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Messages - Walt

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: What kind of citrus is this?
« on: November 03, 2018, 04:09:17 PM »
What Citrange reported above says that genes for not liking trifoliate orange is common, it is not universal. 
More to the point, I'm trying to use trifoliate oranges to get more winter hardy citrus that taste good.  I might end up developing hardier citrus that taste good to a small group of people, but not for most people.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: What kind of citrus is this?
« on: November 02, 2018, 03:43:40 PM »
Years ago I taught high school biology.  There were a bunch of papers for tasting to see who could taste what was on a given strip of paper.  There were several different flavors, ability to taste a given chemical is due to a different gene.
I was warned not to give them to students to take home and chart the genes throughout their family tree, as biology classes had done before, because it had lead to law suits when students found out they had genes that neither of their parents had.  It had also lead to divorces.
So we don't all taste the same chemicals.  They most commonly used example is in brassicas (cabbage family).  Many people find brassicas quite bitter.  Others don't taste the bitterness at all.
So while I am quite aware of what is going on, I am suprized to find it in citrus.

For what its worth, I didn't find any bitterness at all in citandarin US 852.  I understand that most people do.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 01, 2018, 02:59:28 PM »
Things are moving along, finally.
Seed arrived from Ilya from N1triVoss, and they are planted.  US852 came from Stan of US 852 and 100 seeds were planted this morning.  A plant of Flying Dragon is here.  Plants of Changsha and US 852 are here.  Mr. Hong, of Hong's landscape in Wichita, KS, let me collect all the fruit I wanted from his trees, bushes really.  Lots of seeds are in pots but most are still in the fruit.
All the planted seeds are in pots in the bathroom, the warmest room in the house.
The US 852 fruit are not nearly as bad as I expected, but very sour.
I have a citangre a few years old, and a citremelo, both of a size that might possibly bloom next year, but more likely a year or two later.I also have a nameless fingerlime of blooming size, and a bunch of seedlings from named varieties from seeds from John Dyson.
Walt, Kansas #1 citrus breeder.  (That is meant to be funny.  I'm sure Kansas has no other citrus breeder.)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: First fruits of Citrumelo 5star x Morton cross
« on: November 01, 2018, 02:40:18 PM »
This is very encouraging.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: What kind of citrus is this?
« on: November 01, 2018, 02:21:20 PM »
I've been "threshing" trifoliatas for seed.  I tried letting the juice sit overnight in the refridgerater, then trying the juice.  Sure, I could have drank it with sugar and water, but why bother?  It just didn't seem worth the bother.  Trifoliata needs some serious breeding if it is ever going to be anything but a root stock.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Large poncyrus fruit!
« on: October 28, 2018, 03:33:17 PM »
They are significantly bigger than what I have.

Walt very interesting about your greenhouse. What were the dimensions and orientation to the sun? What was the glazing? There was another guy in Kansas who did something similar.

Thanks for the link.
My greenhouse was a 20 ft. square.  That's a bit more than 6m. per side.  It was dug into a south-facing side of a valley.  The walls were railroad ties I got 4 for $1, from a railroad that had been abandonded.  Top was 4 ft. by 8 ft sheets of glass from an abandonded solar heater for a school gym, delivered free.
I couldn't afford to build a greenhouse like that using new materials, then or now.

My P. trifoliata are in a field fully exposed to wind and everything.  They have taken -5 F every winter for 5 winters.  I don't have my calculater along, but that is colder than -10 C.  I don't think cold will be a problem with established plants.
My way has been to buy fruit at Hong's Landscape in Wichita, Kansas.  His 2 trees are over 15 years old, and Mr. Hong doesn't remember where he got them and doesn't have  any information on which variety he has.
So I harvest the seeds and put about 25 in a 1 gallon pot and let them grow inside for their first winter.  By spring, the 4 or 5 month old seedlings are planted where they are to grow and tended like tomato plants until mid August to get as much growth on them as possible.  In mid August, I quit feeding them and reduce water to harden them for winter.  During winter I water a little if it hasn't rained or snowed for a month.  I dought you need to water.
There may be better ways to do it, but this has worked for me.  Once established, they are tough plants.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: October 18, 2018, 04:55:28 PM »
I see that citrusman99 is offering fruit of US852.  I've ordered 14 of the fruit.  US 852 is said to have maybe 50% zygotic seeds.  That means I will have at least 280 seeds, over 100 zygotic.  T
his puts me a generation ahead of where I was this morning.
I'm still getting a tree of US 852 for crossing with mandarin and with trifoliate orange.  I'm wanting to see the variation in the 3 populations, the F2 and both backcrosses.
Isn't citrus breeding fun?    Actually, I am one of the few who think so.  But as Shakespear said, "We few.  We happy few."

