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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 20, 2018, 07:15:29 PM »
I feel for you on this subject.  Check out Uromys caudimaculatus (can grow 3 times the size of a black rat) and or Hydromys chrysogaster ( there is a family using my fountain at night )  They eat my seeds and cut down the small trees from ground level for bedding material.  I use wire over seed pots. Generally catch them in cages with peanut butter and relocate.

To my understanding, feral cats in parts of Australia have brought many species to the brink of extinction.
Many reasons why I support spayed or neutered cats.
I thought there were other apex predators and cats were slightly below them.
Same problem with cats here. I think that is the only down side of cats. Domesticated cats often go feral and hunt out our native species of birds. But i think most of the damage has already been done.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 19, 2018, 06:56:15 PM »
Yeah, agreed, cats are the best rodent solution. Not just ofr the garden, but also for rodents coming in the house. Just don't over feed them, or they will get spoiled and not do their job.

I think Noris Ledesma has been trying to propagate this at Fairchild farm unsuccessfully.
Their attempts were with grafting scion, not seeds. They were unsuccesful first few years because they did not have appropriate rootstock, Will not take on most mangiferas. I believe now they have appropriate rootstock.

If you grow mango you should have no problem with Wani. Treat it same way as mango. Just lay the seed on side when planting. If you carefully remove the husk it will germinate faster, but it's not necessary to do so. Occasional flooding should be ok.

IUCN has two separate categories, "Extinct in the wild", and "Extinct".  This one is listed as simply "Extinct".  See the above link and the categories on the top bar.

I do expect that the most probable answer is that Jim's ID is wrong.  But if it's not, he could be singlehandedly saving a species from extinction. which is just spectacular.

That's BTW one thing in general that I love about people on this forum  :)   All too often as I've been going through old threads I've run into people going out of their way to find species that are rapidly seeing their limited habitats destroyed due to development or agriculture - trees that were only found due to a couple specimens in the wild, in areas bound for destruction.  It may be beyond our capabilities as individuals to prevent global habitat loss, but it warms the heart to see these rare and amazing species being saved.  :)
I guess it would be very difficult for organizations to know what every single collector has in their collections, and whether a species is really completely extinct. Will ask Jim about this species. It's possible he named it wrong. There are no close by universities or authorities, and he often names things based on his own books and his own best guess at the moment.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Rats Started Eating My Papayas
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:10:29 PM »
A piece of sheet metal around the trunk will make it too slippery for them to climb up.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Che AKA Chinese Mulberry
« on: March 18, 2018, 07:06:23 PM »
I have only ever ate 1 and it was rather dry and gritty (think of a mouth full of ground egg shells with a bit of flavoring ) all tho i have heard they are quite good and juicy that is why i was asking if there where good named cultivars, before i start looking for wood.                           Patrick
Sounds like it was not properly ripened.

Don't know the answer, but doesn't "extinct" sometimes mean "extinct in the wild"? So if that is correct, then an extinct species could be in private collections.
Following page from USDA seems to give that definition of the word extinct:
from 2015 NAL Glossary (2014)
by United States Department of Agriculture, National Agricultural Library
"extinct species": Those species no longer known to exist after repeated search of the type localities and other known or likely places. Some species may be extinct in the wild but are being preserved by cultivation in gardens or as domesticated animals.
BTW, i think a lot of rare fruit trees are headed in this direction of extinction, but with luck present in some private collections.  Look at this lists i posted of endangered fruit trees (in 2 parts, list was too long to post in only one message):

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Papaya question
« on: March 18, 2018, 05:39:11 AM »
I have a Papaya tree growing in Scottsdale,  AZ.  Been in ground 3 years.  At least 15 feet tall.  Constantly with fruit.  Bought it as an unnamed seedling at a garden event.
Problem is, I don't like the taste of the fruit.  Kind of has an unpleasant aftertaste.
Anyone have recommendation for easy to find varieties, that would be on the high end of the flavor profile?
In your climate zone no papaya is going to taste very good in winter or fall. They need warm weather to develop good sweet taste. Good complete fertilizer will also help.

Sorry didn't finish that post.The sibabat band black one obviously are the better types and have real commercial potential if they are productive enough.

Look at one report from 1981
Native bulala can be found in the Philippine mountains, but the fruit is poor. It is, however, used by most propagators as root stock for pulasan because of its strong growth. The introduced pulasan is of a very fine quality, and many who have tasted the fruit consider it superior to that of the Chinese litchi.
The pulasan is a tree that will adapt from sea level to some 300 metres. In fact, in Jakarta, they are raised between 230 and 300 metres above Sea level. It prefers a well-distributed rainfall and is more resistant to drought than the rambutan.
The first imports to the Philippines were from Indonesia in 1912 and were grown from seed. However, the more successful pulasan was introduced as a budded plant, but its variety is not known. The fruit are of very fine quality, and it is suspected that it is of the sibabat variety. Some of the commercial varieties in Indonesia are koeneng, merah, poetih and sibabat.

The Kamerung varieties from the 1970s were,
Pulasan varieties: Dow, Lee, P1, P3, P36, Sibabat, Unnamed
There were others that were brought in the 1980s.
I have fruiting bulala, and wouldn't say the fruit quality is poor. They are not as good as pulasan or rambutan, but still pretty darned good, and extremely  productive.a They are very juicy and have unique taste.  The bulala are compatible with pulasan but not a great rootstock as it tends to sprout a lot below the graft and eventually overpowers the scion if not very regularly pruned back.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Che AKA Chinese Mulberry
« on: March 18, 2018, 03:13:42 AM »
I think this fruit tastes very nice. Very juicy, with a  juice tasting very similar to watermelon juice. Unfortunately they don't do well in tropical climate.

