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Messages - simon_grow

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango
« on: October 19, 2017, 11:36:58 PM »
I believe many of the ďTurpentine ď type mangos have similar characteristics such as small, highly productive, good growing, relatively disease resistant, Sweet, fibrous, and strong Turpentine smell in the sap. I am by no means an expert in Turpentine mangos. I have no ideas about their origins but their use as rootstocks is legendary.

The video from Truly Tropical shows one type of Turpentine Mango that is more rounded.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this cherimoya doing okay?
« on: October 19, 2017, 02:53:50 PM »
Your tree looks too tall. Next Spring, you should bring it down much lower but above the graft. You will have difficulty pollinating the flowers and bagging/harvesting fruit if the canopy is too high up.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:31:54 PM »
Description sounds like Turpentine.  Do you consider this unique?

Leo and several others have explained to me that there are many different types of what we call ďTurpentineĒ mango. He got this one from Puerto Rico a long time ago and several of his trees that are doing well are on this rootstock. I donít think there is anything special about this fruit but there could be something very special about this rootstock for those of us growing mangos in SoCal.

Most if not all the commercially produced mango trees in Florida are on ďTurpentineĒ rootstock but I donít know specifically which variety they are using. I know it was selected for its excellent adaptability and fruiting ability when grown in Florida but itís a horrible rootstock for us here in SoCal.

Hopefully this rootstock will perform well in our growing conditions, I know for sure itís eorked really well for Leo.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:04:46 PM »
The sap from this PR Turpentine Mango has an extremely strong Turpentine smell, which I actually like.

Also picked up a Rose Giant

And here is what a Todos Santos looks like

And here is one of the best tasting local mango varieties created by Leo, his Leo #2. This one has a Brix of 26% and is consistently excellent tasting.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango
« on: October 18, 2017, 10:50:28 PM »
I got an email from Leo Manuel today saying that he has a lot of Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango Fruit Fruit that I may be very interested in for my Mango rootstock experiments. Leo mentioned that the fruit was very sweet and tasted really good but it is extremely fibrous. He explained to me on a previous visit that I can let it fully ripen and then squish it into pulp and suck the juice out like a mango juice box.

I keep Leo updated with all my Mango experiments and he believes this rootstock is one of the better rootstocks for growing in SoCal and he personally has several very large trees on this rootstock. One of the varieties he has on this rootstock is called Todos Santos and it is one of the most productive and disease free trees that also has. It is a moderately vigorous tree with a dense canopy and the consistency of its heavy fruiting is one of its more st attractive features.

Leo also mentioned that some others that have sampled this Fruit noticed that the fibers are not as noticeable if the fruit is eaten in a less ripened stage.

Here are some pictures of the Puerto Rican Turpentine Mango Fruit


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Jehangir mango
« on: October 17, 2017, 10:07:06 PM »
Iíve tasted it several times at our mango tastings and it was excellent. It was sweet and had a pale white/yellow color with excellent Indian resin flavor component. I grafted it onto Leo Manuelís tree and it is growing well. Many people at the Mango tasting(last year) liked this Mango.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« on: October 17, 2017, 09:55:43 PM »
Iíve received so many requests for grafted trees that I may graft a few up for sale if I find some extra time.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« on: October 16, 2017, 10:19:22 PM »
Iíve never bare rooted a Florida Turpentine rootstock mango tree before but someone did suggest it to me a while back. As long as the tree is not planted deep, I did not find anything unusual about the soil the Florida potted trees are shipped to us in. I always make sure to have the root flare above ground or at least keeping the first root right at or above soil level.

Iím also afraid of bare rooting Mango trees although Iíve seen several people on this forum(Pugluvr) and another person bringing a Mango tree as carry on luggage, do it.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best fruit tree fertilizer
« on: October 16, 2017, 10:11:33 PM »
The fertilizer would depend on many factors including your starting soil composition, what stage of growth your trees are in(establishing, veg, fruiting), rainfall, and potted vs in ground. The pH of your soil and water should also be factored in for selecting a fertilizer.

To keep it simple for general plants Nutricote or Osmocote plus type fertilizers work well.


Thatís awesome, I would love to see a picture if you have time to post it here.


Thereís a lot of articles out there that talk about scion rootstock influences but I believe you are more interested in the lateral gene transfer between plant grafts at the Union such as the case with my CSMR?
Here is one article that explains it a bit.

