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Messages - Goyo626

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava Grafting (top work)
« on: November 21, 2019, 09:21:50 PM »
Do you guys think its an ok time to tip work guava or better to wait until spring?

I would wait until temps warm. Late summer 2018, i did some guava grafts. Only one was alive after 2 weeks. The live one struggled through winter only to die in spring.

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: September 05, 2019, 03:43:04 PM »
Update:




They really seem to grow by the hour once they start to flush. This is the same pics from my last post (the first 3 pics).

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 29, 2019, 10:01:07 PM »
The top pics was a side cleft graft. The other one was indeed a regular cleft graft. I cant remember if these were lined up on one side or both.

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: August 29, 2019, 12:52:55 PM »

You take a shot and share your pictures. Worst case you will have two high likelihood on your pencil thich shoots and two fair shots on the thinner shoots. 


I did a ton of grafts last wednesday and thursday so i didnt get a chance to take pics of all but one of the grafts. I such a hurry i even forgot to take a pic of the completed graft but i did get the cuts made on scion and rootstock. Had a hardtome trying to match the width on the cuts. I would go too deep on lots of the scions and would just try to match one of the sides as best i could. This particular one was one of the better ones.

Cut to rootstock



Cut main cut to scion



Back cut to scion



Side view



Sorry for the blurry pics. Didnt have access to a better camera. After one week everything is still green.

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 29, 2019, 12:22:28 PM »
Update. After weeks weeks there hasnt been much change. Both grafts have just sat there. Both graft are still green. And i have been diligently rubbing off growth below the grafts as well as pinching swollen buds below and above the grafts. But in the last couple of days i have noticed a bud swelling.









And this one is of an unrelated graft i did in late june that has barely started to push. My guess is simon is right and my grafting technique doesnt allow for optimal cambium contact.




6
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bordeaux fig flowers pic please
« on: August 23, 2019, 07:41:37 PM »
As far as i know figs are inverted flowers so they dont flower like peaches or mangoes. The fig “fruit” is the actual flower.

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 02, 2019, 07:40:43 PM »
This stage I like to harvest my bud wood

Ed








Thanks for the visual ill keep it in mind. The reason i posted the thread was because i had prepared a scion hoping it would get to the point that looks like your pic. What i noticed was that a lower section of the same branch looked very similar to your pic (except it didnt have the terminal bud). So my conundrum was either to wait and possibly miss an opportunity to harvest the bottom section or take both sections. Har advised that both sections were suitable for grafting so i decided to take both.

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 02, 2019, 02:30:03 PM »
Your scions could have been allowed to swell up a bit more but they were plenty good for a successful graft. In SoCal, it can take a while for buds to swell big unless there is a lot of heat. Some grafts can stall for many months. Make sure you pinch back buds from below the graft union.

Often when you do a cleft graft, the area immediately beneath the graft union will try to push new growth because the apical tip was removed. If you allow the buds to push out, it will pull energy away from your grafted scion.

Simon

Thanks i was getting a little worried. I pulled back the parafilm and the buds are very swollen one and the other is swollen but not to the same degree. Should i reapply parafilm or just let them be. I did two side cleft grafts and i have been pinching the buds near the top of the canopy. Ill make sure to give the lower buds a pinch. Thanks. With mid 90 degree weather when can i expect to see some action (if any) on the graft?

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 02, 2019, 09:31:25 AM »
I grafted Lemon Zest onto a Manila seedling back in late April....it just threw out its first flush of leaves maybe a month ago. So it was green without much action for 1.5 months. Also grafted 2 sweet tart scions in late May and the buds are just now pushing thru the buddy tape. I don’t put a brown paper bag/plastic bag or anything to protect the scions but I am thinking of changing that up to see if I get results faster than waiting 2 months.

Good to know. Were the scions buds swollen when removed from the tree?

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: August 01, 2019, 07:35:55 PM »
I ended up grafting the two scions onto rootstock on july 15th. Both scions are still green but the buds havent began to push. Is it normal for no activity to occur after more than two weeks?

11
Buttercream on turp



Sweetart on turp


Lemon zest on manila






I was supposed to have more mango fruits but tons of mango drops due to the person that i asked to water, watered every 3 days on a 100 plus temps for about close to a month (when I was on vacation in the Philippines).


I dont care what people has to say such as: oh ur trees are too young carry a fruit, it will stunt it etc etc etc.

Unsolicited advice arent welcome. :)

More pics to follow such as kathy, os, m4 & etc.

Do you think this person watered too often or not enough?

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 22, 2019, 07:15:50 PM »
I did a throwaway graft so I could take some pictures.
Its a variety I wont keep on this tree even if it takes and I did not wrap the scion.  With the disclaimers out of the way, this is what I was trying to explain.

