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Casearea quinduensis   -   RG   Small tree, green fruits almost identical to those of C. obovata

All well and good.  Except:

Red List Category & Criteria:   Extinct ver 2.3

Has anyone asked Jim about this before?  Either his ID is wrong (most probable), or he's selling seeds of a species that's thought to be extinct.

OK i asked Jim about this. Here is his answer:
"im not sure about the casearea quinduensis id.  in fact looking now, i
see casearea arborea was collected here, thats probably what i have.

That would be odd to release plant material to the public and then work on the patent or wait for the patent to go through.

Agreed. Once the plant material is out it's kind of hard to control it if the patent is not already in effect. Also very hard to control if the information as to what is and what is not patented is hard to access.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Visit to Jim West's Place in Ecuador
« on: March 22, 2018, 05:31:01 PM »
Some of the ones i got to taste for first time at Jim's place:
1) Matisia sp. from San Lorenzo. This is a bizarre type of Matisia that is cauliflorous--fruits right on trunk. Fruit was  very tasty, similar to cordatata (Chupa chupa), but was somewhat fibrous.
2)Matisia mestonii, which he now has reidentified as Matisia giacomettoi. This one had a nice taste, but much smaller than a Chupa chupa.
3)Matisia soegengii (previously called M. obiquifolia) is also smaller but not nearly as good tasting as the glacomettoi.
I think you just caught a mistake i made when i posted this 4 years ago. Yes the San Lorenzo matisia is what Jim is now calling M. soegengii.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread!  But according to the Guaycuyacu seed list, Jim offers two Matisias:

Matisia soegengii   SL sapote   CH   cauliflorous tree with flowers and fruits down to ground level. 8cm fruits with sweet scant fibrous pulp.
Matisia giacomettoi   sapote del monte   RG   6-8 cm yellow fruits similar to Q. cordata

So according to the Guaycuyacu site, M. soegengii is "Matisia sp. from San Lorenzo", the bizarre cauliflorous one.  Is your #3 perchance a Matisia that's not for sale, and different from M. soegengii?  Or has Jim misapplied the scientific name M. soegengii to the wrong tree?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Home made compost for fruit trees
« on: March 22, 2018, 05:14:42 PM »
Home made compost is wonderful, and that would be enough, if you could make enough. But unless you have only one tree to fertilize, or you have tremendous access to organic matter, you are not going to make enough to feed all your trees. I consider it as a supplement to my fertilizing. I mostly use it around my banana trees, as they are heavy feeders and it's easy to just dump the compost around them. I just cover on top with some wood chips to keep flies population down.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 20, 2018, 07:15:29 PM »
I feel for you on this subject.  Check out Uromys caudimaculatus (can grow 3 times the size of a black rat) and or Hydromys chrysogaster ( there is a family using my fountain at night )  They eat my seeds and cut down the small trees from ground level for bedding material.  I use wire over seed pots. Generally catch them in cages with peanut butter and relocate.

To my understanding, feral cats in parts of Australia have brought many species to the brink of extinction.
Many reasons why I support spayed or neutered cats.
I thought there were other apex predators and cats were slightly below them.
Same problem with cats here. I think that is the only down side of cats. Domesticated cats often go feral and hunt out our native species of birds. But i think most of the damage has already been done.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 19, 2018, 06:56:15 PM »
Yeah, agreed, cats are the best rodent solution. Not just ofr the garden, but also for rodents coming in the house. Just don't over feed them, or they will get spoiled and not do their job.

I think Noris Ledesma has been trying to propagate this at Fairchild farm unsuccessfully.
Their attempts were with grafting scion, not seeds. They were unsuccesful first few years because they did not have appropriate rootstock, Will not take on most mangiferas. I believe now they have appropriate rootstock.

If you grow mango you should have no problem with Wani. Treat it same way as mango. Just lay the seed on side when planting. If you carefully remove the husk it will germinate faster, but it's not necessary to do so. Occasional flooding should be ok.

IUCN has two separate categories, "Extinct in the wild", and "Extinct".  This one is listed as simply "Extinct".  See the above link and the categories on the top bar.

I do expect that the most probable answer is that Jim's ID is wrong.  But if it's not, he could be singlehandedly saving a species from extinction. which is just spectacular.

