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Messages - simon_grow

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Yeah, his Koi pond and all his other trees are definitely increasing the humidity. Iíll try to stop by in late Winter to see how itís doing. Iíll keep everyone updated. If we get another warm Winter, it should survive.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangosteen unprotected in San Diego
« on: September 19, 2020, 03:22:45 PM »
I highly doubt it will survive another Winter but he already proved me wrong once.

He said he did not protect it in any manner during the winter. I didnít ask him if he recently protected inthe heatwave.  Iíll keep everyone updated.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mangosteen unprotected in San Diego
« on: September 19, 2020, 02:54:54 AM »
I tried growing purple mangosteen about 15-20 years ago but killed a few trees and after doing a lot of research, I realized that it would be nearly impossible to grow and fruit it in San Diego unless I had a greenhouse.

Anyways, I gave up on growing it and whenever anyone asks me about growing mangosteen in San Diego, I tell them not to bother because itís a waste of time and money. I told this to my friend that lives just a mile or two from my house and when I visited him today, I was shocked to see that he ignored my warnings and proved me wrong. I told him last year that the plant wonít last one Winter unprotected outdoors and he planted it into the ground last year anyways and I was surprised to see the plant was still alive and even looked relatively healthy.

Heís had this plant for 6 years and had been keeping it under his patio and overhang of his roof for the last several years and also slowly adapting it to the full sun/cold.

Last year, around late Summer or fall, he planted it into the ground and hereís what it looks like today. I still donít think it will survive very long outdoors unprotected but itís at least survived one Winter outside. On a side note, last year, our Winter was very mild and I did not get frost for the first time in many years.

The community I live in is made up of houses packed tightly together with relatively small yards. I believe the large amount of fruit trees in his yard along with his Koi Pond is bringing up his humidity. He also waters his trees with pond water and perhaps the mangosteen enjoys that, I donít know.

All I know is that my mangosteen didnít seem to like temperatures below around 65F-55F. Mine died the firstWinter I put it out. Perhaps the close proximity of all the homes is holding in the heat from the surrounding area? I have no idea.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Difference between small and big mango seeds
« on: September 17, 2020, 01:29:33 AM »
There is a difference but itís a long story. If your talking about the same type of seeds, say Kent for example, the larger seed would have more stored energy compared to a smaller seed so you would expect the larger seed to grow with a bit more vigor. In this scenario, Kent is a monoembryonic mango variety donít the fruit is the result of cross pollination or it was selfed( it was pollinated by itself) .

In either case, there would be a re arrangement of the genetic material and sibling seedling trees would all be slightly different on the genetic level and although they are all Kent seedlings, the re arrangement of the genetic material may have given one seedling a genetic advantage in terms of growth. In actual practice however, I have planted hundred of Kent seedlings and the majority of the seedlings grew at a similar rate.

When talking about Polyembryonic mango varieties, letís use Sweet Tart for example, I have noticed that the larger segments of the seed grew larger seedlings at a faster rate. Iíve had some very small segments of seed like a fingernail sized piece of seed sprout and it grew noticeably slower than its larger segmented siblings.

When you compare Monoembryonic to Polyembryonic seed sizes, it depends on the varieties and at which stage of growth you are talking about. Letís compare Kent to NDM.

Kent is a much larger seed because NDM usually has a very small and thin seed. Upon sprouting, the Kent seedling is noticeably larger and thicker in girth. Kent is great for stone or epicotyl grafting because of this fact. NDM starts out much thinner in girth and not as tall in the first few weeks or months but after it reaches a certain size, it just growth with extreme vigor and eventually outgrows the Kent.

These are my observations in my back yard in my climate with my specific soil conditions so others may have a completely different observation. Iíve grown many mango seedlings but take this info with a grain of salt and best thing for you is to test it out yourself.


I believe it would be cost prohibitive to move such large trees. Grafted avocado trees grow quickly in our climate and avocado trees are relatively inexpensive.


Thanks guys, I hate it when trees are mislabeled.

Satya, Ive seen some of those fatter filled in Mallikas on my friends tree before. Hopefully my friend can give more info once the fruit is ripe.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Can anyone tell what variety of mango this is?
« on: September 13, 2020, 08:21:39 AM »
One of my friends asked me to post this picture of a mango fruit he is growing. Can anyone tell which variety it could be? I believe it was sold to him as a Phoenix.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
« on: September 12, 2020, 04:19:20 PM »
Awesome updates everyone. Please keep us all updated. Iím very interested in long term survivability.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: California Super Mango rootstock experiment
« on: September 12, 2020, 04:17:04 PM »
Yes, I would try Kasturi/Casturi and also there was another rootstock that I read was more adaptable to wet soil but I canít recall itís name. It was not M. Indica. It may have been Kuini or something like that.

