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Messages - Jack, Nipomo

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ventura, CA largest Cherimoya tree
« on: March 30, 2018, 03:02:44 PM »
Honeyhart


Lots of early cherimoyas planted in Ventura (Brown Bros, for example) were Booth.  Graft lines disappear over time as does any labeling.  It is increasingly becoming more difficult to recognize and identify older fruiting trees and that could result in incorrect identification as these trees are propagated and reproduced under a different name.

2
With regard to grafting C. edulis on C. tetrameria or visa versa, there is no incompatibility.  I have 15 year old C. tetrameria grafted on C. edulis and the tree produces prolifically normal sized fruit.  The tree is about half the size of C. tetrameria on its own roots.  C. tetrameria is not a huge tree like C. edulis (about size of a peach tree).

However, grafting C. edulis on C. tetrameria (white sapote on yellow or wooly leaved sapote) leads to extreme dwarfing.  I have Pike and Vernon grafted on C. tetrameria rootstock and 15 year old trees are no bigger than 3 ft tall .  One is still in 5 gallon pot, other in the ground.  Both are same size.  Production is limited by size of tree, but normal sized fruit.  Each produces 3-5 fruits.

Crfg years ago did a taste test of the yellow sapote (wooly leaved sapote, C. tetrameria) and labeled two as worth propagation.  These were identified as #6 and #7.  Taste is different than C. edulis, color is yellowish inside, seeds are much smaller.  Indeed the underside of the leaves are very fuzzy (wooly), C. edulis is smooth, except Suebelle has a slight fuzz as possible indication of mixed heritage.

3
More info on Stewart:
Orig.in Mentone,San Bernardino County, CA,on the Stewart Ranch.Introd. in 1956; first propagated for trial at the CA Citrus Res.Center,Riverside, in 1952. Chance seedling possibly of Mexicola;Mex. type. Fruit:medium,6-10 oz; pyriform; skin green, but at maturity a rich dark purple, slightly rough, raised lenticels sparse near base but very numerous at apex,corkiness none to very slight, texture soft- leathery, excellent peeling quality; flesh clear, bright, light yellow shading to green toward skin; firm, but melting; excellent quality; ripens from early Oct. to mid-Dec.; oil content about 8% by first of Oct. to about 16% in mid-Nov. Tree: spreading; strong; vigorous; bears good crops. Commercial cultivar in south Africa. (B&O Register) 2 trees are growing at South Coast Research Station, Irvine, CA., field 44, row 10, trees 13&14. These bear well each year, quite fiberous some years, pretty flesh, tasty, small seed. Our observations show the flowers to be B type which does not agree with data from more expert people than we are. For more information see p.90 CAS Yearbook 1963. (J.R.Frink 1998) Origin, CA; Race, Mex.; Flower, A (Lahav & Gazit)

Here in CA my Stewart does not compare to a Hass (although it is quite good, pretty yellowish flesh).

4
Here in central coast of CA one tree (Pike/Vernon) has been dropping fruits for a month.  The fruits cover the ground and there are more to come.  The tree is a giant and has been in the ground for over 40 years.  Flowering is beginning on many of my other white sapote trees but they still hold fruit.

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Wurtz Avocado from Excalibur is Type AB?
« on: February 25, 2018, 03:09:13 PM »
Some more info...looks like it's an "A":

(Guat.) Regist.1940 Orig.1935 at place of Roy E. Wurtz, Encinitas, CA. Fruit; season, May-Sept.;color, green;weight, 8-10 oz.; shape, pyriform. (CAS Yearbook 1950) Orig. Encinitas, CA, by Roy Wurtz. Introd.1948. Chance seedling planted about 1935;selected about 1940. Fruit: Mex.-Guat. hybrid type; quality good; skin green, med.thick;long oval; size 7-10 oz.Tree:production fair to good; distinctive weeping growth habit, with dense cover of leaves & sm. limbs. (B&O Register) Easily available for the home garden through nurseries. Also called Littlecado or Minicado or Dwarf Hybrid depending on propagating nursery.(J.R. Frink 2000) Origin, CA; Race GxM; Flower group, A (Lahav & Gazit) (originated in 1935 at Encinitas, CA; cultivated in Queensland for only the past12 or13 yrs.);pear shaped,sm.-med.;8-12oz(226-240g); seed lg. Season:May-Sept. in CA;late in Queensland. Tree is small&slow-growing, bears moderately but regularly. More than 100 trees may be planted per acre (240 per ha). (J.Morton 1987)

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: sapote trees
« on: February 19, 2018, 09:44:08 AM »
Be certain to read the small print on HD fruit trees.  Labeling a white sapote tree "Vernon" when it is in fact a seedling will not get you the desired results.  HD sells "Cate" macadamia trees from Laverne that are labelled "Cate", but are seedlings of Cate and that fact is written in small print on the label.  You won't get "Cate" characteristics from a seedling if only one parent is Cate. 

