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Messages - SoCal2warm

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The following three varieties were left outside over the winter, from left to right in the picture: Reinking pomelo, Satsuma, Yuzu.

Notice the hue of the leaf coloration on each of them, there's a clear pattern.
The leaves on the Yuzu are the most green, while the leaves on the pomelo are the most yellowish. The Satsuma, perhaps not surprisingly, is intermediate in leaf color.

I actually have more than one of each of these, but they would have been too much to all show in the picture. They all look consistent within each variety. (So this experimental trial wasn't just one single specimen of each variety)

Obviously the leaf coloration is in line with the expected hardiness level of each of these varieties (with Yuzu being the most tolerant to colder temperatures out of the three).
I think this comparative picture of leaf coloration is very indicative of different levels of hardiness of these different varieties.

they are seedlings growing on their own roots

(Olympia, WA, zone 8a)

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Ichang papeda available
« on: February 21, 2020, 06:35:16 PM »
Does anyone want an Ichang papeda?
It's a very small little plant and you'll need to take very good care of it to get it bigger to the point it can be planted outside.
Likely you may have to grow it indoors for a year.
I feel there's a good chance it may not survive, so you may only want to accept this if you're really good at growing these things, have lots of experience growing little seedlings.

can give it away for free, only one available
You should live in climate zone 8

I know some of you have been searching for an Ichang papeda for years and couldn't find it available from anywhere.
(Please only inquire if you're one of these people who've been searching for Ichang papeda for a long time)

Also, if you accept this little thing, make sure you offer seeds to other people in this forum in the future. (i.e. be willing to pass the favor along, since this is a difficult to find species)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 21, 2020, 12:59:00 PM »
There's some frost on the ground this morning.




tiny Keraji seedling

Ichangquat seedling

pictures taken Feb 26

It might just be me, but the leaves of most of the plants seem to be a slightly less healthy green looking color than they were a few days ago when we started getting some colder nights. (Even though the low points only went down to maybe 27, maybe as low as 24, depending on which official weather source you look at)

I guess even moderately low temperatures in the low 20s (F) can cause some moderate leaf damage if they hit late-February.
This is probably about the closest this area gets to a "late cold snap".

The leaves on the Ichang lemon in a container near the house (but left outside) look okay. I think it might be a little bit of a warmer spot since it's near the house which gives off heat at night. Glad to see the Ichang lemon seems to be handling temperatures better than it seemed to last year.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 17, 2020, 12:52:25 PM »
The weather forecast predicts it could get down to 27 F tomorrow night to early Wednesday morning. I guess that will be the low point of this week.
That's colder than what it's been, but pretty mild by historical averages of what the low points have been in the past.

Right now 37 at 10:00 in the morning, with a high today expected to get up to 48.

The thing about the weather in the PNW (not too far away from the coast) is it's a lot more stable than places in the East that are at lower latitudes, the temperatures do not fluctuate as widely.
The winters in the PNW are also very wet, so I am never worried about plants getting dried out by cold winter winds, like they worry about in other parts of the country. If anything, the worry is about adequate root drainage, since cold wet waterlogged soil could promote root rot.

There are also rarely any of what you could really call "cold snaps" in the PNW, since winter temperatures rarely rise high enough for plants to really begin exiting out of dormancy in the first place, and temperatures typically do not really begin consistently rising until late in the year.

Update February 16 (20 days later) the plant looks like it's still doing surprisingly well, even after having been planted out so early.
I was a little surprised.

This was going from inside under optimal growing conditions, with warmth and artificial LED light, to outside in practically the middle of winter. Other hardy citrus varieties that I have suddenly moved from growing inside to outside early in the year have not done that well. (The leaves turn yellow or patchy white, eventually fall off, there has been stem die-back sometimes, even when outside temperatures have remained above freezing)
To me, this seems to indicate remarkable resiliency. All the newest little leaf growth still appears green and healthy.

(However, this has been a good year, and almost all the other hardy citrus, even marginal varieties, appear to be doing very good left outside, having gone through the winter)

This looks like a plant that can handle sudden temperature change shock well.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu x Poncirus
« on: February 16, 2020, 06:41:42 PM »
Socal2warm, nice! Have you made the cross yourself? No trifoliate leaves? i do not see any on the photo.
seed originally came from Ilya (if I'm remembering correctly)

It has no trifoliate leaves.

