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Messages - shiro

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Growing cherimoya in France
« on: June 28, 2019, 12:52:11 PM »
Benoit I send you a pm (private message).
However this is not necessarily the verticillium.

For the avocado it's probably the heat of the last time (45 to 50C in La Rochelle) mine also took a little hot shot.
With the heat I have an annona cherimola which is always well in a greenhouse where the temperature rises to 60C.

But with the pictures I lean more for a hot shot.
Besides I just took a look at your blog here ( I must confess that my experience has given me different results .

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jarilla chocola
« on: June 09, 2019, 05:33:42 PM »
Question may be stupid, but has anyone tried to graft papaya on it?

Because it's from the same family and I think
1) this may be the opportunity to make papaya bloom faster and thus to have fruit fairly quickly in the first year.
2) the ability to keep the roots cool like potatoes in colder climates.

What do you think ?

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: How to make potting soil more acidic
« on: June 06, 2019, 05:53:01 PM »
If the plants are in pots then repoted seems easier to me, if the plants are in the ground there it is more complicated.
In any case it is important to check the PH of the water if you use that of the city, the rain water is generally neutral or acid so it is the best.

If your soil to a limestone nature the repotting is really important.
If it is a potting soil then the problem come may be rather water .

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Polka Dot Cherry?
« on: May 29, 2019, 09:00:12 PM »
cultivar color no that's impossible.
The Lapin cherry is red and not of this color.
When a few chemicals I doubt it too but why not.
The mutation is possible but I have never seen it like this, I saw cherries stark gold ( color yellow ) take on some cherry the color of the Cherry Napoleon ( color red and yellow ) when stark gold is grafted on Napoleon.
But I've never seen this, except due to hail (but there are traces of impact if that's the case).
However even hail (unless it is very strong to destroy the fruit) does change the color to maturity

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Polka Dot Cherry?
« on: May 29, 2019, 06:07:07 PM »
My apologies.
But hard to judge on a photo of the year or there was hail.
The coloring areas are the areas where there seems to have been a shock or not ?
Otherwise I don't see what could have produced this. Especially if your other cherry tree doesn't behave the same way.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: American persimmon
« on: May 28, 2019, 05:57:45 PM »
The Kaki, also called persimmon is a tree native to Asia (China, Japan,...) up to 6 m high. It is very rustic since it can withstand extreme temperatures from-15 to-20 c.

We distinguish several groups of Kakis.
they exist 3 kind of Asian persimmons.

1) Astringents asian persimmons often compatible with Lotus and virginiana while others may have compatibility problems with Lotus.
PCA (pollination constant astringent): the fruits are astringent i.e. they must be consumed some time after harvesting when they become overripe (soft)

2) Non-astringent Asian persimmons often incompatible with Lotus but compatible with virginiana.
-PCNA (constant pollination non-astringent): non-astringents are consumable directly after harvesting. These varieties are often called "Apple kaki" given their firmness.

3) 1 group whose fruit consumption depends on pollination: PVNA (pollen variant non-astringent), these fruits contain a large number of seeds that following fertilization will be astringent or non-astringent.

At us it is often the Lotus that is chosen as rootstock because it does not make root sprouts.
However, virginiana is more tolerant of the various climatic conditions.

So after this is a matter of taste.
But there is always the possibility to graft some branches with Asian persimmons and keep the rest in virginiana.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Polka Dot Cherry?
« on: May 28, 2019, 05:22:42 PM »
Look no further.
The problem comes from hail, I have the same thing on plums, cherries and even apples this year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How to lower soil Ph long term?
« on: May 11, 2019, 01:18:28 PM »
It is simple and there are not many solutions.

Dig the soil in depth and installed a geotextile and then added organic matter.
By taking the method hugelkultur to fill.

Another possibility, but longer: planting pines and eucalyptus but it will take a few years before the PH has reached the desired values in depth.

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Ziziphus jujuba in Europe
« on: May 09, 2019, 01:37:08 PM »
For Sune and the others.

