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My 6-8 year old 20' Brogdan fruited for the first time this year holding about 25 fruit.  All was going well till a couple weeks ago when all the fruit developed 1" scab?? spots that rotted through on the lower half all in the same location.  Is this going to be an ongoing annual issue?  I know Brogdan are supposed to be thin skinned and wonder if that could be a contributing factor.  I have never sprayed any of my fruit trees and really don't want to start now.  One of the reasons I selected a Brogdan was I thought it was pretty much free of significant disease issues.  Thanks.


1. Both Carla & Cotton Candy are supposed to trump Keitt for flavor, but will their season stretch into September+?

2. Do Carla & Cotton Candy trump Honey Kiss & Lancetilla for flavor?

3. Can anyone describe Carla & Cotton Candy's flavor profile or compare them to any other common varieties?  People say CC tastes like CC, which really doesn't tell you much other than to say it tastes sweet as sugar.




The choices for very late Mangoes are somewhat limited.   The end of August often signals the end of mango season, but there are a few other varieties that hang on after the all the others are done.  There is always Keitt which is the latest of the late & deserving of yard space for that alone, but what about the others?  Lancetilla & Beverly are listed as being September mangos by PIN and Honey Kiss is supposed to be a September mango also.  All three of these varieties have good flavor, but there are subtle differences between them in flavor that is noticeable. Personal preference may be the key as neither stands out from the rest for flavor & their overall scores are very close.

1. Beverly - One of the traditional late season Zill family favorites.  These are the ones they kept for themselves at the end of the season.  Beverly has a lot going for it.  It's large, juicy, VERY good firm flesh, even ripening, mostly classic mango flavor, ripens well on the counter, etc. The ones I had were very clean without external or internal issues. PIN viewer gives it a 4 star flavor rating. What set's Beverly apart is that it does have a unique slightly "Turpentine/Asian"?? key component that some will either think adds or subtracts from it.  It's a flavor component that I have detected in Duncan, but it's much more pronounced in Beverly.  It is probably a characteristic that you would like if you grew up eating this mango so I understand why Walter Zill says his life "wouldn't be complete without a Beverly tree".  The turp/asian component is also probably something that would grow on you or that you and would come to like or notice less with time.  If you like Duncan you will like Beverly possibly even more if you like Duncan's undertones & aftertaste.  Beverly Fruit Quality Score: 8.5 - Flavor Score 7.25 

2. Honey Kiss - This has been compared to a late SMALL late Keitt with bit of honey. That is probably fairly accurate.  The "hint of honey" is similar to a touch of Nam Doc Mai flavor (in a good way). It is a smallish, juicy, semi-creamy, mild flavored mango and would probably be popular with a wide number of people.  The ones I had did suffer from some uneven ripening ala Cushman/Keitt and even had the Cushman orange ring around the outside as well as some minor jelly seed, but this didn't subtract from the overall flavor or enjoyment.  Probably it was a good thing that Walter Zill saved the original tree from his brother Gary's chainsaw.  :  )

If you like Glenn's or small late Keitt's with just a dash of NDM #4 honey flavor added than HK is probably one that you would enjoy.  For flavor it does edge out Beverly IMHO, but the flavor profiles are somewhat different and scores are close so YMMV.  HK overall Fruit Quality Score: 7.0........HK Flavor Score:  7.5

3. Lancetilla - Ok it's a freakishly large mango.  It can get the size of a football & reach 5 pounds.  It's a conversation piece & just for geeky fruit collectors and probably tastes bad or weird right?   Well that's what I thought also.  I was wrong.  PIN gives it 4 stars for flavor and I can see why.  No doubt Lancetilla gets bad reviews because it does take a long time to ripen up due to it's size and most people probably are trying them prematurely when they "look ready" but really aren't. I will concede that Lancetilla BEFORE it comes up to full flavor is a TOTAL ZERO!!  Once they fully ripen Lancetilla is VERY enjoyable eating experience.  It has been compared to a Kent for texture & flavor, and while that may be true Lancetilla is considerably better & significantly more satisfyingly enjoyable than any Kent I've had.  It has true classic mango flavor without any turp or other possibly offensive subtle flavors so it should appeal to just about anyone who like mangoes.  Lancetilla has a pleasantly subtle tart component that I haven't detected in Kent.  Out of all the September varieties I've tried Keiit, Kent, Beverly & Honey Kiss I enjoyed Lancetilla the most.  There is also something primitively satisfying about diving face first into an ice cold watermelon sized mango over the kitchen sink on a hot Florida summers day.  Despite the size of the fruit, Lancetilla is also a tree that can be controlled and kept under control.  Lancetilla gets a lot of notice because of it's size, but it may need to get more respect as possibly being the best tasting very late September mango there is.  The fruit is also very clean & would probably even be a relatively good keeper & shipper due to it's long ripening time.  I also suspect that it isn't MBBS prone like Kent, but maybe Squam can chime in on this.  Just one of these that will leave you feeling full.  Would make for great summer picnic mango fresh off the ice or to enjoy as you're slowing tubing down river.  If you are looking to add a very late mango variety give Lancetilla a try.  You might be pleasantly surprised as I was.  Just make sure you wait for them to FULLY RIPEN first.  Overall Fruit Quality Score: 9.......Overall Flavor & Texture Score 7.75+


