green bumpy skin.
This cultivar is better suited to drier climates - a wet summer can cause the fruit to rot. This variety is not recommended for Florida. Bears Nov-Dec."
NOTE: 'CTMIAMI' is currently in the process of more accurately observing the actual behavior of 'Fuerte' in S. Florida.

1   Sharwil (Ripening Period: Unknown; Only one Forum Member has indicated having this cultivar.)

2   Fujikawa (Ripening Period: Unknown; Forum Member 'Berto' is growing this avocado cultivar in Ft. Meyers, along with others)

3   Jan Boyce (Ripening Period: Unknown; Forum Members 'CTMIAMI' and 'LEOOEL' have it.)

4   Yamagata (Ripening Period: March-April, according to Top Tropicals Nursery in FL; No forum member is known to be growing this avocado cultivar in S. FL)

5   Doni (Ripening Period: May-June, per Pine Island Nursery in S. FL and ECHO Nursery in FL; June-August, per 'CTMIAMI'; 'CTMIAMI' and 'LEOOEL' have it)

6   Monroe (Ripening Period: November-January, per Pine Island Nursery (Forum Members have confirmed this); Nov-Dec, per ECHO Nursery; Forum Members have it)

P.S.   If we were to create an avocado cocktail tree made up of 'Monroe,' 'Lula,' 'Yamagata,' and 'Doni,' then, theoretically, quality avocados would be available to anyone in South Florida, USA, during the first six months of the year, if they had this avocado cocktail tree; NOTE: This would only be true if the Ripening Periods for 'Yamagata' and 'Doni' held to be true. In order to have avocados for the last six months of the year, another avocado cocktail tree would be needed.

Good progress has been made as far as the Ripening Period information on the 'List'. Only three of the six cultivars on the 'List' have a Ripening Period that is unknown.
Thank you again to 'Berto' and everyone else, that has contributed to having quality avocados 24/7 in S. Florida a reality, please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 17, 2013, 09:25:14 AM
May be doable if you cut your nitrogen intake to almost nothing. If you are fertilizing too much the fruit will get large and drop on both.

Carlos, I'm a nitrogen freak and perhaps I need to change my ways.  I give my tropicals a high N food like a slow release 18-4-9 Polyon or Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro 9-3-6.  Sometimes Peters Citrus FeED - 20-10-20.   I've got 8 very nice Oro Negro hanging on a small tree and don't want to screw this up.  Trunk girth is at least 1 1/2" which apparently is the key element of how many to leave hanging.  May sound trite to a commercial grower but to me who is doing the greenhouse thing, I'm trying to "do good" regarding my foods.  You've done the tissue cultures and you Florida growers seem to hit your mangos and cados with a high K food.  Am I going gonna screw this thing up ya think?

Since most of your cados are grafted to Waldin, here's the relative effect of rootstock on scion leaf nutrient uptake according to studies done by Lahav and Whitney, 2002.

West Indian rootstock
N - L
P - H
K - M
Ca - L
Mg - H

(high, medium, low)

Thanks,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 17, 2013, 09:40:31 AM
Mark, nothing wrong with Nitrogen. I used it extensively on my early varieties. Now on the late varieties like Monroe, Lula  and your Oro Negro fruit that stays in the tree a long time it causes fruit to keep growing and eventually drop in the early range of maturity.  Example if you feed a lot of nitrogen most of the Monroes will drop by the first week in January of course you would pick them. Lower or almost nothing nitrogen will keep the Monroes a few extra weeks in the tree.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 17, 2013, 09:56:25 AM
Mark, nothing wrong with Nitrogen. I used it extensively on my early varieties. Now on the late varieties like Monroe, Lula  and your Oro Negro fruit that stays in the tree a long time it causes fruit to keep growing and eventually drop in the early range of maturity.  Example if you feed a lot of nitrogen most of the Monroes will drop by the first week in January of course you would pick them. Lower or almost nothing nitrogen will keep the Monroes a few extra weeks in the tree.

Thanks.  I'll back off or switch to high K food come fall, perhaps Peters Blossom Booster - 10-30-20.  In spite of the high N food, it's amazing how compact the Oro Negro is growing - short internodes.  I'm beginning to think it's the Bonzi PGR at work.  Had little effect on the others.  Also, the ON is one of the few cados that doesn't burn when hit with an insecticide.  I can't even use Forbid 4F at a tiny rate of 1/8 (.5ml) per gallon without most of my varietals' small leaves rolling up and turning black or at least getting margin scorch.  Got rid of the mites but the damn white flies are still there. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 17, 2013, 11:44:57 AM
Mark I want you to live many years, Forbid is actually forbidden on food items is only for ornaments.   Try insecticidal soap, or light oil, test it first or Bayer Citrus systemic. it is imidacloprid. It does not get into the fruit at least on avocado.  The better alternative find someone to split a gallon of Admire pro  $170.00  and make your own solution of 5ml to a gallon for 50 cents instead of buying the Home Depot for $14.00. It will last you several years. Do not apply  before or during blooming.  Good by while fly and all other sucking insects.  Remember too much of anything is bad. It take a few weeks for the tree to up take this product so start with 3 ml per gal and see how it is 30 days later.
Title: It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permision.
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 18, 2013, 10:35:36 AM
Mark I want you to live many years, Forbid is actually forbidden on food items is only for ornaments.   Try insecticidal soap, or light oil, test it first or Bayer Citrus systemic. it is imidacloprid. It does not get into the fruit at least on avocado.  The better alternative find someone to split a gallon of Admire pro  $170.00  and make your own solution of 5ml to a gallon for 50 cents instead of buying the Home Depot for $14.00. It will last you several years. Do not apply  before or during blooming.  Good by while fly and all other sucking insects.  Remember too much of anything is bad. It take a few weeks for the tree to up take this product so start with 3 ml per gal and see how it is 30 days later.


Carlos, according to a tech at Bayer, Forbid is only labeled for ornamentals because it has not been put through the EPA process.  IOW, Bayer has not submitted it for testing on edibles.  Doesn't mean it's harmful to one's health....just hasn't been tested.  It acts like an oil by drying out the pest, in all stages of development as opposed to being a toxin.

I buy and use the hell outta imdacloprid and used it several times as a spray and drench on my greenhouse stock as well as my vineyard.  I still have white flies and the down side is it must have killed mite predators because about 3 months after a couple of applications I had the mite attack, on everything.  Also, Admire Pro is a rip off.  Another down side to Admire is the limited shelf life.  The active ingredient will settle out over time and not go back into solution by shaking it.  Try this at 1/10 the cost for the same product labeled on about anything edible and a WP powder which is much more practical.  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15)   

1.6 oz/300 gallons or 1 --2 oz per acre!

Did you know that only 10 ppb, (yes, that's billion) will kill sharpshooters, leafhoppers and such?  Those pests carry and inject into the xylem a deadly pathogen called Pierce's Disease which has wiped out vineyards from coast to coast, especially Cali and Texas.  Imidacloprid not only kills these carriers, it actually repels them.

Appreciate the responses, hope mine will save you some time and money.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 18, 2013, 10:54:33 AM
May be storing Admire Pro over a long time may not work but I find it indispensable
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 18, 2013, 11:23:58 AM
May be storing Admire Pro over a long time may not work but I find it indispensable


I do too but perhaps you missed my points in my previous post I said:

"I buy and use the hell outta imdacloprid and used it several times as a spray and drench on my greenhouse stock as well as my vineyard.  I still have white flies and the down side is it must have killed mite predators because about 3 months after a couple of applications I had the mite attack, on everything.  Also, Admire Pro is a rip off.  Another down side to Admire is the limited shelf life.  The active ingredient will settle out over time and not go back into solution by shaking it.  Try this at 1/10 the cost for the same product labeled on about anything edible and a WP powder which is much more practical.  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15)   

1.6 oz/300 gallons or 1 --2 oz per acre! "


Just trying to save you money while getting the same results.  "Back in the old days" I bought Admire Pro, BUT, there is no reason to buy Admire Pro now that the patent has expired which has induced a huge price drop in imidacloprid.  Last time I bought it was an order for 7 sealed foil packs.  That's (4) 2.25oz packs of the 75% WP per foil pack, enough to make 1,700 gals. of spray material, for $36!!!!!  ;)   
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: edself65 on July 18, 2013, 11:50:50 AM
I have a 1 pound bag of Tetra San 5 WDG Miticide/ Ovicide forsale or trade.

Thanks,

Ed
(http://s14.postimg.cc/dx5onexsd/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)

(http://s14.postimg.cc/wo7lxksct/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 18, 2013, 01:27:20 PM
In this update of the 'List,' to fill the 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida Winter Avocado Void), the 'Fuerte' avocado cultivar has been removed.

The reason for the removal of 'Fuerte,' is due to the description given to 'Fuerte' by ECHO Nursery in Florida:
"'Fuerte' (B type) is a Mexican & Guatemalan cross, commercially grown in many regions of the world. The fruit is small (12-14 oz.) with dark green bumpy skin.
This cultivar is better suited to drier climates - a wet summer can cause the fruit to rot. This variety is not recommended for Florida. Bears Nov-Dec."
NOTE: 'CTMIAMI' is currently in the process of more accurately observing the actual behavior of 'Fuerte' in S. Florida.

1   Sharwil (Ripening Period: Unknown; Only one Forum Member has indicated having this cultivar.)

2   Fujikawa (Ripening Period: Unknown; Forum Member 'Berto' is growing this avocado cultivar in Ft. Meyers, along with others)

3   Jan Boyce (Ripening Period: Unknown; Forum Members 'CTMIAMI' and 'LEOOEL' have it.)

4   "Yamagata" (Ripening Period: March-April, according to Top Tropicals Nursery in FL; No forum member is known to be growing this avocado cultivar in S. FL)

5   "Doni" (Ripening Period: May-June, per Pine Island Nursery in S. FL and ECHO Nursery in FL; June-August, per 'CTMIAMI'; 'CTMIAMI' and 'LEOOEL' have it)

6   "Monroe" (Ripening Period: November-January, per Pine Island Nursery (Forum Members have confirmed this); Nov-Dec, per ECHO Nursery; Forum Members have it)

P.S.   If we were to create an avocado cocktail tree made up of 'Monroe,' 'Lula,' 'Yamagata,' and 'Doni,' then, theoretically, quality avocados would be available to anyone in South Florida, USA, if they had this avocado cocktail tree; NOTE: This would only be true if the Ripening Periods for 'Yamagata' and 'Doni' held to be true.

Good progress has been made as far as the Ripening Period information on the 'List'. Only three of the six cultivars on the 'List' have a Ripening Period that is unknown.
Thank you again to 'Berto' and everyone else, that has contributed to having quality avocados 24/7 in S. Florida a reality, please keep it coming.

Wow Leo,you are really determent! Carlos is doing most of the grunt work for you guys. If I can be of any assistant to you let me know.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 18, 2013, 05:19:25 PM
May be storing Admire Pro over a long time may not work but I find it indispensable


I do too but perhaps you missed my points in my previous post I said:

"I buy and use the hell outta imdacloprid and used it several times as a spray and drench on my greenhouse stock as well as my vineyard.  I still have white flies and the down side is it must have killed mite predators because about 3 months after a couple of applications I had the mite attack, on everything.  Also, Admire Pro is a rip off.  Another down side to Admire is the limited shelf life.  The active ingredient will settle out over time and not go back into solution by shaking it.  Try this at 1/10 the cost for the same product labeled on about anything edible and a WP powder which is much more practical.  [url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url])   

1.6 oz/300 gallons or 1 --2 oz per acre! "


Just trying to save you money while getting the same results.  "Back in the old days" I bought Admire Pro, BUT, there is no reason to buy Admire Pro now that the patent has expired which has induced a huge price drop in imidacloprid.  Last time I bought it was an order for 7 sealed foil packs.  That's (4) 2.25oz packs of the 75% WP per foil pack, enough to make 1,700 gals. of spray material, for $36!!!!!  ;)


Mark,  Admire Pro has gone down in price. My last 140 oz were $172.00  a $1.21 an oz. I apply it 14 oz to an acre and I have no white fly issues or sucking insect that produce sooty mold, my grove have never been cleaner. The word "Rip off",  not a good word to describe this excellent product. In my years I have come to believe that the unlisted so called inactive ingredients makes a lot of difference as well as the quality control of a mayor multinational like Bayer.  Cool,  you use your Ebay product I'll keep using Admire Pro. I don't have a pest problem.....
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 18, 2013, 05:34:44 PM
Mark,  Admire Pro has gone down in price. My last 140 oz were $172.00  a $1.21 an oz. I apply it 14 oz to an acre and I have no white fly issues or sucking insect that produce sooty mold, my grove have never been cleaner. The word "Rip off",  not a good word to describe this excellent product. In my years I have come to believe that the unlisted so called inactive ingredients makes a lot of difference as well as the quality control of a mayor multinational like Bayer.  Cool,  you use your Ebay product I'll keep using Admire Pro. I don't have a pest problem.....
Further I computed my cost per oz of active ingredient and is $2.95 the Ebay come to $5.23 an oz of active ingredient. So I think you are not saving anything. Check my math 2.25oz X 4 =9 X ai75 = 6.75 of ai for $36.00  divided by 6.75 = $5.23 that is what you are paying of oz of active ingredient.


May be storing Admire Pro over a long time may not work but I find it indispensable


I do too but perhaps you missed my points in my previous post I said:

"I buy and use the hell outta imdacloprid and used it several times as a spray and drench on my greenhouse stock as well as my vineyard.  I still have white flies and the down side is it must have killed mite predators because about 3 months after a couple of applications I had the mite attack, on everything.  Also, Admire Pro is a rip off.  Another down side to Admire is the limited shelf life.  The active ingredient will settle out over time and not go back into solution by shaking it.  Try this at 1/10 the cost for the same product labeled on about anything edible and a WP powder which is much more practical.  [url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url])   

1.6 oz/300 gallons or 1 --2 oz per acre! "


Just trying to save you money while getting the same results.  "Back in the old days" I bought Admire Pro, BUT, there is no reason to buy Admire Pro now that the patent has expired which has induced a huge price drop in imidacloprid.  Last time I bought it was an order for 7 sealed foil packs.  That's (4) 2.25oz packs of the 75% WP per foil pack, enough to make 1,700 gals. of spray material, for $36!!!!!  ;)


Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 18, 2013, 08:33:46 PM
Mark I thought Imidacloprid was most effective used as a systemic insecticide/peticide. A soil drench would be more effective than spraying. At least that is the manufacturer's direction.

May be storing Admire Pro over a long time may not work but I find it indispensable


I do too but perhaps you missed my points in my previous post I said:

"I buy and use the hell outta imdacloprid and used it several times as a spray and drench on my greenhouse stock as well as my vineyard.  I still have white flies and the down side is it must have killed mite predators because about 3 months after a couple of applications I had the mite attack, on everything.  Also, Admire Pro is a rip off.  Another down side to Admire is the limited shelf life.  The active ingredient will settle out over time and not go back into solution by shaking it.  Try this at 1/10 the cost for the same product labeled on about anything edible and a WP powder which is much more practical.  [url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Adonis+75+WSP+Imidacloprid+75%25&_sop=15[/url])   

1.6 oz/300 gallons or 1 --2 oz per acre! "


Just trying to save you money while getting the same results.  "Back in the old days" I bought Admire Pro, BUT, there is no reason to buy Admire Pro now that the patent has expired which has induced a huge price drop in imidacloprid.  Last time I bought it was an order for 7 sealed foil packs.  That's (4) 2.25oz packs of the 75% WP per foil pack, enough to make 1,700 gals. of spray material, for $36!!!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 18, 2013, 10:55:21 PM
A soil drench of imidacloprid is more effective than a foliar spray for only one reason, it is translocated over a longer period of time throughout plant tissue as opposed to a one time foliar shot because it stays active in the soil.  Caveat - it takes a helluva lot more of the product than a foliar spray.  For tropicals like cados and mango, a soil drench is probably the way to go and I guess I need to up my game.  For grapevines, my foliar sprays have worked wonders.  I find dead leafhoppers/sharpshooters (carriers of the deadly Pierce's Disease bacteria) under the vines all the time, and that's the only insecticide I've used.

Regarding brands - Merit WP, Adonis, Admire Pro, Criterion 75 WSP , etc.....they're all pretty much the same product with certain caveats.   The Adonis label is a verbatim copy label of Admire Pro.    Admire Pro is only 42.8% imidacloprid as opposed to  Adonis 75WP which is 75% of the active ingredient.

The white flies on my cados don't seem to be  doing any damage....they just "bug me".  :)  Mites are a different story.  They've kicked my ass.

I went through the typical industry price gouging steps starting with the patented Admire Pro then on to Merit WP and now to Adonis.

Stay bug free,
Mark     
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 19, 2013, 01:53:16 AM
JF, I was fortunate to get a taste of a Fuerte avocado, thanks to you and Carlos. It was an all around very pleasant experience. It reminded me of the avocado slices my grandmother would put in my soup, it's definitely a quality avocado cultivar, thanks again. You are very fortunate that 'Fuerte' grows/bears well in your area.

10 Pages!
This thread has reached 10 pages long, and it has done so while almost completly filling the 'South Florida Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV').
This 'SF-WAV' loosely corresponds to the months of Jan-June. Of these first six months of the year, March, April and May, are the ones that are in most need to be filled in with a good quality avocado cultivar(s).

Thank you to all the Tropical Fruit Forum members, who have contributed in this collaboration to fill the 'SFL-WAV:' Nullzero, Zands, Fruitlovers, Mark in Texas, JF, Cuban007, Berto, Johnb51, Edself65, Droshi, Ryan, Green Thumb, Bananimal, ScottR, ofdsurfer, jc, bradflorida, digigarden, tropicdude and rob. A special thank you goes to Carlos, in appreciation for his above and beyond, outstanding, contributions/assistance in achieving the goal of filling in the 'SFL-WAV.'

The last mile to be run in a marathon is known to be the hardest.
Although the 'SFL-WAV' 'List' is almost complete, your continued help/assistance will be needed to finish the last mile of this ongoing journey.
We've come a long way, but the best is just to come. Stay tuned in and please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 19, 2013, 07:52:04 AM
JF, I was fortunate to get a taste of a Fuerte avocado, thanks to you and Carlos. It was an all around very pleasant experience. It reminded me of the avocado slices my grandmother would put in my soup, it's definitely a quality avocado cultivar, thanks again. You are very fortunate that 'Fuerte' grows/bears well in your area.

You may recall that before Hass "took over the world" Fuerte was everyone's fair haired child.  It is indeed delicious.  A little harder to peel for me (although I always scoop with a spoon) with a thinner skin that doesn't protect the meat as well as the leathery Hass and probably the only reason why it's not the #1 marketed cado still.

Ya done good!  Keep up the good work.  You, Carlos and the other fine people here pursuing your passion will/are revolutionizing the Florida avocado industry.  Texas would still be doing such if it weren't for a hard freeze that wiped out a TX A&M varietal test plot being conducted in Weslaco, a Tex/Mex border town in the 80's.  What's sad is that some varietals made it through this freeze OK..... so what did the Aggies do?  Bulldozed the whole orchard and gave up on it.   :-\    I have that report and it is amazing.  They were testing about 30 varietals and reported in extreme detail all you'd want to know about each varietal such as the skin thickness (determines anthracnose susceptibility), oil content, flavor, amount of edible flesh, fiber content, harvest dates, profile of tree, etc.  Both unnamed (like WA2-3-27) and named Florida and California wood were grown.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 19, 2013, 08:05:18 AM
Mark,  Admire Pro has gone down in price. My last 140 oz were $172.00  a $1.21 an oz. I apply it 14 oz to an acre and I have no white fly issues or sucking insect that produce sooty mold, my grove have never been cleaner.


Carlos, please read my post and the label if you have some time.  Adonis 75WP is labeled to be applied at a rate of 1.6 oz per acre for fruits and grapes, not 14 oz.  Cost - about $6.00/acre. Just trying to save ya some dinero amigo.

I have attended Aggie sponsored Pierce's Disease workshops and Admire Pro was first recommended while the rest of the world was still messin' in their britches. :)  This was 10 years ago, at least.  Grape production is a huge operation in Texas now (wineries' demands are 10 times the Texas supply) and most vineyards are using generic forms of imidacloprid.  Same with glyphosate (Round-Up).   I network with these guys and know of no one still buying Admire Pro.  Again, here's the label for your convenience, so you can compare - http://www.envincio.com/product-dload/Adonis75WSP_speclabel.pdf (http://www.envincio.com/product-dload/Adonis75WSP_speclabel.pdf)

Perhaps the reason you choose Admire Pro is that it's labeled for commercial use on fruit and veggie crops (thanks to some weird EPA  technicality, of which you are "legally" bound to do so) while Adonis 75 is labeled for residential fruit, ornamentals, nut trees, etc. Go figure.  That's the kind of crap, the power games, you get out of our federal government in this case the EPA.  I refuse to be a voluntary slave to their absurd dictates.  I'm a good steward of  my health and the environment and if I find out I can buy the same product for 1/10 of the cost, I'm going to do it.  If upon my research I find out a product is any way harmful to my health or the environment, I won't use it.

I report, you decide,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: cuban007 on July 19, 2013, 10:48:28 AM
Mark, thanx for the insight. How often do you use Adonis on your plants???
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 19, 2013, 02:54:37 PM
Mark is all the amount of active ingredient needed. May be that is why you are having a problem with white flies. The Admire Pro range of product for grave vines are 7-14 oz per acre.  If you use your Ebay product to reach those levels it would cost you more..
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 19, 2013, 03:16:38 PM
Mark, thanx for the insight. How often do you use Adonis on your plants???

Welcome!  Apparently not often enough.  Been about 6 months since I hit the cados and citrus.  Hit the vineyard this morning.  Vineyard gets sprayed about every 6 weeks. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 19, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
JF, I was fortunate to get a taste of a Fuerte avocado, thanks to you and Carlos. It was an all around very pleasant experience. It reminded me of the avocado slices my grandmother would put in my soup, it's definitely a quality avocado cultivar, thanks again. You are very fortunate that 'Fuerte' grows/bears well in your area.

10 Pages!
This thread has reached 10 pages long, and it has done so while almost completly filling the 'South Florida Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV').
This 'SF-WAV' loosely corresponds to the months of Jan-June. Of these first six months of the year, March, April and May, are the ones that are in most need to be filled in with a good quality avocado cultivar(s).

Thank you to all the Tropical Fruit Forum members, who have contributed in this collaboration to fill the 'SFL-WAV:' Nullzero, Zands, Fruitlovers, Mark in Texas, JF, Cuban007, Berto, Johnb51, Edself65, Droshi, Ryan, Green Thumb, Bananimal, ScottR, ofdsurfer, jc, bradflorida, digigarden, tropicdude and rob. A special thank you goes to Carlos, in appreciation for his above and beyond, outstanding, contributions/assistance in achieving the goal of filling in the 'SFL-WAV.'

The last mile to be run in a marathon is known to be the hardest.
Although the 'SFL-WAV' 'List' is almost complete, your continued help/assistance will be needed to finish the last mile of this ongoing journey.
We've come a long way, but the best is just to come. Stay tuned in and please keep it coming.

You welcome Leo but.....I didnt send Carlos the Fuertes it might have been Cuban007. Fuertes are out of season in my area I wonder were he got it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 19, 2013, 06:19:14 PM
Mark is all the amount of active ingredient needed. May be that is why you are having a problem with white flies. The Admire Pro range of product for grave vines are 7-14 oz per acre.  If you use your Ebay product to reach those levels it would cost you more..

The Admire Pro label calls for 2.8 oz/acre for foliar apps; 10.5 - 14 oz/acre for a soil drench on tropicals.  Are you spraying or applying it to the soil?

I used to use the 14 oz rate, split between 2 SOIL applications about 6 weeks apart on grapes.  Yes, I need to increase my amount on my greenhouse tropicals.

My Adonis Ebay Golden Award Special  :P calls for 1 oz/acre for grapes, foliar, which is very easy for me to do when I load up my tractor mounted airblaster with fungicides like Rally and Captan.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 19, 2013, 11:46:01 PM
JF, thank you for the encouraging words of support and offer of assistance, they're accecpted and needed. Carlos once told me that the avocado is the perfect food, and I agree with that statement. You can cut it open, scoop it out with a spoon and eat it, yummy! Or, you can guacamole it into a paste, add some lemon, crushed black pepper, finely diced onions and garlic, olive oil and voila, perfection. It's hard to think of a more nutritious food than that. Then, you can relax, maybe while watching a movie, and scoop the guacamole up with some organic corn chips, heavenly!

Mark in Texas, I'm sorry about that winter storm devastating an avocado research field. You're right, the surviving avocado cultivars should have been put on a 'pedestal,' and definitely not be destroyed as it happened then. From what you've said, it sounds like Texas is also 'virgin' avocado territory, just like Florida; and thank you for the kind words.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 20, 2013, 02:58:50 PM
Mark in Texas, I'm sorry about that winter storm devastating an avocado research field. You're right, the surviving avocado cultivars should have been put on a 'pedestal,' and definitely not be destroyed as it happened then. From what you've said, it sounds like Texas is also 'virgin' avocado territory, just like Florida; and thank you for the kind words.

Yeah, I was sick to hear that news.  Got it from a now retired tropical fruit extension agent Dr. Julian Sauls who was in charge of the project.

Texas will never be an avocado producing area.  Only place it will work is in the valley, the lowest Rio Grande area bordering with Mexico, but the citrus fields and tropical fruit fields are being sold to real estate developers.  Isn't that the way it always goes?   There are still some Lula and citrus orchards going.

Not to brag (too much), but Texas has done some incredible research and development and produced some great citrus varietals i.e. Star Ruby, Rio Red grapefruit (my fave), very cold hardy Orange Blast and Arctic Blast satsumas, etc.  Also, the fruit that is grown in south Texas is much sweeter, richer, and juicier than any I've had out of California and Florida. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 20, 2013, 03:03:29 PM
Hi, i have two mago va,r kent and osteen. And 3 avocado var, hass, bacon and reed. Only some months in the grownd and reed allready had flowers. Half a dozen polinized, but with time all the green small balls fall.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on July 20, 2013, 04:27:16 PM
Leooel,

10 pages!!..:) I know you started this post to fill the 'SFL-WAV ', but if it wasn't for your dedication and insight, and the experiences and wealth of knowledge of all the forum  avocado experts, this post would not have come together. So keep on sharing. Hopefully soon you'll be able to crack the 'SFL-WAV'..:)

Yeah, I was sick to hear that news.  Got it from a now retired tropical fruit extension agent Dr. Julian Sauls who was in charge of the project.
 


I can't imagine them just destroying all those trees!!! As you mentioned Dr. Sauls, I remembered seeing his name on some documents that I had collected while searching on info. about avocados in Texas.

The article is a little old (2010) but it has some good information, and I thought some of you might appreciate it. Enjoy!

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/fruit-nut/files/2010/10/avocados.pdf (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/fruit-nut/files/2010/10/avocados.pdf)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 21, 2013, 01:51:34 AM
Mark in Texas, that is heresy. It makes me sick to my stomach, when I also pass by new real estate development, on what used to be exclusive fruit tree fertile land.
I'm all for progress, but a right balance of development and rural areas is essential.
Also, I'm impressed that 'Lula' avocado grows well in Southern Texas, thanks for that info. I keep getting all the time more and more fond of the 'Lula' avocado cultivar. Thanks to your postings, and those of others, I've recently become aware that all kinds of different fruit can be grown in Texas. Who would have thought?
After living for a few years in the wonderful state of Louisiana (I was a young boy then), my family almost moved to the great state of Texas, to which we were greatly attracted to. But, partly due to the sub-tropical South Florida climate, we chose Miami, FLorida. No one in my family has had any idea of the wonderful fruit that could be grown in Texas. I love where I'm at right now, but a part of me wishes I had several lifetimes, in order to live in some different, favorite, locations.

Luisport, of the fruit trees that you mentioned, I'm only familiar with the 'Hass' avocado and the 'Kent' mango, since I have both fruit trees.
As you know 'Hass' avocado has been a worldwide hit, and the 'Kent' mango is a classic, quality cultivar. Those are two excellent choices. I think that you know what you're doing. And, although I don't know how they'll do in Portugal, I think that you're lucky to have '...69' (Steven Silva's) Forum postings and the fact that he also lives in Portugal, best of luck.

Green Thumb, you're absolutly right, the success that we've had, and God willing, that we will continue to have, could not have been possible without the contributions of Forum members and avocado experts such as Carlos, they have been and are essential to successfully filling the 'SFL-WAV.' I'm very optimistic that we'll successfully achieve our goal, but much work still needs to be done to fill the months of March, April and May, in the 'SFL-WAV,' and a little bit of luck wouldn't hurt either (it usually comes with hard work).
On a separate note, I read the article by Dr. Sauls that you posted. Although the Wilma avocado is trademarked, it's interesting that "it has demonstrated good cold hardiness," which makes me wonder about how appropriate it would be to fill the 'SFL-WAV.' Thank you for the article, very informative.
P.S. Your kind words of encouragement are very much appreciated, thank you.

CTMIAMI, the 'DuPoi' avocado that you gave me to try out finally ripened and I'd like to tell you what happened. Yesterday, I cut out a slice and it tasted good. Then, today after many hours of continuous work in my yard, I became hungry and decided to go straight for the remaining 'DuPoi' that was in the fridge. I was amazed, the same avocado that I had yesterday, yet the quality of the taste today blew me away. I could taste hints of garlic, onion, lemony and other kinds of nutty almondy flavors that I had not tasted yesterday, amazing. I just couldn't stop and I ate the whole remaining thing. It's incredible the effect that a little hunger can have on the taste buds. This reminds me of an article by Richard J. Campbell. The same thing happened to him, but with an 'Alphonso' mango that he had for the first time, under similar circumstances, while visiting India. Thank you for the 'DuPoi' avocado, a very interesting, fulfilling, tasty avocado cultivar.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 21, 2013, 10:31:46 AM
I can't imagine them just destroying all those trees!!! As you mentioned Dr. Sauls, I remembered seeing his name on some documents that I had collected while searching on info. about avocados in Texas.

