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Messages - Mangifera08

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1

I don't know how flowering time is regulated in the genes in loquat and what determines if a cross has the flowering time of either one of the parents or a different time altogether, but I wouldn't assume that all crosses would flower in e.g. February as that is the middle between the parents. If that were true, then creating the Spring Blossoms hybrid would not have worked in the first place.

We only want one trait from E. bengalensis, which is its spring-blooming habit. It's less hardy than E. japonica and I don't know if it produces desireable fruit. A backcross with E. japonica would ensure good edibility, better hardiness, and less unrelated E. bengalensis genes. In the offspring between the hybrid and E. japonica there would surely be winter-blooming plants, but the question is if there are still some that flower in the spring. Those would be superior plants, which are even closer to E. japonica while still keeping the valuable spring-blooming habit.

You could be right. Most of them would probably flower in between, but there could be some that flower at a different time.
This could work out. As you said, the fruits, would be even better than from the Spring Blossoms hybrid, because the resulting hybrid would have less E. bengalensis genes.

I would not cross the hybrid with other wild relatives which further decreases edibility and deviates from regular loquat. A complex hybrid with many different species and a majority of wild genes doesn't seem neccessary when a first generation hybrid with E. japonica already has the spring-blooming trait. I'd rather cross a northern E. japonica cultivar with E. fragrans, E. elliptica or E. petiolata if I have access to those.

I have to agree totally. Yes, crossing a nothern E. japonica cultivar with one of the spring blooming cold hardier species, seems to be a far better idea.

I also found sources that state that E. bengalensis flowers in the winter, but according to the paper, they chose E. bengalensis as a hybrid partner for E. japonica particulary because it flowers in the spring. I don't know why e.g. Flora of China states that they flower in the winter... ???

The information about flowering/fruiting of different Eriobotrya species is very confusing. I thought for example that E. japonica always flowers in winter, but Flora of China says that E. japonica flowers in June (and fruits Jul-Aug). I don`t know exactly why, but it seems that the same species in China has a completely other flowering (and fruiting) time in Europe or America. Additonally there comes a difference in flowering time, depending on the (hardiness) zone. The same species probably flowers earlier in the warmer areas of its range. But I don`t think that the zone difference is the only reason for the difference in flowering (,fruiting) time. Therefore it could be, or more likely has to be that other Eriobotrya species planted here, also flower at a different time than Flora of China says.

2
I also think it`s Mangifera quadrifida. On this website: http://www.kujie2.com/wordless-wednesday/buah-asam-kumbang.html, M. quadrifida is called Buah Asam (Kumbang). Here some information about M. quadrifida http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Mangifera+quadrifida, it should have a prune-like smell. Or it could be some rare Mangifera species, of wich there are no pictures or information on the internet. I hope I could help at least a bit. 

3
@Patanax
Yes, maybe they would flower later if it would be to cold in march. I haven`t thought about this. But maybe if there would be a warm and sunny period for a few weeks in march, they would think: „Oh, the winter is over, the cold temperatures are gone”, and would start flowering. These flowers would then get completely destroyed, when the warmer weeks would be over, and it would get cold again.
Yes, the hardiness would be the next difficulty. This hybrid is maybe not hardy enough. (Since it`s probably a cross of a subtropical/southern group cultivar with E. bengalensis). Backcrossing with E. japonica is maybe not such a good idea, because all E. japonica flower in winter. So the cross would probably flower in between the two parents, therefore in February or so. (The flowering time would be developed in the false direction). On the opposite a backcross with E. fragrans or E. elliptica would be a good idea. (By the way, what do you mean with: „It would also be interesting to try a similar cross with one of the cold-hardier spring-blooming species”? Do you mean to cross E. japonica with one of the cold hardy species, or do you mean to cross the Spring Blossoms hybrid (japonica x bengalensis) with one of the cold hardy species?)
And one last question, do you know how he was able to accomplish that his hybrid flowers in march? (Since E. bengalensis flowers Nov-Feb, and E. japonica normally flowers in late autumn or winter). Did he selected the hybrids for late blooming?

@mikkel thank you for your information, E. fulvicoma (zone 10) is even less hardier then E. bengalensis (zone 9), but the late flowering is definitely a trade, that makes this species very attractive for crossing with other species.
 

4
So I wrote the corresponding author of the paper "Identification of interspecific hybrids between loquat (E. japonica) and bengal loquat (E. bengalensis)" and asked him about the progress of the project. While he is already working in another area, he sent me a link to a news article.