By using multiple rootstocks from a diverse genetic pool such as the use of both Polyembryonic( CRFG says polys are resistant to Anthracnose) and Monoembryonic (CRFG says monos are more resistant to Powdery Mildew) seedlings, I hope that the rootstocks that are more adaptable will survive and the rootstocks may even be able to impart resistance to specific bioburdens.

I have a thread on Mango rootstocks that talks more specifically about other Mangifera species that are known to impart benefits. Dr Richard Campbell, Noris Ledesma and Dr Crane would know much more about this subject than myself.

I want everyone to know that what Iím doing is not Science. Iím simply very curious and performing basic experiments, not even really experiments because I donít have real controls, to see what may work for an average backyard gardener. I do keep up with the latest technologies regarding gardening especially as it relates to growing Mango but what Iím trying to come up with is a technique that can be utilized by average gardeners that donít have access to test fields and DNA sequencing technologies.


Simon - You are undertaking a fascinating project which looks to be doing very well. Congratulations.
A mundane question that may be relevant to others too is whether your trees may become a violation of building ordinances. The 4' side yard is mandated as a fire break and a tree may be considered a fire hazard. It probably won't be a problem unless you have a grumpy neighbor who complains but it's just a heads-up in case you want to check. I had trees on the south side of my house and Santa Monica (an arbor day tree city) demanded that I cut them down after they changed city ordinances to limit "fences" in front of houses to 4'. Apparently an anonymous neighbor complained. I managed to save them by appealing directly to the city council but the whole process was time consuming and expensive.

Hello BajaJohn, thatís a good point. My neighborhood is not governed by HOA and many homes in the area have trees surrounding their homes. The fire codes are their for a reason and my side yard has enough room for me to knock out the windows and their is enough clearance next to the fence to make a get away.

My upcoming plans are to create more of these trees in half barrels so that they are more easily transported. Being able to transport them will allow me to lend it out to the local California Rare Fruit Growers Association to garner more interest in growing rare fruit.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 16, 2017, 01:10:13 PM »
The flesh around the skin is my favorite part. It tastes like it has the most flavor components, turpenes I suppose. If you get too close to the skin, there can be some sort of natural component in the skin that tickles the back of my throat and makes me want to cough.

The good thing about these flavor grenade type mangos is that a little bit goes a long way and in the case of Sweet Tart, the fruit grows in clusters and are often relatively small. The Sweet Tart variety can even hold a decent amount of fruit in a pot although it will need judicious pruning.

People that have a basement, balcony or small patio can grow this variety and the small mangos will go a long ways in terms of not needing a lot of flesh to be satisfied.


I used one of my California Super Mango Rootstock seedlings planted in a MicroKote treated pot for this Japanese inspired ultra low tree. I have my original experiments still growing but they are developing slower because they only have a single rootstock.

I like the idea of having one of these Japanese inspired trees inside a plastic half barrel because it will be somewhat transportable when small or if heavily pruned back. This tree has nice branching and a thick trunk considering it is only a little over one year old.

Because I intend to keep this tree relatively small, I am not planning on it producing lots of fruit. The focus will be on producing fewer, ultra high quality fruit of top tier varieties. Because this tree is potted and will be wide and relatively short in stature, I need to keep the overall width of the tree to a reasonable size, maybe 3x3 or at most 4x4 so that I can perform annual or biannual root pruning and re potting.

I will also have to graft low so that if/when I need to cut the tree back for rejuvenation or for transport, the cuts will be above the graft line.

I plan on making this a designer tree and will treat it as much as artwork as I will treat it as a fruit producing tree. So far, I plan to graft the following varieties onto it:
1) Lemon Zest
2) Sweet Tart
3) Fruit Punch
4) PiŮa Colada
5) Peach Cobbler
6) Pineapple Pleasure
7) Cotton Candy
8) Phoenix

In the future, I plan on creating more themed trees such as the Citrus themed consisting of PPK, Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet Seedling.

Anyways, here are my first ties on the first tree. These bends/ties are to keep the branches low but still angled upwards but only slightly. I am also positioning the branches in a manner that will fill in all the empty space.


Here is a CSMR tree planted into the ground at Spaughís place. Itís about 3-4 feet tall and was planted into the ground about 2 months ago. It is a little over 1 year old.