The article is a little old (2010) but it has some good information, and I thought some of you might appreciate it. Enjoy!

[url]http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/fruit-nut/files/2010/10/avocados.pdf[/url] ([url]http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/fruit-nut/files/2010/10/avocados.pdf[/url])


Dr. Sauls was a little pithy but brilliant. Same with Jim Kamas from that article.  He is assigned to my county, is also brilliant, does incredible fast moving workshops and was the Pierce's Disease head honcho hear the research station before the State pulled the funds.  Here we are one the fastest growing, biggest grape and winery industries in the country, and the frickin' State pulls the funds!  Another one of those "go figure".

The publication I referenced is "Fruit Quality Evaluations of Avocado Cultivars for Subtropical Texas", Weslaco, 1991.  I gave The Avocado Man (Bill Schneider of Devine) a copy of it.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 21, 2013, 10:38:09 AM
Mark in Texas, that is heresy. It makes me sick to my stomach, when I also pass by new real estate development, on what used to be exclusive fruit tree fertile land.
I'm all for progress, but a right balance of development and rural areas is essential.
Also, I'm impressed that 'Lula' avocado grows well in Southern Texas, thanks for that info. I keep getting all the time more and more fond of the 'Lula' avocado cultivar. Thanks to your postings, and those of others, I've recently become aware that all kinds of different fruit can be grown in Texas. Who would have thought?

You'd be surprised, we have a very active Yahoo groups 'Texas Tropical Fruit growers' forum going.  Lots of folks in Texas growing subtropical and tropical fruit.    Yep, Lula is king here.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on July 21, 2013, 12:52:13 PM
Leo the Dupuis avocado is excellent if not the best early cultivar in So Florida. It gets a bump rap because it is not very prolific but taste wise one of my favorites.  It also has a peculiarity that the last fruit set stays small 8-12oz and stays in the tree a long time and get better and better.
By the way the California avocado from Cuban007 was a Hass not a Fuerte. Excellent quality. I still have a couple. I don't understand why Public, Windxie BJ etc.  can not sell California Hass much better than the Mexican, Peruvian and Chiliean Hass.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 21, 2013, 03:48:59 PM
Leo the Dupuis avocado is excellent if not the best early cultivar in So Florida. It gets a bum rap because it is not very prolific but taste wise one of my favorites.  It also has a peculiarity that the last fruit set stays small 8-12oz and stays in the tree a long time and get better and better. (quote)

Carlos, this DuPoi avocado cultivar sure has some excellent, quality characteristics. I sure like the one about it holding the fruit for a long time. If it's at all possible, I'd be interested in knowing the date the the first fruit is picked (dropped) off the tree, and the date that the last fruit is picked (dropped) off the tree. Also, I wish there was another avocado cultivar that had similar characteristics as the DuPoi, but that was also 'prolific.'

Thanks for sorting out that the 'California-Hass' avocado that you let me taste, was from Cuban007. That was a very generous gesture of him to do. I enjoyed very much the wonderful taste and quality of the fruit. I'm aware that they can grow all kinds of incredible quality fruit in S. California, where Cuban007 is at. Thanks to both of you for a memorable treat.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 21, 2013, 04:02:19 PM
...

Luisport, of the fruit trees that you mentioned, I'm only familiar with the 'Hass' avocado and the 'Kent' mango, since I have both fruit trees.
As you know 'Hass' avocado has been a worldwide hit, and the 'Kent' mango is a classic, quality cultivar. Those are two excellent choices. I think that you know what you're doing. And, although I don't know how they'll do in Portugal, I think that you're lucky to have '...69' (Steven Silva's) Forum postings and the fact that he also lives in Portugal, best of luck.

...
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS! ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 21, 2013, 04:31:28 PM
Some Forum members have mentioned that they are running out of space to plant fruit trees. A solution might be to plant 'cocktail' trees. For example, one of my goals in this thread, is to be able to come up with 'One - Avocado Cocktail Tree' ('ACT-1'), which will give me avocados for the first six months ('SFL-WAV') of the year. And, a 'Second - Avocado Cocktail Tree' ('ACT-2'), which would give me avocados for the last six months of the year. Whether this is doable or not, I guess we'll find out, but I think that it is doable.

'ACT-2:' It's a given that this is doable. If no one has done this yet, it's just a matter of time. In my S. Florida Temperature Zone 10b, I get avocados from trees in my yard from June to December.

'ACT-1:' For this to be accomplished, we need to fill in the months of March, April and May of the 'SFL-WAV,' preferably with a/some quality avocado cultivar(s).
With the help of Forum members, which has some awesome avocado experts, I'm confident we'll get this done in a relatively quick amount of time.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 21, 2013, 04:40:26 PM
Some Forum members have mentioned that they are running out of space to plant fruit trees. A solution might be to plant 'cocktail' trees. For example, one of my goals in this thread, is to be able to come up with 'One - Avocado Cocktail Tree' ('ACT-1'), which will give me avocados for the first six months ('SFL-WAV') of the year. And, a 'Second - Avocado Cocktail Tree' ('ACT-2'), which would give me avocados for the last six months of the year. Whether this is doable or not, I guess we'll find out, but I think that it is doable.

'ACT-2:' It's a given that this is doable. If no one has done this yet, it's just a matter of time. In my S. Florida Temperature Zone 10b, I get avocados from trees in my yard from June to December.

'ACT-1:' For this to be accomplished, we need to fill in the months of March, April and May of the 'SFL-WAV,' preferably with a/some quality avocado cultivar(s).
With the help of Forum members, which has some awesome avocado experts, I'm confident we'll get this done in a relatively quick amount of time.
I don't know if i understand correctly... you talk about trees that will give for 6 months?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 22, 2013, 12:53:08 AM
'ACCT' ('Avocado Cultivars Cocktail Tree'): As explained previously, this is an avocado tree with different avocado varieties grafted onto it. The idea is to have about two 'ACCT's' in the yard, which would then produce avocados year round. Having only about two 'ACCTs,' would then free more space to plant other trees in the yard, or at least that's the idea. This is one of the goals of this thread, to have avocados year round (24/7) in the home yard.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 22, 2013, 05:51:46 AM
'ACT' ('Avocado Cocktail Tree'): As explained previously, this is an avocado tree with different avocado varieties grafted onto it. The idea is to have about two 'ACT's' in the yard, which would then produce avocados year round. Having only about two 'ACTs,' would then free more space to plant other trees in the yard, or at least that's the idea. This is one of the goals of this thread, to have avocados year round (24/7) in the home yard.
Ok now i get it! Sorry my friend, i'm very inexperiente... but that's a fabulous idea! I love to get it here... but it's impossible for shure!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 23, 2013, 01:05:04 AM
The 'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV') has been completly Filled-In/Solved.
NOTE: This is only true if the specified ripening months given below are true.
Preferably, this needs to be verified and confirmed by Forum members.

This '...List' depicts the ripening months for quality avocado cultivars according to P.I's. (Pine-Island-Nursery's) webpage, and Top-Tropicals-Nursery's webpage.
Pine Island gives all these avocado cultivars the highest quality rating of 5 stars, except for Lula and Doni, they are each given 4 stars. 
The avocado cultivars in bold are the ones that I have.

The quality, 'South Florida - Avocado Cultivars Cocktail Tree - List' ('SFL-ACCT-List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe (per: P.I.)
2 February: Lula (per: 'LEOOEL')
3 March: Yamagata (per: Top-Tropicals-Nursery in Florida)
4 April: Yamagata (per: Top-Tropicals-Nursery in Florida)
5 May: Doni (per: P.I. NOTE: 'CTMIAMI' has said that Doni actually begins to ripen in June)
6 June: Doni(per: P.I. and 'CTMIAMI'), Simmonds (per P.I.)      
7 July: Catalina (per: 'LEOOEL': July 19), Simmonds (per P.I.)
8 August: Catalina (per: P.I.), Simmonds (per: P.I.), Miguel (per: P.I.- Preferred over Catalina)
9 September: Catalina (per: P.I.), Bacon (per: P.I.), Miguel (per: P.I. - Preferred over Catalina)
10 October: Hass (per: P.I.), Bacon (per: P.I.)      
11 November: Hass (per: P.I.), Oro-Negro (per: P.I.)
12 December: Monroe (per: P.I.), Oro-Negro (per: P.I.)

P.S.   

The 'Lula' avocado cultivar also ripens in December and January, it just keeps holding the fruit well into February.
As mentioned previously, I picked the last avocado fruit from a Lula tree in early March of this year.

NOTE: If 'Yamagata' does not fill in the months of March and April, as claimed by Top-Tropicals Nursery (of Florida), then we're hoping and keeping our fingers crossed, that at least one (or more) of the following avocados cultivars, will fill in the months of March and April (and if needed, the month of May):
Sharwil, Fujikawa and Jan-Boyce.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: edself65 on July 23, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
Are any of you growing the Gainesville avocado?

Thanks,

Ed
Georgetown, Tx
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on July 23, 2013, 07:25:05 AM

Green Thumb, you're absolutly right, the success that we've had, and God willing, that we will continue to have, could not have been possible without the contributions of Forum members and avocado experts such as Carlos, they have been and are essential to successfully filling the 'SFL-WAV.' I'm very optimistic that we'll successfully achieve our goal, but much work still needs to be done to fill the months of March, April and May, in the 'SFL-WAV,' and a little bit of luck wouldn't hurt either (it usually comes with hard work).
On a separate note, I read the article by Dr. Sauls that you posted. Although the Wilma avocado is trademarked, it's interesting that "it has demonstrated good cold hardiness," which makes me wonder about how appropriate it would be to fill the 'SFL-WAV.' Thank you for the article, very informative.
P.S. Your kind words of encouragement are very much appreciated, thank you.

:) You are welcome! Keep up the Good work. I'm not an expert, so all this info you're putting up is helping me too..:)

Wilma, and Opal are Trade Marked by Devine Avocados, owned by Bill Schneider, that Mark mentioned. He has done some great work on Avocado growing in Texas.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zambezi on July 23, 2013, 07:43:59 AM

Dr. Sauls was a little pithy but brilliant. Same with Jim Kamas from that article.  He is assigned to my county, is also brilliant, does incredible fast moving workshops and was the Pierce's Disease head honcho hear the research station before the State pulled the funds.  Here we are one the fastest growing, biggest grape and winery industries in the country, and the frickin' State pulls the funds!  Another one of those "go figure".

The publication I referenced is "Fruit Quality Evaluations of Avocado Cultivars for Subtropical Texas", Weslaco, 1991.  I gave The Avocado Man (Bill Schneider of Devine) a copy of it.

Mark

A lot of hard work falls on the way side due to lack of funding. It's a shame.   ::)
Yeah I've been reading all about the Wines from central Texas. Olive trees/oil is another one that shows great promise for the state of Texas.

Great publication Mark. It has some great information. Thanks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 23, 2013, 07:47:09 AM

Dr. Sauls was a little pithy but brilliant. Same with Jim Kamas from that article.  He is assigned to my county, is also brilliant, does incredible fast moving workshops and was the Pierce's Disease head honcho hear the research station before the State pulled the funds.  Here we are one the fastest growing, biggest grape and winery industries in the country, and the frickin' State pulls the funds!  Another one of those "go figure".

The publication I referenced is "Fruit Quality Evaluations of Avocado Cultivars for Subtropical Texas", Weslaco, 1991.  I gave The Avocado Man (Bill Schneider of Devine) a copy of it.

Mark

A lot of hard work falls on the way side due to lack of funding. It's a shame.   ::)
Yeah I've been reading all about the Wines from central Texas. Olive trees/oil is another one that shows great promise for the state of Texas.

Great publication Mark. It has some great information. Thanks.
I have 27 olive trees to make olive oil of lentrisca var.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 23, 2013, 08:57:49 AM

Dr. Sauls was a little pithy but brilliant. Same with Jim Kamas from that article.  He is assigned to my county, is also brilliant, does incredible fast moving workshops and was the Pierce's Disease head honcho hear the research station before the State pulled the funds.  Here we are one the fastest growing, biggest grape and winery industries in the country, and the frickin' State pulls the funds!  Another one of those "go figure".

The publication I referenced is "Fruit Quality Evaluations of Avocado Cultivars for Subtropical Texas", Weslaco, 1991.  I gave The Avocado Man (Bill Schneider of Devine) a copy of it.

Mark


A lot of hard work falls on the way side due to lack of funding. It's a shame.   ::)
Yeah I've been reading all about the Wines from central Texas. Olive trees/oil is another one that shows great promise for the state of Texas.

Great publication Mark. It has some great information. Thanks.


You're welcome.  Texas is headed down the road to be a big olive producer.   New one under quarantine at Novavine is tough as nails and bullet proof is a  6.000 year old wood from Lebanon.  Legend is that it was put aboard Noah's Ark and saved.  Had a workshop on it in Fredericksburg - http://www.cornersoftime.com/fredericksburg-rsvp-invite-packet/ (http://www.cornersoftime.com/fredericksburg-rsvp-invite-packet/)

"Our goal is to introduce our guests to the BELADI name and the statement of quality it made
us naturally adopt on our award-winning olive oils: “This olive oil is made with the BELADI olives
which are still being gifted to the world from the 6,000-year old Mother trees, 16 of which can still be
admired in the village of Bechealeh, Lebanon.”


Central Texas is finally making world class wines (including me :) )  Shameless plug - I've got Mouvedre and Grenache for sale and not yet claimed, will be a week or so for a brix of around 24.  Netted and in excellent shape.   PM me if interested. 

Mark 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 23, 2013, 09:51:57 AM
We've got people experimenting with olives in central FL also since citrus has become increasingly difficult to grow.  I'd love to see acres and acres of olive trees on the hills of central FL where citrus used to grow!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 23, 2013, 09:58:00 AM
We've got people experimenting with olives in central FL also since citrus has become increasingly difficult to grow.  I'd love to see acres and acres of olive trees on the hills of central FL where citrus used to grow!
why citrus are difficult to grow? Olive trees are so beautifull, in my region we are sorrownded of them!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 23, 2013, 11:27:51 AM
We've got people experimenting with olives in central FL also since citrus has become increasingly difficult to grow.  I'd love to see acres and acres of olive trees on the hills of central FL where citrus used to grow!
why citrus are difficult to grow? Olive trees are so beautifull, in my region we are sorrownded of them!
 

Florida has been hit by one citrus disease after another, and it's become devastating to the industry.  Olive trees are beautiful--much better than bare hillsides!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 23, 2013, 01:44:00 PM
We've got people experimenting with olives in central FL also since citrus has become increasingly difficult to grow.  I'd love to see acres and acres of olive trees on the hills of central FL where citrus used to grow!
why citrus are difficult to grow? Olive trees are so beautifull, in my region we are sorrownded of them!

Olive trees grow most anywhere.  Getting them to fruit is the key....they need some chill hours every winter.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on July 23, 2013, 03:13:23 PM
We've got people experimenting with olives in central FL also since citrus has become increasingly difficult to grow.  I'd love to see acres and acres of olive trees on the hills of central FL where citrus used to grow!
why citrus are difficult to grow? Olive trees are so beautifull, in my region we are sorrownded of them!

Olive trees grow most anywhere.  Getting them to fruit is the key....they need some chill hours every winter.
you don't have cold winters? Maby to trying more mild temp var....
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 24, 2013, 10:42:35 PM
Leo the Dupuis avocado is excellent if not the best early cultivar in So Florida. It gets a bump rap because it is not very prolific but taste wise one of my favorites.  It also has a peculiarity that the last fruit set stays small 8-12oz and stays in the tree a long time and get better and better.
By the way the California avocado from Cuban007 was a Hass not a Fuerte. Excellent quality. I still have a couple. I don't understand why Public, Windxie BJ etc.  can not sell California Hass much better than the Mexican, Peruvian and Chiliean Hass.


Carlos, I went to a friends house last week looking for Yamagata and ended up with a bag of late Fuertes and Hass....Here I said Fuerte were nowhere to be found in our area during the summer. Ooppps :P these Fuertes are extremely late and not as good as the ones we ate during the winters.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_6387.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 24, 2013, 11:21:02 PM
'ACT' ('Avocado Cocktail Tree'): As explained previously, this is an avocado tree with different avocado varieties grafted onto it. The idea is to have about two 'ACT's' in the yard, which would then produce avocados year round. Having only about two 'ACTs,' would then free more space to plant other trees in the yard, or at least that's the idea. This is one of the goals of this thread, to have avocados year round (24/7) in the home yard.
Ok now i get it! Sorry my friend, i'm very inexperiente... but that's a fabulous idea! I love to get it here... but it's impossible for shure!

Luisport and Greenthumb, I'm also inexperienced, yet that doesn't stop me from loving to grow avocado trees and fruit, and it isn't that hard to do. So, don't let it stop you either.
I am amazed/impressed at the avocado knowledge that Forum members like Carlos, Nullzero, Zands, Fruitlovers, Mark in Texas, JF and others have, when they talk about sophisticated methods for fertilizing avocados and the like. I respect them very much for that. But, I just like to give the sufficient/minimum amoutn of care so that the avocado tree thrives.
I just give my avocado trees the appropriate amount of water and fertilizer, and that's about it. I also never, never, plant two avocado trees beside each other. I do this is so that if one tree gets a pathogen, it won't easily transfer it to the other.

I'm glad to hear that you think avocado cocktail trees are a good idea for someone who has limited space, but wants avocados year round (24/7), and I agree with you. But, first we must somehow confirm that the 'SFL-WAV' is solved. The only way to decisively do that, is to plant the specific avocado cultivar(s) here in S. Florida, USA, and take it from there.

If you want to do something similar where you are at in Portugal, don't give up hope. There are different ways to go about having avocados year round. And new ways are also coming.
For example, big advances are being made in genomic/genetic/bio engineering, super-computers and AI (Artificial-Intelligence). Before we know it, they'll have the capability to create avocado cultivars for specific months of the year, Temperature Zones and locations. We're pioneers, and it's very exciting that there are so many doors/choices opening and available to pursue. It's a brand new world, and the Internet ties it all together. Thanks for sharing and your kind words.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 26, 2013, 01:56:59 AM
Is anyone getting ripe fruit from these avocado cultivars in Florida? If so, during what months of the year?

pics of different varieties by month

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/IMG_6108.jpg?t=1329285426)

This is how they do it in South California. There, they have avocados year round (24/7).
 
Avocado cultivars ripen in different months of the year at different locations . In order to also have avocados year round (24/7) in South Florida, more information is needed on whether any of the above avocado cultivars will have ripe fruit during the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May. Any and all information that Forum Members can give will be a big help in quickly achieving one of our main goals, "...Avocado 24/7," in South Florida.

P.S.  Thanks to everyone for the continued help/collaboration in this endeavor that's coming from many Forum Members all over the place and especially the great state of Texas. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=369.msg4406#msg4406 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=369.msg4406#msg4406)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on July 26, 2013, 09:00:21 AM
California's climate is so varied that it is really impossible to say with certainty that an avocado variety will ripen on a specific month.  For example, the Hass variety that ripens in March in the southern part of the state, is just now ripening here (August) in San Luis Obispo County (which is a commercial avocado growing area).  We are just 60 miles north from Santa Barbara and climate dictates a much later ripening time. That is true for most avocados and subtropical fruits.  I suspect that avocado growers further north in the Bay area experience even later ripening time.  Fortunately, with transportation, Hass is available almost year 'round.  Then, with Leaven's Hass, Lamb Hass, Carmen Hass and a few other Hass-like avocados, these fruits are in the markets all year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: MangoMan2 on July 26, 2013, 10:49:22 AM
Are any of you growing the Gainesville avocado?

Thanks,

Ed
Georgetown, Tx

Ed, I've been looking for that pear also. Let me know if you have any luck finding one.

Joe.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 26, 2013, 10:17:30 PM
Jack, Nipomo, I agree with you that location can and does have a big impact on what time/month of the year an avocado cultivar will ripen.
My yard is in Zone 10b. I wouldn't be surprised if different avocado cultivars would be needed, to have avocados year round (24/7), in: Zone-9a, Zone-9b,  Zone-10, Zone-10a, Zone-10b...
All this makes it that much more imperative (and exciting and fun), to determine which avocado cultivars are needed, in different locations, in order to have avocados year round (24/7).

Although it's good to have avocados in the market year round (24/7), I'm sure Forum Members agree that it's much better, if year round (24/7) avocados came from the home yard.
I happen to find it very fulfilling, that the fruit that I eat from my yard is free of pesticides.

In JF's quote (also below), he mentions that with just three avocado cultivars, he has the whole year covered with ripe avocados; to my understanding of the meaning.
If JF had those three avocado cultivars in an 'Avocado Cultivars Cocktail Tree' ('ACCT'), then he would have more space left to plant two more fruit trees, or two more 'ACCTs,' or ...
The bottom line seems to be, that avocado growers at different locations, who want to save yard space by having an 'ACCT(s)' that bears ripe fruit year round (24/7), will most likely each need an 'ACCT' made up of different cultivars for their specific location.

California's climate is so varied that it is really impossible to say with certainty that an avocado variety will ripen on a specific month.  For example, the Hass variety that ripens in March in the southern part of the state, is just now ripening here (August) in San Luis Obispo County (which is a commercial avocado growing area).  We are just 60 miles north from Santa Barbara and climate dictates a much later ripening time. That is true for most avocados and subtropical fruits.  I suspect that avocado growers further north in the Bay area experience even later ripening time.  Fortunately, with transportation, Hass is available almost year 'round.  Then, with Leaven's Hass, Lamb Hass, Carmen Hass and a few other Hass-like avocados, these fruits are in the markets all year.

Quote
Eventually I will have a plot of land big enough to plant out all those varieties :P. Fresh avocados all year round :).

Nullzy

A lot of those avocados overlap. I have pinkerton, Hass and Shawill, these will cover the entire year. I also have two later ones, Holiday and Reed,  because of their superior quality.

JF

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 30, 2013, 12:29:27 AM
Carlos, can you please tell me if you know whether 'Wurtz' avocado cultivar ripens in May, in South Florida?

Also, I called Top Tropicals to get confirmation on 'Yamagata' ripening in March and April in S. Florida. But, although they were very nice, all I got was that there's a guy that they got it from, and his fruit ripen in March and April. They told me that they couldn't give me his address. But then, they couldn't even confirm if this guy and his trees, are even in Florida! If I can't get confirmation, I'll remove it from the confirmation '...List,' until we know for sure.

A new avocado cultivar is added to the '...List:' Wurtz avocado cultivar

Avocado Wurtz, Dwarf
Avocado Wurtz is dwarf hybrid. It is very compact and slow growing, reaching only about 10-15 feet at maturity. Great for dooryard or container growing.
The tree can handle temperatures to 25(F) degrees. Fruit is thin-skinned, 10-12 oz. The seed is small and fruit skin is smooth.
Fruits ripen green from May to September. The flavor is very good. Production is good and it is a consistent bearer.
Top Tropicals

The updated 'South Florida: Avocado-Cultivars-Cocktail-Tree & Winter-Avocado-Void List' ('SFL: ACCT & WAV List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe
2 February: Lula
3 March: Yamagata? 
4 April: Yamagata?
5 May: Wurtz?
6 June: Doni, Simmonds     
7 July: Catalina, Simmonds
8 August: Catalina, Simmonds, Miguel
9 September: Catalina, Bacon, Miguel
10 October: Hass, Bacon     
11 November: Hass, Oro-Negro
12 December: Monroe, Oro-Negro

We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the months of March, April and May:
Sharwil, Fujikawa, Yamagata, Wurtz and Jan-Boyce.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on July 30, 2013, 10:02:05 AM
Leeoel, hate to slam a vendor, but if the shoe fits.......  Be careful with Top.  I'd certainly not order from them again based on my losses and issues others have reported.

I hear too many reports about Wurtz being only mediocre regarding fruit quality.  I talked to Julie Frink and she pulled it from her yard.  But then again if you're spoiled and are able to have the best, why bother with mediocre fruit?  Worth a try in Florida perhaps.  Might turn out to be a winner there.

Good luck ~
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: jegpg1 on July 30, 2013, 10:11:24 AM

Olive trees grow most anywhere.  Getting them to fruit is the key....they need some chill hours every winter.
[/quote]

I have one Arbequina planted 2 years ago, slow growth, only 4 foot tall. (It was a couple of feet when I got it). I saw one big tree at ECHO farm in Fort Myers where I got my Nam Doc Mai. I bought my Arbequina from California, it came with few fruits in it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on July 30, 2013, 11:31:05 AM
WURTZ   (Guat.) Regist.1940 Orig.1935 at place of Roy E. Wurtz, Encinitas, CA. Fruit; season, May-Sept.;color, green;weight, 8-10 oz.; shape, pyriform. (CAS Yearbook 1950) Orig. Encinitas, CA, by Roy Wurtz. Introd.1948. Chance seedling planted about 1935;selected about 1940. Fruit: Mex.-Guat. hybrid type; quality good; skin green, med.thick;long oval; size 7-10 oz.Tree:production fair to good; distinctive weeping growth habit, with dense cover of leaves & sm. limbs. (B&O Register) Easily available for the home garden through nurseries. Also called Littlecado or Minicado or Dwarf Hybrid depending on propagating nursery.(J.R. Frink 2000) Origin, CA; Race GxM; Flower group, A (Lahav & Gazit) (originated in 1935 at Encinitas, CA; cultivated in Queensland for only the past12 or13 yrs.);pear shaped,sm.-med.;8-12oz(226-240g); seed lg. Season:May-Sept. in CA;late in Queensland. Tree is small&slow-growing, bears moderately but regularly. More than 100 trees may be planted per acre (240 per ha). (J.Morton 1987)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 30, 2013, 01:04:06 PM
Leeoel, hate to slam a vendor, but if the shoe fits.......  Be careful with Top.  I'd certainly not order from them again based on my losses and issues others have reported had.

I hear too many reports about Wurtz being only mediocre regarding fruit quality.  I talked to Julie Franks and she pulled it from her yard.  But then again if you're spoiled and are able to have the best, why bother with mediocre fruit?  Worth a try in Florida perhaps.  Might turn out to be a winner there.

Good luck ~

Agree....not a great avocado but better than Bacon. I think it was Rob who said that he had a Little Cado or he knew of someone who grew it in Florida.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on July 31, 2013, 12:21:55 AM
Mark in Texas, thanks for the notice about Top. Also, it seems that your hunch may be correct, Wurtz may do better in S. Florida than in California, or even be a winner.
If Top-Tropicals were to be correct about Wurtz avocado ripening May-September, does that mean that they're probably right about Yamagata avocado ripening March-April?
Very interesting!

JF, you thought right.
Check out these quotes by bradflorida and none other than Murahilin and bsbullie:

Wurtz (Little Cado) Avocado - anyone in Florida having luck?
Posted by bradflorida none (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 11, 12 at 16:29
I picked up (impulsively) a Wurtz avocado tree today.
Upon returning home, I couldn't find any references to people from Florida having one of these trees produce fruit.
Anyone have any experience with this variety in Florida?
Or will I just have to use this tree (type A) as a cross pollinator to my type B tree?
Brad
 
RE: Wurtz (Little Cado) Avocado - anyone in Florida having luck?
•   Posted by murahilin 10 fl (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 11, 12 at 17:09
I've seen tons of wurtz trees here in South Florida fruiting really well. I don't know what part of FL you're in but it should do fine.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3519.25 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3519.25)

bsbullie
•   Hero Member
•   Posts: 2996
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Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 08:41:44 PM »
While I know some have bad things to say about Wurtz, I find it is an excellent avocado, taste and texture-wise. It is also a somewhat smaller tree with decent cold hardiness. The drawback I see is that the fruit are on the smaller side and the flesh to seed ratio is lower than some....that ok, cause the quality makes up for it. I would definitely give this one a try.
 Logged
- Rob

bsbullie
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Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 06:22:58 AM »
I am going to repost this from the Oro Negro thread. As we are getting many comments from people in states/Countries other than Florida:
"Ok, Cali vs Fla...whether avocados or mangoes (or anything else), it is not only not fair but difficult at best to compare the fruit grown between the two states. The conditions, from climate, environmental and physical, are just far too different to make fair, equal comparisons. Growth habits, fruiting times, fruit size, fruit shape, fruit color, etc. will all most likely be different...oh, and most of all, I would expect fruit taste and probably texture to be different as well (from posts about avocados and mangoes grown in both states just goes to back this statement up)."
My comment earlier in this thread are based on multiple trees grown in Palm Beach County, Florida, which would be a similar climate, while a little warmer, to Adam's climate in Central Florida.

Jack, Nipomo, it seems that Wurtz does well in S. Florida, and that it's being grown quite extensively. The only thing I need to confirm now, is the period of maturity.
Your quote and Top-Tropicals coincide in that the fruit ripens May-September. Perhaps the period of maturity of the Wurtz can be confirmed by Bradflorida, or Murahilin, or bsbullie.

Also, while I was looking for info on the Wurtz avocado, I found the following about the Reed avocado. Of which, ofdsurfer makes a valid question:
ofdsurfer
•   Member
•   Posts: 231
o   Melbourne Beach FL 32951 10A    
Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 05:42:09 PM »
Uf says reed produces from December to March in FL. That would be the latest variety that I have heard of if that's accurate. I wonder why it's not more popular.

Now I'm also asking myself that same question. Why is Reed avocado not more popular than, say, Monroe, in S. Florida?
This is what the University of Florida (UF) said in a document, last updated in 2007:
According to UF
Donnie, matures  May 21-June 31 (Season of maturity does not correspond with legal maturity; Carlos is right! It ripens in June), resistant to scab, production is Moderate
Lula, matures Oct. 1 – Feb. 15, susceptible to scab, production is High
Monroe, matures Dec 1 – Feb. 15, mildly-susceptible to scab, production is High
Reed, matures Dec. 14 – March 7, resistant to scab, production is High
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on July 31, 2013, 08:46:17 AM
We could definitely use a trial grove!  How about Fairchild?  Are they testing all the various avocado cultivars?  I know Carlos is doing a great job at his place.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 31, 2013, 07:49:10 PM
Mark in Texas, thanks for the notice about Top. Also, it seems that your hunch may be correct, Wurtz may do better in S. Florida than in California, or even be a winner.
If Top-Tropicals were to be correct about Wurtz avocado ripening May-September, does that mean that they're probably right about Yamagata avocado ripening March-April?
Very interesting!