This thread may have more information


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 11, 2020, 08:07:43 PM »
Behl, if you are just looking for an increase in size of 10-25%, that can be accomplished by supplementing with algae and yeast extract. Please see table 4 in this article.

Here is a picture of a Jumbo Kesar from a festival in India.


1)Sugarcane juice with Calamansi juice as an antioxidant, prevents browning of juice

2)Watermelon juice with Meyer lemon juice as antioxidant and pomegranate juice for added flavor, color and antioxidants. Add a pinch of sea salt to increase perception of sweetness

3)Fresh squeezed Valencia Orange, Moro Blood orange, Oro Blanco grapefruit, Gold Nugget Tangerine or Tango Tangerine juice

4)Fresh Coconut Juice

5)And one of my favorites that I accidentally created was fresh squeezed Mango juice combined with fresh Cherimoya juice. I only got a small sip of this juice and it was created unintentionally when I was cutting up a bunch of cheap Kent or Haden fruit to collect their seeds and I used the same plate to cut up some cherimoya. The juice got combined and when I slurped it up, it was like nectar from the gods! I just wish I had more than a small sip of it.


I have heard people say that seedling grown trees can be healthier but have not seen any poly trees fruiting well in the 5-10 year old range. I would love to see examples of people having success with this.

I believe somewhere on this thread is a picture of a NDM seedling loaded with fruit.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 11, 2020, 02:37:28 PM »
Behl, in addition to what I just posted, the video I posted above Mentions that the Jumbo Kesar is about double the size of the regulars Kesar, thatís 100%. See video around 1:45-3:00. The guy in the video planted out many acres of these Jumbo Kesar( and regular Kesar) and I donít doubt your curator friend is an expert on Kesar but this guy in the video literally planted out acres upon acres of this special selection and the proof is in the pudding. This should disprove the 10-25% bigger hypothesis. In the video I posted, the grower also stated the fruit were not ripe yet and had about three weeks of growing left.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM »
I disagree with comments over shape changing. mangoes do not change shape this dramatic, yes, size and flavor can varry. I sent this picture to Indian curator who is a good friend of mine in Gujrat, birth place of Kesar and Jumbo kesar, and he confirmed the picture to be not Jumbo Kesar. Jumbo kesar is identical to kesar with 10-25% bigger size. Kesars are small-medium sized and dont have curved shape.  The link above shows actual jumbo kesar picture from Indian site that sells these mangoes.

Hey Behl, here are some pictures of two panicles of Lemon Zest fruits on the same tree. The panicles bloomed at the same time yet the shape and other morphological characteristics are very different.

These first two pictures show the much shorter, rounder fruit. The beak is not as prominent and this close up shows that the lenticils are significantly darker. Even the feel/texture of the skin of the fruit is different. These smaller, rounder fruit have a rough, pebbly feel and the full sized fruit are smooth

These next three pictures show the normal sized and shaped Lemon Zest fruit. They are about two to three times the mass of the smaller fruit and you can obviously see the significant difference in shape.  Notice the prominent beak on these normal sized/shaped fruit.

This should be proof enough about shape changing.

Watering and fertilization can have a significant affect on the size of mangos and other fruit. This was the only fruit from this graft which may also have contributed to the giant size. In any case, my friend is very familiar with the Kesar variety so he should know immediately upon first bite. Giant fruit sometimes tastes a bit watered down but it should still be clearly evident if itís a Jumbo Kesar or not.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 11, 2020, 02:05:35 PM »
Time will tell. This mango is still pretty green but it should ripen in 9 days or less depending on temperature.

Behlgarden, shape of mangos can be very different depending on many factors including incomplete or partial pollination which may cause nubbin production which forms smaller, rounder fruit, often with aborted seeds.

My Maha produced two distinctly shaped fruit. One is sigmoidal and the other is more straight without the bend.

I also currently have two distinctly shaped Lemon Zests hanging on my tree which I have posted about before.

Behl, if you donít believe that mangos can have different morphological characteristics, I will post some pictures of my fruits. 