1. Lancetilla: 7.75+
2. Honey Kiss: 7.50
3. Beverly: 7.25

Let the fights begin........... 8) 8) 8)




Disclaimer:  This is based upon the sampling of ONE large green M-4 that I tried at various stages of ripeness over several days.  Some say the one I had was picked too green and wouldn't reach full flavor. It did reach a full enough flavor over a few days I think to reach an opinion on it.  I haven't had Coconut Cream, E-4 or many of the other Coconut flavored mangoes for comparison, but some say the M-4 is supposed to be the best of the lot.  I have had Pina Colada & Pickering and M-4 I think beats those in the "exotic" coconut profile category, though I have never detected coconut in those two varieties.

After some thought the best description I can give M-4 is it's like taking a tropical Coconut Life Saver & Pineapple Life Saver and popping them both in your mouth at the same time.  It's more unique & complex than that & that may not describe it exactly, but it's the closest analogy that comes to mind.  This is the mango that should be called Pina Colada - not the other one. This is a mango that would make for a great adult RUM smoothie served in a coconut shell, pineapple slice & cherry with tiny parasol, sugar cane swizzle stick & rainbow colored flex straw (sorry California).  This would make for a great ADULT frozen drink flavor to enjoy on a cruise or in the Keys at a cabana bar served by an sexy island girl in a coconut shell top, grass skirt, lei & with a flower behind each ear.   The overall flavor is that it is unique, juicy, semi-complicated, "transporting" and more like a coconut punch with the coconut playing a key but supporting role.  There is very little if any classic mango flavor or aroma.


1. Some say M-4 is a small mango.  Not sure this is accurate.  The one I received was fairly large 1 lb+
2. The M-4 was semi-soft on arrival so I thought it might be ready, it wasn't.  The initial sample wasn't bad, but it obviously hadn't peaked.
3. I continued to sample it each day till I finally finished it up just before writing this.
4. The coconut profile was the most pronounced I have tasted in a mango, but my experience with coconut profile mangoes is admittedly limited.
5. M-4 is a sweet, rich exotic & semi-complicated flavored mango.  Unless you have had something similar it may be hard to taste it "in your head" from just a description.
6. Words and thoughts I would use to describe it are exotic, tropical, Caribbean island flavor, "transporting", a good coconut bartenders drink mix, would DEFINITELY be better as a frozen smoothie with rum.
9. Very little if any aroma.  Possibly mildly fruity.
10. Very little if any traditional classic mango flavor.
11. Like many mango's the aftertaste stays with you for an hour or more.  That can be good or bad in M-4's case it's mostly good.
12. Some say coconut flavored mangoes won't develop their signature flavor after picked & won't improve on the counter.  This M-4 certainly improved over the course of a few days in both sweetness & signature flavor, tho probably not as good as it could have been as others have suggested.
For all the descriptive flowery words it's gets an overall "8".  This may very well be a "8.5 to 9" for one that was picked later.  Like PPK it gets a good score without having any classic mango flavor.  It gets a higher score for being unique & having it's own "personality". 
13. If I was looking to plant a mango with a coconut flavor profile M-4 would definitely have to be considered, tho not sure I would need an entire M-4 tree just for myself. 
14. This isn't a mango you would probably want to eat a bushel of at one sitting.  It's rich & filling - just one large one would probably satisfy your taste buds for a day or more. With that it mind it might be a good mango to mutli-graft with another variety if space is limited.
15. Shipping - I got this in just 2 days and it was already semi-soft on arrival.  I assume this was picked hard green, if so it may not ship well over longer distances or keep well once picked.

This is definitely a Mango that you need try for yourself and cross off your tasting "bucket list".  It's also one you need to try before deciding on which coconut flavored mango tree to buy & plant especially if space is limited.   For those living in SW Florida I saw that Fruitscapes on Pine Island had nice 3 gallon M-4 trees (and other newer Zill varieties) for $40.  But I would very much encourage your to taste an M-4 first, unless your tree space is plentiful.