Done, I hope they will get energy back and rebuild soon. Iím sure every little bit helps!


Done! Every little bit helps, even if just a few dollars. If I were hit with a natural disaster, I would really appreciate all the help I could get. This forum and all the members are awesome!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical fruits in Socal
« on: October 15, 2017, 11:47:13 PM »
How was the Cumbe? There was a variety native to Peru that they sold at the local markets. I forget what the name of that variety is but I thought it was Cumbe or something similar. I remember the fruit was very large.

Raul also has a sale thread of some giant Cherimoya that I would love to get a hold of if the fruit tastes good.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 15, 2017, 11:42:52 PM »
I just cut open the Sweet Tart grown on Florida Turpentine rootstock and it had a Brix of 26%. It was an excellent Mango but the sweetness and intensity of flavor was much stronger in the fruit with 30% Brix. I also noticed that this fruit had more fibers around the fruit.

This is just a small sampling of fruit from two different rootstocks and we are just starting to track this kind of info but no conclusions can be drawn until we get a lot more data from more fruit from different trees and over multiple years. There can be significant differences in the quality of fruit even from the same tree.

Here is a picture of the Sweet Tart when it was first sent to me

And here it is 11 days later ripened with bottom heat set at 93F


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 15, 2017, 05:18:11 PM »
Mark, these Sweet starts weíre shipped to me dark green, one of them had a tiny bit of yellow, but the rest were completely green and rock hard. They were so hard that the person that shipped the fruit to me didnít use any packing material at all and the box was crushed on one corner yet every fruit, so far, has been perfect. Here in SoCal, we get less rains and the fruit ripens on the tree for extended periods of time which seems to make them very sweet as long as we are careful not to overwater.

Iíve had excellent tasting Sweet Tarts so I was expecting the Brix to be around 24-26 but I was blown away with the 30% reading! The density of flavor was just incredible. I believe this is the highest Brix reading I have taken for the Sweet Tart variety.

Eating this mango is like eating candy, I can see why some people say they canít eat more than one of these ultra sweet flavor bombs.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 15, 2017, 08:30:04 AM »
Ripe fruit


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 15, 2017, 12:55:02 AM »
Some pictures did not load for some reason.
Here are some pictures of the Sweet Tart on Manilla rootstock cut open. It had a Brix of 30%
Postimage not working, Iíll try again tomorrow

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Truly tropical top 5
« on: October 15, 2017, 12:44:42 AM »
California ST, hard to beat at this time or anytime of the year. They are sweeter and more complex than any mangos I've ever had anywhere

I just cut open this Sweet Tart grown in Anaheim Hills area of SoCal and it was, as Frank described, one of the sweetest and most complex mangos Iíve ever eaten! The Mysterious Mr. AZ sent me a few different Sweet Tarts grown either on Manilla rootstock or Florida Turpentine rootstock and asked me to compare and contrast the two.

This fruit grown on Manilla rootstock was sent to me rock hard and green on October 4. There was not a bit of yellow on its skin so I ripened it with bottom heat set at 93F and turned the fruit multiple times a day to try to get even ripening. After 10 days, the outer skin was slightly wrinkly and the fruit had a very light sweet smell to it.

The flavor was phenomenal and I let it get to this very ripe wrinkly stage because i like it very sweet with just enough acidity to balance out the intense sweetness. It had a strong Indochinese flavor component that was acidic and multidimensional and not just sour like lemon or vinegar. The juice was thick and viscous because of all the sugar. This Fruit had a Brix reading of 30%!

Iím really shocked that this fruit developed such fine flavor and such a high level of sugars considering the fruit was completely green and rock hard when I received it. Here are some pictures when they first arrived at my house.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tropical fruits in Socal
« on: October 14, 2017, 11:05:55 PM »
Beautiful spread Frank. I see sugar overload in your near future. Congrats on the bounty!


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Mango trees planted in California
« on: October 14, 2017, 04:32:04 PM »
Here is what some typical branches look like from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees. There is a lot of dry cracked bark and odd lignification of even smaller branches. Once partially lignified, these branches do not continue to expand proportional to the rest of the tree. These branches and trunk are from Florida Turpentine rootstock trees that were planted approximately 7 years ago.


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