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Messages - Walt

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: February 12, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
Recently I printed this thread and re-read it all, marking things I'd missed and should respond to.
Several times I've written that I'll be growing 200 seedlings per population per generation.  Not the same thing at all.  With 9 populations, that would be 1800 seedlings per generation.  But I've decided I won't be doing population 9.  And population 1, pure P. trifoliata, will be a much smaller population.  All I'll be doing with population 1 will combine precocity, lack of nasty ponciris flavor, and high percent zygotic seeds.  That doesn't require 200 seedlings.  So I'm down to 1400 seedlings per generation.  By starting different populations in different years, I will be starting 200 to 400 seedlings per year.  However, I'm now planning on doing it with mandarins and with finger limes.  That means 400 or more seedlings per year.  I can do that.


3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: February 05, 2019, 12:16:36 PM »
Yes, I've learned that first hand.  Some zygotics may look liker their mothers.  And some polyembryonics have delays between first and second seedlings from the seeds.  So I'm hoping for any guesses on what to expect.   Anyone have experience with F2 Taitri?

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: February 05, 2019, 11:49:25 AM »
What percent of seedlings are zygotic?

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: February 04, 2019, 02:05:25 PM »
Taitri seedlings are finally germinating.  I think they were so slow because we were keeping our house cool to save heating cost.  Now I hope the (clem x tri) x clem will be germinating soon.

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 27, 2019, 01:35:39 AM »
I've been away from my computer a few hours, but this hasn't been out of my mind.  Kumin. your results so far alreadyshow  that I was wrong that all the F2 would be less hardy than the F1.  You said ALL your F1s are dead, but some of your F2s live.  I really didn't expect that.
You made my day.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 26, 2019, 02:33:55 PM »
Kumin
3,000 is a number I can respect.  I stated in long term cold hardy thread why I think F2 citranges will be less cold hardy than than F1.  But 3,000 trys?  If I'm wrong about even one of them, you win.  This is a real effort.
I think your chances would be better with older trees.  But you are doing a big job, so do it your way and I hope you succeed.
Thanks for the information about seed source.

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 25, 2019, 03:04:53 PM »
What  is your source of citrange seeds?
I'm glad to know someone else in the USA is growing F2 citrus x trifoliate hybrids. But mine are still at the tiny seedling stage, certainly not ready to face zone 6 winter.  In fact,  I assume I'll need at least one backcross to trifoliate, maybe two.  I would love it if you proved me wrong.
Keep us up to date on your results

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 17, 2019, 02:28:09 PM »
Actually I'm looking into forming an LLC to inherit the ground and plants and all rights to them.  My 2 children will be members of board of directers, to help see my plans continue.  But I will need directers who are deeply committed to citrus growing and breeding.  Anyone can PM me if interested.  Or I guess you could write me here.  I'm not trying to hide anything.

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 15, 2019, 04:17:11 PM »
Eyecker also sent 15 Taitri fruit.  Only the best 3 were worthy of making lemonade.  But the 15 fruit contained 500 seeds which are planted.  I hadn't planned to breed lemons, but they are this really big group of F2 seeds to come along.  It will be a chance to look at a big F2 population, unless they are mostly nucelar.  I tend to get ahead of myself.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 15, 2019, 04:10:38 PM »
Stan sent me some US 852 fruit.  As I reported back then, they were much too sour, but the juice was OK diluted with water and sweetened.
Eyecker sent me a (clem x trifoliate) x clem fruit.  It was much better, more sour than I like, but not bad.
So now I've tasted a half mandarine half trifoliate, and 3/4 mandarin, 1/4 trifoliate.  I've tasted only one variety of each type.  Truely this is a sample size too small to mean much.  But in my mind I'm extrapolating anyway.  Very encouraging.

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 14, 2019, 04:19:41 PM »
Keep us up to date about this cross.  I am excited to know it exists now.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:17 PM »
I still have lots to learn. 
Today there is a thread started on brix of citrus.  Brix and pH are 2 things I'll need to be measuring on many fruit.  I knew that, and the brix thread tells how.  Good.  It also warns that brix varies depending on side of tree, which end of the fruit, and more.
And I've learned in the last few days that when a seed has 2 or more seedlings, they may germinate more than 2 weeks apart.  So some of what I thought were monoembryonic aren't.
But I'm not discouraged.  I've wanted to do this for 30 years.  I'm going to stick to it.
I'm very grateful for all I've learned on this forum, and the previous forum.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 26, 2018, 03:29:48 PM »
I've past 40 seedlings from US 852.  Only 3 have been polyembryonic.  From what I read, only about 20 of them should be zygotic.  I'm starting to wonder if all the monozygotic seeds are really zygotic.  Hadyvermont PMed me saying he doubted if all monozygotic seeds are zygotic.  I argued against him, though I was also starting to think the same.  I was arguing mostly put together my best argument and convince myself.
I'm pretty sure I'm geting at least some zygotic seedlings.  Some are unifoliate.  Some have lobed, mitten-shaped leaves.  Some are trifoliate, but the 2 outer leaflets are tiny and hard to see.  Some look like US 852, but might segregate for other traits than leaf shape if I let them mature. 
None are being discarded.  They are too young to be sure of anything yet.  None have more than 7 leaves,  Some are still coming through the ground.  But I'm thinking I might have to find a better way to be sure which are zygotic.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 13, 2018, 01:45:52 PM »
I have 29 Us 852 Zygotic seedling growing.  3 are new today. 2 were new yesterday, so they are still sprouting.  So far only 2 have been polyembryonic.  I should have 200 zygotic seedlings by now, but a move and cold got in the way.
Most are still too small to tell if they are trifoliate or unifoliate.  (monofoliate?  I never know when to use poly or multi and mono or uni.  I don't learn like when I was younger.)  I find that they have to have 4 or 5 leaves before I can tell if those little leaves are single or not.  And then I know from reading this forum that different leaves on the same plant can be trifoliate and unifoliate.
I'm only interested it leaf type to see the first sign of segregation.  I don't really care if my results have trifoliate leaves or not.