JF, you thought right.
Check out these quotes by bradflorida and none other than Murahilin and bsbullie:

Wurtz (Little Cado) Avocado - anyone in Florida having luck?
Posted by bradflorida none (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 11, 12 at 16:29
I picked up (impulsively) a Wurtz avocado tree today.
Upon returning home, I couldn't find any references to people from Florida having one of these trees produce fruit.
Anyone have any experience with this variety in Florida?
Or will I just have to use this tree (type A) as a cross pollinator to my type B tree?
Brad
 
RE: Wurtz (Little Cado) Avocado - anyone in Florida having luck?
•   Posted by murahilin 10 fl (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 11, 12 at 17:09
I've seen tons of wurtz trees here in South Florida fruiting really well. I don't know what part of FL you're in but it should do fine.

[url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3519.25[/url] ([url]http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3519.25[/url])

bsbullie
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•   Posts: 2996
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Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 08:41:44 PM »
While I know some have bad things to say about Wurtz, I find it is an excellent avocado, taste and texture-wise. It is also a somewhat smaller tree with decent cold hardiness. The drawback I see is that the fruit are on the smaller side and the flesh to seed ratio is lower than some....that ok, cause the quality makes up for it. I would definitely give this one a try.
 Logged
- Rob

bsbullie
•   Hero Member
•   Posts: 2996
o   USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 06:22:58 AM »
I am going to repost this from the Oro Negro thread. As we are getting many comments from people in states/Countries other than Florida:
"Ok, Cali vs Fla...whether avocados or mangoes (or anything else), it is not only not fair but difficult at best to compare the fruit grown between the two states. The conditions, from climate, environmental and physical, are just far too different to make fair, equal comparisons. Growth habits, fruiting times, fruit size, fruit shape, fruit color, etc. will all most likely be different...oh, and most of all, I would expect fruit taste and probably texture to be different as well (from posts about avocados and mangoes grown in both states just goes to back this statement up)."
My comment earlier in this thread are based on multiple trees grown in Palm Beach County, Florida, which would be a similar climate, while a little warmer, to Adam's climate in Central Florida.

Jack, Nipomo, it seems that Wurtz does well in S. Florida, and that it's being grown quite extensively. The only thing I need to confirm now, is the period of maturity.
Your quote and Top-Tropicals coincide in that the fruit ripens May-September. Perhaps the period of maturity of the Wurtz can be confirmed by Bradflorida, or Murahilin, or bsbullie.

Also, while I was looking for info on the Wurtz avocado, I found the following about the Reed avocado. Of which, ofdsurfer makes a valid question:
ofdsurfer
•   Member
•   Posts: 231
o   Melbourne Beach FL 32951 10A    
Re: What's up With Wurtz (avocado) ?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 05:42:09 PM »
Uf says reed produces from December to March in FL. That would be the latest variety that I have heard of if that's accurate. I wonder why it's not more popular.

Now I'm also asking myself that same question. Why is Reed avocado not more popular than, say, Monroe, in S. Florida?
This is what the University of Florida (UF) said in a document, last updated in 2007:
According to UF
Donnie, matures  May 21-June 31 (Season of maturity does not correspond with legal maturity; Carlos is right! It ripens in June), resistant to scab, production is Moderate
Lula, matures Oct. 1 – Feb. 15, susceptible to scab, production is High
Monroe, matures Dec 1 – Feb. 15, mildly-susceptible to scab, production is High
Reed, matures Dec. 14 – March 7, resistant to scab, production is High


Leo,a while back I posts pics of a fellow CRFG little Cado in Huntington Beach. The tree is 10 years old and 8X10 and according to him taste as good as any home grown Hass.... I beg to differ.

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on July 31, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
I am actually going to experiment with a seedling of 'Reed' avocado in the ground in FL. Its very vigorous and healthy, might be crossed with hass. If fruit is no good, I will graft it down the road.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on July 31, 2013, 08:14:12 PM
I am actually going to experiment with a seedling of 'Reed' avocado in the ground in FL. Its very vigorous and healthy, might be crossed with hass. If fruit is no good, I will graft it down the road.

Nullzy, I would grafted that reed or whatever other seedling you have with a sir prize....I'll give scion. Carlos is having great success with this variety. I have a hunch this one might work in Florida.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on July 31, 2013, 08:27:45 PM
I am actually going to experiment with a seedling of 'Reed' avocado in the ground in FL. Its very vigorous and healthy, might be crossed with hass. If fruit is no good, I will graft it down the road.

Nullzy, I would grafted that reed or whatever other seedling you have with a sir prize....I'll give scion. Carlos is having great success with this variety. I have a hunch this one might work in Florida.

I would, do it with another root stock. This seedling is one of the few seedlings to survive young chill 30s with out slowing down, also one of the healthiest with good vigor. Small chance of great fruit, but I rather wait it out then decide.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 01, 2013, 12:16:15 AM
johnb51, I've been meaning to schedule an appointment for a tour of the Williams Grove at the Fairchild Farm, thank you for reminding me. I think you're right, in that they are growing many avocado cultivars there. Thus, they may have valuable information about filling the 'South Florida-Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV').

JF, thank you for your valuable opinion of the 'Wurtz'.
Although I would like to know if the fruit ripens in May as Top... says, what specially puts me off about the 'Wurtz' is:
small fruit, flesh to seed ratio is lower than some, and to top it all off, it's a small tree, topping off about 10 feet tall. I wish the tree were taller, so it could have more fruit.

Nullzero, it would be great though, if you did get a great fruit from that 'Reed' avocado seedling, and it filled the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May.
After getting myself a 'Monroe' avocado tree this year, I'm now kinda wishing that I had gotten a 'Reed' instead.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 01, 2013, 08:55:09 AM
Nullzero, it would be great though, if you did get a great fruit from that 'Reed' avocado seedling, and it filled the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May.
After getting myself a 'Monroe' avocado tree this year, I'm now kinda wishing that I had gotten a 'Reed' instead.

Reed ripens late and being Guat. takes about 18 mos. to ripen after flowering.  You need to talk to Carlos.  He told me that Reed produces small fruit compared to the 24 ouncers in California.    Also, Pine Island gave up on the Reed (and Pinkerton) "cause it doesn't work in Florida" according to Jim there.   I love Reed and Cali growers have a saying, "we sell Hass and keep the Reeds for ourselves".   

I have it in a greenhouse budded on one or your Florida pits and it is doing extremely well, in spite of the heat.  No insect or disease pressures compared my others (mites and white flies attack).  As of late I'm getting high temp peaks of 102F in there, our lows now are low to upper 70's.  It seems to love it.  Weird for a guatemalan.......

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on August 01, 2013, 11:34:42 AM
johnb51, I've been meaning to schedule an appointment for a tour of the Williams Grove at the Fairchild Farm, thank you for reminding me. I think you're right, in that they are growing many avocado cultivars there. Thus, they may have valuable information about filling the 'South Florida-Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV').

JF, thank you for your valuable opinion of the 'Wurtz'.
Although I would like to know if the fruit ripens in May as Top... says, what specially puts me off about the 'Wurtz' is:
small fruit, flesh to seed ratio is lower than some, and to top it all off, it's a small tree, topping off about 10 feet tall. I wish the tree were taller, so it could have more fruit.

Nullzero, it would be great though, if you did get a great fruit from that 'Reed' avocado seedling, and it filled the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May.
After getting myself a 'Monroe' avocado tree this year, I'm now kinda wishing that I had gotten a 'Reed' instead.

Will see how it turns out. I am hoping for large fruits like the source 'Reed' tree.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 02, 2013, 01:26:35 AM
Mark in Texas, maybe that's the reason for all the commotion in this Forum about having a 'Monroe' and/or 'Lula' for the months of January and February, because 'Reed' simply is not an option.
It's incredible the disparity in opinion from UF Documents to reliable information from S. FL nursery experts.
It's a stark contrast when we consider that the verdict is unanymous for 'Monroe' and 'Lula' in those two months of the year.

Nullzero, that's the spirit, maybe for a 'Reed' to do well in S. Florida is that it needs to be a seedling. It would be interesting to find out the result of your experiment.

Today I spoke on the phone with Dr. Carlos Balerdi. He told me that two separate individuals have each been able to obtain/develop an avocado cultivar that fills the 'SFL-WAV.'
One of them has patented the new cultivar, and the other seems to be on the same path. I'll report more on this if more information is forthcoming.
Dr. Balerdi told me that whoever is able to obtain/develop an avocado cultivar, that has a season of maturity (ripening) in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May, is on his way to get some good serious money. Obviously, because in those months, there are no avocados that are ripening in S. Florida; except for imported fruit.

I have to agree with Johnb51:

We could definitely use a trial grove!  How about Fairchild?  Are they testing all the various avocado cultivars?  I know Carlos is doing a great job at his place.

Because these two individuals have been able to commercially obtain/develop avocado cultivars that ripen in the 'SFL-WAV' months, this proves that the goal of "...Avocado 24/7" in S. Florida is possible. And, now we know that it's more than just possible, it seems it has already been achieved, albeit commercially.

There are many (unpatented) avocado cultivars in California, Hawaii, Australia, etc. that have not been tried in S. Florida. It's possible that with a trial grove of all those cultivars, as johnb51 suggests, one or more avocado cultivars could then be quickly found, and fill the 'SFL-WAV.' In the web page of the William's Grove at the Fairchild Farm, that Dr. Richarc Campbel manages, it says that:
"The grove consists of  ‘Bernecker’, ‘Beta’, ‘Donnie’, ‘Hall’ ‘Miguel’,  and ‘Simmonds’ avocados, cultivars desirable for commercial sale in the United States." It seems to me that those are the only cultivars that they have. If this is the case, they don't have a lot.

This information reinforces my belief that we're on the right track, that in order to fill the 'SFL-WAV,' this problem must be attacked from two fronts:
(1)  By usind seedlings, perhaps of 'Reed,' as Nullzero is doing, and
(2)  By planting, in South Florida, avocado cultivars such as 'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Yamagata', 'Jan-Boyce', 'Wurtz' and others, and see how they perform.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 02, 2013, 07:37:39 AM
what avocado varieties you think are more cold hardy or i should have? I already have reed, bacon and hass. Thank's! :D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on August 02, 2013, 08:19:42 AM
Leo, who is Dr. Carlos Balerdi?  Is he with UF's TREC?  Good news that there are others trying to fill the winter-to-spring void in Florida-grown avocado cultivars!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 02, 2013, 09:11:28 PM
Leo, who is Dr. Carlos Balerdi?  Is he with UF Tropical Ag Research?

Carlos Balerdi, Ph.D. is now retired but volunteers several days per week for TREC. Dr. Balerdi is:
A commercial tropical fruit specialist for the Miami-Dade County Agricultural Extension Service
Tropical fruit agent with UF's Multi-County Extension Program.
Besides being very knowlegeable, Dr. Balerdi is also a very nice person. I've met him several times.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 04, 2013, 01:12:59 PM
Just to add to the number of trees being under the "watch" I just took a close look at a tree I'm growing: The Utuado Avocado. There is little information about this tree anywhere. I saw it a couple of years ago in Fairchild Williams Farm and ask about it because it had a lot of fruit on and was told it was a late variety. The tree is also at the USDA Chapman field so at some point somewhere it was considered of value.

My top worked tree has a decent number of fruit for a first year. I had been watching it and if flowers after the Monroe and sets fruit latter as well. The other very important feature is that the fruit is super clean no sign of any disease. I'm kind of hoping this fruit will hang on longer than the Monroe. But if the same and turns out to be good quality is a better choice on the disease front.
More on this: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html)

(http://s17.postimg.cc/f3aywxbu3/IMG_1500.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/f3aywxbu3/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 04, 2013, 01:19:11 PM
Here they are my trees... osteen mango and his baby
([url]http://s22.postimg.cc/yxoexx1kt/foto0101.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/yxoexx1kt/[/url])

([url]http://s15.postimg.cc/41pi4zr6v/foto0102.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/41pi4zr6v/[/url])
kent mango
([url]http://s23.postimg.cc/q8sjie3jb/foto0121.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/q8sjie3jb/[/url])
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 04, 2013, 01:20:00 PM
3 avocado var.: hass
([url]http://s9.postimg.cc/tqx26cfpn/foto0118.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/tqx26cfpn/[/url])
bacon
([url]http://s8.postimg.cc/q20zaqwwx/foto0120.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/q20zaqwwx/[/url])
reed
([url]http://s14.postimg.cc/cc6uxqokd/foto0119.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/cc6uxqokd/[/url])
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: mikesid on August 04, 2013, 03:22:17 PM
what avocado varieties you think are more cold hardy or i should have? I already have reed, bacon and hass. Thank's! :D
Lula is supposed to be more cold hardy...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 04, 2013, 03:36:23 PM
what avocado varieties you think are more cold hardy or i should have? I already have reed, bacon and hass. Thank's! :D
Lula is supposed to be more cold hardy...
Ok thank's! I never see it here...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 05, 2013, 12:21:42 AM
A new avocado cultivar is added to the "Watch" List: 'Utuado' avocado cultivar.
The 'Utuado' is currently under evaluation by CTMIAMI, so far it seems to have some good qualities and has the potential to fill the 'SFL-WAV.' We'll have to wait for the evaluation to be completed.

The updated 'South Florida: Winter-Avocado-Void/Avocado-Cultivars-Cocktail-Tree List' ('SFL: WAV/ACCT List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe
2 February: Lula
3 March: Yamagata? 
4 April: Yamagata?
5 May: Wurtz?
6 June: Doni, Simmonds     
7 July: Catalina, Simmonds
8 August: Catalina, Simmonds, Miguel
9 September: Catalina, Bacon, Miguel
10 October: Hass, Bacon     
11 November: Hass, Oro-Negro
12 December: Monroe, Oro-Negro

"Watch" List: We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the months of March, April and May:
'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Yamagata', 'Utuado', 'Wurtz' and 'Jan-Boyce.'

OK Carlos, I’ve put the ‘Utuado’ avocado in the “Watch” List. By the way, I know that you’re a busy man, but it’s good to hear from you when we do, and thank you for everything you’re doing.
I followed your link to your wonderful webpage, it’s full of very useful information.
The ‘Utuado’ avocado that you mention looks very clean & healthy with some other top qualities. I hope it’s reliably productive, and that it fills the ‘SFL-WAV.’ I know that’s a lot to ask, but it’s good to stay positive and keep pushing until success is achieved.

I was also pleasantly surprised when I first noticed on your web-page, that you have ‘Yamagata’ and ‘Fujikawa’ under evaluation. That is just awesome, I have high hopes that one or both will fill the ‘SFL-WAV.’

I noticed that the ‘Sharwil’ avocado is missing on your web-page, in the “Under Evaluation” section. Hopefully, the Tropical Fruit Forum Members that said they were willing to send you ‘Sharwil’ budwood don’t forget and be so kind as to send it when available. I wouldn’t mind if they sent it to me. I would graft the ‘Sharwil’ budwood onto a ‘Catalina’ seedling. But, I’d much rather they sent it to you if that’s OK, since you are much more experienced with grafting/avocados.

P.S. I’m impressed with all the scientific mentioning of avocado 'germplasm' in your web-page, I have to put that in my 'To Learn List,' so I hope to understand soon (God willing) how that works.
I understand it for bananas, but not yet for avocados.
 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 05, 2013, 08:07:20 AM
Links to all the repositories - http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/rephomepgs.html (http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/rephomepgs.html)

Should be able to find your cultivar in a list.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on August 05, 2013, 09:14:01 AM
Wonder if the "Utado" from PR that is growing at UC South Coast Research Station in CA is the same one?

http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp (http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 05, 2013, 09:46:58 PM
Jack, yes that Utuado is the same. This is what I can't understand: Its in the USDA Miami, Willians Farm Collection and California  at UCRT and no one is growing it and none of the growers I talk to have ever heard of it.?

Leo, I don't think the Yamagatas are going to fill the void of March or April. Also Catalina is a fruit that if picked too early will taste "green" Is more of a September fruit in So. Florida. My Fujikawa did not take. I only got two pieces and they were not too fresh.   I have a lot more new trees coming this year. Reed, Green Gold, Linda, Winter Mexican and Winter Mexican Seedling that should be good for February and Early March. Don't  forget Don Carlitos avocado I know is February-March for sure, may be an alternate bearer , but is OK for now. It may behave different once is irrigated and fertilizes http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html)

Don Carlitos Avocado
(http://s21.postimg.cc/vetjho2n7/IMG_1154.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vetjho2n7/)

The National Germplasm Repository (genebank) at the Subtropical Horticulture Research Station (SHRS) in Miami, has some interesting early fruit, little know, that I intend to get bud wood from in December. Vero Beach Avocado and Cellons Avocado these are B flower Mexican Hybrids they flower early in So. Florida. Simonds is a Late June, better in July fruit. SO is Donie in July they taste better so there is need for a good tasting late May- early June fruit. That is what I,m looking for in these two.

Also the Hawaiians like San Miguel, Kalahuu, Malama, Muragishe  Plus Californians like Gwen, Santa Ana Hass, Lamb Hass, Sir Prize, Holiday etc. we have no idea when that fruit will be ready in So. E Florida.  There are some exiting month ahead.  There may still be room for Florida Hass in September.  Even on the Pinkerton some people I talked to said it was very good tasting but not grown because of production issues so may not have a commercial future but may be it has a homeowners. I 'm growing one so I can know for sure. Etc. Etc.  I don't believe what others repeat.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 05, 2013, 10:06:44 PM
Jack, yes that Utuado is the same. This is what I can't understand: Its in the USDA Miami, Willians Farm Collection and California  at UCRT and no one is growing it and none of the growers I talk to have ever heard of it.?

Leo, I don't think the Yamagatas are going to fill the void of March or April. Also Catalina is a fruit that if picked too early will taste "green" Is more of a September fruit in So. Florida. My Fujikawa did not take. I only got two pieces and they were not too fresh.   I have a lot more new trees coming this year. Reed, Green Gold, Linda, Winter Mexican and Winter Mexican Seedling that should be good for February and Early March. Don't  forget Don Carlitos avocado I know is February-March for sure, may be an alternate bearer , but is OK for now. It may behave different once is irrigated and fertilizes [url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html[/url] ([url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html[/url])

Don Carlitos Avocado
([url]http://s21.postimg.cc/vetjho2n7/IMG_1154.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/vetjho2n7/[/url])

The National Germplasm Repository (genebank) at the Subtropical Horticulture Research Station (SHRS) in Miami, has some interesting early fruit, little know, that I intend to get bud wood from in December. Vero Beach Avocado and Cellons Avocado these are B flower Mexican Hybrids they flower early in So. Florida. Simonds is a Late June, better in July fruit. SO is Donie in July they taste better so there is need for a good tasting late May- early June fruit. That is what I,m looking for in these two.

Also the Hawaiians like San Miguel, Kalahuu, Malama, Muragishe  Plus Californians like Gwen, Santa Ana Hass, Lamb Hass, Sir Prize, Holiday etc. we have no idea when that fruit will be ready in So. E Florida.  There are some exiting month ahead.  There may still be room for Florida Hass in September.  Even on the Pinkerton some people I talked to said it was very good tasting but not grown because of production issues so may not have a commercial future but may be it has a homeowners. I 'm growing one so I can know for sure. Etc. Etc.  I don't believe what others repeat.


Carlos it's hard to judge when a California variety will ripen in Miami but here is an example of a Pinkerton in La Habra. UC extension at Irvine says this variety will ripen in Feb. my Pinkerton will be ready by Oct. or Nov.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_6520.jpg)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 05, 2013, 10:56:38 PM
JF  Pinkerton begins to get picked in October 1 in So. Florida. I venture to say not many trees left. I will make it a Point to find one. What is interesting is that So. Cal is very close to us on the Pinkerton since you indicate yours are ready in October November.. So maturity day in your house is very close to us in So Florida. What fruit ripens in February-April in your house?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 05, 2013, 10:59:03 PM
JF  Pinkerton begins to get picked in October 1 in So. Florida. I venture to say not many trees left. I will make it a Point to find one. What is interesting is that So. Cal is very close to us on the Pinkerton since you indicate yours are ready in October November.. So maturity day in your house is very close to us in So Florida. What fruit ripens in February-April in your house?

Fuerte Carlos
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 06, 2013, 01:19:22 AM
Wonder if the "Utado" from PR that is growing at UC South Coast Research Station in CA is the same one?
[url]http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp[/url] ([url]http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp[/url])


Jack, Nipomo, that’s one of the best, valid, list of avocado cultivars that I’ve ever seen. I doubt that all of them have been tried in S. Florida. I suspect that one or more on this list can fill the ‘SFL-WAV.’  Very informative list, will be checking it out, thanks for the link.

Carlos, you’re doing a great job having those avocado cultivars ‘Under Evaluation.” If you don’t think that Yamagata will fill the ‘SFL-WAV’ then so be it, next! Maybe it’ll be good for the dooryard and/or cocktail trees. The important thing is that your research is producing answers and direction.

So that’s why the ‘Catalina’s’ taste was off, because it wasn’t mature enough. I did some guacamole and it tasted great, but I noticed that “green” avocado taste that you’re talking about.

About the Fujikawa, it happens, hopefully you’ll be able to get some fresh ones and try again. From what I’ve gathered, this seems like a promising avocado for S. Florida, so the effort may be worth it.

You mention above some very interesting avocado cultivars that could fill the ‘SFL-WAV.’  It looks like the “Watch” List is about to get bigger.

Carlos, I never stop being amazed at the incredible, professional, job that you’re doing.
As you’ve said above, “there are some exciting months ahead,” and I’m sure looking forward to them.

The updated 'South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void/Avocado-Cultivars-Cocktail-Tree List' ('SFL WAV/ACCT List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe
2 February: Lula, Don-Carlitos (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?)
3 March: Don-Carlitos (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?)
4 April: ?
5 May: Wurtz?
6 June: Doni, Simmonds
7 July: Doni, Simmonds, Catalina
8 August: Catalina, Simmonds, Miguel
9 September: Catalina, Bacon, Miguel
10 October: Hass, Bacon
11 November: Hass, Oro-Negro
12 December: Monroe, Oro-Negro

"Watch" List
We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May:
'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Utuado', 'Wurtz,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ and ‘Linda.’  ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling’ (per CTMIAMI: that should be good for February and Early March). Also, ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ Avocado and ‘Cellons’ Avocado. Hawaiians like, ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kalahuu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Muragishe-Plus.’ And, Californians like, ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ and ‘Holiday.’
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 06, 2013, 11:36:56 AM
Leo see JF comments above. Fuerte matures in his house Feb-March. His house in So. Cal is very close to So. Florida in some maturities. Fuerte is really good.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 06, 2013, 01:20:37 PM
Carlos, the Pinkerton bloomed in December.....it was the earliest of all the avocados. When do yours usually start to bloom?? I picked Fuertes off my friends tree in Santa Ana two weeks ago, they stay on the tree for a long time down there.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 06, 2013, 03:06:12 PM
JF. The Pinkerton tree That I have is the bud wood I got in Dec or January so Its growing very well but it has not flowered yet. Hope it flowers this year some times they dont in the first year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 06, 2013, 11:18:34 PM
Leo see JF comments above. Fuerte matures in his house Feb-March. His house in So. Cal is very close to So. Florida in some maturities. Fuerte is really good.

Carlos, I took a look at JF's comments above as you suggested. And, you're-right/we're-in-full-agreement (thanks JF), it's better to verify and not believe what others say, and put the 'Fuerte' avocado back on the "Watch" List and wait for the results of your webpage's "Under Evaluation" column.

The updated 'South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void/Avocado-Cultivars-Cocktail-Tree List' ('S.FL WAV/ACCT List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe
2 February: Lula, Don-Carlitos (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?)
3 March: Don-Carlitos (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?)
4 April: ?
5 May: Wurtz?
6 June: Doni, Simmonds (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: Doni, Simmonds, Catalina
8 August: Catalina, Simmonds, Miguel
9 September: Catalina, Bacon, Miguel
10 October: Hass, Bacon
11 November: Hass, Oro-Negro
12 December: Monroe, Oro-Negro

"Watch" List
We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May:
Group 1: 'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Utuado', 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling’ (per CTMIAMI: that should be good for February and Early March). Also,
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ Avocado and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: Hawaiians like, ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kalahuu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Muragishe-Plus.’ And,
Group 5: Californians like, ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ and ‘Holiday.’
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 06, 2013, 11:42:07 PM
Carlos and Leo, my Sir Prize are sizing up and it looks like some will be ready again by thanksgiving. This variety extends to late February early March in La Habra.

(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af304/culov/Tropica%20fruits/IMG_6547.jpg)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 07, 2013, 12:06:34 AM
JF, that's a real beauty. I sure hope 'Fuerte' works out good for S. Florida, it's an exceptional cultivar in California, thanx for the 'Fuerte' pic.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Illia on August 07, 2013, 01:40:56 AM
Just have to say, I love this thread! Have been lurking it for a little while. Originally I thought both Mangoes and Avocados to be very seasonal fruits, but, I'm excited to read otherwise here. I'm also excited to re-read and see that my first Avocado is an all-winter bearer.

Question - Is Rosy-Gold and Rosigold the same thing? I'm assuming so, I just want a confirmation. It looks like it will go on my top 3 for my next mangoes to get. :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on August 07, 2013, 10:31:08 AM
JF, that's a real beauty. I sure hope 'Fuerte' works out good for S. Florida, it's an exceptional cultivar in California, thanx for the 'Fuerte' pic.


Lula should be listed late October onward to late January, early February
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on August 07, 2013, 10:36:39 AM
I know you're doing a month-by-month breakdown, Leo, and trying to cover the blank months, but the great thing about LULA is that the fruit can be picked as early as October, and then will just hang on the tree until whenever (hopefully Feb.), especially if you hold back on feeding the tree nitrogen, so the homeowner could cover several months with Lula alone.  Also, I really like the flavor of Lula--a little sweet, yet nutty and rich, with sufficient oil content.  I'm still hoping to squeeze a Lula tree in somewhere!

(zands, I wrote this the same time as you!)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 07, 2013, 11:08:55 AM
I agree on the Lula, I have seen Lula's full of fruit in February. I don't know how well they produce the following year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 07, 2013, 02:43:31 PM
Just have to say, I love this thread! Have been lurking it for a little while. Originally I thought both Mangoes and Avocados to be very seasonal fruits, but, I'm excited to read otherwise here. I'm also excited to re-read and see that my first Avocado is an all-winter bearer.

Question - Is Rosy-Gold and Rosigold the same thing? I'm assuming so, I just want a confirmation. It looks like it will go on my top 3 for my next mangoes to get. :)

Curious, are you growing in a greenhouse?  8b?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 07, 2013, 02:48:02 PM
I agree on the Lula, I have seen Lula's full of fruit in February. I don't know how well they produce the following year.


Like I said, your growing conditions are similar to south Texas where Lula is the main commercial variety grown.  Here's what Dr. Julian Sauls has to say about fruiting:

'Lula' is the variety of commerce in the lower Rio Grande Valley, with fruits nearing a pound in size and having a green, thick peel which resists disease quite well. It matures in October and stores well on-tree into January or February. 'Lula' sustains severe freeze damage below 27 degrees, although it commonly regrows from below ground. Seeds from 'Lula' are the preferred rootstock for all avocados in South Texas, as it is fairly tolerant to existing soil salinity.


http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/fruit/avocado2.html (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/fruit/avocado2.html)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 08, 2013, 02:31:38 AM
Illia, I must say that I adore my 'Rosy-Gold' mango tree. It bears my first mangoes of the year, and I'm trying to somehow trick it to start bearing fruit earlier, in February (that would be great!).
To me, this mango cultivar is an 'institution' in my yard.

Also, I'm curious, maybe you've seen something that I've missed. Which avocado variety are you referring to whose fruit mature throughout all winter? It sounds like the Winter-Avocado-Void (WAV) Holy Grail. And, thank you for your kind words, I'm glad this thread is to your liking. Many of us on this thread make an effort that it provides usefull "Mango and/or Avocado 24/7" information.

Lula should be listed late October onward to late January, early February

Zands, you're correct, the 'S.FL-WAV/ACCT List' will reflect the 'Lula" avocado fruit maturity season. Also, I'm in Zone 10b in Miami, FL, USA, and I've noticed that the further South you go, the longer the fruit stays on the 'Lula.' As I've mentioned before, I picked the last fruit off a 'Lula' avocado tree this year around the 10th of March!

Johnb51, thank you for mentioning those good techniques for getting the most out of 'Lula', the 'workhorse' of avocado cultivars.

CTMIAMI, that's exactly how the 'Lula' that I just mentioned above to Zands, behaved this year (full of fruit in February). I guess I've been taking it for granted that it would behave the same way next year, we'll have to wait and see, keeping my fingers crossed. But, based on the 'Lula's' reputation, my bet is that it'll do a repeat.

A thought just came to mind (if it's doable), maybe crossing the 'Lula' with another quality avocado cultivar, will produce an even more formidable new avocado cultivar, it's been done with mangoes!

Mark in Texas, thanks for that quoted, very informative description, of the behavior of 'Lula' avocado in Texas, that Dr. Julian Sauls sure knows about avocados.

