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Messages - MANGOSCOPE

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Birds
« on: February 03, 2021, 02:15:40 PM »
Multi-size anti-bird netting, bird nets work for me from ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=BIRD+NET&_sacat=0

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian mango with commercial potential
« on: January 20, 2021, 12:31:58 PM »
Which Indian cultivar has potential be a commercial success in US market considering flavour, size , shelf life of fruit?


Propagating 15 Indian Cultivars so far and watched them closely in South Florida conditions for last few years, my take would be Amrapalli and Kesar. They're way superior than the Ataulfo mangos in flavor profile found in American Supermarkets from Mexico, in the same size spectrum.
Kesar could be replaced with Jumbo Kesar for the size aspect, otherwise Kesar and jumbo kesar have the same Flavor profile.

These two cultivars are productive, manifest slow growth habit which leads to have a manageable tree, good to very good disease resistance, didn't suffer  any MBBS in last couple of years. They do have a very good shelf life. Sonpari(not a commercial variety in India) could have been a good contender in every dept. except for disease resistance if it didn't have Mango bacterial black spot here in South Florida. I'll follow up on Sonpari.

I do have few Indian commercial varieties like Himsagar and langra which yet to enter this platform. Time will say what they put together. Please check my other thread for the success rate of Indian Cultivars in South Florida. They could exhibit better results elsewhere in US.
Thank you very much for your reply.
 In India , Kesar or Jumbo Kesar is more feasible commercial option as it is early maturing in March, April. Also Indian people know Kesar cultivar. So it fetches good price in Indian market also. Amrapali and sonpari are not known to 95% indians. Also these are very late cultivars (june). Early mansoon rain can damage the fruits.
In india Alphanso is main commercial cultivar. It is perfect mango except it has spongy tissue problem. So screening fruits with 2.5 % salt solution is time consuming process.
Dasheri is at par with alphanso in taste.
I personally like taste of Payree mango. It is fibrous and have lesser shelf life. So can not be exported.
Among Kesar, amrapali and sonpari, which one has better taste according to you?


Alphoso and Dussehri(aka dasheri or dashehari) didn't do well in SoFl. I did try Paheri(aka Pairi) in India which is an exellent variety. Neither I tried it nor I grow this cultivar in SoFl.

I have the White Piri Mango tree in my collection which is from Hawaii. Lot of people hypothesize that it could be from Indian paheri which could be synonymous to Jamaican Bombay(not the Bombay green from India).
White Piri is also an excellent cultivar, well adopted in Florida conditions. White piri doesn't have a well defined sinus and a pointed, also little elevated beak like the Indian Paheri where Jamaican Bombay is very close to Indian Paheri morphologically.

Amrapalli(one of the commercial varieties),Kesar and Sonpari are the cream of the crops in India having different flavor profiles. Here in SoFl we don't have that luxury to go by the cultivars and expect 100% because of the conditions. But we do have some excellent Florida grown mangos can outmatch the top-notch varieties around the world.

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Indian mango with commercial potential
« on: January 19, 2021, 04:40:42 PM »
Which Indian cultivar has potential be a commercial success in US market considering flavour, size , shelf life of fruit?


Propagating 15 Indian Cultivars so far and watched them closely in South Florida conditions for last few years, my take would be Amrapalli and Kesar. They're way superior than the Ataulfo mangos in flavor profile found in American Supermarkets from Mexico, in the same size spectrum.
Kesar could be replaced with Jumbo Kesar for the size aspect, otherwise Kesar and jumbo kesar have the same Flavor profile.

These two cultivars are productive, manifest slow growth habit which leads to have a manageable tree, good to very good disease resistance, didn't suffer  any MBBS in last couple of years. They do have a very good shelf life. Sonpari(not a commercial variety in India) could have been a good contender in every dept. except for disease resistance if it didn't have Mango bacterial black spot here in South Florida. I'll follow up on Sonpari.

