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Messages - joe_OC

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1
Generic names always cause confusion.  In Brazil, the same Plinia species can have many different names from region to region.

2
Do you have to clean the membrane around seed to germinate?


3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Overrated Tropical Fruits
« on: October 18, 2020, 10:54:04 PM »
I've never been one to get into something without trying it first.  After that, it's all about personal preferences...

4
I've heard the coronatas that make large fruit like 'Olho de boi' take a long time (15+ years) to make fruit.  The fruits pictured don't look like it's the large variety.

5
My order has cleared customs and is on it's way to me.   ;D

6
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Eugenia involucrata varieties
« on: October 10, 2020, 08:21:41 PM »
Thank you!  I will get one of each.

7
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Eugenia involucrata varieties
« on: October 10, 2020, 09:53:31 AM »
Does anyone have both E. involucrata sp. ‘Nelita’ and ‘Ben’s Beaut’?

They both seem to be the large fruiting varieties.  Want to know if there is a difference between the two.




Joe

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« on: October 08, 2020, 04:09:50 PM »
Agreed. “Revert “ was a poor choice of words.

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dark Surinam Cherry
« on: October 08, 2020, 12:43:45 AM »
if you graft a known cultivar you have 100% a clone of the parent tree.

There was a study done at UF and 75% of the seedlings had dark fruit 25% had red fruit
when seeds came from dark fruit
I have sold many Zill's seeds and haven't received feedback yet? I did grow a dasyblasta
from seed and the fruit is 100% as they describe dasyblasta

That's what Achetadomestica was saying with the University of Florida study.  Yes, when I use the word "revert" I meant the seed.  NOT a plant creating black fruit then red. 

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Dark Surinam Cherry
« on: October 07, 2020, 04:09:41 PM »
Hi,

I have a red Surinam Cherry and wanted to add a dark one.  My understanding is that I want a grafted plant to ensure that it will be dark because seedlings from the dark plants can revert to being red.  Can someone confirm this? 


Thanks in advance,



Joe

11
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Jaboticaba acu paulista
« on: September 28, 2020, 03:58:41 PM »
Just an FYI...SOLD OUT

12
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Jaboticaba acu paulista
« on: September 27, 2020, 09:35:54 AM »
PM sent

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticabaholics Anonymous
« on: September 26, 2020, 12:58:26 AM »
Found this reference site called "The Plant List".  It has all the Plinia species and synonyms.  If this has already been posted, my apology: 


http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-161353



14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« on: September 25, 2020, 05:25:50 PM »
Getting intrigued with mangos for Southern California.  Here is a video of mango trees in Phoenix, AZ for insperation.  Some are 40 ft tall/25 years old:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t57YGE1oMbg&ab_channel=ShamusO%27Leary

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Happy Autumn Equinox
« on: September 22, 2020, 11:55:28 AM »
Dreading shorter days and cooler temps.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 11:25:34 PM »
The name Beach cambuca completely dominates in the English speaking world because whoever the first person was went with that name and then everyone copied him. So there's the answer to your popularity contest. You will find the name Beach cabeludinha (Cabulinha da praia) somewhat used in Brazil (http://www.colecionandofrutas.com.br/myrciariastrigipes.htm) though it takes a back seat to cambuca da praia. Old habits die hard. It must date back to a time when really few Myrtles were known about.

I highly doubt that there are two cultivars of "Branca" jaboticaba. Someone must have shortened "Branca vinho". Ask Adhemar Gomes in Casa Branca (whoops there's another Branca). A mistake was likely made outside of Brazil. You are right to notice that P. aureana and P. phitrantha are considered the same species by official taxonomy.


I doubt it as well, but there are at least two plants being called by that name by growers. 

17
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 10:41:12 PM »
This forum is not a professional society.  I like binomials, and I have used binomials too much in the past. I often found that they are unwelcome, and result in less communication, when one is dealing with the general public, as is very much the case with half or more of the readership here.

Societies are NOT professional.  Just people who have passion for certain plants.  I don't find using binomials being elitist or snobby or anything like that at all. 

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 04:56:54 PM »
Yes but probably not species and try to find either in the wild.

That's not the point...It's great that growers are hybridizing and making new cultivars.  BUT with scientific naming and cultivar, everyone will know what exact plant they are talking about. 