The plant is slower growing but vigorous and robust.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: February 16, 2020, 06:29:09 PM »
When I visited (fellow member of this forum) Jim VH, he said he wanted me to try his poncirus plant. He said he had originally grown the plant from seed, and he believed it was special, that the inside of the fruits did not have any bad flavors. He kept insisting I just bite into the fruit.
I initially thought he might be playing a prank on me, get me to bite down and then be stuck with a terrible flavor in my mouth that wouldn't go away.
I cautiously took a little nibble, and then a bigger bite. It did not have any bad or bitter flavors. No poncirus off flavors.
Now it certainly wasn't good fruit quality, but it didn't have anything about it that could really be described as bad. It had a sort of pine-like flavor.
Jim VH believes this could be a special seedling. The plant is about 4 feet tall. (in Vancouver, WA, right across the bridge from Portland)

Now in complete fairness, I've never actually tasted a poncirus fruit before, but I have tasted a few poncirus hybrids (TaiTri, Glen citrangedin), so I have a good idea what the nasty flavor is like.

At least from my personal perspective, and experience eating it, I completely agree with him that his "special" poncirus plant doesn't seem to have any bad flavor, and is edible. Not sweet, mostly insipid and dry, but no characteristic poncirus bad flavor that I can discern.
Jim said the outer rind has some bad poncirus flavor though, just not the inside. The plant certainly looked just like any other poncirus I had seen, more like Flying Dragon. The plant itself did not look anything like a hybrid.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 16, 2020, 03:45:33 PM »
I noticed this morning my purple crocus blooming from bulbs, nearly in full bloom. I know crocus typically blooms early, but February 16 seems a little early, for this climate. There has not really been any bout of warm temperatures so far this February.

I saw another big rhododendron bush in the neighborhood in full bloom, with pink flowers. Most remarkable it seems to be in mostly shade.

The Madake bamboo has very healthy colored green leaves. I mean the leaves have been behaving like an evergreen.
It looks much better than bamboo (presumably Madake) I've seen in zone 9b Japan in early April, which had leaves that looked yellow brown and mostly dead and spent.

The small cork oak seedling has deep green healthy colored leaves, which it has retained from last year. It has behaved as a broadleaf evergreen as well. (I suppose that shouldn't be surprising because it retained its leaves even during the cold last winter, and the leaves remained green, but they look even a slightly healthier shade of green this year).

The cherry tree (ornamental flowering Yoshino) is also beginning to bud out, there's some obvious green on the swelling bud growth.

It's hard to say whether all of this is typical for this area. It's a kind of weird climate here, in many ways. I mean it's cold and far north, but many things do not behave like you would expect for a cold and far north area, it's also a mild cold. Even when it has intensely snowed in the past, the temperature is usually only just slightly below the freezing point.
I'm surprised so many of the plants seem to be waking up so early, when we haven't had any unusual warm spell. It's almost like an early Spring.

Also wanted to mention the rosemary was in bloom with light lavender color flowers in the middle of January, and the temperatures had never got that warm. I read they struggle to even be able to grow rosemary at mid-latitudes on the East Coast.
It hasn't gotten warm this winter, it just hasn't gotten extremely cold.

I even thought about taking pictures because I thought maybe no one would believe me.

I'm also noticing some leaf growth beginning on the rose bushes.
It's not that warm, unless you would consider the 40s (F) to be warm. Maybe one or two days this week had a high of 50 degrees.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 16, 2020, 01:58:17 PM »
Here's the Bloomsweet grapefruit. It isn't looking too bad, leaves still green.

February 16

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Saint Dominic Sour Orange
« on: February 14, 2020, 06:03:44 PM »
Is this sour orange growing outside in Colorado unprotected?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 14, 2020, 01:15:45 PM »
here's the yuzu seedling, February 14, it looks like it's doing very well

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: February 13, 2020, 06:13:38 PM »
Here's the tiny keraji seedling again

February 13, 2020

It's looking good.
it wasn't protected.

I noticed a camellia bush in partial bloom in a neighborhood on the way through Tacoma, also saw a pink rhododendron bush in full bloom near a big apartment building in a semi-protected spot. I even saw a few flowers of something that looked like jasmine, although most of the bush had brown dead leaves. So far it's been a cold but "green" winter (meaning the temperatures haven't really dropped too low).

Here's the Ichang papeda I just planted several months ago:

pretty small size, rooted from cuttings

As you can see, it also has its leaves, still green.

Pretty much almost all the hardy citrus is looking good at this point.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: ichangensis x Satsuma ?
« on: February 03, 2020, 03:32:59 PM »

Here are very small keraji (left) and ichangensis (right) seedlings in the ground (in climate zone 10 ). I hope to eventually make a hybrid (though will have to wait until the plants grow to fruiting size).

(keraji is very closely related to Satsuma but has more hardiness)

I would think such a hybrid should be able to survive in the PNW zone 8a. I would hope it might be able to have a little better fruit quality than yuzu.
I know this is still too early to speculate but just wanted to show the picture.

I just planted it outside into the ground.

I know it's probably far too early, but the temperatures so far in late January have been surprisingly mild and relatively warm.