I do have few Indian commercial varieties like Himsagar and langra which yet to enter this platform. Time will say what they put together. Please check my other thread for the success rate of Indian Cultivars in South Florida. They could exhibit better results elsewhere in US.

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2021 Lychee Season
« on: January 14, 2021, 02:14:20 PM »
Did you know if a theoretical lychee addict with unlimited time and resources wanted to chase fresh lychees over the globe they wouldn't be able to get them in April and September.If they landed in Australia in October and chased the season south along the east coast until the end of March then flew to say Florida or Texas it would be May before they could get any.Then if they winged to Asia for the start of June and chased the season north, by September they would run out. I may be wrong but it looks like the emdless lychee season is not possible.

Unless, you've a year round variety like mangos, seemingly, we're not there yet...

5
Do you have an opinion on Ambika? How is it regarded on the subcontinent. Mostly interested in taste then disease resistance :)

Ambika is another hybrid mango I taste test in City of Lucknow, India in 2018. I haven't tried this cultivar in the Florida yet. It is a medium to large mango. It weighs around 1-1.5lbs. Turns yellow with red blush when ripe. It is sweet, aromatic and clean mango. it doesn't have all the attributes from its parents. What I heard from a mango connoisseur that it has a greenish blue mango with purple tinge when it is unripe, probably, it got that blue hue from its grand parent Neelam. But I think Arunika is better in flavor profile even though it is a bit on the smaller side.

6
What exactly do the percentages mean?

It would be the success rate in % for non-native mangos in South Florida conditions.
It would include growth habit, disease resistance of the trees and taste profile of the fruits.


7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is Palmer mango a good tree to plant?
« on: January 13, 2021, 10:34:00 PM »
Palmer and Tommy Atkins.

8
Very interesting. I wonder how some of the new florida cultivars are compared in other parts of the world, in similar, non-native conditions? I guess time will tell. Maybe there is a good crossover yet to be found.


In fact, I tried few Old Floridian cultivars in their non-native conditions back in  2006. Surprisingly, they did really really good in subcontinent conditions.
I tried  Bailey's Marvel, Beverly, Carrie and Dot. Thanks for raising that point out and for me it is a curiosity to find the unknown to make it known.

9
What about Neelam?

I completely, forgot about Neelam. Actually, that was my first Indian variety I collected before Alphonso. I have to say that it did the best among all the subcontinent cultivars in my yard except for it's patchy sign of Anthracnose  on the skin and  they coalesce in late Oct when I have 2 crops. The tree is far away from the huge lake in my backyard. It did, I would say, same as or better than Sonpari.

10
I propagated the following  cultivars in South Florida conditions and almost each and every variety failed to retain their exotic flavor,complexity, spiciness and °brix, compared to their country of origin. I came up with an inference for each variety I tried in Florida in percentages, close to their native conditions. And of course, this is my own assessment for these cultivars growing in Florida. It is worth to make mention that I tried all of them in both parts of the world. Except, for my Alphonso scion which was collected from Pine Island Nursery(Homestead, Miami) in late 90's and others were obtained from their country of origin.

‌Alphonso-50%
‌Imam pasand-70%
‌Amrapalli-70%
‌Anwar Ratool-40%
‌Banganpalli-50-60%
‌Chaunsa-40%
‌Dussehri-50%
‌Fazli-expecting bloom in 2021
‌Gopalbhog-60%
‌Gourmoti-60%
‌Haribhanga-60%
‌Himsagar-expecting bloom in 2021
‌Jahangir-60%
‌Kesar-70%
‌Langra and it's phenotypes-expecting bloom in 2021
‌Malda-expecting bloom in 2021
‌Mallika-60%
‌Sindhri-not yet bloomed
‌Sonpari-80%

They definitely, could show way better results where the conditions match or close to their original environment in most southern part of continental USA or in latin America. Those who have propagated these cultivars they can chime in to share their first hand experience.

