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Messages - Walt

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Actually I'm looking into forming an LLC to inherit the ground and plants and all rights to them.  My 2 children will be members of board of directers, to help see my plans continue.  But I will need directers who are deeply committed to citrus growing and breeding.  Anyone can PM me if interested.  Or I guess you could write me here.  I'm not trying to hide anything.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 15, 2019, 04:17:11 PM »
Eyecker also sent 15 Taitri fruit.  Only the best 3 were worthy of making lemonade.  But the 15 fruit contained 500 seeds which are planted.  I hadn't planned to breed lemons, but they are this really big group of F2 seeds to come along.  It will be a chance to look at a big F2 population, unless they are mostly nucelar.  I tend to get ahead of myself.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 15, 2019, 04:10:38 PM »
Stan sent me some US 852 fruit.  As I reported back then, they were much too sour, but the juice was OK diluted with water and sweetened.
Eyecker sent me a (clem x trifoliate) x clem fruit.  It was much better, more sour than I like, but not bad.
So now I've tasted a half mandarine half trifoliate, and 3/4 mandarin, 1/4 trifoliate.  I've tasted only one variety of each type.  Truely this is a sample size too small to mean much.  But in my mind I'm extrapolating anyway.  Very encouraging.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 14, 2019, 04:19:41 PM »
Keep us up to date about this cross.  I am excited to know it exists now.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:17 PM »
I still have lots to learn. 
Today there is a thread started on brix of citrus.  Brix and pH are 2 things I'll need to be measuring on many fruit.  I knew that, and the brix thread tells how.  Good.  It also warns that brix varies depending on side of tree, which end of the fruit, and more.
And I've learned in the last few days that when a seed has 2 or more seedlings, they may germinate more than 2 weeks apart.  So some of what I thought were monoembryonic aren't.
But I'm not discouraged.  I've wanted to do this for 30 years.  I'm going to stick to it.
I'm very grateful for all I've learned on this forum, and the previous forum.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 26, 2018, 03:29:48 PM »
I've past 40 seedlings from US 852.  Only 3 have been polyembryonic.  From what I read, only about 20 of them should be zygotic.  I'm starting to wonder if all the monozygotic seeds are really zygotic.  Hadyvermont PMed me saying he doubted if all monozygotic seeds are zygotic.  I argued against him, though I was also starting to think the same.  I was arguing mostly put together my best argument and convince myself.
I'm pretty sure I'm geting at least some zygotic seedlings.  Some are unifoliate.  Some have lobed, mitten-shaped leaves.  Some are trifoliate, but the 2 outer leaflets are tiny and hard to see.  Some look like US 852, but might segregate for other traits than leaf shape if I let them mature. 
None are being discarded.  They are too young to be sure of anything yet.  None have more than 7 leaves,  Some are still coming through the ground.  But I'm thinking I might have to find a better way to be sure which are zygotic.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 13, 2018, 01:45:52 PM »
I have 29 Us 852 Zygotic seedling growing.  3 are new today. 2 were new yesterday, so they are still sprouting.  So far only 2 have been polyembryonic.  I should have 200 zygotic seedlings by now, but a move and cold got in the way.
Most are still too small to tell if they are trifoliate or unifoliate.  (monofoliate?  I never know when to use poly or multi and mono or uni.  I don't learn like when I was younger.)  I find that they have to have 4 or 5 leaves before I can tell if those little leaves are single or not.  And then I know from reading this forum that different leaves on the same plant can be trifoliate and unifoliate.
I'm only interested it leaf type to see the first sign of segregation.  I don't really care if my results have trifoliate leaves or not.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 03, 2018, 03:09:41 PM »
I've read that online, in discussions on tomatoes, etc.  I'm wondering if it works on trees.  Mostly I'm wondering about citrus trees, of course.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: December 03, 2018, 12:01:01 PM »
A third seed is germinated this morning.  It has at least 2 seedlings coming from it.  So some are monoembryonic, some are multiembryonic.  Sample size of 3 gives no real statistical information.  But at least I know some are monoembryonic and some aren't.  I have 19 of these planted.  I expect more will germinate.  Every one will give a little more information about percent monoembryonic.
I'll have to sort them and keep track of which are which.
And someone recently posted that percent monoembryonic is influenced by pollen parent.  I expect temperature during growth of seeds before harvest might also influence it.  So much to learn.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 02, 2018, 03:29:08 PM »
Ilya.  Thanks for info on Android lux meter level,  I'll have to get that.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 02, 2018, 03:23:19 PM »
True.  The Agricultural Research Station at Woodward, Oklaholma, USA has their "greenhouse" in their basement, as lighting is cheaper than heating.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Indoor Citrus planter
« on: December 01, 2018, 04:11:13 PM »
Good for you.
I was in Low's a couple of days ago, and I saw that LED grow lights were selling for $27 for a foot long strip, that when I got home, I found it was extremely bright.  And the red and blue is suposed to be used much better than the full spectrum lights.
This is not an ad for Low's.  I'm sure that if I had shopped online, I could have found it cheaper.  Just saying prices have come down since I had last shopped for LED grow lights.  You might think about adding some.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: December 01, 2018, 03:57:21 PM »
Ilya.  Thanks for the advice.  I have plenty of 3 to 5 year old in pots P. trifoliatas available for roots stocks.  And today I have 5 more US 852 seedlings than yesterday.  They seem to have started germinating for real.  They are small, but someone recently posted a link to a Youtube lesson on micrografting.  Looks like micrografts could be made without sacrificing the seedlings, I mean, I could use the same seedling to graft onto several US 852 seedlings, just in case my first micrografts don't work.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 30, 2018, 03:24:36 PM »
N1triVos F2 seedlings started coming up on Thanksgiving.  Now, just 8 days later, the largest is 10 cm. tall, with 9 leaves.  The second largest is 8 1/2 cm., with 7 leaves, but its leaves are wider, so it has more leaf area.  I can already see segregation for some traits, but not the ones that matter.  Seedlings number 5 and 6 came up overnight.  I expect more will come up.
The N1triVos seedlings are next to a pot of finger lime seedling.  Finger limes are about 6 weeks old, I think, and in good health.  But they are less than 1/2 as tall as the tallest N1triVos F2 seedlings.  The finger limes have more leaves, but less leaf area.
Precocity in apples is best measured by counting leaves to first flowers.  I mean when comparing populations not growing in near identical conditions.  So I am counting and recording number of leaves as a measure of precocity, hoping I'll find it is true with citrus.  But I am seeing differences in days of growth between nodes, so I have my doubts.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 30, 2018, 03:04:19 PM »
I started planting seeds of US852 about November 1 or 2.  First 2 seedling showed this morning, Nov 30.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: November 28, 2018, 01:06:06 PM »
I have some precocious P.t seeds from Laaz germinating.  The first 2 seedling are single, so I guess they are from monozygotic seeds, and maybe therefore zygotic.
A couple of years ago, I got seeds  of precocious P.t from Alan Bishop.  From 10 seeds, I got about 8 seedling.  Though I didn't notice whether they were each from different seeds, the numbers suggest they might have been.
So, has anyone noticed whether Laas's precocious P.t breeds true even when crossed?  If not, I'll be using it as seed parent as well as pollen parent.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter care of citranges, etc.
« on: November 24, 2018, 12:04:01 PM »
Yes, my citranges have always wintered indoors, or in an unheated leanto greenhouse on the south side of my house.  There they had mild freezes but remained green and presumably growing some.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 20, 2018, 11:51:18 AM »
Riverside says that they have 2 F. hindsii that were both recieved with information that they were tetraploids, but that chromosome counts showed both were diploids.
And now I've told you everything I know about F. hindsii.  It didn't take long, did it?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 19, 2018, 01:13:22 PM »
Ilya, or anybody.  Has any good come from F. hindsii hybrids?  I'm thinking of using it to improve precocity.  But as a fruit, it gets very poor rating, (0).