Plant a white sapote seed and graft it over to the true variety you want from a reliable source.  White sapotes are easy to graft and you can have a tree with many varieties grafted on it.

8
Bottom paints for boats are available in almost countries.  The copper bottom paints eliminate algae and other marine growths. Lots of different versions and could be found in a ship store or other port facilities.

9
More info on Holiday (originally XX3):
(Guat) 18-28 oz. fruit, pear shaped, green, dark yellow flesh, excellent flavor, medium pit, peels easily, glossy leaves, persea mite and thrip resistant, small tree with skirting shape, A blossom type. Produces well. Fruit is hidden inside tree. Holds well. Tree should be made available to the home gardener for it has the best fruit for a small tree that I am familiar with &is better that any available at nurseries at this time. Several trees at South Coast Research Station, Irvine, CA. (J.R.Frink 1998)This is a "grandchild" of the old "Murrieta Green" variety, which had a green, good-quality fruit, commercially too large; on a tree that was short & spreading-easy to pick,& to spray if necessary. XX3 is a good producer of rather similar large, fine, green fruits. The tree is almost unique among thousands of seedlings in that it tends to sprawl on the ground. This latter trait rules it out commercially-plus the over-sized fruit. Commercially, XX3 is without value. But, for backyard purposes it might be useful in CA. An avocado tree that remains very low could be desirable where a view, or sunlight transmission, is wanted; or, it could be grown on a (sturdy) fence. The green skin would be no detriment, & the large fruit size could be a non-commercial advantage. (Bergh 2000)

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Feijoa flowering (greenhouse)
« on: February 01, 2018, 10:41:08 AM »
Fruit falls from the shrub (tree).  It is good on the ground for less than a week. There are selected varieties mu ch larger than a large hen's egg (Mammoth, Triumph among others)  Hardy to about 15 degrees F.  Ours have taken 19 degrees with no damage whatsoever.  Nothing bothers it, except birds eat the petals of the flower not inhibiting fruiting.

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: tejocote
« on: January 27, 2018, 03:43:23 PM »

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: tejocote
« on: January 26, 2018, 01:44:12 PM »
Tejocote punch is a traditional seasonal drink in Mexico.  I agree on the description of the fruit's flavor, but it is popularly utilized in other forms.  Google gives several uses for the fruit. 

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Most cold hardy Macadamia.-
« on: January 26, 2018, 01:40:56 PM »
Of course, the cold duration is what does the damage.  We may get well below freezing, but not all night long.  Here I use the "below 40 degrees F at 10 PM rule" to determine if there will be frost.  Even then, it may still be minimal.  Dry, cold air with rapidly dropping temperatures and a very low dew point means trouble.  Now, with mature trees I don't worry about it.

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: mammee americana
« on: January 21, 2018, 01:54:35 PM »
Glad to note that, Peter.  mammee americana really succumbs to cool winters in my greenhouse, but still have one in 15 gallons.  I do fruit the green sapote in the GH, so maybe this fruit might be possible.

15
Thanks for giving Orton Englehart credit in Honeyhart's name.  I agree that there are many different cherimoyas and a multigrafted tree is the way to go.  Cherimoya grafts so easily that you could pick up any cherimoya and graft it with different varieties as it grows.  Lots of scionwood out there.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Sapote size control?
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:18:01 PM »
Actually they are probably more than 20 years old.  The 3 1/2 ft plant in the ground produces 6-7 normal sized fruit.  The one in the pot produces 4-5.  My yellow sapotes (c. tetrameria on C. edulis roots) produce 40-50 fruits on a 7 X 7 ft tree.  Now the Vernon/Pike white sapote (C. edulis) on white sapote rootstock is over 40 years old and so loaded with fruits that the undergrowth is loaded with squishy fruit.  A dwarfed white sapote tree would enable folks with small yards to enjoy this tree/fruit.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Sapote size control?
« on: January 12, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
Something which I have not tried yet is using an interstock of various lengths between the rootstock and the preferred scion. This is done with apples.  The interstock could be any related variety (like tetrameria or pringlei) and enough time to see what works.  My C. edulis trees on C. edulis roots are giants and leave massive numbers of fruits on the ground for the local varmits and chickens.  A dwarfed tree could be an asset for smaller yards.