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Himsagar Lehore. Any fans of this variety
« on: January 05, 2021, 05:15:46 PM »


I have the Himasagar from Zills as well. It indeed is very productive and the tree stays small. I like the fruit as well. Excited to know that you have the real Himasagar from West Bengal; I have read that the fruit is so good that all the mangoes are eaten by people in the region, leaving nothing for export. :) Just curious, where did you get the tree, or the budwood?

I live in Coral Springs. Would love to get budwood from your tree after fruiting season. 

 




I got my budwood from Murshidabad, India. My friend actually got few scions but only one survived during the grafting process in that winter. I would love to share budwood once it shows its true flavor!


12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Himsagar Lehore. Any fans of this variety
« on: January 05, 2021, 01:07:56 PM »
Is anyone growing this?  Is this a candidate for container Growers? I have an acquaintance down in South Florida who likes this variety and has recommended that I graft into my collection. What are the growth characteristics of the tree and is the flavor somewhat unique? :)

I got Himsagar Lahore in a 3 gallon pot from ZHPP 6 years ago hoping that I would experience a supreme cultivar in south Florida. I let it grow for one year and then transplanted into a 5 gallon pot. It stayed there for a year and during the next mango season, I thinned fruits and left 3 mangos on the tree. It was mid July I harvested them. They were oblong and turned yellow on the stem end. when I saw the fruit shape, I started doubting that it is not the real deal.

I thought in the beginning that  it’s taste might disappoint me like other subcontinent varieties but still I would be content with a little inferior quality of Himsagar, due to SoFla condition. It disappointed me further. It is not the fruit I anticipated for long. It is a  different cultivar probably, collected by many from USDA germ plasm.

I thought how in the world fruit morphology can change that fast! I do understand that morphological variations of fruits such as shape and size, and color are a result of adaptive evolution.

Anyway, with a broken heart I let it ripe in my garage for 7 days. I was so eagerly waiting for this day to cut open and taste test my first Himsagar. It disappointed for a short while. After brought it from my garage, I saw that  It turned completely yellow, cut open  tried a slice of yellow flesh which was very sweet, juicy, little creamy and  with high TSS% coupled with an acid component to balance it out.  I immediately, thought that it was a mislabeled Indochinese variant. Very smooth texture with a complex almost  “Sweet Tart” mango flavor. I ate all 3 mangos and tried to comprehend the multifaceted inherent flavor.
I transplant the tree again to a 25 gal container and watched it carefully. Growth habit is medium, it formed a dense canopy after a routine pruning. Very productive variety. Fruit size is small to medium in containers. It can continue to grow in the same 25 gal container at least for another 2-3 years.

Now, I’ve the real Himsagar variety in my collection. It is an excellent variety from West Bengal, India where it is originated. Lot of mango enthusiasts  and mango connoisseurs in that region compare this cultivar with Alphonso. And on a humble note, they say it is better than the king of mangos(Alphonso). It is also a leading variety in Bangladesh where they have 2 other variants, taste of which are same but differ in size like kesar and jumbo kesar. They often confuse  Khirsapat mango with Himsagar. The actual color remains green to   greenish yellow when it ripens. There is no fiber. Flesh turns deep yellow to orange. TSS% around 23 the ones I taste tested there. Flavor is in the Indian Alphonso group with light hint of mixed fruits.
My original Himsagar bloomed 2019 for the first time. Didn’t let the fruit grow then. Hopefully, It will bloom after the ongoing second cold spell in SoFla. Anticipating on the overall growth of this outstanding mango.

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Amrapali Mango
« on: January 01, 2021, 11:19:20 AM »
In your assessment would you say it is more picker friendly then Malika. As in when and how long to let it set for Peak flavor.

Do you think the soil may effect  flavor profile?


