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Messages - Mango Stein

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: One more plant to identify...
« on: February 18, 2020, 12:38:16 AM »

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Oh for the love of durian!
« on: January 25, 2020, 06:09:09 AM »
Here is an interesting video of an Indochinaman using durian as bait, in conjunction with pepsi, to catch fish.

Though, having watched other videos, it seems these videos are faked, as someone off camera sends fish through another hole nearby.

I kind of like that hint of bitterness in lychees, so enjoy biting into exterior. But i think there is also a hint of bitterness also in thin layer of interior skin that is around the shell. Anyways, lychees will forever be in my top 10. It's very frustrating living in a place that's not really that great for my two favorite fruits: mangoes and lychees. I get some, but not enough! But i can't complain because almost everything else does so great here. Getting tons of rambutans right now. And just harvested many hundreds of pounds of exquisite durians!  :) 8) 8)

What a bizarre culinary fetish. The membrane I could understand, but the exocarp of a lychee?? To me it is putrid and dusty from debris of pesticides. But it's still the easiest way to open a lychee without a juicesplosion.

One thing I discovered by accident biting into a passionfruit when I was too lazy to get a knife: there was a durian aroma. I think I read another testimony on the forum regarding this too.

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Budwood wanted for EU: Morus cv's
« on: January 17, 2020, 05:41:03 AM »


Lime and barbados cherry ?

When I grow up, I'm going to bovine university!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedless lychees
« on: January 11, 2020, 05:16:23 AM »
I would sooner say lychees have a stone or pit, so in a way lychees have always been seedless to me. I don't think there is a botanically correct application for these terms, which include pips and kernels too, it's more of a vernacular thing that probably had origins in distinguishing what was edible (seed) from inedible (stone). It also might have been connected to plural vs singular units within the one fruit.

Interestingly, in Slavonic languages they use the modified metaphor of "bone" for the pit or stone of a fruit, probably because one gnaws flesh off it before discarding. Though I think nowadays they too jumble this word with the regular word for seed.

I'd say it's all a symptom of the general dumbing down of society, but I don't have the stones to go that far.

Don't read too much into my expressions, the "crusty grapes" reference was more in relation to the fact that a coarse shell surrounds the lychee aril. The pulp texture of many grapes is the same as lychee, and yes, flavor not so different in my opinion.

I have tasted excellent lychees, I tend to detect a vanilla component in the best ones. Not really sure what people mean by rose water. The last time I think I had contact with that was when a Christian fundamentalist was trying to perform an ad hoc exorcism on me. It mustn't have worked, because I grow a Buddha's Hand fruit right next to a bodi tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedless lychees
« on: January 09, 2020, 02:27:12 AM »
His two main seedless cultivars are Sansuelin and Suelinsan. A third variety, seeded, is called Linsansue. If you are wondering about these silly names, it is because he truncated the three names of his daughters to name his first cultivar. Presumably, not anticipating he would name more cultivars, he changed the ordering around for the subsequent cultivars. Obviously the logical solution would have been to just rename the cultivars to a shorted form: San, Sue and Lin.

Not a fan of Mr Dixon... Bought some lychee trees from him, after that he never replied to an email. He also brags about his wealth, how he has traveled to every single country on earth, how his daughter is top CEO of mining company, etc.

1. peach
2. lychee/longan
3. some fig varieties
4. loquat
5. alpine strawberry


Not sure why mangoes are underappreciated in Europe. Meanwhile those crusty grapes often called lychees are revered. You have your brilliant Vitis legacy, don't substitute it with the Chinese imitation!

Greece and Cyprus are the closest European countries to India... even Alexander of Macedon made it all the way there. Who knows if he got to taste a mango?

Mango Stein:  Your flower panicle has Powdery Mildew.  On some varieties, such as Nam Doc Mai, fruits hold on anyway, even on an infested pannicle.

Fruit set can be improved by sprays with Calcium, Magnesium, Boron, and Vitamin-C.

Ah ok. I could have never thought powdery mildew, since leaves are totally immune. Also there is no problem with large fruit set, just later splitting when golf-ball sized.

According to an Indian professor, the remedy is to spray with wettable sulfur, then 15 days later spray with Dinocap, then 20 days later spray with Tridemorph. Seems rather laborious.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White kwai muk (Artocarpus hypargyreus)
« on: December 30, 2019, 08:02:17 PM »
No photos of full grown fruits?

Flowering: May–Aug.; fruiting: Jun.–Aug.
Distribution: Hainan, Guangdong, Guangxi, Yunnan, Hunan, Jiangxi, Fujian.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / White kwai muk (Artocarpus hypargyreus)
« on: December 26, 2019, 04:11:30 AM »
Ok... push came to shove...

This is a wild specimen growing in Hong Kong. Note the long peduncles and tomentose abaxial leaf side.

Ostensibly, no one has this species in cultivation yet. Will be interesting to see if mods leave two threads with same binomial now.  ;D

I'm not going to repeat myself too many more times, but there is CURRENTLY a species with the name Artocarpus hypargyreus and THIS AIN'T IT. So by the old, current and new nomenclature, this thread is incorrectly titled. That is the main issue here.

And I'm not arguing to add a different name, just remove hypargyreus. This thread will more than survive with the name kwai muk. BTW skhan misspelled hypargyreus... that is how unwieldy the name is, so the practical arguments for keeping it I don't think hold water.

Like all other artocarpus, kwai muk have different shaped leaves at different stages of growth, even on the same tree.

