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Messages - hardyvermont

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Bark inversion tutorial
« on: June 27, 2020, 02:29:51 PM »
Sylvain, a warning sign pops up when your link is opened.

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Millet, it would be a good experiment to plant a poncirus on the north side of a building and protect it from the wind.  That way cold tolerance could be tested apart from the desiccation  of sun and wind. 

In the earlier citrus forum someone posted pictures of citrus kept in total darkness for weeks without leaf drop. as long as they were kept very cold. 

Someone in Massachusettes posted on that forum pictures of a frame covered with a tarp and kept heated with an aquarium heater in a trash barrel. 

It goes against the grain to think that plants could do better in the dark, but having transparent covers raises the intererior temperature and makes plants less dormant. 

A 10 x 17 carport from Harbor Freight covers an Owari in zone 8a for 3 to 4 months every year, with no leaf drop and large crops of fruit.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ichangensis froze to death, then bloomed.
« on: June 17, 2020, 11:02:35 AM »
Hardening before winter can be more important than variety.  Several seedlings of different hardy crosses died back to the ground last year, while neglected Owari growing in cups and underfertilized  survived the winter unscathed. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Australian Desert Lime hardy to -11f?
« on: May 02, 2020, 10:20:43 AM »
On an old forum there was speculation that there was a mistake about hardiness, possibly because of confusion between degrees F and C, and that the mistake had been copied.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Pinkish Purple flower buds
« on: April 08, 2020, 09:21:59 AM »
Interesting, I wonder if Miho was a mother plant?
It seems that this hybrid is unifolate that is very unusual for F1 hybrids with poncirus.

Good observation.  Unifoliate leaves nearest the flowers, older leaves are trifoliate.  Miho was the mother.

Better picture of color, taken in morning light.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Pinkish Purple flower buds
« on: April 07, 2020, 08:32:44 PM »
After several years, a cross between Miho and Poncirus is about to bloom.  The pinkish purple color is slightly more intense than shown, and the smallest buds have more color.  I have only seen this color on lemons and limes before. 

I am going to plant my seed grown meiwa kumquat tree in a raised hard pan clay hill so that it will grow in a slow cold hardy compact form to see how it handles cold weather.
Try high grafting Meiwa at 4 ft onto poncirus and let some of the poncirus side shoots grow.  Multiple very high graphs of 50% poncirus  hybrids survived without damage 6 degrees F several years ago.  My bought Meiwa is only now ripening fruit and  Marumi was ripe last month, so it may not be ideal unless they can be persuaded to bloom earlier. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: March 02, 2020, 11:57:57 AM »
Barring an unusual change in weather, there will be little to no cold damage this winter. Even the Meyer lemon seedling shows no real damage. Fortunately, the previous winter eliminated the tender seedlings. The protective structure was successful, but not really needed. The lowest temperature to this point has been +10 degrees F., not really zone 6b weather. This is 22 degrees F. warmer than last winter's low.

Meyer lemon unharmed, and unlikely to be harmed.

Was the Meyer Lemon protected? 
Several of my seedlings that are hardier than Meyer have shown damage, and the low here was 20 F


Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 09:08:57 PM »
Do you still have any of the hybrids?  Have you tried growing an F2 population or backcrossing to the precocious trifoliate?
If the hybrids still exist, I am interested in scions and/or seeds.
No flowers yet on F1, when that happens will there will be multiple crosses.  Growing them with one leader to speed up maturity, hopefully this spring or next will have flowers.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 02:40:30 PM »
Hardyvermont, very interesting, what kind of cross have you made? With citrus or another poncirus? Are you sure to produce hybrid zygotes?

It seems there are at least two other cases of precocious poncirus arising spontaneously.
Indian strain   and Japanese one.
In the latter case it was produced by inbred selfing and  a conclusion was that
"the findings suggest that the precocious flowering is controlled by recessive genes present heterozygously in normal trifoliate orange".
Yes, hybrids produced, basing this on trifoliate offspring of satsuma and others. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 01:32:32 PM »
It does not appear that the Precocious Poncirus when used as a male causes the offspring to bloom as early as the parent. 
Why do you think so? Some experience?
 In the case of Chinese  precocious strain the trait was not heriditable at all, probably too many genes involved.
Yes, my experiences. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 28, 2020, 10:18:41 PM »
It does not appear that the Precocious Poncirus when used as a male causes the offspring to bloom as early as the parent.  Will take a few more years to learn if it may cause slightly earlier blooming, or if 1/4 of the F2 will bloom as early as Precocious.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Ginger lime seeds
« on: January 25, 2020, 10:21:49 PM »
Here is another description here:

That site does not seem to be working.  A warning appears that says it could be dangerous. 

