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Messages - Ilya11

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 01, 2018, 05:20:23 PM »
Citrus seedlings do not require a  lot of light.
Six thousands luxes are sufficient. You can measure them with Android or iOS application Lux Meter Level

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 30, 2018, 05:07:58 PM »
I  suggest that you graft these seedlings at some point. From my experience , on their own roots they stop to grow beyond about 15 cm height. Do not  know why, but this is also an experience of  at least one other person (Alias from French forum). 
Have you managed to keep them? 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: November 27, 2018, 12:16:05 PM »
Very interesting, how many seeds were there?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: November 27, 2018, 10:49:59 AM »
Poncirus trifoliata leaves have similar autumn induced coloration :

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: November 26, 2018, 10:03:26 AM »
No variegation on my Prague, leaves stay green like this up to the spring.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: November 25, 2018, 07:35:22 AM »
Oh my goodness; I was hoping swamp lemon would be the answer to my prayers. I guess it’s not that much different from PT. If I did find a “swamp lemon” in the swamps of eastern NC, it would be hard to tell if it was swamp lemon or just another PT.
It is obvious that at least this year, freshly cut Swamp Lemon is very different from the "ordinary" poncirus .
I guess that the amount of juice is inversely proportional to the seed number. It could be that a limited number of seeds is a feature of Swamp Lemon and explains why people consider it more acceptable than ordinary poncirus. Also, as you see my poncirus has green color of the pulp, while two other fruits are both  yellow inside. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: November 24, 2018, 02:29:51 PM »
Sylvain reported such a variegation some time ago, but strangely enough I never have seen it with my Prague.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: November 23, 2018, 05:15:30 PM »
No, it is just their different position, All three look very much alike.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Please ID mandarine variety
« on: November 23, 2018, 12:36:33 PM »
What was  origin of these fruits? Were they from a shop or came from the Black Sea Caucasian coast? Could you please post a picture of cut fruit? For me it looks more like Shivamikan (Citrus leiocarpa)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: November 22, 2018, 06:06:37 AM »
Below is a comparison of three poncirus varieties:

From left to right: Poncirus B.Voss-45 gram,  SwampLemon-41 gram  , PoncirusTrifoliata+ -41gram

Poncirus from B.Voss is almost all seeds (45), SwampLemon contains 21 seeds and PT+ 25seeds

After seed extraction:

Very small quantity of juice in classical poncirus, very high quantity of soluble matters (20° Brix), very acid, bitter oil emulsion

Swamp Lemon: 4 ml of juice, 9° Brix, acid, some bitterness, oils are present and stick to dents

PT+:  6 ml of juice, 10° Brix, acid, less bitter than SL, oils are probably there because of astringent taste, but do not stick to dents

I diluted all three juices with water to 5° Brix and kept them overnight in  refrigerator:

Poncirus Voss: acid, some bitterness, sharp taste, but not much revolting to three people who tasted it, sticky oils with typical poncirus taste are in yellow sediment

SwampLemon: taste more diluted, essentially the same appreciation as above, probably less bitterness and acidity, sticky oils are in yellow sediment

PT+ :  taste almost like white grapefruit but less sweet, some lemony note, sediment consists mostly of pulp membrane residues, may be some oils, but drastically less than in two previous cases.

For me these results are still inconclusive, especially in case of SwampLemon versus usual poncirus.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 21, 2018, 12:26:42 PM »
Also, changes in citrus parent could help to disrupt self-incompatibility and preserve zygotic trait necessary for the generation of large hybrid populations

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 21, 2018, 11:58:25 AM »
I think the citrus parents were changed because the whole project took 30 years and it is difficult to be consistent in pursuing it for such along time without changes.
Radoslav, comparing to other poncirus FD tastes better.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 21, 2018, 10:53:30 AM »
Recently  I found one interesting article that could be an instructive example of what to expect from recurrent backcrossing of poncirus F1 hybrids to citrus cultivars.

These Japanese scientists are involved in a project of breeding citrus tristeza virus (CTV) resistant citruses. Poncirus contains such a gene that is located on  its chromosome N2.
By crossing Flying Dragon to Hassaku orange they selected one citrange H-FD1 that was resistant to CTV. Than this plant was backrossed to another edible citrus- tangor Kiyomi.

 Out of 58 plants only one: Nou-8 was more or less edible, but acidity and bitterness were still present. It was also resistant to CMV and was released by Okitsu station. It is probably a second, after US119   "nearly edible" released poncirus hybrid.

By making a second backross of this plant  to Siamese Acidless Pomello they produced 93 plants of which only 4 had gustative qualities superior to Nou-8. In one of these plants, also selected for the third backcross  through DNA marker analysis,  still around 20% of genes were from poncirus, while in Nou-8 they covered ~36% of genome. 