Green Thumbs, Dry Powder & Tight Lines!!  : )     


1. Season - PPK wins.  PPK is early when good varieties are harder to find.  As an early variety it may also sometimes set a 2nd crop.
2. Disease resistance - PPK likely wins here also as being a cleaner fruit.
3. Ripening - PPK wins. OS is prone to soft/jelly nose & quite noticeable uneven ripening.  All 3 I tried had it to some extent.
3. Flavor & Texture - This may boil down to personal preference, but I have to give it to PPK here also.  The uneven ripening of OS effects it's texture score.  OS has more of a Orange/Mango Capri-Sun juice flavor - not sherbet.  It is juicier & a tad sweeter than PPK.  PPK has a tart lemon pie filling texture flavor when a day under ripe and a sweet orange cream flavor when a day over ripe.  PPK is okay a bit under ripe, OS not so much as such PPK may have a slightly longer window for good flavor.  OS has a little classic mango flavor mixed in with the orange.  PPK not so much - it's pretty much just lemon/orange citrus.   
4. Shipping - It might be close but I would suspect that PPK would ship better also.

Summary: The flavor between the two is similar enough such that you probably don't need or want both trees especially if space is limited.  If the choice is between PPK & OS for buying and planting a tree I gotta go with PPK.  Alex/Squam at Tropical Acres told me he recommends growing PPK over OS also.  My advice don't rush out & buy an OS Sherbet tree till you have tasted it & done a fair comparison to PPK.   OS is a tasty fruit, but it ain't no "10".   There was absolutely no bias here as I was actually hoping that OS would even be better than PPK. 

Final Overall Score:  PPK 8.5..............OS 8.0

Let the fights begin............



Guys if you have never ordered from mangoes from Tropical Acres Farms you need to especially if you don't live in Florida.  It is the only way you can try phenomenal tasting rare varieties of mangoes that you would otherwise never be able to experience.  Thanks again for coming thru for me Alex.

It sucks to be limited on space, but with the 20+ fruit trees I already have I only have room enough room left for 3 of the newer Zill "flavor bomb" varieties.

The tentative selections are:

1. Sweet Tart
2. Cotton Candy
3. Sugarloaf

Alternative suggestions & recommendations welcome. Thanks. : )

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Leo Keitt Seedling? What is it?
« on: August 01, 2018, 12:03:25 PM »
I keep seeing the occasional vague reference to Leo Keitt Seedling as being a variety that scores high on tasting evaluations, but don't see much other into on it.

1. Is this like a regular Keitt only better?

2. Is this just a random dooryard tree or is it actually being propagated?

3. If it's being propagated is there anyone who has the trees/fruit for sale?

Hey Guys - Placing a custom mango box order with Alex for Beverly, Honey Kiss & Sweet Tart and still have room in the box.  What would you suggest?  These are the varieties he has right now that I've never had before.  Thanks.

Gold Nugget**
San Felipe**
Sia Siam**
Turpentine “stringies”

Lancetilla due to their size take much longer to fully ripen on the counter then expected. Seemed to be at least 7-10 days. Once fully ripened they are similar to Kent in texture and flavor, tho there is a slight tartness to Lancetilla that gives it the edge over Kent. It is also later than Kent apparently. Once ripened they are very good with a traditional mango flavor with no fiber & no resinous overtones.  Anyone liking Kent or Mallika would probably like Lancetilla also. 

With Lancetilla and other large Mangoes the most enjoyable experience is to just peel them whole and dive right in face first Viking/Commando style and get disgustingly sloppy.  Large mangoes can fool you - they take longer to ripen than you think.  Lancetilla is listed as a September mango as such it needs more consideration for those looking for a good tasting LATE mango that is tasty and a fun "over the sink" eating experience.  If anyone knows how late into September in SW Florida they last please advise.  Quite surprisingly Lancetilla has snuck onto my short list for a late mango variety for the dooryard.   IMHO it beats out the other lates Keitt & Kent for flavor by a narrow margin and may be more disease resistant as well.     

PS - Never doubt "Shot" the man knows his mangoes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Best September+ Mango besides Keitt?
« on: July 25, 2018, 06:42:40 PM »
Looking to add a couple late mango trees....Keitt plus one more. The basic requirement is they have to still be holding fruit September or later on most years and taste good. Right now its down Beverly or Honey Kiss, but open to other suggestions.