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf mango rootstock project
« on: September 11, 2020, 11:19:34 AM »
There has actually been some good research done on mango rootstocks and they did find varieties that dwarfed the size of specific grafted scion varieties. On top of that, they found dwarfing rootstocks that had higher productivity than other dwarfing rootstocks.

There are also rootstocks that may deter specific pests or are more adaptable to saline soils, drier soils or more resistant to diseases in wet conditions.

The dwarfing effect is dependent on specific rootstock/scion combinations. Also, if your soil or climate is different than that where the research took place, the growth/productivity and disease resistance may be different. See the thread I just bumped.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf Mango Project
« on: September 11, 2020, 11:06:41 AM »
Awesome project future! Not sure if youíve seen this old thread I started? Many of the links are now broken but I just updated it with a newer link on the last post.

There are certain rootstocks that can contribute to smaller overall size of trees and increase yields but overall affect is highly dependent on the specific Rootstock and Scion. A rootstock that dwarfs variety A may not dwarf variety B.


Some of the links I provided are too old and now broken. Hereís a newer link that works.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: why can't I lose weight
« on: September 11, 2020, 10:41:29 AM »
Your wrists are too skinny, eat away! Once your wrists get the jelly rolls like a fat 2 year old baby, then you may want to consider backing down to not more than 10 annona fruits a day.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pineapple thread
« on: September 11, 2020, 10:36:35 AM »
Iíve heard of people using Calcium Carbide to stimulate flowering and fruiting. Iíve also read that you can use an apple core or something that releases ethylene gas in order to stimulate flowering and fruiting. Here in SoCal, the cold tends to be enough to stimulate flowering. Hereís a White Jade that fruited at a very young age.

On a side note, the variety of pineapple I want to grow/eat the most is the Meli Kalima. My friend visited Hawaii and said it was the most delicious pineapple he has ever eaten. I believe it is a patented variety so unfortunately no growing of this variety for us.


Seaweed/kelp emulsion definitely is beneficial as a fertilizer as it contains many major, minor and trace elements. If youíre looking for something above and beyond, you may consider Algae/yeast extract.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pineapple thread
« on: September 11, 2020, 12:39:52 AM »
It seems new and fancy varieties get some publicity every so often but they rarely seem o make it o general circulation.

Thanks for the link Mike! I would love to try that Coconut flavored Pineapple next to a Coconut Cream and Pineapple Pleasure Mango and probably throw in a Pina Colada, E4/M4 mango Just for kicks. Letís wash this all down with a real Pina Colada drink. Perhaps too much sugar.

Brads got some of the best looking Pineapple plants Iíve seen in SoCal. Brad, you should post a pic of the monster pineapple you grew with all the weird tops coming out of it.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: keitt / kent as viable rootstock?
« on: September 11, 2020, 12:24:48 AM »
Yes, Kent seedlings are monoembryonic although they may have more than one shoot come up. If you get multiple shoots from a Kent Seedling, it is highly likely that all the shoots originate from a single source root.

True Polyembryonic mango seedlings will have multiple sprouts, each with their own tap root although sometimes a few of the seedlings will share a tap root. The seedlings that share a taproot should be considered genetically identical.


Grafting alters the hormone balance in trees. So does pruning. Iíve also noticed that seedling trees often look and grow more vigorously. Iíve also seen plenty of excellent looking trees that were grafted And well taken care of.

Seedling trees will grow vegetatively until they naturally reach sexual maturity and the roots and shoots grow in balance with nature unless they are pruned or conditions are altered by their human caretakers or in some cases by Mother Nature via tornados/hurricanes.

The balance of root and shoot growth creates a nice looking tree.

When we plant a grafted tree, we alter the hormone balance by grafting with mature scions which induces precocity. Flowering and fruiting causes physiological changes in the trees canopy. Most noticeable is the delicious fruit that is the result of the flowering event.

When a tree is sizing up fruit, it will pull from its stored energy sources and often if it fruits heavily, you can see some yellowing of the leaves due to movement of mobile nutrients from the leaves to the fruit. This may be a possible cause of the tired look on grafted trees.


Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First confirmed Jumbo Kesar in SoCal?
« on: September 11, 2020, 12:09:01 AM »
Check out this video for Jumbo Kesar. In any case, we should find out if this is really a Jumbo Kesar when my friend cuts it open. We should find out in about 1 week.


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