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 04:43:30 PM »
Which cultivar names are used for two cultivars of different species in the same genus? Usually it's the same cultivar with disagreements on what species it is, e.g. Eugenia calycina 'Nelita' vs Eugenia involucrata 'Nelita', Dream Annona vs Dream Atemoya, Plinia jaboticaba 'Sabara' vs Plinia cauliflora 'Sabara'.

Plinia aureana and Plinai phitrantha both have plants using the name 'Branca'.  This is not a case where there is disagreement regarding species.  These are TWO completely different plants. 

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 03:18:05 PM »
It looks like the Forum Admins made it a requirement for scientific names in the "Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles" room, but not the other rooms.   

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 02:12:45 PM »
Joe_OC, you seem a little bit inexperienced to be suggesting something like this. We use a mix of both systems, it depends on what is in question. The first problem is that scientists reclassifying species is an ongoing process. Common names on the other hand are more stable. Secondly, a lot of things are unidentified. You would have a lot of different "Garcinia sp." and "Plinia sp." to disambiguate. Thirdly, as has been mentioned here, there are plenty of hybrids that don't always have a neat new binomial, especially when they can be F2 and F3 hybrids. I have asked botanists for the binomial of boysenberry and never gotten a consistent answer. Citrus and dragonfruit are quite messy, and you can't just use the genus name. Fourthly, there are a lot of repeated species names used in many genera. Take names like hispida, cuspidata, macrophylla, chinensis, indica, armeniaca. Saying the full binomial takes more syllables than is practical.

Think of it this way, you are never going to call a grape Vitis vinifera, or a peach Prunus persica. Once rarer things become a bit more established, the common name naturally takes over. Having two systems is more of a help than a hindrance in my view, both should be used in similar frequency.

Having said that, it is a problem that there can be too many common names that are synonyms - it's just something you have to deal with. Can you believe that there are still people who call carambola the "Five corner fruit"? At least star fruit has some imagination. My recent pet hate is hearing "Beach cambuca" for Myrciaria strigipes, when it should be Beach cabeludinha. Appropriating names for things that are not so closely related is dumb in my opinion. Indigenous names are becoming more popular, though they are often a mouthful and too repetitive as well. The best from each world will win out long term.

I may be new to tropical fruit trees, but not new to plants... ;)

I never said to NOT use cultivar/common names...But there are same cultivar names being used for completely DIFFERENT species, within the same genus.   :o

All the other plant forums that I belong to: Palms / Orchids / Bromeliads, etc...that I belong to use scientific names with cultivar names. 

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 21, 2020, 01:18:14 PM »
Difficult, yes, but should be done.  Reality is, outside of grafted plants, there is no guarantee that you are going to get the exact traits of the mother plant.  But knowing the species is a good starting point.  If that information is not known, then it would clearly be understood. 

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Plant Naming Convention Suggestion
« on: September 20, 2020, 01:48:31 PM »
I suggest people use the latin name for plants.  It removes a lot of confusion.  If we all can see the genus/species, it makes it a lot more straight-forward.  Trade names or 'Cultivars' can then be used to show differences within the same species.  I am trying to learn about Plinia and Myrciaria.  I am guilty of using the generic name of Jaboticaba as well. 

24
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 17, 2020, 03:44:25 PM »
Not a simple question because IMHO the variability in grumichama fruits is as high as the variability of cherry of the Rio Grande, Pitanga and Pitomba. A really good Variety is worth the space in the ground and is worth growing on its own merits. Jaboticaba is a little more uniform and reproducible with well established varieties including the newer precocious varieties having a predictable fruit flavor. Forced to choose I prefer Jaboticaba.

Yes, one of the reasons why I am asking IS because of that variability in both fruits.  So far, sounds like Jaboticaba is more consistent in flavor from different plants while there is more variability with Grumichama.  Interestingly, the circle of growers I know in person, they like Grumichama better.

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Grumichama vs Jaboticaba
« on: September 17, 2020, 10:58:36 AM »
No comparison in my book. We dug out our grumichama tree. The taste was somewhat insipid to me and the texture was somewhat 'off' as well. That, plus the fact that the entire tree essentially ripens within a 1-week period, it was just not worth it.

Our red jabo is delicious and essentially produces year-round.

You sound EXACTLY like what I have read from Adam from Fly Fox Fruits.  :)

I am not looking at Pros and Cons of each fruit.  Just the taste.  Because one can argue that Grumichama fruits faster (than most Jaboticabas) and they produce two abundant harvests a year.

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