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Sapote size control?
« on: January 12, 2018, 05:04:05 PM »
White sapotes can be grown as dwarfs. 


The photo shows a Pike white sapote over 20 years old.  There is a gallon pot next to it for size.  I have another that is the same age, but it is a Vernon.  It is in the ground and is not over 4 ft tall.  Both produce normal sized fruits and are prolific.  They are grafted on yellow sapote rootstock (Casimiroa tetrameria).  By grafting yellow sapote on white sapote rootstock the resulting tree is not as extremely dwarfed and measures 7 ft tall after more than 20 years in the ground.  I have several ones in the ground and they fruit normally and well.

20
Here on the central coast, several are excellent (besides Hass).  Jan Boyce, Stewart, Pinkerton, Edranol, and Hellen (2 L's).  Looks like a good year this year after last year's rains.  Hopefully more to come this year.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tertoh Avocado
« on: January 01, 2018, 09:38:21 AM »
William..Don't know if Orton actually sold any Creamhart trees or just shared scionwood like he did with John Moore.  When I met him and his wife he was getting a bit long-in-the-tooth and maybe was not creating new trees.  The mystery of the elusive Creamhart avocado and Orton's well-deserved reputation adds a bit of adventure to our collective interests.  I know of several, me included, who would like to be the finder of this treasure.  As to selling trees, I don't.  I do contribute greatly to the San Luis Obispo scion exchange in February, give away trees when I can, propagate as needed.  My 1 1/2 acre is filled and I cannot find any sunshine for a new acquisition so am now just sticking new scions on existing trees.  If you come to the Central Coast, look me up.

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tertoh Avocado
« on: December 31, 2017, 07:49:56 PM »
William..Creamhart has a story attached to it.  It was registered by Orton Englehart and a good friend, John Moore, got scionwood and grafted a tree in N. Baja at an orphanage that he worked with.  He had a "demonstration garden" with many CRFG plantings.  John has passed away. Bob Holzinger went back to Orton's old neighborhood, talked to current owner and neighbors and was not able to locate Creamhart.  I spend winters in La Paz, Baja, Mexico and stopped twice at the orphanage driving down talking to people and walking the grounds.  Again, their emphasis is macadamias (another story) and the avocados are pretty much unmarked.  So no luck there in Baja.  Harvey (CRFG) found someone who said they have a seedling of Creamhart and provided me with a scion since I have a small collection of avocados.  The scion is grafted on a multigrafted tree and has produced excellent fruit.  I have labelled it (as Harvey identified it) as Creamhart F1.  This year I have grafted it on rootstock to make a singular Creamhart F1 tree.  Is it or is it not?  I don't know, many have looked for this elusive tree, with no success.  I met Orton with John and have a great deal of respect for his inventions (Google Orton Englehart) and his plant registrations with CRFG and will grow the avocado out since it is an excellent fruit.  The identification is Creamhart F1 in honor of Orton whether it is actually the original tree or not.  Perhaps a forum member reading this can add to this saga and point us in another direction.  The only help I had from Julie was she thought the tree was in Baja, Mexico.  It apparently was, but lost in time. 

More adventures in tracking down the many Edenvale Feijoas out there.

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tertoh Avocado
« on: December 31, 2017, 06:19:15 PM »
William, don't know if you have this database, but it is listed here.
http://www.avocadosource.com/AvocadoVarieties/QueryDB.asp

24
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: tropical spices
« on: December 30, 2017, 05:38:57 PM »
Allspice is a good one.  Try Oscar at Fruitlovers for seeds.

25
I have a number of white sapotes, a couple are huge.  My suebelle is not a big tree, about the size of a peach tree and it is over 20 years old.  Of course a basic suebelle tree could be multigrafted too.

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