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Messages - loneroc1

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Trifoliate graft incompatibilities?
« on: November 18, 2020, 09:14:04 AM »
Howdy Brian,

Traditionally, the Japanese would bridge graft between the PT/FD and the mandarin before the shouldering restricted sap flow excessively.  This was typically done with yuzu scions and would extend the trees' productive lifespan indefinitely.  I'm not sure if other scions would also work.

Given the horticultural skills of the Japanese, they've no doubt created a magical rootstock that eliminates the problem, but the traditional remedy might be just the ticket.   I have several mandarins planted in the ground in my greenhouse and their bud unions look like yours.  I plan on picking up a yuzu in the near future to give the method a shot.

Steve H. USDA zone 3, SW Wisconsin USA

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Name that rootstock!
« on: October 24, 2020, 06:08:35 AM »
Howdy.  I got an STF lemon from Four Winds a couple of years ago.  An employee I spoke with at the time said that it was on C-35, which was what they were using on all their trees except for a few mandarins.  As of then they were no longer using the Cuban shaddock which had been their primary rootstock for decades.  I was told that they had never used Flying Dragon.  Four Winds had never been particularly forthcoming with rootstock information in my experience. A super secret trade secret apparently.  It took at least half a dozen calls to find someone who was willing to talk about their rootstock(s). 

I'm keeping the STF lemon in a pot. I think it'd be too vigorous to join the rest of my citrus trees, all planted in ground on Flying Dragon.

Steve H.  USDA zone 3, SW WI USA

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Kanuma as a soil amendment
« on: October 03, 2020, 08:47:22 AM »
Yeah, my water is crap.  A few years back I put in a deeper well.  I swapped my 15 foot deep sand point, which essentially provided soft rainwater, for a much deeper well laden with minerals. Before I realized what was happening I lost hundreds of plants.
Some of the bonsai sites recommend the use of kanuma as an additive to decrease pH of the medium.  For true acidophiles, such as rhododendron, straight kanuma is the medium of choice. As you might expect, there are nearly as many online opinions as posters.  One of the things I like about the TF forum is the stock most members place on actual scientific data.  It's a refreshing viewpoint now that we live in a post-truth world.   We'll see how it goes.--- Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Kanuma as a soil amendment
« on: October 02, 2020, 10:28:49 AM »
Howdy all,
My well water is fairly high in pH and dissolved solids.  It's a constant effort to maintain an acid soil condition, especially for my potted citrus.  I recently got ahold of some kanuma "soil". It has a tan perlite-like appearance and feel and it's very acidic in reaction.  It's a volcanic stone used by bonsai enthusiasts and is imported from Japan.  It's often used straight for bonsai azaleas and other acidophiles.

Has anyone tried this as a soil amendment for potted citrus?  I thought I'd give it a try and see if it helps maintain an acid condition in citrus potting "soil".   Thanks!  Steve H.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Low biuret urea?
« on: February 27, 2020, 09:57:12 PM »
Thanks!  I won't worry then and will keep using it for ground application.  Steve H.

Citrus General Discussion / Low biuret urea?
« on: February 27, 2020, 04:55:13 PM »
Howdy all!

Can anyone tell me if biuret damages all parts of citrus trees, or just the leaves?

I have a lifetime supply of a generic 30-10-10 soluble acidifying fertilizer la Miracid.  I don't know its sources of nitrogen but I've used it on citrus roots many times without obvious damage. What type of nitrogen did acid fertilizer contain 25 years ago? That's when I picked up 200 one pound packages of the stuff.  I transferred them to 5 gallon buckets and don't have the original label.  It was a great deal.  Through a weird combination of a sale and rebate the store paid me a buck and a half for each box I "bought".  Needless to say I took all they had and made $300 in the process. I still have about 50 pounds.  Which should last me a while.  Thanks! Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Re: florida citrus?
« on: February 16, 2020, 06:21:14 AM »
Howdy Brian,  How are you growing your Minneola tree(s)?  I've got a variegated one planted in ground in my Wisconsin greenhouse.  Minneolas are my favorite citrus.  They bring back memories of the Florida roadside fruit stands we'd stop at on family vacations when I was a kid.  Are you getting fruit from your variegated tree yet?  Are you doing anything special for the tree (music.... or hula videos maybe:)?  Or do you think it might just be the young age of the tree?

Thanks!  Steve H, SW WI USA, USDA zone 3

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Bark inversion tutorial
« on: July 22, 2019, 09:26:19 AM »
Howdy all,

Two questions:
Anyone try this on trees grafted to Flying Dragon?
Is there any effect on fruit quality?

OK four questions
Would this be useful on potted trees? (I'm mostly thinking of lemons here.)
Does the width of the removed bark strip have any consequences?

Thanks Steve H.

