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Messages - kumin

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1
I've just completed 440 of these grafts. Percentage of successful takes might be off a bit due to hot weather. Hot, humid weather is preferable to hot dry weather in this instance.

The rootstock is of smaller caliper than ideal, which slowed down the process.

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: TaiTri vs 5* deciduousness and hardiness
« on: July 07, 2020, 06:54:29 AM »
This is a recent 5* citrumelo bud and graft on Poncirus rootstock. The upper graft is a bark flap graft, the lower one is an inverted T-Bud. Both are growing well in the present hot weather. Both photos are of the same plant.

Shortly after bud-break.



The most recent photo.

3
In many bush type plants water sprouts are a natural means of generating new, vigorous replacement growth. Blueberries and roses come to mind.

The vigorous stem on the right is the straightest, most upright of all the growth. Personally, I would allow it to mature another year or so, then remove all growth to the left of it. This should result in a nice straight, upright tree mature enough to begin fruiting. This stem is positioned to improve the tree branch scaffolding.

4
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Dead bearss lime tree
« on: May 31, 2020, 05:55:27 PM »
The scion appears totally dead, while the roots don't. I'm curious what causes this condition. I may not be correct, but would expect a disease attacking the root system first, to kill the root system outright.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 30, 2020, 07:47:28 PM »
Growth habits of several Poncirus/Poncirus hybrid seedlings:

Conestoga 010: deciduous, hardy plant, small  leaves.



Conestoga 011: deciduous, very hardy plant, strong, open branches. Twin thorns frequent, small-medium leaves with wavy edges.


These two looks almost like pure poncirus to me, the leaf in the middle is shorter than usual F1 hybrid with trifoliate, the same cold hardiness as poncirus is another sign, that these are much more close to poncirus than orange...
Conestoga 011 reminds me one of my Tetraploid poncirus, shorter  petiole, wider leaves with wavy edges are one of the sign of tetraploid.

a| Tetraploid poncirus, b| regular diploid poncirus



Jibro, I took a few minutes to examine Conestoga 011 in some detail and must agree that the petiole is shorter than the other plants. It appears to be only +/-  30% of the length of Poncirus petioles. I'm not certain this is a positive for my purposes, although if it's truly a tetraploid, I suppose triploids could be created at will. I will need to research how to get the ploidy tested at some point.

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: May 29, 2020, 07:11:22 AM »
Getting fruit to ripen is an additional hurdle to clear toward the goal developing edible cold-hardy Citrus. Developing acid cultivars should be considerably easier than sweet ones. In northern regions Summers are often either too cool, or too short to accumulate adequate sugars.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 26, 2020, 04:34:33 PM »
Yes mikkel, many, but not all of our weeds have European origins. The early settler's plants didn't arrive with phytosanitary certificates.

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 26, 2020, 02:17:40 PM »
 Two additional monofoliate plants.

Conestoga 064 rather large leafed, sparsely branched. There's an occasional bifoliate, or trifoliata leaf.


A different plant having slender, dense branches and small leaves. This plant was initially trifoliate.


9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 19, 2020, 11:53:54 AM »
Yes, I'm semi-retired and this is my only real interest. I've done many grafts and buddings since I was a teenager. So I'm actually looking forward to this. Some people gamble, some travel, some follow sports, I immerse myself in horticulture.

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 19, 2020, 05:43:05 AM »
Around 500 seedlings to be grafted?

Actually more than 800 (rootstocks, not scions). There will be multiples of the more promising scions.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 18, 2020, 01:23:35 PM »
Jibro, since the F2 generation is genetically still quite close to the original parents, it stands to reason that the progeny most closely resembling either parent, will likewise have hardiness and fruiting characteristics similar to that particular parent. An honest assessment would likely conclude, that the most likely use and value of these plants is as parents, on the way to further refined and improved selections.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 17, 2020, 03:52:10 PM »
Mikkel, I don't have a count, I will probably wait until all of them leaf out. There may be some that will fail to do so. I think there should be a minimum of 100. In about 2 weeks I should have a better idea of the numbers. It is quite possible that many of them will fail in a severe winter in this area. That's the reason a test in zone 7b is being planned.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 17, 2020, 12:33:13 PM »
There are more than 800 ready this summer and next summer. I will have a bit of a challenge to get them all completed. I hope to do serious outdoor trials of all the clones I presently have. I have a nephew located 320 kilometers (200 miles) south of my location in zone 7b. He's agreed to trial some of my grafted clones at his location.

 In addition, there are several hundred original seedlings that were neglected, but survived in the original field trial beds. These had little to no damage during the past mild winter. I've weeded these beds and will give these plants an additional winter trial to test their hardiness. Some of these are starting growth in the last few days, about 10-14 days later than Poncirus. They are a mixture of evergreen and deciduous plants. Finding these plants, some of which had no dieback was a pleasant surprise. The low temperature during the winter was +10 deg. F (-12.2 C).








14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: May 17, 2020, 07:17:04 AM »
 https://www.as-garten.de/ueberwinterungszelt-igloo



Of course, if you have some technical skills, you can reproduce this solution in these or other dimensions.

The geometrics of this protective enclosure are well designed. By narrowing the top exposure, wind and night sky radiant cooling are reduced. By maximizing ground exposure, warmth radiating from the soil is captured at an increased rate.

So for me, it appears to be based on sound theory. Actual field conditions may confirm, or refute the concept.

As I look at the photo in greater detail, I see there's a floor on the bottom. This would block the warmth from the soil. I believe this may not be as practical as I originally thought.

The design may be eye catching for marketing purposes. A bit like designing fishing lures to catch the eye of the angling customer more than the actual fish.