The updated 'South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void/Avocado-Cultivars-Cocktail-Tree List' ('S.FL WAV/ACCT List'):

1 Janurary: Monroe, Lula
2 February: Lula, Don-Carlitos (per CTMIAMI: alternate bearer?)
3 March: Don-Carlitos (per CTMIAMI: alternate bearer?)
4 April: ?
5 May: Wurtz?
6 June: Doni, Simmonds (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: Doni, Simmonds, Catalina
8 August: Catalina, Simmonds, Miguel
9 September: Catalina, Bacon, Miguel
10 October: FL-Hass, Lula, Bacon
11 November: FL-Hass, Lula, Oro-Negro
12 December: Monroe, Lula, Oro-Negro

"Watch" List
We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May:
Group 1: 'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Utuado', 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling’ (per CTMIAMI: that should be good for February and Early March). Also,
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ Avocado and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: Hawaiians like, ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kalahuu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Muragishe-Plus.’ And,
Group 5: Californians like, ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ and ‘Holiday.’
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 08, 2013, 10:02:32 AM
http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html (http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html)

Interesting article on extending the avocado season
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on August 08, 2013, 09:23:00 PM
[url]http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html[/url] ([url]http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html[/url])

Interesting article on extending the avocado season


Good article, Carlos.  But then I read the 2 articles on laurel wilt disease, and they're a bit scary.  How do you feel about this disease?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 08, 2013, 10:55:43 PM
John the answer to that question could take all day. I think the University and Gov scientist have been slow reacting. The Local avocado industry does not have the cloud of the Ca or even the FL citrus industry.  It is a very deadly and fast acting killer.
With current technology the trees can be protected but you have to inject the tree with Tilt (propiconazole) but is like every one is experimenting on their own. There is a special label for Tilt used in avocado from Syngenta. There are no set guidelines and for the homeowners there are no protocols to follow, just lose the tree. When in actuality for about $2.00 of Tilt and reusable equipment you can make for under $25.00 a tree can be injected. But the makers of the fungicide will probably not sell to homeowners and the simple equipment that I use is not "label" for that use, regulations, law suits, red tape, labels, testing etc.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 08, 2013, 11:40:22 PM
Leo, here are 2 more Hawaii avocados for your dry-months you can add to your list.


(http://s23.postimg.cc/x1qk2fcxj/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/x1qk2fcxj/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 09, 2013, 01:44:18 AM
johnb51, now that we are in the cusp of having '...avocado 24/7' (about 10 years from now, per Carlos' linked article), it would be a shame if this problem is not solved by a/some scientist(s).

Carlos, very nice article, it goes to show that the effort to have avocados in Florida 24/7 is growing all the time. And, the more, the merrier. To be honest with you, I want to close the 'WAV' window in Florida very much, and I'm prepared to do anything I can to help accomplish it. But, when it comes down to it, I for one don't care who gets the credit for it. I just want to get this done 'yesterday.' That's just how I feel about it, and I have nothing against those who are looking for the credit to themselves. The goal of this thread is to find "...avocado 24/7" cultivars for S. Florida, so that anyone who wants avocados year round (24/7) in their home yard, can do so, whether by separately planted trees or ACCT's.

JF, feel free to provide the specs. and any opinion of them that you may think would be good to know.

Luisport, that's a great recommendation of the 'Lula' by Mikesid. If I were you, I would also check/research on the lowest temperature that the 'Lula' can take, and compare it to the lowest recorded temperatures where you are. Also, keep in mind that a great way to find/grow new good quality avocado trees where you are, is to grow them from seed. Although seedlings take longer to fruit, you may find what you're looking for. The trick to achieve success, is to plant as many seedlings as you possible can, and have the space for.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 09, 2013, 06:47:29 AM
johnb51, now that we are in the cusp of having '...avocado 24/7' (about 10 years from now, per Carlos' linked article), it would be a shame if this problem is not solved by a/some scientists(s).

Carlos, very nice article, it goes to show that the effort to have avocados in Florida 24/7 is growing all the time. And, the more, the merrier. To be honest with you, I want to close the 'WAV' window in Florida very much, and I'm prepared to do anything I can to help accomplish it. But, when it comes down to it, I for one don't care who gets the credit for it. I just want to get this done 'yesterday.' That's just how I feel about it, and I have nothing against those who are looking for the credit to themselves. The goal of this thread is to find "...avocado 24/7" cultivars for S. Florida, so that anyone who wants avocados year round (24/7) in their home yard, can do so, whether by separately planted trees or ACCT's.

JF, feel free to provide the specs. and any opinion of them that you may think would be good to know.

Luisport, that's a great recommendation of the 'Lula' by Mikesid. If I were you, I would also check/research on the lowest temperature that the 'Lula' can take, and compare it to the lowest recorded temperatures where you are. Also, keep in mind that a great way to find/grow new good quality avocado trees where you are, is to grow them from seed. Although seedlings take longer to fruit, you may find what you're looking for. The trick to achieve success, is to plant as many seedlings as you possible can, and have the space for.
Thank's Leoo, but i can't find lula cultivar here...  but i don't have any major problema with avocados... there are big trees even in north that is much colder than where i live. But thank you so much for your tips!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 09, 2013, 06:30:15 PM
Luis interesting that avocados are growing there. I guess is because the Atlantic Ocean keep it area warmer?
Fatima is in the list of my places to visit hopefully next year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: ScottR on August 09, 2013, 10:42:20 PM
Yes Luis, very interesting that they are growing there can you list any named varieties and brief description please!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 09, 2013, 11:38:53 PM
johnb51, now that we are in the cusp of having '...avocado 24/7' (about 10 years from now, per Carlos' linked article), it would be a shame if this problem is not solved by a/some scientists(s).

Carlos, very nice article, it goes to show that the effort to have avocados in Florida 24/7 is growing all the time. And, the more, the merrier. To be honest with you, I want to close the 'WAV' window in Florida very much, and I'm prepared to do anything I can to help accomplish it. But, when it comes down to it, I for one don't care who gets the credit for it. I just want to get this done 'yesterday.' That's just how I feel about it, and I have nothing against those who are looking for the credit to themselves. The goal of this thread is to find "...avocado 24/7" cultivars for S. Florida, so that anyone who wants avocados year round (24/7) in their home yard, can do so, whether by separately planted trees or ACCT's.

JF, feel free to provide the specs. and any opinion of them that you may think would be good to know.



Hi Leo
I don't have much information other than it's a very ordinary winter avocado. Maybe Oscar can chime in and tell us about these Hawaiian varieties that is grown at SCREC in Irvine CA
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 10, 2013, 12:34:06 AM
Luisport, I learn something new pretty much everyday in this Forum, I am am also as surprised as Carlos. I had no idea that all types of large tree avocados grew there. It seems to me that you're living in a wonderful, real life, fantasy land, where all types of wonderful fruit will grow there. I'm very curious about the name of the avocado varieties/cultivars that grow well there, and especially those that may produce mature/ripe fruit in the middle of winter, or close to the middle of winter. Congratulations and please keep the surprises coming.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 10, 2013, 07:33:45 AM
Yes it's true, there are one  blog that it's trying to locate all avocado trees in Portugal: http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/ (http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 10, 2013, 08:33:01 AM
Luis interesting that avocados are growing there. I guess is because the Atlantic Ocean keep it area warmer?
Fatima is in the list of my places to visit hopefully next year.
Great! If you came with time and want to, you will came to my house and eat with us!  ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 10, 2013, 08:59:51 AM
I try a Haden mango for first time some days ago, and like it a lot. It's very sweet and some fiber. So i think to germinate this mango to have it. I remove the hard exterior seed and involve the almond in wet paper, and put it in a seeled plastic bag in dark. In two days it's sprouting! The pic is here:
(http://s16.postimg.cc/ds93driq9/foto0174.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ds93driq9/)
 
(http://s13.postimg.cc/ghdthie8j/foto0175.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/ghdthie8j/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Benri on August 12, 2013, 12:34:26 PM
[url]http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html[/url] ([url]http://www.thegrower.com/issues/citrus-vegetable/New-varieties-could-extend-Floridas-avocado-season-218521951.html[/url])

Interesting article on extending the avocado season


Carlos, where could I find the avocado varieties?

DAY is an excellent Avocado tree that is cold hardy to 23 degrees. A heavy producer of  16  ounce fruit. This green skinned beauty is delicious and creamy.
Season: July - September Flower Type: A

Fantastic. Very cold hardy variety, supposedly the most most cold hardy of all avocados. Produces green, paper thin skin. The fruit has a creamy texture.
It survived temperatures around 10F near San Antonio, Texas (Zone 8b). Can take temperatures down to 15F for short period of time without significant damage.

Avocado Golden
Local Florida variety originated in Wauchula, which is very cold place, comparing to South Florida. This variety survived winters of 2009 and 2010 in Wauchula, when temperature dropped to low 20sF, without any significant damages. Very unusual medium size fruit - round yellow and smooth skin; creamy-yellow flesh. .  Flower Type: ?



Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 12, 2013, 10:42:27 PM
Golden I have no idea. But Day you can find in Florida. You may have to drive to pick up. Google it. Fantastic I think is a Texan variety.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 13, 2013, 12:49:15 AM
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Wauchula is on the avocado map! I'm glad to hear that the 'Golden' avocado was developed there. I lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy.
I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety is probably mine.  ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 13, 2013, 10:10:56 AM
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Hey i lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy. I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety probably is mine.  ;D
Thank's Leo this one is growing very nice... we have very little varieties available, so this diferente one are allways a good try!  ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 13, 2013, 11:09:16 PM
We're approximately six months away from the 'S. Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV'). So, I'm making preparations to upload photos on the Forum of important avocado tree cultivars, like 'Lula,' that are relevant to the 'SFL-WAV.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on August 14, 2013, 12:05:50 AM
We're approximately six months away from the 'S. Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('SFL-WAV'). So, I'm making preparations to upload photos on the Forum of important avocado tree cultivars, like 'Lula,' that are relevant to the 'SFL-WAV.'

Leo, you are about a year and half away from the results of Carlo's California avocado experiments. I hope to feed him more California avocado scions that are promising for South  Florida....
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: shaneatwell on August 14, 2013, 12:49:05 AM
Luisport, a lot of great mangos have come from seedlings just like that. I once planted a seedling mango and after a few short years, it produced fruit. But, because the quality of the fruit and the fruit production wasn't good, I ended up destroying it. I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to seedlings, the chances of getting a quality fruit and tree, increase when more than one seedling is planted. By the way, it seems you've perfected the technique of removing the hard exterior seed and sprouting the almond, nice.

Wauchula is on the avocado map! I'm glad to hear that the 'Golden' avocado was developed there. I lived in Wauchula, FL, USA, when I was a young boy.
I'm very tempted to say that I threw a lot of avocado seeds in the ground, so the Golden avocado variety is probably mine.  ;D

Wouldnt a variety that fruits so quickly make a great rootstock?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 15, 2013, 11:09:08 PM
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' (S.FL-WAV') Update:

Today I spoke with the person who Dr. Balerdi said was able to come up with a new avocado cultivar that produces mature/ripe fruit in the 'South Florida - Winter Avocado Void' ('S.FL-WAV') months in South Florida (February, March, April, May).

This person (whom I'll call T.P. to respect his privacy) said to have sold the patent to another individual, and because it was a legal matter, couldn't go into details.

When I told T.P. that he probably planted hundred(s) or thousand(s) of seedlings, to accomplish this feat of filling the 'S.FL-WAV' with a cultivar that produced ripe/mature avocados during this time, surprisingly, T.P. replied "None of that," T.P. said that it was "just a luck of the draw." T.P said that he just grew a seedling avocado that produced ripe/mature fruit during the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Planting a seedling(s) is a valid means to develop a new avocado cultivar that 'fills-in' the 'S.FL-WAV.'
The only problem is, that when an individual solves/fills-in the 'S.FL-WAV,' by the 'Seedling Method,' he/she immediatly realizes that a lot of money can be made and patents the cultivar, effectively removing it from the general population.

This leads me to conclude that the quickest way to solve/fill-in the 'S.FL-WAV,' and then have it become immediatly available to the general population, is by field trying all the avocado cultivars in the “Watch” List. Is it possible that one of these avocado cultivars will solve/fill-in the ‘S.FL-WAV?’ I for one am very inclined to believe so.
Most of these potential ‘S.FL-WAV’ candidates on the “Watch” List were expertly chosen by Carlos. He’s doing an excellent job field-testing many of them.
But, to make good progress in this quest, we really need ‘all of them’ to be presently being field tested.

"Watch" List
We're in the process of confirming that at least one (or more) of the following avocado cultivars, will fill in the 'SFL-WAV' months of March, April and May:
Group 1: 'Sharwil', 'Fujikawa', 'Utuado', 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling’ (per CTMIAMI: that should be good for February and Early March). Also,
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ Avocado and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: Hawaiians like, ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kalahuu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Muragishe-Plus.’ And,
Group 5: Californians like, ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ and ‘Holiday.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 17, 2013, 08:47:49 AM
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

And the ability to pair well with your soil's pH, structure and composition regarding adaptability and nutrient uptake.  Also, as I posted a few months back, Guat., Mex., and W. Indies all have different nutrient uptake characteristics to the scion.  For example, W.I. nutrient uptake potential is low on N, high on P, medium on K, low on Ca, and high on Mg.

When choosing plant material, any kind of stock, I place almost as much importance on the choice of the rootstock as I do the budwood variety.  The key is to get a perfect match with your soil profile.  It's amazing how many shoppers will buy fruit stock from Walmart not knowing what the rootstock is or if indeed it will work under their local conditions. 

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 17, 2013, 09:17:35 AM
My little baby osteen mangoes are falling... this is normal? They look healthy. Well this tree is on grownd only sinse may...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 17, 2013, 11:37:32 PM
shaneatwell, I believe the quality of rootstock is judged on the ability to transmit food/juice to the budwood, and the ability to fend-off/keep-at-bay nematodes (root eating worms).

And the ability to pair well with your soil's pH, structure and composition regarding adaptability and nutrient uptake.  Also, as I posted a few months back, Guat., Mex., and W. Indies all have different nutrient uptake characteristics to the scion.  For example, W.I. nutrient uptake potential is low on N, high on P, medium on K, low on Ca, and high on Mg.

When choosing plant material, any kind of stock, I place almost as much importance on the choice of the rootstock as I do the budwood variety.  The key is to get a perfect match with your soil profile.  It's amazing how many shoppers will buy fruit stock from Walmart not knowing what the rootstock is or if indeed it will work under their local conditions. 

Mark

Mark in Texas, good point, I always try to purchase my grafted fruit trees from reputable dealers. I think it's very important to do so whenever possible. I've had very good results following this rule. Whenever I've strayed from it, I've payed the price (with diseased trees...).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 18, 2013, 09:09:14 AM
Mark in Texas, good point, I always try to purchase my grafted fruit trees from reputable dealers. I think it's very important to do so whenever possible. I've had very good results following this rule. Whenever I've strayed from it, I've payed the price (with diseased trees...).

Good on ya!  The rootstock can make ya or break ya.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 18, 2013, 03:04:43 PM
Not only on tree health but in the ability to  bear more or less fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on August 18, 2013, 10:21:05 PM
Not only on tree health but in the ability to  bear more or less fruit.

If the rootstock are all seedling trees, how can you tell which ones to use since they are all different genetically than the mother tree?  Are you just hoping that they resemble the mother tree?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on August 18, 2013, 11:48:46 PM
John, you have a valid point as that rootstock seedling's genetics are virtually unknown.  That is why seedlings rarely produce good fruit, even when they are the offspring of an excellent tree.  Brokaw Nursery in CA does produce clonal rootstock through a process called etiolation and therefore has consistent rootstock characteristics.  I use, what Julie Frink of the UC avocado collection calls, GOK.  That is "God only knows".  Selections for potential rootstock are usually Mexican, as that does best in our soil/climate.  However, many times the rootstock is not up to the job.  In that case I put another seedling next to the original rootstock and inarch it to the original, thereby having a grafted tree with two rootstocks.  That usually solves the problem. I believe Brokaw's website has an explanation of how they produce clonal rootstocks.  It is an intensive process, but leads to consistent and predictable producing trees, which is not necessarily true using seedling rootstocks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 19, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
I guess I just got lucky.  I started Florida pits and grafted Reed, Sharwil, and Gwen budwood sourced from California and so far the results have been incredible.  If I had to guess the rootstock is Monroe as I bought them about late September.  Got to be Guat.X WI based on leaf flush color and other characteristics.

Having said that, I'm not impressed with the way Flying Dragon works with my citrus.  Growth is dwarfed all right such that leaf production is just not there.  Fruit production is, but without abundant leaves my fruit won't mature or have a decent taste.  Seems to stay dormant forever come winter too, some not growing until April.  Just no vigor.  If I had the room, I'd use Sour Orange as rootstock any day.

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on August 19, 2013, 11:00:50 AM
Genetic testing of avocados shows that much of the identification as to Mexican, Guatemalan, and West Indian is difficult to ascertain due to the genetic diversity. For example, Hass, classified as Guatemalan, is determined to be 42% Mexican, actually a backcross. Puebla, considered a Mexican, is M X WI X G.  So choosing a seedling rootstock on specific characteristics is pretty much potluck.  Generalized selection due to observable characteristics helps, but is inexact.  I guess that is why Brokaw is using clonal rootstocks.

Good info: http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf (http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf)

http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html (http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: shaneatwell on August 19, 2013, 01:16:32 PM
Genetic testing of avocados shows that much of the identification as to Mexican, Guatemalan, and West Indian is difficult to ascertain due to the genetic diversity. For example, Hass, classified as Guatemalan, is determined to be 42% Mexican, actually a backcross. Puebla, considered a Mexican, is M X WI X G.  So choosing a seedling rootstock on specific characteristics is pretty much potluck.  Generalized selection due to observable characteristics helps, but is inexact.  I guess that is why Brokaw is using clonal rootstocks.

Good info: [url]http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf[/url] ([url]http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/1/56.full.pdf[/url])

[url]http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html[/url] ([url]http://brokawnursery.com/rootstock.html[/url])


Funny. I've always thought hass was a hybrid. When I double checked the CRFG fruit facts it is, contra my memory, listed as Guatemalan. Julia Morton has Hass as hybrid, so I probably remember that from her. She also indicates that Puebla is thought by some to be a hybrid.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 19, 2013, 10:49:21 PM
The potted 'Jan-Boisey' avocado tree that Carlos gave me has grown really fast. When I first got it (about 2 months ago), the bamboo stake that came with it was three times as tall. Now, the tree is taller than the stake!

Since it's been doing so well, I'm very tempted to plant it in the designated spot this year, instead of waiting for the coming winter to pass.

I hope to get lucky and discover that this variety is the one that fills in the 'S.FL-WAV.' If it doesn't, I'll still (hopefully) have a productive, quality avocado with a very small seed (Thank you Carlos).  :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 20, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
Today I spoke with Dr. Carlos Balerdi. I told him about the conversation I had with 'TP," the person that grew a producing avocado tree from seed, that fills the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Dr. Balerdi told me that the method that we're using, that of growing different cultivars in S. Florida, USA, was a valid way to find an avocado variety that could fill the 'S.FL-WAV.'
But, he recommended a more refined strategy, while still using the same method.

Recommendaton Number One
He said to choose avocado cultivar candidates that are know to mature late in other locations, and preferably close to, or in the middle of winter.

Recommendation Number Two
He said that since S. Florida is just a few feet above sea level, that the avocado tree varieties chosen as potential candidates to fill the 'S.FL-WAV,' should also be from areas that are in valleys or locations that are also just a few feet above sea level. And, that we should refrain from choosing avocado cultivar candidates that are known to prosper in hgih hills or mountains, since that high dry air difference will affect the maturity season.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: plantlover13 on August 21, 2013, 10:17:15 AM
Today I spoke with Dr. Carlos Balerdi. I told him about the conversation I had with 'TP," the person that grew a producing avocado tree from seed, that fills the 'S.FL-WAV.'

Dr. Balerdi told me that the method that we're using, that of growing different cultivars in S. Florida, USA, was a valid way to find an avocado variety that could fill the 'S.FL-WAV.'
But, he recommended a more refined strategy, while still using the same method.

Recommendaton Number One
He said to choose avocado cultivar candidates that are know to mature late in other locations, and preferably close to, or in the middle of winter.

Recommendation Number Two
He said that since S. Florida is just a few feet above sea level, that the avocado tree varieties chosen as potential candidates to fill the 'S.FL-WAV,' should also be from areas that are in valleys or locations that are also just a few feet above sea level. And, that we should refrain from choosing avocado cultivar candidates that are known to prosper in hgih hills or mountains, since that high dry air difference will affect the maturity season.

So does that mean that a cultivar that matures in summer in one place matures in winter in florida?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 21, 2013, 03:22:22 PM
All recommendations, observations are useful. In the end we resemble more to San Diego and to some extend Hawaii in the lower elevations area than any other location. In the final analysis trees will behave as they like, I tend not to follow others observations because once I experiment I may find that others observations are far off to my location.  Balerdi's observations are well taken and accurate and I try to follow them as much as possible in making selections but if something is out of the ordinary I'll try it even if it comes from 5000 ft elevation. May be is doing well there but its optimal location may be here. If we don't try we wont know.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 22, 2013, 12:29:57 AM
I couldn't agree more Carlos. There are a good, many, number of cultivars that you have introduced into the 'Watch List.' I hope that you'll let us know which ones produce fruit that 'do not' mature in the 'South Florida-Winter Avocado Void' ('S.FL-WAV') months, so that we can remove them from the 'List.' In that way, we/you can then concentrate on other 'cultivars' that merit our attention.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on August 22, 2013, 07:47:17 AM
That's right.  Testing as many as possible is the best way to go.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on August 22, 2013, 11:47:13 AM
Balerdi's observations are well taken and accurate and I try to follow them as much as possible in making selections.....

Huh?  Well......cut me off and call me 'Shorty' cause I mistook you for the good doctor.  Carlos, you're not Dr. Carlos Balerdi that retired from the U. of Fl.?

Regards,
Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 22, 2013, 05:06:44 PM
No I'm not Balerdi PhD????
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: msk0072 on August 23, 2013, 01:47:35 AM
My little baby osteen mangoes are falling... this is normal? They look healthy. Well this tree is on grownd only sinse may...
If first time fruiting then is normal
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on August 23, 2013, 04:44:03 AM
My little baby osteen mangoes are falling... this is normal? They look healthy. Well this tree is on grownd only sinse may...
If first time fruiting then is normal
Thank you so much! :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on August 27, 2013, 12:57:55 AM
Watch –List” Review: A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties (most of them expertly chosen by CTMIAMI) are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA, and to ultimately determine whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘S.FL-WAV’) months of March, April and May. (Underlined cultivars need to be field tested in S.Florida)

This 'Group 1' is this thread's original 'S.FL-WAV' cultivar Group (it was put together with the help of CTMIAMI, others and myself). The others, 'Groups 2-5,' were expertly added by CTMIAMI.
 
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
 
'Sharwil:’ Escellent variety in Australia, Hawaii, and California. As stated previously on this thread, this quality, versatile cultivar, with high potential for S. Florida, USA, I’m glad to report that it’s currently being grown by a S. Florida ‘Forum Member.’ And, it’s also on its way to being grown by another ‘Forum Member,’ (if not already done so).  So, two S. Florida ‘Forum Members’ are growing the ‘Sharwil’ avocado, now it’s only a matter of time before we learn about what time of the year its fruit matures/ripens.

'Fujikawa:' Members of this Forum (Hawaii...) have informed on the special quality of this cultivar. As of now, it seems only one Forum Member is field testing several trees in Fort Myers, Florida, USA, but none in S. Florida (as far as it's known by this thread). I'd like to say that I consider it of high importance, that the wonderful 'Fujikawa' avocado cultivar be field tested in S. FL as early as possible.

'Utuado:' 'Forum Member' CTMIAMI has it and it's under observation. So far, it has already produced fruit. It seems to be productive and more disease resistant than 'Monroe' avocado. If flowers after 'Monroe,' so it may hold fruit longer than 'Monroe.' It's also being grown in Williams Grove, Miami, FL, USA.' It seems that we're very close to knowing the exact quality/behavior of this avocado fruit/tree.

'Jan-Boyce:' 'CTMIAMI' and 'LEOOEL' have it. My potted tree, prepared and grafted by CTMIAMI (thank you), is growing quickly. 'CTMIAMI's' tree is more established. The 'Jan-Boyce' has a reputation of being a top quality cultivar in California, with the added bonus of a very small seed. - No fruit production yet, as trees are still adolescents.

'Reed:' A 'Forum Member' is growing a seedling of the 'Reed' avocado in S. Florida, as mentioned earlier in this thread. According Pine Island Nursery's webpage, "'REED' was another patented California variety introduced to Florida in hopes of being a late season success. Low production kept it out of the limelight." I feel like saying, you lost me at "Low production." Since this variety is in the same late season time of the year as Lula and Choquette, it's probably a good idea to grow it instead from seed, as the mentioned 'Forum Member' is doing, with the goal being to produce a 'Reed' like avocado, with high fruit production. Then again, the University of Florida (UF) said in a document, last updated in 2007: "According to UF (University of Florida) 'Reed,' matures Dec. 14 – March 7, resistant to scab, production is High," so go figure.

'Green-Gold:' It seems that CTMIAMI is the only forum member growing 'Green-Gold.' This variety is very similar quality to Sharwil, just slightly different seasons but with big overlap. It would be great to get the report/details from CTMIAMI on this variety, once it starts producing fruit.

'Linda:' It seems that 'Linda' has a reputation for being a top quality avocado in Hawaii. The Forum's Murahilin, has mentioned that it's available from the USDA.
This thread is not aware of anyone growing this variety in S.Florida. It would be helpful if someone were 'field testing' it in S.Florida, with the goal of learning the statistics of its behavior here.

'Fuerte:' CTMIAMI is the only Forum Member growing this cultivar (...that this thread knows). This is an excellent quality avocado in California and is highly recommended, by Forum Members in California, for South Florida.

'Wurtz:' Top Tropicals Nursery (in Florida) says that this variety matures May through September, if this is so, it may fill one of the 'SFL-WAV' months. This needs to be verified by field testing it in South Florida. It's been reported that the fruit maturity season is May-Sept. in CA. It has small fruit, flesh to seed ratio is lower than some, and it's a small tree. The tree reportedly grows to a height of 10 to 12 feet.. Murahilin has reported that he's "seen tons of wurtz trees here in South Florida fruiting really well." Rob has said that it's "an excellent avocado, taste and texture-wise. It is also a somewhat smaller tree with decent cold hardiness. The drawback I see is that the fruit are on the smaller side and the flesh to seed ratio is lower than some....that's ok, cause the quality makes up for it. I would definitely give this one a try." And that his "comment(s) earlier in (another) thread are based on multiple trees grown in Palm Beach County." 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 08, 2013, 01:48:11 AM
“Watch –List”: A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of March, April and May (Underlined cultivars may be good candidates for field testing).

Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling.’

‘Winter-Mexican:’
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 08, 2013, 09:20:13 AM
Leo I have a small Linda tree and hopefuly will top work a tree in winter.
The issue  of poor production is relative, like the Dupuis, For non commecial purposes I rather have 50 avocados that I like than 150 I would not enjoy.
I recently tasted a Reed it was excelent, good flavor, small seed, little oxidation after 24 hrs in refrigerator.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on September 08, 2013, 09:25:12 AM
I try a Haden mango for first time some days ago, and like it a lot. It's very sweet and some fiber. So i think to germinate this mango to have it. I remove the hard exterior seed and involve the almond in wet paper, and put it in a seeled plastic bag in dark. In two days it's sprouting! The pic is here:
([url]http://s16.postimg.cc/ds93driq9/foto0174.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/ds93driq9/[/url])
 
([url]http://s13.postimg.cc/ghdthie8j/foto0175.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/ghdthie8j/[/url])
My Haden mango seed growing...
(http://s18.postimg.cc/4btizsi3p/foto0226.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4btizsi3p/)
 
(http://s2.postimg.cc/lsixh37at/foto0227.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/lsixh37at/)
 
(http://s24.postimg.cc/nuremw93l/foto0228.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/nuremw93l/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 08, 2013, 07:26:30 PM
Carlos, that is great news that you have the 'Linda' avocado and are propagating it by top working a tree. I'm going to update the 'Watch List,' since we now know that you are field testing this variety. Suffice it to say that no one in South Florida is doing near as much as you are doing for the avocado fruit, many thanks.

Luisport, that is a very nice time lapse sequence of photos of your growing 'Haden' mango seedling. I looks very healthy.
I'm curious, do you know what are the months of the year where avocados and mangoes are plentiful in Portugal, and which are the months where there is an avocado and mango 'Void?'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 08, 2013, 07:51:25 PM
“Watch –List”: A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Underlined cultivars are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by 'Forum Members'.

Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).

Winter-Mexican:’ CTMIAMI has mentioned that this tree is coming in this year to be field tested. It is not known whether it has already arrived. ECHO Nursery in Florida has mentioned that the fruit will mature from February to April. ECHO Nursery also contradicts itself by also memtioning that the fruit matures in October to December.  Of course, the only way to verify the actual date of maturity would be to test/grow it in the field in South Florida.

'Mexican Seedling (CTMIAMI):' As the name implies, this is a seedling that CTMIAMI has also said is coming to him this year for field testing. This seedling and its parent (Winter Mexican) can be promising candidates to fill the 'SFL-WAV.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 08, 2013, 08:04:07 PM
This week I'm also getting Sharwil bud wood.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 08, 2013, 08:18:20 PM
My winter mexican in the field is fruiting I will look tomorrow. Do you want pictures of the fruit
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on September 08, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
My winter mexican in the field is fruiting I will look tomorrow. Do you want pictures of the fruit

They will! Photos
Carlos and Leo are the dedicated avocado  growers and want to see what you got

So do I,  wanted a Florida Hass like yours nice dwarfing tree but since I could not find one so planted a California Hass a few months ago

We need some condo avocados same as Fairchild promoted bushy condo mangoes
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: bangkok on September 08, 2013, 10:36:55 PM
The Chokanon (miracle mango) of my MIL has big mango's now.

Does anybody else also have them? My own chokanon grafts have nothing but some of them had fruits 4 months ago which we picked.

My avocado is still alive but barely growing.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on September 09, 2013, 05:57:45 AM
Carlos, that is great news that you have the 'Linda' avocado and are propagating it by top working a tree. I'm going to update the 'Watch List,' since we now know that you are field testing this variety. Suffice it to say that no one in South Florida is doing near as much as you are doing for the avocado fruit, many thanks.