I'm in northern zone 6.  I'm also in a rather dry area, central Kansas. 
Under my conditions, P. trifoliata is completely winter hardy if it doesn't dry out.  I wouldn't even try fall planting trifoliata.  I don't even fall plant apples and plums as they would also need water their first winter.  If spring planted, the same trees will only need winter irrigation in a very dry area like mine.  The next winter they will likely have their roots down enough to find water.
But last spring, I had to transplant some 4 year old trifoliates.  They had an extremely shallow root system.  I think drying out of seedlings is more likely to kill them than the cold.
But it doesn't really matter what it is that kills them.  Spring plant like Laaz said.

Florian.  P. trifoliata does OK in Nebraska, zone 5.  I don't know if those are in sheltered locations or anything else about them.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: October 18, 2018, 01:23:46 PM »
Link might be spam, but I have dealt with Mr. Dyson at that address with good results.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: October 15, 2018, 12:53:38 PM »
Ilya.  All I want to harvest from precocious Pt is pollen.  And I'm willing to wait if I must.  I want to see if the gene(s) have different  effects in different backgrounds.  Cutting even one year per generation would be of value.
Mikkel.  I'm keeping my Flying Dragon because it makes some zygotic seeds.  I haven't read reports saying whether or not precocious does that.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: October 13, 2018, 12:47:13 PM »
Unless I missed it, there haven't been any posts saying, "Yes, I've made crosses using precocious Poncirus."  Well, I haven't either.  But next spring I expect to be making some.  I know that the trait is recessive, so I don't expect different results in the F1 than if I use regular Poncirus.  But I'm looking toward the F2 and beyond.  In those generations, I'm expecting big differences in generation time.  I'll be crossing, I hope, with finger lime and kumquat as I hope they will be blooming then.  It is possible, but not likely, that I'll have mandarines in blloom next year.  If so, they will also be crossed.  Just as I hope my precocious Poncirus will be blooming.  I have aquired some precocious Poncirus from several sources, All trace back to Laaz's precocious.

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: September 30, 2018, 03:34:45 PM »
Will these seeds be zygotic, nuceller, or mixed?

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / citquats
« on: September 30, 2018, 03:31:49 PM »
Does anyone have, or will have later in the fall, seeds from citquats?

Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Aust. Bloodlime seedlings.
« on: September 29, 2018, 12:56:36 PM »
How would you want payment?  Paypal OK?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Root Stock?
« on: September 12, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »
I prefer seed grown, non-transplanted, roots for apples a plums, because they have tap roots.  Is this an issue for citrus?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Rooting Root Stock?
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:47:50 PM »
I see you are in Georgia, where I expect humidity is high.  High compared to mine at least.  I would need the dome, or up-side-down aquarium, in my case.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Latest Video From Dan Willey The Fruitmentor
« on: September 11, 2018, 12:44:37 PM »
My seedlings don't grow near that fast.
Good video.

I will be pollinating every time I have a flower.  I might as well keep track and report back, someday.
I'll google and try to see if someone has published such stuff.

Has anyone checked whether there are other things, like temperature, the change the percent of zygotic seedlings?  Temperature seems to change the percent of successes in interspecific wheat crosses, and also sunflowers.  This is a whole different thing, of course.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: finger lime
« on: September 07, 2018, 01:22:54 PM »
How was the KNO3 applied?

This is something for me to pay attention to.  I'll be making many crosses, and I will of course try to use seed parents with a high percent zygotic seedlings.  But now I'll be paying attention to pollen parent too, and see which ones give higher percent zygotic seedlings.  It may not make any difference, but it won't be extra work to keep track.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Natural pest control
« on: September 04, 2018, 01:16:26 PM »
Looks like the toad is guarding his tree.

Granddad said a barn isn't worth having if barn swallows don't nest in it.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: August 21, 2018, 03:27:54 PM »
My plans are to aim at growing 200 per generation.  They will spend their first summer outside, in pots, then their first winter in the greenhouse.  Outside again for their second summer, then back into the greenhouse, but take cuttings which will be labeled, then packed in moist sawdust, then put in a freezer set at a temperature to be determined later, but the temperature chosen to kill some but not all of the cuttings.  Then the cuttings will be grafted back onto their origional plants to see if they survived.  Or perhaps I'll try to root the cuttings, or maybe I'll learn to identify freeze damage just by look or feel.  I am open to everyone's ideas.  Most of you have much more experience than me.
I do see problems with my plan.  Weather before taking the cuttings will determine degree of hardening off.  And different genotypes will respond differently to the hardening off.  I'm studying work done in apple breeding for ways to select for winter hardiness.  Again your ideas are welcome.

I will also be selecting for % zygotic seeds, precocity, and flavor, so I plan to keep most of the seedlings to bloom, or at least for a few years and then dump those that haven't bloomed.
I expect to build an additional greenhouse each year for 4 years.  I expect to start a new crop of seeds each year, 200 per year. 
Now, if my breeding stock would just bloom already.

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