15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 17, 2020, 06:36:09 AM »
400 of 800 Poncirus seedlings to be budded/grafted as soon as the caliper increases a bit. At this stem diameter any budding/grafting would take very steady hands and very good vision! Fortunately I'm near sighted, removing my glasses will put these right in my focal range.

The bark may be a bit too fragile to allow much manipulation, however. The buds/scions would also need to be of a similar tiny diameter.


16
"Bark slipping" is the part of the growth cycle when the bark and underlying wood are saturated with sap. At this point cutting into the bark and gently pushing sideways will cause the bark to come free from the wood. It is at this point that budding and bark grafting become possible.

A safe spot can be tested to minimize damage in the event that the bark won't slip properly

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:33:42 PM »
Growth habits of several Poncirus/Poncirus hybrid seedlings:

Poncirus +: nothing remarkable noticed in plant habit


5* Citrumelo: densely branched, strong tendency toward being  evergreen,  stocky plant, sturdy trunk develops early, height shorter for age





TaiTri: slender wispy branches, tendency for branches to droop over. vigorous, but not stocky






Conestoga plant awaiting a number, dense branching, a bit like TaiTri in growth habit



Conestoga 006 



Conestoga 058: monofoliate plant, the most Citrus-like in appearance, a bit less hardy, a few bifoliate leaves, slugs favor this clone. Very strongly evergreen.


Original 058 plant, good vigorous growth, upright growth habit.


Conestoga 010: deciduous, hardy plant, small  leaves.



Conestoga 011: deciduous, very hardy plant, strong, open branches. Twin thorns frequent, small-medium leaves with wavy edges.



18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 11, 2020, 05:25:20 PM »
Yes, they're in active growth as are many other trees. Peaches appear to be a total loss for the year. Strawberries at an 80% loss with two more nights of low temperatures, tonight and tomorrow night.

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 11, 2020, 01:11:57 PM »
The month of May is proving to be payback for the winter we escaped. Southeastern Pennsylvania hasn't been spared in the present Arctic cold wave. Saturday had light snow flurries during the afternoon.

I don't usually make much distinction between frosts and freezes. Subfreezing winds, however, can't be ignored. There was ice in unprotected shallow water and even a crust of frozen soil in freshly disturbed, exposed surfaces.

There is more Spring cold damage on Poncirus, than I have ever seen previously. The outdoor Conestoga # 011 damage paralelled that of Poncirus, but was not more severe.




20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: how to prune
« on: May 07, 2020, 06:23:07 PM »
Millet, I like your concept: every canopy space needs a branch, every branch needs it's own canopy space. It's a good part of pruning concept, another is to train and maintain good limb structural framework. Once understood, many of these horticultural concepts are quite simple.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 04, 2020, 03:45:39 AM »
Excellent point, Ilya. I'm probably overthinking this. The idea of cold testing seedlings at an early stage would certainly screen out excessive numbers of tender seedlings. I was thinking of testing chambers for large seedlings, which seems impractical in my situation.

However, pre-screening small seedlings would be a quick, contained process. A freezer with a thermostat and timer sounds easily doable. (The timer would be for me, so I don't get distracted)!

Most years we will have opposite challenges, in your case, eliminating marginal plants. In my case, not having the exposure so severe as to eliminate all seedlings.


22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 03, 2020, 08:49:41 PM »
I see cold damage as incremental. Best case: no discernable damage. Worst case: total failure as you indicated. Between the two extremes there should be a gradient from hardy to non-hardy. Poncirus at my location falls into such a gradient. Once past the first year seedling stage, almost never totally killed, usually unharmed, but occasionally damaged with subsequent regrowth and recovery. I would expect the hardiest selections to follow a similar, but lower scale.

In regards to testing, I would rely on natural, empirical conditions rather than relying on artificially produced testing. Firstly, I don't have such facilities, secondly, cold damage occurrs on a number of fronts, ranging from late Autumn freezes to absolute low temperature in midwinter, to duration of various levels of damaging cold, continuing to late dehydration caused by sun and wind during periods of frozen soil. Finally, Spring freezes can injure tender, new growth.


All of these conditions may be reproducible, but not within my capability. I suggest that selecting an exact point on the thermometer for making or breaking the test for hardiness doesn't weigh in on  the large number of variables.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 03, 2020, 06:09:25 PM »
This clone is not the hardiest of the original survivors, but fairly close. During limited winter testing it compared favorably with TaiTri, perhaps a bit hardier. More extensive testing should help determine it's true hardiness.

#058 is likely the plant in the back, with #067 being the plant in the front.


#058 is one of these two monofoliate specimens. This photo was taken before numbers were assigned to the survivors. There is a short length of original seedling stem, but less than the several hardier selections.


24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: May 03, 2020, 06:33:51 AM »
The monofoliate Conestoga #058 appears to appeal to both aphids and especially slugs. There seems to be a preference for this clone over the others. The leaf scent is more pleasant on this plant also. Hopefully this may be an indication of fruit flavors?
Small Conestoga 058 graftlings, one with signs of leaf feeding damage.




25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Spaneet citrange?
« on: May 01, 2020, 08:17:15 PM »
Is anyone familiar with Spaneet citrange? The descriptions given are:
1. Deep orange rind color
2. Nearly seedless
3. Very juicy
4. Furrowed at pistol end
5. Size small - similar to Rusk
6. Very vigorous and productive
7. Cold hardy
Sounds very interesting, especially in regards to color, juiciness, vigor and productivity.
French translations tend to use the word "rustique" (rustic) to convey "hardiness".

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