Luisport, that is a very nice time lapse sequence of photos of your growing 'Haden' mango seedling. I looks very healthy.
I'm curious, do you know what are the months of the year where avocados and mangoes are plentiful in Portugal, and which are the months where there is an avocado and mango 'Void?'
Well regarding mangos we don't have them here... at least i don't know them here. The avocados are starting now...  another haden pic: 
(http://s11.postimg.cc/e4ylqjibj/foto0232.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/e4ylqjibj/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 09, 2013, 09:03:05 AM
This is a winter mexican tree planted about 5 years and the fruit.
(http://s16.postimg.cc/tftzgp6fl/001.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/tftzgp6fl/)

(http://s9.postimg.cc/s2ocrw097/004.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/s2ocrw097/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 09, 2013, 07:43:56 PM
Mike would you recall when the Winter Mexican Flowered? 
Winter Mexican looks a lot like the Daisy?
How you describe the flavor of Winter Mexican and when is it ready?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 10, 2013, 11:03:14 AM
Ct
 Don't know when it flowerd.The skin on the winter mexican is more bumpey.The daisy is smooth. The flavor is more buttery then oily not the best but it takes the cold well. It is ready in oct and nov
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 10, 2013, 07:53:31 PM
I actually want it as a pollinator. It is a B flower and it flowers early. I don't know how early. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 10, 2013, 08:06:21 PM
 Carlos  Do you want budwood or a 3 gallon pot.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 10, 2013, 11:57:52 PM
Mike Thanks but I got a nice tree from Cookie Monster about a couple of month ago. It will produce budwood for me to graft a few trees by winter.
I would not mind to have the Daisy, looks very Mexican and probably flowers early.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 11, 2013, 08:22:09 AM
CT
I can send you budwood how much do you want and when..Tell me what you want the budwood to look like. This is for daisy.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 11, 2013, 11:12:42 PM
This week I'm also getting Sharwil bud wood.
CTMIAMI, that is great news, about getting budwood this week, of this great variety 'Sharwil.' I hope everything goes well, thanks for letting us know.

My winter mexican in the field is fruiting I will look tomorrow. Do you want pictures of the fruit
TREESNMORE, great pictures, thanks. So, the 'Winter Mexican' matures October through November, that is quite late in the year. Maybe a seedling, or a combination of this variety with another one, will yield a new variety that’ll fill the ‘S.FL-WAV.’

Zands, thank you for all the support that you and others have given in the effort for 'filling' the ‘S.FL-WAV,’ which we all stand to benefit from, by having year round (24/7) avocados.

Bangkok, I also have the ‘Miracle’ mango, I like it very much and recommend it. About your slow growing young avocado tree, I’ve noticed that this is quite common, specially with grafted fruit trees. Then, after they become established, they pick up speed, just make sure that it’s getting all the nutrients, water and sun it needs.

Luisport, very exciting, sounds like you are the mango and avocado pioneer in your Portugal area, stay safe, best of luck, and I hope you get a lot of good quality avocado and mango fruit production.

This an update on the status of the 'Winter Avocado & Mango Void' ('WAM-Void') at my Temperature Zone 10b location in Miami, FL, USA. Notice that when the avocado season ends in February-March, and the mango season begins in early March, there is an overlap of both seasons in the month of March. Thus, having 'Mango OR Avocado 24/7', is a goal that has been accomplished.
'Mango Void'
As far as is known by this Thread, the goal of 'Mango 24/7' has not been accomplished.
The South Florida ‘Winter-Mango-Void’ at the Miami, Florida, Zone 10b location is: December through February, for a total of three long months without mangoes.
The mango season begins on the month of March with the ‘Rosigold’ mango variety.
The ‘Keitt’ mango variety produces the last mangos in November.
The season ends with the ‘Miracle’ (Chok-Anon) mango variety, which lasts from November to January, but the reliability of consistent production is to be determined.
'Avocado Void'
'Avocado 24/7' has been accomplished commercially. But, the new patented cultivar(s) are not yet available for propagation to the general public. This Threads' goal is to find a cultivar to fill this Void.
The South Florida ‘Winter-Avocado-Void’ (‘S.FL-WAV’) at the Miami, Zone 10b location is: March through May, for a total of three long months without avocados.
The avocado season begins with ‘Donnie’ in June.
The avocado season ends with the ‘Lula’ avocado producing the last fruits in the months of February. This year, I picked the last avocado fruit off a 'Lula' tree, on March 23, 2017!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on September 12, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
Hi Leoonel, yes regarding mangos i think it's true, at least i don't know anyone with them here. But regarding avocados, there are a lot of them producing trought all country. you have this blog about avocados in Portugal: http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/ (http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 13, 2013, 01:13:00 AM
“Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by 'Forum Members'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'

Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.

'Don-Carlitos:' Amazingly, Forum Member CTMIAMI says that this variety’s fruit matures February – March “for sure.” This is inside the 'SFL-WAV' zone. CTMIAMI is in the process of verifying whether the bearing habit is alternate or consistent year after year, and also whether it behaves differently when irrigated/fertilized. CTMIAMI found it growing in a backyard (nice find!), and believes it’s a ‘Monroe’/’Lula’ Cross. It has a larger fruit and a smaller seed. If this variety is verified to be an alternate bearer, perhaps if it were crossed again with another appropriate variety, this could then produce the desired yearly consistent productive quality; more information on this variety can be obtained at CTMIAMI’s website:
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html)

'Vero Beach:' CTMIAMI intends to get bud wood of this variety in the month of December of this year (2013). I was able to get some more information for this variety from a search of CTMIAMI's website: "small ..." "(CAS Yearbook 1950) Origin: Florida, Race: W.I.,Flowering group: A (Lahav & Gazit) BALBOA (Hybrid) Tree originated on Balboa Island, Newport Beach, CA. Ovate fruit, 7-27 oz. Black skin is smooth, pit; very small to large, light yellow blended to light green ..."

'Cellons:' The only information available is that provided by CTMIAMI, who expects to obtain budwood of this variety in December of this year, 2013, in order to propagate.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 13, 2013, 11:10:00 PM
“Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.

Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by 'Forum Members'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'

Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4 (Hawaiians): ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’

'San Miguel:' This variety is being propagated in Hawaii and in Miami (by CTMIAMI), and other than the tree(s) are growing phenomenally well, no further information is available, so we'll have to wait and see.

'Kahaluu:' This is an all around top notch quality avocado variety. In avocado quality competitions conducted by chefs in Hawaii, it consistently placed at second place ('Linda' took first place). It matched first place in flavor and texture, and it was notably preferred for the peeling characteristic. A description on CTMIAMI's website says: "Kahalu'u is a mammoth fruit with glowing green skin, silk-smooth butter-colored flesh and a rich, slightly citrusy flavor." CTMIAMI is field testing the variety in South Florida. CTMIAMI has reported in his website that it likes it here and it's growing nicely. I was surprised at how tasty the fruit 'looks' on the picture(s). More information on this variety can be obtained at CTMIAMI's website:
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/don-carlitos-avocado.html)

'Malama:'  Malama is a Hawaii selection that is a regular, heavy bearer. Skin is purple when ready to eat, easy to peel. The fruits have plenty of flesh, with a rich and nutty flavor. The fruit has a high oil content, more than 20%, and is deliciously creamy. In Hawaii, it has been in the top two picks by chefs, in avocado variety contests. This variety is currently being field tested in South Florida by CTMIAMI.

'Murashige:' Murashige avocados are large, green-skinned fruit with a small seed and excellent flavor. They weigh in at 24 to 32 oz. and are about 20 percent oil. They can be difficult to harvest, as the stem easily pulls out of the fruit. CTMIAMI has mentioned (on this Forum) that they are growing well at low elevations in Hawaii, and thus it should work for us in Florida. CTMIAMI's website metions that "If in Hawaii the fruit matures between June and August, in So. Florida it  would probably be 2-3 weeks later." More reports will be needed to determine whether regular, or alternate bearer. CTMIAMI is field testing this variety and has reported that the grafted trees are doing well.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on September 19, 2013, 09:21:40 AM
"Nabal" avocado from Peru, that i found in a supermarket is the best avocado i ever eat. Perfect flavour, fiberless, very small seed, big fruit  and soft like butter!
(http://s21.postimg.cc/afksbw4gz/foto0246.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/afksbw4gz/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 19, 2013, 04:09:45 PM
Yes Nabal is an interesting fruit. I have a small grafted tree on a growing program to get bud wood to top work a tree in December.
I have a few trees looking for adoptive home in So. Florida so we could have back ups of some of the more difficult to get varieties. I have Malama 3 gal, Queen 7 gal (big) and  Kahaluu 3 gal when I get bud wood I graft 2-3 containers tree,  once the top worked tree is doing well I need to clear the staging area of the container trees.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: nullzero on September 19, 2013, 05:35:59 PM
Nabal looks very similar to Reed in size and shape. Sounds like an avocado I would love to grow if its anything like Reed.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 25, 2013, 01:03:06 AM
Updated “Avocado Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'

Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
Group 6: ‘Nabal,’ ‘Queen’ ...

Thank you Luisport for posting the photo of the 'Nabal' avocado that you are enjoying in Portugal, it looks like a very promising variety.
It's amazing that CTMIAMI also has it here in South Florida, USA. Nullzero, 'Sharwil,' 'Reed' and 'Nabal' seem to be excellent avocado choices.

A Note on Mango 24/7
Perhaps, it's worth it to concider that by crossing these varieties (below), the result could be the creation of a new quality variety(ies), that could fill the 'S. Florida Winter Mango Void.'
The mango varieties that border the 'S. Florida Mango Void' months of December, January and February are:
'Keitt:' fruit matures up to the month of November (and possibly December, if the tree is not fertilized),
'Miracle:' inconsistently can produce fruit from December to January; if the tree is given a few electrical jolts, could this positively affect production? ( ;D  sorry, couldn't resist),
'Rosy-Gold:' has produced fruit in February for Forum Member mangomandan; it reliably produces fruit in early March.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 25, 2013, 11:40:45 AM
As these guys talked about the Nabal and Reed it remind it me of a fruit Adam gave me a while back. A seedling named  Kimber. Leo somewhere in there there may be room for it. Hoping it matures around January ++
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/kimber-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/kimber-avocado.html)

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2097.msg53474#msg53474 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2097.msg53474#msg53474)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 25, 2013, 01:31:04 PM
Carlos
Here is three pictures of the daisy fruit. The fruit is ready now nice buttery flavor.
(http://s15.postimg.cc/5ttbb09qv/001.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/5ttbb09qv/)

(http://s7.postimg.cc/eeocf3ihj/002.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/eeocf3ihj/)

(http://s11.postimg.cc/gjm0vs5i7/003.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/gjm0vs5i7/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 25, 2013, 02:53:06 PM
Mike a real beauty.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 25, 2013, 10:21:43 PM
 ...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 26, 2013, 08:28:46 AM
Carlos
Here is three pictures of the daisy fruit. The fruit is ready now nice buttery flavor.
([url]http://s15.postimg.cc/5ttbb09qv/001.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/5ttbb09qv/[/url])

([url]http://s7.postimg.cc/eeocf3ihj/002.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/eeocf3ihj/[/url])

([url]http://s11.postimg.cc/gjm0vs5i7/003.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/gjm0vs5i7/[/url])


That is really nice!  What's in its background, Dupuis, Pinkerton?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 26, 2013, 09:28:45 AM
I dont no I am trying to find out for Carlos
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on September 26, 2013, 11:14:19 AM
Carlos
Here is three pictures of the daisy fruit. The fruit is ready now nice buttery flavor.
([url]http://s15.postimg.cc/5ttbb09qv/001.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/5ttbb09qv/[/url])

([url]http://s7.postimg.cc/eeocf3ihj/002.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/eeocf3ihj/[/url])

([url]http://s11.postimg.cc/gjm0vs5i7/003.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/gjm0vs5i7/[/url])


That is really nice!  What's in its background, Dupuis, Pinkerton?




That looks just like my Pinkerton...I wonder if just mislabeled??
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on September 26, 2013, 11:49:48 AM
Is your tree a dwarf this one is. It is 4 to 5 feet 5 years old and full of fruit
(http://s8.postimg.cc/5z0ucome9/001.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/5z0ucome9/)

(http://s10.postimg.cc/67bkyhdet/002.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/67bkyhdet/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 26, 2013, 01:03:21 PM
JF the Pinkerton observation is worth noting. The maturity for Pinkerton is Florida starts October  first. Close.

These can be a seedling of Pinkerton. Note that the seed and cavity are different. Also the overall shape is slightly different and so is the seed and cavity.  It could be a better Florida Pinkerton.
(http://s2.postimg.cc/7vjqimzs5/images_q_tbn_ANd9_Gc_RXli_Lw_SRN6_I7_VM2_UWCVg_T2_j_Fm_Pi_YYy_Ghx_Fhqv6_Cy_NAin_E4yz_N.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7vjqimzs5/)

(http://s22.postimg.cc/v7r6glkkd/pinkerton.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/v7r6glkkd/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on September 26, 2013, 03:03:41 PM
Is your tree a dwarf this one is. It is 4 to 5 feet 5 years old and full of fruit
([url]http://s8.postimg.cc/5z0ucome9/001.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/5z0ucome9/[/url])

([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/67bkyhdet/002.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/67bkyhdet/[/url])


Mike, Pinkerton are semi dwarf. I whacked two inches Above the graft 18 months ago because I didn't like how it was growing and it's 12'. I'll take pics and cut one open in 2 weeks
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 26, 2013, 03:29:21 PM
I meant to say Pinkerton or Russell (not Dupois).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 28, 2013, 12:11:00 AM
Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars
Key:
Underlined avocado 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List."
...
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
...
'Gwen:' A seedling bred from 'Hass' x 'Thille' in 1982. The 'Gwen' tree is higher yielding and more dwarfing than Hass in California. The fruit has an oval shape. It is frost-hardy down to −1 °C (30 °F). This variety requires little more than a third of the space of the typical avocado tree and produces "twice" as much fruit. The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree. Gwen avocados are similar to the Hass in appearance, taste, and texture, but are larger. The green skin is more finely pebbled than Hass, it's thick but pliable, is dull green when ripe with a gold-green and creamy flesh. Most productive of dwarf avocados, best dwarf for outdoor use, also for containers and greenhouse. Season: It's available late winter through late summer; Feb./March/April to Sept./October. As mentioned earlier on this Thread, Forum Member CTMIAMI is field testing this exciting variety.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 28, 2013, 09:55:10 AM
'Gwen:'.... The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree.


Here's my Gwen cleft graft to a Florida pit spring of last year.  Speaking of fruit set, this little gal must have had hundreds of flowers this spring, couldn't believe it.   I hand picked them all off but hope to get fruit spring of 2014.   Being a small tree is a bonus.  I think folks would love to have dwarf trees that fruit well.  Very much like the Gwen, you might want to consider GEM discussed here - http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/homeandgarden/ci_14997130 (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/homeandgarden/ci_14997130)

Gwen: An "awesome avocado you don't see sold anymore. Those lucky enough to have a Gwen tree will appreciate the small tidy tree size, great flavor better than Hass if left to ripen the full 16-plus months it needs, productivity if you've got several other avocados that aren't Hass to pollinate it. Not quite as hardy as Hass, it's been abandoned by the nurseries because it's tough to propagate, being weak, and slow to get growing, and insufficiently promiscuous."

Gem: A new seedling of Gwen, more vigorous, very compact, precocious, with good productivity. Gem has big Hass-like fruit. Menge noted that their own tree was "hardier than Gwen and set and held a couple dozen fruit before its second year in the ground."   


I have not realized any of the shortcomings mentioned in  his last statement regarding Gwen.

(http://s13.postimg.cc/up5dzeh8j/Gwen9_28_13.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/up5dzeh8j/)

(http://s13.postimg.cc/k11n0k79f/Gwen_Graft9_28_13.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/k11n0k79f/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on September 28, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
I believe Westfalia Fruit Estates, in S. Africa has tied up GEM and Carmen Hass (Hass Carmen).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on September 28, 2013, 09:05:09 PM
Carlos, do you have Gwen?  I don't see it on your website.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 28, 2013, 09:48:41 PM
John yes I do, I have a small tree and will top work a tree in December-January, then I'll start coverage
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 29, 2013, 10:02:37 AM
I believe Westfalia Fruit Estates, in S. Africa has tied up GEM and Carmen Hass (Hass Carmen).

Correct.  Brokaw is involved too.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on September 29, 2013, 11:51:44 AM
Actually Brokaw ranks the taste of GEM as only "good" compared to their ranking of Hass and others as "excellent".  May have more to do with seasonality, production, and other factors.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 29, 2013, 12:25:27 PM
Actually Brokaw ranks the taste of GEM as only "good" compared to their ranking of Hass and others as "excellent".  May have more to do with seasonality, production, and other factors.


Agreed.  I have an old Cali. Avocado Varietal Characteristics matrix and amongst 12 cultivars, it lists GEM under a U.C.R 'experimental' category with an excellent rating on "Overall Quality" and "Taste"

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on September 29, 2013, 01:42:32 PM
http://brokawnursery.com/varieties-blog/avocado.html (http://brokawnursery.com/varieties-blog/avocado.html)


Not sure how accurate UCR is in evaluating avocados as my Gordo is considered an excellent fruit in taste, but not by Julie Frink who curates their varietal collection, nor do I with my Gordo fruits.  Brokaw is highly respected in the industry, especially with their advanced techniques (etiolation for clonal rootstock) and superior trees and rootstock.  Hank Brokaw provided me with many of the citrus and avocado trees I grow 38 years ago along with advice as to citrus rootstock etc. for our soils and climate.  Interestingly, a B & B citrus with 2 inch trunk was $3.50 wholesale in those days.  Today, their trees are still superior and their nursery is about 2 hours S. of here and we have C & M avocado and citrus nursery just 1/2 mile away, but in time the Brokaw product is far better. I still, at times, help out neighbors buying from Brokaw. My collection has been filled out thanks to Julie and UCR's varietal collection, but these are self grafted on my rootstock (don't need Dusa, sand soil).

Here's a list that is far more comprehensive with Julie's input and the B & O register.
http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp (http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on September 30, 2013, 12:17:17 AM
Mark in Texas, thank you so much for the excellent, hands on, report on your 'Gwen' avocado. It seems to be behaving exactly, or better, than the description I posted.
It seems like you've made a fine avocado variety choice; congrats.

Also, thanks for the heads up on the 'Gem.' It could be really good for our South Florida area, and may be a candidate to fill the 'S.FL-WAV' (South Florida-Winter Avocado Void).
I wish Forum Member(s) were field testing it here in S. Florida, so its behavior could then be compared to that of 'Gwen.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 30, 2013, 07:43:30 AM
You're welcome!    Looks like Westfalia has the patent locked up worldwide.  Check this out - http://www.freshplaza.com/article/95835/Westfalia-has-new-superior-avocado-than-Hass (http://www.freshplaza.com/article/95835/Westfalia-has-new-superior-avocado-than-Hass)  Not sure why or how Dr. Arpaia would want to give away the rights of an extensive breeding program to a foreign country but apparently that has happened.

Legal Protection
Plant patents currently protect the GEM "3-29-5" in all major avocado producing countries (including Chile) to safeguard the variety against illegal propagation. The illegal cultivation and the unauthorized trade of fruit or genetic material of GEM Avocado ('3-29-5'), shall be punished criminally, the company said.
 
Globally
Outside Chile, Westfalia is in the process of hiring avocado producers and marketers for GEM avocados ('3-29-5 ') in Australia, Brazil, Colombia, the European Union, Israel, Morocco, New Zealand, Peru and other countries to ensure the availability throughout the year of this promising variety and development of cultivating GEM ('3-29-5 ') at its maximum potential.


You might call Laguna Hills Nursery,  (949) 830-5653, or Four Winds Growers.

Good luck!


 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on September 30, 2013, 08:09:36 AM
Mark I have wonder why a public institution that probably gets state and federal funds would give rights to a foreign business.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 30, 2013, 08:17:43 AM
Mark I have wonder why a public institution that probably gets state and federal funds would give rights to a foreign business.

For sure.  I think I'm gonna write her and find out what's going on since she took over the program from the GEM developers Martin and Bergh.  After I was gifted budwood by her I gave a donation to the Regents of U.C.R.  Botany and Plant Sciences Dept. in support of their research efforts and this kinda rubs me the wrong way.  IMO, the royalty should be paid to U.C.R. either from Westfalia or their customers.   I am assuming royalities are being paid to Westfalia. 

Later......
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on September 30, 2013, 08:22:02 AM
"GEM avocado trees are less likely to 'toggle' than Hass trees."

What does that mean?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 30, 2013, 08:54:46 AM
"GEM avocado trees are less likely to 'toggle' than Hass trees."

What does that mean?

Perhaps referencing "alternate bearing"?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on September 30, 2013, 11:48:37 AM
I believe this project was initially funded with a grant by the California Avocado Commission.  Lamb Hass, Sir Prize, GEM, etc. have been released, but unfortunately GEM had little interest garnered from CA growers, but New Zealand, Australia, S. Africa were interested.  As to plant material selected by this project for release by UCR, that is handled by the UCR Office of Technical Development and the beneficiary is the UC system from the resulting royalties.  The research program is world-wide, with collaboration and initiation from many sources including Israel, Chile, S. Africa, N. Zealand, and Florida.  Test plots are also worldwide. Further info as to intellectual property protections and benefits generated by UCR can be obtained at
http://research.ucr.edu/otc.aspx (http://research.ucr.edu/otc.aspx)

Most relevant: " Royalties

Royalties are paid when products that use the technology are sold.  Royalties may be calculated on a percentage-of-sales, gross or net sales of product, or fee-per-unit basis, depending on the standard in that market."
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 30, 2013, 02:14:49 PM
Good info.  I think Arpaia was and still is in charge of that "new" research/development project which was slated for a 10 year period.  If I had to guess they have about 2 years left.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Jack, Nipomo on September 30, 2013, 03:31:31 PM
Yes, Mark, Mary Lu is still project leader.  Julie Frink is one of the volunteers in the project.  Again, the source of the funding is really the CA avocado grower through the CA Avocado Commission.  Project is open-ended, reports and research results are posted on their internet page:   www.ucavo.ucr.edu (http://www.ucavo.ucr.edu)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 01, 2013, 12:57:51 AM
It sure seems like 'Gem' is one heck of a good cultivar and the patent holders have hit or are trying to hit the royalty/money jackpot.

I tell you, there's a lot of money to be made on a quality avocado seedling(s). I wouldn't be surprised if this 'Gem' were to fill the 'S.FL-WAV.' Although this patented cultivar may be out of reach for many of us, I for one think it's nice to feel the excitement and motivation created by it.

With the help of people like all of us Forum Members, like Mark in Texas, CTMIAMI/Carlos... it just comes to mind that we're on the right track. Successs will be ours if we keep persisting. Like Carlos says there are some good interesting days ahead. Thank you T.F.Forum Members for all your postings/contributions, please keep doing so.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on October 01, 2013, 04:54:48 PM
Look at this little sport on winter mexican .I will watch it to see if it grows
(http://s12.postimg.cc/4bz1g6xkp/001.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4bz1g6xkp/)

(http://s23.postimg.cc/m6zqycwrr/002.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/m6zqycwrr/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 01, 2013, 08:32:32 PM
Mike when does your Winter Mexican matures?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 02, 2013, 02:00:56 AM
It's a very exciting day for me, because today I finally bought the 'Lula' avocado variety, and I'm all giddy/silly with excitement.

I promised Zands that when I got it I'd say where I got it from. Zands, I got it from Pine Island Nursery. I think it's a 3 gallon tree and it needs to be stepped up because it's huge for the pot it's in. I'm 'gonna' step it up into the ground  :D . Yeah, I can't wait for the first chance I get, to plant it.

Since I don't have much space left, I'm 'fixing' on planting it in a 'hellish location,' in the middle of a small forest of 'Mysore' banana trees  :D . If need be, I'll cut back some of the banana trees to give it some space. 'Mysore' bananas take a long time to bear fruit, so I don't mind at all doing this 'insult' to them, they had it coming  :D .

Anyways, please excuse all the cheesy emoticons, what can I say, I'm feeling all cheesy about finally getting the 'Lula.'  :D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: TREESNMORE on October 02, 2013, 07:35:41 AM
Carlos
 Sometime in november.Do you think the long smooth skin fruit will hold
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 02, 2013, 08:13:08 AM
Carlos
 Sometime in november.Do you think the long smooth skin fruit will hold
Hard to tell it has gotten big.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on October 02, 2013, 08:36:45 AM
A question for the experts.  I realize that avocado trees vary in how they grow--a few are compact/dwarfish, some are spreading, many (most?) are tall and slender.  On average, how small can the home grower with several (or many!) fruit trees in his yard keep an avocado tree (through yearly pruning) and still expect abundant fruit?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on October 02, 2013, 12:17:22 PM
It's a very exciting day for me, because today I finally bought the 'Lula' avocado variety, and I'm all giddy/silly with excitement.

I promised Zands that when I got it I'd say where I got it from. Zands, I got it from Pine Island Nursery. I think it's a 3 gallon tree and it needs to be stepped up because it's huge for the pot it's in. I'm 'gonna' step it up into the ground  :D . Yeah, I can't wait for the first chance I get, to plant it.

Since I don't have much space left, I'm 'fixing' on planting it in a 'hellish location,' in the middle of a small forest of 'Mysore' banana trees  :D . If need be, I'll cut back some of the banana trees to give it some space. 'Mysore' bananas take a long time to bear fruit, so I don't mind at all doing this 'insult' to them, they had it coming  :D .

Anyways, please excuse all the cheesy emoticons, what can I say, I'm feeling all cheesy about finally getting the 'Lula.'  :D

Lula is supposed to upright, tall, and vigorous so it should grow above the banana forest.  Hey man, I'm equally nuts about avocado trees. ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 02, 2013, 10:23:37 PM
LOL, I'm already feeling less worried about the 'Lula' avocado and the 'Mysore' bananas being so close together. Thanks for the info. on the 'Lula's' growth habit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 04, 2013, 01:03:33 AM
Potential 'SFL-WAV' (South Florida-Winter Avocado Void) Cultivars
Key:
Underlined avocado 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List."
...
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
...
'Gwen:' A seedling bred from 'Hass' x 'Thille' in 1982. The 'Gwen' tree is higher yielding and more dwarfing than Hass in California. The fruit has an oval shape. It is frost-hardy down to −1 °C (30 °F). This variety requires little more than a third of the space of the typical avocado tree and produces "twice" as much fruit. The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree. Gwen avocados are similar to the Hass in appearance, taste, and texture, but are larger. The green skin is more finely pebbled than Hass, it's thick but pliable, is dull green when ripe with a gold-green and creamy flesh. Most productive of dwarf avocados, best dwarf for outdoor use, also for containers and greenhouse. Season: It's available late winter through late summer; Feb./March/April to Sept./October. As mentioned earlier on this Thread, Forum Member CTMIAMI is field testing this exciting variety.

'Santa Ana Hass:' This is a California field tested seedling, of California ‘Hass.’ It comes from a ten year old tree in California, where it is reported to bear heavily. The fruit is a large pound size fruit, with ‘Hass’ like taste. Because of the quality characteristics exhibited by this variety during many years, CTMIAMI is now field testing it in South Florida, USA. More information on this variety (and others) can be obtained at CTMIAMI’s website: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 04, 2013, 05:54:44 PM
Leo I updated yesterday info on Utuado and Lamb Hass. The Hass started to grow again after the temperatures began to cool at night. This Lamb Hass could be a December or later fruit. No change in color so far and they can grow a bit more.  More on the web pages.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 05, 2013, 01:52:30 AM
Carlos thank you for the updates on the Utuado and the Lamb-Hass, I really appreciate it. It's a pleasure and a priviledge to review these avocado cultivars that could fill the 'SFL-WAV.'
I'd like to thank you, this Forum and Forum Members for the opportunity to do so. I don't cease to be amazed by the quality of the avocado collection that you're field testing.

Update on Mango 24/7
In order to fill the 'South Florida Winter Mango Void,' it may be useful to do the following mango cultivar crossings:
(1) 'Keitt X Miracle,'
(2) 'Rosigold X Keitt,' and
(3) 'Rosigold X Miracle.'
These individual cultivars have something in their genetic codes that make them 'border' the 'S.FL-MangoVoid' months of December, January and February.
Perhaps by doing these crossings, they will/could yield a new cultivar that will fill the 'S.FL-MangoVoid.'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 07, 2013, 11:43:59 PM
Carlos, I planted the 'Jan Boyce' avocado tree that you gave me, very exciting.

I've also planted the 'Lula' that I recently got, also very exciting.

So far both trees are doing great. I hope they get established quick so they can appropriately deal with the winter, when it gets here.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 08, 2013, 03:11:27 PM
Leo. I'm starting coverage on another possible candidate. Rockwood Avocado.
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html)

One of the nicest foliage I have seen.

(http://s22.postimg.cc/6w27ikv3h/IMG_1604.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/6w27ikv3h/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 10, 2013, 01:13:05 AM
Leo. I'm starting coverage on another possible candidate. Rockwood Avocado.
[url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html[/url] ([url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html[/url])

One of the nicest foliage I have seen.

([url]http://s22.postimg.cc/6w27ikv3h/IMG_1604.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/6w27ikv3h/[/url])
Carlos that's great, 'Rockwood' avocado, I'ts been added to the 'Wish List,' thank you.

Updated “Avocado Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'
Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
Group 6: ‘Nabal,’ ‘Queen,’ 'Rockwood' ...