What a difference a day makes!!  How any mango, even one that looks perfectly ripe and ready for consumption can go from bad to good is amazing.  In 36 hours the Kents I had on the counter went from flavorless water logged 2 lb door stops to a very respectable tasting mango for a commercial variety.  Was it great - no but it was certainly on a par with Keitt, Valencia Pride and other similar varieties.  Two days ago I couldn't have believed the Kent Mangos I was eating had the ability to taste good.  It also bears noting that with larger mangos sometimes it takes longer for them to come up to flavor even if the color and texture look right.  I have found that too be true with Glenn's also.  People often gripe that Glenn's can be watery which is true, but that will often correct itself by giving them an extra day or two on the kitchen counter. 

Kent is a very acceptable and good tasting satisfying Mango when you give them an extra day two past the time you think they look like or should be ready.

I have tried the Hass and Florida Hass here in Florida 9b with predictable pi$$ poor results.  At Fruitscapes today Steve was suggesting I try growing their special "Super Hass" variety which he insisted does well in SW Florida and tastes exactly like a Hass.  Sorry to be being skeptical, but I have heard similar claims before.  Can anyone verify whether Super Hass is cold tolerant and really fruits well here? Thanks.

BTW: They had M-4, Triple Sec (Seacrest), Lemon Zest, Orange Sherbert trees and many others.  Mango fruit selection wasn't that great. Healthy looking 3 Gallon mango trees selection tho for $40.

Also John Painter is closed on Mondays if anyone wants to know.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Is Venus a "September" mango?
« on: July 19, 2018, 05:12:19 PM »
In a typical year does Venus' season run into September in Zone 9b Florida?

I have heard that Glenn & PPK have "short" seasons.  Just how short are they?  If true which one has the longer season. Also which of these two is earlier.  Thanks.

Besides Tropical Acres what other places can you recommend that SHIPS mangos.  Especially for the newer Zill varieties.  Mangomen in Homestead are done till next year.  Thanks.

Papaya's should be arrested for false advertising.  They look tropical and delicious.  Logic says they should rate with mangoes for flavor, but I have yet to taste a papaya that didn't make want to gag.  Are there any varieties of Papaya that would change my mind?  Thanks.

I know turpentine is probably the most common mango rootstock in Florida, but are there others that are as good or better like Sabre?  My neighbor has a Sabre mango tree that produces hundreds of mangos that just rot on the ground.  Is Sabre as good as turpentine for rootstock?

Yes before you ask they taste bad.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Mango ID help
« on: July 07, 2018, 06:19:04 PM »
My elderly neighbor has an old badly damaged ugly mango tree absolutely covered with hundreds of these small 4-6 ounce mangoes. The flavor profile is basically mild/bland one note Asian.  No significant fiber but very firm even after they drop from the tree.  I have been trying to ID this mango for awhile.
Closest match I can find is a Sabre mango. Any educated guesses? 

This is my neighbors 10-15 year old mango tree.  First time I've ever seen it flower or fruit.  Only holding one fruit.  Has unusual somewhat narrow and smallish leaves.  Elderly neighbor doesn't know the variety.  Tree has an attractive rounded growth habit.  Thanks.

Is MBBS a problem for certain varieties of mangoes on the Florida WEST Coast yet?  If not is it just a matter of time?  Thanks.

Is John Painter/Pantropic Groves still doing retail fruit and/or tree sales at his home/orchard on Pine Island in Bokeelia?  If so is does he have hours or a preferred protocol before stopping by his place?  Someone said last time they were there it looked like he had taken down his sign.  Thanks.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Citrus Mango Survey Shootout
« on: June 27, 2018, 01:24:22 PM »
Gary Zill just keeps cranking them out.  Lemon Zest though very good wasn't included as it's apparently not recommended for growing in humid climates - Like most of Florida.  PLEASE DON'T VOTE UNLESS YOU'VE ACTUALLY SAMPLED ALL 3.   THANKS!!   8) 8) 8)

If you were to plant a 1000 MONOEMBRYONIC mango seeds of the same variety would each seed produce something that tasted unique & had major or slightly different characteristics...........or would a large number of them be essentially indistinguishable from the parent without genetic DNA testing? 

« on: June 22, 2018, 05:01:41 PM »
Once again my Carrie mango tree got thinned out this year by some moron taking the fruit 30 days too soon.  Carrie here ripens in Mid-July/Early August.  I don't mind people helping themselves to the occasional ripe fruit since I share with neighbors anyway, but what really jerks my chain is mango thieves that are too blithering stupid and steal mangoes that aren't even close to being ready & just waste the fruit.   I suspect it's my neighbors landscapers, workers, etc......since all my neighbors know all they have to do is ask.

Any suggestions on how to booby trap mango trees?  Punji stakes, Malaysian swing, Bear Trap, Claymores, ICE Agents?

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