When I had my Mallika tree and had fruits on it I waited till the fruits break color to a little hue of yellow on the green skin. Then I used to harvest them and put on the counter top for 7-12 days depending on the maturity and surface area of that particular fruit for a good color change to pale yellow. Don't let it ripe all the way. I used  to eat them when it was still little giving and not became completely yellow. Its like yellow and green mixed together and still little giving. It is supposed to be the right way to ripen this variety. I also, tried the Indian way, where I harvested my fruits mature green and waited for the color change. The eating quality of this fruit completely, depends on when you harvest(has to be in maturity. "when to pick mangos" That would be another topic) and how long and how you ripen this Mallika.
In India, it is a different story how they ripen Mallika where they pick them mature green and put them in a worm shady place in a cardboard box or laying them on the floor on top of thick layer of hays. Camel dung theory is obsolete these days.

Some claim that it doesn't make any difference if you let it ripe on the tree. But in general, mangos need to be harvested mature green when they show the signs of maturity and develop the right "Percent Brix" specially the Indian Cultivars.

Compared to Mallika, Amrapalli is on the little dwarf side, doesn't have the lanky limbs, precocious(like pickering but it is way superior to it)),Cantaloupe melon flavor is really low which was obtained from Neelam(In Mallika the female parent is Neelam),don't get musty and sometimes don't put forth carrot flavor when it is more ripe.

Some fruit enthusiasts, mango connoisseurs claim their Mallika to be excellent. Maybe, they got lucky having high humidity, less rain and a balanced soil where they have an optimum soil conditions and the soil pH ranges between 6.0-7.0. There is no problem with micronutrient absorption specially Iron and Manganese and macro like phosphorus. In Alkaline conditions, N,K and S absorption are near ok except for P which will react with Ca and Mg in ionic level and will become less soluble. On the contrary, at acidic pH value, P ion will react with Al and Fe to form less soluble compounds.

My soil is little over 7 where I tried to correct that with peat moss and sulfur. Peat moss helps the soil hold nutrients by increasing what is called the CEC or "cation exchange capacity". Then I tried the chelated form of micronutrients until the alkalinity(high pH) went little down.

Anyways, a delicious mango must have few common attributes like signature mango flavor profile(mango flavor all the way being little resinous and/or piney, doesn't matter if it is Chinese, Indochinese or a  south east Asian variety), very good shelf life, very good texture (fiber less and creamy would be appreciated),good color inside and outside, high TSS%(may balance out with any tartness; super sweetness may not be a denominator where there are other characteristics in the flavor spectrum). One should not mind if the specimen has been enhanced with coconut, citrus, melon,
and peach flavor.

I do understand, that Mallika falls under these broad spectrum of flavor profiles in its native environment(India). Unfortunately, due to the conditions in western hemisphere(soil, humidity and rain) it turned into a mediocre mango where(for those who've taste tested these two cultivars in both parts of the world) Amrapalli(small  to medium sized) a little bit better in SoFL conditions retaining 60-70% of its original flavors compared to the Indian version.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question hopefully I didn't come across as being snarky. From what you said I think that Malika performs better in Central Florida. We receive about 12 in less annual rainfall than South Florida but we have higher humidity. The reason I mentioned soil because when I think of India I think of very rich fertile soil. I am blessed to have a silty loam with a clay component here in Osceola County that trees really seem to love. That may be why my Malika taste so excellent. We wait for the first stripe of yellow and a yellow ring around the stem then we pick put it in a cardboard box for 7 to 10 days. We call that Finney for finish in Creole. I have read  other Forum members who have multiple Groves say that a variety can taste different in each Groove that  maybe only 20 miles apart. Others have said that Malika can sometimes just have an off year but fortunately that has not happened to me. Checking my notes I see where I plan on grafting  some Ambika to Malika and  Amrapila to the Neelam . Just thinking and talking of mangoes brings me much joy thanks so much :)





You're welcome. You most definitely have better soil than us where you've silty loam with some clay component to it which makes it even better. Silty clay loam is very fertile.

Alluvial soil is the largest soil type in India. It  covers more than 45% of Indian plane. They're formed by the sediment deposition mostly  silt, by the three major rivers.

Over 60" of annual rain in  Broward county is one of the leading cause of leaching out all the micronutrients from our soil and on top of that when  it is a bit alkaline/acidic, there are loss of microorganisms as well.