Original: https://sichuan.scol.com.cn/yaxw/201806/56299857.html
Google Translate: https://translate.google.at/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fsichuan.scol.com.cn%2Fyaxw%2F201806%2F56299857.html

Apparently the hybrid trees mentioned in the paper have already flowered and fruited twice and produced tasty loquats. From what I've understood via Google/Bing Translate, they flower in March (the text also mentions April?) and produce fruit in June. Their current temporary cultivar name is "Spring Blossoms" loquat ('春花'枇杷) and the trees are located at the scientific research park of Sichuan Agricultural University. The team is currently trying to graft them on regular loquat cultivars. Can anybody who speaks Chinese confirm (regarding April)?

So I guess there are spring-blooming loquats now :D

Wow, that sounds great! March is still to early (ad least in zone 7a), but it`s a huge step in the right direction. Thank you very much for informing you about the progress of the project.

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sapotaceae ID Assistance
« on: February 10, 2019, 06:32:54 AM »
I think Grapebush is right. It`s a Pouteria caimito/Abiu. But I would not say it looks strange or overripe. It`s just an green/unripe abiu.
Abiu can vary a lot in fruit shape. Not al abius are round.


6
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Please id this matoa-like fruit
« on: February 04, 2019, 06:53:37 AM »
Hi,
I can not see any picture. For a identification a picture would be helpful.
Probably you just forgot to add it.
Best Regards,
Mangifera08

7
Hello,
It could be Ampelocissus acapulcensis, A. erdvendbergiana, A. erdwendbergii or A. mesoamericana. All of these species occur in Mexico.

8
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Hardy cactus with edible fruit?
« on: January 17, 2019, 01:19:31 PM »
Thanks for your information, the only problem with Opuntia species are the nasty glochids, but the fruits are certainly good.
Interesting to know that the length and intensity of the summer can have an impact on the flavor of the fruit.


9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Need help with fruit identification
« on: January 16, 2019, 04:48:29 PM »
The first one is a Ficus species, but I don`t know which.

10
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Hardy cactus with edible fruit?
« on: January 08, 2019, 07:08:07 AM »
Of course I would keep the good/better tasting ones instead of the barely edible ones. But if you want to find as many good tasting cactus species as possible, you have to try all and decide. Edible simply means not poisonous. It`s important to know that all true cactus species are edible (=safe to eat), if you going to search for good tasting species.

11
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Hardy cactus with edible fruit?
« on: January 04, 2019, 01:35:55 PM »
Thanks for your information. I`ve done a lot of research myself and found out that all true cactus species are edible, of course there are some more suited for eating then others. But all are edible. So if you want to know wich cactus species produce edible fruit in your cold climate, all you have to know is which species are hardy in your zone. 
     


12
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Hardy cactus with edible fruit?
« on: December 30, 2018, 01:24:43 PM »
Very interesting, thanks for your help!

13
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Hardy cactus with edible fruit?
« on: December 30, 2018, 10:01:01 AM »
Are there are any cactus species, wich are hardy in zone 7 and produce (good), edible fruits?

14
Today I found this link on the Ourfigs forum. A very nice description of different Loquat varieties. Unfortunately it`s in Spanish.
Description of Loquat varieties (Spanish): 

[http://www.ivia.gva.es/documents/161862582/161863558/Descripción+de+variedades+de+Níspero+japonés/af2145a5-5c01-4cf4-9160-88059eb3909f

The fact sheets of the particual varieties start at page 31.
Link to post on ourfigs.com:
https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/blueberry-home/424281-loquats-trees-grafting-new-varieties-video

15
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted: Citrus reticulata 'Jiouyuezao'
« on: December 13, 2018, 03:42:33 PM »
Thank you for all of your information Radoslav, I greatly appreciate it.
 

16
Thank you very much for the screenshot, since I tried to open it with another browser, but it doesn`t work. Thanks for mentioning this page of the paper. I thought that every older loquat would do fine in zone 7, especially if it is crossed with another hardier species. (Maybe they do, if they have a very hardy crossing partner). But in case you want to breed a Eriobotrya, that is as hardy as possible, you should also choose a Loquat cultivar, which is as hardy as possible.

17
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Seedless guava
« on: December 06, 2018, 09:33:49 AM »
Papaya Tree Nursery is selling indonesian seedless guava, but unfortunately they’re in El Oro Way, Granada Hills (Southern California). http://www.papayatreenursery.com/newSite/fullPlantList.html
http://papayatreenursery.com/
I would ask them if they could send you a plant.
I also found another site (http://www.vendio.com/stores/Polynesian_Produce_Stand/item/yard-garden-outdoor-living-oth/-indonesian-seedless-guava-rar/lid=45762848) from Hawaii, wich sends to the US.