...
Group 5: ...
'Lamb-Hass:' In California, exceptional flavor and a medium to large robust size are the hallmark of this new avocado variety. It has pebbly bumpy skin with greenish yellow flesh. It has smooth, creamy, nutty taste and is more roundish, symmetrical, than the regular ‘Hass.’ It ranges in size from 10 to 20 oz. It’s 50% to 80% larger than the regular ‘Hass.’ It’s described as a compact tree (smaller than ‘Hass’), and bears more fruit than the ‘Hass.’ The fruit is reported to keep on the tree real well. A Forum Member has reported that the fruit also keeps/stores very well in the refrigerator. This variety is a self pollinator. Fruit maturity in California is from June to October. Carlos is field testing this variety to see how the tree and fruit quality will behave in the South Florida environment, whether it’s worthy of commercial development, and whether the fruit maturity season is in the ‘S.FL-WAV,’ or borders it.  The tree that Carlos is field testing is now full of attractive, as of yet unripe fruit. As Carlos has described, it seems to like the South Florida environment. It would be interesting to learn the date(s) when the fruits begin to ripen, and the date(s) when the last fruit(s) ripen; do they ripen all at once, or do they ripen in a spread out fashion as in a matter of days, weeks, or months. So far, so good: Although still under observation, with these amazing described qualities, the 'Lamb Hass' could turn out to be a world class quality avocado for S. Florida. More info. on this exciting variety can be found at: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html)
...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 12, 2013, 05:42:26 PM
Updated “Avocado Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'
Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
Group 6: ‘Nabal,’ ‘Queen,’ 'Rockwood' ...
...
Group 5:

'Gwen:' A seedling bred from 'Hass' x 'Thille' in 1982. The 'Gwen' tree is higher yielding and more dwarfing than Hass in California. The fruit has an oval shape. It is frost-hardy down to −1 °C (30 °F). This variety requires little more than a third of the space of the typical avocado tree and produces "twice" as much fruit. The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree. Gwen avocados are similar to the Hass in appearance, taste, and texture, but are larger. The green skin is more finely pebbled than Hass, it's thick but pliable, is dull green when ripe with a gold-green and creamy flesh. Most productive of dwarf avocados, best dwarf for outdoor use, also for containers and greenhouse. Season: It's available late winter through late summer; Feb./March/April to Sept./October. As mentioned earlier on this Thread, Forum Member CTMIAMI is field testing this exciting variety.

'Santa Ana Hass:' This is a California field tested seedling, of California ‘Hass.’ It comes from a ten year old tree in California, where it is reported to bear heavily. The fruit is a large pound size fruit, with ‘Hass’ like taste. Because of the quality characteristics exhibited by this variety during many years, CTMIAMI is now field testing it in South Florida, USA. More information on this variety (and others) can be obtained at CTMIAMI’s website: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html)

'Lamb Hass:' In California, exceptional flavor and a medium to large robust size are the hallmark of this new avocado variety. It has pebbly bumpy skin with greenish yellow flesh. It has smooth, creamy, nutty taste and is more roundish, symmetrical, than the regular ‘Hass.’ It ranges in size from 10 to 20 oz. It’s 50% to 80% larger than the regular ‘Hass.’ It’s described as a compact tree (smaller than ‘Hass’), and bears more fruit than the ‘Hass.’ The fruit is reported to keep on the tree real well. A Forum Member has reported that the fruit also keeps/stores very well in the refrigerator. This variety is a self pollinator. Fruit maturity in California is from June to October. Carlos is field testing this variety to see how the tree and fruit quality will behave in the South Florida environment, whether it’s worthy of commercial development, and whether the fruit maturity season is in the ‘S.FL-WAV,’ or borders it.  The tree that Carlos is field testing is now full of attractive, as of yet unripe fruit. As Carlos has described, it seems to like the South Florida environment. It would be interesting to learn the date(s) when the fruits begin to ripen, and the date(s) when the last fruit(s) ripen; do they ripen all at once, or do they ripen in a spread out fashion as in a matter of days, weeks, or months. So far, so good: Although still under observation, with these amazing described qualities, the 'Lamb Hass' could turn out to be a world class quality avocado for S. Florida. More info. on this exciting variety can be found at: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html)

'Sir Prize:' There is not a lot of ‘info.’ out there on this variety. This review is made possible by Forum Members: JF, Concordiaranch, Californiatropicals and CTMIAMI. In California, USA, it’s Hass like, but with larger fruit, bears 4-6 weeks earlier than Hass (Feb.-Oct.). Its growth is vigorous, upright and spreading. It’s more cold hardy than Hass. And, has an excellent flavor and flesh. On June 30, 2013, Forum Member Concordiaranch, mentioned having 3.25 acres of Sir Prize avocado on a hillside (800 ft. elevation) North of Bakersfield, CA. Eight year old trees in a 20' X 20' spacing are 16' high and beginning to touch. Concordiaranch harvests Sir Prize fruit between early November and early March. CTMIAMI began field testing this variety in Miami, Florida, USA, on December 20, 2012. And, according to Carlos, this variety  “seems to love it here.” Carlos has stated on his website that on January 28, 2013, he ate a California home grown Sir Prize, and described it as having an incredible taste and quality. Commentary: This variety exhibits wonderful qualities. Future reports will update the behavior in S. Florida, USA, as they become available. For more information, please link to:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3391.msg82192#msg82192 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3391.msg82192#msg82192)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6134.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6134.0)
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/sir-prize-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/sir-prize-avocado.html)

'Holiday:'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on October 12, 2013, 09:55:43 PM
Leo. I'm starting coverage on another possible candidate. Rockwood Avocado.
[url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html[/url] ([url]http://www.myavocadotrees.com/rockwood-avocado.html[/url])

One of the nicest foliage I have seen.

([url]http://s22.postimg.cc/6w27ikv3h/IMG_1604.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/6w27ikv3h/[/url])


Carlos

Hope to see you in Ornange County CRFG  this January in the great scion exchange were you might have a chance to try Rockwood and others plus have a chance to collect many rate avocado scions
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 15, 2013, 12:26:29 AM
"Mango 24/7" Update

In order to have mangos in the month of November, the solution is to not fertilize the 'Keitt' mango. In that way, it will hold its fruit until the end of November.

In order to have mango in the months of December and January, the solution may be to remove all the 'Miracle' mango fruit buds that form during the regular season. This variety is known to produce two crops per year. Thus, it may be appropriate to push (fertilize) it extensively.

My 'Rosigold' mango tree is beginning to bloom flowers right now. This is amazing considering that we're still very early in the year (October 14, 2013).
I'm of the thought that to get 'Rosigold' to produce mature fruit in February, it has to be pushed (fertilized extensively).

And there you have it, once you're able to have mango fruit in the mango void months of the year, November-February, you now have "Mango 24/7."
I can't wait to try this on my trees to see if it works.

Then, since "Mango or Avocado 24/7" has already been accomplished, the last remaining goal on this Thread would be "Avocado 24/7." And, thanks to T.F.Forum Members like CTMIAMI, JF, Mark in Texas and many others, a lot of progress has been, and is being done, to reach that goal, thanks again to everyone.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 15, 2013, 12:20:06 PM
FYI my son-in-law Keitt is is still holding fruit. He uses zero fertilizer.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on October 15, 2013, 01:21:01 PM
FYI my son-in-law Keitt is is still holding fruit. He uses zero fertilizer.
 

Gotta love Keitt! ;D  Why doesn't PIN carry it anymore? :(
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 15, 2013, 01:52:23 PM
Have you called them? I bought one about a year ago.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on October 15, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
Have you called them? I bought one about a year ago.
 

I was going by their website, where it says they've suspended production.  Maybe they need to update that information because that's been on there for a few years.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 15, 2013, 04:34:12 PM
John call them they have them. That has been on their web for a long time I got one while the web was reporting that.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on October 15, 2013, 05:40:32 PM
Spoke to the office they have keitt in PIN go and get it!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on October 15, 2013, 08:37:25 PM
Yes, sir!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 15, 2013, 09:17:40 PM
FYI my son-in-law Keitt is is still holding fruit. He uses zero fertilizer.

Thanks for that report Carlos, I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 20, 2013, 08:06:20 PM
Updated “Avocado Watch–List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April and May.
Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a 'Forum Member(s)'.
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'
Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’  and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
Group 6: ‘Nabal,’ ‘Queen,’ 'Rockwood' ...
...
Group 5:

'Gwen:' A seedling bred from 'Hass' x 'Thille' in 1982. The 'Gwen' tree is higher yielding and more dwarfing than Hass in California. The fruit has an oval shape. It is frost-hardy down to −1 °C (30 °F). This variety requires little more than a third of the space of the typical avocado tree and produces "twice" as much fruit. The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree. Gwen avocados are similar to the Hass in appearance, taste, and texture, but are larger. The green skin is more finely pebbled than Hass, it's thick but pliable, is dull green when ripe with a gold-green and creamy flesh. Most productive of dwarf avocados, best dwarf for outdoor use, also for containers and greenhouse. Season: It's available late winter through late summer; Feb./March/April to Sept./October. As mentioned earlier on this Thread, Forum Member CTMIAMI is field testing this exciting variety.

'Santa Ana Hass:' This is a California field tested seedling, of California ‘Hass.’ It comes from a ten year old tree in California, where it is reported to bear heavily. The fruit is a large pound size fruit, with ‘Hass’ like taste. Because of the quality characteristics exhibited by this variety during many years, CTMIAMI is now field testing it in South Florida, USA. More information on this variety (and others) can be obtained at CTMIAMI’s website: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/santa-ana-hass.html)

'Lamb Hass:' In California, exceptional flavor and a medium to large robust size are the hallmark of this new avocado variety. It has pebbly bumpy skin with greenish yellow flesh. It has smooth, creamy, nutty taste and is more roundish, symmetrical, than the regular ‘Hass.’ It ranges in size from 10 to 20 oz. It’s 50% to 80% larger than the regular ‘Hass.’ It’s described as a compact tree (smaller than ‘Hass’), and bears more fruit than the ‘Hass.’ The fruit is reported to keep on the tree real well. A Forum Member has reported that the fruit also keeps/stores very well in the refrigerator. This variety is a self pollinator. Fruit maturity in California is from June to October. Carlos is field testing this variety to see how the tree and fruit quality will behave in the South Florida environment, whether it’s worthy of commercial development, and whether the fruit maturity season is in the ‘S.FL-WAV,’ or borders it.  The tree that Carlos is field testing is now full of attractive, as of yet unripe fruit. As Carlos has described, it seems to like the South Florida environment. It would be interesting to learn the date(s) when the fruits begin to ripen, and the date(s) when the last fruit(s) ripen; do they ripen all at once, or do they ripen in a spread out fashion as in a matter of days, weeks, or months. So far, so good: Although still under observation, with these amazing described qualities, the 'Lamb Hass' could turn out to be a world class quality avocado for S. Florida. More info. on this exciting variety can be found at: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/lamb-hass-avocado.html)

'Sir Prize:' There is not a lot of ‘info.’ out there on this variety. This review is made possible by Forum Members: JF, Concordiaranch, Californiatropicals and CTMIAMI. In California, USA, it’s Hass like, but with larger fruit, bears 4-6 weeks earlier than Hass (Feb.-Oct.). Its growth is vigorous, upright and spreading. It’s more cold hardy than Hass. And, has an excellent flavor and flesh. On June 30, 2013, Forum Member Concordiaranch, mentioned having 3.25 acres of Sir Prize avocado on a hillside (800 ft. elevation) North of Bakersfield, CA. Eight year old trees in a 20' X 20' spacing are 16' high and beginning to touch. Concordiaranch harvests Sir Prize fruit between early November and early March. CTMIAMI began field testing this variety in Miami, Florida, USA, on December 20, 2012. And, according to Carlos, this variety  “seems to love it here.” Carlos has stated on his website that on January 28, 2013, he ate a California home grown Sir Prize, and described it as having an incredible taste and quality. Commentary: This variety exhibits wonderful qualities. Future reports will update the behavior in S. Florida, USA, as they become available. For more information, please link to:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3391.msg82192#msg82192 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3391.msg82192#msg82192)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6134.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=6134.0)
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/sir-prize-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/sir-prize-avocado.html)

'Holiday:' This variety is a relatively recent cultivar. Nurseries began propagating the plant in 2001. The fruit has the basic characteristics of popular varieties such as ‘Hass’ avocados. ‘Holiday’ avocados have dark green medium-thick skin that peels. Unlike the ‘Hass,’ the fruit is very large. The fruit are attractive and the tasty, delicious flavor has been described as being from good to excellent. The large, pear shaped green fruit, which holds the tree very well, grows to about six inches long and weighs between 18 to 24 ounces. The tree is much smaller than ‘Hass.’ This variety grows from well to perfect in small yards/orchards, in urban areas or in containers indoors. It is ideal for home gardeners who want to grow their own fruit without much space to spare. The beautiful tree grows from 10 to 12 (other reports also say 20 to 25) feet tall into a spreading umbrella shape that skirts the ground. Mature leaves grow to about eight inches long. It was named Holiday because the fruit ripens between Labor Day and New Year's Day (late fall and winter). T.F.F.Member JF, who’s in California, has said on this Thread that: ‘Holiday’ avocados can get quite big, and that they are of superior quality. CTMIAMI is field testing this variety in S.Florida. He top-worked a tree on December 22, 2012. As of March 30, 2013, the tree is doing very well and is on its way to possibly having flowers and fruit next year. Commentary: This is a promising candidate for the ‘SFL-WAV.’ Pictures and more information can be obtained at: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/holiday-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/holiday-avocado.html)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on November 08, 2013, 10:49:58 PM
“Avocado 24/7”
Update for the ‘South Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘S.FL-WAV’)
Group 1: ‘Utuado’ Avocado
Forum Member Carlos has about just finished doing a heck of an investigation on this variety. He has throuroughly field tested this variety for those of us Forum Members who are lucky enough to call South Florida, USA, home. The lowdown on the verdict for this avocado is that it seems to be a good, clean, healthy, quality avocado. So far, the oil content seems to be a bit low. The maturity date so far, based on ongoing observations, is that it seems to begin to mature in this location on about the last ten (10) days of October, or the first ten (10) days of November. Carlos has made the following prediction: “Does not seem it is going to get past the end of the year, so it runs with the Monroe, and no one competes with the most elegant of our late fruit.” Commentary: based on Carlos’ observations, this is a fine, healthy, quality avocado that is a tad low on the oil content. Although this cultivar will not fill the ‘S.FL-WAV,’ I’m glad it’s still being propagated, and deservedly so.
For more information and pictures, please go to: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html)

“Mango or Avocado 24/7”
Been there, done that; already accomplished (see earlier on this Thread).

“Mango 24/7”
Mango production in South Florida, USA (Production Void):
January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December.
‘S.FL-Mango-Void:’ November, December, January, February
The solution to this problem:
November: ‘Keitt’
December-January: ‘Miracle (ChockAnon)’
February: ‘Rosigold’

‘Rosigold’ Update
Commentary: My ‘Rosigold’ mango tree is full of flowers, I mean full of them, flowers on the side that faces the sun, behind the sun, flowers everywhere. I decided to look a bit closer and low and behold, there are marble sized mango fruits on the tree! I guess I’m on my way to having ‘Rosigold’ mango for the month of February, for the very first time in my yard, we’ll see. I’ve been softly pushing (fertilizing) the tree about once per month. If this three can give me fruit in the month of February, then I want it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on December 21, 2013, 10:47:18 PM
Mango/Avocado 24/7

'Avocado 24/7'

Today I was given some avocados by a friend of mine whose a real gentleman. He has a seedling avocado tree that he planted himself. I asked him to please keep an eye on the date that the last avocado stays on the tree, to see if his tree fills the 'S.FL-WAV' ('South Florida-Winter Avocado Void) months of March, April, May. His avocados are medium size, good, average quality, and average seed to flesh ratio. He never climbs the tree to get the avocados. Instead, he just waits for them to drop. We'll have to wait until the first few months of 2014, then I'll report on the date his avocado tree held the last fruit. This just goes to show, I've know this friend for many years, and I never suspected that he had a seedling, quality, avocado tree!

'Utuado' Avocado Cultivar Update:
Carlos has given high praises on the taste and overall quality of this avocado cultivar, even going as far as calling it a gem. On October 20, 2013, Carlos picked the first fruit off the tree. Carlos picked the last fruit off the tree on December 16, 2013. Since this was the first year that the tree produced fruit, Carlos says that we’ll have to wait until next year to compare results. On some fruit trees, like avocados (and mangos), the first year of fruit production and the taste of the fruit, are usually not the whole story. The second year of avocado production will most likely reveal a more complete picture of how this ‘Utuado’ avocado cultivar behaves here in S. Florida. For more information and pictures of this ‘Utuado’ avocado cultivar that will make your mouth water, please go to: http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/utuado-avocado.html)

'Mango 24/7'

My 'Rosigold' mango, which I'm trying to domesticate to give me mangos in the month of February, is on track to do so this year. As of today, the tree has about 40 unripe/green mangos. Their average size is about 3 inches in length. This mango cultivar is a real workhorse. Besides the about 40 mango fruit, the whole tree is covered with mango flowers. Cookie Monster (Jeff), has said on another Thread, that his 'Rosigold' bears fruit twice a year! My plan is to push (fertilize) it lightly every month of the year, giving it about a 1 month break after each crop. Two crops a year is really nice, but what I want is, for it to give me ripe fruit in the month of every February.

I'm planning to have the month of November to be covered by the 'Keitt' mango. And, the months of December-January by the 'Miracle' mango. By doing this, I should be able to have 'Mango 24/7.'

'Mango or Avocado 24/7:' This goal has been covered/accomplished earlier on this Thread.
Title: LATE LULA REPORT
Post by: zands on February 10, 2014, 06:46:54 PM
Neighbors Lula still has 17-20 fruit on it today Feb 10 2014. These avocados got better as the season progressed
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on February 11, 2014, 08:09:08 AM
Updated “Avocado Watch–List”'Gwen:' A seedling bred from 'Hass' x 'Thille' in 1982. The 'Gwen' tree is higher yielding and more dwarfing than Hass in California. The fruit has an oval shape. It is frost-hardy down to −1 °C (30 °F). This variety requires little more than a third of the space of the typical avocado tree and produces "twice" as much fruit. The tree naturally grows about 15 feet in height, but can be kept even smaller because the tree lends itself easily to pruning as it has small limbs. The fruit is set in huge numbers uniformly throughout the tree. Gwen avocados are similar to the Hass in appearance, taste, and texture, but are larger. The green skin is more finely pebbled than Hass, it's thick but pliable, is dull green when ripe with a gold-green and creamy flesh. Most productive of dwarf avocados, best dwarf for outdoor use, also for containers and greenhouse. Season: It's available late winter through late summer; Feb./March/April to Sept./October. As mentioned earlier on this Thread, Forum Member CTMIAMI is field testing this exciting variety.

Even though I'm not growing it under Florida/Cali field conditions which is your primary focus, just wanted to report that my Gwen is full of blossoms, this after being grafted to a Florida pit March of last year.  Compared to my Reed, it shows about 1/3 of the vigor.  That's why it's a dwarf!   ;)

Having said that, we need to have a thread (which I'd be glad to start) for those growing tropical fruits strictly under glass - in greenhouses.

Keep up the good work Leo!

Mark
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 12, 2014, 12:56:39 AM
"Avocado 24/7"

Thanks to Carlos' research and his bringing forward the article on the 'Kampong' avocado, 'Avocado 24/7' has finally been accomplished as a preliminary first generation/draft.

I am aware that this is not a scientific declaration, as Carlos is currently doing his professional/scientific field testing of the 'Kampong' avocado. Although this is an unscientific, layman, declaration, I'm very comfortable with it. The Article found by Carlos is from the year 2000 and authored by Dr. Richard Campbell. I've been to several live lectures by Dr. Richard Campbell and was fortunate to also have personally met him. In the past, I've bought fruit trees based on his suggestions as to how the trees would behave in time, and time would prove his recommendations to be true. So, I've come to trust his recommendations and I feel very comfortable with what he says in the article that the 'Kampong' fruit production is moderate.
 
The first generation/draft, accomplished, 'South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void' Cultivar Tree List:

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
3 March: 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
4 April: 'Kampong'
5 May: 'Kampong'
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds' (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,' 'Catalina'
8 August: 'Catalina,' 'Simmonds,' 'Miguel'
9 September: 'Catalina,' 'Bacon,' 'Miguel'
10 October: 'Hass,' 'Bacon'
11 November: 'Hass,' 'Oro-Negro'
12 December: 'Monroe,' 'Oro-Negro'

I had known about the 'Kampong' avocado but in a different article than the one brought forward by Carlos. In this, different, article, it mentioned that the fruit production of the 'Kampong' was low. Now, to me, there's a big difference between low and what Dr. Richard Campbell calls moderate. I, am eaguer to find out and, think that it will be very interesting to get, the results of Carlos' field testing of the 'Kampong' in South Florida, USA.

The Article by Dr. Richard Campbell mentions that the 'Kampong' can grow to a height of 20 meters, which is the same as 65.6 feet. The bigger the tree, the greater the production. The article mentions that the size of the tree can be maintained/controlled with no problems.

The way I would 'play' the 'Kampong' is as follows: after the tree gives up the last avocado, I would generously fertilize it only that one time per year, and then repeat the same process each following year. The goal is/would-be to domesticate the tree to produce avocados every year, from February to May.

"Mango 24/7"

I'm also calling "Mango 24/7" as being accomplished, again, only in an unscientific, civilian, layman way, as a first generation/draft.

As proposed, I'm now eating mangos off of my 'Rosigold' mango tree in the month of February. I decided to accomplish this last year and it has worked. The only problem is that since I adequately fertilized/pushed the tree every month for the past year, I will not get any ripe 'Rosigold' mangos in the month of March, as I usually do. My solution is to top work a 'Haden' tree with 'Rosigold.' In this way, I'll then have 2 'Rosigold' trees. I'll fertilize one tree every month, and the other I'll fertilize only once a year (after the last fruit on tree is gone). In this way, I'll have mangos for the month of February and March of every year. Of course, this will need to be field tested in subsequent years in order to be confirmed.

As mentioned before, the mango production for the month of November will be covered by 'Keitt.'

My next step is to remove all the mango fruit buds off of my 'Miracle' mango sometime around April of this year, in order to force it produce mango in the months of next December and January.

Mark in Texas, thank you for the kind words, sounds like a great idea for some kind of Glasshouse Avocado 24/7 Thread or something. I have to admit that I've always been very impressed and I've admired you guys up north with fruit trees in 'glasshouses.' During the years that I lived in Louisiana, it never crossed my mind that such a thing was possible. But, after seeing what you guys are able to grow in them, I'm now totally of the belief, that if you and others set your mind to it, that you also could have 'glasshouse' avocado 24/7. If I were in your place, I would concentrate on productive, dwarf avocado varieties, since I don't like to be bothered too much with the trimming/maintenance.

Please excuse this long post, but I think that it's a special occasion. Thanks to Carlos, other fruit tree professionals and Forum Members for your help/assistance on getting this done/accomplished. I can't wait for new improvements to be made that will result in the 2nd generation/draft of "Avocado 24/7" and "Mango 24/7," thanks again everybody, cheers.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on February 12, 2014, 08:40:58 AM
.....Mark in Texas, thank you for the kind words, sounds like a great idea for some kind of Glasshouse Avocado 24/7 Thread or something. I have to admit that I've always been very impressed and I've admired you guys up north with fruit trees in 'glasshouses.' During the years that I lived in Louisiana, it never crossed my mind that such a thing was possible. But, after seeing what you guys are able to grow in them, I'm now totally of the belief, that if you and others set your mind to it, that you also could have 'glasshouse' avocado 24/7. If I were in your place, I would concentrate on productive, dwarf avocado varieties, since I don't like to be bothered too much with the trimming/maintenance.

Yep, where your heart is so go your passions, and efforts.  You guys are gonna revolutionize the Florida avocado industry.  Looks like Carlos is the Julie Frink of Florida.  The guy is amazing.

Zone 8a - I like to think we have it all thanks to plenty of chill hours and this year we must be up there around 900+, the usual being 700-800.  That means we can grow the pome fruits, vinifera grapes, etc. fruits that need cold to set fruit well.  Our fruits especially our commercial peaches are some of the sweetest, juiciest and richest in the nation.

Greenhouses - where most have a disadvantage here is the required money and time.  (Properly designed) greenhouses aren't cheap and after paying labor to have mine erected it came out to about $27./s.f. turnkey.  My dwarfs consist of citrus on Flying Dragon, Gwen, Rincon, and Hazzard avocado and Pickering and Mallika mango.  It will be a challenge to keep Reed, Sharwil, and Oro Negro in line but with 10' columns and an 18' ridge it should be manageable.

Time - greenhouses require maintenance, TLC, and the 8-5 guy with 3 kids and a wife is better off with a tropical climate and a few yard trees.  You'll have disease and insect pressure growing in a greenhouse than outdoors.  You also must provide for ingress and egress of pollinators. In spite of the very cold, extended freezing temps "my" wild honey bees are going nuts. 

One botanical 'given' is plants require a good day to night differential to do well.  I used to live in Corpus Christi, 27* latitude, and growing tomatoes and other stuff was a battle.  It was not unusual for the night time lows on an August sunrise to be 82F!  Bam, there go your blossoms.  Hard on man, beast and plants! I retired and was working with TX A&M to put in an avocado research field study, sell backyard plants and commercial fruit until I decided to move out of that oven north.  Now the trend has caught on in the coastal and warmer areas of Texas where avocado trees and other tropicals such as mangos, papayas and bananas  can be found for sale in every nursery from San Antonio down south.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on February 12, 2014, 08:42:45 AM
 double post
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: shaneatwell on February 12, 2014, 10:41:13 AM
Nice work. Now we just need a post at the end of every month reporting on the avos and mangoes from that month. :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: treefrog on February 12, 2014, 11:52:59 AM
Leo look at this chart. I think I will give a try to Winter Mexican. I think this is the fruit sold at Nornan Brothers in 87 Avenue south of Sunset in Miami in March and April. I think it would grow well here. Well someone is growing them. I wonder if any of the Forum member is growing it he in Dade?

([url]http://s8.postimg.cc/oq7l4b5c1/Table_2_page_1.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/oq7l4b5c1/[/url])

carlos,
winter mexican is started in my greenhouse in north fla.  3 gal grafted from jene's tropicals in st pete. planted june 2013 only vegetative growth so far.  seems to have a "weeping" growth habit.  other than that, nothing to report (yet)

treefrog
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: JF on February 12, 2014, 01:47:29 PM
Congrats Leo. We've achive this with mangos in SoCal with Sadabahar everbearing, Manohar and the resuscitation of old California cultivar Cooper and seedling of Cambodiana. With avocados we have many combination that will keep us enjoying them year round
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on February 16, 2014, 08:11:01 AM
I picked the last 11 avocados from my friend's Choquette tree yesterday.  Some of them probably would have remained on the tree another month.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on February 16, 2014, 01:49:36 PM
Yeah, I have tasted 3 lbs Choquettes in early April
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on February 18, 2014, 08:03:53 AM
Yeah, I have tasted 3 lbs Choquettes in early April

Leo, I think that is significant for you.  Add that one to your list.  Choquette in March and April. ;D  Carlos, what do you think of the Choquette flavor?  I find it pretty bland.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on February 18, 2014, 09:07:02 AM
Yeah, I have tasted 3 lbs Choquettes in early April

Leo, I think that is significant for you.  Add that one to your list.  Choquette in March and April. ;D  Carlos, what do you think of the Choquette flavor?  I find it pretty bland.
I agree, for a late fruit is bland.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on February 18, 2014, 11:12:54 AM
FYI my son-in-law Keitt is is still holding fruit. He uses zero fertilizer.
 

Gotta love Keitt! ;D  Why doesn't PIN carry it anymore? :(

How does the Keitt compare with other late-season FL varieties?  Is it susceptible to disease here in humid FL?  I feel like many people on the forum dislike Keitt...but could be because there are new cultivars available that are exciting (ie. lemon zest, coconut cream, etc.)

Are the Keitt worth growing?  What are your opinions growing/eating them?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 19, 2014, 12:08:36 AM
Thank you everyone for the kind words and the motivation.

Mark in Texas, Carlos, Johnb51 and treefrog, you guys are leading me to the belief that the combination of 'Choquette,' 'Lula,' 'Kampong,' and 'Winter Mexican,' along with 'Kampong,' will fill the avocado void in South Florida. I believe 'Lula,' 'Choquette,' and 'WinterMexican,' have been covered/explored earlier on this Thread, but it's worth it to re-examine them again, so I will do so, thanks for the idea/recommendation.

Nice work. Now we just need a post at the end of every month reporting on the avos and mangoes from that month. :)

I like that idea.
BTW, thanks to my friend, I'm fortunate to still be enjoying his seedling 'Salavar' avocados that I'm still getting from him.
As far as mangos go, I'm still enjoying 'Rosigold' mangos in this month of February. This is after fertilizing the tree, each month of last year.

gunna429, 'Keitt' mango is one class act, it's in a class all by itself my friend, in my opinion, it's one of those 'must have' varieties.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 08, 2014, 10:11:53 PM
Bradflorida, from day one you provided the/an answer to avocado 24/7. You were right on the money with your mention of the ‘Kampong’ avocado, thank you for that very valuable input. Carlos (CTMIAMI) recently found a professional article that just about confirms this. He is currently field testing the 'Kampong.' http://www.myavocadotrees.com (http://www.myavocadotrees.com)

On the first page of this Thread, Carlos (CTMIAMI) mentioned that 'Mexicola' is not a quality fruit, but that he has experienced first hand with his own 'Mexicola' tree, that fruit will begin to ripen in early to middle of May, now that is in the middle of the S. FL Winter Avocado Void. And, although not a quality fruit, it does fill an important part of the void.

Tropicdude, you mentioned ‘Carla’ avocado as a possible contender to fill the S. Florida Winter Avocado Void, on the first page of this Thread, many thanks for that very valuable lead.

Right now, Edzone9 has reported that he’s trying to bring the ‘Carla’ avocado into the USA, for field testing in S. Florida. I am among those hoping that he succeeds in his important effort(s).

Carlos (CTMIAMI) mentioned in the first page of this Thread, that the reason the ‘Carla’ fills the winter void in the Dominican Republic is because they have elevations of 3K feet there. And, that if the ‘Carla’ were brought to the almost zero elevation in S. Florida, it would bear ripe fruit earlier than at the 2-3 K feet elevation in DR.