First the root stock is a mature tree that happens to have some CAC branches with thin but hardened shoot.  In this case it is hardened and stiff enough that I did not need a splint.  Your seedling may not be in that situation.

I took a branch, not prepped from a tree I was going to cut back (2nd year of a 3 year topwork exercise removing a third of the canopy each year)

The first two pictures below is how I made the cuts on the scion.
Notice one side flat, almost like a veneer graft and the other deep.  The flat side is about the width of the shoot on the root stock.



Next is the cut I made on the rootstock shoot.  Almost to the halfway point to get as much width as possible.  Note if this fails, I have lots of branches.  Were this my only site, I would cut only to about a third of the diameter.



The next two show the scion next to the shoot.  Notice the cut on the flat side is about the same as the width of the shoot and the cut on the slanted side is much wider bt not as long.



A quick test fitting and a little wrap to hold it in place long enough to take a shot.  Notice it stays in by itself, no support.  The scion is clearly wider as you can see.
Note the 3rd and 4th images, they show the slanted side and while I pushed the flap to one side as much as I could I am not counting on cambium contact along the edge but if you notice, I cut the flap long enough that it crosses the arc at the top so there is a chance, however remote that I may get contact on this side of the scion.  The other side, the flat side though is what I am banking on.  It is a close match and the chances of cambium contact is higher.

 

Wrapped up and a clothespin to secure in place.



Were this a graft I really wanted, the scion will be prepped and will be wrapped to prevent moisture loss.  In this case I will just place a bag over it.

You take a shot and share your pictures. Worst case you will have two high likelihood on your pencil thich shoots and two fair shots on the thinner shoots. 
One more thing, I did not remove the tip of the shoot.  In a graft I want I will but will leave some leafs on, jut remove the terminal bud and a couple of leaves.

One last thing, I saw Adam (Flying Fox Fruit) do this thing where he makes a little H with buddy tape and uses it to seal the gap between the scion and rootstock to minimize moisture going into the graft (see 6:40 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIx-kvKykec&t=756s).  I often will do that with these side clefts.  I don't know if it helps or not but I liked the idea and adopted it.

Got a massive heatwave coming so ill probably wait a week or two.  But thanks for clearing it up i have a much better understanding on how to do it. What kind of success do you get with this type of graft?


13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 22, 2019, 05:11:45 PM »
Thanks. Can a similar method be applied to older rootstock? Im trying to create a cocktail tree for fun. The mango is a manila seedling from home depot with 4 nice scaffolds. 2 of the scaffolds are pencil thick and the other two are noticeably thinner.

The rootstock seems not ready yet. Had it flowered yet? If not wait until flowered then graft. Grafting too early and the tree will be very slow growing.

Its a hd manila seedling i got to make a cocktail tree for fun.

14
Its not necessary to do anything special with mango seeds.  Just plant them in a pot or in ground under 1" of soil and keep the dirt wetted. 

Just lay it flat like this and then cover with 1" dirt.  A week later you have new trees.



Going by the pic he does.


Do you take them out of their husks?

15
Is there a good write up or guide for starting mango seeds?

Im currently starting a batch of ataulfo and kent seeds. Ive never had the success (as of now I have root growth from 100% of the seeds in about 7 days) with other methods. Using the plastic wrap is more useful because the inorganic material wont mold. Ive done the moist paper towel and it works but ive had lots of trouble with mold.  I got the idea from
https://youtu.be/Rwfn5BmaLdw . If you are doing 1 or 2 seeds you might want to follow his method completely but if you are going a lot of seeds and space is an issue the method im using might be better.


Materials
Mango with viable seed (has not been cold treated or sterilized) my seeds were hot water treated from mexico
Hydrogen Peroxide
Water
Spray bottle
Bowl
Ziploc sandwich bag
Box

Procedure:
1) remove mango seed from husk
2) combine 1:1 ratio of hydrogen peroxide (3% solution) with water in a bowl
3) add mango seed allow 24hrs
4) rinse mango seed in water
5) take plastic wrap and create a ring. Fit ring over the mango seed.
6) take plastic wrap and a 1. 5” diameter length that covers the bottom of the sandwich bag
7) lay length of plastic wrap at the bottom of sandwich bag
8 ) lay mango seed with plastic ring on the plastic wrap taking care to orient the seed correctly
9) spray with water a couple times.
10) seal bag and put in box
11) close box to keep out of sunlight
12) keep in a warm place with no sunlight/light
13) check them after 3 days to check for rot and any initial root development the bags should not show condensation

You should have root growth by 10 days.