18
Tropical Fruit Online Library / tropical.theferns
« on: December 05, 2018, 06:39:39 AM »
http://tropical.theferns.info/ is a really good site about useful tropical plants (plants with edible, medicinal, or other uses).
It currently contains 11829 species. You can search for a plant by using its botanical or common name.

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pouteria fruit ID
« on: December 04, 2018, 08:20:22 AM »
I would say your guess is right, to me it also looks like Canistel (Pouteria campechiana). There is no other fruit I could think of that looks like that. Canistel fruits can be found in very different shapes.













20
Yes it seems like the individual plant at Kew is not at all hardy. But in the paper they mention:„Seeds were gathered by him at Phulchoke, to the south-southeast of Kathmandu on the road from Lalitpur, due east of Godawari.” (Which, I think is hardiness zone 8 or 9).
What I think is really strange is that it just can tolerate temperatures down to 7 °C (44,6 °F). That would be even to frost tender for zone 10. (The warmest hardiness zone in Nepal).
But how I wrote earlier, the species is distributed in different hardiness zones, even in hardiness zone 6. http://www.floraofnepal.org/onlineflora?wildcard=10149
If you take seeds from a individual in the north (hardiness zone 6), the plant should grow well in zone 7.
Thank you very much for the flowering and fruiting information for E.fragrans and petiolata, but unfortunately I cant open the first link.(That one: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200010832)

21
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted: Citrus reticulata 'Jiouyuezao'
« on: November 29, 2018, 10:04:44 AM »
Very Interesting, from what I found online Tuanianiju, Bendizao and Xingjin should be hardy until -12 °C (10,4° F).
How hardy is Zaojin?
I can not find any Citrus reticulata varieties on this chinese site. How did you write them? In chinese? Or do they understand english?

22
Nice to hear about the Eriobotrya japonica trees doing well in zone 7(a). Some resources say that they are just hardy until zone 8(a), but I think older plants will be hardy until Zone 7.
The hybrid called Eriobotrya 'Coppertone' is a hybrid between Eriobotrya deflexa and the Indian hawthorn (Rhaphiolepis indica), so not a true Eriobotrya. Coppertone is said to be cold hardy until Zone 8a, but the advantage is that the bloom is in spring. The fruits are also edible. E.deflexa is a really bad crossing partner if you want a cold hardy hybrid, because it is distributed in warm zones like 9, 10 and 11. https://books.google.at/books?id=rXTGyOlDjdoC&pg=PA515&fbclid=IwAR2gcYSS6BvPlgO1ytIFTjMpiw5bpHaxV-DJD_yWYoyHLE0rgRwb_1eYQlU#v=onepage&q&f=true
Some also say that Coppertone is a hybrid between E.japonica and Rhaphiolepsis indica. (What would be a bit better, because E.japonica is hardier).
Rhaphiolepsis indica itself is hardy until zone 7(a) or 8(a) (statements vary).
All a bit cold hardy, but nothing really hardy. A Coppertone hybrid (with E.japonica in it) could be worth a try. But if we could get our hands on species like Eriobotrya fragrans, elliptica or hookeriana, that would be a real game changer.


23
I have overlooked the flowering and fruiting time, sorry.
E.hookeriana flowers october-november and fruits march-june. Whereas E.elliptica flowers in april and fruits in june.
So E.elliptica would be the better option. Or is hookeriana better? I think it depends on how frost hardy the flowers are and if the frost risk in your area is higher from october to november or in april.
With regard to E.fragrans, I don`t know anything about flowering or fruiting time.

24
Some information about Eriobotrya elliptica and hookeriana in (Nepal):
http://www.floraofnepal.org/onlineflora?wildcard=10149
http://www.floraofnepal.org/onlineflora?wildcard=12672

And in comparison the hardiness zones of Nepal. https://davisla.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/india-pakistan-bangladesh-nepal-plant-hardiness-zone-map.jpg
Both of them can also be found in the north of the country, where the hardiness zone is 6.
So Eriobotrya elliptica, fragrans and hookeriana should be a good choice. But I have no idea when they flower and fruit.
The other problem is, where do we get those species? The area where E.fragrans occurs in zone 5 (China) is not that populated.
For the species of nepal, I wrote to a nursery in Patlekhet, Nepal, but until now they have not responded.

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Temperate Fruit & Orchard Online Library / temperate.theferns
« on: November 19, 2018, 04:36:01 PM »
http://temperate.theferns.info/ contains a huge database of useful temperate plants. The website currently contains 8152 species. Plants can be searched by using botanical or common names. A really great site with a lot of information.

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