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Messages - Walt

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Ilya. Very interesting and impressive results. While the percentage of survivors is low,  any at all is success.  Congratulations!

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu Ichang Papeda cross
« on: November 09, 2020, 01:05:58 PM »
Seedless Kishu mandarin is pollen fertile and 50% of its seedlings are seedless.  This is not from my own experience, but is from an online journal paper.

My 2 foot tall finger lime bloomed this summer and set fruit.  They are still very small.  I don't know if they will stay on the tree.
The only only other citrus in bloom at the time was a kumquat which was next to it.  Both set fruit, but I expect the kumquat self pollinated.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Kumquat x Poncirus
« on: October 12, 2020, 01:06:20 PM »
I'm always glad to learn about someone growing Poncirus hybrids.  Please do keep us informed of results.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: September 24, 2020, 03:48:43 PM »
US 1279, US 1281, and US 1282 came from Brite Leaf nursery.  It is in Florida, but it has strict quarentine in place and is allowed to ship outside Florida.  They do not sell these as varieties, but they trialed them as rootstocks.  I bought a Satsuma and 2Valencias just for their roots.
I was very happy when they arrived today.  The plants are about 1 meter tall, from the ground level.  They look extremely healthy.  And 2 of them are showing sprouts from the rootstocks, which is good for my use.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Long term cold hardy citrus breeding project
« on: September 24, 2020, 03:40:46 PM »
I've spent a great deal of time this summer trying to get the citandarins US 1279, Us1281, and US 1282.  These are relatively unrelated citandarins, each with lmore than 95% zygotic seedlings.  Together with US 852, these are enough variation that I don't need to worry about inbreeding

Other unrelated breeding material I have are;
Seedless Kishu mandarin, with a dominant gene for seedless.
Citrus medica, which is reported as quite precocious and zygotic.
Finger lime, which I've read mixed reports as being precocious.  All zygotic.
P. trifoliata+ seedlings.  Unproven as breeders, but should lack the Ponciris taste and be zygotic.

Still to get are;
F, hindsii, Hong Kong kumquat, which I've read is quite precocious, and zygotic.
Laaz's precocious P, trifoliata.  I had it and it died, but I lost a lot of stuff that winter, so I'm not blaming the plants.  It is not zygotic, as far as I know. And it has not produced precocioous seedlings nor grandchildren.  But it hasn't been tested enough for me to be sure it won't produce precocious grandchildren.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Haydite
« on: September 16, 2020, 12:01:29 PM »
I used Haydite when growing bonsai.  Most people think bonsai are grown in a medium such that they grow slowly.  Actually we try to grow them in perfect conditions to better shape them and get some thickness to the trunk.  Depending on the species, they need constant trimming.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: kishu mandarin x poncirus?
« on: September 11, 2020, 11:43:01 AM »
I have aquired seedless Kishu with the intent to cross the seedless trait into my breeding population.  So obviously I think it is a good idea.  Let us know how it goes.  Given that you are in zone 7, you might get seedless citandarins in the F2 that are hardy in your zone.  All the citandarins I'm tasted have been very sour, but I liked the juice with water and stevia extract to sweeten it.   Keep us up to date on your work.
I have tasted Clem tri clem (Cementine x trifoliate) x Clementine.  It was sour too.  But I've read that Dr. Brown had some 3/4 mandarins that were good.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus in bloom
« on: September 04, 2020, 12:06:26 PM »
This summer I saw a kumquat with buds on it.  The plant was in a garden shop attached to a hardware store.  It had no name but the tree looked healthy and the price was good.  So I bought it.  It is now blooming, more than when I bought.  And fruit are very small but growing.
The finger lime I bought last year is finally blooming.  30 blooms yesterday.  More today.  Anyone have some Ponciris pollen?  Probably not.  Next year maybe I'll make the cross.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Any cold hardy citrus?
« on: August 26, 2020, 12:41:04 PM »
I'm in Zone 6, very near zone 5.  I have had several Ponciris trees outside in the ground for about 7 years, with new ones added most years since then.
I started with seeds from 2 trees which are seedlings brought from Korea maybe 50 years ago.  The owner isn't sure of the year.  I have used this source and other sources for later planting.  Those second generation from Korea seed have generally survived.  It seems to depend on how bad the first winter is.  If they make it through the first winter, they'll mostly be OK later.
Precocious seedlings from Laaz all died.  They were smaller than most going into the winter.  I'll be trying again before I blame the seed.
A seedling from died for me during the same year seedlings from Laaz's seeds died.  The mother trees for oikostreecrops are growing in Michigan, so I think they might have survived here if they had been grown better before planting out.
I do get twig dieback most years.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Covid
« on: August 11, 2020, 01:06:19 PM »
Keep us informed about your situatiom.  We wish you a speedy recovery.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Maypops (in zone 6a/5)?
« on: August 03, 2020, 12:47:23 PM »
I am in Ellsworth, Kansas.  This is northern zone 6, very near zone 5.  It grows fine here.  I get a few fruit most years.  I think I have only on plant, though I got it from a neighbor and it might have been 2 or more plants.  It had grown under a 1.5 m sidewalk and was taking over his yard.
A couple of years ago, I gave my daughter in Kansas City MO a start.  Hers is also doing fine.
If it doesn't live for you in zone 5, don't blame the cold.  It could be drainage or something else.
I read reports on other forums that maypops do well in zone 5.

Large fruit and precocious.  I ordered one immediately. What I got was a graft, not a seedling.  It was in a 2 inch, 5cm, pot.  And the plant was 18 inches tall. 42 cm?   I've never seen such a big plant in such a small pot.  But it seems quite healthy.
What I read is that C. medica seed is zygotic.