That's BTW one thing in general that I love about people on this forum  :)   All too often as I've been going through old threads I've run into people going out of their way to find species that are rapidly seeing their limited habitats destroyed due to development or agriculture - trees that were only found due to a couple specimens in the wild, in areas bound for destruction.  It may be beyond our capabilities as individuals to prevent global habitat loss, but it warms the heart to see these rare and amazing species being saved.  :)
I guess it would be very difficult for organizations to know what every single collector has in their collections, and whether a species is really completely extinct. Will ask Jim about this species. It's possible he named it wrong. There are no close by universities or authorities, and he often names things based on his own books and his own best guess at the moment.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:10:29 PM »
A piece of sheet metal around the trunk will make it too slippery for them to climb up.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Che AKA Chinese Mulberry
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:06:23 PM »
I have only ever ate 1 and it was rather dry and gritty (think of a mouth full of ground egg shells with a bit of flavoring ) all tho i have heard they are quite good and juicy that is why i was asking if there where good named cultivars, before i start looking for wood.                           Patrick
Sounds like it was not properly ripened.

Don't know the answer, but doesn't "extinct" sometimes mean "extinct in the wild"? So if that is correct, then an extinct species could be in private collections.
Following page from USDA seems to give that definition of the word extinct:
from 2015 NAL Glossary (2014)
by United States Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Library
"extinct species": Those species no longer known to exist after repeated search of the type localities and other known or likely places. Some species may be extinct in the wild but are being preserved by cultivation in gardens or as domesticated animals.
BTW, i think a lot of rare fruit trees are headed in this direction of extinction, but with luck present in some private collections.  Look at this lists i posted of endangered fruit trees (in 2 parts, list was too long to post in only one message):

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya question
« on: March 18, 2018, 05:39:11 AM »
I have a Papaya tree growing in Scottsdale,  AZ.  Been in ground 3 years.  At least 15 feet tall.  Constantly with fruit.  Bought it as an unnamed seedling at a garden event.
Problem is, I don't like the taste of the fruit.  Kind of has an unpleasant aftertaste.
Anyone have recommendation for easy to find varieties, that would be on the high end of the flavor profile?
In your climate zone no papaya is going to taste very good in winter or fall. They need warm weather to develop good sweet taste. Good complete fertilizer will also help.

Sorry didn't finish that post.The sibabat band black one obviously are the better types and have real commercial potential if they are productive enough.

Look at one report from 1981
Native bulala can be found in the Philippine mountains, but the fruit is poor. It is, however, used by most propagators as root stock for pulasan because of its strong growth. The introduced pulasan is of a very fine quality, and many who have tasted the fruit consider it superior to that of the Chinese litchi.
The pulasan is a tree that will adapt from sea level to some 300 metres. In fact, in Jakarta, they are raised between 230 and 300 metres above Sea level. It prefers a well-distributed rainfall and is more resistant to drought than the rambutan.
The first imports to the Philippines were from Indonesia in 1912 and were grown from seed. However, the more successful pulasan was introduced as a budded plant, but its variety is not known. The fruit are of very fine quality, and it is suspected that it is of the sibabat variety. Some of the commercial varieties in Indonesia are koeneng, merah, poetih and sibabat.

The Kamerung varieties from the 1970s were,
Pulasan varieties: Dow, Lee, P1, P3, P36, Sibabat, Unnamed
There were others that were brought in the 1980s.
I have fruiting bulala, and wouldn't say the fruit quality is poor. They are not as good as pulasan or rambutan, but still pretty darned good, and extremely  productive.a They are very juicy and have unique taste.  The bulala are compatible with pulasan but not a great rootstock as it tends to sprout a lot below the graft and eventually overpowers the scion if not very regularly pruned back.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Che AKA Chinese Mulberry
« on: March 18, 2018, 03:13:42 AM »
I think this fruit tastes very nice. Very juicy, with a  juice tasting very similar to watermelon juice. Unfortunately they don't do well in tropical climate.

