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Messages - Ilya11

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 12
1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Kumquat x Poncirus
« on: September 18, 2018, 05:10:45 AM »
Thank you

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Kumquat x Poncirus
« on: September 17, 2018, 11:51:38 AM »
Very interesting Marcin, please keep us updated on the growth of these seedlings.
Do you remember what was the embryo color of hybrid seeds- green or white?
Have you castrated the Nagami flowers? I noticed that when it is flowering alone there are virtually no seeds formed. That is why this summer I pollinated non-castrated Nagami with Swamp Lemon, we shall see if there will be some hybrids.

3
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Root Stock?
« on: September 12, 2018, 01:06:08 PM »
I prefer seed grown, non-transplanted, roots for apples a plums, because they have tap roots.  Is this an issue for citrus?

Deep taproot increases winter hardiness.

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:57:14 PM »
That's very fascinating but I haven't seen much evidence of this (epigenetic modifications passed to clones or seedlings.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: September 11, 2018, 08:40:00 AM »
Lamarkism, to a limited degree, and on the smaller scale, is a definite valid theoretical foundation for inheritance.
To an extremely limited extent, and it's not entirely clear whether that is the case with citrus, so that is really beside the point.

(Of course science has validated a little bit of truth to Lamarkism, like activation or deactivation of certain genes, and methylation of DNA bases, but I did not want to mention that and overcomplicate things, I think it's pretty doubtful citrus is going to be able to pass down its cold-hardiness gene expression adaptations to its nucellar seed)

Very superficial statement. In plants both somatoclonal variation ( due to mutations arising and darwinistically selected in individual cells of multicellular organism) as well as environmentally induced epigenetic modifications can be transmitted to  to clones or  maintained in zygotic seedlings.

6
Environmental conditions are clearly very important, but I would never try to generalize in the case of citruses, they are so different.
I have only one example- for years I have been trying to cross 5*citrumelo to Thomasville, but failed with the exception of one fruit that was formed during extreme heat wave.

7
From my experience, based on thousands seedlings of 5* citrumelo, its crosses to FD and several grapefruit varieties are almost all very slowly growing plants, while hybrids to Yuzu and oranges have extraordinary rapid growth.
Not really the best example, since citrumelo is already a hybrid. And Yuzu already has very vigorous growth.
Than I do not understand what is your "hypothesis" is about and why you suggested "vigorous" Yuzu for its testiting.

My theory is that if a hybrid citrus flower is pollinated with pollen from one of the original two species from which the hybrid originated from, the percentage of nucellar seed is likely to be lower. This would be because, the genetic composition of the megagametophyte would be less heterogenous, and thus presumably have more vigor.

So, for example, if Yuzu were pollinated by C. ichangensis, there might be some zygotic seeds form in the Yuzu fruit.


8

Outbreeding depression is more common than hybrid vigor.

It is not a case, depression is rather rare, but hybrid vigor heterosis is very common, especially inside the same genus.
From my experience, based on thousands seedlings of 5* citrumelo, its crosses to FD and several grapefruit varieties are almost all very slowly growing plants, while hybrids to Yuzu and oranges have extraordinary rapid growth.

9
Millet, sorry for misunderstanding, my reply was addressed to initial post of Socal2warm, not yours. Completely agree with you and Dr.Manners on mutual competition between zygotic and nucellar embryos.

10
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best way to pollinate citrus in winter?
« on: September 06, 2018, 03:07:07 PM »
If they lack  ovaries, pollination is not making any cense.

11
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best way to pollinate citrus in winter?
« on: September 06, 2018, 02:20:43 PM »
Most citrus varieties do not require pollination to produce fruits.