Now, Edzone9 has found an article that mentions that when there are no avocados in the Dominican Republic winter, ‘Carla’ is the only one in season with ripe avocado fruit. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9437.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=9437.0)

Perhaps the best way to shed light on this discrepancy, is to field test the ‘Carla’ in S. Florida, USA. And, as I’ve said earlier, once and for all determine the ripe fruit bearing behavior of the ‘Carla’ In S. Florida, USA (and elsewhere).

In the Updated “Avocado Watch–List,” the varieties ‘Kampong,’ ‘Carla’ and ‘Mexicola’ have been added as potential candidates to fill the S. Florida Winter Avocado Void.

Updated “Avocado Watch-List”
A cultivar by cultivar review from the point of view of whether these avocado varieties are being grown (field tested) in South Florida, USA.
And, to ultimately verify whether they’ll fill the ‘S.Florida-Winter Avocado Void’ (‘SFL-WAV’) months of the year of March, April, May and early June.
Key:
Underlined 'cultivars' are recommended for field testing, those that are not underlined are already being grown by a Forum Member(s).
Strikethrough 'cultivars' have been reported to mature outside the 'SFL-WAV.' They'll be kept for the record, on the "Watch-List.'
Potential 'SFL-WAV' cultivars:
Group 1: 'Sharwil,' 'Fujikawa,' 'Utuado,' 'Jan-Boyce,' ‘Reed,’ ‘Green-Gold,’ ‘Linda,’ 'Fuerte' and 'Wurtz.'
Group 2: ‘Winter-Mexican’ and ‘Winter-Mexican-Seedling (CTMIAMI).’
Group 3: ‘Don-Carlitos,’ ‘Vero-Beach’ and ‘Cellons’ Avocado.
Group 4: ‘San Miguel,’ ‘Kahaluu,’ ‘Malama,’ ‘Murashige.’
Group 5: ‘Gwen,’ ‘Santa-Ana-Hass,’ ‘Lamb-Hass,’ ‘Sir-Prize,’ ‘Holiday.'
Group 6: ‘Nabal,’ ‘Queen,’ 'Rockwood,' ‘Kampong,’ ‘Carla,’ ‘Mexicola’ …

Commentary: Which is a less quality avocado, the 'Mexicola' or the 'Choquette?' Also, a picture seems to be emerging, in order to insure that available avocado fruit is obtained March-June, these avocado cultivars have to be included: 'Monroe,' 'Lula,' 'Kampong,' and 'Mexicola. Others, are surely to follow, perhaps 'Carla' will be one of them.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: shaneatwell on March 09, 2014, 02:00:20 PM
Some points of interest (to me at least)...

I've read that mexicola is excellent and often eaten with its skin. One of the few varieties with edible skin and leaves (characteristic of pure mexican varieties). Perhaps some of the variability of the reviews has to do with those that eat the flesh alone vs. flesh with skin? I've recently grafted mexicola onto my Fuerte to try it out.

Nabal came up in my Hort class recently. According to G. Bender it was once somewhat popular but abandoned partly because of its extreme alternate bearing. We asked Dan at La Verne about Nabal and he used to carry them, but dropped them when the orders dropped below a few hundreds a year. Funny about Nabal, it always gets asked about but its really hard to find trees, even at the boutique nurseries.

Note added in proof ;)
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_14858001 (http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_14858001)
Quote
"Mexicola, the original variety that originated in Pasadena around 1910, happens to be the hardiest tree around. This is a relatively small-fruited, highly flavored Mexican avocado with anise flavored edible skin. I have to confirm they are the best avocados I've ever eaten, much better than mexicola grande. Mexicola grande is a seedling of mexicola that was selected for bigger fruit size, but it's not as flavorful as the original mexicola," he said.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 10, 2014, 07:56:48 PM
We are now in the So. Florida avocado void. Mid March. I went by Lara Nursery today, and was pleasantly surprised to lean they have several Kanpong Avocado trees, same origin as mine, Williams Farm. I even got a fruit, as you can see is all covered with scab. There were only one fruit per tree so this tree holds fruit to the first week of March. Julian said it was very tasty, very good flavor and a firm consistency with hard skin.  I hope that this fruit matures so I can taste it.  I hate scab!!!!!! :(
(http://s21.postimg.cc/5krlqutqr/IMG_5053.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/5krlqutqr/)
(http://s21.postimg.cc/t09iw7dhv/IMG_5054.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/t09iw7dhv/)

They  have grafted Kampong avocados for sale. Also some other summer varieties that are new, like Hialeah Red. Of course a red skin avocado.
I was there to pick up two Cherimoyas a San Pablo and Fernandez.

From now on is when it gets hard to find avocados in So. Florida
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: edzone9 on March 10, 2014, 08:09:47 PM
http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2002-vol-115/90-92(Campbell).pdf (http://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2002-vol-115/90-92(Campbell).pdf)

Some more info..
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 12, 2014, 02:11:38 AM
Shaneatwell, thank you for that report on the 'Mexicola,' the real 'Mexicola,' as there are several other offshoots, which after reading the informative article, seem somewhat less worthy than the 'Mexicola.' According to the article, in Santa Cruz, California, it's a quality fruit! I suppose the next step is to find out the details about its production and quality behaviour here in S. Florida. But, I'm sure glad that you are trying/checking it out where you're at, in San Diego, California.

Carlos (CTMIAMI), thank you so much for the notification. OK everybody, it's official, we heard it from Carlos: "From now on is when it gets hard to find avocados in So. Florida." So, welcome-to/we're-in The South Florida Avocado Void. Anybody who finds an avocado tree with avocados, or full of them, is a, no doubt about it, unique, great find.

Also, thank you Carlos for the info. that Lara Nursery has grafted 'Kampong' avocados. I'm seriously considering getting one. Surprisingly, I have a special spot on the yard for it.

edzone9, now that is the article about the 'Kampong' that I was familiar with. It's an important, informative article, no doubt about it. The more recently dated article about the 'Kampong' found by Carlos (CTMIAMI), just kind of impressed me with its more recent information, given by none other than Dr. Richard Campbell.

No doubt about it, we now have an arsenal of avocado cultivars to deal with the S. Florida Avocado Void: 'Monroe,' 'Lula,' 'Kampong,' 'Mexicola(?),' 'Doni,' and if you're brave enough, 'Choquette.' I can't help but wonder if someone had all these planted cultivars at an adult, well cared for stage, whether the S. FL Avocado Void will consistently be filled with avocados, year after year.

gunnar429 has mentioned that the 'Doni' avocado is watery. Well, I must say that I just love quality watery avocados in my chicken soup, along with some just squeezed lemon juice in it, to me, that is just pure happiness/comfort food.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: mikesid on March 12, 2014, 09:54:39 AM
My neighbor has avocado tree with fruit still on it...there are some on the pic you can see towards the top of the tree...I'll have to walk my dog by his house and try so if he is around so I can grab a couple...
(http://s30.postimg.cc/9gyl8foil/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/9gyl8foil/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 13, 2014, 01:26:07 AM
mikesid, yes, I see a couple on the tree. You have a keen eye, and that's a very nice picture of the avocado tree. The owner of that tree is also entering the S. Florida Avocado Void.

If we had many people doing the same as you, I'm sure that not only would we find a new avocado variety that fills the S. FL Avocado Void, but that more than one avocado variety would be found; take care mikesid, thanks and be well.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 13, 2014, 08:20:18 AM
On the next few days I will start a separate thread on the Kampong avocado and  Buck 3 avocado.
The Buck 3,  fruit starts picking this week and could last for a few weeks. This truly fills the void. The down side is that it is patented. http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573. (http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573.) Every one that I have spoken with that have tasted it says its great.
I got 3 fruits yesterday and did dry weight on one and came in at a respectable 27% very high for Florida. The seed showed this fruit could have stayed on the tree a few more weeks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: zands on March 13, 2014, 08:36:18 AM


gunnar429 has mentioned that the 'Doni' avocado is watery. Well, I must say that I just love quality watery avocados in my chicken soup, along with some just squeezed lemon juice in it, to me, that is just pure happiness/comfort food.

I like watery avocados. I like all Florida avocados. As a matter of loyalty to local Florida growers  I never buy imported Mexican Hass or California. I can't wait until my Brogdon and Lula avocados kick in producing. I would plant others if I had the room. But local Florida avocados are always sold at nice prices so I will buy watery and others throughout the year. I like the green Dominican avocados and buy them from time to time
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: mikesid on March 13, 2014, 08:58:42 AM
mikesid, yes, I see a couple on the tree. You have a keen eye, and that's a very nice picture of the avocado tree. The owner of that tree is also entering the S. Florida Avocado Void.

If we had many people doing the same as you, I'm sure that not only would we find a new avocado variety that fills the S. FL Avocado Void, but that more than one avocado variety would be found; take care mikesid, thanks and be well.
when i drove by the tree again I noticed at least 20 fruits on the tree..nobody has been around so I can't  investigate further yet...
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on March 13, 2014, 09:31:07 AM
On the next few days I will start a separate thread on the Kampong avocado and  Buck 3 avocado.
The Buck 3,  fruit starts picking this week and could last for a few weeks. This truly fills the void. The down side is that it is patented. [url]http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573.[/url] ([url]http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573.[/url]) Every one that I have spoken with that have tasted it says its great.
I got 3 fruits yesterday and did dry weight on one and came in at a respectable 27% very high for Florida. The seed showed this fruit could have stayed on the tree a few more weeks.
 

(I mean to tell you) CARLOS IS AWESOME!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 13, 2014, 11:53:40 AM
mikesid, yes, I see a couple on the tree. You have a keen eye, and that's a very nice picture of the avocado tree. The owner of that tree is also entering the S. Florida Avocado Void.

If we had many people doing the same as you, I'm sure that not only would we find a new avocado variety that fills the S. FL Avocado Void, but that more than one avocado variety would be found; take care mikesid, thanks and be well.
when i drove by the tree again I noticed at least 20 fruits on the tree..nobody has been around so I can't  investigate further yet...
Can you take clearer picture or closer? I like to see the edge of a leaf and a closer picture of the fruit. If you can.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Tropicdude on March 13, 2014, 07:41:23 PM
Just wanted to share a tidbit of information regarding the "Carla"  this variety is actually a "Margarida" from Brazil.  it was brought over by some General named Carlos,  ( calling Dr Freud ) he renamed it Carla, and got it patented.    :-\ 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: ScottR on March 13, 2014, 10:51:17 PM
Very interesting!!!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 13, 2014, 11:42:51 PM
On the next few days I will start a separate thread on the Kampong avocado and  Buck 3 avocado.
The Buck 3,  fruit starts picking this week and could last for a few weeks. This truly fills the void. The down side is that it is patented. [url]http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573.[/url] ([url]http://www.google.com/patents/USPP23573.[/url]) Every one that I have spoken with that have tasted it says its great.
I got 3 fruits yesterday and did dry weight on one and came in at a respectable 27% very high for Florida. The seed showed this fruit could have stayed on the tree a few more weeks.
 

(I mean to tell you) CARLOS IS AWESOME!!! ;D ;D ;D


I second (third...) that, Carlos is the man
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on March 14, 2014, 01:05:54 PM
Carlos, is the Wilson popenoe avocado on your website the same as the Wilson avocado on PIN's variety viewer.  I was told they don't carry it despite having it on the website.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gaston on March 14, 2014, 06:21:36 PM
some informations in spanish
http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2007-09342012000200003 (http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2007-09342012000200003)

and

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scielo.org.mx/img/revistas/remexca/v3n2/a3c2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script%3Dsci_arttext%26pid%3DS2007-09342012000200003&h=736&w=819&tbnid=JeHwBh1QxeoMXM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=100&zoom=1&usg=__V6lwQ5bsjJJ-2ULuxdqKnZVFatA=&docid=ArdD8UvQ9MP_VM&sa=X&ei=G34jU6zbK8r30gXqnYHwAw&ved=0CHIQ9QEwCQ&dur=1 (http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.scielo.org.mx/img/revistas/remexca/v3n2/a3c2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script%3Dsci_arttext%26pid%3DS2007-09342012000200003&h=736&w=819&tbnid=JeHwBh1QxeoMXM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=100&zoom=1&usg=__V6lwQ5bsjJJ-2ULuxdqKnZVFatA=&docid=ArdD8UvQ9MP_VM&sa=X&ei=G34jU6zbK8r30gXqnYHwAw&ved=0CHIQ9QEwCQ&dur=1)

Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 14, 2014, 07:15:54 PM
Carlos, is the Wilson popenoe avocado on your website the same as the Wilson avocado on PIN's variety viewer.  I was told they don't carry it despite having it on the website.
My Wilson is from Fairchild Williams farm. That is the authentic. I think Pine Island discontinued.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 15, 2014, 12:21:02 AM
mikesid, yes, I see a couple on the tree. You have a keen eye, and that's a very nice picture of the avocado tree. The owner of that tree is also entering the S. Florida Avocado Void.

If we had many people doing the same as you, I'm sure that not only would we find a new avocado variety that fills the S. FL Avocado Void, but that more than one avocado variety would be found; take care mikesid, thanks and be well.
when i drove by the tree again I noticed at least 20 fruits on the tree..nobody has been around so I can't  investigate further yet...

Wow, 20 fruits on that yet growing, young, smallish tree! That may be an important, relevant find, nice! Very interesting Mikesid!

In a tactful manner, it would be very helpful if you could find out if it's a seedling or a grafted tree. And, if it's grafted, what variety/cultivar. If as Carlos requested, you can provide a close up photo(s) of a leaf and fruit, perhaps we can get closer to solving this very interesting and exciting identity riddle/mystery.

Who knows, maybe this is the Holy Grail mango variety that we've been looking for to fill the South Florida Avocado Void.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on March 17, 2014, 12:26:52 PM
Carlos, is the Wilson popenoe avocado on your website the same as the Wilson avocado on PIN's variety viewer.  I was told they don't carry it despite having it on the website.
My Wilson is from Fairchild Williams farm. That is the authentic. I think Pine Island discontinued.

Does Fairchild Farm sell budwood?  Do you have to request it?  Do you have to be a nursery?  Thanks!

Carlos, what are your thoughts on the wilson?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 17, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
I tasted it long time ago. It is still a commercial cultivar in some countries. I got some bud wood a few weeks ago but I don't think they are taking, very rare for me to have 100 failure, but that's is what it looks like.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: FLnative on March 17, 2014, 04:22:12 PM
Carlos, is the Wilson popenoe avocado on your website the same as the Wilson avocado on PIN's variety viewer.  I was told they don't carry it despite having it on the website.
My Wilson is from Fairchild Williams farm. That is the authentic. I think Pine Island discontinued.

Does Fairchild Farm sell budwood?  Do you have to request it?  Do you have to be a nursery?  Thanks!

I have a Wilson popenoe avocado tree from Excalibur Fruit Trees. You can have budwood, just PM me.
Carlos, what are your thoughts on the wilson?

Gunnar, I have a Wilson popenoe avocado tree from Excalibur Fruit Trees. You can have budwood, just PM me.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 17, 2014, 06:40:38 PM
I tasted it long time ago. It is still a commercial cultivar in some countries. I got some bud wood a few weeks ago but I don't think they are taking, very rare for me to have 100% failure, but that's is what it looks like.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on March 27, 2014, 01:46:54 PM
Avocado trees in Portugal even in north country:  http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/ (http://abacateportugal.blogspot.pt/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 27, 2014, 07:53:24 PM
"Avocados in Corroios, Portugal. These beautiful are a tree that has not been grafted. They get caught with some green and at home to get ready to eat take the dark brown color. Vegetable butter!"

Luisport, those vegetable butter seedling avocados look delicious. I hope that they are being propagated so that they don't go extinct. Have you tried them?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on March 28, 2014, 07:55:53 AM
"Avocados in Corroios, Portugal. These beautiful are a tree that has not been grafted. They get caught with some green and at home to get ready to eat take the dark brown color. Vegetable butter!"

Luisport, those vegetable butter seedling avocados look delicious. I hope that they are being propagated so that they don't go extinct. Have you tried them?
No, this blog is from joaovox  that introduce himself yesterday. Maby he get or can get some fruits...  ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 29, 2014, 12:56:46 AM
Look forward to further reports on this butter avocado variety. I sure wish it were here in Florida to check it out, who knows, maybe it's already here in the USA.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on October 26, 2014, 07:49:44 PM
In this 2013 updated, University of Florida article, it indirectly highlights the fact that the month of the year, April, is the one month when no avocados are to be found:

"...Season: late May to March."

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg373 (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg373)

Avocado 24/7 Cocktail Tree Update:

I've moved the 'Lula' avocado tree from the hellish location where it was surrounded by 'Mysore' banana trees, to a prime location in the yard. After it has established itself and grown a bit, I'm planning to graft onto it several avocado cultivar grafts from the Avocado 24/7 List on this Thread.

I've become quite fond of the 'Lula' avocado. It's a productive cultivar that will hold fruit for an extended period during the winter months. During those winter months, the fruit becomes somewhat brownish and hard on the outside. But, during this time, when the fruit is removed from the tree and brought inside at room temperature, after approximately a couple of days, the fruit softens to the touch. The flesh is none the worse in comparison to the exterior appearance of the fruit. The flesh is quite pristine and ready to be eaten and enjoyed; at least this has been my experience.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 02, 2015, 07:46:33 PM
Carlos, thank you for deciding to propagate my friend's 'Salavarria' ('Salavar') avocado seedling. As we all witnessed, it still had some avocado fruit hanging on the tree. So, it seems that it will produce fruit every year, even though the crop quantity seems to be a bit less than last year. Perhaps this variety will alternate with a heavier crop from one year to the next. Also, this may have to do with the fact that my friend Salavariia only fertilizes the tree with poop from his dogs, whom you met. With proper yearly fertilization, the avocado fruit production could be increased substantially.

This is the second year in a row that my friend's 'Salavarria' avocado seedling has produced plentiful fruit for 2 years in a row, from the time that the seed was planted 3 years ago! It is indeed a fast grower and a fast producer.

It was a real pleasure to see you do the avocado propagation in person, it was somewhat surreal, since I've seen your educational avocado videos online, on the Internet.
Me and my friend Salavarria were quite impressed with your expertise and professionalism, thanks again. I hope this 'Salavarria' avocado variety is useful to you and ultimately to the general community and beyond.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on February 02, 2015, 10:39:10 PM
Leo, granfted 3 trees with the bud wood form the Salavar tree. We'll know in a couple of years may be less. Patience is all it takes. Thanks for your assistance in the operation,
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 07, 2015, 09:32:13 PM
2 to 3 years is not too long of a wait to obtain fruit from a tree. This is a very impressive technique that you use to accomplish fruit bearing this quickly. It's like a fast forward acceleration for fruit bearing.

BTW, we are already in February and the month of April is fast approaching. As we all know, in the month of April, there are no ripe avocados to be found anywhere in South Florida, USA; other than the 'Kampong' avocado variety which alternates somewhat. It would really be great if this year a verifiable ripe avocado bearing fruit tree is found during this upcoming month of April.

Mind Storm: What would happen if a 'Lula' avocado (which holds fruit late into March during the winter) is crossed with a 'Kampong?' Has it ever been done? If not, perhaps a 'Lula' X 'Kampong' should be done, if only to find out whether it will consistently be the only new avocado variety that consistently fills the month of April with avocado fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on February 07, 2015, 11:33:51 PM
It would take more than just a Lula x kampong IMO.  You would need to plant out many of those crosses and evaluate & document them over years.  Totally possible, but who's gonna/can do it?  It's more difficult than it sounds.  Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on February 08, 2015, 10:24:38 AM
I do know I'm too old for breeding avocados.
Now for those with age an patience. USDA have a gene test that can narrow the characteristics of the seedling as soon as the seedling has some size. So in actuality now breeding has been accelerated and you would only plant to term the seedlings that you decide need your criteria.
Just need money, land and time
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on February 08, 2015, 05:14:03 PM
I do know I'm too old for breeding avocados.
Now for those with age an patience. USDA have a gene test that can narrow the characteristics of the seedling as soon as the seedling has some size. So in actuality now breeding has been accelerated and you would only plant to term the seedlings that you decide need your criteria.
Just need money, land and time

1 out of 3 ain't bad  ;)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 08, 2015, 05:47:27 PM
Yeah, that 'ain't' bad. Also, even though it may take a few years to discover a seedling, or develop a new variety (like Carlos mentioned), that bears ripe avocado fruit in the month of April, it certainly is a highly rewarding endeavor once the goal is achieved.

For example, I couldn't help but feel a very good sense of pride for my friend Salavarria (and all involved), when Carlos passed by and propagated his 'Salavar' avocado seedling. It was certainly an experience to cherish and remember.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: yudi_nuw on February 08, 2015, 09:42:29 PM
We are trying and we will succeed is only a matter of time.
I have manggo mangifera torqueda and casturi, . do you  want it?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on February 09, 2015, 09:59:04 AM
We are trying and we will succeed is only a matter of time.
I have manggo mangifera torqueda and casturi, . do you  want it?
mangifera are not allowed into USA from other countries
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on February 10, 2015, 07:33:53 PM
We are trying and we will succeed is only a matter of time.
I have manggo mangifera torqueda and casturi, . do you  want it?

If I may: I'm of the believe that there is always a safe and legal way to get this done; some creativity may be required. You're very kind to offer, thank you.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on March 06, 2015, 08:44:41 PM
Leo, granfted 3 trees with the bud wood form the Salavar tree. We'll know in a couple of years may be less. Patience is all it takes. Thanks for your assistance in the operation,
Leo I have 100% takes we have 3 trees of Salavar growing
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 13, 2015, 11:21:32 PM
Carlos, thank you for the update on the progress of the 'Salavar.' And, congrats on the news that the grafts took, I'm sure that your grafting expertise has something to do with it. I hope that under your professional care, we'll get to know more about the productivity behavior of this interesting new seedling/variety. The owner of the 'Salavar' avocado mother tree, told me last week that the tree is currently flowering like crazy. So far, this is the best one of his avocado seedlings.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 03, 2015, 12:18:38 AM
14 Reasons to Eat Avocados Year 'Round

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/lifestyle/2015/05/01/14-things-you-need-to-know-about-avocados/?cid=hero_media (http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/lifestyle/2015/05/01/14-things-you-need-to-know-about-avocados/?cid=hero_media)

1. Although they’re often referred to as a vegetable, avocados are technically a fruit — they’re a single-seed berry that grows on a tree!

2. There are hundreds of different types of avocados, ranging from the oval-shaped, light-skinned bacon variety to the pear-shaped, thin-skinned zutano variety. Each type differs in shape, size, skin type, taste, and texture.

3. The color of an avocado’s skin isn’t the best way to determine ripeness. Hold the avocado in the palm of your hand and give it a gentle squeeze instead; ripe avocado will be firm, but will yield slightly to gentle pressure.

4. You can ripen avocados by placing them in a plain brown paper bag and storing them at room temperature. Adding an apple or banana to the bag will speed the ripening process.

5. You should wash avocados thoroughly before slicing into them; this helps prevent any germs that may be on the skin from getting on the fruit inside.

NUTRITION

6. Avocados help the body absorb more fat-soluble nutrients from foods that are eaten with them. So eating avocados and tomatoes together, for example, can boost your intake of beta carotene.

7. Avocados are naturally cholesterol-free.

8. “Over 75 percent of the fat in avocados is unsaturated fat,” according to Avocado Central, “and studies show replacing saturated fat with unsaturated fat while staying within calorie needs is more effective in reducing the risk of heart disease than simply lowering total fat intake.”

9. Better than a multi-vitamin? One ounce of avocado (about one fifth of a medium avocado) has nearly 20 different vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients.

COOKING WITH AVOCADO

10. Use avocados in place of butter when you’re baking; they’ll help keep baked goods moister for a longer period of time.

11. Cook thick slices of avocado on a grill for a nice, smoky flavor — and some beautiful char marks.

12. Avocados make a healthy alternative to creamy frozen pudding pops. Just mix avocado with lime juice and honey to taste and then blend the avocado mixture into twice as much milk before freezing in Popsicle molds.

 HISTORY AND CULTURE

13. Avocados have been around for a long time; the oldest evidence of their consumption dates back to almost 8,000 BCE.

14. Avocados are the Aztec symbol of love and fertility because they cannot self-pollinate. They even grow in pairs!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 04, 2015, 10:59:38 PM
Case in Point

I knew avocados were very nutritious, but this information just came to my attention today and it 'kinda' blew me away:

"Top 40 Cancer-Fighting Foods A-Z"

At number two (2) is the Avocado!

http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com (http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com)

Carlos is so right when he says that avocados are the perfect food.

P.S.   Although I've been fortunate not to have or have had cancer, I find this to be quite useful, preventative, information.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: fisherking73 on May 05, 2015, 09:23:21 AM
Even more reasons for me to eat avocado lol I eat at least one every other day. Can't wait to have my own tree fruiting though. Now if I could just pick one to plant in the front yard. Have it down to Monroe, Catalina and Wurtz.  Gonna grow my oro negro in pots until it gives a few fruit and see how I like it. Worse case scenario it goes to some elses home to plant , best case I have to find a spot for it LOL  Thanks for the info Leooel
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on May 05, 2015, 10:21:34 AM
Case in Point

I knew avocados were very nutritious, but this information just came to my attention today and it 'kinda' blew me away:

"Top 40 Cancer-Fighting Foods A-Z"

At number two (2) is the Avocado!

[url]http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com[/url] ([url]http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com[/url])

P.S.   Although I've been fortunate not to have or have had cancer, I find this to be quite useful, preventative, information.


Just to clarify, that #2 ranking is based on alphabetical order rather than a distinct advantage over other foods on the list.  Still awesome for you, though!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 05, 2015, 02:25:32 PM
Case in Point

I knew avocados were very nutritious, but this information just came to my attention today and it 'kinda' blew me away:

"Top 40 Cancer-Fighting Foods A-Z"

At number two (2) is the Avocado!

[url]http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com[/url] ([url]http://www.thetruthaboutcancer.com[/url])

P.S.   Although I've been fortunate not to have or have had cancer, I find this to be quite useful, preventative, information.


Just to clarify, that #2 ranking is based on alphabetical order rather than a distinct advantage over other foods on the list.  Still awesome for you, though!


Good point, thanks.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 05, 2015, 02:27:10 PM
Even more reasons for me to eat avocado lol I eat at least one every other day. Can't wait to have my own tree fruiting though. Now if I could just pick one to plant in the front yard. Have it down to Monroe, Catalina and Wurtz.  Gonna grow my oro negro in pots until it gives a few fruit and see how I like it. Worse case scenario it goes to some elses home to plant , best case I have to find a spot for it LOL  Thanks for the info Leooel
Your welcome, I also find the information very useful and it reinforces what Carlos has been saying all along, that avocados are the perfect food.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: gunnar429 on June 26, 2015, 02:09:37 PM
Is your tree a dwarf this one is. It is 4 to 5 feet 5 years old and full of fruit
([url]http://s8.postimg.cc/5z0ucome9/001.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/5z0ucome9/[/url])

([url]http://s10.postimg.cc/67bkyhdet/002.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/67bkyhdet/[/url])


Any updates on Daisy avocado?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 27, 2015, 10:42:38 PM
06-27-2015: Entry 1 of 3

This is an update on some kind of a grafted, dwarfed, 'Monroe' avocado tree that BSB selected for me at Excalibur Nursery. This tree has about 2-3 grafting-knots (what's the proper term?)! I've had it for some years now. Its planted location is not optimum. It catches some shade off of a giant 'Royal Poinciana' pretty-flower tree (I've had on and off visions of shopping down the whole 'GP' flower-tree).

The tree is currently, still, at about 4 feet tall. And, for the very first time ever, this year it has the very first, growing, avocado fruit. So, as you can imagine, it's 'kinda' exciting. I hope the fruit keeps growing and ripens, so that I can taste a 'Monroe' avocado for (probably) the very first time.

I hope this development means that I'll be getting 'Monroe' avocado fruit every year from now on.

I consider 'Monroe' to be an excellent variety choice (at least in my location) that will fill about 2-3 months of the year with ripe avocados, among a collection of specific target varieties, with the outcome purpose of having avocado fruit year 'round (24/7).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 27, 2015, 10:46:00 PM
06-27-2015: Entry 2 of 3

Watermelon/Avocado Fruit Smoothie Recipe (*)

“Two amazingly refreshing summer snacks made from watermelon are watermelon smoothies and watermelon pops. For smoothies, cut a watermelon into small pieces and remove the seeds. Take about 2 cups of watermelon and put it into the blender. Add a cup of frozen strawberries and about a half cup of yogurt or kefir (or homemade almond milk) and a little honey (to taste). If you want it a bit thicker, add a frozen banana or even an avocado (try adding half an avocado to your smoothie and you’ll see how good it tastes). Blend and enjoy. For the watermelon pops, cut a watermelon into bite-sized pieces, remove the seeds, stick a toothpick in them and freeze. Enjoy!”

(*)
Watermelon’s Surprising Anti-Cancer Nutrients
http://thetruthaboutcancer.com/watermelon-anti-cancer-nutrients/ (http://thetruthaboutcancer.com/watermelon-anti-cancer-nutrients/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 27, 2015, 10:49:28 PM
06-27-2015: Entry 3 of 3

Carlos
Here is three pictures of the daisy fruit. The fruit is ready now nice buttery flavor.
([url]http://s15.postimg.cc/5ttbb09qv/001.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/5ttbb09qv/[/url])

([url]http://s7.postimg.cc/eeocf3ihj/002.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/eeocf3ihj/[/url])

([url]http://s11.postimg.cc/gjm0vs5i7/003.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.cc/image/gjm0vs5i7/[/url])


That is really nice!  What's in its background, Dupuis, Pinkerton?



That looks just like my Pinkerton...I wonder if just mislabeled??

Jeff, perhaps TREESNMORE can share more insights on this variety; like: (1) What months of the year in S. Florida does the fruit ripen? (2) Is it a prolific fruit producer? (3) Is it an alternate bearer or consistent bearer of fruit? (4) And, what is TREESNMORE’s location again?

Also, be sure to check out Carlos' Website (*), he is growing a 'Daisy' avocado tree, and it is already a very nice size of a tree (see picture). With the method that Carlos uses to test avocado varieties, I would respectfully guess that his tree will have edible ripe fruit in about a year or so! But, Carlos is the expert, I'm sure he can shed more light/'info' about this.