For Europeans or others who want to Exchange or make requests for scions, you can go to the website.

To change the language go down on the indication of the language in blue ( FR - Franais )
Free registration, only obligation to have knowledge in grafting, and a minimum of cultivars (3 or 5 are sufficient) to Exchange.

To see the sections, go to ( budwood exchange )
link :

and choose the section you want as Ziziphus Jujuba

The problem is that according to the diameter of the budstick the buds can be bigger than the diameter of the rootstock.

Okay, so you want to make chip budding?
In this case in fact it may be complicated.

Sorry bad habit

PG = Porte greffe = Rootstock.

Possible Yes but using 2 PG.
Same technique as Crown or double slit but doing it with PG.

Here the pictures of the classical grafts you must use the same technique but conversely.

1) couronne ( crown )

2) fente double ( double slit )

excuse me if I made a mistake with the English names of graft techniques.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passe Crassane pear
« on: April 22, 2019, 07:50:13 AM »
In France all specialists and also INRA declares the passe crassane as a PEAR.
It is not in any case a hybrid pear and Quince.
All the books of the time speaks of PEAR no hybrid.
so I think in the French books this would have been said by Mr Boisbunel.
And the INRA confirmed to me that it is simply a PEAR.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Passe Crassane pear
« on: April 17, 2019, 09:19:42 PM »
It is believed Passe Crassane is a pear-quince hybrid, but not known for sure. However, there are a number of things that point to that direction. Very dwarfed growing habit, parthenocarpic fruits, very good compatibility on quince (which the great majority of pear cultivars do not have, with the notable exception of Comice). Not to mention the very firm and hard fruits, notorious susceptibility to fireblight of this variety, several other things as well.

"...the pass-crassane, is actually a pear-quince hybrid that was developed in Normandy. It is particularly useful in cooking because of its firm, grainy flesh, but it is also tasty eaten raw." (The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth: The Surprising, Unbiased Truth about What You Should Eat and Why, by Jonny Bowden, p144 )

No socal2warm.

There is a lot of PEAR compatible with Quince.
ex ( French variety ):
Olivier de serre
duc de bordeaux
beurr bollwiller
citron des carmes
royal Vende
bergamote esperen
etc etc etc...
So there are many more in addition to comice .

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« on: April 04, 2019, 08:35:59 AM »
i understand now the temperatures Karenrei 16 oct 2018 wrote,  -5c for asimina triloba, +8c for A. stenophylla, and +10C for annona cherimola, are not the cold limit, but average of winter temperatures in their natural areas of repartition; average doesn't mean cold records, or temperature that makes loose leafes, or branches;
this cold limit is around -20 or -25C for asimina triloba, and between -5 and -10c for cherimolas;

in my place, one night per winter is -4 or -8c, but it usually never frost in the day, but in 2012 it was one hour -16c one night; one little plant that grows every spring from the roots is interesting to survive such exceptionnal records; so yes, i will be very interested to try A. stenophylla :)

Beware as I said the temperate zone has a lot of temperature Variant.
9B is a climate temperate also, a region with-3 c or-5 c is also an area with temperate climate.
And as the member linsecte says cherimola Annona can endure-3 c and even-5 c see more if it is not regular.
But can easily withstand regular freezing around 0 c and-3 c without problem, if there is a warming of the temperatures in the day.

I myself have Annona cherimola who resist a winter in pots and endure several days of snow.
And regular gels with temperature between 0 c and briefly at-5 c at night but the temperatures were generally positive the day.

So yes Annona cherimola can be cultivated in temperate climate. But this is not to say that in a temperate region with lower regular temperature this will succeed.

As the linsect Member also says, we should not confuse:
cold limit with average cold.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Annonaceae that are temperate
« on: April 02, 2019, 01:47:45 PM »
Yes just like other tropical fruit trees.
Dimocarpus longan (-3 c to-5 c)
Persea americana (-5 c,-7 c to-9 c)
ETC etc just do some research to find them.

