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Messages - kumin

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Cold Hardy Citrus / TaiTri vs 5* deciduousness and hardiness
« on: December 13, 2019, 03:47:19 PM »
Is anyone familiar with both TiaTri citrandarin and 5* citrumelo in respect to their winter hardiness? The first indications I see are that TaiTri shows a bit of deciduousness while I see none in the 5* at this point.  Some of my segentrages show appreciable deciduous behavior, others don't. TaiTri also made less late growth. Which has shown better cold resistance?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Help needed
« on: December 02, 2019, 10:45:32 AM »
Placing the insect on a black background might provide better contrast. A macro setting should be helpful, if possible.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
« on: November 30, 2019, 03:46:30 PM »
It certainly appears that the true identity and description of Sacaton (and Yuma?) is not resolved, at least in the literature. A large scale cold hardy F2 seedling segregation test with 100% nucellar seeds would be disastrous! This reminds me a bit of the Carrizo/Troyer citrange question. Are the 2 the same clone, or 2 very similar cultivars?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sacaton Citrumelo F2 seedlings
« on: November 30, 2019, 12:24:38 PM »
Such a high percentage of monofoliates indeed suggests the pollen parent (s) was/were monofoliates. Best of luck with your hybrids.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 27, 2019, 04:09:56 AM »
Usirius, I agree with your concern for overheating with heat lamps. I previously had a small duck hatchery and used heat lamps to brood newly hatched ducklings. The proximity to the bulbs was critical and I discontinued their use due to the fire hazard. They can have a desiccating, even a roasting effect, if not used very carefully.

 If alive, it's dormant and would need to be forced in order to grow. Pruning back top growth should do the trick.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 26, 2019, 05:29:18 AM »
In a very small enclosure as pictured, a very powerful heat source can overheat plants before the thermostat may react. This should not be a concern in an appropriately matched heater and enclosure. My concern was that the original poster may have an enclosure not much larger than the tree, in which case the tree could be vulnerable to scorching. In a larger enclosure this is much less of a concern.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 25, 2019, 05:41:46 PM »
1500 Watts is likely serious overkill for a small enclosure. The wattage should not be higher than the equivalent wattage of a correctly sized lightbulb.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 25, 2019, 03:30:01 PM »
The Farm Innovators Thermo Cube is a temperature controlled electrical outlet adapter.
This is model TC-3 available at Tractor Supply, as long as the amperage is not exceeded it should be fine.
    It operates with any 15 amp 120 volt electric heater or fan. Less than 15 amp heating device will not be a problem.
    It plugs directly into any standard outlet.
    It is thermostatically controlled and turns the power on and off automatically, according to the outside ambient air temperature.
    It converts a single outlet into a convenient double receptacles.
    It saves money by using power only when temperature requires.

One requirement is that the Thermo Cube is at the same temperature exposure as the plants. Within the enclosure is probably best so it can monitor the plant"s environment.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 25, 2019, 12:54:59 PM »
A number of seedlings and grafted specimens as they show leaves preparing to abscise for winter.

A seedling of either Meyer lemon, or Moro blood orange showing good tolerance to this point. No expectations of winter survival.

Ichangquat 6-7-2 seedling showing shoot damage - not deciduous (not expected to be).

TaiTri seedling not showing much damage, partially deciduous at this point.

5* Citrumelo showing minor tip damage, not deciduous at this point.

Segentrange # 58 monofoliate, not deciduous, showing a bit of tip damage (off photo). Original plant (in soil).

Segentrange #21 deciduous, showing little damage. On Poncirus rootstock.

Segentrange #001 deciduous (not last year), no damage. On Poncirus rootstock.

Segentrange # 010 deciduous, no damage. On Poncirus rootstock.

Segentrange # 011 deciduous, no damage, possibly
the hardiest specimen. On Poncirus rootstock.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 25, 2019, 12:15:40 PM »
The seeds were planted April 12 2018. They were germinated in a heated bed. Subsequently the seedlings were field transplanted in early June of 2018. They were 9- 10 months old at the time of maximum exposure to the winter low temperatures.
Some of these plants were grafted onto Poncirus rootstock during the summer, which resulted in some larger plants, but some of the original plants have good size. The soil planted trees are the originals, the potted plants are potted Poncirus rootstock, or F2 back-up Segentranges grafted on Poncirus rootstock.
To answer your question more directly, these plants will be 2 years old in April, 2020.