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Winter care of citranges, etc.
« on: November 17, 2018, 12:44:41 PM »
If your basement have temperature of less than +10C you do not need lights for overwintering.

I think that is my solution for this winter.
But after that. I want year-round growth on my citrus.  Time is wasting.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Winter care of citranges, etc.
« on: November 16, 2018, 12:32:31 PM »
As it says in Game of Thrones, "Winter is coming."
Actually, winter weather is already here, and it will stay a while.
So, how do more experienced people care for their citranges, citandarins, and citstuff that you are overwintering.
I know some of you live where they won't even drop their leaves and require no care over the winter.
Some of you live where they do drop their leaves, but require no special care over the winter.
But mine must come inside or they will never make it to spring.
I left mine outside until they dropped their leaves, then brought them into a cold basement.  I have lights on them, but not enough to do any good.
In the past I kept them in an unheated greenhouse, where the got some light freezes, but never lost their leaves,  But the greenhouse burned.  California isn't the only place with wildfires, through my fire was nothing like theirs.
I had hoped to have a new greenhouse by now, but it will be another couple of months at least.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 16, 2018, 12:18:54 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  More would be welcome. 
With over 200 seeds, I could get by using the method I said I planned to use.  But I have no idea what percent will germinate, nor what percent  will be zygotic.  So I might use these additional ways of screening for zygotics.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: November 15, 2018, 04:08:31 PM »
I have been asked how I'll know which seedlings of US852 are zygotic and which are nucellar.
I noted that Ilya tested the leaves for the poncirus smell.  That's a start.  But I'll also be watching as they germinate. 
I assume seeds that send up single seedlings will be mostly zygotic.  Seeds that send up 2 or more seedlings will be mostly nucellar and will be discarded.  Does that sound right?
I used the word mostly because I read that one citrus variety gives mostly nucellar seedlings in spite of having a single seedling per seed.  And I've read that a seed can have one zygotic seedling plus one or more nucellar seedlings.  But I expect that out of a few hundred seeds, I can save mostly zygotic seedlings by this method.  And that's good enough.

I have used a greenhouse dug into a hillside, which never froze in northern zone 6.  But one year a blizzard piled a meter of snow on it and the roof fell in.
I used a greenhouse for 4 or 5 years with shutters of 2" styrofoam which were cranked up in the morning when good weather was predicted.  They were cranked back down nights.  As backup. that greenhouse had a wood stove which we kept filled and ready to light.  There was a thermostat hooked to an alarm.  The thermostat was set just above freezing.  If the alarm went off, someone had to get up and go light it.  It was a lot of daily work, cranking the shutters up and down, and having wood ready all the time.  But it was really cheap. and in those days cheap was very important to us.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: What kind of citrus is this?
« on: November 03, 2018, 04:09:17 PM »
What Citrange reported above says that genes for not liking trifoliate orange is common, it is not universal. 
More to the point, I'm trying to use trifoliate oranges to get more winter hardy citrus that taste good.  I might end up developing hardier citrus that taste good to a small group of people, but not for most people.

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