Indian subcontinent has their monsoon during the month of June to Sept/Oct when over 90% of mangos  are harvested. On the contrary, South Florida has most rain falls in the month April to June when mangos are piling up sugars and flavors. Subsequently, sugars and flavors are washed out. That is why, lot of mango lovers will talk about their 2nd or 3rd crops little bit better when these varieties at least get over 15-20 days window to accumulate sugars and flavors after the heavy downpour.

I rarely heard about an off year for any cultivar in Indian subcontinent other than they're infested with MBBS, mango seed weevil, fruit cracking, major disaster with Anthracnose and scab all over the skin leading to fruit discoloration.
In contrast to anthracnose, the scab lesions do not expand after harvest, nor develop into a rot.
However, severely scarred fruit will show post-harvest anthracnose rot earlier than non-scarred fruit.
Anyways, Good to know that you love thinking and talking about mangos. Keep it up.
 


14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Amrapali Mango
« on: December 31, 2020, 03:54:28 PM »
In your assessment would you say it is more picker friendly then Malika. As in when and how long to let it set for Peak flavor.

Do you think the soil may effect  flavor profile?


When I had my Mallika tree and had fruits on it I waited till the fruits break color to a little hue of yellow on the green skin. Then I used to harvest them and put on the counter top for 7-12 days depending on the maturity and surface area of that particular fruit for a good color change to pale yellow. Don't let it ripe all the way. I used  to eat them when it was still little giving and not became completely yellow. Its like yellow and green mixed together and still little giving. It is supposed to be the right way to ripen this variety. I also, tried the Indian way, where I harvested my fruits mature green and waited for the color change. The eating quality of this fruit completely, depends on when you harvest(has to be in maturity. "when to pick mangos" That would be another topic) and how long and how you ripen this Mallika.
In India, it is a different story how they ripen Mallika where they pick them mature green and put them in a worm shady place in a cardboard box or laying them on the floor on top of thick layer of hays. Camel dung theory is obsolete these days.

Some claim that it doesn't make any difference if you let it ripe on the tree. But in general, mangos need to be harvested mature green when they show the signs of maturity and develop the right "Percent Brix" specially the Indian Cultivars.

Compared to Mallika, Amrapalli is on the little dwarf side, doesn't have the lanky limbs, precocious(like pickering but it is way superior to it)),Cantaloupe melon flavor is really low which was obtained from Neelam(In Mallika the female parent is Neelam),don't get musty and sometimes don't put forth carrot flavor when it is more ripe.

Some fruit enthusiasts, mango connoisseurs claim their Mallika to be excellent. Maybe, they got lucky having high humidity, less rain and a balanced soil where they have an optimum soil conditions and the soil pH ranges between 6.0-7.0. There is no problem with micronutrient absorption specially Iron and Manganese and macro like phosphorus. In Alkaline conditions, N,K and S absorption are near ok except for P which will react with Ca and Mg in ionic level and will become less soluble. On the contrary, at acidic pH value, P ion will react with Al and Fe to form less soluble compounds.

My soil is little over 7 where I tried to correct that with peat moss and sulfur. Peat moss helps the soil hold nutrients by increasing what is called the CEC or "cation exchange capacity". Then I tried the chelated form of micronutrients until the alkalinity(high pH) went little down.

Anyways, a delicious mango must have few common attributes like signature mango flavor profile(mango flavor all the way being little resinous and/or piney, doesn't matter if it is Chinese, Indochinese or a  south east Asian variety), very good shelf life, very good texture (fiber less and creamy would be appreciated),good color inside and outside, high TSS%(may balance out with any tartness; super sweetness may not be a denominator where there are other characteristics in the flavor spectrum). One should not mind if the specimen has been enhanced with coconut, citrus, melon,
and peach flavor.