Its all a bit hazy now Oscar but I did genuinely line them up and consume them together before and came to that conclusion at the time. I don't know if the fruit have changed or I have since then.
March is the peak month here for durian, langsat relatives, pulasan, rambutan, keledang,marang and maybe even mahgosteen.Because of rainfall and altitude variation in short distances there is a bit of variation and the season is lengthened because of it for many species,
Seeds of species supposedly with long juvenile development periods like ilama,and pulasan that I have received through this forum are productive fruiting trees now.
Actually Mike you went further and said years before that nobody planted pulasan in Australia because they were considered inferior in taste to rambutan. GASP!

Plarnt it. (You can plant them even before they root.)

Oh yeah taste.....and after consuming lots of rambutans specifically and fruit in generally lately I have a re-tuned my taste buds and redeveloped a 'cultured palate'. I have consumed the best rambutans lately like R167,R9,R156 and R134 which I reckon is the best.So how do these pulasan compare? They blow the rambutans away having a more complex taste that is sweeter and less acidic and the testa seed coat does not come away. Are pulasn better than rambutan? You bet they are.

I still remember your posts years ago when you claimed that pulasans were inferior to rambutans. I'm glad you finally sorted that out.  ;D There's always so much to learn in the tropical fruit world!
Funny you are getting pulasans at same time as durian and duku. I have rambutans, durians, and duku langsat now, but pulasans here usually fruit in early fall.

I planted 3 in ground.  They lasted 2-3 years, but did poorly, never reaching above - few feet high.  They definitely did not do  well in my yard.   As a comparison, I have had luck with breadfruit.
Probably the soil rather than the climate. Breadfruits are very tolerant of limestone, in fact they grow on coral atoll islands. Not sure, but perhaps the marang can't take the high pH of your soils?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mabolo question .
« on: March 15, 2018, 04:39:35 AM »
Thank You Karen , but I am still not convinced ....for comparison my grafted rambuttan for example , same thing ...plenty of fruit and no male in 100 km range .
Female mabolo trees will produce by themselves, but will be seedless. Your rambutan tree definitely has some hermaphrodite flowers which produce some pollen, and that is why you are getting fruits. But if you had a male rambutan tree around you would get a lot more fruit, as in completely loaded.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: dwarf mulchi ID
« on: March 15, 2018, 12:29:34 AM »
Dear Jim

Is it difference with giant mulch? I thought only size difference....

Plinia inflata has 2 varieties, one with regular fruit and one with giant fruit.

Plinia salticola = dwarf mulchi = it's own species

BTW this Lucia Kawasaki is a machine. Someone send her Ross Sapote and Luc's Garcinia for IDing
That's almost correct, except that the giant mulchi is a selection of a seedling mulchi that happened to produce large fruits. Wouldn't call it a variety. Don't even know. if the size is a stable trait.
Who is this Lucia Kawasaki?

South FL is the same climate as mine , 20 degrees North , I have fruiting marang at 300 meters above sea level .
Southernmost point in Florida is 25 degrees, very different from 20 where you're at. A more comparable city in Mexico to S. Florida latitude would be Nuevo Leon, very far to the north of Pto. Vallarta. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: dwarf mulchi ID
« on: March 13, 2018, 06:26:00 PM »
Giant mulchi is Plinia inflata, so a different species than the dwarf.
I think Jim has very sporadic internet access, so hard for him to post. But thanks Jim for sending this update. Been wondering about this one for a long time.
PS have seeds of the dwarf mulchi right now, if anyone is interested, please check my website.

There is a company in Texas making skin care products from sausage tree:

Only as an ornamental. It is very popular in botanical gardens because they are so strange looking with all the sausages hanging in mid air. I put sausage tree in same league with cannonball tree, also very strange looking and wonderful to look at, but strictly ornamental.

Agree with Oscar it is indigenous to this country and I have never heard it used as even a famine crop only ornamental and traditionally medicinal.

Ah forget it ( the traditional medicine ) , no idea what they use it for Stuart but if I ever need it or could be useful for curing this ( unidentified ) poisonous sting / bite that I got on my hand and 3 weeks later still has not healed , there probably will be no fruit available . Too bad , the flower is very nice and when loaded with pods it is a nice conversation tree . Chainsaw it will be .
Or just buy another piece of land and expand.  ;)

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kesusu (Prainea limpato) Germination
« on: March 12, 2018, 05:38:58 PM »
A hardware cloth cover over the tray solves the rodent problem withe precious seeds.

I am surprised that this fruit never caught on commercially, because it fruits so well and can be really excellent eating. Also some types store very well. There was an attermpt to commercialize it i think duirng the 40's in the Fallbrook area of southern California. There are still some remnant orchards there.

They are extremely productive in the right climate. Remember trees being totally loaded with fruits. Here in Hawaii they are not nearly as productive.

What do you consider the right climate?

Not to answer for him, but all of the info I find says it prefers a somewhat Mediterranean climate - lots of sun, not too much humidity, not excessive rain, doesn't really like "ultratropical" locations.  Loves California and its native Mexico in particular.  But you can still grow it in places like Florida (although not on limestone)

In general, it seems to rather like being treated like a citrus.  Which I guess makes sense, given that it's in the Rutaceae family.
Yes, what Karen said is correct. White sapote seems widely adapted. Will grow and fruit fine here in the tropics, but it is happier in drier areas, like Kona. Where it is very rainy the tree and fruits are more disease prone and bears more lightly. In cooler drier areas like San Diego it explodes with fruit. Don't know how many tons/hectare, but yes it is extremely productive. Reminds me of persimmons, which also got loaded with fruits in San Diego at similar time of year.

They are extremely productive in the right climate. Remember trees being totally loaded with fruits. Here in Hawaii they are not nearly as productive.

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