16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 22, 2019, 12:32:27 AM »
Not exactly, with a side cleft you don't have an even wedge anyway.  There is the side that is joined to your mail rootstock which is longer and cut to match the cut on the rootstock.  Then there is the other side, usually shorter which the flap covers.
With a thin rootstock, the part that joins to the rootstock is almost like a veneer cut, really thin, just enough to expose the cambium no wider than your rootstock.  The back side is a steeper cut that goes all the way across your scion.

I will look for a picture online or do a throwaway graft in the next few days and take some pictures.

Thanks. Pics would be helpful.

17
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 21, 2019, 05:03:18 PM »
You may also want to consider bud grafting. It is a more difficult graft with a much lower success rate, for me at least, but you can use pretty small rootstocks.

Another thing you can do is to graft one scion onto two branches, similar to double rootstock grafting.

Simon

I was considering bud grafting but i ve only had one successful bud graft (inverted T) on citrus. My knife skills leave something to be desired. If the budwood is too big i might have to go this route. Thanks.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 20, 2019, 07:40:35 PM »
Thanks. The cleft graft has been my go to graft with all deciduous trees but for some reason i have only had 1 successful cleft graft with mangoes. Side cleft grafts i have had better success. Having a hard time picturing an off center cut on the scion. Does that mean that the V shaped cut will lopsided with a shallower cut on the side that fuse with the rootstock?

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 20, 2019, 01:11:31 PM »
Thanks. Can a similar method be applied to older rootstock? Im trying to create a cocktail tree for fun. The mango is a manila seedling from home depot with 4 nice scaffolds. 2 of the scaffolds are pencil thick and the other two are noticeably thinner.

20
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Thinner Mango Rootstock than budwood
« on: July 20, 2019, 10:49:59 AM »
Is there any successful grafting technique used when the rootstock has a  smaller diameter than the budwood?

Tried searching the forum but couldnt find anything.
Thanks.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango Bud selection
« on: July 13, 2019, 06:04:57 PM »
Yes, both flushes are ready to use.

I thought the buds in the first pic were not ready but this is why this forum is such a wealth of knowledge. Now ill have two chances to succeed. Thanks.

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mango Bud selection
« on: July 13, 2019, 10:24:01 AM »
I recently prepared mango budwood to graft by cutting off leaves. It seems that the growth under the prepared section is ready to graft. Should i take the section under the prepared section? Or wait until/if the prepared section buds swell? Is the bottom section ready to be used?

“Prepared section”



Lower section










Thanks.

23
In early spring I put out an open invitation for a mango tasting in July. The date of the tasting is July 17th at 1pm. I have a list of 30 ppl 4 reserve they must RSVP by Friday July 5th as well as prepay yr mango bag. Those who have my number text me to rsvp those who don’t PM in this forum.
Frank

Do you have to be part of the tasting to participate in the tree sale? Im looking for a lemon zest (or cotton candy, parsons, señorita) mango tree. As well as jalisco red guava. Also looking for mango scions. Thanks.

24
I'm trying to summarize my best approach for growing another mango tree here in Costa Mesa. From reading through this thread, I think I understand that the best approach is to plant a manila/ataulfo seed in the ground and let it sprout and grow. Then either do a graft when it is 1 to 2 years old, or wait until it is about 4 years old and top work the tree with the desired cultivar.  This practice will develop better root structure for long-term benefit.

My question is about the grafting part. As a newbie to grafting, if I get a 50% success rate with my grafting process, there is a pretty high probability of failing and losing my 2- to 4-year old seedling. I don't mind having a long-term project, but want to avoid having to start over from scratch each time one fails. In order to maximize my potential for success, would it be feasible to plant 2 to 4 seedlings very close together (maybe 1' to 2' spacing) in the ground (in the location where I want my tree to be) and going all the way through the grafting (or top-work) process to make sure it succeeds, and then removing all but the strongest tree? Or would the roots from the trees all mutually inhibit each other's development, thus nullifying any potential gains? Should I just stick with planting the seeds in pots, doing the grafting while still in the pots, and then transplanting to the ground after I know that the grafting was successful?

Clay

You wouldnt have to start over as long as the rootstock is healthy.it would likely send out new branches somewhere below the failed graft.

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2019 soCal weather
« on: June 10, 2019, 11:12:06 AM »
We reached 95 it’s about time after a cold winter and very mild spring. Your lemon zest is loaded, great job Gonz.

My mangos havent been pushing growth (they have had swollen buds for at least three weeks) at all during 2019 i suspect it is because of the very mild weather. It seems peaches nectarines and plums loved 2018 winter and 2019 spring, they are loaded. Even after thinning 80% of the blooms/fruit i still had to prop up branches due to heavy fruit load.

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