Your point is? I am well aware of the intraspecific variation of kwai muk. It's all the same species. But that species is NOT A. hypargyreus (White kwai muk), which has long peduncles, velvety underside of leaves, male flowers very pale and female flowers white and bumpy. Neither you or anyone else is growing it, though I'd love to be proven wrong. If anyone wants to upload their personal photo of a tree in cultivation, go right ahead.

In sum, the two species are only superficially similar, and that is why they have similar common names. But no one has the real A. hypargyreus and if you did you would not think they are all the one species of "kwai muk".


I think that's a bad idea. It would mean it will be hard to search for info on kwai muk since most are used to the old name.
The best way to go imho if you want to use the new name is something like A.nitidus subsp. lingnanensis (ex hypargyraeus ).
It's long but at least you can find the thread with the old name.

Mama mia. You think people prefer to search by typing hypargyreus instead of kwai muk? Which is easier?
As I said, just get rid of hypargyraeus (sic.) and leave kwai muk.
Never quite understood people who want to perpetuate a mistake, presumably until the end of time. But you can't delay forever. Stop making excuses for people, it's not hard to learn a new name, and it is not hard to rename thread titles.

And have you thought about how many future newcomers to the forum might struggle to find information because a redundant and obsolete term has to continue to be used here? TFF should be on the cutting edge, not in sync with Wikipedia. But anyway, I am arguing to just remove the incorrect, not add the provisional new name, i.e. a neutral position.

Then there is the issue of A. hypargyreus actually already existing and being another species. What happens when people want to discuss this species or sell seeds? In fact, just to prove a point I think I might start a thread and cultivate the real hypargyreus as it is a fine tree anyway. Also, the new name for kwai muk is NOT A.nitidus subsp. lingnanensis. That is the CURRENT name. We do not know what the new name will be for sure. What we do know is that it will NOT be a subspecies of nitidus and we know that it NEVER WAS hypargyreus.

skhan mate, not sure what you are waiting for. I can PM you the peer reviewed articles if you need. Or I guess you can continue to trust nursery labels and amateurs on Wikipedia. This confusion has happened because A. hypargyreus is also known as a kwai muk, albeit its full name 白桂木 when translated is White kwai muk. The one in cultivation that everyone grows is Hong (Red) kwai muk. This is the main kwai muk, and so if no color adjective is used, by default the red one is being assumed.

How about A. hole ... a lot easier to remember.

Hey tuff boi. Do you do stand up? We could be looking at the next George Carlin here.

I would request skhan as OP to remove Artocarpus hypargyraeus (sic.) from topic title, since that is incorrect. Artocarpus is about to undergo a major shakeup thanks to phylogenomic work recently done. A paper dealing with proposed new binomials will be published in January or February. At any rate, both by current systematics and the provisional new one A. hypargyreus is incorrect, since that has long peduncles and is not in cultivation.

What is in cultivation is indeed the real kwai muk (better pinyin would be 'gwaimuk'), but the associated binomial has almost always been mistaken. Its current ID is A. nitidus subsp. lingnanensis, but will probably become A. parvus.


Does it mean anything that panicles are going black but fruit staying green (then later splitting)?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: New fruits
« on: December 15, 2019, 07:50:57 PM »
That Bunchosia has straight leaf margins and so I would guess is B. armeniaca. The common one with wavy leaf margins is B. glandulifera. You may continue to have poor fruit sets, because B. armeniaca is known to often suffer self-infertility.

I would plant (weather/season permitting) the orchard floor with poly culture or mix of deep rooted annual and perennial grasses like rye and legumes which will eventually build structure, put organic matter in the ground provide habitat for microbial life and make life more conducive for growing your mangos.  You can plant perennial trees directly into this tall grass, they will not compete with each other for water or nutrients.  Spray biodynamic preps and or other teas like compost, humus, etc.  clay is the most amenable soil type for change to soil structure also spraying the whole area not just one plant it’s all one system.   Of course adding earthworm castings to this living habitat should work wonders.  A change in structure can be seen within 10 days after using foliar spray so it not take that long to fix.  Also this is not a lawn let them grow.

Appreciate the advice. I do already have some groundcovers and stable weeds, but anyway won't doing everything you said just improve the upper stratum of earth when beneath it there will always be clay? I feel this mango issue has a very specific pathogenesis but I don't know what it is. Foliage always looks healthy, although trunk is cracked from sunburn when tree was young. Other trees are fine.

Unfortunately, my tree issue is still going on. Year after year, all fruit split or necrotize when small. The boron amendment did not solve things.

Apparently some Thai mangoes suffer this problem constantly. Well this is a Kwan on dwarfing rootstock.

The only suggestions I get are irrigation issue (too much or too little) but that is not the issue. I am on clay and just wondering if amended planting mound too much and now taproot has hit clay.

Short video clip:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First ever Carambola
« on: December 10, 2019, 11:12:57 PM »
Brussels sprout never looked so photogenic.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Australian Mangoes Headed to the US
« on: December 10, 2019, 11:10:59 PM »
I have caught myself again eating R2E2 in the company of culinary inferiors. Each time suckered in by its well-endowed figure and curves in the right places. But not worth it at all. #R2MeToo

Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Cosmic Crisp apple
« on: December 08, 2019, 01:20:32 AM »
And a McDonald's cheeseburger can stay in a cupboard for 10 years. When microbes aren't interested in food, that's generally a bad sign for nutritional worth (or toxicity).

This apple sounds like good news for the grocery chains, not so much for the home gardener.

Did anyone bring a bag of white powder to the party?

I've heard it's better than the liquid hormone for striking cuttings and healing grafts.

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