12
Usually it is quite an opposite. Due to the hybrid vigor the heterogeneous offspring grows better than genetically homogeneous parents.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichanglemons
« on: September 04, 2018, 06:44:03 AM »
In fact, there's no ideal name that exists for this "Ichang lemon" that is entirely exclusive to that variety, for Shangyuan (alternative spelling xiang yuan) also is the name for Chinese citron, an entirely different citrus.
Citrus wilsonii

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Swamp Lemon Adventure!
« on: August 31, 2018, 04:23:33 PM »
The  ratios of lengths of side and middle leaflets on photo of Terry's initial post are identical between Swamp Lemon and "standard" PT ( ~0.75)
Moreover, there exist hundreds different poncirus strains and leaves on individual plants exhibit a lot of variation. Swamp Lemon is  not showing any features that confirm the presence of citrange influence.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Swamp Lemon Adventure!
« on: August 30, 2018, 05:04:26 PM »
Swamp Lemon flower



Immature fruit

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16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Soon To Be Released By The USDA
« on: August 21, 2018, 10:06:21 AM »
Survival reports on various winter loss threads indicates that US119 is only marginally less hardy than a citrange.
It probably depends on climate, but in the a past I lost US119 two times when Navelina orange survived.
 It is maturing  late and is  susceptible  to rather  moderate frosts in December.

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Soon To Be Released By The USDA
« on: August 20, 2018, 06:46:04 PM »
I do not know anything of FF-6-15-150 but poncirus hybrid US119 that is in its pedigree is not more hardy than navel oranges.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Soon To Be Released By The USDA
« on: August 20, 2018, 02:47:59 PM »
It is for the resistance to HLB :D

19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Soon To Be Released By The USDA
« on: August 20, 2018, 01:58:53 AM »
1/16 of poncirus pedigree and not bred for hardiness

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 18, 2018, 03:52:31 AM »
Wow, that is an ambitious project and a lot work! I hope some of those pan out for you!

Yes, I find that  it now looks like a full time job, but luckily  I am retired :)

I still believe , that current number of seedlings is not sufficiently high.
I read somewhere that even when crosses are made between two high quality citrus varieties you need at least 200 hybrids to select something new and valuable.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 18, 2018, 03:43:15 AM »
SoCal2warm, beware  that 5star citrumelo when castrated and cross-polinated is giving more than 90% of zygotic seeds and rare nucellar seedlings can be  readily identified.

Before making such remarks as "Beware that ..." you have to acquire your own solid experience in citrus growing and hybridization. (just a friendly advice) >:(

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 17, 2018, 05:48:06 PM »

I am not fully agree with your reasoning for rejection of of the progeny of direct hybrids between poncirus and edible citrus.
Of course, if you consider all the plants in F2, F3 and so on generations, they become more and more heterogeneous in respect of the presence of genes for hardiness, but due to the chromosome crossing-overs the two genomes will be progressively  present in the smaller and smaller intermingled fragments finally resulting in the separation of genes for bad  quality of poncirus fruits from the genes of hardiness in particular plants. This will be less possible in your pop3 and pop2 populations.

If you select for extreme hardiness ( comparable to that of poncirus ) in each subsequent generation of intercrossing inside pop5 population, and simultaneously keep selection for better and better  fruit quality, discarding the rest, you will produce hardy plants with higher and higher proportion of edible citrus genome.
Last year I obtained around  400 hybrid seedlings of 5star citrumelo crossed to Morton citrange and Batumi citrumelo. After selection for the absence of poncirus taste of leaves. I have around 50 plants of each cross growing in the ground.
Now I need a good cold winter  ;D to see to what extent cold hardiness  and nasty poncirus aftertaste are linked.

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is horticultural oil safe for citrus
« on: August 16, 2018, 01:38:14 PM »
Does the number of points after each phrase mean something, or it is just random?

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichanglemons
« on: August 15, 2018, 03:57:33 AM »
You are almost a visionary ;D

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: August 15, 2018, 03:51:04 AM »
What I learned from my 25 years of experience of growing hardy citruses in a open ground- is to never generalize. I am sure that Dr. Manners will agree with me ;)
Different root/bud combinations are showing drastically variable responses to winter conditions. A seedling grown in situ with deep principal root has certainly an advantage over a plant grafted in a pot on a stock with shallow roots.

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