Now comment appears "site not found"

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: January 20, 2020, 05:38:13 PM »
not really off-topic but beside-topic :)

these are Poncirus seedlings all siblings, same age, same treatment.

Mikkel, what has happened to those plants since you posted.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citsuma Prague
« on: December 13, 2019, 02:06:05 PM »
Great to see your pictures.  What is the size of the fruit?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu x Poncirus
« on: December 11, 2019, 02:17:32 PM »
Beautiful plant Till,  the  thrill one gets when nearly a year of anticipation after making a cross, a different kind of leaf shows up.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: December 08, 2019, 03:53:47 PM »
My Home Depot has Thermo Cube as a seasonal item.  They had 4 and would not be restocking.  They are also available on Amazon. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost Protection
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:20:09 PM »
A 250 watt space heater for $12 is enough to keep a tarp covered area 10 x 17 near or above freezing most winters.  Citrus go dormant in cold weather, I am still learning how long they can be kept covered without damage.  Last an Owari was kept mostly in the dark until April, and had a large crop of fruit this year.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Texas Keraji Mandarin
« on: November 03, 2019, 11:28:49 AM »
Keraji is easy to peel and tastes like lemonade.  Not like a lemon.  Changsha is bland unless you get a better selection.  You could try Ichang Lemon

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: True hardiness of Flying Dragon
« on: October 30, 2019, 10:13:57 PM »
Poncirus are susceptible to drying out.  Grown in an area that is in the shade and out of the wind in the winter, plants survived where they were damaged or died elsewhere on my property.  Poncirus are understory trees.  I believe they were growing in zone 5a.  There are differences in deciduousness in trees, also younger trees tend to keep their leaves which makes a difference in surviving cold, and there are probably hardier selections. 

Covering with frost cloth for a few winters would reduce sun and wind exposure until trees become more cold tolerant. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My first poncirus marmalade tastes good.
« on: October 29, 2019, 11:31:51 AM »
I basically followed the sure-jell recipe but pored off the boiled water from the chopped peels and just added the peels to the fruit pulp/ juice. It ended up being 2.75 cups of pulp/juice and 1.25 cups of water, sure-jell, 5.5 cups of sugar. The final product tastes like a strong yet sweet orange marmalade with no bitterness. There was no resin sticking to my teeth after eating the marmalade either. I just used standard poncirus trifoliata fruit for this batch, not the flying dragon.

I made this a few years ago and poured the water off several times as recommended by the recipe.  Is that what you did?  Never kept the pulp.  How did you separate the pulp from the seeds?

In final product different kinds of citrus skin were added to tone down bitterness and for more flavor.

Look up Helena Chemical.  They seem to have retail stores all over the country.

Hardy Vermont, great recommendation.  Sugar Belle came to my mind also.  If I'm correct, I believe Sugar Belle shows some tolerance to HLB but is not actually resistant.  Is this your understanding?
Yes, that is my understanding.  It has the disease present but it does not show greening symptoms. 
"Sugar Belle flopped in its original release because it came out right around the same time HLB started causing major concern. The one grower that did buy the trees at that time, however, let them live after they became infected when they were 2 years old. Now 10 years old, the trees are still beautiful and productive, Gmitter said"

I have now lost most of the 20 or so mature citrus trees I have planted over the years.  I am afraid to due to HRB I have planted my last citrus tree.  From everything I have read the experts are really no closer to finding a cure or solution than they were at the beginning.

Please give me one good reason to still plant citrus.  I am afraid HRB has won and no cure will be found in my lifetime.  I will continue to plant other fruit trees, but sadly I think I will never plant another citrus tree again.  Anyone want to try and convince me otherwise?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: When to Plant in The Ground.
« on: August 15, 2019, 03:15:32 PM »
hartyvermont, thanks for your post.  After reasoning your post I can see your reasoning.  What is your planting advise is a area such as Colorado?  Actually I don't see much success in Colorado, plus my location is a 5,440-ft elevation. We really do not cool down slowly.  All of a sudden a cold front comes off the mountains and the temperature drops suddenly.
Plant them where they do not get direct sun in the winter, out of the wind.  That could be on the north side of a building or the north side of evergreen trees.  Poncirus trees do well as understory, they do not require full sun.  This combination of wind break and shade has worked where other planting situations either died back or were killed. 

As for the sudden temperature drops, it will be a learning experience to see if it works.  There is some evidence that some Poncirus are more deciduous than others, my plants kept some of their leaves, they are also supposed to become more deciduous with age. 

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