The problem is that the temperate regions are diverse and with temperature variations that make this classification (tropical tree and temperate tree) not accurate enough to be really useful.
Usually a tree classify tropical and plant in tropical region rarely poses problems when at its rusticity.
But for a temperate tree, if you only have this detail you can't be certain of the real rusticity of the tree.
Therefore it is necessary to test and observe the rusticity of each species in different situation.
wet temperate
warm temperate etc etc

Generally the temperate climate includes
Oceanic climate
Mediterranean climate
Humid subtropical climate
This gives with the various differences of each zone, large differences of rusticity and possibility of culture that can be adapted.

So yes Annona is valid for temperate climates like other tropical fruit trees.
also for me it is better to talk about rusticity for a species (temperate climate) because this is more accurate.
Or be more specific about the temperate zone in question.
Specifying whether it is for the oceanic climate, Mediterranean climate or other .
Or even specifying the USDA hardiness zone

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Fig hedge
« on: March 23, 2019, 05:34:27 PM »
You could also try a mixed hedge with Arbutus unedo and morus (nigra or Alba) in espalier,
with the branches criss-crossed (Belgian fence for example ) or free hedge .
Or Arbutus unedo with PEAR or Apple tree or Saskatoon etc.
A mixed hedge can give a very nice effect in spring as in winter.

You little replace the Arbutus by feijoa or other.

Strong rootstock will assure a rapid growth, resulting eventually in a quicker maturation.

So that's not certain Ilya.

A pear scion grafting on pear seedling takes longer than the same pear tree on quince tree.
To have fruit faster it is well known that it is necessary to use PG dwarfing is coming from cuttings.

Also you leave a seedling and you want to make fruit faster.
1) So I would use an adult tree to graft my scions ( because mature ) .
2) Or mature Poncirus cuttings.
If you use a vigorous PG from seedling I think you'll wait a long time and it's pretty normal because the Scion is not mature and the PG also is not old enough to give fruit.

So use to make fruit faster
Poncirus cuttings or other citrus
especially flying dragon cuttings.

However it will not be vigorous according to the choice of citrus.
The best is a vigorous citrus cutting ( no seedling ) if you want it to grow fast is giving fruit fast

However do not forget the cultivation method using the branch in ( arcure )

Bending a branch too vigorous, the movement of the SAP is slowed down, and it is forced to give fruit earlier and to take less strongly into sterile shoots. This operation is applicable to all fruit trees.

Do you ask for seeds too Mangifera08 ?
The research centers often accept the sending of seeds more easily than scions.

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Ziziphus jujuba in Europe
« on: March 17, 2019, 10:05:12 AM »
I sent you a MP.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Strawberry Tree- Arbutus unedo
« on: March 11, 2019, 07:09:46 PM »
It is a very nice tree but the fruit is better in jam or mix with other fruit in juice or smoothie.
It is difficult to eat several raw.
In jams with pears I think it gives a little taste of mango.
This tree should be able to survive at home, but you will need to improve the soil by making mulch or other.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Rare Sunkist Navel Orange Seeds
« on: March 11, 2019, 06:36:42 PM »
View the price of seeds I wonder at what price you do the scion?
Serious is reasonable, even the horticultural Society (INRA) does not sell at this price their seeds.

If it is an old abandoned orchard the best is to offer scions with a normal price.
You will have more luck
1) to have requests.
2) to save and transmit the citrus varieties or the orange variety of this orchard.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Variegated Poncirus
« on: March 10, 2019, 10:30:26 AM »
So there are four possibilities.
1) He is too fragile from the beginning and dies quickly.
2) It is a little stronger is survival with disease without beating it, and is more fragile than another.
3) He can beat the disease and therefore should no longer have a symptom of this disease.
4) This is a real chimera.

A few questions.

1) If it is a real chimera in this case I am curious to know what is the chimeric factor producing this effect ?
2) What happens if grafting on another resistant subject ?
3) What happens if a resistant subject is grafted on it ?

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