I do understand, that Mallika falls under these broad spectrum of flavor profiles in its native environment(India). Unfortunately, due to the conditions in western hemisphere(soil, humidity and rain) it turned into a mediocre mango where(for those who've taste tested these two cultivars in both parts of the world) Amrapalli(small  to medium sized) a little bit better in SoFL conditions retaining 60-70% of its original flavors compared to the Indian version.


15
So after a few seasons to make sure it wasn't just a fluke im excited to report that I have stumbled upon a veriety that produces delicious mangos in winter. It has done so for several seasons in a row, not a motherload of them but enough to warrant a real evaluation and a determination of whether it is a new or forgotten veriety.

The tree is likely between 30 and 40 years old, and 30 pluss feet tall. planted in the yard of a home built in the early 60's in merritt island, the current owner who has lived at the property for 8 years and was not passed on any info on the tree.

The tree produces a bountiful summer crop without being sprayed, some anthrcnose susceptibility but the skin seems to keep it out of the flesh. The summer crop is certainly more flavorful but the winter crop is still fantastic. I would put it in the classic sweet profile with fiber comparable to certain commercial veriety but not objectionable. 

I will continue to update with an in depth evaluation as the season unfolds. Unfortunately there are no more fruit on the tree this winter, but I will post pictures and keep track of its progress.



In Florida, there are no true year round mangos. The ones we've are of inferior quality, size and flavor profile. The hype about the miracle mango(Chocanon) disappointed me. Fruit size is small, scarce production, flavor profile is not at all that great compared to the ones I've tasted in Thailand.
I grafted a limb of my 15 year old Okrung with catimon(Katimon) variety 2 years ago. This is a cultivar is truly year round (fruits 3 times a year) and also a premium quality mango in Philippines and Thailand. 
I'm hoping, against my hope that it would bloom this year.Anticipating for that real moment when I would find that this cultivar performs the same, where it is obtained from, in Florida.



millionaire-through-cultivation-year-long-mango-1657543

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSW2Rwx31cW6YxP0pJmSzPc-QthN1gM6e_Wuw&usqp=CAU

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvhtFLDi4FXNd4N9AuTUmzkiy_TtG7VmL89RVFthdrmvS3jr_in5UyjJ1GlqDx0d24cti72JzrKx-SSNg-JIsKlpLnr3rUh63AHg&usqp=CAU&ec=45750088



16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Amrapali Mango
« on: December 30, 2020, 02:17:47 PM »
I rencently planted an Amrapali mango. Has anybody come across this cultivar? I have not tasted it, I only had the chance to see one unripe fruit:



This is my new plant:





Amrapalli is one of the premium Hybrid mango in South east Asia derived from
Dasheri (Dashahari, Dusheri also called) and Neelam. Mallika is also come from the same parent where they switched the pollinating parents.
You can't justify the flavor of Amrapalli with citrus, melon and honey, it has something unique which Mallika is missing. Definitely, it doesn't have the carrot flavor Mallika exerts. And for Mallika, no matter what you do harvesting them in SoFLa and SoCal green or ripe, its not even close to its counterpart in Indian subcontinent. But in western hemisphere, Mallika's productivity is outstanding. I top worked my Mallika and Alfonso years ago.
The flesh of Amrapalli is deep orange, juicy, few fibers  under the skin and intensely sweet. There is no sub acid component to it. It is a super sweet, aromatic, spicy,    little piney and a complex flavor all the way. The TSS% is close to 25.
Keep in mind that this phenomenal mango shows those attributes only in Indian Subcontinent (Bangladesh, India and Pakistan). When It comes to Florida condition, surely, it is missing those flavor profiles due heavy rain from late April to June. I've been propagating the variety for last 5 years and had fruit in preceding 2 years. My close observation while propagating this cultivar is that it doesn't like rain that much, the condition where it derived from. I taste tested this variety all over the Indian Subcontinent and also in Florida. I can definitely, conclude with the inference that it still retains 60-70% of the flavor profile in SoFla. Perhaps, it might be little better in SoCal for not having that much rain there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcEV4iCPW58


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