Has anyone had success with GN in a greenhouse?  I've got one on Flying Dragon planted in the ground.  It produces lanky growth which I've been working to contain. Also have had no fruit so far. The commercial GN fruit I've eaten has been inconsistent bur mostly pretty good.  I planted it because of its late fruiting.  There's very little later winter fruit here in zone 3 (minus40F/C here this year). Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Ancient lemon cultivation?
« on: May 25, 2019, 09:33:27 PM »
I'm finding that if I shake all the soilless medium of the roots of many plants (including citrus and roses) and plant them in the garden for the summer they do fine when I dig them up in the fall and stick them in a smallish pot of plain ole garden dirt. It's kind of disconcerting in a way. I'm curious how this relates to traditional pre-perlite container cultivation.


Citrus General Discussion / Ancient lemon cultivation?
« on: May 24, 2019, 06:18:28 AM »
Howdy all,

How do you grow a lemon in a pot for a hundred years, or two or three centuries? The Italians can do it. What's their secret?  Composted pine bark, perlite, turface, plastic pots, no heater outages.....osmocotio?

Thanks!  Steve H   SW Wisconsin USA zone 3  - 40F/C this past winter. - 53F all time low. - 48F in my lifetime.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: How to prevent ants going up your trees
« on: September 01, 2018, 07:04:20 PM »
Howdy, (or g'day if you prefer). Instead of using tape how about painting the trunk? At least a ring around it.  Then apply Vaseline or tangle foot without damaging the trunk? Anyone try it that way?

In my greenhouse, ants move around soft brown scale and to a lesser extent aphids.  I'd have to cover the grease in any case because I don't want my lizards getting stuck.  Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Natural pest control
« on: September 01, 2018, 10:36:35 AM »
Brian, on your lizard pest control idea:

Anolis caroliniensis, the American chameleon, would be a good one. They can survive cool / cold winter temps. The problem you'll run into is that without vitamin D and probably additional calcium your lizards won't last long. They need UV B light to synthesize vitamin d and without it you'll need more than the "wild" greenhouse bugs to keep them going.

My greenhouse is covered with double panel uv transmitting acrylic. I wanted full spectrum light and this is what lizards will need.

You might want to try the house or Mediterranean geckos. Being nocturnal, they don't need uvb. I think they'd need quite a bit more heat than the anole though.    Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Re: in-ground in-greenhouse
« on: August 22, 2018, 10:44:44 AM »
Howdy Brian,

The variegated Minneola you show looks like it's from a Harris batch that has two-toned green variegation but no white, and will not likely produce striped fruit. If that matters to you. There are several current threads on this issue on the GW citrus forum  Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Xie Shan in a pot?
« on: August 07, 2018, 12:02:43 PM »

Xie Shan in a pot?

Howdy all,

I've got a gallon XS on Flying Dragon. I intended on planting it (in-ground) in my greenhouse. I just got a 3 gallon Hirado Buntan (on FD) I couldn't resist from Harris, a beautiful tree. I have space to plant one more tree, anything else will have to remain in pots. I'm now leaning toward putting the HB in the ground and keeping XS potted.
Here's my dilemma: Although I've never tasted it, XS is supposed to be the finest, earliest satsuma. My experience with mandarins (I have 3 in-ground) is that they take several years to produce good or even just edible fruit. And I've read that XS is supposed to take longer to flavor up than most. If XS takes a long time in the ground will it ever taste great when grown in a pot?
So.....if you grow XS:
What rootstock is it on?
How long have grown it?
What size pot do you have it in now?
What potting medium?
What's your temperature range?
And most important of all, does yours taste great?
Steve H
SW WI, USDA zone 3~4
Greenhouse is a zone 10, but cool in winter

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie shan
« on: July 13, 2018, 04:07:02 PM »
Stan McKenzie carries Xie Shan.

I got an XS on Flying Dragon from him about two months ago.

It's not on his website but give him a call and see if he still has any (843) 373-8547


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Large leaves
« on: July 05, 2018, 07:41:20 AM »
Hey Too Far,

What fertilizer are you using? Any changes in timing, amount or formula? Are all the trees extra lush, or just certain ones?

loneroc1  Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / C-22 rootstock?
« on: June 16, 2018, 12:40:04 PM »
Howdy all,

Does anyone have personal experience with the C-22 rootstock? It was released a while back as 'Bitters'.  I've read what I could find on line, but commercial growing experience doesn't always correlate well with home growing.

Thanks! Steve H.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: new greenhouse planning
« on: June 15, 2018, 09:51:21 PM »
Howdy all,

I've been watching Brian's project for a couple of years now. My 32 x 16 greenhouse with in-ground plantings is up and running, though I went for pressure treated and redwood construction, glazed with operable glass units for the walls and uv transmitting double walled acrylic for the roof.