Is Daisy a new variety or just one under a different name? It looks to me like a new sexy looking variety, I guess we'll see through either TREESNMORE and/or Carlos.

(*)   http://www.myavocadotrees.com/daisy-avocado.html (http://www.myavocadotrees.com/daisy-avocado.html)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on June 28, 2015, 10:47:16 AM
The Daisy tree did not set any fruit this year in its first flowering but I'm sure we'll see some next year.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 28, 2015, 07:50:32 PM
The Daisy tree did not set any fruit this year in its first flowering but I'm sure we'll see some next year.
I'm looking forward to it. In your web page, the 'Daisy' avocado tree is sure looking fine; thank you for the update.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on March 31, 2016, 08:22:47 PM
Question: Has anyone removed all the bloom flowers from their 'Miracle' mango (also know as 'Chok-anon) in order to force ripe fruit production during the Winter Season (December - January) in South Florida?

This is exactly what I just did about 4 days ago.

A relative of mine that also lives in Miami, FL, also has a 'Miracle' mango tree, that started giving him ripe fruit production in the months of December - January (winter months), when the tree was just 20 feet tall. I've personally witnessed this myself. The tree was planted near the sidewalk that goes by his house. And, pedestrians would occasionally gawk in awe, when they look up and see ripening/ripe mangos during the months of December - January; when the mango season has been long over for all the other mango varieties.

My 'Miracle' mango tree is past 20' in height, and I have never gotten ripe mangos from it during the winter months of Dec. - Jan.

I hope that by removing all the flower blooms predisposes it to give me ripe mango fruit this coming Dec. - Jan.

If this is achieved, I think this would be the last piece in the puzzle of having Mango 24/7 at this location.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on April 24, 2016, 02:19:01 PM
My Bacon Avocado in flower...  ;D

(http://s31.postimg.cc/3xgimuhqv/Bacon_Avocado_in_flower.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/3xgimuhqv/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on April 24, 2016, 11:02:28 PM
Luis my Bacon tree as about that size and it set a tremendous amount of fruit and almost died. It has never been the same after that. Bacon sets a lot of fruit I suggests that if it does just leave 3-4. and let the tree build a nice root system.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Luisport on April 25, 2016, 03:45:41 AM
Luis my Bacon tree as about that size and it set a tremendous amount of fruit and almost died. It has never been the same after that. Bacon sets a lot of fruit I suggests that if it does just leave 3-4. and let the tree build a nice root system.
Hi! My avocado trees never gave fruit... infortunately! They already have 4 years on the ground. I have hope this year my bacon and reed avocados set fruit, but i will not let them have a lot of it if it happens. Thank's!  ;D
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on August 08, 2016, 06:01:56 PM
Carlos, thank you for the update on the progress of the 'Salavar.' And, congrats on the news that the grafts took, I'm sure that your grafting expertise has something to do with it. I hope that under your professional care, we'll get to know more about the productivity behavior of this interesting new seedling/variety. The owner of the 'Salavar' avocado mother tree, told me last week that the tree is currently flowering like crazy. So far, this is the best one of his avocado seedlings.
Salavar is growing well. Set fruit in its first flowering, nice sign specially on an off year. . See pictures. Is in an area that gets sprayed for scab so far they look very clean. May be too big for August if they are going to hang on the tree to March but we'll see. Thanks Leo for making it possible.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/v8r395yjf/IMG_1551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/v8r395yjf/)

(https://s9.postimg.cc/8lbu30izf/IMG_1552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8lbu30izf/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 29, 2017, 07:35:31 PM
Carlos, that's a wonderful picture of Salavar Avocados. You are the only person I know that could have gotten this variety to produce fruit so quickly, congratulations.
As we have mentioned, this is the best variety resulting from several avocado seeds that a friend of mine (Salavar.) planted. I contacted you, and you were very gracious and passionate enough to propagate this variety, for which Mr. Salavar. and me are very greatful. Mr. Salavar. moved to a new location. I no longer have access to the 'mother' Salavar Avocado variety original tree, so I don't know how it's doing.

If you could provide, at your convenience, the period of time during the year that the tree produces ripe fruit, I'd really appreciate it and it would be welcome news. Thank you for the last report on the Salavar Avocado, it was really a joy to get the news.

Carlos, thank you for the update on the progress of the 'Salavar.' And, congrats on the news that the grafts took, I'm sure that your grafting expertise has something to do with it. I hope that under your professional care, we'll get to know more about the productivity behavior of this interesting new seedling/variety. The owner of the 'Salavar' avocado mother tree, told me last week that the tree is currently flowering like crazy. So far, this is the best one of his avocado seedlings.
Salavar is growing well. Set fruit in its first flowering, nice sign specially on an off year. . See pictures. Is in an area that gets sprayed for scab so far they look very clean. May be too big for August if they are going to hang on the tree to March but we'll see. Thanks Leo for making it possible.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/v8r395yjf/IMG_1551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/v8r395yjf/)

(https://s9.postimg.cc/8lbu30izf/IMG_1552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8lbu30izf/)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 29, 2017, 08:06:38 PM
Carlos, I just got back from Homestead, after searching for a grafted 'Kampong' variety avocado. I was able to find 15 gallon potted 'Kampong' avocado for about $100, from a reliable source. I didn't find the 3 gal. size I was looking for. I'm planning to resume the search next Monday.

While I was at Homestead, someone at one of the nurseries brought to my attention information that there's a variety that produces ripe fruit in April! I was told the name of this avocado variety is either 'April' (English) or 'Abril' (Spanish). I thought I would bring it to your attention, just in case you know anything about it. The nursery worker told me that they had this 'producing' avocado variety, but that they weren't propagating it because people just didn't know about it, and thus were not purchasing it. I was perplexed to hear him say that, because if this 'Abril' Avocado variety does produce ripe fruit in April, this would pretty much fill the South-Florida-Winter-Avocado-Void (S.FL-W.A.V.)!


Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Das Bhut on April 29, 2017, 08:40:23 PM
Anyone have a recommendation for how many gallons of water / how frequently should you water a 3 gallon avocado or mango when you first put it in ground?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: spaugh on April 29, 2017, 09:31:15 PM
Anyone have a recommendation for how many gallons of water / how frequently should you water a 3 gallon avocado or mango when you first put it in ground?

Lots of variables like where you live and if it rains and how hot, how humid, etc.  But a very small tree will only need 5 to 10 gallons a week during summer.  Its ok to over water if your soil drains well but not so much if its heavy clay or something that stays soggy. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Das Bhut on April 29, 2017, 09:43:32 PM
Anyone have a recommendation for how many gallons of water / how frequently should you water a 3 gallon avocado or mango when you first put it in ground?

Lots of variables like where you live and if it rains and how hot, how humid, etc.  But a very small tree will only need 5 to 10 gallons a week during summer.  Its ok to over water if your soil drains well but not so much if its heavy clay or something that stays soggy.

Sometimes I forget that not everyone here is in sandy Broward
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on April 29, 2017, 10:35:38 PM
Spaugh, I appreciate it (and I'm quite surprised) that in your heading you note that you're an amateur gardener (and so am I, and I'm sure most on this Forum are too). But, I sure couldn't tell from your response, which was one of the most professional and perfect responses I've seen in a long time, thank you.

Anyone have a recommendation for how many gallons of water / how frequently should you water a 3 gallon avocado or mango when you first put it in ground?

Lots of variables like where you live and if it rains and how hot, how humid, etc.  But a very small tree will only need 5 to 10 gallons a week during summer.  Its ok to over water if your soil drains well but not so much if its heavy clay or something that stays soggy.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: spaugh on April 30, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
Spaugh, I appreciate it (and I'm quite surprised) that in your heading you note that you're an amateur gardener (and so am I, and I'm sure most on this Forum are too). But, I sure couldn't tell from your response, which was one of the most professional and perfect responses I've seen in a long time, thank you.

Anyone have a recommendation for how many gallons of water / how frequently should you water a 3 gallon avocado or mango when you first put it in ground?

Lots of variables like where you live and if it rains and how hot, how humid, etc.  But a very small tree will only need 5 to 10 gallons a week during summer.  Its ok to over water if your soil drains well but not so much if its heavy clay or something that stays soggy.

Ehh Im just a red neck who manages to make a few plants grow.  ;)  watering is one of those things you just need to get a feel for.  Ive seen videos of people using tensionmeter etc to read the soil moisture.  I just do it based on how the weather is.  Same with fertilizer.  Just do it every month or 2 when the trees are growing.  Maybe more often in sandy soil. 
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 05, 2017, 08:11:26 PM
Yesterday, finally bought the 'Choquette' avocado variety. I'm trying to fill in the South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void (S.FL-WAV). I've heard from reliable sources that it's a bit bland, but I can't be too picky during the S.FL-WAV. Besides, the 'Choquette' is known to consistently produce lots of large sized avocados!

  I wish the process of purchasing this avocado variety  had gone down more smoothly. Briefly, this is what happened:
   Day before yesterday, I was looking to purchase a 3 gallon 'Choquette,' from a reputable nursery (un-named) in Miami-Dade County, all to lower the chances of propagating/getting the 'beetle-fungus' avocado disease that's been in the news lately. So, I 'call'm' up & a person tells me that 'yeah, we got'm but their roots need to strengthen.' After making my plea, 'person' says 'OK,' but we still have to charge full price,' & I say OK.
   Yesterday, before leaving go get the 3 gal. 'Choquette,' I call the same employee, who then says, 'OK' ask for me when you get here.' When I got there, I was shown a quantity of about 100 'Choquette' avos., 3 gal. each, and then told they had all just been sold to one individual; disappointing doesn't begin to cover it. Lesson Learned: Buy the fruit tree the same day they say they have it. Then, trying to save the situation, I called an acquaintance who owns a nearby nursery, who confirmed they had 5? gal. 'Choquette; this nursery is 'nice people,' but less reputable. I went home & planted the much larger tree. While I was planting it, I noticed it had ~3 tiny avocados on it.
   I hope luck is on my side, that (1) the tree doesn't have the 'beetle-fungus' disease and (2) that the variety is indeed 'Choquette.' That's one 'if' too many.
   In conclusion, there is a lot of demand for avocados, especially during this time period of the year that we're in right now, the South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void (S.FL-WAV).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 06, 2017, 10:08:56 AM
When picked early, Choquette is watery, but left on the tree, it develops more flavor and sufficient oil content.  It's a worthy avocado in the West Indian family, but tends to skip a year then bear heavily.  Definitely a large, clean, and beautiful fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 06, 2017, 11:39:12 AM
Leo where did you get the nice 5 gal Choquette. I'm looking for one
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 06, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
This is the first time that I hear that the 'Choquette' avocado skips a year, I guess I'm about to find out and I'll report on it; thank you for the valuable, specific info.

When picked early, Choquette is watery, but left on the tree, it develops more flavor and sufficient oil content.  It's a worthy avocado in the West Indian family, but tends to skip a year then bear heavily.  Definitely a large, clean, and beautiful fruit.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 06, 2017, 04:44:40 PM
Carlos, I got the 5 gal. 'Choquette' avocado variety from Ray's Nursery.

I haven't been able to bring myself to purchase the 'Kampong' avocado variety, because of its reputation of being an alternate bearer. If 'Choquette' is also alternating, then having both varieties alternating each other in the home yard, could be an adequate solution to the South-Florida Winter Avocado Void (S.FL-WAV).

'Kampong' avocado variety: I've heard very nice things about the quality of the flesh inside the fruit. Although the exterior is reported to sometimes look unappealing, it doesn't affect the quality of the flesh inside the fruit. I wouldn't be surprised if I find myself buying this variety at a later date.

'Lula' avocado variety: I got it about a year ago. I have it in full Sun, and in a prominent location in my yard, as in a proud display. It's growing non-stop (which I like), it's growing straight up, and I can't wait to get fruit from this, one of the most, if not the most famous variety of all avocados (after 'Hass'). From personal observed experience, it consistently holds fruit on the tree crazy far into the winter months, as I've mentioned at the beginning of this Thread. (Now that I think about it, my observations tend to validate JohnB51's report that 'Choquette' alternates). I recall to have heard very good things about the quality of the 'Lula' flesh (but not perfection). And, the seed is arguably the best for avocado rootstock. This truly is a classic, amazing avocado variety, IMO.

It seems that so far there are yet no perfect avocado variety solutions for the S.FL-WAV. For perfection we'll probably have to wait for genetically altered avocado varieties, using the CRISPR-Cas9 technology, discovered by 2 female scientists working together; Doudna (USA) and Charpentier (EU). Nevertheless, one had to appreciate the fact that there are solutions to the S.FL-WAV, even though they may not be perfect.

Leo where did you get the nice 5 gal Choquette. I'm looking for one
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 06, 2017, 07:38:10 PM
Thanks Leo I will check Ray's Choquettes next week.
Glad you mentioned the Kampong. I tasted one fruit some time ago was very good but large seed and it was full of scab. I did top worked a tree  that should be on its second flowering should have some fruit. I will send you PM iF I do,
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 06, 2017, 10:48:42 PM
Thank you Carlos, I'll be looking forward to it.

The 'Kampong' avocado, it's a Winter Warrior variety. It's like 'Beauty and the Beast,' with its ugly scab exterior, its famous quality flesh (not affected by the exterior scab-skin), and large seed, it's definitely on my radar as another variety/tool (besides 'Lula' and 'Choquette') to tackle the South-Florida Winter-Avocado-Void (S.FL-WAV).

Gotta have avocado year round!

Thanks Leo I will check Ray's Choquettes next week.
Glad you mentioned the Kampong. I tasted one fruit some time ago was very good but large seed and it was full of scab. I did top worked a tree  that should be on its second flowering should have some fruit. I will send you PM iF I do,
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 06, 2017, 11:48:32 PM
My friend had a Choquette tree for many years so that's where I observed the alternate-bearing habit, but he didn't give it much care.  So could that have possibly encouraged the alternate bearing?  When he died, his wife chopped the tree down because she always hated the fruit, being a big Hass fan (even if they came from the supermarket!)  Personally I thought the fruit was very worthwhile.  However, Lula is superior in flavor.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 12, 2017, 03:00:34 AM
Thanks for the info Johnb51.

My grafted 'Choquette' avocado is only 2' tall & already has a small fruit on it. Can't wait to try the fruit of this variety.

IMO: Because off season avocados are in such high demand, new varieties to be found should come from seeds of: Lula, Choquette, & Kampong...

My friend had a Choquette tree for many years so that's where I observed the alternate-bearing habit, but he didn't give it much care.  So could that have possibly encouraged the alternate bearing?  When he died, his wife chopped the tree down because she always hated the fruit, being a big Hass fan (even if they came from the supermarket!)  Personally I thought the fruit was very worthwhile.  However, Lula is superior in flavor.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Zafra on May 12, 2017, 09:44:10 AM
Here Choquette season is peak avocado season. Funny, when I first moved here from Hassland (CA), before we bought our land and planting fruit trees became a thing - the thing - for me, I thought I was in avocado heaven specifically because of the Choquette! Hass to me were always oily/slimy and turned brown too fast, and I hadn't tried any of the other possibly superior CA varieties. To me Choquette was avocado butter, creamy but not oily, and I went from an avocado liker to a I must find a way to grow avocado year-round avocado addict. Imagine my surprise to come to this forum and find that Choquette is not only considered a watercado, but from what I can tell the most dissed watercado of them all! Makes me think that what Carlos says about terroir affecting fruit quality could be playing a part between Venezuelan and Florida grown Choquette. I like Catalina too though it's a bit sweet, and a good Pollack is good but they have a tendency towards quality issues here - we'll have to see in a few years how our own turn out. The avocado I've found to be a true WATERcado, and tasteless, rubbery and/or fibrous to boot, is Russell - for the life of me I can't figure out why people chose to propagate it.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 14, 2017, 01:37:59 PM
I have never tasted a 'Choquette' avocado, but from what I've heard from you (Zafra) and others, I'm quite certain that I'll like it.

I'm hoping to harvest some fruit in 2 years. Right now, my just planted 'Choquette' avocado tree is 2.5 feet tall. It came with a tiny avocado fruit on it, which I'll likely end up removing to promote root development.

My main concern with this 'Choquette' avocado tree is that I suspect that it is an air-layer propagation, and that its future health, and fruit production, will suffer from nematodes... munching on its roots.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 16, 2017, 09:27:34 PM
Florida W.A.V. Tree List for Avocado 24/7 in Florida
(From page 18 of this Thread)

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
3 March: 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
4 April: 'Kampong'
5 May: 'Kampong'
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds' (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,' 'Catalina'
8 August: 'Catalina,' 'Simmonds,' 'Miguel'
9 September: 'Catalina,' 'Bacon,' 'Miguel'
10 October: 'Hass,' 'Bacon'
11 November: 'Hass,' 'Oro-Negro'
12 December: 'Monroe,' 'Oro-Negro'

These are the 'Florida:24/7-Avocados' that I have in my yard (the ones in parenthesis are the ones that I'm hunting to get):

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' ('Kampong')
3 March: ('Kampong')
4 April: ('Kampong')
5 May: ('Kampong')
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds' (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,' 'Catalina'
8 August: 'Catalina,' 'Simmonds,'
9 September: 'Catalina,' ('Bacon,')
10 October: ('Bacon')
11 November: ('Oro-Negro')
12 December: 'Monroe,' ('Oro-Negro')

I've become convinced that 'Kampong' will not reliably produce ripe fruit every year for the months of April & May. The best chance to get those months covered with ripe avocado is with patented varieties, and/or by gene editing, say a 'Lula' or a 'Kampong' avocado variety, with the new gene editing technology known as CRISPR (gene editing is easy, the trick is to know where to edit); IMO.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 18, 2017, 08:10:46 PM
I was able to get the 'Oro Negro' avocado variety from Lara Farms Nursery, and it's already planted.

I still have to get the 'Bacon' and 'Kampong.'

These are the 'Florida:24/7-Avocados' that I have in my yard now (the ones in parenthesis are the ones that I'm hunting to get):

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' ('Kampong')
3 March: ('Kampong')
4 April: ('Kampong')
5 May: ('Kampong')
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds;' per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,'
8 August: 'Simmonds,'
9 September: ('Bacon,')
10 October: ('Bacon')
11 November: 'Oro-Negro'
12 December: 'Monroe,' 'Oro-Negro'

I removed 'Catalina' from the List because I believe what I have instead is a 'Russell;' due to its elongated shape.

It'll be interesting to see how the avocado varieties ripen in real life when compared to the above List, which I'm calling the FL - Winter Avocado Void System (S.FL-WAVS).

I expect some ripening variation between real life and the FL-WAVS List above. IMO, the mainly responsible culprits for variations in fruit ripening periods are the Earth's orbit around the Sun, and the Sun itself. i.e. In the Middle Ages (fewer people & no carbon fuel emissions), there was a period of Global Warming. Afterwards, this was followed by a Little Ice Age. This change in global temperatures can only be attributed to the usual suspect, the Sun (and its temperature cycles).

Many thanks go to those who've contributed to the creation of the above list, and especially to the Administrators of this Forum who have made it all possible.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: skhan on May 18, 2017, 08:17:21 PM
I grafted one recently. I have the pic on my for sale thread if your interested.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 18, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Thank you very much for the offer. My situation is one where I have to find a 'Bacon' and a 'Kampong' of a specific size and shape. And, with all due respect, I don't want to trouble you as to why this has to be so. But, I'll check out your grafted avocado and let you know if anything.

I grafted one recently. I have the pic on my for sale thread if your interested.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: CTMIAMI on May 19, 2017, 09:17:32 AM
The taste of Bacon in So. Florida is not worth growing. In my opinion
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 19, 2017, 10:08:28 AM
The taste of Bacon in So. Florida is not worth growing. In my opinion

Even in California, its home turf, Bacon is not one of the best, sort of the Cal version of "water-cados," very bland.

I've been told that Day is August/September, and Wurtz is October/November, so these might be better choices, both considered flavorful.  I have both (with Simmonds as my summer avocado, and Oro Negro late fall/winter), but they haven't fruited yet, so I can't confirm when they ripen.  (Excalibur has both--they do well in PB County, not sure about Dade.)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 23, 2017, 09:55:57 PM
I'm quite surprised about the thumbs down comments on the taste of the 'Bacon' by Carlos and John, thanks for the valuable info guys.

I will take another closer look at whether the 'Bacon' is the best choice for the indicated time period.

P.S.   There is currently a lot of commercial competition to have the ability to produce tasty avocados in the Off Season (which we are currently in right now; April-May), which include private/patented avocado varieties.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 23, 2017, 10:51:57 PM
(*): I'm considering the 'Brogdon' avocado for my Miami-Dade area location. P.I.N. says that from Orlando, FL to New Orleans, LA, they produce ripe fruit from August to October. I would love to know what's its ripe fruit production period in Miami-Dade.

From what I've been able to gather, 'Brogdon' is not perfect, it's got a thin skin that clings to flesh when ripe. Yet, what I like most about it is its great qualities for making guacamole. I think I'm a bit jealous of the people that live between Orlando and New Orleans and have the 'Brogdon' avocado.

Florida W.A.V. Tree List for Avocado 24/7 in Florida
(From page 18 of this Thread)

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
3 March: 'Don-Carlitos' (per: CTMIAMI; alternate bearer?), 'Kampong'
4 April: 'Kampong'
5 May: 'Kampong'
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds' (per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July)
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,' 'Catalina'
8 August: 'Catalina,' 'Simmonds,' 'Miguel,' 'Brogdon(*)'
9 September: 'Catalina,' 'Bacon,' 'Miguel,' 'Brogdon(*)'
10 October: 'Hass,' 'Bacon,' 'Brogdon(*)'
11 November: 'Hass,' 'Oro-Negro'
12 December: 'Monroe,' 'Oro-Negro'
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 24, 2017, 01:23:52 AM
'Brogdon' avocado variety: It's just great for making guacamole. P.I.N. says it bears ripe fruit in August, September and October.

Zands: On May 11, 2013, TFF Member Zands, mentioned on this Thread that his 'Brogdon' and 'Lula' was in suspended animation. It would be great to know about how Zands' 'Brogdon' is doing after 4 years, especially the fruit quality & production specs and which month(s) of the year. Zands is in Zone 10b, Zip Code 33321. I am also in Zone 10b, with a different Zip Code 33143, because of the similar temperature Zones, perhaps 'Brogdon' will behave the same at both locations.

Zands has a great knack for avocado fruit trees, IMO. He's the only TFF Member on this Thread that has mentioned that he has a 'Brogdon.' So, this has been a full circle for me, now I'm trying to follow in Zands footsteps and I may just end up getting the 'Brogdon' avocado too. But, it would be great if I could find out first, about the 'Brogdon' fruit quality & production behavior in the Miami-Dade area.

Zands also mentioned that he has a 'Lula' in suspended animation. I also have a 'Lula.' After it was replanted to full sun, it was also in suspended animation for about 1 year, but now it looks like it has taken off for the moon in vertical growth. I can't wait to taste 'Lula' avocado.

Carlos is the best with avocados, as everybody knows. He's mentioned previously that he obtained the 'Oro-Negro' avocado, and I always wondered why. Well, this has been a full circle for me also, as I've also recently obtained and planted an 'Oro-Negro.' According to P.I.N., this variety bears ripe fruit November to December. It has a reputation of being a great tasting avocado.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 24, 2017, 09:00:09 AM
I have a neighbor who has planted Brogdon so I'll definitely keep an eye on it.  Also, another neighbor planted Thomson Red (enormous Jamaican avocado) so I'll be watching that one, too.  In the future I anticipate a lot of fruit trading (and you can expect a full report of what ripens when).
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: skhan on May 24, 2017, 12:03:50 PM
I usually buy ripe brogdons from Bender's Grove during the summer. Maybe starting in July.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on May 28, 2017, 11:06:26 PM
Went yesterday to Excalibur Nursery planning on getting the 'Brogdon.' I needed a fruit that had a ripening season of October - November.

The taste of the 'Brogdon' is legendary (IMO), so I thought I had a real winner here. But, its skin sticks to the flesh, and so does the paper of the seed, making guacamole preparation very annoying.

So, I was left with two other choices: 'Super-Hass' and 'Wurtz. I was shown on a List that both have a fruit ripening season of October - November.

Because I've previously have had bad experiences with 'Hass' (Carlos personally told me the same thing), I decided to ditch the 'Super-Hass' and go with the 'Wurtz.' It just goes to show, life has unexpected twists and turns, I never previously saw myself buying a 'Wurtz.'

If I remember correctly from previous research, the 'Wurtz' is a small - medium sized tree with quality fruit. I also remember that there was a specific issue or two with this variety, I hope it's nothing severe, I'm really looking forward to being totally satisfied with the 'Wurtz'.

I already planted the 'Wurtz' in the same location where the 'Hass' was (which was removed and destroyed with prejudice;)

P.S. I have nothing against the famous 'Hass,' except that it doesn't seem to do well in Florida. The 'Hass' has a reputation of being exceptional in California.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: johnb51 on May 29, 2017, 12:00:39 AM
Hass IS exceptional in California (and in many places other than Florida--the industry is built upon it and its descendants)! :D  I hope Wurtz works out for you (and for me, too).  It's growing like crazy in my yard. :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 29, 2017, 07:59:46 AM
(*): I'm considering the 'Brogdon' avocado for my Miami-Dade area location. P.I.N. says that from Orlando, FL to New Orleans, LA, they produce ripe fruit from August to October. I would love to know what's its ripe fruit production period in Miami-Dade.

I hated the Brogdon, but I'm picky when it comes to not only taste but characteristics of the tree and fruit.  Skin is super thin making it a big mess to peel (you can't spoon it out), big seed, fair tasting fruit, small fruit and the seed paper sticks to the seed cavity meat.  Cut it back to its Waldin rootstock and now have a beautiful Frankencado holding fruit from last year's grafting - Holiday, Sir Prize, Pinkerton and Ardith.

Same with the "Tex-Mex" varieties like Fantastic, Wilma/Brazos Belle, Joey.   Use them as rootstock.  They suck.

Didn't like Oro Negro for 3 years post planting but it's really hitting its stride now with nice creamy fruit.  (Can't compete with my Reed which is over the top).  Never is ready for me until late winter.  Here's a few in March.  Tree is loaded after a heavy blossom set this March.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/i22dx59cr/ONMarch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i22dx59cr/)

Day's not bad and a good choice for those in cold areas of Florida.  Likes the heat, does well in the steamy Rio Grande Valley area.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 03, 2017, 04:23:14 PM
I like the fact that Wurtz is a popular choice for us fruit enthusiasts, so we have that also going for us.

I'm really looking forward to enjoying this healthy fruit from these different, quality avocado varieties.

Hass IS exceptional in California (and in many places other than Florida--the industry is built upon it and its descendants)! :D  I hope Wurtz works out for you (and for me, too).  It's growing like crazy in my yard. :)
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 03, 2017, 05:01:13 PM
Thank you Mark, I'm now somewhat relieved after you've validated some of my avocado fruit tree variety choices - sighing with relief, thanks again.

P.S. I'll be looking into the varieties that have done well for you - Frankencado, Holiday, Sir-Prize, Pinkerton and Ardith, - to determine how well they do, and what their season is, in Florida.
 
(*): I'm considering the 'Brogdon' avocado for my Miami-Dade area location. P.I.N. says that from Orlando, FL to New Orleans, LA, they produce ripe fruit from August to October. I would love to know what's its ripe fruit production period in Miami-Dade.

I hated the Brogdon, but I'm picky when it comes to not only taste but characteristics of the tree and fruit.  Skin is super thin making it a big mess to peel (you can't spoon it out), big seed, fair tasting fruit, small fruit and the seed paper sticks to the seed cavity meat.  Cut it back to its Waldin rootstock and now have a beautiful Frankencado holding fruit from last year's grafting - Holiday, Sir Prize, Pinkerton and Ardith.

Same with the "Tex-Mex" varieties like Fantastic, Wilma/Brazos Belle, Joey.   Use them as rootstock.  They suck.

Didn't like Oro Negro for 3 years post planting but it's really hitting its stride now with nice creamy fruit.  (Can't compete with my Reed which is over the top).  Never is ready for me until late winter.  Here's a few in March.  Tree is loaded after a heavy blossom set this March.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/i22dx59cr/ONMarch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i22dx59cr/)

Day's not bad and a good choice for those in cold areas of Florida.  Likes the heat, does well in the steamy Rio Grande Valley area.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: LEOOEL on June 03, 2017, 05:14:10 PM
This is how my 24/7 Avocado-List for Zone 10b looks like now (the ones in parenthesis are the ones that I'm hunting to get):

1 Janurary: 'Monroe'
2 February: 'Lula,' ('Kampong')
3 March: ('Kampong')
4 April: ('Kampong')
5 May: ('Kampong')
6 June: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds;' per CTMIAMI: Doni & Simmonds taste better in July
7 July: 'Doni,' 'Simmonds,'
8 August: 'Simmonds,'
9 September: 'Wurtz,'
10 October: 'Wurtz,'
11 November: 'Oro-Negro'
12 December: 'Monroe,' 'Oro-Negro.'

P.S. Planning to graft a 'Kampong' onto a 'Lula' rootstock, and then plant it out of sight somewhere in the backyard; as the fruit exterior is reported to be somewhat unsightly.
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Das Bhut on September 14, 2017, 12:04:20 AM
I have an Oro Negro for November and December and a Honey Kiss for July and August

What do you recommend for the rest of the year?
Title: Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
Post by: Mark in Texas on September 24, 2017, 10:11:13 AM
It's fascinating how different our seasons are across the country.  My Oro Negros are best in Feb. - March, same with Meyer lemons. 

(https://s26.postimg.cc/5wxoedbx1/ONFruit_March_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5wxoedbx1/)

Hell, just harvested my last Lemon Zest and here we are going on Oct.

(https://s26.postimg.cc/ir1nk1h1x/Lemon_Zest_Fruit_Sept22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/ir1nk1h1x/)