Its all a bit hazy now Oscar but I did genuinely line them up and consume them together before and came to that conclusion at the time. I don't know if the fruit have changed or I have since then.
March is the peak month here for durian, langsat relatives, pulasan, rambutan, keledang,marang and maybe even mahgosteen.Because of rainfall and altitude variation in short distances there is a bit of variation and the season is lengthened because of it for many species,
Seeds of species supposedly with long juvenile development periods like ilama,and pulasan that I have received through this forum are productive fruiting trees now.
Actually Mike you went further and said years before that nobody planted pulasan in Australia because they were considered inferior in taste to rambutan. GASP!

Plarnt it. (You can plant them even before they root.)

Oh yeah taste.....and after consuming lots of rambutans specifically and fruit in generally lately I have a re-tuned my taste buds and redeveloped a 'cultured palate'. I have consumed the best rambutans lately like R167,R9,R156 and R134 which I reckon is the best.So how do these pulasan compare? They blow the rambutans away having a more complex taste that is sweeter and less acidic and the testa seed coat does not come away. Are pulasn better than rambutan? You bet they are.

I still remember your posts years ago when you claimed that pulasans were inferior to rambutans. I'm glad you finally sorted that out.  ;D There's always so much to learn in the tropical fruit world!
Funny you are getting pulasans at same time as durian and duku. I have rambutans, durians, and duku langsat now, but pulasans here usually fruit in early fall.

I planted 3 in ground.  They lasted 2-3 years, but did poorly, never reaching above - few feet high.  They definitely did not do  well in my yard.   As a comparison, I have had luck with breadfruit.
Probably the soil rather than the climate. Breadfruits are very tolerant of limestone, in fact they grow on coral atoll islands. Not sure, but perhaps the marang can't take the high pH of your soils?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mabolo question .
« on: March 15, 2018, 04:39:35 AM »
Thank You Karen , but I am still not convinced ....for comparison my grafted rambuttan for example , same thing ...plenty of fruit and no male in 100 km range .
Female mabolo trees will produce by themselves, but will be seedless. Your rambutan tree definitely has some hermaphrodite flowers which produce some pollen, and that is why you are getting fruits. But if you had a male rambutan tree around you would get a lot more fruit, as in completely loaded.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: dwarf mulchi ID
« on: March 15, 2018, 12:29:34 AM »
Dear Jim

Is it difference with giant mulch? I thought only size difference....

Plinia inflata has 2 varieties, one with regular fruit and one with giant fruit.

Plinia salticola = dwarf mulchi = it's own species

BTW this Lucia Kawasaki is a machine. Someone send her Ross Sapote and Luc's Garcinia for IDing
That's almost correct, except that the giant mulchi is a selection of a seedling mulchi that happened to produce large fruits. Wouldn't call it a variety. Don't even know. if the size is a stable trait.
Who is this Lucia Kawasaki?

South FL is the same climate as mine , 20 degrees North , I have fruiting marang at 300 meters above sea level .
Southernmost point in Florida is 25 degrees, very different from 20 where you're at. A more comparable city in Mexico to S. Florida latitude would be Nuevo Leon, very far to the north of Pto. Vallarta. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: dwarf mulchi ID
« on: March 13, 2018, 06:26:00 PM »
Giant mulchi is Plinia inflata, so a different species than the dwarf.
I think Jim has very sporadic internet access, so hard for him to post. But thanks Jim for sending this update. Been wondering about this one for a long time.
PS have seeds of the dwarf mulchi right now, if anyone is interested, please check my website.

There is a company in Texas making skin care products from sausage tree:

Only as an ornamental. It is very popular in botanical gardens because they are so strange looking with all the sausages hanging in mid air. I put sausage tree in same league with cannonball tree, also very strange looking and wonderful to look at, but strictly ornamental.

Agree with Oscar it is indigenous to this country and I have never heard it used as even a famine crop only ornamental and traditionally medicinal.

Ah forget it ( the traditional medicine ) , no idea what they use it for Stuart but if I ever need it or could be useful for curing this ( unidentified ) poisonous sting / bite that I got on my hand and 3 weeks later still has not healed , there probably will be no fruit available . Too bad , the flower is very nice and when loaded with pods it is a nice conversation tree . Chainsaw it will be .
Or just buy another piece of land and expand.  ;)

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