I'm in zone 3/4 and when it's -20F out two 30K btu heaters keep temps well above freezing. My goal is just to keep things just above freezing.  Here's my dilemma: I went with one Southern Burner ventless heater which needs no electricity to operate, not even a battery for the thermostat. (The other is a direct vent propane heater which requires an electric thermostat.)  When I bought the SB it was advertised as coming with a thermostat that would go down to 35F. Just above freezing so I was fine with that. I want the SB to be the primary heater. Well, when it arrived it came with a RoberstShaw millivolt thermostat that could only be set down to 39F.  When I called to inquire/complain I was told that RobertShaw thermostats now only go as low as 45F. and SB was aware of no other millivolt thermostat that had a lowered set temperature. I found another 39 F stat on ebay so I have a backup, sort of. I'd rather  not heat to 39, let alone 45. Is my SB furnace soon to be useless?  I like the reliability of needing no electricity.

The best suggestion SB could offer was to try to find an old millivolt thermostat wit a mercury switch and mount it on a slant.    My, what a helpful suggestion that was.  How can I operate the SB at near freezing temperatures? Or is my desire to heat without electrical back up doomed?

Any ideas? Thanks! Steve H SW WI USA USDA Zone 4.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: C35 rootstock tree size
« on: May 24, 2018, 08:56:46 AM »
Howdy all,

I called 4 Winds yesterday and was told that they've stopped using Cuban shaddock and now use C35 for (almost?) everything.  I had been wondering what my Santa Teresa was on.

I've not been able to get through to Kendra at 4W, who's the authority on their trees, in several weeks of trying so I called the on-line order #.  I'll keep trying to talk to Kendra and I'll post if she tells me something different.

Steve H.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pavlovsky lemon
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:06:50 AM »
Hi again all,

I read through the most recent USDA-APHIS regulations regarding importation of Citrus sp. seed to the US and it looks like it's still allowed from Europe, including the former CCCP countries.  There are a few paperwork and inspection requirements beyond merely dropping the seeds in the mail.

Does anyone know of a reputable source for seed of the Pavlovsky lemon?  I'm happy to pay the costs incurred, of course. I don't have any citrus material to exchange but I live in an extremely cold part of the US and I can offer W.C. and cultivated seed of many northern North American natives.

Thanks,   Steve H      You can email me directly at:   loneroc1 at gmail dot com.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lemon re-potting
« on: March 17, 2018, 03:25:02 PM »

You are welcome. I thought European type lemons didn't grow well in the tropics. Evidently they do. Or maybe, like the rest of us, you love a challenge!   Steve H

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lemon re-potting
« on: March 17, 2018, 08:47:40 AM »
Hi Lory,

There are very few horticultural absolutes.  One of them is that potted terrestrial plants should always be stepped up gradually to reach the ultimate desired pot size. A typical  nursery pot sequence would be (in US measurements) 1 gallon, 3 gallon, 5 gallon and so on. A good rule of thumb is to repot into a pot that is three fingerwidths wider than your plant all around the root ball.

The problem with going from a small pot to a much larger pot is that there is a large volume of soil where water stagnates and organic matter decomposes under anaerobic conditions,  producing by-products that are toxic to the roots. Citrus are particularly sensitive to this. The goal is to have all the soil in the container accessible to the plant's roots. (You can plant aquatics such as water lilies directly into a large pot because their roots are adapted to stagnant waterlogged soil.)

Good luck, Steve H

Once you've reached the final sized pot some plants can remain in that pot indefinitely. Some plants do fine when root bound and even prefer it. Bougainvillea comes to mind. You just need to fertilize regularly. However, many woody plants will need to be root pruned at regular intervals to maintain the desired size or to replenish nutrients that have been exhausted. Think bonsai. And citrus, though not all growers are willing to spend a weekend root pruning and repotting a very large citrus tree. Your mileage may vary.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Pavlovsky lemon
« on: March 16, 2018, 07:40:50 PM »
Tee-hee, I guess I should've looked closer.  The funny thing is that I studied Russian in high school and didn't even pick up on it.

Do we have these lemons in the US anywhere? Maybe an old lady in New York whose grandmother carried the lemon seeds in the hem of her skirt grows it?

But seriously, it seems as though Pavlovsky would be an invaluable addition to domestic horticulture. No sunroom, grow lights, or south facing picture window needed.

Citrus General Discussion / Pavlovsky lemon
« on: March 14, 2018, 09:27:53 AM »
Howdy all,

Has anyone heard of or grown the Pavlovsky lemon?

It appears to be a lemon that was selected by residents of several central Russian cities over the course of two centuries specifically for growing in the home. Looks like it's offered by several eastern European nurseries.

Steve H

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