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Messages - lavender87

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We just run out of time. Same with plants.....thousands of years and an orange is still an orange.

  Of course an orange cultivar is still pretty much an orange with minimal changes if it stays within its range forever and without the interference of human or climate changes. It is also true to human that a race of people who live in tropical region will never develop an ability to adjust to the northern weather, but they did go through evolutionary adaptation to their own hot climate.

  If we look back at the history of fruit trees we would see that strawberries, a tomatoes, mangoes... now aday are 99% different than they used to be thousand years ago. Those changes might occur through natural selections or by man's selections.

  This world has always been changing in every fraction of a second. Changes occur in every aspect (biology, chemistry, mathematics politics, technology...)


  According to the article, some adjustments might occur during early stages of growth, either reversible or irreversible. I believe it applied to all or most types of trees.

 Trees respond to climate changes in 3 ways, evolutionary adaptation (through seeds), modification (during development), acclimation (internal chemical changes).

1)  At least some of the off-springs of a certain hybrid citrus variety might adapt better to the cold climate than their hybrid parents. I did not mean the original ancestor like pure poncrius, but the immediate hybrid parents like citrange. For example, some of the citrange off-spring might adapt better than their parents in cold climate. Even Thomasville citangequat which mostly come true from seed might have experienced some adjustment to adapt better to colder climate than the original Thomasville citrangequat 100 years ago.

2) Some the adjustments were not reversible in its lifespan. Those adjustment we have been arguing about previously was the reversible adjustments which also calls acclimation (internal changes of chemicals to respond to climate change). I personally thought of leaving hybrid citrus seedlings in my plastic covered patio with no heat equipped to force those survivals to adjust themselves in their structure to respond to colder climate. Previously, most of us tried to over protected our seedlings in greenhouses with heaters which I believe might limit the seedling modification to adapt better to colder climate in its early growth stages.

  It sounds pretty much similar to living beings. If someone grew up in a tropical climate region like the southern part of Florida, they might not tolerate to freezing weather as good as someone grew up in the north like Russia or Alaska. As the result, over many centuries, off-springs of the northern people inheriting the "evolutionary adaptation" from their ancestors and therefore tend to tolerate to freezing much better than someone from the south.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: citrus grafter needed in San Diego
« on: October 04, 2019, 06:00:52 PM »

  You should message "dragon", she is close to your location, so I think she might be able to help. She is Viernamese too.

I've recently bought 2 tea plant seedlings from and they both look very healthy. I will try to grow them for 1 more year in the pots before testing them outside unprotected.

There are several main types of tea plant cultivars.

1) Camellia sinensis var. sinensis is from China and is the most cold tolerant, with small leaf size.

2) Camellia sinensis var. cambodia is from Cambodia, with medium leaf size.

3) Camellia sinensis var. assamica is from India, with large leaf size.

 I am looking for the one from China for its cold hardiness. I tried to avoid seller from Florida because they very likely sell the low cold tolerant types of Camellia sinensis. Unfortunately, I'd also lost my faith on those sellers from China since I bought seeds from China and none of the seeds germinated.

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / karp sweet quince fruits in-need
« on: September 28, 2019, 01:08:12 PM »
  Does any one have fruit from "karp sweet quince" fruits? I would love to taste this type of fruit.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Tiwanica “Nansho Daidai” Lemon Tree (10F)
« on: September 27, 2019, 10:19:40 PM »
  Any one has any reliable info about this cultivar? JustFruits&Exotics listed this vaierty as zone 8a hardy, down to 10F.

  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Harvey lemon does not have seeds. The only interesting part of Harvey lemon was its legend of cold hardiness. It might be just a rumor. I will observe how my tree will sail through the up coming winter.

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Camellia sinensis (tea plant wanted)
« on: September 26, 2019, 05:42:59 PM »

   Does any one have this tea plant? I checked and found that many sources claimed this Chinese tea plant can be grown in zone 5-9. Either seeds or plants.
  I bought a bag of tea plant seeds on Ebay from a seller in China, but they sold all floaters. It's been 3 months and nothing germinated yet.


Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Fast flowing trifoliata (Dwarf)
« on: September 25, 2019, 08:42:54 AM »
 I apologize for not reading the post carefully.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Does rootstock hasten fruit ripening in citrus?
« on: September 23, 2019, 03:20:10 AM »
The best advice is to choose a root stock that is adapted to the soils and climate in which the tree is going to be planted;  As a general rule the faster a tree grows the poorer the fruit quality.

 Thanks Millet. I was mentioning about the rate of ripening not the rate of growth or rate of maturity. For example, a certain citrus ripe in January might be pushed to have fruits ripening in December when grafted onto a poncirus rootstock.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Does rootstock hasten fruit ripening in citrus?
« on: September 22, 2019, 02:25:27 PM »

  I read some info online about grape rootstock affecting rate of ripening. I hope it also occurs in citrus.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 22, 2019, 09:19:54 AM »
I am trying to do this for three years, approximately 5% of Yuzu seeds are small enough to be compatible with triploids. But these seedlings are growing rather slowly.