Swingle citrumelo has 5-10% zygotic seedlings vs 15% for C-35 citrange. Ilya's seeds may have higher percentages and better cold hardy genetics.

Here is a Spanish vendor of C-35 citrange and Swingle citrumelo in commercial quantities. Agrologica Servicios  Agricolas SL in Spain. Citrus rootstock seeds in Spanish is "semillas portainjertos citricos".

Mikkel, have you looked into ordering seeds internationally? Shipping costs would be higher and certification documents would be an additional cost. EU restrictions might make it impossible, though.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 24, 2019, 06:58:15 PM »
will2358, I believe my preference would be thermostatic control rather than time control, simply because temperature excesses would have the lamp turn off regardless of time of day, to avoid overheating damage. Likewise very cold temperatures during daytime would turn the lamp on regardless of time of day.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Treatment for HLB
« on: November 24, 2019, 01:50:41 PM »
Florida Citrus grower reports having reversed the effects of HLB by improving soil health utilizing cover crops.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus harvest - recovery, grafts, harvests
« on: November 24, 2019, 11:57:05 AM »
True lemon connoisseurs appear to be unimpressed by Meyer lemons. To a Poncirus grower, they are quite delectable! It's a matter of perspective, I suppose.

Nice plants after your catastrophe.

Here a few citrange and citrumelo zygotic seedling percentages.

Citrus Genetics, Breeding and Biotechnology
edited by Iqrar A. Khan

 Page 144, Table 5.1 gives a list of rootstock zygotic percentages including citrumelos and citranges. A search for book preview gave a number of percentages.

Off the top of my head from other sources: C-35 citrange 15% zygotic, Benton citrange  0 % zygotic, Carrizo/Troyer citrange +/- 1% zygotic, C-32 citrange +/- 10% zygotic. Sanford,Yuma, and Phelps citranges have high percentages of zygotic seedlings. Sacaton citrumelo has fairly high percentages also.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:32:34 PM »
Nice looking fruit. After they're ripe, new photos would be welcome 😁.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Root stock question
« on: November 16, 2019, 04:51:23 PM »
New growth, taken from the base of the tree next spring , allowed to become semi-hard, has potential to root . The basic rule is the more tender the cutting, the easier to root, but also more likely to desiccate. Desiccated cuttings quickly lose the ability to root. So it's a bit of a balancing act between too hardened and lowered rooting ability, and too tender and susceptible to desiccation. Timing is extremely important when rooting cuttings. Senescence of the parent plant is also very important, which can be partially overcome by taking cuttings from recent growth close to the bottom of the plant.

These rules are less important with easy to root species and critical on hard to root species.   

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 15, 2019, 02:00:15 PM »
Ilya, early dropping of leaves is a good indicator of winter preparedness. My area had warm weather until recently leaving some plants unprepared. The hardiest plants from last winter appear to again be the best prepared at this point.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 15, 2019, 12:16:13 PM »
In preparation for winter, the open ground planted trees, as well as the potted trees have been enclosed in a cold frame shelter. This may not be needed in an average winter, but it provides a means for emergency protection if a 50 year Arctic cold event should occur. The very lowest temperature seen in this area in my lifetime was -24 deg F (-31.1 C) in January 1994. Such a temperature would wipe out all the pots and destroy all the other plants, at least to ground level.

This structure was hastily constructed as  we experienced a low temperature of 18 degrees (-7.77 C) earlier this week. The original plan was to cover in early December, but plans were changed due to weather forecasts. The plants easily coped with the 18 degrees. The plan is to protect the stems in order to  get flowering and fruiting in a few years.

There are no intentions of heating the structure, but in the event of temperatures lower than -10 deg F.(-23.3 C) it would be an option.

Ripe Poncirus fruits have a pleasant scent that is concentrated when confined within a room. I have not experienced any floral aroma to this point, perhaps there's clonal variation? One of my hopes is that the F2 citrange hybrids I'm growing will have a pleasant floral scent. Some of the citrandarins I grew in the past did have floral scents.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Hormone
« on: November 11, 2019, 07:14:48 PM »
A number of years ago I did woody ornamental rooting in a heated sand bed within a shadehouse. My favorite rooting formula was a liquid that was used a full strength for hard to root cuttings and diluted for easier to root cuttings. The brand is Dip 'N Grow Liquid Rooting Hormone. By storing the liquid concentrate in a freezer, it kept it's potency for years. Once diluted, the solution was used and left over solution was discarded.

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