Jan 26

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 26, 2020, 04:15:04 PM »
The tiny little Keraji seedling is still alive in-ground.

picture taken January 26, 2020

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 26, 2020, 04:10:06 PM »
This is an Ichang Lemon (left) and Bloomsweet (right) in containers, left outside. January 26

The leaves are all still dark green on both of them. They are on the deck up near against the house, but only get a narrow window of morning sun since they are on the north side and shaded for much of the day.
I guess both of these can make it through a mild winter.

This is an observation worth taking into account because I would consider Ichang Lemon and Bloomsweet to be only marginally hardy cold-hardy varieties.

I also left out a MIC in a container right next to them (not shown in picture) and it does not look as well, yellow leaves. Assuming what was actually sold to me were indeed MIC hybrids, it would appear MIC is not really very hardy.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 24, 2020, 12:47:51 PM »
Here's the little Yuzu seeding

January 24, 2020

Although there was some light snow earlier, the winter so far has been pretty mild. It's almost like an early Spring. The grass is very lush and green, and weeds are growing (albeit slowly since the temperatures are still very cool).

I even saw two rhododendron bushes in bloom at a park, with small pink flowers, just a few days ago.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: January 14, 2020, 04:55:46 PM »
Here's a picture of the Citsuma Prague I saw in Jim's yard

(in Vancouver, WA, right across the bridge from Portland)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 14, 2020, 04:18:47 PM »
Here's the Bloomsweet

You can see a clump of snow piled up on the leaves.

Jan 14

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: January 14, 2020, 03:10:58 PM »
Is it the same ichangensis clone? They can vary quite a bit in coldhardiness.
I don't know. They came from two different sources.
But I would still imagine they are probably the same, because ichangensis is pretty rare around here, and people usually do not grow them from seed. (Especially in this short season region, and all the more so because when was the last time you found seeds in an ichangensis fruit?)

(Both came from Portland, but from separate places)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu x Poncirus
« on: January 13, 2020, 08:07:13 PM »
I have a rare ichangensis x poncirus (F2 generation)

(yuzu is pretty closely related to ichangensis, at least genetically)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: citrus grown from seed shows more cold hardiness
« on: January 13, 2020, 07:54:12 PM »
I will be conducting a specific test over this winter.
The below picture shows two Ichang papeda plants, one on trifoliate rootstock, the other rooted from a cutting on its own roots. The one on rootstock (to the left) might just have yellowish leaves because it had been growing in a greenhouse and was brought outside in September. I've found that hardy citruses (of all different types) don't handle rapid temperature changes very well from growing inside a warm area to being placed in the colder temperatures outside (even if it's not extremely cold).

This side by side experiment should be interesting, because I specifically wanted to look at ichangensis and related hardy citrus to ichangensis, and specifically wanted to look at this behavior in zone 8.
Soon we should have a more sure answer whether ichangensis grows better on rootstock or not, when surviving cold climate conditions.

Of course since this is in the PNW climate, cold snaps shouldn't make any difference (the temperatures are pretty steady, it's not going to get warm enough for the plants to come out of dormancy) and things are so wet & damp there's no worry of cold wind causing anything to dry out.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 13, 2020, 07:40:12 PM »
Here you can see what the Yuzu looks like right now

Seems to be doing decently well. We had some light snow stick on the ground this morning, but it is all gone by now.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrus in the Pacific Northwest
« on: January 13, 2020, 12:43:38 AM »
A light snow began falling for the first time this Winter.
January 12 (2020).
Hoping for a mild winter, but not expecting it.
I'm expecting the coldest temperatures will come in mid-January to the first ten days of February.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus Grow Tent Problems
« on: December 28, 2019, 02:45:16 AM »
It's a common problem people not realizing that their plant needs a bigger container.
The amount of root space should roughly match the upper size of the plant. Root issues can easily show up in the health of the leaves.

The other thing to realize is that growing inside a grow tent, there will almost always eventually be a spider mite problem.
(It is possible to completely get rid of all spider mites, once and for all, but only after repeated treatments, and it can take a long time, and if you introduce one more plant in there from outside, the problem is very likely to start all over again)

The first thing you should do is inspect the leaves of your plant very carefully to make sure you don't have spider mites. That can cause leaf yellowing.

I find that regular white (5000K) LED bulbs work better than the red/blue grow LEDs, but probably what would theoretically be the most optimal is some combination of the two different types together.

Humidity never seemed to be a problem with my citrus inside grow tents, so long as it was enclosed and the soil was kept from completely drying out. In my experience, I don't think you have to really worry about the humidity. (As long as it is inside the grow tent and enclosed, the tent will hold in humidity)
Temperature can be a little bit of an issue, but only if the ambient temperature inside your house is constantly cold. If you are living there and very often have the heat on in the winter, it shouldn't be an issue. (It's not an issue in this case of hurting the plant, but simply the citrus plant not really growing)

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