  Amazing, I wish you luck on your project. I think if we graft an extra rootstock to the existing slow growing yuzu seedling, it might force it to grow faster. Some types of fertilizer do help sometimes to boost growth in early stages. We can also collect scionwood after the seedling is older than 1 year old and try to graft it on a vigorously matured rootstock to boost growth.

For the last 3 years I gently and patiently  was trying to correct the tons of fake prophetic statements.
 I was doing this because they  always will be on the net and can  mislead  very many  people.
I understand that it is a lot of fun to generate such texts, but it is incredibly irresponsible  and destructive.

  I understood it now. Later in this forum people should clearly stated what considered a personal experience or opinion from what being facts with cited publications or proofs. If someone shares something regarding their personal experience, it is good to keep a note. Thanks Ilya11 for clarification.

I let all members pretty much state their opinions, but we all should be pleasant.

 Thanks Millet. Strongly agreed. There are many ways to correct or implement someone's information. There is freedom of speach, so people can share their experience, opinions. If there is some mis-information, anyone can nicely correct that.

 I've just wondered where you are to not saying a word about harsh comments. This forum is a great place for discussion on the basis of respecting each other.

At one point I thought he is a bot, compiling, mixing and pasting all information possible.
But now I know he is real, just trying to be greater than he is.

  Ilya11, I would like to thank you for providing useful information. I am also thankful to Socal his/her contribution. Without active members in this forum, it will be a boring one.

Ilya you know SoCalCharlie is a self proclaimed expert on cut & paste. Lol!

  There should not be such an attitude in here. This is an open forum for everybody to learn as well as to exchange knowledge. If someone thinks or believes his/her is here to teach, please get a degree and apply for an official job at some Univerisity or some research institution.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 21, 2019, 03:04:05 PM »
Well if you think there is any  quality in either the Yuzu or the Ichang Papeda, then I guess it will not lower the quality of either fruit.

 :-\? I thought yuzu is famous for its uses in many cuisines. I was thinking of seedless yuzu. I read a few posts about seedless yuzu available in Japan, but it seems to be impossible to find in the US. Some opinions also claimed that seedless yuzu in Japan is not as good as the orginal yuzu interm of fragrances. I knew there are at least several varieties of seedless Ichang Papeda in both Europe and the US, so I came up with an idea of crossing yuzu with Ichang Papeda to test my luck of finding a high quality seedless yuzu.

  I am not so sure whether or not a seedless citrus mother or father would transfer his/her seedless character to off-springs.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: September 21, 2019, 12:53:03 PM »
  Was there such a tree exited? Will this hybrid significantly decry the quality?

  I know the Ichang Papeda fruit is itself a low quality citrus fruit, but yuzu has many uses in culinary field.

I have many leaves, I picked up no smell or good taste. Nothing compared to kaffir limes or bears limes.

  Thanks lebmung. According to your experience on ichang papeda, it must be a useless variety then. I don't think a citrus variety that offers insipid leaves will produce fragrant fruits. Ichang papeda hybrid might slightly improve the cold hardiness but might as well give up the quality of fruits.

  I just wonder if there existed a lost variety of ichangensis (believed to be yuzu ancestor) then why people got rid of such an excellent variety. I assumed that variety of ichangensis must offer very strong fragrant fruits, even more fragrant than nowaday yuzu.

 Socal2warm, did you taste an Ichang papeda leaf? Does it have strong fragrance or not? How was it compared to a normal lemon leaf and to a kaffir leaf?

  My Ichang papeda is currently too small, so I feel bad to pick a leaf from it.

Ichang lemon is Pomelo x Yuzu hybrid >:(

 This makes more sense since Ichang papeda fruits do not have strong fragrances. Ichang lemon has another name, "fragrance ball", so it is weird if Ichang lemon is a hybrid of Ichang papeda and pomelo; however, I think Socal2warm mentioned to the (lost ichangensis) which was believed to be the ancestor of YUZU instead of the nowaday Ichang papeda.

Thanks everyone, very interesting discussion.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Thomasville citrangequat (pictures added)
« on: September 18, 2019, 11:07:31 PM »
LBurford, you are currently having a lot of citrangequat seedlings and a 6 year-old citrangequat tree. I've just wondered why you wished to buy more?

   The leaves of karffir lime has the petiole wing that is almost the size of its blade. I noticed that all of Ichang papeda hybrid has much smaller ratio between leaf petiole wing and leaf blade. Moreover, assuming that kaffir lime was a hybrid between Ichang Papeda and Citron, then it would be as cold hardy as Ichang Lemon or yuzu; however, the fact is kaffir lime is very sensitive to frost, and its cold hardiness could not even compare to Meyer Lemon.

 Kaffir lime (Mauritius papeda):

 Ichang papeda:

 Melanesian Papeda:

Citrus hystrix var. micrantha - small papeda (Locally known as the biasong and samuyao)
Citrus hystrix var. celebica - Celebes papeda
Citrus hystrix var. macroptera - Melanesian papeda
Citrus cavaleriei - Ichang papeda
Citrus latipes - khasi papeda
Citrus hystrix - The kaffir lime or Mauritius papeda

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