Making a cut above a bud can make the bud just below the cut start growing.  But that wouldn't work on mature wood where dormant buds can't be seen.  It might help a bud grafted onto mature wood. 
And there is thread grafting.  Drill a hole in the trunk and poke a limber twig, still attatched to the tree. through until it fits snugly.  The  twig grows wider and makes the graft. Then twig is cut between the trunk and the limb the twig origionally grew on.  Bonsai growers use thread grafts to put branches exactly where they want them.
Youtube has many demonstrations of thread grafting.

When I moved to a rural area about 20 years ago. first thing I did was dig 6m x 6m hole into a souyh facing hill.  I lined it with used railroad ties and used recycled glass to make a roof.  A cheap greenhouse.  And I lived in it that summer.  At night I would look up at the moon and stars.  I wish I was still living there.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: How to keep citrus seedlings growing
« on: March 04, 2020, 12:38:36 PM »
About 40 years ago I got a speck of perlite in my eye.  It was dust from the newly opened bag.  It was very painful, think of broken glass in your eye.  I had to go to an eye doctor to have the speck removed.  I've never tried it again.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best way to root calamondins?
« on: February 26, 2020, 04:14:46 PM »
You've heard of Kanopolis?  My garden/orchard is across a fence from farm land on both sides.  Right now both fields are being used for hay with no spraying.  But any time one or both farmers could change to other crops and spray herbicides and/or insecticides which might blow onto my land.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best way to root calamondins?
« on: February 25, 2020, 12:58:57 PM »
Adjusted for age, cancer was more common in the 1950s, when pollution of all kinds was more common.  I'm speaking of the USA.  This would be different in other parts of the world.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 04:36:04 PM »
Do you still have any of the hybrids?  Have you tried growing an F2 population or backcrossing to the precocious trifoliate?
If the hybrids still exist, I am interested in scions and/or seeds.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 12:08:13 PM »
Ilya.  Mostly Laaz precocious is used as a pollen parent, as it is not reported to give zygotic seedlings.  I found that some seeds from Laaz were monozygotic, 2 out of 3.  So it might give some zygotic seedlings.  Until we have data, all that can be said for sure is that as a pollen parent, it doesn't give precocious seedlings.  I EXPECT the same would be true as seed parent if it gives hybrid seedlings at all.  But for now, I have seen no reports of it giving hybrid seedlings.
If anyone does have such experience, or has seen published reports, please post them.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 29, 2020, 11:59:34 AM »
n the Laaz case, if I understand correctly, his first precocious tree was a chance seedling.  It is not likely that such a case was due to more than a couple genes.  Single gene is most likely.  It is not dominant, if I am to believe everything in this discussion, which I do.  So single recessive gene still seems most likely to me.
So why hasn't anybody taken it to the F2?  Lack of time and space, I guess.  And lack of enough people interested in doing citrus breeding.  I'm not the only one here interested in doing citrus breeding.  I think there are 10 or more, but mostly small scale.  And only 4 trying on a large scale, that I know of, but there might be several quiet ones too.
And of course, citrus breeding runs into seedlings mostly being nucellar in most crosses.  But those interested in breeding know about that, and how to get around it.

I'll be 70 in March, so I'm very interested in shortening generation time.  I want to squeeze in 10 more generations of citrus breeding.  More would be better.
My mother lacked 2 weeks of living 100 years, so I may get 10 generations yet.  But no one knows if they will live til sundown.  We take what we get and make the most of it.
I had a good friend, an iris breeder after he retired, who planted his last seeds at the age of 101.  He never lived to see them bloom, but he had seen several generations of his iris seedlings bloom.  No regrets.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: January 28, 2020, 12:44:45 PM »
So a year is passed since anyone commented on Citrus x Laaz's Precocious Pt.  Did anyone try the cross?  I didn't have any flowers to work with.  Maybe this year.  I hope.
If anyone wants to make the cross but doesn't have room to grow out the seedlings, I can make room and return any seedlings back to you, with only a little scion buds for my work.
I don't know whether I'll have flowers of my own to work on this spring.  Maybe.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 24, 2020, 11:56:12 AM »
I'm glad to hear reports on progress, and serious attempts to progress in winter hardiness in citrus.
 haven't put out any F2 plants this year.  Rather I plan to graft lots of F2 seedlings on Ponciris in spring, in hopes they will survive next winter.
And I plan to grow many F2 plants to fruiting, even if the part grafted and grown outside doesn't survive next winter.  I want to know how sugar, acid, and resin segregate.  And I want to learn to test for survival at various temperatures.
If some  segentranges were reliable in zone 7, some of their seedlings might give a much better percentage of zone 6 survivers.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: January 23, 2020, 01:31:49 PM »
Again, very interesting and very informative.

"If I manage to graft these clones to one older trifoliate in spring, they will grow on the same rootstock, under the same climatic conditions, and have the same irrigation and fertilization. Then I will be able to provide more accurate information and confirm whether the actual differences in taste are genetically determined or have been influenced by growing conditions."

The quote above shows that more, better, information may come later.  But even grafted on the same tree, there will be environmental differences.  As has been mentioned on this forum before, fruit from the north side of a tree will be different from fruit from the south side of the tree.  And the link itself mentions that there are differences in elevation and other differences where the varieties were grown.
Thanks to all who have added to this thread, and to all who might add more in the future.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: January 21, 2020, 12:48:12 PM »
A lot of useful information here.  Thank you.

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