16
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 03, 2018, 03:09:41 PM »
I've read that online, in discussions on tomatoes, etc.  I'm wondering if it works on trees.  Mostly I'm wondering about citrus trees, of course.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: December 03, 2018, 12:01:01 PM »
A third seed is germinated this morning.  It has at least 2 seedlings coming from it.  So some are monoembryonic, some are multiembryonic.  Sample size of 3 gives no real statistical information.  But at least I know some are monoembryonic and some aren't.  I have 19 of these planted.  I expect more will germinate.  Every one will give a little more information about percent monoembryonic.
I'll have to sort them and keep track of which are which.
And someone recently posted that percent monoembryonic is influenced by pollen parent.  I expect temperature during growth of seeds before harvest might also influence it.  So much to learn.

18
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 02, 2018, 03:29:08 PM »
Ilya.  Thanks for info on Android lux meter level,  I'll have to get that.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 02, 2018, 03:23:19 PM »
True.  The Agricultural Research Station at Woodward, Oklaholma, USA has their "greenhouse" in their basement, as lighting is cheaper than heating.

20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 01, 2018, 04:11:13 PM »
Good for you.
I was in Low's a couple of days ago, and I saw that LED grow lights were selling for $27 for a foot long strip, that when I got home, I found it was extremely bright.  And the red and blue is suposed to be used much better than the full spectrum lights.
This is not an ad for Low's.  I'm sure that if I had shopped online, I could have found it cheaper.  Just saying prices have come down since I had last shopped for LED grow lights.  You might think about adding some.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 01, 2018, 03:57:21 PM »
Ilya.  Thanks for the advice.  I have plenty of 3 to 5 year old in pots P. trifoliatas available for roots stocks.  And today I have 5 more US 852 seedlings than yesterday.  They seem to have started germinating for real.  They are small, but someone recently posted a link to a Youtube lesson on micrografting.  Looks like micrografts could be made without sacrificing the seedlings, I mean, I could use the same seedling to graft onto several US 852 seedlings, just in case my first micrografts don't work.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 30, 2018, 03:24:36 PM »
N1triVos F2 seedlings started coming up on Thanksgiving.  Now, just 8 days later, the largest is 10 cm. tall, with 9 leaves.  The second largest is 8 1/2 cm., with 7 leaves, but its leaves are wider, so it has more leaf area.  I can already see segregation for some traits, but not the ones that matter.  Seedlings number 5 and 6 came up overnight.  I expect more will come up.
The N1triVos seedlings are next to a pot of finger lime seedling.  Finger limes are about 6 weeks old, I think, and in good health.  But they are less than 1/2 as tall as the tallest N1triVos F2 seedlings.  The finger limes have more leaves, but less leaf area.
Precocity in apples is best measured by counting leaves to first flowers.  I mean when comparing populations not growing in near identical conditions.  So I am counting and recording number of leaves as a measure of precocity, hoping I'll find it is true with citrus.  But I am seeing differences in days of growth between nodes, so I have my doubts.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 30, 2018, 03:04:19 PM »
I started planting seeds of US852 about November 1 or 2.  First 2 seedling showed this morning, Nov 30.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: November 28, 2018, 01:06:06 PM »
I have some precocious P.t seeds from Laaz germinating.  The first 2 seedling are single, so I guess they are from monozygotic seeds, and maybe therefore zygotic.
A couple of years ago, I got seeds  of precocious P.t from Alan Bishop.  From 10 seeds, I got about 8 seedling.  Though I didn't notice whether they were each from different seeds, the numbers suggest they might have been.
So, has anyone noticed whether Laas's precocious P.t breeds true even when crossed?  If not, I'll be using it as seed parent as well as pollen parent.

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter care of citranges, etc.
« on: November 24, 2018, 12:04:01 PM »
Yes, my citranges have always wintered indoors, or in an unheated leanto greenhouse on the south side of my house.  There they had mild freezes but remained green and presumably growing some.

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