For me, this is a little bit deceptive result and proves that even for a single gene trait you need more than 2 backcroses and 30 years of breeding in order to  get rid of nasty taste of Poncirus fruits.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichanquat 6-7-2
« on: November 20, 2018, 08:45:47 AM »
Very impressive for such a large citrus to be growing outside in the Paris region. Especially one that does not have trifoliate in its ancestry.
It must have inherited desirable hardiness traits from both its parents. I don't think ichangensis by itself would have done as well out there.

Did you protect the tree while it was young?
No, it was never protected.
Ichangensis by itself is not particularly hardy under conditions when daytime winter temperatures are rising above 10°C. It is the first to start vegetation and can be killed by sudden frost return.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichanquat 6-7-2
« on: November 20, 2018, 08:38:09 AM »
mine died last year because of rind-cracks. It was not well established (weak root system) I have bought a plant from Adavo. Hope it is the same specimen.

They have a picture of my tree on their site :D

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichanquat 6-7-2
« on: November 20, 2018, 04:04:46 AM »
Congratulations, Ilya! I haven’t heard of this variety. Is it one that you hybridized yourself? Is the fruit good? Do you eat it like a kumquat, peel and all?
Thank you,
This variety was bred in Florida, B.Voss from Hamburg got several seeds of it, they were probably all zygotic and one of the seedlings has been chosen by him and propagated by grafting. I got this plant from Bernhard in 2002, it has been in the ground since 2003, unprotected but in a rather favorable position close to the Western wall of the house. Never was damaged ( the lowest temperature was -16.5C). As far as I know this grafted seedling started to flower for the first time   in my garden in 2010.

It has several waves of flowering, fruits are ripe in  around 3 months. I suspect this seedling is triploid since it contains few seeds (one in approximately 4  fruits). In a description of original 6-7-2 it was full of seeds. Fruits have variable amount of juice when fully ripe. Some are empty, while majority have juice that is less acid than that of Nagami. Albedo is sweet, the outer skin is bitter with pine and feijoa notes. If you like Bitter orange jam you can eat these fruits like kumquats, with years I became addicted to them. ;D 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Ichanquat 6-7-2
« on: November 19, 2018, 05:25:15 PM »
This year the fruits are much larger than before

and the tree (more than 7 m high) soon will be a candidate for the tallest citrus in Europe

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 19, 2018, 01:51:04 PM »
There exists "4 seasons citrangequat" with hindsii , but it is less resistant  and not so good as Thomasville.
Most of available clones of F.hindsii are tetraploids, so resulting triploids have more features of this kumquat that has only a decorative value.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: a few pictures from the Pacific Northwest
« on: November 19, 2018, 03:49:33 AM »
Seattle and Paris have roughly the same climate conditions, with the hermetic cover in a sunny spot  shown for Bloomsweet the death of the plant is guaranteed.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 18, 2018, 03:23:09 AM »
No, it is a hybrid between tetraploid Fortunella hindsii and Clementine

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter care of citranges, etc.
« on: November 16, 2018, 02:27:49 PM »
If your basement have temperature of less than +10C you do not need lights for overwintering.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 16, 2018, 03:51:39 AM »
I rescued several hybrids from germinations that gave one strong and one weak seedling.
Initially weak plants later developed normally. Their selection is quite obvious when cotyledons are of different colors.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Louisiana Citrus - Video
« on: November 14, 2018, 07:49:12 AM »
I was able to open it with Firefox anonymizer anonymoX

Citrus General Discussion / Re: twig dieback with gum at branch crooks
« on: November 13, 2018, 01:28:33 PM »
It is probably the safest of all imaginable fungicides. Phosphorous acid is a natural compound occurring in the environment.   

Citrus General Discussion / Re: twig dieback with gum at branch crooks
« on: November 13, 2018, 09:02:08 AM »
"Feeding studies carried out at similar exposure
levels demonstrate that residues of fosetyl and phosphonic acid in milk and other animal commodities
are below the LOQ of the method of analysis validated for enforcement (0.1 and 0.5 mg/kg for milk
and other animal commodities respectively)."
"Therefore no dietary risk was identified due to residues resulting from the use of fosetyl-Al according
to the representative uses in citrus, grapes and cucumbers supported by the applicant."
"Adequate analytical methods for enforcement are
available to control the residues of fosetyl-Al and phosphonic acid in plant matrices under consideration.
EFSA concluded that the proposed use of fosetyl-Al on potatoes and the proposed uses of potassium
phosphonates on pome fruits and peaches and the authorised use of potassium phosphonates on tree
nuts in the United States are unlikely to result in a consumer exposure exceeding the toxicological
reference values for phosphonic acid and fosetyl and therefore are unlikely to pose a risk to consumers


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